Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[David Vaughan]

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 05:00 , Dar Scott wrote:
>
> The doc says nothing about this.
>
> I'm disappointed that we are reduced to talking about int and real, 
> programmer jargon.
>
>>> The implication is that applications that need a decimal point need 
>>> to have lots of special code.
>>
>> Not really. Treat it as one of string, integer or floating point (s, 
>> m, e) and BCD or "binary point" can take care of themselves.
>
> I don't understand.  I don't know of types in Revolution (except string 
> vs array).  Suppose I want to keep up with money.  If I understand the 
> implications of Ian's experiment, my books might not balance.

Rev is not a strongly typed language but I never expected that _all_ 
issues of data types would disappear. A solution (use round when it must 
be integer, raise to the power 1 when it must be floating point and 
concatenate with empty for a string) is straightforward enough and 
rarely needed.

Incidentally, MS Excel fails the following test
mod(12.3,1.23) = 0
where rev gets it right so MC is not alone in having issues with mod 
(Excel produces a residual of about 1e-15; not zero). Further, some 
languages will, I believe, say that "-340 mod 60" is 20 or -20 
(arguable) where the MC engine fairly rationally says -40 so that is 
another one to consider.

I have had to compel the data type once or twice in HC and the same 
stack(s) in RR but a general awareness of the possibility is usually 
sufficient not to get caught by it. A bit like deliberately over-using 
parentheses to make sure the compiler understands you; just being safe. 
Perhaps some notes could be added to the documentation to raise this 
awareness for all.

regards
David

>
> Dar Scott
>
>
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Re: The Day Today is... ummm....

[Magnus von Brömsen]

In  Sweden (nearly Europe =)) I get from Sunday through Saturday for both

/Magnus von Brömsen


On fredag, mars 29, 2002, at 08:35 , David Vaughan wrote:

>
> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 05:34 , Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>> At 11:34 AM +1100 3/29/02, Matt Denton wrote:
>>> This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various 
>>> localised System Times:
>>>
>>> On my OSX System, 10.1.3
>>>
>>> "put the system WeekdayNames"
>>>
>>> returns:
>>>
>>> Saturday
>>> Sunday
> snip
>>> "put the WeekdayNames"
>>> returns:
>>>
>>> Sunday
>>> Monday
> snip
>>
>> On my OS X 10.1.3 box, I got Sunday through Saturday for both.
>
> So we know at least it is an Australia problem (Matt and I both saw it 
> and are in Oz) and not a US one. I wonder what happens in Japan? Any 
> word on Britain, Europe, South Africa?
>
> David
>> --
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Geoff Canyon
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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hierarchical menus

[Pierre-Marie CARETTE]

for "Ivers, Doug E"

on createPrefMenu
  -- this is called in preOpenStack
  -- create Preferences menu contents with tab in front of each font name
  --- (to make the font list a submenu)
  -- prerequisite: a button "Preferences" in group "menubar0"
---
put return &the fontNames into tabFontList
replace return with return & tab in tabFontList
 
  put "Font" & tabFontList into button "Preferences" of group
"menubar0"
end createPrefMenu

The tabkey use and doesn't use in  field-text-properties palette.
Solution  
Write the menu in a fld
copy
paste in the text of the properties palette
et hop !  it works

Revolution is very quick. You can build your menu in a handler "moueenter".
It will be ready when the  user "mousedown".
Revolution is very very quickly (I i compare with my old Hypercard)
I even build menus in the same handler "mousedown"

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Re: Sending mail on Windows?

[Magnus von Brömsen]

On onsdag, mars 27, 2002, at 06:16 , Rob Cozens wrote:

> I hope you picked up on my second note that the handlers were not 
> working correctly for me...and please call me Rob (or "you damned 
> foole" in cases where it is more appropriate).

Okay,  Rob.
I solved it in another way (that I think is better for 
computer-illiterate).
If there are any other rookies (like me) out there, who wants to save a 
text with different extension, here is the script:

on mouseUp
   answer "Choose one" with "Excel" or "Word" or "Plain Text" or "Cancel"
   if it is "Excel" then
 ask file "Save order as:" with "Untitled" with filter "Excel 
file,*.xls"
 if it is empty then exit mouseUp
 put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it & ".xls")
   else
 if it is "Word" then
 ask file "Save order as:" with "Untitled" with filter "Word 
file,*.doc"
 if it is empty then exit mouseUp
 put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it & ".doc")
   else
 if it is "Plain Text" then
 ask file "Save order as:" with "Untitled" with filter "Plain Text 
file,*.txt"
 if it is empty then exit mouseUp
 put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it & ".txt")
   end if
end if
end if
end mouseUp

/Magnus von Bromsen

---
"Bränt barn skyr Windows."
---
Studio Alice
Magnus von Brömsen
0702-212 495
0322-633 833
www.studioalice.se

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Re: Sending mail on Windows?

[Magnus von Brömsen]

Thanks Ken,
that was quit a bit different from the mac-way. I had never figured out 
that for myself.

