Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Have a look at the CompileIt! manual again. That was 1990. There was no
special intermediate language to get toolbox rom or native library calls.
LC's choice to engineer LCB the way it did was a choice. It obviously makes
it less approachable to the customer. Maybe it makes it easier for the
team. Unfortunately, what REALLY makes it less approachable to us, as
customers, is all of the work that has to go in to learning it due to the
thin documentation, and how long it takes to debug it because the tools are
not groovy. (Oh, look, a syntax error! What exactly is the error?)
If you have used tmControls (https://github.com/macMikey/tmControl), you
will see that it's more than possible to build beautiful controls with LCS.
In some cases, native interface objects are great, but in a lot of cases,
they are completely overrated (I'm looking at you,flat  iOS button).
In the meantime, for all of you that are interested, please stop over at
the LCB Missing Manual repo on github (
https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual). The wiki is an attempt to
build a real LCB manual. The issues are for all of the things that get you
stuck, so please post. That will help the wiki get better.
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 17/09/2022 08:54, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote:

point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains :
- But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???)

Yes, at first glance it is surprising; typed variables etc. *should* 
make it possible to be more efficient. And I think some day they will.


But for now, I think that isn't, and shouldn't be, a priority for LC Ltd.

The intended uses for LCB are to interface to other libraries/languages, 
and to provide graphic / UI widgets - and performance is not critical to 
either of those roles. If I have a LC app which is suffering 
performance, I should first look at the algorithm, the data structures, 
engine features I might be able to use, , separate process, ...


And if none of them fix it for me, then I'm probably going to want a 
high-performance library in some other language (C, C++, even NumPY, 
whatever) which allows it to be highly optimized.


My new slogan :

If I'm suffering for performance, I don't want a 10% improvement from 
LCB, I want a 10x improvement from C.


Alex.


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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Jacques Clavel via use-livecode]

point 6. maybe potential for future performance gains :
- But today LCB is surprisingly less efficient (/3) than LCS (???)

JC

Le sam. 17 sept. 2022 à 01:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> a écrit :

>
> On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> > Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best
> additions to
> > LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation
> and
> > more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC
> to
> > penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started...
>
> I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the
> biggest missed opportunity.
>
> The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be
> one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the
> two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive
> observer like me, a missed chance.
>
> Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things):
>
> 1. naming + distribution + installation schemes.
>
> 2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors,
> editors)
>
> 3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas
>
> 4. typed variables
>
> 5. access to foreign languages / libraries.
>
> 6. maybe potential for future performance gains.
>
>
> But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have
> been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2)
> are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done
> for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to
> provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas.
>
> Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD)
> look like they could have been done easily using LCS.
>
> I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some
> future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000
> widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for
> the average LS Scripter.
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Jacques Clavel
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 15/09/2022 16:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:

Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to
LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and
more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to
penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started...


I so much want to agree - but unfortunately it looks to me more like the 
biggest missed opportunity.


The combination of widgets and LCB is a powerful one (and may indeed be 
one of the best additions). But I think if you unpick and pull apart the 
two parts (widget vs LCB) then there is what looks, to the naive 
observer like me, a missed chance.


Widgets + LCB gives us (amongst other things):

1. naming + distribution + installation schemes.

2. integration with the docs / dictionary and IDE tools (inspectors, 
editors)


3. efficient "direct" drawing to canvas

4. typed variables

5. access to foreign languages / libraries.

6. maybe potential for future performance gains.


But of those, only the last two *require* LCB; the others *could* have 
been done in a way that allows LCScript authors to benefit. (1) and (2) 
are clearly feasible for LCS almost without change from what's been done 
for LCB widgets, and I have to believe it would have been possible to 
provide LCS commands and functions to manipulate the canvas.


Given those three things, many of the widgets (e.g. rotatedtext, navRAD) 
look like they could have been done easily using LCS.


I still hold on to the hope that this will become a feature in some 
future release. And when (if) it ever does, then maybe we will see "1000 
widgets by Christmas" because it will be so much more approachable for 
the average LS Scripter.


Alex.




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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

By the way, we updated it, again, this morning, because, we're like little
kids now that we're starting to crack the code on this thing. It's nothing
too exciting, today, but it's better than it was, yesterday, including
fixing the copyright header - which was my error.
Here's what happened on the copyright: originally Ralph was working on this
widget and I was working on it, separately. His version had the OSS
copyright text on it (correct). I was intending to just throw the updates
at LC and say "Here", so I grabbed the later copyright header to make
merging it easier. The code of the widget is exactly the same between the
OSS version and the one that's in the newer bundles.
Now, I'm more inclined to do it "the right way", so, this morning's version
has the original, technically correct, OSS header.
That header says
Copyright (C) 2015-2016 LiveCode Ltd.

This file is part of LiveCode.

LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under
the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free
Software Foundation.

LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY
WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License
for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with LiveCode.  If not see .
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

Sorry, I confused things by using the word "outdated". I wasn't 
referring to the date in the copyright statement, but to the fact that 
it says "Livecode is free software [...  GPL]", and "this file is part 
of Livecode", and implications that may have on the license situation 
for the widget and anyone who uses it in an app.


Alex.


On 16/09/2022 01:19, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost 
everyone adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my 
clients out of it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating 
the copyright string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the 
app looks old and unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that 
updates the end date to the current year on launch so I don't have to 
worry about it.


