Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[xbury . cs]

Derek

see my previous post. Using the save adds about 4 seconds time to the save
procedure... it's faster when sending a save this stack command through a 
button
or the msg...

cheers
-=-
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




"Derek Bump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26.05.2004 16:59
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
To: "How to use Revolution" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

.


> Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
> at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?

I just want to make sure on this comment.  Are you talking about the delay
when the "Save" dialog appears?

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com


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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "MisterX" wrote:

> I didnt' say I was using any autosaving stack feature.
> I wrote one into the stack script. I forgot about it
> and noticed that the environment was really slowing
> down while editing simple things in the stack...
> 
> Put this script into a stack to have a pseudo auto-save
> 
> on suspendstack
> save this stack
> end suspendstack
> 
> go back and forth to the revproperty palette or any Rev palette
> and you'll see the messages activating the suspendstack and
> the autosave... and slowing things down...

Here's a novel idea: take the script out and see if Rev speeds up.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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RE: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[MisterX]

Sarah,
> 
> > Tracking it down wasn't much help because the message
> > watcher threw me off thinking the problem was the TableManager
> > (sorry Jan)... Besides the fact that the message watcher is nearly
> > useless, it throws in all the RR's messages to confuse you and
> > doesn't tell you where the message came from... The more stacks
> > or windows (scritp editors for ex.) you open, the more messages you
> > get to confuse you...
> Click the Suppress button in the Message Watcher and you have all sorts 
> of options for telling the Message Watcher what messages to ignore. 
> When a line appears, select it to see where it came from.

I did try that but there is no source for the RR events... There
not hard to find though... 

> > Anyway, my stack was really slow all the time and the problem was
> > untraceable... Then I noticed that a message suspendstack was
> > saving the stack at each suspendstack... Nothing wrong there
> > except that whenever I went to the revprops or revtools or revmenu
> > palette, my stack would get a suspendstack event!!

> It seems to me that you would have a lot more cause to complain if 
> going to a different stack did NOT send a suspendStack message! 
> However, if your save stack routine is causing you problems, that may 
> be due to your saving method. If you are using the internal "revSave" 
> handler either in a script or by calling the Save menu item directly, 
> it throws up a dialog box telling you what has been saved. 

I wasn't using those. They're very slow...

> This box 
> stays open for 2 seconds but you can of course edit the script for that 
> if you want. If you use the simpler "save this stack", you will not get 
> the dialog and saving should be so fast as to be undetectable. The 
> disadvantage is that it does not compact the stack so if you have been 
> adding or deleting lots of objects, you should do a menu save every now 
> & then.

but thanks for the tip...

> > Since RR is ultra slow, ultra-cpu-hog, I couldn't be get more and
> > more irritated... On a 2.8 MHz P4 512MBs, this is a shame, and
> > a real bummer for productivity...
> >
> > Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
> > at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?
> >
> > IS THAT NORMAL?
> >
> > This is NOT normal behavior and I believe we are all affected!
> No it is not normal and no we are not all affected. I think you are 
> blaming Rev for something that you have added as the default 
> installation of Rev is not "ultra slow" and is not an "ultra-cpu-hog". 
> Check what stacks you have in use and whether you have added an front 
> or back scripts. Something you are doing is causing this lack of 
> performance and leading to your frustration. I have numerous plugins 
> running constantly, both my own, Rev's and those contributed by others 
> and I have none of these problems.

I dont use any plugs or front/backscripts yet...

See my previous message response with the suspendstack
script. It's not a problem per say, true but it is a problem
when implemented where the RR events cause a serious slow down
each time you edit an object feature via a Revpalette and a
suspendstack message is sent to your stack... 

Should the suspendstack be sent to the stack each time you edit an
object causing a save? One missing feature (no blame anywhere) is 
the function stackwaschangedsincelastsave()=true|false... The other
is that the suspendstack should be ignored while in the GUI design
mode of RR...

Thanks for the help though
Xavier
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RE: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[MisterX]

Richard,

I didnt' say I was using any autosaving stack feature. 
I wrote one into the stack script. I forgot about it
and noticed that the environment was really slowing 
down while editing simple things in the stack...

Put this script into a stack to have a pseudo auto-save

on suspendstack
  save this stack
end suspendstack

go back and forth to the revproperty palette or any Rev palette
and you'll see the messages activating the suspendstack and 
the autosave... and slowing things down...