/magnus


On onsdag, mars 27, 2002, at 04:54 , Ken Ray wrote:

> Magnus,
>
> Here's the code I use (the Windows part):
>
> on SendMail tMailTo
>   put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\mailto\shell\open\command\" into
> tMailApp
>   if tMailApp = "" then exit SendMail
>   if (quote & "%1" & quote is in tMailApp then replace quote & "%1" & 
> quote
> with tMailTo in tMailApp
>   if "%1" is in tMailApp then replace %1 with tMailTo in tMailApp
>   open process tMailApp for neither
> end SendMail
>
> Called by something like:
>
> on mouseUp
>   SendMail "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> end mouseUp
>
> The funky "%1" situations are based on experience. Sometimes the 
> registry
> key will just have an Application, like:
>
>   "c:\program files\myMailApp\myMailApp.exe"
>
> Other times it will be quoted, like:
>
>   "c:\program files\my mail app\myMailApp.exe" "%1"
>
> And occasionally like this:
>
>   "c:\program files\my mail app\my MailApp.exe %1"
>
> This code takes care of all those situations.
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Magnus von Brömsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:37 AM
> Subject: Sending mail on Windows?
>
>
>> Hello
>>
>> Om macintosh you can use:
>> revGoURL "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";
>>
>> But, how do you do it on Windows? In the Transcript Dictionary it says
>> that "mailto" is mac-only.
>>
>> (Mr. Cozens, thanks for the tip about file extension.)
>>
>> /magnus von brömsen
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Man skall inte ropa hej förrän pc'n är skjuten"
>> --
>> Studio Alice
>> Magnus von Brömsen
>> 0702-212 495
>> 0322-633 833
>> www.studioalice.se
>>
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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 11:04 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> No worries and it was worth a chuckle. Actually, I did indeed copy 
> your code into the message box exactly as you had it, got false, 
> then experimentally typed in
>  "put .8 + .2 = 10"
>  and finally noticed just before I hit the enter key...  ;-)

Here is a better example:

on mouseUp
   put "235.00" into var
   repeat for 100 times
 put var + "0.01" into var
   end repeat
   Put var && (var = "236.00") into field "Report"
end mouseUp

This puts "236 false" into the field.

This works as hoped (for cent arithmetic):

on mouseUp
   put "235.00" into var
   repeat for 100 times
 put round(var + "0.01",2) into var
   end repeat
   Put var && (var = "236.00") into field "Report"
end mouseUp

Dar

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Re: The Day Today is... ummm....

[David Vaughan]

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 05:34 , Geoff Canyon wrote:

> At 11:34 AM +1100 3/29/02, Matt Denton wrote:
>> This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various 
>> localised System Times:
>>
>> On my OSX System, 10.1.3
>>
>> "put the system WeekdayNames"
>>
>> returns:
>>
>>  Saturday
>>  Sunday
snip
>> "put the WeekdayNames"
>> returns:
>>
>>  Sunday
>>  Monday
snip
>
> On my OS X 10.1.3 box, I got Sunday through Saturday for both.

So we know at least it is an Australia problem (Matt and I both saw it 
and are in Oz) and not a US one. I wonder what happens in Japan? Any 
word on Britain, Europe, South Africa?

David
> --
>
> regards,
>
> Geoff Canyon
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: The Day Today is... ummm....

[Geoff Canyon]

At 11:34 AM +1100 3/29/02, Matt Denton wrote:
>This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various localised System 
>Times:
>
>On my OSX System, 10.1.3
>
>"put the system WeekdayNames"
>
>returns:
>
>   Saturday
>   Sunday
>   Monday
>   Tuesday
>   Wednesday
>   Thursday
>   Friday
>
>and
>
>"put the WeekdayNames"
>
>returns:
>
>   Sunday
>   Monday
>   Tuesday
>   Wednesday
>   Thursday
>   Friday
>   Saturday

On my OS X 10.1.3 box, I got Sunday through Saturday for both.
-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:15 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Mod, incidentally, is (or was) intended as an integer function 
> rather than one for real (floating point) numbers.

The doc says nothing about this.

I'm disappointed that we are reduced to talking about int and real, 
programmer jargon.

Mathematically, depending on usage, mod is defined over real (in 
the math sense).


>> The implication is that applications that need a decimal point 
>> need to have lots of special code.
>
> Not really. Treat it as one of string, integer or floating point 
> (s, m, e) and BCD or "binary point" can take care of themselves.

I don't understand.  I don't know of types in Revolution (except 
string vs array).  Suppose I want to keep up with money.  If I 
understand the implications of Ian's experiment, my books might not 
balance.