A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator 
plus (in the US) 75 years.


Oh well.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
 wrote:



On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget.
Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two 
nifty

updates to it:


I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I
think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become
open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ?

Currently it says


  Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon

  This file is part of LiveCode.

  LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under
  the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the 
Free

  Software Foundation.

  LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY
  WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or
  FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License
  for more details.

  You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
  along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */


Alex.




Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon



This file is part of LiveCode.



LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under

the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by 
the Free


Software Foundation.



LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY

WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or

FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public 
License


for more details.



You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License

along with LiveCode. If not see . */



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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Legally the only date that matters is the date of creation. Almost everyone 
adds the current date as well, and I keep trying to talk my clients out of 
it but they won't listen. Then I have to keep updating the copyright 
string, knowing it doesn't matter, but if I don't the app looks old and 
unsupported. Some time back I wrote a handler that updates the end date to 
the current year on launch so I don't have to worry about it.


A single copyright creation date is valid for the life of the creator plus 
(in the US) 75 years.


Oh well.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 15, 2022 5:12:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
 wrote:



On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget.
Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty
updates to it:


I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I
think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become
open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ?

Currently it says


  Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon

  This file is part of LiveCode.

  LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under
  the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free
  Software Foundation.

  LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY
  WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or
  FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License
  for more details.

  You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
  along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */


Alex.




Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon



This file is part of LiveCode.



LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under

the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free

Software Foundation.



LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY

WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or

FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License

for more details.



You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License

along with LiveCode. If not see . */



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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 15/09/2022 15:44, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget.
Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty
updates to it:


I see the code has an outdated copyright statement, which would (I 
think) currently mean that any app using it would (potentially) become 
open-source (GPL). If that;s not the intent, maybe it could be updated ?


Currently it says


  Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon

  This file is part of LiveCode.

  LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it 
under

  the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free
  Software Foundation.

  LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but 
WITHOUT ANY

  WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or
  FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License
  for more details.

  You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
  along with LiveCode.  If not see .  */


Alex.




Copyright (C) 2015-2022 LiveCode Ltd.icon



This file is part of LiveCode.



	LiveCode is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it 
under


the terms of the GNU General Public License v3 as published by the Free

Software Foundation.



	LiveCode is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but 
WITHOUT ANY


WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or

FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License

for more details.



You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License

along with LiveCode. If not see . */



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RE: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Docs aside... I still think that widgets and lcb is one of best additions to
LC. Community collaboration like this will make for better documentation and
more new/improved widgets. A robust library of widgets can only help LC to
penetrate the market. If only we had these when I started...

Shout out to Mike K. for all the help!

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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RE: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Also another new feature is the Icon Fill property. If enabled: 1)If there
is no label the icon is enlarged slightly and centered vertically 2) In the
PI the label can be deleted without the "New Item" inserted into the label.
I did this because among others the social media icons don't need labels.

All new features are fully documented.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 10:45 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mike Kerner
Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget.
Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty
updates to it:
* an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected
icon changes instead of after, and
* icon zoom
Now it's also got margins.
https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

What's NavRAD? It's a better version of LiveCode's NavBar widget.
Why "RAD"? Cos Ralph A DiMola said so, since he added the first two nifty
updates to it:
* an autoHilite boolean, so you can intercept clicks before the selected
icon changes instead of after, and
* icon zoom
Now it's also got margins.
https://github.com/macMikey/LC-NavRad
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I emailed this privately to Brian, but I'll include it here for
everyone, too.
The versions of the LCB manuals that are on LC's website (at least the ones
that I was able to find), are dated. The versions that are included
embedded in LC are much more complete (though still missing things). Until
I was putting the wiki together, I didn't realize they were different. So,
until LC updates the version on the site, use the version that's embedded
in LC itself.
Anyway, Brian, it would be good to either have a "gotchas" page or another
wiki pages about aliased properties having to be defined before they are
aliased.
I think it would be good to add examples to the wiki as well, to make it
easier for more people to approach LCB, faster.


On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 9:48 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I guess I never answered the original question:
>
> The editor type isn't a LCB thing.  Those are a part of the IDE.  Here is
> the path from the open source repository:
> .../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/
> You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC.
> /Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc
> 1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/
> I agree that they should be documented somewhere.  Looking at the names
> there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident.
>
> The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4
> entries needed to use many of the PI editors.  There is one in a widget
> that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed
> in the PI but is available to get/set.  "options" looks to be specific to
> the "enum" editor.
>
> The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as
> a whole.  It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets
> that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon,
> preferredsize, userVisible, _ide).
>
> I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I
> don't know the syntax well enough to write it.  So I didn't really read the
> documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as
> needed), but read the widgets that I was working on.  As such, the things
> you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts.  I was
> mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model
> when adding things (properties and handlers).  About the only thing that
> really tripped me up was aliased properties.  You have to define the main
> property and then alias works.  If you define the alias, then it doesn't
> work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll).  Considering all of this, I
> consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation
> for LCB.
>
> I'll add some comments to your "issues"
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I was about to call you out, too, Brian.
> > I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into
> > things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do
> with
> > my time.
> > Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole,
> > especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get
> > back into it.
> > If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff
> > using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC
> > > widgets.  There is plenty of example code there but you just have to
> > spend
> > > time understanding what you are reading.
> > >
> > > Brian Milby
> > > br...@milby7.com
> > >
> > > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I
> kept
> > > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own
> > benefit, i
> > > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks
> > > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these.
> > > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki
> > > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues
>

Re: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

I guess I never answered the original question:

The editor type isn't a LCB thing.  Those are a part of the IDE.  Here is
the path from the open source repository:
.../livecode/ide/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/
You should also be able to find them in your local install of LC.
/Applications/LiveCode/LiveCode 9.6.9 (rc
1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/inspector/editors/
I agree that they should be documented somewhere.  Looking at the names
there, most that you would use are probably fairly evident.

