Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Judy Perry]

Chipp,

Amen!

Judy

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Programs like Claris Impact, Claris CAD, MORE, the old versions of Flash
> which were easy to script, MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw. Some of these
> STILL have no equal (imo, mostly thanks to the illegal efforts of MS).
> That's where one finds productivity gains, in the software and what it
> can do, not in whether it runs in a browser or on the desktop.

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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[xavier . bury]

Chipp said

> 
> MisterX wrote:
> 
> > Andre, 
> > 
> > you are very right but a dreamcard application can be just as
> > unsafe or malignous as any spyware or trojan. Ajax is supposed
> > to be safe and im sure many industry standards will evolve to
> > support that. It has been a requirement for Java, javascript,
> > I don't see it stopping there.
> 
> All one needs to do is add a certificate capability to a RR plugin (or 
> helper app more likely) and you've reinvented ActiveX. Because, Xavier, 
> it turns out you really do need to go 'outside the sandbox' to develop 
> full and robust applications. Can you see Photoshop as an AJAX app? So 
> the current sandbox limited versions of Java and Javascript just can't 
> do it. If so, then why haven't we seen even one commercial mainstream 
> app developed with Java?

While i dont see photoshop "yet", i never thought either something like
flash was possible before i saw it. OK, flash is not ajax but what of
maps.google.com? The satellite maps? That's a step into the right
direction and i would have never imagined that possible out of flash
on a browser...

As far as Java mainstream applications, you have SAP for intranets
used by thousands, B2B applications, P2P (azureus for example which
beats lots of compiled apps), most web banking applications too (i
work in a clearing bank, and no java would mean the end of electronic
transactions in many cases)... It's not photoshop, granted but how
useful is photoshop in a webbrowser when you can have the real thing
on a more efficient desktop application? Again, mainstream "practical"
use is what's a stake with ajax, moft web office etc...

> > For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The 
> > content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if
> > the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
> > newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
> > the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
> > but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.
> 
> All of our apps have used our own MagicCarpet Auto-updating Architecture 

> which can easily change the GUI at any time.

Good to know...

We seem to be working on very parallel themes and tools ;)

cheers
Xavier


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Re: serios problem with sql command

[Ruslan Zasukhin]

On 11/3/05 3:35 PM, "Alessandro Pisoni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Alessandro, 

> Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not
> work into my db sql.
 

> revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
> 22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?
> 
> i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3

> I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get
> revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!

--
> On 11/10/05 1:10 AM, "Harvey Toyama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> then it looks like you forgot the semicolon, e.g.,
> 
> revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
> 22);"


I do not think so. Semicolon is optional here
It is required only if you have several SQL commands.


--
> On 11/10/05 1:58 AM, "Hershel Fisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Looks like u r missing the "'" surrounding the values.
> Hershel

No, because NULL is keyword, and numbers as 22 go without quotes.
Single quote is required only around string constants.


--
Alessandro,

I think you should check if some error code is reported.

All looks correct in your query. I do not see any logical mistake.
So or some db problems or some db structure gifts, e.g. If field ID
specified that it can get NULLs ?


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Mark Wieder]

Dan-

Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 4:16:42 PM, you wrote:

> There is no necessary connection between where data is and where the
> app is. That's just today's temporary model.

That may be true, but according to UNESCO's 3 November report on
Knowledge versus Information Societies 11 percent of the world's
population has access to the internet. And that's not talking about
wired-in broadband connection - this includes dialup and folks who
simply have access to internet cafes and such.

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001418/141843e.pdf

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Chipp Walters]

MisterX wrote:

Andre, 


you are very right but a dreamcard application can be just as
unsafe or malignous as any spyware or trojan. Ajax is supposed
to be safe and im sure many industry standards will evolve to
support that. It has been a requirement for Java, javascript,
I don't see it stopping there.


All one needs to do is add a certificate capability to a RR plugin (or 
helper app more likely) and you've reinvented ActiveX. Because, Xavier, 
it turns out you really do need to go 'outside the sandbox' to develop 
full and robust applications. Can you see Photoshop as an AJAX app? So 
the current sandbox limited versions of Java and Javascript just can't 
do it. If so, then why haven't we seen even one commercial mainstream 
app developed with Java?



For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The 
content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if

the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.


All of our apps have used our own MagicCarpet Auto-updating Architecture 
which can easily change the GUI at any time.



Im sure there's lots to be said in the subject... The question is
not how to make a better web service but rather when is a web 
service or application better than a desktop application or service?


Well said.

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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Dan,

You of course know, I'm with Richard and Andre on this. Perhaps even 
further left of them. My experience with Application Service Providers 
tell me it's very difficult to persuade the enterprise to take advantage 
of such technologies, especially from outside the firewall. And if 
Enterprise doesn't adopt the technology, then I don't give it much of a 
chance.


Frankly, I still think AJAX is the flavor of the month in California, 
where flavors of the month are mostly born. I believe this for many of 
the reasons already stated.


But,here's another reason:

18 months ago I spent some time with the CTO of Quest communications in 
Dallas. I was surprised to see his computer running WinNT when both Win 
2000 and Win XP were available. His comment was something along the 
lines of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' He understands, it is 
important to keep up to date, but he mentioned being responsible for 
something like 2000 computers. Factoring in costs like downtime, 
retraining, and licensing fees brought him to the decision that the 
gains just weren't worth the effort. I think many CTO's are now more 
budget-minded and I'm sure BOD's are wary of out-of-control technology 
budgets, especially when it's obvious the productivity gains just are 
not showing themselves.


Speaking of productivity, I'm not so sure, deep mask interfaces with 
glowing pulsing buttons and expose like task management really helps 
users 'get more done'.


You and I and most everyone on this list know of good...no GREAT 
software we have used in the past, which is no longer available..but our 
fonts are now anti-aliased!


Programs like Claris Impact, Claris CAD, MORE, the old versions of Flash 
which were easy to script, MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw. Some of these 
STILL have no equal (imo, mostly thanks to the illegal efforts of MS). 
That's where one finds productivity gains, in the software and what it 
can do, not in whether it runs in a browser or on the desktop.


Good discussion,

best,

Chipp

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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Chipp Walters]

Dan Shafer wrote:
The fact that one such effort failed -- or even that a bunch of such  
efforts failed -- is irrelevant in the face of the new market  
realities. Particularly the ad supported software model is one that I  
think has a tremendous amount of potential to be disruptive.


I hope 'ad supported software model' doesn't go the way of the last 
internet version of 'ad supported software model'! As you recall, the 
last ad based models showed up at the beginning of the WWW, and was 
instantly proclaimed the next great business model. Many companies lost 
their shirts believing this. Now, internet advertising is seen as 
something 'no so great' at best, and 'bothersome spyware' at worst.


-Chipp

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RE: Buggy debugger -- solved?

[MisterX]

I don't know if this is related but I think I found a serious engine bug

put the selectedtext of btn "view" of grp "Objects"

I have a btn view of group objects and also a btn View of grp Index of grp
Objects...

And this last one is the one that gets called!!!

There's a possible problem with background objects and their references
which
may explain why the debugger also gets lost! Further testing coming, results
in 
a bugzilla either way...

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Timothy Miller
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:45
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Buggy debugger -- solved?
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I guess I submitted BZ report #3086, on 8-26-2005. I think 
> I've upgraded to 2.6.1 since then. I originally isolated the 
> problem in 2.5. It does seem to resemble bug 329, doesn't it?
> 
> Maybe Rev should consider putting up a "workaround page" for 
> issues like this, when workarounds are available, pending bug 
> fixes. (A wiki would serve the same purpose, of course. Maybe 
> that's gonna happen.)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> >Tim,
> >
> >I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you 
> had with 
> >debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you stack to 
> >me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 329 of the 
> >Bugzilla database.
> >
> >In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug mode. 
> >It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
> >debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your stack, maybe 
> >RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Mark
> >
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focus on group

[MisterX]

Hi everyone,

Hoping for a solution...

I got the xosmedialib stack which has a group showing images in a scrollable
grid. The grid is 2D, x columns by y rows.

You can click on an image in the group (or a list of the images) and it
selects the image in the group. The selection is shown with a button behind
the image just to show which img is selected. If you type an arrow key it
selects the image up, down, left, or right of the last one selected. So far
so easy.

But the arrowkey handler is problematic. The arrowkey is detected ok, I
calculate which image to select, hilite the right image in the image list
field and send a to it to update the image selection. But the focus in the
group is lost.

So if the user needs to do arrow down for example again, he cant. 

So I tried the focus me, focus this group, focus (the long name of this
group) and none work. I checked the revdocs and the group's traversalon is
true. Yet... The focus command refuses to focus on the group (which works
since I clicked on it and it had the keyboard focus when I typed the
arrowkey)...

The script is like this...

Group
  on arrowkey
select next image
send mouseup to fld list
focus on me <- error no matter what

  on mouseup
 find the right image/zone clicked
 select image in list
 send mouseup to fld list

List field
  on mouseup
 find image coordinates
 select image

So, is the revdocs wrong or is this a bug? Seems like a bug to me...
Maybe I can trick the mouseup to "focus" the group but it seems like a
workaround...

Any nice and easy solutions?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

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Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

[Dan Shafer]

Thanks. Fixed.

