Re: Thinking Inside-out of the Browser

[Jim Lambert]

This relates to the question Bradley Borch recently asked, "Does Rev support
ActiveX controls? " The answer is no. As Jan Schenkel once wrote, "one of
the key things should be to avoid the ActiveX nightmare and keep things as
open and portable amongst platforms as possible."

Macromedia's Director provides half-*ssed support of ActiveX on Windows.
I've sucessfully embedded IE, RealPlayer and WindowsMediaPlayer this way.
There are 3rd-party XTRAs (kinda like our XCMDs) that let you embed a
browser into Win or Mac Director EXEs. Some clever coder could probably
write a Rev external that acted as a shim between Rev and ActiveX controls.
Of course, your app would then be Windows, but if that's all you need...

If Rev's HTML renderer were just a teensy bit more compliant it'd be fine
for displaying simple webpages that had to do double duty - say, within a
Rev app and on a site. That'd work on any platform and be somewhat like a
basic browser within Rev.

Frankly, I'd rather see Rev inside a browser a la shockwave or flash.

Jim Lambert

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Rev math

[curry]

Rather than rounding off neatly, it seems that the end of 
calculations in Revolution that exceed the limit cannot be trusted 
after a certain digit. For example, try in the message box:

+1 (That's twenty two's before the +1)

From trying it out with some operations, it looks like about 16 
digits (whole or decimal) can be trusted. Using the 16th digit as a 
rounder, that would mean 15 digits usable answer.

My question is, can we trust about that number of digits for all 
types of calculations? And are there any plans to change the way 
Revolution handles this?

Thanks,

Curry
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Re: [SC] Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Geoff Canyon]

You know, I got the same hostile reaction from some of the REALbasic 
crowd at the time. Others simply contributed to the wiki.

Responses below:

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 07:37 PM, Chilton Webb wrote:

Hi Geoff,

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 08:50  PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On the Revolution mailing list, on Friday, March 14, 2003, at 06:26 
AM,
Tim Hart wrote:

So now that Supercard 4 is out.  What are your opinions?  I was
reading in MacWorld and they kind of made a stab at Rev for waiting 
so
long to release 2.  I have to say it is funny.  I mean what is the
hold up.  I don't mean to be a jerk but I don't see how they could
possibly miss their original announcement by 4 months of just bug
fixing.  What is going on?
As always happens when a topic like this comes up, there was some
lively debate, a few questions of character, and not much positive
result. When this happened on the REALbasic list last year, I posted a
couple pages on a wiki server with room for opinion. The result was
actually halfway decent, so I've done the same for
SuperCard/Revolution. The home page for discussion is at:
http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/revolutionAndSuperCard
The problem here is that REALBasic's users became apathetic to this 
site a few days after it went live, and Revolution's users did not. 
The arguments became suddenly very one-sided, and still are, to a 
large degree. Furthermore (due to the nature of Wiki, I assume), 
entire sections have been erased to cover up how some people feel 
about the discussion.
It's funny that you say this. The entire history of both pages, 
complete with dates and diff files, is available right there. Unless 
you are accusing me of manipulating the server directly, the entire 
content of _every_ post to those pages is available right now to anyone 
who cares to look. All I ever did was remove the "REALbasic SUX!" 
entries.

If you find a place where I or anyone removed "entire sections," then 
put it back ;-)

I can't help the importance people placed on the debate. There was a 
firestorm on the RB list, and it wasn't the first I had seen, so I put 
up the pages, so that maybe the next time people could just send a 
questioner to the wiki and be done with it.

I have never posted to either list to remind people to update the wiki. 
Until now, that is. I considered cross posting this to the REALbasic 
NUG as well, but it seemed too off-topic for them. The next time 
someone brings up Rev on the RB list if I catch it, I'll point out the 
wiki pages. If you feel the RB crowd needs to be reminded now, then 
post to the RB NUG to do so.

As of right now, there is no shipping version of Revolution that is 
fully compatible with Jaguar. That's the OS that I use on all of my 
systems, and the OS used by all of my clients, and their users. The 
betas do exist, but they are still betas. And no, expecting Mac users 
using Jaguar to set Revolution's UI to use OS9's appearance, is NOT 
acceptable.
Fine, post that to the wiki. That's what it's for. Posting to the 
mailing lists means that someone who shows up tomorrow never sees it.