The LiveCode Builder Style Guide/Widget specific guidelines covers the 4
entries needed to use many of the PI editors.  There is one in a widget
that could be useful though "user_visible" - this property is not displayed
in the PI but is available to get/set.  "options" looks to be specific to
the "enum" editor.

The Extending Livecode Guide covers the 4 that are needed for the widget as
a whole.  It does look like there are a few additional ones used in widgets
that are not mentioned that should be included in the docs (os, svgicon,
preferredsize, userVisible, _ide).

I tend to be fairly adept at reading and understanding code - even if I
don't know the syntax well enough to write it.  So I didn't really read the
documentation to learn LCB (but referenced the syntax and style guide as
needed), but read the widgets that I was working on.  As such, the things
you are having difficulty finding didn't really impact my efforts.  I was
mainly extending the widget and was just copying existing code as a model
when adding things (properties and handlers).  About the only thing that
really tripped me up was aliased properties.  You have to define the main
property and then alias works.  If you define the alias, then it doesn't
work (TreeView widget - scroll vice vscroll).  Considering all of this, I
consider all of the included LCB source code as part of the documentation
for LCB.

I'll add some comments to your "issues"

Thanks,
Brian


On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I was about to call you out, too, Brian.
> I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into
> things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with
> my time.
> Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole,
> especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get
> back into it.
> If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff
> using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist.
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC
> > widgets.  There is plenty of example code there but you just have to
> spend
> > time understanding what you are reading.
> >
> > Brian Milby
> > br...@milby7.com
> >
> > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept
> > > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own
> benefit, i
> > > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks
> > > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these.
> > > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki
> > > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> > >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file:
> > >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms
> > >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms
> > >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms
> > >>
> > >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as
> close
> > >> to bare metal as we're gonna get.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>  Mark Wieder
> > >>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > On the f

Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I was about to call you out, too, Brian.
I started trying to work with LCB several years ago, kept slamming into
things that weren't documented, and decided I had better things to do with
my time.
Now I'm back at it, but I don't think it should be such a black hole,
especially when I put it down for a couple of months and then want to get
back into it.
If we want other people to take the plunge, and maybe invent cool stuff
using it, something better than what exists, now, should exist.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 3:36 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC
> widgets.  There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend
> time understanding what you are reading.
>
> Brian Milby
> br...@milby7.com
>
> > On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept
> > getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i
> > started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks
> > Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these.
> > The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki
> > The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file:
> >>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms
> >>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms
> >>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms
> >>
> >> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close
> >> to bare metal as we're gonna get.
> >>
> >> --
> >>  Mark Wieder
> >>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Honestly the way I learned the most about LCB was working on the LC widgets.  
There is plenty of example code there but you just have to spend time 
understanding what you are reading.

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept
> getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i
> started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks
> Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these.
> The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki
> The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Did a simple test with 819kb json file:
>>> - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms
>>> - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms
>>> - mergJSON / extension 250 ms
>> 
>> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close
>> to bare metal as we're gonna get.
>> 
>> --
>>  Mark Wieder
>>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I was trying to work on Ralph's improvements on the navBar and I kept
getting bitten by the thin documentation of lcb, so for my own benefit, i
started a wiki and issues list to fill in the blanks
Please help me learn lcb by adding to both of these.
The wiki: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/wiki
The issues: https://github.com/macMikey/LCB-missing-manual/issues


On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 8:42 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> > Did a simple test with 819kb json file:
> > - JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms
> > - PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms
> > - mergJSON / extension 250 ms
>
> That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close
> to bare metal as we're gonna get.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

tell you what: email me what you do, and i'll email you what i do, and then
i'll put it up on the repo, and then you don't have to.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 1:45 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that
> defaults
> to 100 % for all icons just about finished.
>
> I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I
> retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get
> something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache
> bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to
> use it with some clarity?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Mike Kerner
> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>
> Update:
> * Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop
> branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch)
> * Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector
> * on to the next item on the list
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the help, guys.
> > What about this list for a next-up wishlist?:
> > * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected
> > item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them
> > from the PI
> > * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is
> > furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x,
> > which cover parts of the nav bar
> > * icon size selection
> > * support embedding raw svg paths
> > * support new icon picker widget
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day,
> God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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RE: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

I also got rid of the 3 properties. I have a Icon Zoom percent that defaults
to 100 % for all icons just about finished.