Dan

On Nov 9, 2005, at 8:13 PM, MisterX wrote:


Hi Dan

The link in the article http://www.scriptiong.com is not working

cheers
Xavier


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Dan Shafer
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:42
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

It's not on my site. I'm just one of the Rev guys hanging out here.
Chipp Walters did this cool plugin.

You can find a link to it at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm

Once there, click on the "Download Plugins" link in the left
column and follow the directions. altFldHeader is most of the
way down the page where the plugins are listed.


On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:


Dan,

I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?

greetings,

Ton


On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:


Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http://
www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.


On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:



Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or
something else placed above the field?
If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false

3. Set the

different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
  
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :



I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long
time ago...

I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the

header above the

field will differ also each time.

I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a

user clicks

on one of the words in the header, but how do I know

what item the

user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever
routine to get the item a user clicked on?

The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can

consist of

more then one word each.

Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,




So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order
applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution:

Software at the

Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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RE: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[MisterX]

 
> We have the dreamcard player which is the most advanced and 
> friendly thing ever. Before the dreamcard player, I used 
> REBOL and REBOL had a browser plugin which was nice, there 
> was also another solution called CURL, even Squeak could load 
> modules on demand and be very user friendly. Even OpenDoc 
> could solve such things. AJAX is not the answer for me. We 
> need smarter things for me, but still microsoft and the other 
> biggies will use AJAX, it's there, it's a buzzword, they will 
> create Outlook Web App and it will not be safe (at least not 
> with todays technology)
> 
> Cheers
> andre
> 
> PS: ... who would not feel safe writting AJAX apps.

Andre, 

you are very right but a dreamcard application can be just as
unsafe or malignous as any spyware or trojan. Ajax is supposed
to be safe and im sure many industry standards will evolve to
support that. It has been a requirement for Java, javascript,
I don't see it stopping there.

Be it in outlook or in a form based email, it doesn't change the
fact that it's useful and if the gui's can be enhanced, that much
better. Many users do not have the choice to install apps like
dreamcard on their desktops because of corporate security policy
or cyber-cafe safety. 

On the other hand and just to counter Richard's quote

"Many articles have been published extolling the
 virtues of Browser-based applications, but few
(if any) of these were written in one..."

Any PHPNuke article (or xoops, xnuke, wiki, etc...) have shown it
is possible - how the end article is delivered, is another story
yet many other websites have demoed this as viable with pdf, doc,
html output. Other systems, like wiki, allow also rich content 
editing among many... 

Other apps 100's of thousands of corporate users need are SAP, B2B, 
log servers, google, googlemaps, etc... Extending this is obvious. 
Having the right framework to do so (phpnuke, wiki, forum servers, 
etc) have shown the way... The big problem as Andre says, it's they 
are not easy to program, let alone for each OS, each browser, each 
screen size.

So while it is possible to deliver better than ajax products with
Dreamcard, there remains lots to be done in marketing or product
visibility of rev so that it can become accepted as a "standard".

I still think a DreamCard plugin is the way to go if this is get
anywhere otherwise, your RevHTML server or cgi framework is just
going to be doing xtalk (yep, like asp) with php, xml and or sql. 

And that's not the point for the RunRev developper. 

And until someone makes "components" for downloading to make ajax
like apps (working on the desktop via dreamcard), the number of
applications that are as flexible as real desktop applications 
(like an Office suite of tools), is always going to be limited. 

For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The 
content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if
the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.

This is why I've been working on modularizing and standardizing
every GUI possible in HyperCard - and the point is that it ported
to MC and rev almost without any rewrite... The program stayed the
same! And to my big surprise, PHPNuke, Wiki servers are written
the same way... Maybe there's something to be considered there...

Im sure there's lots to be said in the subject... The question is
not how to make a better web service but rather when is a web 
service or application better than a desktop application or service?

Ajax solves part of the speed and functionality problems but it still
requires local storage (like java applets). This is where server-side
apps like javascript, dhtml, xul (?), and the browser keep the 
upper hand - at the cost of delivery speed (if that's a consideration).

cheers
Xavier



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RE: Find the item a user clicked on...

[MisterX]

Hi Dan

The link in the article http://www.scriptiong.com is not working

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Dan Shafer
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:42
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Find the item a user clicked on...
> 
> It's not on my site. I'm just one of the Rev guys hanging out here.  
> Chipp Walters did this cool plugin.
> 
> You can find a link to it at:
> 
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
> 
> Once there, click on the "Download Plugins" link in the left 
> column and follow the directions. altFldHeader is most of the 
> way down the page where the plugins are listed.
> 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:
> 
> > Dan,
> >
> > I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?
> >
> > greetings,
> >
> > Ton
> >
> >
> > On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:
> >
> >> Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http://
> >> www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Ton,
> >>>
> >>> If I understand correctly:
> >>> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or 
> >>> something else placed above the field?
> >>> If it's the case, you can:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
> >>> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false 
> 3. Set the 
> >>> different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
> >>>
> >>> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
> >>>
> >>> on linkClicked pLink
> >>>   
> >>> end linkClicked
> >>>
> >>> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
> >>>
> >>> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards from Paris,
> >>>
> >>> Eric Chatonet.
> >>>
> >>> Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>
>  I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long 
>  time ago...
> 
>  I have a header above a field with columns of data.
>  The amount of columns are different each time, the 
> header above the 
>  field will differ also each time.
> 
>  I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a 
> user clicks 
>  on one of the words in the header, but how do I know 
> what item the 
>  user clicked on?
>  I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever 
>  routine to get the item a user clicked on?
> 
>  The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can 
> consist of 
>  more then one word each.
> 
>  Any help is welcome :-)
> 
> 
>  Warm regards,
> 
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> So Smart Software
> >>>
> >>> For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order 
> >>> applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> >>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> >>>
> >>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> >>> 
> >>> Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> >>> Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> >>> Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> >>> Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> >>> 
> >>>
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> >> ~~
> >> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author 
> >> http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: 
> Software at the 
> >> Speed of Thought"
> >> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> >>
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Re: examples accepting appleevents

[Jim Ault]

Hello,

On 11/6/05 8:55 PM, "Andre Garzia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am doing that right now, if you want I can build a sample stack for
> you and send to you tomorrow (it's 2:53 AM now, am not thinking well)

It has been a few days now, and I was wondering if Andre actually did write
the sample stack.  I would be interested in knowing more about the
Applescript techniques involved.  I have done a few of my own, but don't
have the time to explore or optimize.

Thanks,

 Jim Ault
Las Vegas 

> 
> On Nov 7, 2005, at 2:43 AM, kee nethery wrote:
> 
>> Can someone point me to where I might go to see an example of one
>> stack communicating with another stack via appleevents (on MacOSX)?
>> I'm not exactly sure how to pass data via appleevents and have the
>> other app catch them and reply back.
>> 
>> Want to pass the data that would be needed to send an email message
>> and then get back a response saying the email was sent.
>> 
>> I know this is simple, just have not figured it out. I can send
>> commands to pre-existing apps and make them sing and dance. But
>> I've no clue how to send commands when there is no dictionary.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Kee Nethery
> 
> Kee,
> 
> I am doing that right now, if you want I can build a sample stack for
> you and send to you tomorrow (it's 2:53 AM now, am not thinking well)
> 
> There's a message called AppleEvent that you can use to handle events.
> There's "send to program" that you can use to send events.
> There's "request from program" that also sends events.
> There's "reply to program" that does the reply.
> 
> cheers.
> andre
> 
> 
> 
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RE: Imitated multi-thread

[MisterX]

Hi Hershel

Yes it's possible. You can do so via sockets or files or
sql to communicate among the different parts of your applications.

Note that each method has it's advantages and inconveniences.

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Hershel Fisch
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:47
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Imitated multi-thread
> 
> Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by 
> using a few separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
> Thanks, Hershel
> 
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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Dan Shafer]

Andre

Actually, my blog accommodates arbitrarily large posts and comments,  
but it's fine that you reply here.


On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:


(by the way, where is your RSS feed?)


On the left side of the page there's a large orange XML button that  
will get you my feed.


What if you need to use word processor on a vacation where no net  
access is available.


There will, of course, be situations like this. I'm not exactly sure  
what the solution looks like. I suspect that it could take one of two  
forms. Either there is a local proxy Web server ("proxy" not meant in  
the usual technical sense but in the more common sense of a stand-in)  
that interacts with you while you're offline and that auto- 
synchronizes your work when you are reconnected. That's certainly  
pretty feasible. The Web apps that you use could be cached locally  
where your local browser can access them if and as necessary. This is  
hardly a difficult problem in any case.


 it's harder to create a user interface for web based apps than it  
is to create for desktop apps


If you've looked at some of the tool sets for handling the creation  
of UIs in Rich Internet Applications (RIAs), of which AJAX is a  
subset technology, then you know that while it is presently somewhat  
more difficult, this is likely a temporary condition. As the demand  
for them grows, UI tools will be developed and offered and they will  
get better and better.


Not only bookmark but the most simple go back and go forward of  
browsers will wreck most web apps. Try fiddling with that while  
gMail is thinking, you'll see it getting lost pretty soon.


I agree this is a challenge but again it's not really difficult to  
overcome. Kiosk-type Web apps deal with this by the simple expedient  
of removing the back and forward arrows in the browser UI. Bookmarks  
can either be disabled or made more intelligent so that they work  
either with cookies or with some other session management technique  
to overcome the brain-dead nature of static bookmarks. For many years  
there have been bookmarklets that contain JavaScript and behave more  
intelligently and contextually aware than standard bookmarks.