Once Rev 2.0 actually ships, then this will be a valid discussion. 
Hey, if it sounds like I'm being unfair, keep in mind that until SC4 
actually shipped, the Rev users were saying the same things about the 
SuperCard betas. I'll be glad to compare shipping products to shipping 
products, on the current MacOS. It's just that doing so puts Rev in a 
very unfair place.
How is posting this to the mailing list any better? Either way, you're 
saying that when comparing shipping versions, Rev is inferior. You're 
entitled to your opinion, and there's no reason not to put it on the 
wiki where people have the ability to respond directly instead of 
through a thread.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [SC] Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Alex Rice]

Chilton, I enjoy reading the insights of you old-school xtalk 
developers.

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 08:37  PM, Chilton Webb wrote:

The problem here is that REALBasic's users became apathetic to this 
site a few days after it went live, and Revolution's users did not. 
The arguments became suddenly very one-sided, and still are, to a 
large degree. Furthermore (due to the nature of Wiki, I assume), 
entire sections have been erased to cover up how some people feel 
about the discussion.
The only sections that were erased, that I am aware of (and I didn't do 
the erasing) was a realbasic user that posted something to the effect 
of "stup1d l00zers... revolution developers are just too dumb to use 
any other tool."

As of right now, there is no shipping version of Revolution that is 
fully compatible with Jaguar. That's the OS that I use on all of my 
systems, and the OS used by all of my clients, and their users. The 
betas do exist, but they are still betas. And no, expecting Mac users 
using Jaguar to set Revolution's UI to use OS9's appearance, is NOT 
acceptable.
I don't understand. Do you mean your clients are working with the IDE, 
or with built apps? If the former, then I can see how it would 
uncomfortable saying "erm... you have to select mac os emulated each 
time you launch it, or it will crash". If the latter, IMHO it's not 
that big of a deal.

It has not stopped me from developing in Rev 1.1.1 on OS X, full-time 
for the last 6 months. I would classify Rev 1.1.1's problems with OS X 
as minor inconveniences. There are 3 things I'm aware of:

1) Select Mac OS emulated when I launch Rev IDE (for built apps, 
running Appearance Mgr is fine)
2) Workaround for the shell() command using applescript
3) Rev does not build app bundles, but app bundles are easy to create 
by hand in the Finder.

All in all, Rev is relatively solid for a 1.x product. 'course I'm 
biased because I'm a recovering realbasic user 

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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How to switch out background group images

[Ken Norris]

Howdy,

I have a stack in which part of its UI involves the ability to choose and
load a background group image from a set of image files as a preference. The
images are designed to register precisely with a set of transparent buttons,
and the group set to layer 1. The preference also needs to load a set of
corresponding hilite icons for the buttons.

The idea is to be able to switch images of the background group and hilite
icons.

If I use the standalone to open a regular stack, when I update fields or
write new cards and then save, it will save the background image group too.
I can't figure out how I would clear them and replace them with a different
set.

The question is, if I use a standalone, how do I do it?

Note: One of my ideas was to use the standalone because all we 'd have to do
is to check the preference stack data on startup, pull the saved image name
and import the image to a bg group. It won't save the image when we close,
which is what we want with the images.

However, the problem then arises with how to search, load, and update the
cards from data stacks. Not very convenient.

TIA for any ideas.

Ken N.


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RE: [SC] Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Ken Ray]

> As of right now, there is no shipping version of Revolution that is 
> fully compatible with Jaguar. That's the OS that I use on all of my 
> systems, and the OS used by all of my clients, and their users. The 
> betas do exist, but they are still betas. And no, expecting Mac users 
> using Jaguar to set Revolution's UI to use OS9's appearance, is NOT 
> acceptable.
> 
> Once Rev 2.0 actually ships, then this will be a valid 
> discussion. Hey, 
> if it sounds like I'm being unfair, keep in mind that until SC4 
> actually shipped, the Rev users were saying the same things about the 
> SuperCard betas. I'll be glad to compare shipping products to 
> shipping 
> products, on the current MacOS. It's just that doing so puts Rev in a 
> very unfair place.