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 20:51
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)
> 
> 
> MisterX wrote:
> 
> > that was a hypothetical estimate in favor of RR's engine ;)
> > 
> > Given the astronomical speeds of the systems we have (overblown IOWs)
> > the whole operation should not take 1 second! But consider that when
> > you save the hilitedlines get deselected too... If you do type
> > save this stack in the messagebox instead of control-s it does take
> > less than 1 second on an overloaded 1.8MHz... So why waste this time
> > on the dialog...
> > 
> > Sounds like a bugzilla suggestion!
> 
> I'm still not clear on why it's auto-saving at all.  If there are no 
> plugins doing that, what is?  Auto-saving is not a normal behavior for 
> the Rev IDE.
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___
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Re: Script not accepting empty line

[Sarah Reichelt]

I don't know if this will help in your case, but as a general rule, 
using a "repeat for each" loop is much faster. If you are only dealing 
with 10 lines, it won't really matter, but you may deal with more data 
later
This script will add data to lines 1 to 10 but then when lines are 
emptied only line 10 will fill back up.

on Add_New
repeat with x = 1 to 10
if line x of variable is empty then
Add some data to the line here
end repeat
end Add_New
This returns true, and is the exact line (minus the if) from the above 
code!??
answer (line x of variable is empty)

Here is an example - untested but should be right or nearly so :-)
on newAddNew
  put empty into newVariable
  repeat for each line L in variable
if L is empty then
  -- insert the new data in place of the empty line
  put newData & cr after newVariable
else
  put L & cr after newVariable
end if
  end repeat
  delete last line of newVariable  -- extra cr
end newAddNew
Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Script not accepting empty line

[Brian Yennie]

Jeremy,
The only thing I can think of is that maybe your adding of data is 
changing line numbers. Do you ever put more than one line worth of data 
into that empty line? If so, that would throw off the count and give 
you confusing results...

HTH
on Add_New
repeat with x = 1 to 10
if line x of variable is empty then
Add some data to the line here
end repeat
end Add_New
This returns true, and is the exact line (minus the if) from the above 
code!??
answer (line x of variable is empty)
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Script not accepting empty line

[Jeremy Smith]

Just recently I noticed a very strange 'bug'(?) in my code that I really 
can't figure out There is a repeat script that checks each line of a 
variable to see if it is empty, if it is then add data to that line. Certain 
events will empty a random line (so line 2 would be empty but lines 1,3,4,5 
etc.. are full).

The script doesn't recognise the line as empty though, but if I copy the 
exact line and put answer in front of it in the message box I get back 
"True"... Why would the messagebox return true while the script returns 
false?

I tried two other methods to check for an empty line, the first was to do an 
if statement and if true was returned for an empty line then continue. That 
didn't work, so I put a check to see if item 1 of the line was empty.. That 
worked!?!

In case the above doesn't make sense here is an example code (I haven't got 
the code with me to paste sorry).

--
This script will add data to lines 1 to 10 but then when lines are emptied 
only line 10 will fill back up.

on Add_New
repeat with x = 1 to 10
if line x of variable is empty then
Add some data to the line here
end repeat
end Add_New
This returns true, and is the exact line (minus the if) from the above 
code!??
answer (line x of variable is empty)

Cheers.
Jeremy.
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Re: Disappearing Stacks! Help!

[John Tenny]

I can't give you any help as I'm another bumbling newish Rever except 
to say a couple of things..

1. I came across many of these "what the hell happend now" instances, 
and they were ALL my doing. The confusion is/was just part of the 
learning curve.

2. This list LOVES to bail out us newbies. I'm sure there are 'newbie 
laugh of the week' tales over an electronic beer or two, but I'm glad 
to bring joy to the world.

3. It does take a little time to get over the first bump, and the hill 
is never ending, but the climb is lot of fun and gets easier as one 
'get's it'.

Peace,
   John
John L. Tenny, Ph.D.
Flowing Thought Educational Solutions
eCOVE: The Observation Toolkit Software
www.ecove.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1-888-363-2683
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Re: Disappearing Stacks! Help!

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi,
It sounds like you have the iconic property set for the stacks. This 
can be set through the Inspector or by script. Check out the docs for 
"iconic" and you will see what is happening.
Cheers,
Sarah

On 27 May 2004, at 9:20 am, Histo Man wrote:
Okay, I've spent several days getting an application put together.  
Nine main screens, fields and buttons in place.