That's why I don't think we'll be leaving the desktop soon, at  
least, not until someone present a better language than javascript,  
a better way to track and save runtime data than cookies and a  
better user interface than "hack your own".


To me, this smacks of the argument that essentially says, "We tried  
that once and it didn't work so now we have something better." I'm  
arguing that with the clout of a Microsoft behind AJAX style  
applications and with literally tens of thousands -- perhaps hundreds  
of thousands of trained JavaScripters available as a developer pool  
-- this thing has a life that is much larger than your view gives it  
credit for being. And FWIW, I happen to *like* JavaScript. I like the  
fact that it's object oriented. I like the simplicity of most of its  
syntax (though some of it makes me crazy; same is true of Transcript  
for that matter). I like the fact that I can mix it freely in Web  
pages (a huge drawback for Transcript for the kinds of apps I want to  
build) and I like the fact that there are so many great libraries and  
tools for it.


he problem is that since everyone and his dog got a browser  
installed, we're trying to hack apps into browser technology  
instead of trying to make a breakthru on network app tech.


Which I translate: "The problem is the real world doesn't understand  
what we could do for it." True, but not a problem that I see being  
able to overcome.


=

It's early in the cycle. Even though DHTML, of which AJAX is a small  
variant, has been around for eight or more years, still this  
technology is getting a fresh look. And it's not being driven by  
Microsoft; rather, the behemoth is now running to catch up. Early  
adopters have to put up with stuff that later-round users will find  
fixed or smoothed over. That doesn't mean AJAX isn't a sound or  
useful technology, only that it's early.


And of course I talked about AJAX but there are other technologies I  
referred to as AJAX-like, such as Laszlo (http:// 
www.laszlosystems.com) that use not DHMTL but Flash files as their  
output format and which are far easier to adapt to cross-platform  
browser deployment.


Now, don't get me wrong. For the ultrathin client apps we do have to  
build, Rev is a great answer. And if Rev had a Web plugin that would  
go a ways toward solving the problem of trying to use Rev for  
Internet-aware applications. But even then, you have a sizable  
download and many -- perhaps most -- users won't download anything to  
their desktops any longer, let alone plugins for their browsers.


At the end of the day, though, I am not so much defending AJAX (which  
hardly needs or benefits from my defense of it) as I am trying to  
point out the absolute inevitability of thi

Re: Slow screen refresh in Windows

[TJ Frame]

Well large solid color spaces surrounded by text will show show a bit of
artifacting at level 5, but for most photos 5 or 6 is fine. Besides you can
always bump it up if you need better quality. Either way they are way faster
than using BMPS, at least on my system.

On 11/9/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > Try using a JPEG, they are much smaller - that same routine runs in 91
> >milliseconds when using a JPEG set at quality level 10 in Photoshop
> (which
> >is nearly loseless). In fact for on-screen use you can save a JPEG down
> >to about 5 in Photoshop without any serious degradation in quality.
> Maybe. It *strongly* depends on exactly what's *in* the image you're
> working with. You should always have the "Preview" checkbox checked when
> you save
> an image as JPEG, so you can see for yourself how badly your image gets
> distorted as you reduce the quality level.
> In addition, you might want to consider Photoshop's Save As Web function,
> which gives you fine-grained control over various adjustments, lets you
> reduce
> the filesize down to pretty much any arbitrary figure, and also lets you
> compare the untouched image to 1-3 different versions with different sets
> of
> adjustments. Me, I use Save As Web religiously for all the graphics in my
> fantasy-and-science-fiction webzines TSAT (http://tsat.transform.to or
> http://tsat.xepher.net) and ANTHRO (http://anthrozine.com).
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Re: Repeat for each

[Marty Knapp]

Alex Tweedly wrote:


Marty Knapp wrote:



I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more 
of these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When I 
filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast - 
about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the 
above method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'



That seems terribly slow to me :-)



That's what I thought! Interestingly enough in my repeat for each loop I 
had "set cursor to busy" and that's what was bring this thing to its 
knees. I knew that a progress indicator was a hog, but had no idea that 
this would take such a heavy toll. Searches that were running 5 minutes 
now take about 5 seconds. That still isn't terribly fast - maybe my 
older computer is to blame? Are there any speed improvements between the 
current version of Rev and mine (2.2.1)?


Here's a line from my data: 61187,digital camera 
driver,1.18,3219,345,1071,4,9.1


And a typical repeat loop:

 repeat for each line theLine in sourceData
   if item 7 of theLine >50 and item 8 of theLine >2 then put theLine & 
return after allResults

 end repeat


Marty
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Re: Synchronization puzzle - take care!

[Alex Tweedly]

David Bovill wrote:

Thanks for posting this Alex - word of warning and feature request  
for RunRev - or is as ever there a way I haven't spotted?


First the warning - downloading the stack "Networked Address Book"  
from revOnline automatically asked me to locate x,y, z - can't  
remember - to which I naturally said no - then got myslef into an  
endless loop of answer dialogues!



This is a rough edge I wasn't expecting anything as fundamental as this.

It turns out there is an initialization problem (which of course I 
haven't seen - haven't installed this on a new machine since January).


The start-up sequence is


1. read prefs file
1a. if there is no prefs file, prompt user for basic data and create one
   (basic data = machine name and folder to store address book files in)
2. read data file(s)
2a. if there is no data file, create an empty one and store it in the 
folder specified in the prefs file


repeat the above steps until both files can be read OK.



Problem 1.
I was omitting step 2a :-(
Now fixed (v 0.9.4, already uploaded to revonline)

Problem 2.
This will not work in the Player in secure mode.
Since there's not much point in an Address Book that can't store its 
data, I'm not going to worry about this.


Problem 3.
Even in non-Secure mode, it doesn't work properly in the Player.
Works fine in the IDE, or as a standalone - but not in the Player.

Since it's not an app that I would expect anyone to run, rather than 
borrow parts of the script, getting it to work in the Player is not a 
priority,  I'll look into it when I have time, and if appropriate open a 
BZ. For now, please download it from revonline using the IDE.



Now the question is  - is there a way to cancel an answer dialogue?  
Command period does not work - unless you are lucky and the script  
loop is long - sometimes I manage to break out. I think it would be  
very useful if there was a way to do this as the only way I know is  
to force quit and loose all your unsaved data!


Easy to do - done it many times myself !


Sorry about the problems. I find it's one of the biggest problems with 
Rev's "live IDE" style - it's so hard to ensure that you are properly 
emulating a "cold start".


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Re: about drag an image...

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> I can't seem to recall but I think there was some really easy way to
> allow a user to drag a image control around some card, just like
> click and drag, as if he was on development mode... I just want do be
> able to toogle a "drag mode" so that the user can re-org some
> controls on the stack... I remember some silly thing like "drag me"
> but I can't recall just now. Can someone point me in some direction?

Almost -- you want the grab command.

Just remember that you can't update anything while this command is
executing, so if you need to track the mouse or some other action during the
drag, you need to roll your own drag routine.

[See the Drag Sample stack in our demo stacks if you need some assistance:
 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev";]

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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about drag an image...

[Andre Garzia]

folks,

I can't seem to recall but I think there was some really easy way to  
allow a user to drag a image control around some card, just like  
click and drag, as if he was on development mode... I just want do be  
able to toogle a "drag mode" so that the user can re-org some  
controls on the stack... I remember some silly thing like "drag me"  
but I can't recall just now. Can someone point me in some direction?



cheers
andre
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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Richard Gaskin]

Dan Shafer wrote:
And if you haven't yet  seen 
Writely, I suggest you check it out; the day of the service- based word 
processor is soon to be here.


I did.  One word:  "Eeewww".  :)

As for the getting illustrators to draw in a web browser, or anyone else 
to let Microsoft force them to hand over data storage to them, we'll see.


I'll go so far as to say I see the field growing, definitely.  But I 
don't see it completely replacing desktop apps until the Internet is 
truly ubiquitous and we access it through heads-up displays on small 
systems in our shirt pocket.


So maybe in 10 years, but I'm not ditching all my apps on until then.

I see the world as big enough for both.  But to say it all must be only 
one way sounds too much like Microsoft just overcorrecting a bad turn


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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RE: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[John Tregea]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for this posting, I have now subscribed to your blog. While I am here
I wanted to say that your HyperCard Scripting book was an absolute gem. It
was a pleasure to read and a perfectly structured reference for the
environment. I am looking forward to getting as much pleasure from your
'Revolution' book...

Kind regards

John Tregea
Technology Director
Debraneys
www.debraneys.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:38 AM
To: Revolution List
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].

I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c66aaec  
that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in the  
programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction for  
years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have now  
tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge, alright, but  
perhaps not in the way I intended.

My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as a  
(probably ad-supported) Web service.

Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well be).

Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo them  
here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects everyone on  
this list, IMNSHO.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com


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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Dan Shafer]

Richard

You said, quoting from your wonderful "Beyond the Browser" piece:

   "Many articles have been published extolling the
virtues of Browser-based applications, but few
   (if any) of these were written in one...”

Beg to differ. The Winer blog post that released these articles, the  
blog post that I found that pointed me to them and my blog post were  
all written in a browser-based application. And if you haven't yet  
seen Writely, I suggest you check it out; the day of the service- 
based word processor is soon to be here.


On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


As long as folks use local data, there will be desktop apps.


There is no necessary connection between where data is and where the  
app is. That's just today's temporary model.





