Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Mark Brownell]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 08:31  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 05:56  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

You can use the DES-derived scheme built in for script encryption in 3
lines:

I meant to mention something about DES 56 bit key length... Anyway it has been bragged about by some crackers that some weak uses (less than 40 bit key lengths) can be cracked in under ten minutes by someone that knows how to attack it. I guess a few words regarding use might be more to the point. Even if your secret source code in your commercial application were cracked there are better protection resources, at least in America that is. The Millennial Copyright Act offers legal protection for anyone that circumnavigates the intended protection built into a software application that was intended not to be copied or that its source code was designed not to be freely distributable. It's a crime, not just a civil matter that would be enforced in a lawsuit. 

My need for encryption is to protect content like copyrighted intellectual property rights. I feel that the password protected stacks in RunRev is adequate for what it does.

Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Mark Brownell]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 05:56  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

You can use the DES-derived scheme built in for script encryption in 3
lines:

Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Mark Brownell]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 05:26  PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


If you are in the process of implementing AES encryption in Rev why don't you contact them off-list to see what the official plans are for stronger encryption?  If they are not going to be implementing stronger encryption in the near future, they may be interested in working with you to incorporate your plans into Rev.

Regards,
Bernard

Hi Bernard,

In regards to my own expertise, one would have to consider what I might have learnt after just two days of looking into the world of Cryptography. What I know so far is that I can get what I need from Blowfish; if what I understand is the way Blowfish encrypts data, then I will be able to have stronger than AES 128 bit encryption.


"Blowfish is a symmetric block cipher that can be used as a drop-in replacement for DES or IDEA. It takes a variable-length key, from 32 bits to 448 bits, making it ideal for both domestic and exportable use. Blowfish was designed in 1993 by Bruce Schneier as a fast, free alternative to existing encryption algorithms. Since then it has been analyzed considerably, and it is slowly gaining acceptance as a strong encryption algorithm. Blowfish is unpatented and license-free, and is available free for all uses."


The Valentina database uses the blowfish method of encryption but I'm not sure of any restrictions on the key length that might have been implemented by the Valentina Kernel; I'm looking into this as well. I don't have a pro-license for RunRev so I can't test the Valentina solution. I can't even test the Blowfish algorithm in RR. I'm using the free RR version until I can afford the small-business and then pro versions of RunRev. I'm on disability. My resources are so limited that it takes a long time to save up for  things like this. That is one of the reasons that I'm checking the documentation first to see if this is the way to proceed. If I ever get a version that allows me to test longer than 10 line scripts then I will make the Blowfish stack for RR that encrypts, saves files as encrypted binaries, and decrypts them. That would make a nice contribution to the contributers page at the mother-ship website. I don't see a problem with giving it away. After all it is already available in several different programming languages for free; thanks to Bruce Schneier and others that worked on it.

Mark

Re: how big is the language?

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:

> 1) How large IS the Transcript Language? (number of words the parser
> recognizes + custom Rev stuff) How large is MetaTalk? Doesn't need to be
> exact.
...

Other interesting measurements:

- Number of built-in object types

- Number of properties for each object type

- Number of system messages


And if you want to be snarky:

- Number of supported operating systems

 ;)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Richard Gaskin]

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 07:58 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> It worked out much better in a post from April when I slowed down
>> enough to
>> think about what I was doing. ;)
> 
> Of course!
> 
> BTW, I don't think base64decode cares about the line ends, so you don't
> have to preserve their location or put them back.
> 
> How come you don't get a compile error?

It's not inside a handler.

I just double-checked in v2.5:  made a new object, opened its script.
replaced the default handler with a line of junk, and closed it.  No error.
Not sure why, but it seems happy with it.


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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 07:58 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

It worked out much better in a post from April when I slowed down 
enough to
think about what I was doing. ;)
Of course!

BTW, I don't think base64decode cares about the line ends, so you don't 
have to preserve their location or put them back.

How come you don't get a compile error?

Dar Scott

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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Richard Gaskin]

Dar Scott wrote:

>> -- First we turn it into a single line to avoid runtime script
>> limits:
>> put base64encode(tData) into tData
> 
> I think this puts line breaks at 72 characters.  I think the base64
> standard limits lines to 76 characters.  It should do no harm to remove
> all of them, if a single line is really needed.
> 
>> --- tuck it in a script:
>> set the script of someObject to tData
> 
> Will this generate compile errors?
> 
> Maybe if this is commented with /* */, the script limit would not apply
> and removing line-ends above would not be needed.
> 
>> -- encrypt the scripts of the stack:
>> set the passkey of this stack to "MyPassword"
>> 
>> To retrieve the data you set the password, get the script, and pass it
>> through base64decode.
> 
> And maybe un-comment, if needed.
> 
> I'd like to hear how this works out.