One button in the main stack takes you to a card in a substackused 
to anyway!
Now, the substack appears only as a minimized Icon at the bottom of 
the screen.  Next thing I know, my main stack is also not visible--it 
just stays an icon at the bottom of the screen.

Anyone know how I can persuade the stack to show itself?
I am running the trial version, but I gotta say, if my applications 
keep disappearing I'm not going to buy the thing.  Is this a bug?
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Disappearing Stacks! Help!

[Histo Man]

This is so wierd.  I can see the cards in the application browser.  I can 
print cards.  I can edit their scripts.  What I can't do is see the stack, 
except in the taskbar at the bottom of the screen.  ANy ideas?  I don't want 
to have to start over with this project.

_
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Disappearing Stacks! Help!

[Histo Man]

Okay, I've spent several days getting an application put together.  Nine 
main screens, fields and buttons in place.

One button in the main stack takes you to a card in a substackused to 
anyway!
Now, the substack appears only as a minimized Icon at the bottom of the 
screen.  Next thing I know, my main stack is also not visible--it just stays 
an icon at the bottom of the screen.

Anyone know how I can persuade the stack to show itself?
I am running the trial version, but I gotta say, if my applications keep 
disappearing I'm not going to buy the thing.  Is this a bug?

_
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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Sarah Reichelt]

Tracking it down wasn't much help because the message
watcher threw me off thinking the problem was the TableManager
(sorry Jan)... Besides the fact that the message watcher is nearly
useless, it throws in all the RR's messages to confuse you and
doesn't tell you where the message came from... The more stacks
or windows (scritp editors for ex.) you open, the more messages you
get to confuse you...
Click the Suppress button in the Message Watcher and you have all sorts 
of options for telling the Message Watcher what messages to ignore. 
When a line appears, select it to see where it came from.
Anyway, my stack was really slow all the time and the problem was
untraceable... Then I noticed that a message suspendstack was
saving the stack at each suspendstack... Nothing wrong there
except that whenever I went to the revprops or revtools or revmenu
palette, my stack would get a suspendstack event!!
It seems to me that you would have a lot more cause to complain if 
going to a different stack did NOT send a suspendStack message! 
However, if your save stack routine is causing you problems, that may 
be due to your saving method. If you are using the internal "revSave" 
handler either in a script or by calling the Save menu item directly, 
it throws up a dialog box telling you what has been saved. This box 
stays open for 2 seconds but you can of course edit the script for that 
if you want. If you use the simpler "save this stack", you will not get 
the dialog and saving should be so fast as to be undetectable. The 
disadvantage is that it does not compact the stack so if you have been 
adding or deleting lots of objects, you should do a menu save every now 
& then.
Since RR is ultra slow, ultra-cpu-hog, I couldn't be get more and
more irritated... On a 2.8 MHz P4 512MBs, this is a shame, and
a real bummer for productivity...
Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?
IS THAT NORMAL?
This is NOT normal behavior and I believe we are all affected!
No it is not normal and no we are not all affected. I think you are 
blaming Rev for something that you have added as the default 
installation of Rev is not "ultra slow" and is not an "ultra-cpu-hog". 
Check what stacks you have in use and whether you have added an front 
or back scripts. Something you are doing is causing this lack of 
performance and leading to your frustration. I have numerous plugins 
running constantly, both my own, Rev's and those contributed by others 
and I have none of these problems.

Sarah
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RE: Passing variables between Flash and Rev

[Ken Ray]

> Just curious : did you open a socket between a Rev standalone 
> and a Flash standalone running simultaneously, or inside a 
> single Rev standalone with a Flash animation running in a player ?

Between two standalones... haven't tried between a standalone and a
player...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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Re: Application Icons in Mac classic

[Mark Talluto]

On May 26, 2004, at 1:40 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2004, at 01:32  PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
Mark,
I have been using the ResEdit method.  I remember trying it some time 
ago and not getting it to go.  I really did not spend much time with 
it.  I have my own method down so well, that I just reverted to get 
the job done.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
That's what I was going to try next. Does this work for filetype 
association as well regarding setting an icon type for creator codes, 
signatures and document extensions for files that are created with the 
standalone? All this works great on Mac X.