I guess I'll have to understand github. I was hoping to avoid it until I
retire. Every time I go to github it's just so confusing just to get
something that's there. It's not intuitive at all. It gives me a headache
bigger than LCB if that's possible. Is there any place that explains how to
use it with some clarity?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:03 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mike Kerner
Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

Update:
* Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop
branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch)
* Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector
* on to the next item on the list

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> Thanks for the help, guys.
> What about this list for a next-up wishlist?:
> * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected 
> item name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them 
> from the PI
> * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is 
> furniture, especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, 
> which cover parts of the nav bar
> * icon size selection
> * support embedding raw svg paths
> * support new icon picker widget
>


--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day,
God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Update:
* Put it on github because I'm starting to tweak it, too (on the develop
branch - Ralph's original version is on the Deploy branch)
* Made several properties invisible in the Properties Inspector
* on to the next item on the list

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 4:54 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> Thanks for the help, guys.
> What about this list for a next-up wishlist?:
> * I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item
> name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI
> * Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture,
> especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover
> parts of the nav bar
> * icon size selection
> * support embedding raw svg paths
> * support new icon picker widget
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Thanks for the help, guys.
What about this list for a next-up wishlist?:
* I think some of the properties in the PI are extraneous: "selected item
name", "pre Hilited item", "pre hilited name", so remove them from the PI
* Add borders/margins or offsets, because on mobile, there is furniture,
especially on the ipad pros, and especially in ipados 16.x, which cover
parts of the nav bar
* icon size selection
* support embedding raw svg paths
* support new icon picker widget
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RE: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

The .lce file is in zip format. Change the extension to .zip to easily examine 
contents.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net



-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 1:47 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Matthias Rebbe
Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to 
the extension folder. 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder.
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My 
>> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette 
>> and in the inclusions pane of the standalone settings.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: Brian Milby
>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>> 
>> You have to use the IDE to install widgets.
>> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right)
>> 
>> Brian Milby
>> br...@milby7.com
>> 
>>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it.
>>> I wonder why.
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner 
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb
>> widgets?
>>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to 
>>>> the heart of the thing.
>>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the 
>>>> source of anything.
>>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you 
>>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < 
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in 
>>>>> the resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their 
>>>>> own.  It has to happen from the LCS side.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian Milby
>>>>> br...@milby7.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is 
>>>>>> in zip
>>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the 
>>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in 
>>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in 
>>>>> comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made 
>>>>> changes. Here is the link to the updated
>>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for taking a look!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are 
>>>>>> generated
>>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes 
>>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes 
>>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to 
>>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent 
>>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the
>> giant headache coming on again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

If you would extract the .lce file, then you could copy the extracted folder to 
the extension folder. 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 09.09.2022 um 19:05 schrieb Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder.
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My
>> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in
>> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: Brian Milby
>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>> 
>> You have to use the IDE to install widgets.
>> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right)
>> 
>> Brian Milby
>> br...@milby7.com
>> 
>>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it.
>>> I wonder why.
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb
>> widgets?
>>>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the
>>>> heart of the thing.
>>>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the
>>>> source of anything.
>>>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you
>>>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in
>>>>> the resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their
>>>>> own.  It has to happen from the LCS side.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian Milby
>>>>> br...@milby7.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in
>>>>>> zip
>>>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the
>>>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in
>>>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments
>>>>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here
>>>>> is the link to the updated
>>>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for taking a look!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are
>>>>>> generated
>>>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes
>>>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes
>>>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to
>>>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent
>>>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the
>> giant headache coming on again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
>>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
>>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner
>>>

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

It needs to install the dictionary entry and the extension itself, and put 
the reference into the tools palette.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 9, 2022 12:06:29 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder.

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My
LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in
the inclusions pane of the standalone settings.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Brian Milby
Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

You have to use the IDE to install widgets.
Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right)

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it.
> I wonder why.
>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb
widgets?
>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the
>> heart of the thing.
>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the
>> source of anything.
>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you
>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in
>>> the resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their
>>> own.  It has to happen from the LCS side.
>>>
>>> Brian Milby
>>> br...@milby7.com
>>>
>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in
>>>> zip
>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the
>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in
>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments
>>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here
>>> is the link to the updated
>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for taking a look!
>>>>
>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are
>>>> generated
>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes
>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes
>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to
>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent
>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the
giant headache coming on again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
>>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner
>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>>>>
>>>> Ralph,
>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
>>>> testing to begin...now.
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the
>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it
navrad.
>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a
>>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Weird. I thought you could just toss it in the extensions folder.

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My
> LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in
> the inclusions pane of the standalone settings.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Brian Milby via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Brian Milby
> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>
> You have to use the IDE to install widgets.
> Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right)
>
> Brian Milby
> br...@milby7.com
>
> > On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it.
> > I wonder why.
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner
> >> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb
> widgets?
> >> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the
> >> heart of the thing.
> >> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the
> >> source of anything.
> >> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you
> >> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in
> >>> the resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their
> >>> own.  It has to happen from the LCS side.
> >>>
> >>> Brian Milby
> >>> br...@milby7.com
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in
> >>>> zip
> >>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the
> >>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in
> >>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments
> >>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here
> >>> is the link to the updated
> >>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for taking a look!
> >>>>
> >>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are
> >>>> generated
> >>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes
> >>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes
> >>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to
> >>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent
> >>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the
> giant headache coming on again.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ralph DiMola
> >>>> IT Director
> >>>> Evergreen Information Services
> >>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >>>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
> >>>> On
> >>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
> >>>> To: How to use LiveCode
> >>>> Cc: Mike Kerner
> >>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
> >>>>
> >>>> Ralph,
> >>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
> >>>> testing to begin...now.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the
> >>>>> navbar widget. I have mad

RE: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Yes, And after the install you will the widget folder in your "My 
LiveCode"==>Extensions folder. It will appear the the tool palette and in the 
inclusions pane of the standalone settings. 