It worked out much better in a post from April when I slowed down enough to
think about what I was doing. ;)

>From the MC list archives:


on SuckUp
  answer file "Select a file:"
  if it is empty then exit to top
  put url ("binfile:"&it) into s
  put compress(s) into s
  -- Convert to ASCII:
  put base64encode(s) into s
  -- Remove returns:
  replace cr with "" in s
  set the script of fld 1 to s
end SuckUp

on SpitOut
  ask file "Name new file:"
  if it is empty then exit to top
  put the script of fld 1 into s
  replace "" with cr in s
  put base64decode(s) into s
  put decompress(s) into s
  set the filetype to "MSIEWAFF" -- I tested with an IE page archive
  put s into url ("binfile:"&it)
end SpitOut


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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 06:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

You can use the DES-derived scheme built in for script encryption in 3
lines:
Interesting idea.

  -- First we turn it into a single line to avoid runtime script 
limits:
  put base64encode(tData) into tData
I think this puts line breaks at 72 characters.  I think the base64 
standard limits lines to 76 characters.  It should do no harm to remove 
all of them, if a single line is really needed.

  --- tuck it in a script:
  set the script of someObject to tData
Will this generate compile errors?

Maybe if this is commented with /* */, the script limit would not apply 
and removing line-ends above would not be needed.

  -- encrypt the scripts of the stack:
  set the passkey of this stack to "MyPassword"
To retrieve the data you set the password, get the script, and pass it
through base64decode.
And maybe un-comment, if needed.

I'd like to hear how this works out.

Dar



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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Richard Gaskin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The data I wanted to protect is not 'top secret', so I didn't need 'industrial
> grade' encryption.  I wanted to prevent someone easily siphoning off the data
> in my application and producing their own version. The data could just as
> easily have been stored in files (in fact, is ultimately required as files),
> but that would have left it open to easy siphoning.

You can use the DES-derived scheme built in for script encryption in 3
lines:

  -- First we turn it into a single line to avoid runtime script limits:
  put base64encode(tData) into tData
  --- tuck it in a script:
  set the script of someObject to tData
  -- encrypt the scripts of the stack:
  set the passkey of this stack to "MyPassword"

To retrieve the data you set the password, get the script, and pass it
through base64decode.

-- 
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[revolution]

Hi Mark,

Just like I am noTranscript expert, I'm no cryptographer either :-)  

The data I wanted to protect is not 'top secret', so I didn't need 'industrial grade' 
encryption.  I wanted to prevent someone easily siphoning off the data in my 
application and producing their own version. The data could just as easily have been 
stored in files (in fact, is ultimately required as files), but that would have left 
it open to easy siphoning. 

Following the suggestions in a thread on this list called "poor man's encrypted data", 
I just loaded the files into custom properties of a stack, and then password-protected 
the stack.  The stack reverses this process and turns the resulting data back into 
files to be served to the browser.  Without knowing more about the encryption provided 
by password-protecting a stack with a password, there is no guarantee of the likely 
difficulty for someone who was determined to get this data out of the stack.  

I do not have to over-worry about protecting this data, as in the final analysis 
anyone who was determined to save each and every one of my data files locally could do 
so on a file by file basis. I just didn't want to make this easy for them.  (If I 
wanted to make it more difficult for them to extract and re-use my data I could use a 
Rev plug-in to display the data from the serving stack - that way they would have to 
hack the encryption or listen on the wire to get the data).

SSL is a planned enhancement to the Rev engine(see http://www.metacard.com/pi5.html).  
That will assist in securing data in transit, but it's not clear that it would enhance 
the encryption of data in stacks.  I am sure that the Rev team have seen the concerns 
about encryption in this list and I'm hopeful that a release in the not too distant 
future will address this.  Something as important as encryption should not be left to 
users to implement for themselves (especially not in a product like Rev that aims to 
facilitate development at the highest level possible).