Thanks,
Mark
It all works well using the ResEdit method.  One of these days I will 
try out the Rev internal method again and see how it is going.  If you 
have found a problem though, it would be good to bugzilla it.  Monte is 
on the ball and has been very timely with bug fixes.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Application Icons in Mac classic

[Mark Brownell]

On Wednesday, May 26, 2004, at 01:32  PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
Mark,
I have been using the ResEdit method.  I remember trying it some time 
ago and not getting it to go.  I really did not spend much time with 
it.  I have my own method down so well, that I just reverted to get 
the job done.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
That's what I was going to try next. Does this work for filetype 
association as well regarding setting an icon type for creator codes, 
signatures and document extensions for files that are created with the 
standalone? All this works great on Mac X.

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Application Icons in Mac classic

[Mark Talluto]

On May 26, 2004, at 1:17 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
Hi,
Has anyone successfully created a standalone Mac 9 app with Rev 2.2 
that included an icon for the app? I used Iconographer to create 
recommended icons and tried to build in Rev 2.2 Mac 10 and native in 
an I-Mac 9.0 using Rev 2.2 Classic. In either case I can't get Rev to 
accept and show the icon. The standalone builder won't add it 
properly. Is this a known bug?

I've been beating my head against a wall for three days on this. 
Iconographer has a cheating way to do it that is no better than copy 
and paste inside the "get info window." This does not display the 
proper icon for the finder and can be removed with the delete button.

The standalone builder bothers to ask during a set up but does nothing 
during the build.

Any suggestions or success stories would be welcome.
Mark,
I have been using the ResEdit method.  I remember trying it some time 
ago and not getting it to go.  I really did not spend much time with 
it.  I have my own method down so well, that I just reverted to get the 
job done.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Passing variables between Flash and Rev

[jbv]

> > > The only thing that you *can* do, IMHO, is to launch the
> > Rev app and
> > > open a socket between the two, pass your information through the
> > > socket, and then close down Flash.
> > >
> >
> > This is interesting. Has anybody tried that ?
>
> Actually, I have, and it works pretty well.
>

Just curious : did you open a socket between a Rev standalone and a Flash
standalone running simultaneously, or inside a single Rev standalone with
a Flash animation running in a player ?

Thanks,
JB

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Application Icons in Mac classic

[Mark Brownell]

Hi,
Has anyone successfully created a standalone Mac 9 app with Rev 2.2 
that included an icon for the app? I used Iconographer to create 
recommended icons and tried to build in Rev 2.2 Mac 10 and native in an 
I-Mac 9.0 using Rev 2.2 Classic. In either case I can't get Rev to 
accept and show the icon. The standalone builder won't add it properly. 
Is this a known bug?

I've been beating my head against a wall for three days on this. 
Iconographer has a cheating way to do it that is no better than copy 
and paste inside the "get info window." This does not display the 
proper icon for the finder and can be removed with the delete button.

The standalone builder bothers to ask during a set up but does nothing 
during the build.

Any suggestions or success stories would be welcome.
Mark
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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:
> Richard, I definitely want to meet you in Malta!
You're coming?  Cool!  Jim Sims has done a great job putting together a 
strong lineup.  While I'll hopefully be at least amusing, the rest of 
his lineup is chock full o' experience:

Kevin Miller
Malte Brill
Klaus Major
Frederic Rinaldi
Jan Schenkel
For those of you in Europe or just looking for an excuse to have a great 
vacation and learn a few things at the same time (I've been reading up 
on Malta and it sounds wonderful), the URL to the EuroRevCon is:


Xavier, keep me posted on how the frontScript option works for your 
plugins.  I think you'll be pleased with the clean efficient approach.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:
that was a hypothetical estimate in favor of RR's engine ;)
Given the astronomical speeds of the systems we have (overblown IOWs)
the whole operation should not take 1 second! But consider that when
you save the hilitedlines get deselected too... If you do type
save this stack in the messagebox instead of control-s it does take
less than 1 second on an overloaded 1.8MHz... So why waste this time
on the dialog...
Sounds like a bugzilla suggestion!
I'm still not clear on why it's auto-saving at all.  If there are no 
plugins doing that, what is?  Auto-saving is not a normal behavior for 
the Rev IDE.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Nevermind email about cpu chip

[RGould8]

I think my client and I were both confusing each other about what he really 
wanted to know about the chip.   "the processor" command will do just fine for 
his needs.
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RE: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[MisterX]

that was a hypothetical estimate in favor of RR's engine ;)

Given the astronomical speeds of the systems we have (overblown IOWs)
the whole operation should not take 1 second! But consider that when
you save the hilitedlines get deselected too... If you do type
save this stack in the messagebox instead of control-s it does take
less than 1 second on an overloaded 1.8MHz... So why waste this time
on the dialog...