-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com


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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Dan Shafer]

The fact that one such effort failed -- or even that a bunch of such  
efforts failed -- is irrelevant in the face of the new market  
realities. Particularly the ad supported software model is one that I  
think has a tremendous amount of potential to be disruptive.


Some people may well want to continue to pay premium prices for  
software so that they can keep their data on their local drives, but:  
(a) those people will eventually have to give way to the market  
forces if for no other reason than that all the software publishers  
head over there; and (b) there really needn't be a connection between  
where the software is and where the data is unless the user wants  
such a connection.


The success of products like Hotmail and GMail (among others) paves  
the way for this new reality. I know there are a lot of folks who  
think I'm all wet here. It's OK. I'm sticking with my analysis.


Dan

On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Brian Maher wrote:


Dan,

The company I work for tried this model (application service  
provider .. i.e. you rent the software) and it did not work well at  
all.  The simple fact is that people will always want to "own" both  
their data and the app that manipulates it.  Will some people use  
this?  Yes.  Will most use it?  No.


Personally, I see the world eventually moving to more desktop apps  
which use the internet (specifically http/htttps) as a transport  
protocol for data (think desktop app that talks http/htttps to  
apache which in turn invokes the requested cgi/servlet to process  
the sent data and send back a response).


Brian

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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Andre Garzia]

Dan,

I was going to comment this on your blog, but I fell this will be a  
big email and I know blog comment engines are not suited for this (by  
the way, where is your RSS feed?).


I read the memos and I follow slashdot, osnews and a couple other  
sites with religious practice, I also am a subscriber for Doctor  
Dobbs Journal for I fell that before anything happens in the world of  
computing, they will shout. I also know that people here are much  
more experienced than I so my takes might sound naive. Well, enough  
off topic talking, let us get on topic.


We've be hearing this for a while, which does not make it true or  
false. The mais question I'd ask is: "Is the Web ready to hijack the  
desktop?". We live in a world of almost ubiquitous networking but  
there are times when one is not network, those times the web cannot  
handle. What if you need to use word processor on a vacation where no  
net access is available. For this kind of task, the desktop will  
always be there, even if the desktop moves toward being a single- 
machine-network. But if we think we're talking about a always present  
network with large enough broadband to make the packed juggling fast  
we need to think about some other issues.


User Interface. Browsers were created to display hypertext. All the  
rest was hacked inside. I know xul can create complex user  
interfaces, but we must remember that using AJAX and that means using  
CSS and HTML to construct user interfaces is not the easiest thing on  
earth. One thing is to worry about linux, windows and macs, other  
thing is to worry about each version of safari, mozilla, firefox for  
each platform, this and we're not even entereing the amazing realm of  
screen resolution and what does pesky little Firefox extensions can  
do with rendering of your website. Meaning it's harder to create a  
user interface for web based apps than it is to create for desktop  
apps. Next problem is session management.


The web was never created to be a place where you needed complex  
session management. Cookies were the simplest thing ever and they  
work fine for simple web stuff like shopping cart and user  
autentication. Now think of all things a desktop app needs to track  
and thing of the stateless nature of the web. Unless people invent  
some new way to store runtime information with a web browser, there  
will be no sane way to track runtime info. If you going to use a mix  
of server stored vars and javascript engine vars in memory then allow  
me to drive you to the most fricking thing ever to appear on your  
AJAX neighbourhood, BOOKMARKS!


We all know about the asynchronous nature of AJAX apps. Keep  
everyhing on the client machine, do asynchronous trips to the server  
when you need info from it. What happens if the user Bookmarks? After  
fiddling with the app, the user goes there and press "add bookmark".  
This add bookmark is not like a "freeze state" from emulators, when  
you try to recall that URL, the things that were on memory will not  
be anymore, this alone can break most AJAX apps. Not only bookmark  
but the most simple go back and go forward of browsers will wreck  
most web apps. Try fiddling with that while gMail is thinking, you'll  
see it getting lost pretty soon.


Meaning, it's hard to present a nice UI, it's hard to track runtime  
data and it's not user friendly, the nature of bookmarks, go forward  
and go back makes the browser experience of AJAX app very bug- 
friendly. I'll not dive into the beauty of Javascript as an app  
development language mixed with HTML, CSS and XML. Note that I havn't  
said things are not possible, but that they are hard to the point of  
being annoying and bug-friendly. That's why I don't think we'll be  
leaving the desktop soon, at least, not until someone present a  
better language than javascript, a better way to track and save  
runtime data than cookies and a better user interface than "hack your  
own".


Now where we stand? We have the dreamcard player which is smaller  
than most browser downloads and solves all kinds of problems quoted  
above. Revolution stacks can handle vars in a sane way, can provide  
any UI we need and can save/restore data easily. And they can be  
loaded on demand from the network. We have the technology everyone is  
looking for and yet, we're also lost. The problem we face is like the  
chicken and egg problem, third party cannot execute rev code if they  
don't download the player, if they're going to download the player  
they might just download a standalone. If we could make the player, a  
plugin and make the browser fetch it if needed, things would be  
easier... The problem is that since everyone and his dog got a  
browser installed, we're trying to hack apps into browser technology  
instead of trying to make a breakthru on network app tech.


We have the dreamcard player which is the most advanced and friendly  
thing ever. Before the dreamcard player, I used 

Re: serios problem with sql command

[Hershel Fisch]

On 11/3/05 8:35 AM, "Alessandro Pisoni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Looks like u r missing the "'" surrounding the values.
Hershel
> 
> Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not
> work into my db sql.
> 
> get revOpenDatabase
> ("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","") //
> alessandropisoni is administrator fullcontrol
> revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
> 22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?
> 
> i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3
> I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get
> revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!
> 
> 
> Cordiali saluti
> Alessandro Pisoni
> 
> ==
> System.ini
> Via Grandi 5
> 20062 Cassano d'Adda (MI)
> Tel. 0363-361487 Fax 1782260060 Cell. 335-440150
> URL: www.system-ini.it   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Brian Maher]

Dan,

The company I work for tried this model (application service  
provider .. i.e. you rent the software) and it did not work well at  
all.  The simple fact is that people will always want to "own" both  
their data and the app that manipulates it.  Will some people use  
this?  Yes.  Will most use it?  No.


Personally, I see the world eventually moving to more desktop apps  
which use the internet (specifically http/htttps) as a transport  
protocol for data (think desktop app that talks http/htttps to apache  
which in turn invokes the requested cgi/servlet to process the sent  
data and send back a response).


Brian

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Imitated multi-thread

[Hershel Fisch]

Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by using a few
separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
Thanks, Hershel

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Re: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Richard Gaskin]

Dan Shafer wrote:
My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  leaked 
Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  indirectly linked 
in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  desktop app are indeed 
finally numbered. At best, we will see  desktops reduced to being 
containers for ultra-thin clients and  specialized Internet browsing 
tools while *everything else* runs as a  (probably ad-supported) Web 
service.


Heaven help those of us who compute on trains and airplanes. :)

The observation from my "Beyond the Browser" article still stands:

   "Many articles have been published extolling the
virtues of Browser-based applications, but few
   (if any) of these were written in one...”



As long as folks use local data, there will be desktop apps.

I would encourage Microsoft to go down this proposed road. If they turn 
MS Word into a browser service it'll finally kill their stranglehold on 
that market, and open it up to word processors that still make sense.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
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Re: Buggy debugger -- solved?

[Timothy Miller]

Hi Mark,

I guess I submitted BZ report #3086, on 8-26-2005. I think I've 
upgraded to 2.6.1 since then. I originally isolated the problem in 
2.5. It does seem to resemble bug 329, doesn't it?


Maybe Rev should consider putting up a "workaround page" for issues 
like this, when workarounds are available, pending bug fixes. (A wiki 
would serve the same purpose, of course. Maybe that's gonna happen.)



Cheers,


Tim


Tim,

I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you had 
with debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you 
stack to me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 329 
of the Bugzilla database.


In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug mode. 
It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your stack, maybe 
RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.


Best,

Mark


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Re: Slow screen refresh in Windows

[Cubist]

sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Try using a JPEG, they are much smaller - that same routine runs in 91
>milliseconds when using a JPEG set at quality level 10 in Photoshop (which
>is nearly loseless). In fact for on-screen use you can save a JPEG down
>to about 5 in Photoshop without any serious degradation in quality.
   Maybe. It *strongly* depends on exactly what's *in* the image you're 
working with. You should always have the "Preview" checkbox checked when you 
save 
an image as JPEG, so you can see for yourself how badly your image gets 
distorted as you reduce the quality level.
   In addition, you might want to consider Photoshop's Save As Web function, 
which gives you fine-grained control over various adjustments, lets you reduce 
the filesize down to pretty much any arbitrary figure, and also lets you 
compare the untouched image to 1-3 different versions with different sets of 
adjustments. Me, I use Save As Web religiously for all the graphics in my 
fantasy-and-science-fiction webzines TSAT (http://tsat.transform.to or 
http://tsat.xepher.net) and ANTHRO (http://anthrozine.com).
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Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

[Dan Shafer]

It's not on my site. I'm just one of the Rev guys hanging out here.  
Chipp Walters did this cool plugin.


You can find a link to it at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm

Once there, click on the "Download Plugins" link in the left column  
and follow the directions. altFldHeader is most of the way down the  
page where the plugins are listed.