Some other cross-platform tools such as Rebol have various different encryption 
mechanisms built in, and I think that this should be seen as a priority for Rev too.  
(I know this is the 'use-revolution' list, but it does no harm for us all to be aware 
of the feature-set, costs and difficulties of alternative tools, and it does Runrev no 
harm to be reminded of the feature-set that the competition are offering.)  Other 
tools like iShell and Realbasic do not appear to have any encryption facilities (I 
could be wrong on this - I haven't seen anything to suggest that these are built-in 
like with Rebol).

If you are in the process of implementing AES encryption in Rev why don't you contact 
them off-list to see what the official plans are for stronger encryption?  If they are 
not going to be implementing stronger encryption in the near future, they may be 
interested in working with you to incorporate your plans into Rev.

Regards,
Bernard

>>
I was wondering if you could share the solution you used to add 
encryption to your RunRev server app? I'm bringing the Blowfish 
encryption algorithm over from Lingo(Director). I was hoping to find a 
128 bit AES standard way of encrypting files. My search of the docs 
have produced nothing on this. Did you use Blowfish or some Database's 
internal encryption system to accomplish your task?
<<  

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Using Valentina

[rand valentine]

  Could someone knowledgeable about Valentina help me a bit? I figure I
could try posting these questions to the Valentina list, but since the
readers here know runrev better, I thought I'd try here first.

I am trying to install the xcmd so I can use Valentina, but I am uncertain
about the exact procedure. I'm using Mac OSX.2.6 and Rev 2.0.1

a. Which Valentina XCMD do I use, the one called VXCMD_Carbon_MC or the one
called VXCMD_Macho? What is "Macho"?

b. To install, according to the scant directions in Valentina, you copy the
CODE resource from a specified file into the stack you want to use Valentina
with. I did that.

c. AND you put the XCMD in the same folder as Runtine Revolution.

d. AND the docs say: "For windows and macho versions for new stack, you must
set the "externals" property of your stack to the path of the external." Do
we have to do this? (I tried). And if we do, what is the form of the
externals command?

  Is it: set the externals of this stack to "./VXCMD_Macho"? (this is the
example given in the Valentina docs for an external named "VXCMD_Macho_MC".

  Thank your for any help you can provide.

rand valentine

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RGB values anywhere?

[Roger Guay]

Can anyone tell me how to see the RGB values of colors of an object in 
the Property Inspector in version 2?

Thanks, Roger

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Re: how big is the language?

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 11:51 AM -0700 6/13/03, Chipp Walters wrote:
>1) How large IS the Transcript Language? (number of words the parser
>recognizes + custom Rev stuff) How large is MetaTalk? Doesn't need to be
>exact.

There are about 1400 documented terms in Transcript right now, not counting
synonyms (about 1700 counting synonyms), of which about 160 are not in
MetaTalk.


>2) How large IS/WAS the HyperTalk language? SuperTalk?

SuperTalk I'm not sure about.

HyperTalk 2.2 has about 350 commands, functions, properties, and built-in
messages. (By comparison, Transcript has about 1150 in these categories.)


>3) How large is the 'basic' vocabulary for MetaTalk/Transcript? IOW, how
>many words would a beginner be expected to know?

Well, of course, it depends on how you define "basic". If you ignore all
special-purpose vocabulary (like sockets, XML, speech, and other things
that you need only if you're working in that specific area), maybe 25-50
terms. The basic structures (on, function, end, exit, pass, if/then/else,
repeat), a few commands and operators (put, &, the arithmetic operators,
ask, answer, go, create, delete, sort...) and a few properties.

It depends also on whether you're changing properties via script or in the
properties palettes. For example, if you're changing colors dynamically
you'll need to know those properties and how they interact, but if they're
just set once in the property inspector, you don't really have to know at
first how they're referenced in Transcript.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/


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Re: Merging PPC and OSX revolution folders

[Ben Rubinstein]

Mark Chia wrote:
>> - Revolution 1 (various versions) didn't seem to be bothered if I renamed the
>> 'top-level' app (eg to "Revolution 1.1.1r2"). When beta testing 2.0, it
>> seemed to mess up the Distribution Builder if I did this.  Has this been
>> fixed, or do one or both of the engines insist on being called "Revolution"
>> at the top level of the folder?  (If both, this is clearly going to mess with
>> my cunning plan...)
>
> It will be fine as the OSX engine is acutally called Revolution.app and the
> classic version is Revolution.

Mark,

Thanks for the response, and indeed as you point out they can both live in
the same place.  But meanwhile, has the underlying issue been fixed?  Is
there likely to be a problem, on either or both platforms, if the app is
renamed?