Dar Scott


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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[David Vaughan]

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 04:48 , Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:15 PM, David Vaughan wrote:
>
>>> This is discouraging.  I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into the 
>>> message window and got false.
>> So did I but my discouragement was alleviated by typing ".2 + .2 + 
>> .2 + .2 + .2 = 1"  !!:-)
>
> How embarrassing!!
Dar
No worries and it was worth a chuckle. Actually, I did indeed copy your 
code into the message box exactly as you had it, got false, then 
experimentally typed in
  "put .8 + .2 = 10"
  and finally noticed just before I hit the enter key...  ;-)
David
>
> Dar
>
>
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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:15 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

>> This is discouraging.  I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into 
>> the message window and got false.
> So did I but my discouragement was alleviated by typing ".2 + .2 + 
> .2 + .2 + .2 = 1"  !!:-)

How embarrassing!!

Dar


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Re: Hot Girls And Wild Horses! (Rev & MX)

[Troy Rollins]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Wayne Townsend wrote:

> I think that this combination of Rev and FlashMX truly gives us the 
> tools to build the next level of applications.  We have been working 
> for years with Flash4 & Flamethrower, with very good results, and have 
> a lot of info to share if you're interested.

Wayne,
There is already starting a fair amount of discussion on this topic 
here. It seems several (many?) of us are looking toward a potential 
combination of Flash MX and Revolution. I'm sure anything you have to 
offer would be welcome. For my company (so far) MX development and Rev 
development are independent of each other. I would like to consider 
integrating them, but would also be interested in the challenges such a 
solution has solved for you in the past, and what you are looking toward 
doing with the pair (in a little more detail).

Certainly sounds like a lively topic anyway...

Cheers.

--
Troy
RPSystems
www.rpsystems.net

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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[David Vaughan]

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 03:43 , Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 09:06 PM, David Vaughan wrote:
>
>> Interesting bug. I changed your startpoint and endpoint to 4.9 & 5 
>> with no bug and 4.8 & 5 with the bug.
>> Changing the critical line to "put loop && round(loop) mod 5 & return 
>> after msg" disposes of the error so I it seems to be a trailing digits 
>> error in real arithmetic rather than a logical bug as such. "5 mod 5" 
>> of course always produces 0.
>
> This is discouraging.  I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into the 
> message window and got false.
So did I but my discouragement was alleviated by typing ".2 + .2 + .2 + 
.2 + .2 = 1"  !!:-)

> I assume by real you mean floating point, as typically implemented by 
> computer hardware, a number with a binary point.  I don't see anything 
> in the documentation as numbers being sometimes implemented as floating 
> point.

I don't know about the documentation but I mean with a sign, mantissa 
and exponent rather than BCD or integer. You can force this format, I 
believe, by taking an integer and raising it to a power, e.g.
put 4^1 into x
makes x a floating point number in the terms I suggest. If the number 
were BCD then I would not expect the failure Ian discovered, any more 
than you would for integer. Mod, incidentally, is (or was) intended as 
an integer function rather than one for real (floating point) numbers.
>
> I wouldn't mind this if it is transparent.  As long as a value looks 
> and acts like a string, I don't care how it is stored internally.
>
> As far as rounding, without evidence to the contrary one would have to 
> assume that numbers are rounded to a decimal point rather than to a 
> binary point.  (Numbers don't have to be represented in decimal for a 
> decimal point to be maintained, but they often are.)
>
> The implication is that applications that need a decimal point need to 
> have lots of special code.

Not really. Treat it as one of string, integer or floating point (s, m, 
e) and BCD or "binary point" can take care of themselves.

Incidentally, we are still working on that comparative challenge you set 
us, Dar.

cheers
David

> Dar Scott
>
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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 09:06 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Interesting bug. I changed your startpoint and endpoint to 4.9 & 5 
> with no bug and 4.8 & 5 with the bug.
> Changing the critical line to "put loop && round(loop) mod 5 & 
> return after msg" disposes of the error so I it seems to be a 
> trailing digits error in real arithmetic rather than a logical bug 
> as such. "5 mod 5" of course always produces 0.

This is discouraging.  I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into 
the message window and got false.

I assume by real you mean floating point, as typically implemented 
by computer hardware, a number with a binary point.  I don't see 
anything in the documentation as numbers being sometimes 
implemented as floating point.

I wouldn't mind this if it is transparent.  As long as a value 
looks and acts like a string, I don't care how it is stored 
internally.

As far as rounding, without evidence to the contrary one would have 
to assume that numbers are rounded to a decimal point rather than 
to a binary point.  (Numbers don't have to be represented in 
decimal for a decimal point to be maintained, but they often are.)

The implication is that applications that need a decimal point need 
to have lots of special code.
Dar Scott

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Re: Hi , greeting etc.

[pixelbird]

> powerful, just a shame there is no documentation, (I 
know there is on-line,
> but, nothing better than a bit of paper)
--
First of all, welcome, I hope this is a good experience 
for you.

I'm hotrodding an old Mac to use specifically for 
reference. It will have all the Rev docs (plus those for 
other programs, too), and I will add working examples 
as I go, so I can watch what happens, notes about 
platform compatibility (or lack thereof), etc.
--
> miock (I know I am a Michael, but there may be other 
michaels out there with
> prior rights to this list, so if you don't mind...)
--
OK. See ya later, miock.