True. Keep in mind that the "shipping version" of Revolution is 1.1.1,
which is a year old, and based on the 2.4.1 MetaCard engine. There have
been a couple of significant upgrades to MetaCard since then (2.4.2 and
2.4.3), along with the 2.5 betas. Rev 2.0 will be based on the latest MC
engine (2.5) which brings the solid Jaguar support that MC users have
been enjoying since it came out with 2.4.3 and it's Mach-O format. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

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Re: [SC] Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Richard Gaskin]

Chilton Webb wrote:

> Once Rev 2.0 actually ships, then this will be a valid discussion. Hey,
> if it sounds like I'm being unfair, keep in mind that until SC4
> actually shipped, the Rev users were saying the same things about the
> SuperCard betas. 

How many of them went to the SC list and made their only post in that
community a knock of the host product?

The Read Me for SC 4.0.1 also describes "long-standing" crashing bugs.  This
doesn't mean that Mark Lucas is a slacker, nor does Rev's bugs mean that
they are slackers.  It simply means that both are software products, and
just about all software always has at least a few bugs (and if they have to
deal with Apple's schizoid Carbon API, they may have more than a few ).

I tried to present an opportunity for us all to continue this discussion on
common ground, but thus far your only two posts seem to want to take things
in very different direction.  I can't remember the last time a disparaging
comment was made about SC here.

Meanwhile, I'm using MetaCard and my cross-platform product got the same
rating in MacWorld as SC just a month before (March, p45), so clearly any OS
X problems are easily fixable as soon as Rev updates their engine.

What exactly are you here to contribute?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
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Unwanted tool switch

[Ken Norris]

Hi list

The following is a handler which loads an image, but causes the tool to
switch from Browse tool to Pointer tool. As you see I even put in a command
to switch it to the Browse tool, but it fails to execute, and the thing
switches to the Pointer tool anyway.

on mouseUp
  set the defaultFolder to "Doggies"
  lock screen
  import paint from file "Brandy1.jpg"
  set the layer of image "Brandy1.jpg" to 2
  unlock screen
  choose browse tool
end mouseUp

What should I do?

TIA,
Ken N.

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Re: [SC] Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Chilton Webb]

Hi Geoff,

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 08:50  PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On the Revolution mailing list, on Friday, March 14, 2003, at 06:26 AM,
Tim Hart wrote:
So now that Supercard 4 is out.  What are your opinions?  I was
reading in MacWorld and they kind of made a stab at Rev for waiting so
long to release 2.  I have to say it is funny.  I mean what is the
hold up.  I don't mean to be a jerk but I don't see how they could
possibly miss their original announcement by 4 months of just bug
fixing.  What is going on?
As always happens when a topic like this comes up, there was some
lively debate, a few questions of character, and not much positive
result. When this happened on the REALbasic list last year, I posted a
couple pages on a wiki server with room for opinion. The result was
actually halfway decent, so I've done the same for
SuperCard/Revolution. The home page for discussion is at:
http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/revolutionAndSuperCard
The problem here is that REALBasic's users became apathetic to this 
site a few days after it went live, and Revolution's users did not. The 
arguments became suddenly very one-sided, and still are, to a large 
degree. Furthermore (due to the nature of Wiki, I assume), entire 
sections have been erased to cover up how some people feel about the 
discussion.

As of right now, there is no shipping version of Revolution that is 
fully compatible with Jaguar. That's the OS that I use on all of my 
systems, and the OS used by all of my clients, and their users. The 
betas do exist, but they are still betas. And no, expecting Mac users 
using Jaguar to set Revolution's UI to use OS9's appearance, is NOT 
acceptable.

Once Rev 2.0 actually ships, then this will be a valid discussion. Hey, 
if it sounds like I'm being unfair, keep in mind that until SC4 
actually shipped, the Rev users were saying the same things about the 
SuperCard betas. I'll be glad to compare shipping products to shipping 
products, on the current MacOS. It's just that doing so puts Rev in a 
very unfair place.

-Chilton

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RE: Thinking Inside-out of the Browser

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

You might want to take a look at LEO.

At this time, only for PC's...

http://www.altuit.com/webs/leo/leobrowser/default.htm

best,

Chipp

Original Message:
-
From: edutec [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:32:54 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Thinking Inside-out of the Browser


How can I get a web page to display inside a Revolution stack?

I can't run a Revolution stack inside a web browser, so I would like to
display web pages inside a Rev stack. My inspiration for this is Richard's
RevNet and NoteTaker from AquaMinds. You have to try this with NoteTaker to
get a sense of the potential power.