Sounds like a bugzilla suggestion!

But it's these slowdowns that bring up the real issues with conflicting
leaks of IDE event within developper running code space. Something that was
"almost" impervious in the HC, SC and MC environments.

Am I watching too much star trek or what?
I'll try to write a borg simulator in RR sometime!


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard
> Gaskin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 19:16
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)
>
>
> MisterX wrote:
> >  but consider it takes 1 second for OS to file access, even 2 seconds
> > to save 10 Ks to be extrememly long...
>
> If that's how long it takes to access files on a 1.8MHz machine there's
> something else going on there that may be beyond Rev's ability to
> control.  Even my 500MHz machine performs much faster than that for all
> sessions with Rev.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___
>   Rev tools and more:  http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
> ___
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[MisterX]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  > I gave up on reveditscript and revselection changed...
>  > I had some AWESOME plugins to come... no release date yet...
>
> I gave you the solution months ago when you first started complaining
> about this.  Rev's messages for plugins are convenient but by no means
> necessary.  While other plugin authors aren't reporting the sorts of
> show-stoppers you keep writing about, simply taking advantage of the
> solicited advice given would completely free you of such frustration.

Richard, I definitely want to meet you in Malta! You're the show makegoer!


> >>>PS: when will this subscription list adhere to standards and strip the
> >>>CC's and other non-subscription list emails? Do you like SPAM, and
> >>>mis-forwards to the wrong persons? I suppose it's normal... ;)
> >>
> >>Dude, please.  If you have a question about the list format contact the
> >>listmom, Heather.
> >
> > im just waiting for another blunder to happen to laugh my heart out!
>
> Your schadenfreude is inspiring.

My what? I didn't know I had that!

> I haven't experienced any sort of "blunder" related to forwarding, etc.
>   What's going on with your email client?

Lotus Nots pardi!

(But we just managed to install the Outlook client on "our" admin
workstations ;)
Lucky me, I can't use it because I have the IT directors walking behind me
rather too often! Fortunately at home I got the standard issue...

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Way to retrieve chip info from Mac?

[RGould8]

I have no idea if this is possible, but a client was asking me if there's a 
way for Revolution to retrieve the name of the main chip used in the CPU of a 
Mac.   

If I go into system profiler, I get this info:

   Machine Model: Power Mac G4
   CPU Type: PowerPC G4   (2.1)
   Number Of CPUs: 2
   CPU Speed: 1 GHz
   L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
   L3 Cache (per CPU): 1 MB
   Memory: 1.25 GB
   Bus Speed: 167 MHz
   Boot ROM Version: 4.48f2
   Serial Number: SG236BEQMFX

So I'm wondering if the Mac even has a reason to keep track of such things as 
the name of   the chip.   Are there unix calls that perhaps give more 
information about these lower-level things?

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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Richard Gaskin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I gave up on reveditscript and revselection changed...
> I had some AWESOME plugins to come... no release date yet...
I gave you the solution months ago when you first started complaining 
about this.  Rev's messages for plugins are convenient but by no means 
necessary.  While other plugin authors aren't reporting the sorts of 
show-stoppers you keep writing about, simply taking advantage of the 
solicited advice given would completely free you of such frustration.

In short, use frontScripts.  Take a look at how UmbrellaMan works, or an 
even better example might be 4W Props (also in RevNet).

When in use they insert a frontScript to trap any messages they need, 
and when they close they tidy up after themselves by removing that 
frontScript.

Using a frontScript to trap native messages directly takes about a 
minute of extra work to set up, but once done it puts you in total 
control of what's happening, reducing the layers between you and the engine.

Caveat:  as a courtesy to the rest of the environment, in most cases 
you'll want to pass any system messages trapped in a frontScript.  The 
only exception I can think of is the editScript message, as there's no 
point in letting Rev get it to open another script editor if you're 
trapping it to open your own.  Messages like selectedObjectChanged are 
definitely things you'll want to pass.

Another benefit to using frontScripts rather than relying on Rev's 
dispatched messages is that you'll be able to use your plugins in any 
IDE.  If you move work between multiple IDEs this can be invaluable.