Finest regards,
Ken N.






-
   The Computer Place
Info = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.compplace.com/


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Re: MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[David Vaughan]

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 02:53 , Ian Summerfield wrote:

> The code I give here might look inefficient, the code comes from a large
> project, so there are reasons for doing it this way!
>
> It's just taken me several hours to figure out why my code wasn't 
> working,
> and it turns out to be a bug in Revolution.
>
> Revolution 1.1.1b2 (OS X 10.1.3) seems to think 5 mod 5 = 5 whereas it 
> is
> zero.

> on mouseup
>   put 235 into startPoint
>   put 255 into endPoint
>   put 0.1 into increment
>   put empty into msg
>   put startPoint into loop
>   repeat while loop<=endPoint
> put loop && loop mod 5 & return after msg
> add increment to loop
>   end repeat
> end mouseup
>
ian

Interesting bug. I changed your startpoint and endpoint to 4.9 & 5 with 
no bug and 4.8 & 5 with the bug.
Changing the critical line to "put loop && round(loop) mod 5 & return 
after msg" disposes of the error so I it seems to be a trailing digits 
error in real arithmetic rather than a logical bug as such. "5 mod 5" of 
course always produces 0.

cheers
David

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MOD function does not work! So be warned!

[Ian Summerfield]

The code I give here might look inefficient, the code comes from a large
project, so there are reasons for doing it this way!

It's just taken me several hours to figure out why my code wasn't working,
and it turns out to be a bug in Revolution.

Revolution 1.1.1b2 (OS X 10.1.3) seems to think 5 mod 5 = 5 whereas it is
zero.


Try this code:

on mouseup
  put 235 into startPoint
  put 255 into endPoint
  put 0.1 into increment
  put empty into msg
  put startPoint into loop
  repeat while loop<=endPoint
put loop && loop mod 5 & return after msg
add increment to loop
  end repeat
end mouseup

It will output to the message box a list of numbers.  The loop counter is on
each line followed by a space and the loop mod 5.

Here's my output:

235 0    correct
235.1 0.1
235.2 0.2
235.3 0.3
<>
240 5    wrong and impossible
240.1 0.1
240.2 0.2
240.3 0.3
<>
244.9 4.9
245 5    wrong and impossible
245.1 0.1
245.2 0.2
245.3 0.3
<>
250 5    wrong and impossible
250.1 0.1
250.2 0.2
250.3 0.3
<>
254.9 4.9
255 5    wrong and impossible

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Revolution under Darwin

[Mark Guzdial]

Is anyone running Revolution under Darwin (e.g., using an X server and 
some window manager)?  If so, could you let me know what window manager 
you're using, and perhaps any tricks you've used? After trying rooted 
and rootless, Oroborus and Enlightenment, with and without Gnome, I 
can't get it past the startup screen.  I do get that far, but then it 
always Aborts.

Thanks for any tips!
   Mark

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Re: The Day Today is... ummm....

[David Vaughan]

Matt

If you look at the Comments at the bottom of the Dictionary entry, it 
seems it is an OSX issue rather than Rev. Although, why Apple imagines 
the Australian week starts on Saturday is unknown to me...

cheers
David

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 11:34 , Matt Denton wrote:

> This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various 
> localised System Times:
>
> On my OSX System, 10.1.3
>
> "put the system WeekdayNames"
>
> returns:
>
>   Saturday
>   Sunday
>   Monday
>   Tuesday
>   Wednesday
>   Thursday
>   Friday
>
> and
>
> "put the WeekdayNames"
>
> returns:
>
>   Sunday
>   Monday
>   Tuesday
>   Wednesday
>   Thursday
>   Friday
>   Saturday
>
> Now I checked all my System settings (Date and Time and International) 
> and all are normal.  In Sydney, Australia, our week doesn't really 
> start on Saturday (although technically speaking, we are ahead of most 
> of the world... sun rises in our sector first :~) so I'm wondering if 
> anyone else has this error in WeekDayNames?  Is this OSX, Rev, or the 
> fact that Australia clocks over before much of the rest of the world?
>
>  Chow from Down Under, Sunny-side up!
>
> M@
> Matt Denton
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The Day Today is... ummm....

[Matt Denton]

This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various 
localised System Times:

On my OSX System, 10.1.3

"put the system WeekdayNames"

returns:

Saturday
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday

and

"put the WeekdayNames"

returns:

Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday

Now I checked all my System settings (Date and Time and International) 
and all are normal.  In Sydney, Australia, our week doesn't really start 
on Saturday (although technically speaking, we are ahead of most of the 
world... sun rises in our sector first :~) so I'm wondering if anyone 
else has this error in WeekDayNames?  Is this OSX, Rev, or the fact that 
Australia clocks over before much of the rest of the world?

  Chow from Down Under, Sunny-side up!