TIA,
 
  Ben Rubinstein   |  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
  http://www.cogapp.com|  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866


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RE: Win-Mac differences

[Ken Ray]

Scott,

It may be that in Windows, the sound is record to RAM and not to disk
and therefore the diskspace wouldn't change... just a thought...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Kinder
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:01 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Win-Mac differences
> 
> 
> Hi Rev Listers,
> 
> This script works on Mac OSX but not on WinXP Pro.  On the 
> Mac, you see the diskspace slowly counting down, on Windows a 
> zero is placed in the spaceremaining field.  Subsequently 
> entering the "put the diskSpace..." line of code into the 
> message box seems to work fine.
> 
> on mouseUp
>   ask file "filename"
>   record sound file it
>   repeat until the mouseclick
> put the diskSpace div (1024^2) into fld "spaceremaining"
>   end repeat
>   stop recording
> end mouseUp
> 
> I tried this in an 'on idle' handler with similar results.  
> Is there a different way to do this on Windows?
> 
> Thanks!
> Scott Kinder
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> 


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Report Object - any docs?

[Barry Levine]

In line with the discussion regarding any alleged shortcomings in the 
docs, perhaps someone can point to the section describing the Report 
Object and its use?

Thanks,
Barry
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Re: GIF Patent Expires - Will RunRev now export???

[Edwin Gore]

Does this mean that Revolution will remove the restriction on writing GIFs out to 
files now

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: :[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:07:16
>
>
>On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 04:35  AM, Scott Rossi
>wrote:
>>
>> This is completely false.
>
>> If displaying GIF images was a crime then every
>Web developer in the 
>> world
>> would be in jail for lack of paying license fees.
>
>
>
>Alex Rice, Software Developer
>Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>___
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>_print
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>tion
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Re: Database Query Builder?

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Marvin Wurth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am building a standalone Revolution frontend
> application for a MySQL
> database.  I would like to use the Database Query
> Builder to build the
> queries and connect the various fields.  I have a
> good handle on how to
> use the Database Query Builder and to set everything
> up.  The problem is
> how do I allow the user to change the database
> connection information
> built by the Database Query Builder in a standalone?
>  The user will have
> to change the Host, User, and Password to match
> their needs.  Is there 
> a way to use the
> revOpenDatabase to open the database ID that will be
> used by the query
> build by the Database Query Builder?  Any
> suggestions or assistance 
> would
> be appreciated.  Thanks.
> 

Hi Marvin,

Here's the deal :  the connection details are stored
per query ; so you'll have to iterate over the
queries, change the connection details and update
everything.

Code snippet :

on UpdateAllDBConnections pDBType, pDBHost,
pDBDatabase, pDBPort, pDBUser, pDBPassword
  put revQueryObjects() into tQueryObjects
  repeat for each line tQuery in tQueryObjects
Update1DBConnection tObject, pDBType, pDBHost,
pDBDatabase, pDBPort, pDBUser, pDBPassword
  end repeat
end UpdateAllDBConnections

on Update1DBConnection pObject, pDBType, pDBHost,
pDBDatabase, pDBPort, pDBUser, pDBPassword
  set the cREVDatabaseQuery["dbtype"] of pObject to
pDBType
  set the cREVDatabaseQuery["dbhost"] of pObject to
pDBHost
  set the cREVDatabaseQuery["dbdatabase"] of pObject
to pDBDatabase
  set the cREVDatabaseQuery["dbport"] of pObject to
pDBPort
  set the cREVDatabaseQuery["dbuser"] of pObject to
pDBUser
  set the cREVDatabaseQuery["dbpassword"] of pObject
to pDBPassword
  revConnectQuery pObject
  revRefreshQuery pObject
end Update1DBConnection

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)

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Re: Document Search Summary

[Mark Talluto]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 08:43 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 03:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I have to agree. The addition of the search plug-in does it for me. 
That was the only thing that I used to wish we had, and now we do. 
Thanks for a great job, Jeanne. I know how much work you put into 
this, and it shows.
Mention of the plugin is worth repeating.  I know I had missed it, 
somehow.  Here is what I have learned of searching the documentation 
in Revolution 2:

...snip

We have asked for search.  We have it in abundance.




Thanks Dar.  This is great information!  I missed it the first time 
around.



Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Reordering line in fields

[Klaus Major]

Bonjour Romain,

Bonjour Romain,

Salut, I have 2 amateurish but effective scripts allowing to move a
list
item up or down when clicking on the appropriate button.
Are you interested ?
Depends on the price :-D

Romain
Best

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.S.
Oh, sorry, i just see that i already got one... ;-)
Sorry, my post arrived too late. Or are you on some kind
of blitzkrieg Klaus?
Only joking...
Jawoll, hurra, hurra, hurra :-D

Romain
Au revoir, mon ami... :-)

Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Database Query Builder?

[Marvin Wurth]

I am building a standalone Revolution frontend application for a MySQL
database.  I would like to use the Database Query Builder to build the
queries and connect the various fields.  I have a good handle on how to
use the Database Query Builder and to set everything up.  The problem is
how do I allow the user to change the database connection information
built by the Database Query Builder in a standalone?  The user will have
to change the Host, User, and Password to match their needs.  Is there 
a way to use the
revOpenDatabase to open the database ID that will be used by the query
build by the Database Query Builder?  Any suggestions or assistance 
would
be appreciated.  Thanks.

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Re: Reordering line in fields

[Romain Lafourcade]

on 13/06/03 15:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Bonjour Romain,
> 
>> Salut, I have 2 amateurish but effective scripts allowing to move a
>> list
>> item up or down when clicking on the appropriate button.
>> 
>> Are you interested ?
> 
> Depends on the price :-D
> 
>> Romain
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus Major
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> P.S.
> Oh, sorry, i just see that i already got one... ;-)

Sorry, my post arrived too late. Or are you on some kind of blitzkrieg Klaus
?
Only joking...

Romain

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Document Search Summary

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 03:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I have to agree. The addition of the search plug-in does it for me. 
That was the only thing that I used to wish we had, and now we do. 
Thanks for a great job, Jeanne. I know how much work you put into 
this, and it shows.
Mention of the plugin is worth repeating.  I know I had missed it, 
somehow.  Here is what I have learned of searching the documentation in 
Revolution 2:

*** Document Search Summary ***

Search All of Documentation--

Take the Revolution IDE menu to [Development] to [Plugins] to [Search 
Revolution Documentation].  This brings up a search window.  Type the 
word or phrase in the field.  Check the check box for the results to 
show surrounding text.  Click the Search button.

The result is a list of both dictionary entries and other documentation 
units that contain the word or phrase.  (I'm sure whether section or 
article or topic is the name of the other document unit; I'll search on 
that later.)

Search Section--

From the section "About the Revolution documentation":

 To search for a topic in the current section:
 Type a word or phrase in the Find box at the top of the window
 and press Return or Enter. Continue pressing Return or Enter
 to search for more topics whose title contains the word.
 To search the full text, hold down the Option key (Mac OS or OS X)
 or Alt key (Unix or Windows).
Search the Transcript Dictionary--

Take the Revolution IDE menu to [Help] to [Transcript Dictionary].  
This takes you to the Transcript Dictionary page of the Revolution 
documentation.  This is the gateway to the Transcript Dictionary 
itself.  This page has three powerful methods to find dictionary 
entries.  If I can't quite remember the name of a property, but I think 
it might have "color" in it, then the "Filter with" method works best 
for me.  Click on the entry name to go to the entry in the Transcript 
Dictionary.

Once in the TD, you can search with the "Find term" field at the top.  
To go directly to a dictionary entry, enter the name of the special 
word and hit return.  To find a particular word in the entire entry 
starting with the current entry (or the last search) hit option-return. 
 Notice that the "Find term" process here is the same as the "Find 
article" (topic?) process above.

While in the script editor control-click (Mac) or right-click (Other) 
in or just before a word to get an abbreviated reminder for that entry. 
 Click on the expanding button in that reminder to see the full entry.  
A typical assignment for the right button on a Mac with a multi-button 
mouse is control-click, so right-click might work.  Right-click will 
work on other systems.  I simply remember "right-click".  This works 
best for single-word entries.



We have asked for search.  We have it in abundance.

Dar Scott









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[OT] Re: list email address security

[Alex Rice]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 02:15  AM, Ken Apthorpe wrote:

As they have got me, it is a sure thing that a torrent of spam from all
directions is about to follow.  So, I expect I will shortly have to 
change
my email address.  I think I may have to unsubscribe first.
It does sound like too much of a coincidence. Anyways, my opinion: It's 
futile to change your email address whenever you get some spam.

1) There are some really good spam filtering tools out there such as 
Spam Assassin, and the Bayesian filtering such as that found in Apple's 
Mail.app. I've had the same email address for 8 years and I get 
literally hundreds of spam per day, but I only see a handful of them 
because I have aggressive spam filtering. Kind of like when I check the 
postal mail at home, I just walk by the wastebasket as a matter of 
habit.