Using the demo (http://www.aquaminds.com/download.jsp), select File > New,
drag and drop any URL, then select View > Web Page Contents. That's it! A
live web page running inside NoteTaker.

Now imagine a template Rev stack preloaded with network management scripts
to make connections, load pages, go back one page, reload current pages, and
the like. It could have a console or floating palette for web navigation.

Imagine this template stack, just for the moment, like an open book. When
the stack is launches, the right side loads a pre-selected live web page. On
the left side is the graphical interface for a specific Revolution project.
For example, if the project is a tutorial on music, then the left page looks
something like the Shakobox.rev stack.

The project works by interacting with web pages, FTP, or other net services.
The user has instant familiarity of web browsing within a Rev stack and the
stack author is able to leverage internet resources to complement the
particular project.

Thus, one can focus on the content of a project with the relative ease of
Transcript without concern for dHTML. That's not only thinking outside the
browser, its putting the browser inside the stack.

There would be no need for a browser plug in. The stack doesn't plug into a
browser; the web page displays into the stack. The stack becomes a browser,
albeit simplified.

Now back to my original request, how can I get a web page to display inside
a Revolution stack?

-- Roger Kenyon
__
ThinkLink: http://www.riverwoodpub.com/educatio.htm
Not everything is black & white: some things have to be read.


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mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


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Sounds

[Kurt Kaufman]

"I want to experiment with sounds in a stack but don't know where to 
begin.
Does rev have any built-in sounds other than the beep. Where do you get
sounds and how do you get them into the stack?"

See the transcript dictionary entries for "import" and "play".  You 
would import an existing AIFF, WAV or AU type sound file as an 
audioclip and then play that audioclip.  Alternately, you could use the 
QuickTime player object from which you could reference a sound file (of 
many more types than just those listed above) external to your stack.

If none of the above makes sense to you, first see the "Images and 
Multimedia" section of the Revolution Development Guide.

Kurt

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Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Geoff Canyon]

On the Revolution mailing list, on Friday, March 14, 2003, at 06:26 AM, 
Tim Hart wrote:

So now that Supercard 4 is out.  What are your opinions?  I was 
reading in MacWorld and they kind of made a stab at Rev for waiting so 
long to release 2.  I have to say it is funny.  I mean what is the 
hold up.  I don't mean to be a jerk but I don't see how they could 
possibly miss their original announcement by 4 months of just bug 
fixing.  What is going on?
As always happens when a topic like this comes up, there was some 
lively debate, a few questions of character, and not much positive 
result. When this happened on the REALbasic list last year, I posted a 
couple pages on a wiki server with room for opinion. The result was 
actually halfway decent, so I've done the same for 
SuperCard/Revolution. The home page for discussion is at:

http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/revolutionAndSuperCard

Right now there isn't much there, but that's the beauty of a wiki: 
_anyone_ can edit the pages. There is no authorization required, no 
permission needed. There are two pages linked from the above URL: one 
for SuperCard's strengths, and another for Revolution's. Feel free to 
browse, and be sure to click the Edit link and add your two cents.

Please be civil. For those unfamiliar with the concept, a wiki is 
supposed to be a polite commons. We get the respect we give. If you're 
curious, here's the current state of the Revolution and REALbasic 
comparison:

http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs/revolutionAndRealbasic

It could stand an update, especially in light of REALbasic 5.0, so if 
you know anything on the subject, dig in there as well.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
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RE: RGB triplet for color names

[Monte Goulding]

>
>
> Does anyone know how to get the RGB color triplet for a given color name?
>
Hello Jim

Along with the various sugggestions you have already had you can use my free
libColor library. It has one public function:

libColor_Convert(pColorReference, pConvertTo, [pConvertFrom])

pConvertFrom is optional as the code can work out what type of color
reference you are using. It can convert to and from all of rev's color
formats and some others.

See sweattechnologies.com/rev for more info.

Cheers

Monte

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Sounds

[Revinfo1155]

I want to experiment with sounds in a stack but don't know where to begin. Does rev have any built-in sounds other than the beep. Where do you get sounds and how do you get them into the stack?

Jack

Re: Thinking Inside-out of the Browser

[Richard Gaskin]

edutec wrote:

> Now back to my original request, how can I get a web page to display inside
> a Revolution stack?