M@
Matt Denton

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Running a standalone as a W2K service

[Dar Scott]

Has anybody tried running a Revolution standalone as a Windows 
service?  (Haven't really done my homework on this.  I know there 
is a method to run an arbitrary program as a service, but I have 
not explored that.  I thought I'd learn what pitfalls folks have 
found first.)

Dar Scott

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Re: File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution

[Rob Cozens]

>I'm new to Revolution (I'm a long-time FORTRAN programmer), and am
>having trouble understanding how file input/output, arrays, and
>databases work in this package.

Hi Dennis,

>I've created several complex air pollution modeling programs in
>FORTRAN.  I want to use Revolution to act as the GUI interface to and
>from these programs.  As a result, Revolution must read and write files
>which the FORTRAN programs use or create.  Every line of these files are
>of mixed type: character fields, integer number fields, real number
>fields, scientific notation fields, etc.  In looking at the Revolution
>documentation, it appears that I have to somehow read or write each line
>as a string, then somehow parse each field from this string.  So how do
>you do this efficiently in Revolution?

Transcript, like other Xtalk languages is adept at string processing, 
and hides internal data formats from the user.  If you can easily 
convert integer & real variables to & from strings in FORTRAN (it's 
been so long since I used a FORTRAN compiler I've forgotten), I'd do 
it there and concentrate on string manipulation in Transcript.

Transcript offers three built-in delimiters for string parsing: word, 
line, item.

A word is delimited by one or more space characters or the return 
character, except that a quoted string counts as one word.

A line is delimited by a single return character.  It is essentially 
an item where the itemDelimiter is the return character.

An item is delimited by the last specified itemDelimiter, the default 
itemDelimiter is comma; however you can set it to any valid character 
(eg: set the itemDelimiter to numToChar(240)).

putting something into line or item x will create any missing 
lines/items between 1 and (x-1).  Putting something into word x where 
x is not 1 and word (x-1) does not exist is non sequitur: in essence, 
you can have an empty line or item, but not an empty word.

You can have items in words ("this,is,four,items") and items in lines 
("this,is,four,items"&return).  You can also have lines in items 
("This"&return&"is"&return"&"one"&return&"item"&comma). So long as 
you can convert your data to ASCII text and can identify a character 
value that can never appear in your text file as an item delimiter, 
you can set the itemDelimiter and parse away.

The preferred method of parsing the text once you have opened the 
file and read until EOF (if memory is sufficient; otherwise you'll 
have to read until return and process one line at a time) is 
something along the lines of:

put the itemDelimiter into someTempVariable -- to restore when done
set the itemDelimiter to myDelimiter
repeat for each line dataRecord of myFileData
   put item 1 of dataRecord into someStringVariable
   put item 2 of dataRecord into someInteger
   put (item 3 of it is "t") into someBoolean
end repeat
set the itemDelimiter to someTempVariable

Please note: The above syntax is MUCH more efficient than

repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of myFileData
   put line x of myFileData into dataRecord
   ...
end repeat

>The next question is how are arrays implemented in Revolution?. I've
>searched the documentation but haven't found anything.  What I'd like to
>do is read in the FORTRAN files, putting the data into Revolution arrays
>for display or calculational analysis.  How can this be done?

You can also set up arrays of three dimensions or more using multiple 
delimiters:

 From my post of 7 Jan, 2002:

>>
function getElement xCoord,yCoord,zCoord,xDelim,yDelim,zDelim,zaArray
   put the itemDelimiter into savedDelimiter
   set the itemDelimiter to zDelim
   get item zCoord of zaArray
   set the itemDelimiter to yDelim
   get item yCoord of it
   set the itemDelimiter to xDelim
   get item xCoord of it
   set the itemDelimiter to savedDelimiter
   return it
end getElement
<<

In addition, and this is especially useful for discontinuous arrays, 
Transcript supports implicit single dimension hash tables by simply 
appending array notation to a variable name: eg: put someValue into 
myVariable[someKey].



>Finally, I tam interested in the database capabilities of Revolution
>(especially the Valentina engine).  I'd like to read in the data from
>the FORTRAN files and directly put them into a database so that
>information can be searched, manipulated, calculated. etc.  How can this
>be done?

Revolution includes built-in support for the Valentina engine and 
several flavors of SQL database.  In addition, it's quite easy to 
create a simple single-user database directly in transcript.  The 
demo at http://www.oenolog.com/apple_demo.htm includes a generic db 
stack and a library of drivers in HyperCard.

>I realize these are complex questions. But the use of Revolution for
>this project hinges on how well this can be done with the package.
>
>Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Dennis F. Kahlbaum
>University of Michigan
>

Hope this helps.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://

Hot Girls And Wild Horses! (Rev & MX)

[Wayne Townsend]

Greetings from Palm Springs,

Interested in communicating with others who develop using Flash MX on 
the client side and Rev on the server side.

I think that this combination of Rev and FlashMX truly gives us the 
tools to build the next level of applications.  We have been working 
for years with Flash4 & Flamethrower, with very good results, and 
have a lot of info to share if you're interested.