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Brian Milby via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2022 9:54 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Brian Milby
Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

You have to use the IDE to install widgets.
Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right)

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. 
> I wonder why.
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner 
>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets?
>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the 
>> heart of the thing.
>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the 
>> source of anything.
>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you 
>> see an extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
>> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in 
>>> the resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their 
>>> own.  It has to happen from the LCS side.
>>> 
>>> Brian Milby
>>> br...@milby7.com
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in 
>>>> zip
>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the 
>>> lcb file in there. Also when you install it the source will be in 
>>> the extension folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments 
>>> starting with "RAD Change" to show where I have made changes. Here 
>>> is the link to the updated
>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for taking a look!
>>>> 
>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are 
>>>> generated
>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes 
>>> were destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes 
>>> in the lcb file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to 
>>> resize it to the card width with a user setting for height percent 
>>> of card width. But the docs are so scant and confusing I feel the giant 
>>> headache coming on again.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] 
>>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner
>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph,
>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
>>>> testing to begin...now.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the 
>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad.
>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a 
>>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant 
>>>>> headaches. It adds 4 new 
>>>>> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem,
>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated 
>>>>> the documentation so the new properties and message show in the 
>>>>> dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad").
>>>>> One thing I ran into was

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

You have to use the IDE to install widgets.
Tools… Extension Manager… + (icon, top right)

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I
> wonder why.
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets?
>> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart
>> of the thing.
>> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source
>> of anything.
>> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an
>> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
>> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the
>>> resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their own.  It has
>>> to happen from the LCS side.
>>> 
>>> Brian Milby
>>> br...@milby7.com
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip
>>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file
>>> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension
>>> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD
>>> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated
>>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for taking a look!
>>>> 
>>>> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated
>>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were
>>> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb
>>> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card
>>> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs
>>> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>> Cc: Mike Kerner
>>>> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph,
>>>> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
>>>> testing to begin...now.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the
>>>>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad.
>>>>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a
>>>>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It
>>>>> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem,
>>>>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the
>>>>> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary
>>>>> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad").
>>>>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property
>>>>> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict
>>>>> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in
>>>>> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow
>>>>> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection
>>>>> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock
>>>>> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media
>>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message?
>>>>> Someon

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Throwing NavRAD into my extensions folder doesn't seem to install it. I
wonder why.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:19 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets?
> there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart
> of the thing.
> and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source
> of anything.
> or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an
> extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the
>> resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their own.  It has
>> to happen from the LCS side.
>>
>> Brian Milby
>> br...@milby7.com
>>
>> > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip
>> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file
>> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension
>> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD
>> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated
>> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
>> >
>> > Thanks for taking a look!
>> >
>> > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated
>> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were
>> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb
>> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card
>> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs
>> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again.
>> >
>> >
>> > Ralph DiMola
>> > IT Director
>> > Evergreen Information Services
>> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
>> > To: How to use LiveCode
>> > Cc: Mike Kerner
>> > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
>> >
>> > Ralph,
>> > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
>> > testing to begin...now.
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the
>> >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad.
>> >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a
>> >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It
>> >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem,
>> >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the
>> >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary
>> >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad").
>> >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property
>> >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict
>> >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in
>> >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow
>> >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection
>> >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock
>> >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media
>> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message?
>> >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards
>> >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to
>> >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more
>> docs(or help).
>> >>
>> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==>
>> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2
>> >> .0.0.lce?dl=0
>> >>
>> >&

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

by the way, isn't it crazy how much overhead is required with lcb widgets?
there is so...much...stuff you have to put on top just to get to the heart
of the thing.
and i'm never going to like the way lc embeds the comments in the source of
anything.
or the way they spell "favourites", or pronounce "Aluminum". Do you see an
extra "i" in there? No? It's invisible, that's why.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 4:00 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the
> resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their own.  It has
> to happen from the LCS side.
>
> Brian Milby
> br...@milby7.com
>
> > On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip
> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file
> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension
> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD
> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated
> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
> >
> > Thanks for taking a look!
> >
> > Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated
> from the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were
> destroyed. No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb
> file. So many unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card
> width with a user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs
> are so scant and confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again.
> >
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
> > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: Mike Kerner
> > Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
> >
> > Ralph,
> > got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
> > testing to begin...now.
> >
> >> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the
> >> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad.
> >> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a
> >> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It
> >> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem,
> >> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the
> >> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary
> >> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad").
> >> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property
> >> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict
> >> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in
> >> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow
> >> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection
> >> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock
> >> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media
> icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message?
> >> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards
> >> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to
> >> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more
> docs(or help).
> >>
> >> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==>
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2
> >> .0.0.lce?dl=0
> >>
> >>
> >> Ralph DiMola
> >> IT Director
> >> Evergreen Information Services
> >> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
&g

Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

I think the user is going to need to code the width adjustment in the 
resizeStack handler.  Widgets can’t change their rect on their own.  It has to 
happen from the LCS side.