Since we're still in the relatively early phase of the Web, so much content
is interwoven with form that the task of displaying Web pages is daunting.
Only a small handful of organizations have ever attempted it, far fewer have
actually shipped, and I believe none of them are full compliant with the W3C
standards.

Given the many challenges, if the Rev engine attenmpted to do it right they
would need a separate staff just for that one component.  However, it might
be possible to provide hooks for Microsoft's IE object and Apple's HTML
Rendering Library to do most of the work (is there acorollary for Mozilla on
Linux?), but even that far simpler approach has many challenges, not the
least of which would be ensuring that all the required components are
installed properly.  I'll leave it to Kevin to tell is if or when thsat's on
the priority list.

In the meantime I've been using the browser as a helper app for displaying
Web pages, and use the Rev-based app for everything else.

Net-deliverable media seems to be migrating toward what could be called
"formless content", initially driven by the demands of wireless handheld
devices.  SOAP, RDF, RSS, XMSG, WML, SMIL, etc. are relatively simple
XML-based content containers, leaving the presentation of the content up to
the client device -- in our case, Rev (SMIL is a bit of an exception but
since SMIL 1.0 can be easily displayed in a QT player object it's worth
mentioning).

I'm writing an RSS library, initially designed as part of WebMerge 2.3 but
in the interest of the community some form of it will likely be available
for free use by Rev developers, along with a newsfeed database and viewer to
demomonstrate how to work with the RSS spec (if I get time I'll add a simple
RSS generator that will create a summary feed for any site).

RSS and other RDF-based formats are a good place to start thinking about
ideal scenarios for applying Rev's unique strengths (http, ftp, ISO 8859-1
translation, rapid on-the-fly contruction of objects) and weaknesses (CSS
and JavaScript wpould be close to impossible to implement fully in
Transcript alone).

Lots of good RDF info can be found here: 

You may also find this intriguing -- note the use of the "card" metaphor:

  Decks and Cards

  WML pages are often called "decks". A deck contains a set
  of cards. A card element can contain text, markup, links,
  input-fields, tasks, images and more. Cards can be related
  to each other with links. 


:)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
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Re: wondering about widgets

[Alex Rice]

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 01:13  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Win and Lunix/UNIX are emulated.  Win uses the Win95 appearance 
standards,
and Linux/UNIX uses Motif.

I'm told that there's an interest in supporting native appearances on
Windows XP, but do not know the satus -- Kevin?
Do you mean emulating whatever Windows theme is selected by the user in 
WinXP? That sounds cool. If you mean actually linking to the API and 
doing native widgets on XP- yikes - by the time it's finished, 
Microsoft will have introduced it's new application frameworks and it 
will be deprecated. Better to keep it emulated.

With the many varied APIs among window managers in UNIX, it seems 
unlikely
Rev will be able to hook into them gracefully until they standardize.
Yeah... on the UNIX side it would be good to emulate KDE and GNOME, 
since those seem to be the two main desktop standards now. A lot of 
younger UNIX users, Linux users, probably don't even know what Motif is!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Thinking Inside-out of the Browser

[edutec]

How can I get a web page to display inside a Revolution stack?

I can't run a Revolution stack inside a web browser, so I would like to
display web pages inside a Rev stack. My inspiration for this is Richard's
RevNet and NoteTaker from AquaMinds. You have to try this with NoteTaker to
get a sense of the potential power.

Using the demo (http://www.aquaminds.com/download.jsp), select File > New,
drag and drop any URL, then select View > Web Page Contents. That's it! A
live web page running inside NoteTaker.

Now imagine a template Rev stack preloaded with network management scripts
to make connections, load pages, go back one page, reload current pages, and
the like. It could have a console or floating palette for web navigation.

Imagine this template stack, just for the moment, like an open book. When
the stack is launches, the right side loads a pre-selected live web page. On
the left side is the graphical interface for a specific Revolution project.
For example, if the project is a tutorial on music, then the left page looks
something like the Shakobox.rev stack.

The project works by interacting with web pages, FTP, or other net services.
The user has instant familiarity of web browsing within a Rev stack and the
stack author is able to leverage internet resources to complement the
particular project.

Thus, one can focus on the content of a project with the relative ease of
Transcript without concern for dHTML. That's not only thinking outside the
browser, its putting the browser inside the stack.