FrontScripts and other means of extending the message path are detailed 
here:



PS: when will this subscription list adhere to standards and strip the
CC's and other non-subscription list emails? Do you like SPAM, and
mis-forwards to the wrong persons? I suppose it's normal... ;)
Dude, please.  If you have a question about the list format contact the
listmom, Heather.
im just waiting for another blunder to happen to laugh my heart out!
Your schadenfreude is inspiring.
I haven't experienced any sort of "blunder" related to forwarding, etc. 
 What's going on with your email client?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Performance Testing of Rev CGI?

[Richard K. Herz]

Dan Shafer asked:
>Are there any other limitations of using Rev engines as CGI
>environments that you've encountered that i should know about?

In a bubbling first attempt at doing chat, I used posts to Rev CGI on a
shared Linux server at a commercial web host.  It worked well but the host
shut it down because of "too big a load on the server."  My understanding is
that each CGI post starts up a new instance of the Rev engine, producing the
excessive load in my case.  It seems that Rev CGI on a shared server is good
for things that don't produce a lot of simultaneous posts, like web forms.
It appears the way to do chat is to open one Rev CGI engine instance which
runs continuously and communicates with multiple clients over sockets,
though I haven't tested it with a a lot of users yet.

Rich Herz


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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:
 but consider it takes 1 second for OS to file access, even 2 seconds
to save 10 Ks to be extrememly long...
If that's how long it takes to access files on a 1.8MHz machine there's 
something else going on there that may be beyond Rev's ability to 
control.  Even my 500MHz machine performs much faster than that for all 
sessions with Rev.

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RE: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[MisterX]

from the moment you press cntrol s until the IDE reacts again...

but consider it takes 1 second for OS to file access, even 2 seconds
to save 10 Ks to be extrememly long...

The CPU hog is the worst, it's capable of screwing up a DVD burn
among other things (true story)... And on a PC, it's hard to do
that usually (no osx experience but MacOS was really sensible
whereas the PC is not.)

Real life... Control-Alt-S (the old edit stack script shortcut)
will block your PC or Mac for 5 seconds per stack opened...

Oops... RR's CPU hunger is a major problem IMOHO. Not that it
can hog the CPU but it does it anytime...

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Derek Bump
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 16:59
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)
>
>
> > Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
> > at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?
>
> I just want to make sure on this comment.  Are you talking about the delay
> when the "Save" dialog appears?
>
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> 
> Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
>
>
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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Derek Bump]

> Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
> at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?

I just want to make sure on this comment.  Are you talking about the delay
when the "Save" dialog appears?

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com


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Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[xbury . cs]

Richard,

An hour of yoga will fix many Revproblems, at least make 
them irrelevant for a while ;)

On 26.05.2004 11:35:01 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Dear fellow RR developpers...
>>
>> I just noticed 4 days ago that a minute stack was really slow.
>>
>> Tracking it down wasn't much help because the message
>> watcher threw me off thinking the problem was the TableManager
>> (sorry Jan)... Besides the fact that the message watcher is nearly
>> useless, it throws in all the RR's messages to confuse you and
>> doesn't tell you where the message came from... The more stacks
>> or windows (scritp editors for ex.) you open, the more messages you
>> get to confuse you...
>
>The Rev Message Watcher "throws in all the RR's messages" not to confuse
>you, but to allow you to watch them.  That's where its name comes from.
>The tool has no way to determine which subset of messages you're
>interested in.

It would be nice to have the same prefs for the RMW as for the right click
or app browser concerning the rev IDE/GUI

>If you want to see only native system messages try UmbrellaMan (in
>RevNet).  It also shows the target and provides a means of selecting
>only the messages you want to watch.  It's free:  if it doesn't work as
>you'd like please don't flame me.

I'll give it a try and forward any design enhancements if possible. 
If I flame RR is because sometimes I believe they dont observe
the same quality guidelines everywhere... The IDE being the most
important part of an, eh, IDE, i feel a good critique is good for the 
general health once in a while ;) If only RR could do yoga :))


>> This is NOT normal behavior and I believe we are all affected!
>
>It seems you answered your own question.

My monologue again!

>Agreed, there is no auto-save option in prefs, so if the IDE is
>auto-saving it's an issue to post to Bugzilla.

I was doing the auto-save in my stacks suspendstack event. 
I still feel my own events are more reliable than RR's built-in - the menu
bar being the worse example... 

>But I haven't seen this behavior, so'm not sure it is.  Sure you don't
>have an auto-saving plugin doing that for you?

Plug-ins (PIM) are not my favorite part of RR... ;(
Mostly because the features i need in the PIM, dont work!