On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:


Dan,

I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?

greetings,

Ton


On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:

Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http:// 
www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.



On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:



Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
something else placed above the field?

If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
  
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :


I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
time ago...


I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
the field will differ also each time.


I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
item the user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?


The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist  
of more then one word each.


Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,




So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Dan Shafer]

I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].


I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c66aaec  
that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in the  
programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction for  
years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have now  
tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge, alright, but  
perhaps not in the way I intended.


My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as a  
(probably ad-supported) Web service.


Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well be).


Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo them  
here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects everyone on  
this list, IMNSHO.


-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com


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Metacard user

[John Vokey]

Yup, me.

On 9-Nov-05, at 10:58 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


is there anyone still using Metacard?

cheers
Xavier


--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See 

-Dr. John R. Vokey



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RE: serios problem with sql command

[Harvey Toyama]

Hi Alessandro,
If this is your code,

get revOpenDatabase 
("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","")
revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL, 22)"

then it looks like you forgot the semicolon, e.g.,

revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
22);"

-- Harvey
-- 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alessandro
Pisoni
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:35 AM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: serios problem with sql command


Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not  
work into my db sql.

get revOpenDatabase 
("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","") // 
alessandropisoni is administrator fullcontrol
revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL, 
22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?

i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3
I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get  
revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!


Cordiali saluti
Alessandro Pisoni

==
System.ini
Via Grandi 5
20062 Cassano d'Adda (MI)
Tel. 0363-361487 Fax 1782260060 Cell. 335-440150
URL: www.system-ini.it   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

[Ton Kuypers]

Dan,

I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?

greetings,

Ton


On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:

Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http:// 
www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.



On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:



Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
something else placed above the field?

If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
  
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :


I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
time ago...


I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
the field will differ also each time.


I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
item the user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?


The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
more then one word each.


Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,




So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[J. Landman Gay]

Jan Sælid wrote:

So...

If I understand this right the "Tab Panel" is just a button. And the 
face of the button is what changes.

Ok.
But...The "face"? What is the face made of? Polygons? Lines?

The reason I'm making a fuzz about this is that I would really like to 
make a button
that behaves like that, instead of making 2 to 10 buttons in a group. It 
saves space if you can make a button behave like that.
And I think it is much cleaner to have 1 object instead of a lot in a 
group. (just for references)
I don't like to use groups all the time, because I don't want to have to 
many objects in my stack.


A tab button is just another style of menu button. Instead of popping 
down like a regular menu button, all the contents are displayed at once, 
each one in a separate tab. Other than appearance, you work with tab 
buttons just as you do menus. The text (that is, the content) of the 
button becomes the items listed in the tabs. When a user chooses a tab, 
a "menupick" message is sent. In the case of tab buttons, the menupick 
message contains two parameters instead of the usual one: the name of 
the tab the user clicked on, and the name of the tab that was previously 
selected.


To make a tab button functional, you script behaviors that use either 
groups or cards. The simplest way is to use cards. When a tab is 
clicked, you go to the card corresponding to that menu choice. (In this 
case, make sure your tab button is in a background group that has been 
placed on each card.) Alternately, you can hide and show groups which 
correspond to the choice. This method keeps everything on a single card. 
In this case, the second parameter is helpful because it tells you which 
of the previously displayed contents you need to hide.


You are right that using a tab button is better than making your own tab 
panel. Not only is the hiliting and selection behavior taken care of for 
you, but the button will be drawn with the correct appearance for the 
current operating system.


In the scripting conference stack "Backgrounds and groups" there is an 
example of using a tab button. There is another example in the 
"Controls" scripting conference stack. Both are located here:



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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[ANN] Smart Script Search

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi all,

I have uploaded to Rev Online (user: So Smart Software) a little  
utility I wrote for my needs but which might appear useful.
This utility parses all scripts in any open stack in order to find  
all lines where any string is present AND any another one is absent.
For instance, if you specify Search for lines of code with "put" and  
without "before,after,into,\" a list all forgotten lines you have  
used to place a debug info in the message box will be displayed. A  
click opens the selected script and scrolls it to the right place for  
verification and correction.
This utility allows all combinations, find again all comments,  
special tags and more...

Enjoy :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. As this stack is modeless, you will use the contextual menu  
(right click on any part of the window) to save it on your hard disk.


So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

[Dan Shafer]

Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http:// 
www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.



On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:


Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
something else placed above the field?

If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
  
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :

I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
time ago...


I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
the field will differ also each time.


I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
item the user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?


The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
more then one word each.


Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,



So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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Re: Buggy debugger -- solved?

[Timothy Miller]

Hi Mark,

I found a workaround. I can debug a bg script with no problem as long 
as I do it from card 1 of that bg. Otherwise, the debugger window 
opens, but it does not debug. Several subscribers have replicated the 
problem, and the workaround.  It's not a big deal if you know the 
workaround. If not, it can be very frustrating.


I have version 2.6.1. It's not fixed yet. I believe it has been BZ'd.

I'll take a look at bug 329.

Best regards,


Tim


Tim,

I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you had 
with debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you 
stack to me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 329 
of the Bugzilla database.


In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug mode. 
It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your stack, maybe 
RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.


Best,

Mark

P.S. I'm quoting the entire previous message to make it easier to 
recall the discussion.



Timothy Miller wrote:
It looks like this thread might die. I hope not. I hope a 
knowledgeable someone is going to reply. I'd sure appreciate it. 
I'm depending on you guys. I've searched the docs, learned nothing, 
and taken all advice offered so far. Where else can I turn?


The gist is, the debugger works fine in stack scripts, but I am not 
able to debug any background script. I'm talking about bg scripts 
that work perfectly, every time.


If I move any background script to the stack script, the debugger 
works perfectly. I can replicate the problem, every time. If I 
split a sequence of handlers between a background script and a 
stack script, I can debug those in the stack, but not those in the 
background.


Is this a bug or a feature? Is it well known? Documented? If so, 
where? If it's a bug, has it been reported? Has it been fixed?



Cheers,


Tim


On 7/11/05 8:34 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:


The details of my debugger frustration, previously described:

It works fine on, for example, a simple mouseUp script in a 
simple button. However, if the button sends a message to a 
handler in a stack script (for instance), which then sends 
another message to another handler, nested or not, the debugger 
won't follow along. "Script debug mode" is definitely turned 
on. Step Into, etc., are absent and/or dimmed out, typically. 
Sometimes, I can see the script window open, several windows 
back, but I can't get to it until the script is done executing. 
I've tried setting multiple breakpoints in each handler, tried 
setting breakpoints by script. The script rolls right past them.



I think Eric mentioned this after you wrote last time, but the 
debugger doesn't track "send to" messages. It tracks everything 
else, but if you "send" a handler to another object the debugger 
won't follow along.





Thanks to Eric, Jacque and Mark on this thread. And thanks to Dan, again.

First, let me clarify what happens, and what doesn't. The script 
window opens at the breakpoint, but it does not come to the front, 
and the script does not pause at the breakpoint. After the script 
is done executing, I can move the script window to the front, but 
it does me no good.


Oops! I just solved part of the puzzle, but mysteries remain. Feel 
free to skip to the second row of asterisks if you want. The 
details lie between the asterisks if anyone is interested.



** the dull details, perhaps now irrelevant, follow:


Here's a typical sequence of events.

On mouseup
get this
put that into field "theotherthing"
etc.
 goForIt -- this is a message sent to the background script. 
The bg script does receive it, and the script executes fine, but I 
can't debug it.

end mouseup

Now, in the background script

On goForIt
 handler1 -- this massages some data, without changing stacks 
or backgrounds. It terminates, so the script moves onto the next 
handler in goForIt

 handler2 -- more of the same
 handler3 -- this goes to another stack, picks up some data 
and returns. It also terminates
 handler4 -- this is a handler that doesn't terminate. The 
next handler is nested, in other words. Depending on an operator, 
it calls either handler5 or handler6

end goForIt

The command "send" does not appear anywhere in this sequence.

In reaction to the good comments of the good people on this 
thread, and also in reaction to my desire not to look like a 
whiner or an idiot, I re-tested. Same results. As follows:


If I put the breakpoint in the button, the button script does 
open, and I can "step into" through the lines of the button. Once 
the script gets to the goForIt message, the script executes 
without pausing, even though the window of the bg script opens.


If I put the breakpoint at the beginning of the goForIt handler in 
the bg script, at the the handler1 message, at the beginning of 
the handler1 handler, in the middle of the ha

Re: Synchronization puzzle - take care!

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi David,

Just use the contextual menu as I explained it in a previous post to  
Jan (4 hours ago) and toplevel the answer dialogue :-)

All is now accessible...
If you are asked to save the dialogue when closing it, just don't  
save it ;-)


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 22:55, David Bovill a écrit :

Now the question is  - is there a way to cancel an answer dialogue?  
Command period does not work - unless you are lucky and the script  
loop is long - sometimes I manage to break out. I think it would be  
very useful if there was a way to do this as the only way I know is  
to force quit and loose all your unsaved data!



So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

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Re: Synchronization puzzle - take care!

[David Bovill]

Thanks for posting this Alex - word of warning and feature request  
for RunRev - or is as ever there a way I haven't spotted?


First the warning - downloading the stack "Networked Address Book"  
from revOnline automatically asked me to locate x,y, z - can't  
remember - to which I naturally said no - then got myslef into an  
endless loop of answer dialogues!