There would be no need for a browser plug in. The stack doesn't plug into a
browser; the web page displays into the stack. The stack becomes a browser,
albeit simplified.

Now back to my original request, how can I get a web page to display inside
a Revolution stack?

-- Roger Kenyon
__
ThinkLink: http://www.riverwoodpub.com/educatio.htm
Not everything is black & white: some things have to be read.


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Re: wondering about widgets

[Richard Gaskin]

Alex Rice wrote:

> On Mac OS, clearly it has the "Appearance Manager" option which is
> drawing native widgets. Also the text smoothing is clearly native MacOS
> stuff. On Mac there's the Emulated Mac OS. Emulated Windows, Emulated
> UNIX.
> 
> On Win32- are those native widgets or emulated?
> 
> On Linux/Unix- are the widgets emulated, or are Rev apps linked with
> Motif, KDE, GTK or something to draw native widgets?

Win and Lunix/UNIX are emulated.  Win uses the Win95 appearance standards,
and Linux/UNIX uses Motif.

I'm told that there's an interest in supporting native appearances on
Windows XP, but do not know the satus -- Kevin?

With the many varied APIs among window managers in UNIX, it seems unlikely
Rev will be able to hook into them gracefully until they standardize.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

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Re: RGB triplet for color names

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On  Sat, 15 Mar 2003 Jim Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> Does anyone know how to get the RGB color triplet for a given color name?
>
> For example the Color Names window shows ForestGreen to be 34,139,34
>
> How would I get those numbers programmatically, that is without going
> through the Color Names window?
>
> That is
>
> Put theRGB("ForestGreen") into theForestGreenTriplet
>
> Or whatever.
>
> Much appreciated,
>
> Jim
>

Hallo Jim,

You have first to set the backcolor of a - preferably hidden - control
to the colorname and then retrieve the RGB value by means of the
backpixel property. There was a short discussion on this list about such
questions at the beginning of last December.

One possibility: Write a "ColorToRGB" handler and create a field
"hiddenfield"

"on colorToRGB which
  set the backcolor of fld "hiddenfield" to which
  get the effective backPixel of fld "hiddenfield"
  set the backPixel of field "Hiddenfield" to it
  put the  backcolor of fld "Hiddenfield"  into anyColorVar
end colorToRGB"

then use this handler anywhere in your scripts

on mouseup
 ColorToRGB cyan # or whatever colorname you want to convert
 put anyColorVar" # or do whatever you like with anyColorVar
end mouseup

If you use both handler in a single script put "local anyColorVar" at
the top of the script. If you put the "colorToRGB" handler elsewhere,
maybe into the card script, you have of course to declare global
variables (Excuse me if I am being redundant here).

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke


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wondering about widgets

[Alex Rice]

I'm curious how Rev displays it's widgets on various platforms.

On Mac OS, clearly it has the "Appearance Manager" option which is 
drawing native widgets. Also the text smoothing is clearly native MacOS 
stuff. On Mac there's the Emulated Mac OS. Emulated Windows, Emulated 
UNIX.

On Win32- are those native widgets or emulated?

On Linux/Unix- are the widgets emulated, or are Rev apps linked with 
Motif, KDE, GTK or something to draw native widgets?

Thanks,

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: RGB triplet for color names

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 8:25 AM -0800 3/15/03, Jim Hurley wrote:
>Does anyone know how to get the RGB color triplet for a given color name?

Here's a way that relies on a trick discovered by (if I remember correctly)
Ken Ray:

function RGBFromColorName theColor
  if theColor is not a color then return "Error: not a color"
  -- create a temporary object for the color transformation:
  create invisible button
  if the result is not empty then return "Error"
  set the backgroundColor of last button to theColor
  -- transform the color using the backgroundPixel trick:
  set the backgroundPixel of last button to \
  the backgroundPixel of last button
  -- the button's backgroundColor is now RGB:
  get the backgroundColor of last button
  delete last button -- don't need the temp object any more
  -- the create command automatically chose the pointer
  -- tool, so change it back:
  send "choose browse tool" to me in 10 milliseconds
  return it
end RGBFromColorName

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/


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Re: field text leading-text height

[Sannyasin Sivakatirswami]

FYI option to set the field text leading "fixed, height" seems to be 
missing in the pre-Beta 4 field properties.