>> Any solutions or suggestions to avoid this kind of IDE interference?
>
>Check your plugins.

NONE - they dont work anyway other than startup... I gave up on
reveditscript and revselection changed... I had some AWESOME
plugins to come... no release date yet...

>> The message watcher is also showing lots of events that dont
>> seem pertinent to the environment/moment - lots of reveditscript
>> messages (a script window is opened) but im not editing the script
>> currently.
>
>I believe that's a pending message sent at a regular interval to poll
>for command-option in order to allow script access with the browse tool.

Diversion: There's many more messages going on...
 revtable, revSEpalettedisplay, reveditscript, etc 
etc etc...


>> Incidentally this is the @%)*@&#)%*( message I cannot
>> use in the plug-ins to use my own script editor which despite all my
>> bug reporting is still light years ahead of RR's (not to mention an
>> improved message and variable watcher that really work in MC
>> for years now)

>You've mentioned this before, but you've either entered the bug report
>in Bugzilla or you haven't.  If you have you can track its progress
>through Bugzilla's interface.  If you haven't there's little point in
>bringing it up in any other venue.  In either case I'm unclear what you
>expect the readers of this list to do for you on that one.

Relevance: I entered the bug long ago. More than once and one of the
earliest bugs regarding this is still UNCO or not an issue !

BTW, the latest RR feature list omits any mention of Plugins... 

>The only plugin I've seen issues with is the example plugin, but since
>it's only an example it's never been a show-stopper for me, nor has it
>affected any of the other plugins I use.

The example plugin is the ONLY one I've managed to make work. Porting
my plugin scritps and buttons to it resulted in major crashes and more 
lost time and scripts... as usual - when it dont work, get out...

>> What is really frustrating is that all these messages interfere with
>> normal stack operations - suspendstack in the occurence...
>>
>> My question is whether there is a way to STOP them and have a
>> minimum environment like MC
>
>Er, use MC?

I do too were critical and in our corporate production. 
I use RR for fun and general mad science development. 
It's sad to downgrade technology to make things work though...

>It has a plugin system now, and it uses only native system messages so
>the other issues you've had should not be evident there.

I still have to give 2.6 a try but time is short lately...

>> - No offense meant - sorry for the lack of professional wording
>
>> PS: when will this subscription li

Re: IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[Richard Gaskin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear fellow RR developpers...
I just noticed 4 days ago that a minute stack was really slow.
Tracking it down wasn't much help because the message 
watcher threw me off thinking the problem was the TableManager 
(sorry Jan)... Besides the fact that the message watcher is nearly 
useless, it throws in all the RR's messages to confuse you and 
doesn't tell you where the message came from... The more stacks
or windows (scritp editors for ex.) you open, the more messages you
get to confuse you...
The Rev Message Watcher "throws in all the RR's messages" not to confuse 
you, but to allow you to watch them.  That's where its name comes from. 
 The tool has no way to determine which subset of messages you're 
interested in.

If you want to see only native system messages try UmbrellaMan (in 
RevNet).  It also shows the target and provides a means of selecting 
only the messages you want to watch.  It's free:  if it doesn't work as 
you'd like please don't flame me.

Anyway, my stack was really slow all the time and the problem was
untraceable... Then I noticed that a message suspendstack was
saving the stack at each suspendstack... Nothing wrong there
except that whenever I went to the revprops or revtools or revmenu 
palette, my stack would get a suspendstack event!!

Since RR is ultra slow, ultra-cpu-hog, I couldn't be get more and
more irritated... On a 2.8 MHz P4 512MBs, this is a shame, and 
a real bummer for productivity...

Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?
IS THAT NORMAL?
This is NOT normal behavior and I believe we are all affected!
It seems you answered your own question.
Agreed, there is no auto-save option in prefs, so if the IDE is 
auto-saving it's an issue to post to Bugzilla.

But I haven't seen this behavior, so'm not sure it is.  Sure you don't 
have an auto-saving plugin doing that for you?


Any solutions or suggestions to avoid this kind of IDE interference?
Check your plugins.
The message watcher is also showing lots of events that dont
seem pertinent to the environment/moment - lots of reveditscript
messages (a script window is opened) but im not editing the script 
currently. 
I believe that's a pending message sent at a regular interval to poll 
for command-option in order to allow script access with the browse tool.