Our particular focus is on on-line, real-time, multi-user gaming 
projects, and Educational (LDL/WBT) projects.  These are 
*Community-based, live Web Applications*, not isolated desktop apps.

Now we're full-on to a Rev and MX conversion for our next series of 
multi-user games, and would enjoy posts on the list from other 
developers who are interested in a little focus sub-group of Rev/MX.

The next challenge?  Getting MX to communicate locally with a Rev cgi 
(on the same machine).

That would be a breakthrough.


All the best,

/wayne

PS:  relax...  play bingo...
Visit: http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com/sgn

Wayne Townsend
Founder, Accesson

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alt: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.accesson.net

Studio: Yucca Valley, CA
760.228.2301
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Re: Problem with modification dates

[Tim]

On 3/28/02 2:05 PM, "Geoff Canyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 8:33 AM -0500 3/28/02, Tim wrote:
>> I have two identical stacks on two machines, a Mac OS X and a Win2K. I want
>> to have a third stack be able to look up the modification date of both
>> stacks and open the most recently modified stack. The problem is that when I
>> open the stack which resides on a Mac with PC Revolution and modify it  and
>> save it, the modification date does not change on a Mac. This is very weird
>> stuff indeed. Does anyone have a solution?
> 
> Do the stacks have the same name? You might be getting tripped up by
> Revolution's method of storing stacks in RAM. When you close a stack, it isn't
> really closed unless its destroyStack is set to true.

The stacks do have the same name, but that shouldn't matter because you can
see the modification date not changing even in the finder. It seems that if
you open a Mac stack on a Mac and save it, then the date gets updated, but
if you open the same stack from the PC through an AppleTalk network, then it
doesn't update. 
-- 
Tim

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Re: Hi , greeting etc.

[Geoff Canyon]

At 12:07 PM + 3/28/02, Michael Foy wrote:
>name Michael Foy
>I have been an alcoholic (whoops wrong group) Mac user since 1984, Loved
>Hertz's HyperCard, agreed with Douglas Adams views of HyperCard, still
>think it was the best card programming applications, then owned Supercard
>(ah the colour, bliss, oh separate editor player, oh well) still a very nice
>program) Ah Revolutions, er, bit confusing, still a very nice program, v
>powerful, just a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line,
>but, nothing better than a bit of paper)

Printed documentation is coming...

In the meantime, you can use the RTFer stack available on the user contributions page 
to extract the online documentation to RTF format (or text or HTML).

By the way, as a general note, I fixed the but in RTFer where it put the syntax 
example in place of the example code, and I added a page number to the RTF export.

>So long live the revolution and hopefully we have some revolution gurus
>here
>
>Is there an easy way to convert HyperCard stacks to revolution?

Yes and no. Yes, in that you simply open the HyperCard stack in Revolution (couldn't 
be easier than that, could it?). No, in that many HyperCard stacks use XCMDs or syntax 
that are unnecessary or slightly different in Revolution. Generally, for any 
reasonably complicated stack it's a reasonably involved process. Check out the 
excellent tutorial at:


-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Problem with modification dates

[Geoff Canyon]

At 8:33 AM -0500 3/28/02, Tim wrote:
>I have two identical stacks on two machines, a Mac OS X and a Win2K. I want
>to have a third stack be able to look up the modification date of both
>stacks and open the most recently modified stack. The problem is that when I
>open the stack which resides on a Mac with PC Revolution and modify it  and
>save it, the modification date does not change on a Mac. This is very weird
>stuff indeed. Does anyone have a solution?

Do the stacks have the same name? You might be getting tripped up by Revolution's 
method of storing stacks in RAM. When you close a stack, it isn't really closed unless 
its destroyStack is set to true.
-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution

[Zac Elston]

one month later and now I can answer questions

> fields, scientific notation fields, etc.  In looking at the Revolution
> documentation, it appears that I have to somehow read or write each line
> as a string, then somehow parse each field from this string.  So how do
> you do this efficiently in Revolution?   Please note that the files
> created by the FORTRAN programs are fairly large.
>

open file filename for read
read from file until EOF
put it into DaFile
close file Filename

now DaFile is a copy of the contents of Filename and you can use string and
line manipulation on the variable DaFile


> The next question is how are arrays implemented in Revolution?. I've
> searched the documentation but haven't found anything.  What I'd like to
> do is read in the FORTRAN files, putting the data into Revolution arrays
> for display or calculational analysis.  How can this be done?
>
reading lines MUST occur with a variable, it doens't seem to work with files
just guessing here

so
put line X of DaFile into MyLine
--make MyLine an array
--research the "split" command, arrays are not very well documented in the
help text.
split MyLine with somedelimiter
--get the keys of the array for later
put the keys of MyLine into MyKeys

now you have an array and the keys

> Finally, I tam interested in the database capabilities of Revolution
> (especially the Valentina engine).  I'd like to read in the data from
> the FORTRAN files and directly put them into a database so that
> information can be searched, manipulated, calculated. etc.  How can this
> be done?

can't help here, just about to try it myself...