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip 
> format. Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file 
> in there. Also when you install it the source will be in the extension 
> folder. But since I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD 
> Change" to show where I have made changes. Here is the link to the updated 
> source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0
> 
> Thanks for taking a look!
> 
> Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from 
> the lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. 
> No problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many 
> unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a 
> user setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and 
> confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again.
> 
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Mike Kerner
> Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual
> 
> Ralph,
> got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
> testing to begin...now.
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the 
>> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. 
>> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a 
>> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It 
>> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, 
>> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the 
>> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary 
>> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad").
>> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property 
>> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict 
>> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in 
>> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 
>> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection 
>> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock 
>> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons 
>> don’t need labels. Why a pre message?
>> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards 
>> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to 
>> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or 
>> help).
>> 
>> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2
>> .0.0.lce?dl=0
>> 
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
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> 
> 
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, 
> God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
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RE: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Mike,

For future reference the source is in the .lce file. The .lce is in zip format. 
Temporarily change the extension to .zip. You will see the lcb file in there. 
Also when you install it the source will be in the extension folder. But since 
I posted .lce I have put in comments starting with "RAD Change" to show where I 
have made changes. Here is the link to the updated 
source==>https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv930usovpruo5e/navrad.lcb?dl=0

Thanks for taking a look!

Also I found that after I updated the docs that the docs are generated from the 
lcb file. I re-built the widget and boom my doc changes were destroyed. No 
problem I just had redo the docs for my changes in the lcb file. So many 
unknowns. I am trying to find a way to resize it to the card width with a user 
setting for height percent of card width. But the docs are so scant and 
confusing I feel the giant headache coming on again.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Mike Kerner via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2022 3:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mike Kerner
Subject: Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

Ralph,
got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
testing to begin...now.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the 
> navbar widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. 
> It does not modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a 
> challenge. There were so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It 
> adds 4 new properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, 
> preHilitedItemName) and 1 new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the 
> documentation so the new properties and message show in the dictionary 
> with example(search for "navrad" or just "rad").
> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property 
> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict 
> that I could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in 
> the property inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 
> 1)enlarge/center the icon if there is no label 2)intercept a selection 
> before it is hilited and make a choice to hilite and send the stock 
> hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no label? For one social media icons 
> don’t need labels. Why a pre message?
> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards 
> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to 
> card width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or 
> help).
>
> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2
> .0.0.lce?dl=0
>
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God 
created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Ralph,
got the source, somewhere? i'd like to learn from it.
testing to begin...now.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:32 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar
> widget. I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not
> modify the stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were
> so many unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new
> properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1
> new message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new
> properties and message show in the dictionary with example(search for
> "navrad" or just "rad").
> One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property
> autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I
> could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property
> inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon
> if there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make
> a choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why
> no label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message?
> Someone suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards
> compatible with existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card
> width request. I will look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help).
>
> If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0
>
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 9/2/22 16:54, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:

Did a simple test with 819kb json file:
- JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms
- PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms
- mergJSON / extension 250 ms


That's impressive. Monte's external is written in C, so that's as close 
to bare metal as we're gonna get.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Did a simple test with 819kb json file:
- JSON Library / LCB 5400 ms
- PhotonJSON / LCS 400 ms
- mergJSON / extension 250 ms

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 2, 2022, at 4:27 PM, Brian Milby  wrote:
> 
> Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS 
> (PhotonJSON).  I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster.  Probably worth 
> a shot to actually test in more detail.  I tried to import the smartcrumbs 
> output with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful 
> (probably due to the MD5 hashes).
> 
> Each has strengths and a use case.  LCB can do quite a bit that you just 
> can’t do with LCS.  The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget 
> over a grouped control is another plus.  I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed 
> of the new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines.  LC Mark would 
> be the one to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though.
> 
> Brian Milby
> br...@milby7.com
> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS
>> 
>> Um, no.
>> There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in 
>> what is supported and what is different.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Look no further than comparing the JSON library written in LCB and LCS 
(PhotonJSON).  I’m thinking that the LCS is probably faster.  Probably worth a 
shot to actually test in more detail.  I tried to import the smartcrumbs output 
with the external, LCB and LCS and only the LCS even was successful (probably 
due to the MD5 hashes).

Each has strengths and a use case.  LCB can do quite a bit that you just can’t 
do with LCS.  The efficiency of dealing with a single object widget over a 
grouped control is another plus.  I’d imagine quite a bit of the speed of the 
new widgets over DG is going to be along these lines.  LC Mark would be the one 
to speak to speed differences between LCB and LCS though.

Brian Milby
br...@milby7.com

> On Sep 2, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS
> 
> Um, no.
> There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in what 
> is supported and what is different.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 9/2/22 10:43, Jacques Clavel via use-livecode wrote:


You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS


Um, no.
There are quite a few pain points trying to determine the differences in 
what is supported and what is different.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Jacques Clavel via use-livecode]

As a typed language, LCB should be more efficient than LCS.
Writing programs in LCB is more difficult and time consuming (bogs...) than
using higher level language (LCS)
You can write exactly the same functions, commands in LCB than in LCS
JC

Le ven. 2 sept. 2022 à 17:13, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> a écrit :

> I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering,
> then, in the demo
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C
> > externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own
> > it is slower than both.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Its much faster than C but slower than Script.
> >
> > Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"?
> >
> > In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part?
> >
> > ___
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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-- 
Jacques Clavel
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I wonder why the polygrid is so much faster than the datagrid at rendering,
then, in the demo

On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 10:54 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C
> externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own
> it is slower than both.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> wrote:
>
> Its much faster than C but slower than Script.
>
> Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"?
>
> In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part?
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Or slower than both? As I understand it, LCB has the capability to call C 
externals which themselves would be faster than anything, but on it's own it is 
slower than both.