2) Contact your legislators and push for anti-spam laws. Here is the US 
this is gaining momentum. Several states have laws, AOL, MSN and FTC 
have joined the fray.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Merging PPC and OSX revolution folders

[Mark Chia]

>I need to keep Classic version of Revolution, although I'm currently
running
>mostly in OS-X.  A full copy of either is around 37MB.  Is there any reason
>I can't merge the two?

The only reason I can think of is that the documentation is formatted for
OSX and classic. However, if you are using primarily OSX  then just use the
OSX folder and copy the engines over.

>- Revolution 1 (various versions) didn't seem to be bothered if
>  I renamed the 'top-level' app (eg to "Revolution 1.1.1r2").
>  When beta testing 2.0, it seemed to mess up the Distribution
>  Builder if I did this.  Has this been fixed, or do one or both
>  of the engines insist on being called "Revolution" at the top
>  level of the folder?  (If both, this is clearly going to mess
>  with my cunning plan...)

It will be fine as the OSX engine is acutally called Revolution.app and the
classic version is Revolution.

Mark
--
Mark Chia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.

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Re: The Legality of using GIF images ???

[Alex Rice]

On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 04:35  AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
This is completely false.

If displaying GIF images was a crime then every Web developer in the 
world
would be in jail for lack of paying license fees.
http://news.com.com/2102-1032_3-1014236.html?tag=ni_print

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Win-Mac differences

[Scott Kinder]

Hi Rev Listers,

This script works on Mac OSX but not on WinXP Pro.  On the Mac, you see the diskspace 
slowly counting down, on Windows a zero is placed in the spaceremaining field.  
Subsequently entering the "put the diskSpace..." line of code into the message box 
seems to work fine.

on mouseUp
  ask file "filename"
  record sound file it
  repeat until the mouseclick
put the diskSpace div (1024^2) into fld "spaceremaining"
  end repeat
  stop recording
end mouseUp

I tried this in an 'on idle' handler with similar results.  Is there a different way 
to do this on Windows?

Thanks!
Scott Kinder
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Re: 1.1.1 Buttons in 2.0

[Kevin Miller]

On 7/6/03 8:13 am, Emmanuel Companys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I opened a stack created in 1.1.1 in 2.0.  All the buttons that were
>> set as
>> "Standard" appear as if they were 1.1.1's "Rectangle" buttons.  And the
>> "Rectangle" buttons don't have the same appearance as a new rectangle
>> button.  If I delete the original button and create a new one it's
>> fine.
> 
> I described a similar problem in my post "Weird button behavior in 2.0"
> (see below).

Please send me a stack with a button in it that shows this problem, off
list.  Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.

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Merging PPC and OSX revolution folders

[Ben Rubinstein]

I need to keep Classic version of Revolution, although I'm currently running
mostly in OS-X.  A full copy of either is around 37MB.  Is there any reason
I can't merge the two?

AFAICT, the only differences between them are:
- the engine at the top level (both named Revolution)
- the engine inside the components folder (each has the other; with
  the Classic version being named "MacOSFat", the OS-X version
  "Revolution")
- in the OS-X version, the various text files have a ".txt" extension.

Questions:

- are there any other differences I should care about?

- is there any reason I shouldn't simply put both engines at the
  top level of the folder, and both in the "Components" folder?

- Revolution 1 (various versions) didn't seem to be bothered if
  I renamed the 'top-level' app (eg to "Revolution 1.1.1r2").
  When beta testing 2.0, it seemed to mess up the Distribution
  Builder if I did this.  Has this been fixed, or do one or both
  of the engines insist on being called "Revolution" at the top
  level of the folder?  (If both, this is clearly going to mess
  with my cunning plan...)

TIA,

  Ben Rubinstein   |  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
  http://www.cogapp.com|  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866


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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 06:30 PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think it is very far-sighted of him to see that the needless railing 
against the Rev docs can affect other users' perceptions of the 
quality of the docs and the quality of Rev.
I did not see Victor's mail as "needless railing".