-zac

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Re: capturing video

[Karl Petersen]

At 6:02 PM +0900 3/28/02, cowhead wrote:
>Alternatively, I will soon be buying a fire-wire ready video camera.
>Would it be easier to just record from video's to the digital camera,
>then use the camera as the video input device to the computer?

Yes, the video camera may be the better solution. It delivers the 
most bang for the buck. A standalone analog-to-digital converter box 
will do the job, but it may become redundant the moment you buy a 
camcorder. If the purchase were mine, I'd apply those $hundreds to a 
camcorder to get the best I can afford. THAT's the most important 
purchase.

(Speaking of $$, note that all camcorders come with a hidden 
accessory. When you open the box, a black hole emerges to take up 
residence in your house. It sucks up cash for hard disks, RAM, PCI 
cards, software and sometimes even a new Mac. For example, just a few 
seconds of video filled my old hard drive. Unless you have deep 
pockets, the black hole makes it doubly important to not waste money 
on hardware you will never use. Nonetheless, life with a black hole 
has advantages: Editing video may be the most fun you'll ever have on 
your Mac. And this newbie.rev finds the QuickTime-iMovie-Revolution 
combo a promising addition to my digital hub.)

On the other hand, if you plan to import hundreds of hours of video 
you may want to save wear and tear on your camcorder and get a 
converter box. The Dazzle DV Bridge is popular among iMovie users, 
but it costs $300. http://www.dazzle.com/products/hw_bridge.html. 
Most important, it supports FireWire, required for iMovie. If other 
cheaper solutions worked well, my guess is Dazzle wouldn't be so 
popular.

You don't say whether your source video is copy protected, so I'll 
mention there may be copy protection issues that limit your options, 
both hardware-wise and legal-wise.

And note that camcorders differ how they handle analog-to-digital 
conversions, especially with iMovie. Most will do what you want, but 
may require taping the source video. Some can't import video at all 
-- even video you've created in iMovie -- a limitation built into 
cameras sold in some parts of the world. Most will do what you want, 
however, but they do not work the same.

If your Mac has a free PCI slot, a cheap solution may be to add a TV 
Tuner card. They cost just $70, if you can find one, and let you 
watch TV on your Mac in a resizable window. They come with software 
to capture live TV/VCR video to a QuickTime movie. (I prefer using 
the $40 shareware program BTV Pro, which understands how to use most 
TV Tuner cards.) The faster your Mac, the better/larger your captured 
video can be. A 375 MHz G3 processor captures 320x240 video nicely at 
30fps using "None" compression. I compress it later, or bring it into 
iMovie. The captured video looks surprisingly good, although not as 
good as digital video from a camcorder. If your destination is a 
320x240 QuickTime movie the captured video may be plenty good enough. 
At that size, it's hard to tell the difference from camcorder video. 
The quality of the source video seems to be the key variable then, 
not the capture method.

Karl
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Re: extracting hypercard picts

[Ken Ray]

Mark,

For graphics in the resource fork of a HyperCard stack, you can use
GraphicConverter (I use 4.2). Go to File -> Convert... In the Filter popup
on the left, choose "PICT from Resource", and in the Dest Format popup
select either JPG or PNG (unless you know they're 256 colors or less, in
which case you can choose GIF as well). You should be able to create a batch
which will convert them all.

In SuperCard, you can create an SC script that will use the "export
pictureData" command:

  export pictureData of  to jpeg file 

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

- Original Message -
From: "cowhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:13 AM
Subject: extracting hypercard picts


> This was covered recently, but I've forgotten what the upshot was.
> Appologies.  How does one efficiently extract pictures stored in the
> resource fork of a hypercard project?  How about pictures saved within a
> Supercard project (directly on a card)
> I tried with graphic convertor, but couldn't get it to recognize either
> file type.  Also, Resedit doesn't seem to offer any easy batch export of
> pict images.
> Thanks in advance!
>
> mark mitchell
> Japan
>
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File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution

[Dennis F. Kahlbaum]

I'm new to Revolution (I'm a long-time FORTRAN programmer), and am
having trouble understanding how file input/output, arrays, and
databases work in this package.

Here is some background and my problems/questions:

I've created several complex air pollution modeling programs in
FORTRAN.  I want to use Revolution to act as the GUI interface to and
from these programs.  As a result, Revolution must read and write files
which the FORTRAN programs use or create.  Every line of these files are
of mixed type: character fields, integer number fields, real number
fields, scientific notation fields, etc.  In looking at the Revolution
documentation, it appears that I have to somehow read or write each line
as a string, then somehow parse each field from this string.  So how do
you do this efficiently in Revolution?   Please note that the files
created by the FORTRAN programs are fairly large.