Bob S


On Sep 2, 2022, at 01:00 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Its much faster than C but slower than Script.

Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"?

In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part?

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Its much faster than C but slower than Script.

Should that be "much slower than C but faster than Script"?

In which case, what happened to the "faster than script" part?
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NAVRAD was: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

I took a major stab at LCB and created a new widget based on the navbar widget. 
I have made 2 changes to the navbar and call it navrad. It does not modify the 
stock navbar. With almost no docs it was a challenge. There were so many 
unknowns I got a few giant headaches. It adds 4 new 
properties(iconFill,autoRADHilite,preHilitedItem, preHilitedItemName) and 1 new 
message(preHiliteChanged). I updated the documentation so the new properties 
and message show in the dictionary with example(search for "navrad" or just 
"rad").
One thing I ran into was that I had to call the "autohilite" property 
autoRADHilite because using any existing property causes a confilict that I 
could not get around without sufficient docs. It does show in the property 
inspector as "auto hilite". These changes allow 1)enlarge/center the icon if 
there is no label 2)intercept a selection before it is hilited and make a 
choice to hilite and send the stock hiliteChanged message (or not). Why no 
label? For one social media icons don’t need labels. Why a pre message? Someone 
suggested it and I thought it was a great idea. Backwards compatible with 
existing navbar LCS code. The was an auto sizing to card width request. I will 
look to see if I can do it without more docs(or help).

If anyone would like to try it and find any bugs it's at ==> 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/51zm4m8dip49jov/com.livecode.widget.navrad.2.0.0.lce?dl=0


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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Re: lcb missing manual

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets.
> I suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well,
> so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>
> So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I?

Foreign Function Interface, and certain custom control needs.

In short, the language choice hierarchy seems to be:

- Use LC Script wherever you can.

- If you need FFI or have specific rendering/packaging needs
  for shared components beyond what custom group-based controls
  offer, use LC Builder.

- If raw CPU speed is absolutely critical, consider externals.


Kevin said this more eloquently back around the time LC Builder premiered:

I think this is a really important principal. Always use
the highest level language you can for any given project.
Offering that very high level language option is a big
part of LiveCode's reason for being.

Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode
Script and a lower level language such as C. Now we have
a third choice, an intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its
much faster than C but slower than Script. It is going
to excel at certain tasks. However we should always
choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages
above LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the
extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its
very tempting having added a whole new language to build
everything in that, but we must carefully resist that
temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is best at.

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-August/217849.html


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems

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RE: lcb missing manual

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

42

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 11:11 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: Re: lcb missing manual

Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it 
faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only 
needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I 
reply, "Now you are asking the right question."

Bob S


On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I suppose 
I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I?

gc

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Also, when it comes to performance, developers should ask not only is it 
faster, but would anyone notice the difference? I used to say, "A computer only 
needs to be fast enough." Some will ask, "Fast enough for what?" To which I 
reply, "Now you are asking the right question."

Bob S


On Aug 31, 2022, at 21:54 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I
suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I?

gc

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't know why you would.
Libraries that aren't trying to get into system-level API's don't need to
be there.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 12:56 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I
> suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>
> So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I?
>
> gc
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be
> > lower-level.
> > The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a
> polyGrid
> > (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much
> faster.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily
> > > link to much faster compiler code.  I’m not sure if that has changed
> > any… I
> > > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some
> speed
> > > tests.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t
> > > find it.
> > > >
> > > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t
> find
> > > the page)
> > > >
> > > > — N times faster execution than LCS
> > > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks
> > > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets
> > > >
> > > > More?
> > > >
> > > > gc
> > > >
> > > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:
> > > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
> > > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of
> LC,
> > > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least
> > for
> > > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
> > > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of
> > > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.
> > > >>
> > > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to
> > > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the
> > > "#FF" format isn't accepted.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Mark Wieder
> > > >> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Agreed -- I've put off LCB because I don't much bother with widgets. I
suppose I could update Navigator, but it already works well, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So if it isn't faster, dare I say it, why would I?

gc

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:54 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be
> lower-level.
> The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a polyGrid
> (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much faster.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily
> > link to much faster compiler code.  I’m not sure if that has changed
> any… I
> > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed
> > tests.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t
> > find it.
> > >
> > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find
> > the page)
> > >
> > > — N times faster execution than LCS
> > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks
> > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets
> > >
> > > More?
> > >
> > > gc
> > >
> > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:
> > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
> > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC,
> > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least
> for
> > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
> > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of
> > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious.
> > >>
> > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.
> > >>
> > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to
> > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the
> > "#FF" format isn't accepted.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Mark Wieder
> > >> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Sean Cole via use-livecode]

The subject of the dictionary has long been one of contention. One that I
have often spoken up and been shouted down about (nb, I'm not making
accusations or flames :) ). But I also understand the great amount of
resources this would take to produce decent, up to date guides and
indices of all the terms and libraries. LC's become quite the behemoth and
I doubt any one individual could carry it out. Indeed, even a bunch of us
during past HacktoberFests only achieved a percentage of it.