Also, I know it is not "officially" a button property but I have used 
the text height property for buttons also and it really helps in 
getting the text of the button name nicely aligned vertically. Can you 
add that to button properties?

On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 03:18  AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

Is up at http://www.runrev.com/revolution/previews/

This is the last pre-beta before beta.  We have Mac Classic / X and 
Windows
built, Linux to follow.

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
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RGB triplet for color names

[Jim Hurley]

Does anyone know how to get the RGB color triplet for a given color name?

For example the Color Names window shows ForestGreen to be 34,139,34

How would I get those numbers programmatically, that is without going 
through the Color Names window?

That is

Put theRGB("ForestGreen") into theForestGreenTriplet

Or whatever.

Much appreciated,

Jim
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Establishing a Secure Connection

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi all,

How do you establish a secure connection over the Internet from within a
standalone?

Valetia


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re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Tuviah M Snyder]

>Remember, SuperCard is not xplatform, so it only has 1/2 the problems to
>account for, and it's been a long time since the last upgrade. OTOH, I
still
>wish Supercard the best. There's still room at the table.
Well Rev does support Unix. There are also a number of mac technologies
such as using QT to display all images that can't be used if it is to
remain ' write once, and run anywhere'. At least we are not as bad a Java
though, and you don't suffer because of it (ie. lowest common
denominator). We are continually adding those platform specific
technologies that people need. We are also not at the mercy of any one
technology. For example the XML stuff was not implemented using Apple's
or Microsoft's new XML parsers but by wrapping classes around a widely
available, standard and popular XML library. I don't think it's any
wonder that Apple has used KHTML in creating Safari.

JavaScript is nice, it's typeless, supports some sort of OOP, but hell to
debug with (at least it was 2 years ago). I remember building web sites
using it, and saying wow-wee look guys the little image is moving up and
down, using a timer!

Tuviah Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
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Re: iTunes-type alternate colored lines in scrolling list field

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi Malte,

> I have been thinking about this for a while and found a solution that works
> for me. Hope I don´t bother you with this, so I post a small report on what
> I did here.

Thanks for sharing this! It's always good to have multiple methods to play
with. :-)

Valetia


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Re: iTunes-type alternate colored lines in scrolling list field

[Malte Brill]

Hi,

Sorry for bringing this up again.
I have been thinking about this for a while and found a solution that works
for me. Hope I don´t bother you with this, so I post a small report on what
I did here.
If you are interested, I can send you the stack off-list.

I created an image in Photoshop Elements. Each bar 14 Pix heigh, 20 bars.
Created a fld in rev. Imported the image, grouped it, checked lock location
and size for the group, moved group behind field, set the opaque of fld to
false. Set the rect of the group to the rect of the field. Set the effective
Textheight to 14 pix.

Put the following into the card Script:

-
global loop,correct,twoLines,skipline

on opencard
  put 1 into loop
  put the effective textHeight of fld "theField"*10 into skipline
  put the effective textHeight of fld "theField"*2 into twoLines
  put skipline into correct
  set the vscroll of fld "theField" to 0
  set the vscroll of grp "theImage" to twolines
end opencard
--

Put the following into the script of the field:

--
global loop,correct,skipline,twolines

on scrollbardrag
  if correct-the vscroll of me<=0 then
put loop+1 into loop
put loop*skipline into correct
  end if
  if the vscroll of me+skipline-correct<0 then
put loop-1 into loop
put loop*skipline into correct
  end if
  put the vscroll of me+skipline-correct+twoLines into groupScroll
  set the vscroll of grp "theImage" to groupScroll
end scrollbardrag
---

Typed send opencard to this card in the messagebox to initialize.

This works pretty well in 1.1.1 even though it needs a bit extra scripting,
if you want to set the vscroll of the field via script.

It looks a bit cheesy on PreBeta 4.
(Seems like in PB4 <= is only treated as < and the = part gets lost.)

The fld should not heigher as half the height of the image-2*the effective
textheight (as 2 lines are added to get rid of the cheesy vscroll=0
position)

I guess all of you allready have a satisfying solution, but I wanted to
share this with you.