Now the question is  - is there a way to cancel an answer dialogue?  
Command period does not work - unless you are lucky and the script  
loop is long - sometimes I manage to break out. I think it would be  
very useful if there was a way to do this as the only way I know is  
to force quit and loose all your unsaved data!


Easy to do - done it many times myself !

On 9 Nov 2005, at 20:10, Alex Tweedly wrote:

The synch method I used is described in http://lists.runrev.com/ 
pipermail/use-revolution/2005-January/049974.html
along with some justification for why this method is needed  
(basically, I needed a scheme with no central "master" copy, and  
the ability to synch together any two copies that happen to come  
together at any time).


Would love to have a look - but scared to download again now :(

The sync idea is (I think) good and general (I use it for address,  
calendar and notes - but the sync'ing is done without regard to the  
content). The stack is usable, but has more rough edges than it  
does smooth bits.


I noticed :)
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Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

[Ton Kuypers]

:-)))

Eric, thanks!!!

I've never used the link-stuff and had no idea where to start, but  
you got me going, I've solved the challenge thanks to you!


many thanks again,

Ton.


On 9-nov-05, at 22:29, Eric Chatonet wrote:


Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
something else placed above the field?

If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
  
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :


I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
time ago...


I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
the field will differ also each time.


I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
item the user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?


The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
more then one word each.


Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,




So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: Fwd: Revolution and SERVICE USB -hardware control with REV

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Stephen,

There is definitely a difference in performance. If you need to 
read from the Service USB device every few milliseconds 
--something between 50 and 100 millisecs-- to get accurate 
results, you just can't do that with a simple do as AppleScript 
command, but you can with a good external.


Every time you use AppleScript in Revolution, it compiles the 
script. This slows down performance extremely compared to e.g. 
HyperCard and SuperCard. To work around this problem, the larger 
part of your code will have to consist of AppleScript. For 
example you can create an applet that keep running and interacts 
with Rev.


It would be very interesting if B&K oHG included an external for 
Rev with their device, as they used to do for HyperCard. They 
would also have a significant competitive advantage, if they did.


Best,

Mark


Stephen Barncard wrote:

Continuing the thread about machine control...
I read the specs from
http://www.bkohg.de/service_e.html

and wrote requesting info about more directly connecting Rev.
Marco Bönig wrote back and suggested using their Applescript interface.

Would there be an advantage in having an XCMD do this instead of 
Applescript? Would there be some latency in using Applescript instead of 
directly?


I don't need this now, but I figure sometime in the future I will. I 
often end up in strange hardware-software lashups.


stephen barncard



From: Marco Bönig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Revolution and SERVICE USB
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:52:35 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Dear Mr. Barncard,

it's funny. We got a lot of requests about Revolution and we think, we 
had forgotten to support Revolution. Sorry for that.


However, we tested our Interface on MacOSX with Revolution and it 
works. Revolution can control AppleScript and AppleScript can control 
SERVICE USB plus. For example, to set the output value to 85 (= 
01010101 binary) the syntax is:


do "set SERVICE output value 85" as applescript

We have no sample stack yet, but we will create a sample stack, 
starting in a few days.


SERVICE USB is a Mac-only product. Maybe it is a good idea to work 
with Revolution and SERVICE USB on a PC. But we have no resources to 
handle support for an additional platform, like PC and Windows. Thus 
we have no plans to create a PC-Version.


If you are a hardcore system-programmer, we can explain the SERVICE 
USB low level protocol to you and try to help creating a PC Version.


best regards
Marco Boenig

Marco Bönig  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bönig und Kallenbach oHG Tel. 0231/753650
Lindemannstr. 25 Fax: 0231/753659
D-44137 Dortmund http://bkohg.com



Am 04.11.2005 um 21:18 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

I think you have a great product, with many uses. I use a software 
platform called Runtime Revolution


http://www.runrev.com/

- it's an evolution of an earlier product called Metacard. It's a RAD 
that is the clear and superior succesor to Hypercard.


Since it appears that you have created middleware for almost every 
other development platform, I wonder if you would consider helping us 
Rev users get connected to your interfaces. You'll find a lot of 
folks that will help you do it on our rather friendly email list.  
Right now I'd be happy with a Mac XCMD that would work with Rev, but 
I'm sure the others would love a PC version at some point.


OR perhaps you have a SDK that might point the way.






--

eHUG coordinator
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

Please inform me about vacancies in the field of
general economics at your institute. I am also looking
for new freelance programming projects.

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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Jan Sælid]

So...

If I understand this right the "Tab Panel" is just a button. And the face of 
the button is what changes.

Ok.
But...The "face"? What is the face made of? Polygons? Lines?

The reason I'm making a fuzz about this is that I would really like to make 
a button
that behaves like that, instead of making 2 to 10 buttons in a group. It 
saves space if you can make a button behave like that.
And I think it is much cleaner to have 1 object instead of a lot in a group. 
(just for references)
I don't like to use groups all the time, because I don't want to have to 
many objects in my stack.


Jan


Jan,


tab tab panel is a button that looks like a tab panel, it just looks  like, 
when you press any of the options a simple menuPick message is  triggered 
and the face of the button changes but no control is hidden  or displayed, 
you must take care of those things your self. You can  hide/show groups or 
traverse cards. It's just a nice button that  triggers menuPick message 
like all "menu like" buttons.


I don't think there's a huge inner working since all is done by  yourself, 
you need to code your tab panel, all the IDE does is  provide you with nice 
graphics and a pre-packed button.



cheers
andre


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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Eric Chatonet]

Jan,

One add-up to the excellent reply from Andre: all these buttons use  
images as icons.
You will find them in the revIcons stack (use the app browser as I  
told you yet :-) to see all originals of them.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 22:27, Andre Garzia a écrit :



On Nov 9, 2005, at 7:22 PM, Jan Sælid wrote:


Hi again Eric
(Thanks for the patience)

I mean the "Tab panel" that you drag from tools to your stack when  
you want a tab-panel. When I look at the properties
this is a button. How is this possible? If you want to do build a  
tab panel from the ground up you usually have make a group or  
multiple cards.


What is the "inner workings" going on here?

(I hope this is clearerSuddenly my confidence in English went  
on a trip)


WR
Jan



Jan,

tab tab panel is a button that looks like a tab panel, it just  
looks like, when you press any of the options a simple menuPick  
message is triggered and the face of the button changes but no  
control is hidden or displayed, you must take care of those things  
your self. You can hide/show groups or traverse cards. It's just a  
nice button that triggers menuPick message like all "menu like"  
buttons.


I don't think there's a huge inner working since all is done by  
yourself, you need to code your tab panel, all the IDE does is  
provide you with nice graphics and a pre-packed button.



cheers
andre



So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: Find the item a user clicked on...

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
something else placed above the field?

If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
  
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:25, Ton Kuypers a écrit :

I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
time ago...


I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above the  
field will differ also each time.


I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user clicks  
on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what item the  
user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?


The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
more then one word each.


Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,



So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Andre Garzia]

On Nov 9, 2005, at 7:22 PM, Jan Sælid wrote:


Hi again Eric
(Thanks for the patience)

I mean the "Tab panel" that you drag from tools to your stack when  
you want a tab-panel. When I look at the properties
this is a button. How is this possible? If you want to do build a  
tab panel from the ground up you usually have make a group or  
multiple cards.


What is the "inner workings" going on here?

(I hope this is clearerSuddenly my confidence in English went  
on a trip)


WR
Jan



Jan,

tab tab panel is a button that looks like a tab panel, it just looks  
like, when you press any of the options a simple menuPick message is  
triggered and the face of the button changes but no control is hidden  
or displayed, you must take care of those things your self. You can  
hide/show groups or traverse cards. It's just a nice button that  
triggers menuPick message like all "menu like" buttons.


I don't think there's a huge inner working since all is done by  
yourself, you need to code your tab panel, all the IDE does is  
provide you with nice graphics and a pre-packed button.



cheers
andre





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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Jan Sælid]

Hi again Eric
(Thanks for the patience)

I mean the "Tab panel" that you drag from tools to your stack when you want 
a tab-panel. When I look at the properties
this is a button. How is this possible? If you want to do build a tab panel 
from the ground up you usually have make a group or multiple cards.


What is the "inner workings" going on here?

(I hope this is clearerSuddenly my confidence in English went on a 
trip)


WR
Jan


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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Jan,

Could you be more precise: what do you call the 'the built in (IDE  
stack) tab panel'?


Le 9 nov. 05 à 21:45, Jan Sælid a écrit :


Thank you
both Eric and Andre

Now that I have "opened" the IDE stacks for reading, I guess I will  
be occupied for a couple of weeks:-)


I'd still like an answer to one of my questions though. (If there  
is one. I'm sure there is...)


"the built in (IDE stack) tab panel  is actually a button. How is  
this possible/done?"


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Jan Sælid]

Thank you
both Eric and Andre

Now that I have "opened" the IDE stacks for reading, I guess I will be 
occupied for a couple of weeks:-)


I'd still like an answer to one of my questions though. (If there is one. 
I'm sure there is...)


"the built in (IDE stack) tab panel  is actually a button. How is this 
possible/done?"


Jan



Hi Jan,



With the contextual menus:
1. Open the Rev Preferences (general pane) and check the "Contextual 
menus work in Revolution windows".
2. Use the contextual menu (ctrl/right click) on any object in the  IDE to 
access its properties and its script.