He made a simple point that when a user of a manual says he did not 
make the connection, the manual is failing.  I think this is a valid 
point.  I would have put it weaker; the manual writer can take it as a 
data point in considering ways to improve the manual.  For example, I 
imagine Jeanne pays attention to each indication that a user did not 
understand the manual correctly.  (It would be quite appropriate to 
give up on my misunderstandings, though.)  Was this off topic and 
needless?  Perhaps, but it was small and made a reminder that we all 
can benefit from.  Was it harmful?  In isolation it might discourage 
some from using the documentation.  However, I viewed it in the context 
of positive mail concerning the documentation.

I think his comment about style was overstated, but it did encourage 
writers to avoid hiding behind "It is in the manual."  I think the 
situation simply triggered a pet-peeve.  Even though the style 
situation did not match, the soap box was calling.  I think we can be 
tolerant of that and recognize it for what it is.  Doing that, we can 
learn from it and chock it up as part of what is important to Victor.

Victor's mail was short and it was, I think, in isolation.  It was not 
"needless railing".

Let's give him some slack.

Dar Scott

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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Victor Eijkhout]

As a documentation professional,
Hmmm Amateur with delusions of grandeur? (Actually, on my private 
web page you find my main claim to fame.)

surely you recognize the dynamic that
occurs once the meme of "the docs are inadequate" grows legs:
Yeah. Point taken, and apologies for the overly broad generalisation.

Given your experience, what specific remedies would you
recommend?
I haven't started working with version 2 yet, so with the proviso 
that I haven't seen the updated docs: I think a lot of complicated 
systems are complicated partly because of the interactions between 
the parts, not the number of parts or any intrinsic property of them 
as such. Thus I favour a style of explanation where the explanation 
by command/keyword or even by category is secondary to one by topic. 
As an alternative to "topic", think "environment", taking that word 
fairly in the abstract. An environment is only partly a distinct part 
of the system, it is also a mode of working, or a set of common 
idioms to work with. Identifying these topics/environments is a good 
way to bring together conceptually related commands and keywords.

Remember the "I should have made the connection" comment that 
triggered my initial post? I think the big advantage to this approach 
is that you make a number of these connections for the reader. 
Instead of emphasis on desrcribing commands and keywords you get an 
emphasis on describing common "idioms", ready-made connections 
between the commands and keywords. Of course you can't give all 
possible connections in a manual, but giving a number of them gives 
the reader a more operative definition, rather than a dictionary 
definition.

Anyway, that's my opinion as only a some-time tech writer. (Check out 
http://www.eijkhout.net/tbt for my credentials.)
--
Victor Eijkhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 329 Claxton, Comp Sci, UT, 
Knoxville TN 37996.
tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F)
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/
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Re: Reorder Lines in a List Field

[Klaus Major]

Bonjour Romain,

Salut, I have 2 amateurish but effective scripts allowing to move a 
list
item up or down when clicking on the appropriate button.

Are you interested ?
Depends on the price :-D

Romain
Best

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.S.
Oh, sorry, i just see that i already got one... ;-)
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Re: invisible text flashing pointer

[Emmanuel Companys]

Le jeudi, 12 juin 2003, à 06:24 Europe/Paris, Sarah a écrit :

This happens when the field is overlapped by part of a group. Jut make 
sure it is in front of any groups that occupy the same space, and the 
flashing cursor will come back.
Thank you.

Richmond Mathews had already got me ou of this mess.

Ecuse the extra noise: not missing this may prevent people to keep  
wondering what happens... ;-)

Manuel
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Loophole in RR 2 Documentation ???

[Mathewson]

Found it at last:

About object types and object references:
Images can display data in GIF, JPEG, PNG, BMP, XWD, XBM,
XPM, PBM, PGM, or PBM formats.  On Mac OS and OS X systems,
PICT files can also be displayed (but they cannot be
displayed on Unix or Windows systems).

How was I to know that when looking for IMAGE FORMATS I had
to search under OBJECT TYPES?  How is anybody to know?

What a pain in the PBM.

Richmond Mathewson
---
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---
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Re: invisible text flashing pointer

[Sarah]

This happens when the field is overlapped by part of a group. Jut make 
sure it is in front of any groups that occupy the same space, and the 
flashing cursor will come back.

Cheers,
Sarah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.troz.net/Rev/
On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 01:35  pm, Emmanuel Companys wrote:

In some unlocked flds the flashing vertical line showing the insertion 
point, when you click with the I cursor, does not show up any more; 
and I can't get it back. The fld works normally: I can type and 
select, but I miss the flashing line showing  the user in which fld he 
is supposed to type.

This has already happend using 1.1.1 and 2.0, as well. The only fix I 
have found is to create a new fld, and hope it will not do the same 
sooner or later.