Regards,

Malte

 

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Re: Supercard vs. Rev

[Heather Williams]

> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:06:58 -0600
> Subject: Re: Supercard vs. Rev
> From: Chilton Webb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

> 
>> Richard Gaskin responded:
>> I'm confident that as a long-time xTalker you recognize, as Mark Lucas
>> himself has said, that it's valuable for all xTalk products to support
>> others in different niches.  As long as your question is motivated by a
>> sincere interest in using Rev 2.0 I'm sure no one here would accuse
>> you of
>> being a "jerk".
> On list, this is probably true. Off list, I'm sure he's received about
> as many flames as I have the few times I've posted anything that puts
> Rev in a bad light. Apparently I'm everything from a 'typical Mac
> (expletive deleted)', to a SuperCard Bigot. Hopefully he'll make off a
> bit better.

Hi Chilton. Welcome. If you've been lurking on this list for so long, you
must have some idea by now of it's ethos. I have no control over what is
said off list. I could wish that everyone would get along in tolerance and
harmony, but this is the real world, people have egos, agendas, and
opinions, all of which they are entitled to.

However, by virtue of being appointed listmom, I do have some control over
what is said onlist. This type of personal discussion is definitely not
welcome, and not part of the remit of this list. We are here to discuss
Revolution. This can encompass discussing other tools, even competing tools,
I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is the kind of
post that makes personal remarks about people, does not advance the cause of
anybody's programming abilities, and is likely to cause a flame war on list.
I object to flame wars on list.

So please, by all means post to the list. If you have useful comparisons to
make with SuperCard, make them. If you have comments on programming style,
syntax, the future of xTalk... Great. Personal remarks, please keep off
list. 
> 
>> Thus far the shift from Rev 1.x to 2.0 is moving faster than SC 3.x to
>> 4.0,
>> so any problem lies more with Rev's rush to announce ship dates
>> prematurely
>> than any actual engineering issue.
> This is true, but there are fewer underlying issues they're faced with
> as well (Raney gets to handle the heavy lifting on the engine), so this
> is likely entirely due to making sure the bugs are worked out. Always a
> good thing, in my book.

This is not entirely an accurate statement. Runtime work very closely with
Scott Raney. We have an engineer entirely dedicated to working on the
engine.

> 
>>> Chilton Webb said...
>>> I believe it's a difference in the demands of the users. Because SC
>>> has
>>> been around so long, if SC4 shipped with *any* major bugs, it would be
>>> seen a major failure on the part of the SuperCard team, so the
>>> development cycle for this version was considerably longer than I
>>> think
>>> anyone hoped it would be. But the finished product was worth the wait.
>>> 
>>> SC's installed user base is not as tolerant of the development team's
>>> mistakes as users are on this list.
>> Richard Gaskin responded:
>> I think you may be underestimating the supportiveness of the SC
>> community:
>> searching for "bug" in the SC list archives brought up a few hundred
>> messages, and the conversations there seemed very friendly and
>> supportive of
>> Mark Lucas' excellent work.
> Yes, but had he shipped SC4 with a bug that crashed everything under
> Jaguar, he'd never hear the end of it. Right now, there is not a
> shipping version of Revolution that is entirely safe in Jaguar, unless
> you can work with the old-style MacOS appearance for things.

Which does render it safe under Jaguar. So you can work with that operating
system, as well as Windows, Linux and Unix systems. We don't have the luxury
of putting one operating system first and making everything perfect only on
that one system. That said, 2.0 will eliminate this particular problem.
> 
>> One nice thing about this community is that posts related to other
>> tools are
>> never filtered out, so sincere posts with information useful to the
>> readers
>> here are always welcome.
> I'd question your use of the word 'welcome' here. This list is just as
> bad about flaming people as any other I've been on, the main difference
> is that the flames are kept off-list.

See remarks above... I guess if someone posts something controversial to the
remit of this list, they can expect to get responses to it. All I can do is
ensure the war does not take over the function of this list which is, as I
said, to discuss Revolution.

> Which is probably a good thing.
> But I've seen a few Rev users flamed by their own, for lesser things
> than pointing out the 4 month slip in the 2.0 release date.

Guys. We are as aware as anyone of the slip in release date. We could
scarcely have overlooked it. Every morning I field messages in my inbox
inquiring about the release date for 2.0. What can I tell you? We will ship
2

Checking for an Internet Connection

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi all,

What would be a good way to check if a user is currently connected to the
Internet, that doesn't rely that specific web sites be online?

Valetia

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