The next question is how are arrays implemented in Revolution?. I've
searched the documentation but haven't found anything.  What I'd like to
do is read in the FORTRAN files, putting the data into Revolution arrays
for display or calculational analysis.  How can this be done?

Finally, I tam interested in the database capabilities of Revolution
(especially the Valentina engine).  I'd like to read in the data from
the FORTRAN files and directly put them into a database so that
information can be searched, manipulated, calculated. etc.  How can this
be done?

I realize these are complex questions. But the use of Revolution for
this project hinges on how well this can be done with the package.

Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Dennis F. Kahlbaum
University of Michigan


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Re: Hi , greeting etc.

[Rob Cozens]

>a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line,
>but, nothing better than a bit of paper)

Hi miock,

If you crave printed documentation for the underlying engine & 
scripting syntax (but not the UI),  MetaCard Corp. offers a printed 
MetaCard Users Guide.  I find it to be a helpful reference.  With 
that and your HyperTalk experience, all you'll need to do is master 
the UI.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Problem with modification dates

[Tim]

Hi,

I have two identical stacks on two machines, a Mac OS X and a Win2K. I want
to have a third stack be able to look up the modification date of both
stacks and open the most recently modified stack. The problem is that when I
open the stack which resides on a Mac with PC Revolution and modify it  and
save it, the modification date does not change on a Mac. This is very weird
stuff indeed. Does anyone have a solution?

TIA,

Tim

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Re: hierarchical menus

[Ivers, Doug E]

I didn't get any explanation of how to set up a submenu in the Menu Manager,
so I did it in a script.  Here's what I ended up with:

on createPrefMenu
  -- this is called in preOpenStack
  -- create Preferences menu contents with tab in front of each font name
  --- (to make the font list a submenu)
  -- prerequisite: a button "Preferences" in group "menubar0"
  put the fontNames into sysFontList
  put empty into tabFontList
  repeat for each line L in sysFontList
put tab&L&return after tabFontList
  end repeat
  delete char -1 of tabFontList  -- the trailing return
  put "Font"&return&tabFontList into button "Preferences" of group
"menubar0"
end createPrefMenu

Any suggestions for improving this?

-- D





On 3/27/02 8:57 AM, "Ivers, Doug E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can the menu manager be used to create hierarchical menus?  I saw an
> earlier message on this, but it still doesn't seem to work in 1.1.1
> final.
> 
> I'm looking for an example stack in which hierarchical or cascading
> menus are used.  In particular, I want to have a menubar with a
> Preferences menu under which is a Font menuitem under which is a list of
> the available fonts.
> 
> Anyone know of an existing example?  (I haven't looked through all the
> user contribution stacks for this.)  Surely this is not uncommon.
> 
> 
> -- D 
> 
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Hi , greeting etc.

[Michael Foy]

Thanks Jeanne, I'm now over here too :-)




Yet another person join the group, I have been meaning to join this group
for a while

brief CV

name Michael Foy
I have been an alcoholic (whoops wrong group) Mac user since 1984, Loved
Hertz's HyperCard, agreed with Douglas Adams views of HyperCard, still
think it was the best card programming applications, then owned Supercard
(ah the colour, bliss, oh separate editor player, oh well) still a very nice
program) Ah Revolutions, er, bit confusing, still a very nice program, v
powerful, just a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line,
but, nothing better than a bit of paper)

So long live the revolution and hopefully we have some revolution gurus
here

Is there an easy way to convert HyperCard stacks to revolution?


miock (I know I am a Michael, but there may be other michaels out there with
prior rights to this list, so if you don't mind...)






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Re: capturing video

[Stgecft]

iMovie-free from apple
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Re: extracting hypercard picts

[sims]

>  How about pictures saved within a
>Supercard project (directly on a card)


Is the proj password protected and you have the author's
permission & password to access the picts but you
do not own SuperCard?

I would think that you might be able to just open the
proj in SuperCard...

sims

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Re: Réf. : use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #293 - 13 msgs

[Klaus Major]

Bonjour Pierre,

>
> ***
> L'integrite de ce message n'etant pas assuree sur internet, Natexis
> Banques Populaires ne peut etre tenu responsable de son contenu.
> Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. Si vous
> n'etes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le detruire et
> d'avertir l'expediteur.
>
> The integrity of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
> Natexis Banques Populaires can not therefore be considered
> responsible for the contents.
> Any unauthorized use or dissemination is prohibited. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this message, then please delete it and
> notify the sender.
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merci beacoup pour cette information importante ;-)

Thanks a lot for this important information ;-)


Humourous greetings from germany...


Klaus Major
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extracting hypercard picts

[cowhead]

This was covered recently, but I've forgotten what the upshot was.
Appologies.  How does one efficiently extract pictures stored in the
resource fork of a hypercard project?  How about pictures saved within a
Supercard project (directly on a card)
I tried with graphic convertor, but couldn't get it to recognize either
file type.  Also, Resedit doesn't seem to offer any easy batch export of
pict images.
Thanks in advance!

mark mitchell
Japan

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