Any idea of what it's going on?

Manuel


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The Legality of using GIF images ???

[Mathewson]

Thank you very much Scott Rossi.

I have just uploaded an improved version of my Custom
Cursors stack that demonstrates
how to create cursors without GIF images.

Richmond Mathewson
---
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 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
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Re: The Legality of using GIF images ???

[Scott Rossi]

On 6/13/03 9:56 AM, "Mathewson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yesterday a friend of mine told me that it was unwise to
> use GIF images in any sort of software (even freeware) as
> the Compuserve people would be after my blood.
> 
> I don't know if this is true.

This is completely false.

If displaying GIF images was a crime then every Web developer in the world
would be in jail for lack of paying license fees.

At issue can be building an application that can *create* or *export* GIF
images (a la Photoshop, FireWorks, etc).  Unless you are developing an app
to save GIF images, there is no issue.

Related: I've *heard* that the statute of limitations on the GIF format is
coming near its end, so maybe all the licensing stuff will fall by the
wayside soon.  In the meantime, PNG is an excellent format to work with, if
not completely compatible with old technology (browsers, etc).

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Thursday, Jun 12, 2003, at 23:00 Europe/Vienna, Emmanuel Companys 
wrote:

As for my friend I am not sure I will be able to contact him before 
the fall. I was planning just to send him your stacks, for him to play 
with. I thought he could be interested in using theml; but late I 
realized that they are more english than general phonetics.
If he, or somebody else in Toulouse would like to use tem I'll let you 
know first.

Добра вечер

[  By the way, do you receive my Unicode "bulgarian":words? I am 
taking a paent for them! ]
Yes, good night...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps?
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
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Loophole in RR 2 Documentation ???

[Mathewson]

When double-clicking on 'image formats' (Development
Guide)no new window with that information appears - nothing
for Paint Tools, Image Types or Database Types.

Richmond
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The Legality of using GIF images ???

[Mathewson]

Yesterday a friend of mine told me that it was unwise to
use GIF images in any sort of software (even freeware) as
the Compuserve people would be after my blood.

I don't know if this is true.

I would be very grateful for any feedback on this one!

Meanwhile I am going to start fooling around with TIFF
files

Richmond Mathewson
---
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How to 'Get' Richmond's phonetic programs

[Mathewson]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 07:09 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Download the stack files and build standalones for the
> platform of your choice.
>
> Dead easy!

I think I missed something or I'm being very dense this
week.

What is the URL?

Dar Scott
---
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html

Be there, or be square!

Love, Richmond Mathewson
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Re: list email address security

[Ken Apthorpe]

A word of caution to all you Rev-heads ...

I've read posts about the list/archive security of email addresses.  After 8
months of spam-free bliss my current email address has suddenly been found
by the Nigerian  spammers. At last my financial future is assured, gravy train
here I come 

I realise it may be pure coincidence that they found me about a week after I
joined the list (which is the only one I have subscribed to with my current
address).  They may well have got me from some other source. But I can't
help but note the coincidence.

As they have got me, it is a sure thing that a torrent of spam from all
directions is about to follow.  So, I expect I will shortly have to change
my email address.  I think I may have to unsubscribe first.

Take care
Ken

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Re: Reorder Lines in a List Field

[François Cuneo]

> Salut, I have 2 amateurish but effective scripts allowing to move a list
> item up or down when clicking on the appropriate button.
> 
> Are you interested ?
> 
> Romain
Salut Romain!
Thank you but I have written this scipts myself vith the Klaus's Help:-)
Friendly
Terrible de devoir s'écrire en anglais non?:-)
François

-- 
François Cuneo
Site Web dédié au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: External SDK

[Thierry Arbellot]

Thanks Brian,

It does work well :-).

Thierry

On Friday, Jun 13, 2003, at 00:11 Europe/Paris, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Starting with OS X on MacOS you need to set the "externals" property, just as on Windows/Linux/UNIX systems.

For example:

on mouseUp
   answer folder "Please select your external bundle"
   set the externals of this stack to it
end mouseUp

Note that you can use relative paths also, just as with images and movies.
Also, the "externals" property can contains multiple paths, one per line.

HTH

Brian

Now, I want to use Rev 2 on OS X.
I have built the external bundle, but then what do I do with it ?
How to make it work with the stack or a standalone in Rev 2.0 ? I can't
find any tutorial for OS X.







--
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
www.QLDLearning.com

PH: (904)-997-0212
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---