The AI thing Kevin showed us some time ago showed promise. But I'm not sure
how far off that is from seeing the light of day. Hopefully soon if I
haven't already missed it. But, even so, a lot of the examples, language
and syntax are out of date or incomplete so would still need some work.

As someone who eats manuals and dictionaries for brunch I'd love to be part
of the team to put it together as I have in the past. But I guess it would
depend on LCL having the resources to put into it. I would hope they see it
as important as we do.

All the best

On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 13:53, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be
> lower-level.
> The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a polyGrid
> (lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much faster.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily
> > link to much faster compiler code.  I’m not sure if that has changed
> any… I
> > could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed
> > tests.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t
> > find it.
> > >
> > > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find
> > the page)
> > >
> > > — N times faster execution than LCS
> > > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks
> > > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets
> > >
> > > More?
> > >
> > > gc
> > >
> > >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:
> > >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
> > >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC,
> > you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least
> for
> > now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
> > >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of
> > them seem to be documented anywhere obvious.
> > >>
> > >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.
> > >>
> > >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to
> > backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the
> > "#FF" format isn't accepted.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Mark Wieder
> > >> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

It would be interesting if lcb was slower, since it's supposed to be
lower-level.
The demo that Steven did, demonstrating the speed of populating a polyGrid
(lcb widget) vs. a dataGrid (lcs group) was that it was much, much faster.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 5:58 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily
> link to much faster compiler code.  I’m not sure if that has changed any… I
> could pull out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed
> tests.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t
> find it.
> >
> > I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find
> the page)
> >
> > — N times faster execution than LCS
> > — interface with code libraries using simple hooks
> > — bundle code and graphics together into widgets
> >
> > More?
> >
> > gc
> >
> >>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:
> >>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
> >>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC,
> you can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least for
> now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
> >>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of
> them seem to be documented anywhere obvious.
> >>
> >> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.
> >>
> >> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to
> backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the
> "#FF" format isn't accepted.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Wieder
> >> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

LCB has been slower than LCS, but the advantage is that you can easily link to 
much faster compiler code.  I’m not sure if that has changed any… I could pull 
out some code from a while back where we were doing some speed tests.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t find it. 
> 
> I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find the 
> page)
> 
> — N times faster execution than LCS
> — interface with code libraries using simple hooks
> — bundle code and graphics together into widgets
> 
> More?
> 
> gc
> 
>>> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
>>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, you 
>>> can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least for 
>>> now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
>>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of them 
>>> seem to be documented anywhere obvious.
>> 
>> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.
>> 
>> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to backpedal 
>> and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the "#FF" format 
>> isn't accepted.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Is there a page that discusses the pros of LCB? I looked and didn’t find it. 

I’m thinking of a simple list (I’m making this up because I didn’t find the 
page)

 — N times faster execution than LCS
 — interface with code libraries using simple hooks
 — bundle code and graphics together into widgets

More?

gc

> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:
>> the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
>> the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, you can 
>> hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least for now, you 
>> can still find much of it in the LC application
>> example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of them seem 
>> to be documented anywhere obvious.
> 
> Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.
> 
> The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to backpedal 
> and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the "#FF" format 
> isn't accepted.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 8/28/22 11:06, Mike Kerner wrote:

the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, you 
can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least for 
now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of them 
seem to be documented anywhere obvious.


Yep - I find most of my documentation by digging.

The lack of colornames just bit me earlier this week and I had to 
backpedal and code a list of a dozen color names as "R,G,B". Even the 
"#FF" format isn't accepted.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

the lcb documentation, especially in the api widget is ungreat.
the good news is that as long as there is an oss repo version of LC, you
can hunt for some of the information that is missing. AND, at least for
now, you can still find much of it in the LC application
example: as i was hunting, i found a bunch of editors, but none of them
seem to be documented anywhere obvious.

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 1:18 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 8/28/22 09:58, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > things for lcb that are supposedly documented, but i can't find:
> > * editor types (e.g. com.livecode.pi.number)
> > * other metadata definitions for properties, widgets, etc.)
>
> ...things that we use in LCS but aren't available in LCB:
> colornames
> switch statements
> etc.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: lcb missing manual

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 8/28/22 09:58, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

things for lcb that are supposedly documented, but i can't find:
* editor types (e.g. com.livecode.pi.number)
* other metadata definitions for properties, widgets, etc.)


...things that we use in LCS but aren't available in LCB:
colornames
switch statements
etc.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: lcb missing manual

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

It would be good were there full documentation for LCB, and, preferably
with some sort of thematic search so, unlike the LiveCode dictionary one
did not have to flounder around so much working out what to search for.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, 18:00 Mike Kerner via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> things for lcb that are supposedly documented, but i can't find:
> * editor types (e.g. com.livecode.pi.number)
> * other metadata definitions for properties, widgets, etc.)
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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lcb missing manual

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

things for lcb that are supposedly documented, but i can't find:
* editor types (e.g. com.livecode.pi.number)
* other metadata definitions for properties, widgets, etc.)

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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