There were two predominant standards in circulation at the time the IDE 
was crafted:  SuperCard's, in which you hold down the Command and Option 
keys while hovering over and object, and Command-Option-click to emulate 
HyperCard's method.

The SuperCard method was chosen, but because of the nature of the 
available system messages choosing that method requires a polling system 
the HyperCard method would not.

I believe this has been submitted to Bugzilla as a feature request for 
an option to choose between those two methods.

> Incidentally this is the @%)*@&#)%*( message I cannot
use in the plug-ins to use my own script editor which despite all my
bug reporting is still light years ahead of RR's (not to mention an
improved message and variable watcher that really work in MC
for years now)
Obviously RR's plug-ins are  irrelevant and futile since they haven't 
been fixed for years...
You've mentioned this before, but you've either entered the bug report 
in Bugzilla or you haven't.  If you have you can track its progress 
through Bugzilla's interface.  If you haven't there's little point in 
bringing it up in any other venue.  In either case I'm unclear what you 
expect the readers of this list to do for you on that one.

The only plugin I've seen issues with is the example plugin, but since 
it's only an example it's never been a show-stopper for me, nor has it 
affected any of the other plugins I use.

What is really frustrating is that all these messages interfere with 
normal stack operations - suspendstack in the occurence... 

My question is whether there is a way to STOP them and have a 
minimum environment like MC
Er, use MC?
It has a plugin system now, and it uses only native system messages so 
the other issues you've had should not be evident there.

- No offense meant - sorry for the lack of professional wording

PS: when will this subscription list adhere to standards and strip the
CC's and other non-subscription list emails? Do you like SPAM, and
mis-forwards to the wrong persons? I suppose it's normal... ;)
Dude, please.  If you have a question about the list format contact the 
listmom, Heather.

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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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IDE Interference (not just a another rant)

[xbury . cs]

Dear fellow RR developpers...

I just noticed 4 days ago that a minute stack was really slow.

Tracking it down wasn't much help because the message 
watcher threw me off thinking the problem was the TableManager 
(sorry Jan)... Besides the fact that the message watcher is nearly 
useless, it throws in all the RR's messages to confuse you and 
doesn't tell you where the message came from... The more stacks
or windows (scritp editors for ex.) you open, the more messages you
get to confuse you...

Anyway, my stack was really slow all the time and the problem was
untraceable... Then I noticed that a message suspendstack was
saving the stack at each suspendstack... Nothing wrong there
except that whenever I went to the revprops or revtools or revmenu 
palette, my stack would get a suspendstack event!!

Since RR is ultra slow, ultra-cpu-hog, I couldn't be get more and
more irritated... On a 2.8 MHz P4 512MBs, this is a shame, and 
a real bummer for productivity...

Why would a 10 K stack take 5 seconds to save and hog your CPU
at 55 % (or 99% hog on a 1.8MHz P4...)?

IS THAT NORMAL?

This is NOT normal behavior and I believe we are all affected!

Any solutions or suggestions to avoid this kind of IDE interference?

The message watcher is also showing lots of events that dont
seem pertinent to the environment/moment - lots of reveditscript
messages (a script window is opened) but im not editing the script 
currently. Incidentally this is the @%)*@&#)%*( message I cannot 
use in the plug-ins to use my own script editor which despite all my
bug reporting is still light years ahead of RR's (not to mention an
improved message and variable watcher that really work in MC
for years now)

Obviously RR's plug-ins are  irrelevant and futile since they haven't 
been fixed for years...

What is really frustrating is that all these messages interfere with 
normal stack operations - suspendstack in the occurence... 

My question is whether there is a way to STOP them and have a 
minimum environment like MC in order to trace real stack problems 
and not RR's interference? Note the debug mode is needed and 
can't be done without.

- No offense meant - sorry for the lack of professional wording, I 
just wanted to say what I think in all honesty and without any 
dumbfounded unrealistic diplomacy. You and I are loosing 
precious time due to these problems and most dont notice...

Last but not least, please reply to this thread if you want RR's IDE
to improve - Im sure RR's great developpers will notice that 
something IS wrong... Quality is not just a GUI feature... Unfortunately
this is not a real bugzilla matter... and I would assume it would be
disregarded as a functional requirements. So a little public motion
may help us all I hope...

Regards, and long live RR!
Xavier

PS: when will this subscription list adhere to standards and strip the
CC's and other non-subscription list emails? Do you like SPAM, and
mis-forwards to the wrong persons? I suppose it's normal... ;)


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