With the App Browser:
1. Check the "View/Revolution UI Elements in Lists" menu item.
2. All IDE stacks will appear in the App Browser.



IDE stacks are one of the best tool for learning :-)



Hope this helps,



Best Regards from Paris,



Eric Chatonet.


Le 9 nov. 05 à 17:36, Jan Sælid a écrit :

The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it  look 
and work like I want it to.
As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious  about 
is how the built in tab panel
in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built  in 
controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel  is 
actually a button. How is this possible?


I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for  those 
built in controls. Like the scrollbar.


Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.



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Find the item a user clicked on...

[Ton Kuypers]

hi,

I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long time  
ago...


I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above the  
field will differ also each time.


I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user clicks  
on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what item the  
user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?


The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
more then one word each.


Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com



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Re: Synchronization puzzle.

[Alex Tweedly]

David Bovill wrote:

I'd be interested in this for the Address Book app I'm working on.  
Not addressed the issue of data synchronisation in any depth yet...


The stack is now on revonline (username alextweedly, category: General), 
called something like "Networked Address Book".


The synch method I used is described in 
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-January/049974.html
along with some justification for why this method is needed (basically, 
I needed a scheme with no central "master" copy, and the ability to 
synch together any two copies that happen to come together at any time).


The sync idea is (I think) good and general (I use it for address, 
calendar and notes - but the sync'ing is done without regard to the 
content). The stack is usable, but has more rough edges than it does 
smooth bits.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005

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Re: Access Address Book or iCal

[Andre Garzia]

On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:30 PM, David Bovill wrote:


On 6 Nov 2005, at 19:52, woodywoodpecker wrote:

Do you use Applescript or have you find a way to read the  
"AddressBook.data"??


AppleScript.

Also it reads and writes to a shared LDAP address book and I am  
trying to figure out a simple way to store xtra metadata in the  
Apple Address Book sensibly.


David,

I have made some experiments with vObjects (vCard and iCal files). My  
routines are a little naive since they where more like hacks. If they  
were to be put to real work, they needed some better error handling  
and veryfication. But they are here:


http://www.soapdog.org/vObjectPackage.rev

Also included in the stack are the RFC for vCard and iCal which are  
both, very good reading.


cheers
andre



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Re: Synchronization puzzle.

[David Bovill]

I'd be interested in this for the Address Book app I'm working on.  
Not addressed the issue of data synchronisation in any depth yet...


On 8 Nov 2005, at 18:22, Dave LeYanna wrote:

I was searching the archives looking for some information about a  
PIM lib or stack that may be available and noticed your post about  
syncronization issues you were looking at. Did you ever finish that  
addressbook app? would you be interested in sharing or selling it?


We need to develop a PIM and an address book is part of such an  
application.


We probally will be using PostgreSQL on a server with SQLLite on  
the desktops that will need to sync once connected to the network  
or via the internet.

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Re: Access Address Book or iCal

[David Bovill]

On 6 Nov 2005, at 19:52, woodywoodpecker wrote:

Do you use Applescript or have you find a way to read the  
"AddressBook.data"??


AppleScript.

Also it reads and writes to a shared LDAP address book and I am  
trying to figure out a simple way to store xtra metadata in the Apple  
Address Book sensibly.

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Re: Sound in Linux

[Girard Damien]

Revolution support only Xanim under linux. You can vote to this
enhancement request for the support of an another media player under
linux. (Mplayer by exemple or the Xine lib engine).

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1363

Regards,

Damien Girard

Le samedi 05 novembre 2005 à 05:25 -0500, Mathewson a écrit :
> Having spent some time on the first cycle of my EFL system
> development - making the stacks using my licensed version
> of Dreamcard - I popped them onto my "new" PC (PIII, 600
> MHz, 128 MB RAM - Kubuntu 5.10) - A BIG THANK YOU TO NOVELL
> for FREE RR 2.2.1 - and when I clicked on the button "Brown
> Cow" instead of hearing my growly voice saying "Brown Cow"
> (No rocket science round here - just English for 6 year-old
> Bulgarians) I heard something very like a cat being run
> over by a truck . . .
> 
> Hard science: recorded the sound on a Mac using the Sound
> Studio program that came bundled with the 10.2 install -
> Mono, 44.000, AIFF
> 
> I suspect this is not the right format for Linux, but can
> find nothing in either RR or MC documentation.
> 
> More rests on this than my poxy little language school as
> the resulting programs (standalones) for Linux will be
> uploaded to Ubuntu for distribution in Africa (Mind you, I
> can't help feeling sorry for the poor Africans having to
> put up with my Brown Cows).
> 
> I hope, hope, hope that I can get sound to behave in Linux
> without resort to the superannuated and crappy xanim. And,
> Mike Talluto, as my name is mud in RR circles (!!!) I
> cannot get into Bugzilla, etc. and say my piece about movie
> files and so forth with RR/MC in Linux.
> 
> I suppose the bottom line is that I shall have to have a
> very dirty weekend embedding every possible sound
> configuration I can think of in a stack on the Mac and them
> messing around with it on the Kubuntu PC - although a
> little voice tells me that this  is rather inefficient.
> 
> I would be extremely grateful for any help in this area.
> 
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
> __
> See Mathewson's software at:
> 
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
> ___
> ---
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> http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
> For All Your Mac Gear
> ---
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Re: Testing Standards

[Mark Wieder]

Tom-

Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 6:16:12 AM, you wrote:

> Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I have spent the
> last week and a half going over the specifications and using our Rev
> project as proof of concept. Since we are using an outside company  
> for the coding, they have a person doing the use-case scenarios and
> specs. They will also have a person writing the QA tests when all of
> this is done. So far I think we are on track with what you are  
> describing here. Having the Rev demo really makes all of this easier
> (for me). I just don't have the working experience in this process  
> and am a little nervous. Things like what are the next steps and are
> we on track and is this enough to describe etc. are what is  
> concerning me.

Some answers in brief here, but I suggest we take this offline because
I think it is rapidly getting OT and I don't expect there's a lot of
interest in the subject on the list. Also, if you ask any three people
these questions you're likely to get eight conflicting answers.

1. Make sure that the person writing the QA tests isn't the same
person writing the code. That never works.

1A. What is the person who's writing the QA tests using as a reference
to write them from? As a first pass, looking at the code isn't a good
idea - that resolves to the same thing as point 1. As a second pass,
though, white-box testing necessary, which leads to...

2. Code coverage is important: make sure that every line of code is
tested. I don't know what your budget is for QA, but there are various
tools out there for testing this. You want to make sure than each line
of code is hit at least once by some test case; every "if" conditional
path is tested; every "else" gets tested; every "if" has a matching
"else", etc. Code walkthroughs are very useful if you have the time
and budget to handle them.

Software testing is usually divided into: unit testing, functional and
boundary testing, integration testing, and regression testing.

Unit testing is what the developer does. Builds aren't handed off to
QA for further testing until all unit tests have passed. In Agile
(Extreme) Programming this is process is handled by writing the tests
first and then writing the code to pass the tests. Xtalk example:

-- spec says passwords have to be greater than five chars
function CheckPasswordLength
  -- EnterPassword returns true if password accepted
  if EnterPassword("") then
return false -- has to be greater than five chars
  end if
  if EnterPassword("hello") then
return false -- has to be greater than five chars
  end if
  if not EnterPassword("bonjour") then
return false -- should pass this one
  end if
  if EnterPassword("hello1234") then
return true -- are numbers OK? not clear from the spec
  end if
  return true
end CheckPasswordLength
-- now write the EnterPassword function so that CheckPasswordLength
passes

Functional and boundary tests are written make sure that the code does
what it's supposed to do and doesn't do what it's not supposed to do.
I'm reminded of Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in the Lethal Weapon
movies: "Is it 1-2-3 and we go on 4, or is it 1-2-3-4 and then we go?"
If the spec says that valid values are 0-100, you need to ensure that
negative values and values greater than 100 are rejected and you want
to make sure to test values of zero and 100 as well.

Integration testing is the next step - after the code has been tested
by itself, what happens when this part is put into the system? If this
is a module of a larger app that you've been testing, there may be new
use cases, and there may be interactions between the unit under test
and the larger environment.

Finally, regression testing is what happens when you get version 1.1?
Running all the tests again will probably bring up some problems
because some things have changed since the last version. The existing
test suite will have to be archived and modified to adapt to the
changes, new tests added for additional features, and most
importantly, the new build shouldn't breask any existing tests in
places that haven't been explicitly changed.

There are various tools available to automate these processes, but
they're pricey, have limitations in what they can and can't do, and
usually have steep learning curves.

> Do you recommend any 'good' books on this process? Maybe on what to
> expect in the specs? Maybe what is most often left out and or what  
> most often causes the most problems?

Again, this is probably a matter of personal taste. I'm fond of Cem
Kaner's books "Testing Computer Software" and "Lessons Learned in
Software Testing". The first is a classic, was out of print for some
time and is now back in a second edition with not much changed. This
means that the examples are all out of date (MSDOS and such), but if
you can ignore that the methodology is well thought out. The second I
enjoyed just as a fun read, but you have to be pretty weird to read a
book on software testing for fu

Re: Repeat for each

[Alex Tweedly]

Marty Knapp wrote:



I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more of 
these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When I 
filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast - 
about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the 
above method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'



That seems terribly slow to me :-)

I have a file with 120,000 records which look much like


2,908,597,451700,398,340,zxcv,3.5


and filtering that with "*zxcv*" takes about 80 - 85 msecs (i.e. less 
than a tenth of a second) on my 2-year old laptop.


(Note - only 1 in 1000 of the records match, so 120 total matches)

Doing the same thing in a repeat for loop takes slightly *less* time avg 
77 ms - here's the code :


on mouseUp
   put URL ("file:D:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/asdf.txt") into t
   put the millisecs into tStart
   filter t with "*" & "zxcv" & "*"
   put t into fld "Field"
   put the number of lines in fld "Field" && the millisecs - tStart & 
cr after msg

   put t into fld "Field"
  
   put URL ("file:D:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/asdf.txt") into t

   put the millisecs into tStart
   repeat for each line L in t
   if "zxcv" is in L then
   put L & cr after t1
   end if
   end repeat
   put "got" & cr & t1 into fld "FIeld"
   put the number of lines in fld "Field" && the millisecs - tStart & 
cr after msg
   
end mouseUp



Changing that to check which item has the "zxcv" makes it even faster - 
66 msec

code was:

   put the millisecs into tStart
   repeat for each line L in t
   if "zxcv" = item 7 of L then
   put L & cr after t1
   end if
   end repeat

I then tried it with a number (and using a variable instead of a 
constant), and it slowed down slightly to 92 msec


on tryit pNum
   put URL ("file:D:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/asdf.txt") into t
   put the millisecs into tStart
   repeat for each line L in t
   if  item 4 of L = pNum then
   put L & cr after t1
   end if
   end repeat
   put "got" & cr & t1 into fld "FIeld"
   put the number of lines in fld "Field" && the millisecs - tStart & 
cr after msg
  
end tryit


So then I tried making the item number and the value vary

Changing it to a more common match  (  >= 451700 giving 11881 matches) 
still only took 278 msec


When I use the 'repeat for each' to evaluate for 'word' it takes 1.5 
minutes. Where it really gets slow is evaluating the numbers. Most 
often what I need is a range of numbers, so would use greater than, 
less than, or both. Typically I would evaluate 2 of the numbers, but 
need to be able to evaluate all 8 items if needed. The numbers range 
from 0 to 8 digits, some whole numbers some fractional. I just did a 
test evaluating one number and it took 3.5 minutes. When I evaluated 2 
numbers it took 5.8 minutes.


There's something odd going on.



Do these numbers sound right? Or am I being a bozo somehow! I've been 
thinking that I should consider using either Valentina or altSQLite. 
Any input there? Is one more suited, easier or ???


Those numbers don't sound right to me. Can you send a sample of the data 
(just 2 or 3 records) to make sure I've not misinterpreted what the data 
looks like ? 
And then maybe send the code snippet that is taking so long 


Thanks

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005

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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Jan,

With the contextual menus:
1. Open the Rev Preferences (general pane) and check the "Contextual  
menus work in Revolution windows".
2. Use the contextual menu (ctrl/right click) on any object in the  
IDE to access its properties and its script.


With the App Browser:
1. Check the "View/Revolution UI Elements in Lists" menu item.
2. All IDE stacks will appear in the App Browser.

IDE stacks are one of the best tool for learning :-)

Hope this helps,

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 à 17:36, Jan Sælid a écrit :

The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it  
look and work like I want it to.
As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious  
about is how the built in tab panel
in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built  
in controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel  
is actually a button. How is this possible?


I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for  
those built in controls. Like the scrollbar.


Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.




So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Your quarterly reminder about Open Directory

[Richard Gaskin]

This is your quarterly Open Directory reminder:

Open Directory maintains a category for Transcript:


Of the many dozens of web sites offering Transcript-based plugins,
tutorials, tools, and more, only 26 have been posted there to date.

Open Directory is the world's largest human-edited directory, mirrored
at thousands of sites around the world and feeding the search engines of
Google, Yahoo, and most others.

Adding your listing there will not only help others find your stuff more
easily, but will also reflect well on the community as a whole by
letting folks know it's true size.

At the top of that page is a link titled "Suggest URL" - their
submission form only has four fields so it's a breeze to fill out:

- Site URL
- Title of Site
- Site Description
- Your E-mail Address


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Re: How is the built-in controls made?

[Andre Garzia]

On Nov 9, 2005, at 2:36 PM, Jan Sælid wrote:


Hi Folks

The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it  
look and work like I want it to.
As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious  
about is how the built in tab panel
in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built  
in controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel  
is actually a button. How is this possible?


I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for  
those built in controls. Like the scrollbar.


Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.


Jan


Jan,

first I need to apologize for it's to early here in Brazil, so my  
comments might be as fuzzy as my head and eyes right now. I don't  
know how the built in tab panel is made, but, if you want to roll you  
own it's pretty easy if you can create your own images. A simple recipe:


1) Create images with all you tabpanel options, hilited and not, for  
example a tab panel with three options, would need three images, one  
for each option on the front.


2) create a group with the image as "header" (tab panel location) and  
a work area (where your controls will appear).


3) On the spot the user might click to switch panel, you put a  
invisible button or control just to trap the mouseUp message. On that  
message you switch your tab panel image and work area controls...


This is a simple tab panel with custom UI. This will work and look  
the same way accross platforms. Probably the User Interface gurus  
here have some other options which will probably be better than mine,  
but this is a simple example indeed.


PS: I understood that you wanted to pick on scrolbar and tabpanel,  
but since, I don't really know how, I tried my best on a custom  
solution.


cheers
andre



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RE: Buggy debugger -- solved?

[MisterX]

 > The non-debug mode of the debugger is much needed for globals 
> debugging. Alas it doesn't do arrays (unless you get a new 
> mod release I mentioned earlier...) 

sorry - non related - I "qui pro quo"'d Mark and my brain
didn't register something! No rant or anything meant...

I just spent a big part of the day working on the mc variable watcher
and finishing some workflow issues with my old mc script editor...

is there anyone still using Metacard?

cheers
Xavier




> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 17:07
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: Buggy debugger -- solved?
> 
>  
> 
> > On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille
> 
> > In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of 
> debug mode. It 
> > should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
> > debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your 
> stack, maybe 
> > RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.
> Mark,
> 
> The non-debug mode of the debugger is much needed for globals 
> debugging. Alas it doesn't do arrays (unless you get a new 
> mod release I mentioned earlier...) 
> 
> Now, I tested Timothy's problem in a stack with a background 
> inserted the breakpoint. Launched the handler. The script 
> editor opened but no debugging going to work!!! oops...
> 
> Good call!!!
> 
> The debugging works ok in the 2.5 Rev version.
> 
> I would bugzill'it!
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo 
> 
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How is the built-in controls made?

[Jan Sælid]

Hi Folks

The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it look and 
work like I want it to.
As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious about is how 
the built in tab panel
in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built in controls 
is? I know how to make custom tab panel
and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel is actually 
a button. How is this possible?

I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for those built 
in controls. Like the scrollbar. 

Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.


Jan
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RE: Buggy debugger -- solved?

[MisterX]

 

> On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille

> In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug 
> mode. It should give some feedback to tell the user why it 
> can't continue debugging. If we can figure out what happened 
> with your stack, maybe RunRev can add some proper error 
> handling in the deugger.
Mark,

The non-debug mode of the debugger is much needed for globals
debugging. Alas it doesn't do arrays (unless you get a new mod
release I mentioned earlier...) 

Now, I tested Timothy's problem in a stack with a background
inserted the breakpoint. Launched the handler. The script editor 
opened but no debugging going to work!!! oops...

Good call!!!

The debugging works ok in the 2.5 Rev version.

I would bugzill'it!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 

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Re: Repeat for each

[Marty Knapp]

filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*" & \
 tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*"



I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more of 
these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When I 
filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast - 
about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the above 
method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'


When I use the 'repeat for each' to evaluate for 'word' it takes 1.5 
minutes. Where it really gets slow is evaluating the numbers. Most often 
what I need is a range of numbers, so would use greater than, less than, 
or both. Typically I would evaluate 2 of the numbers, but need to be 
able to evaluate all 8 items if needed. The numbers range from 0 to 8 
digits, some whole numbers some fractional. I just did a test evaluating 
one number and it took 3.5 minutes. When I evaluated 2 numbers it took 
5.8 minutes.


Do these numbers sound right? Or am I being a bozo somehow! I've been 
thinking that I should consider using either Valentina or altSQLite. Any 
input there? Is one more suited, easier or ???


Thanks again - you all are very helpful folks.


Marty Knapp
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Re: Buggy debugger -- solved?

[Mark Schonewille]

Tim,

I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you had 
with debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you 
stack to me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 
329 of the Bugzilla database.


In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug 
mode. It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't 
continue debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your 
stack, maybe RunRev can add some proper error handling in the 
deugger.


Best,

Mark

P.S. I'm quoting the entire previous message to make it easier 
to recall the discussion.



Timothy Miller wrote:
It looks like this thread might die. I hope not. I hope a knowledgeable 
someone is going to reply. I'd sure appreciate it. I'm depending on you 
guys. I've searched the docs, learned nothing, and taken all advice 
offered so far. Where else can I turn?


The gist is, the debugger works fine in stack scripts, but I am not able 
to debug any background script. I'm talking about bg scripts that work 
perfectly, every time.


If I move any background script to the stack script, the debugger works 
perfectly. I can replicate the problem, every time. If I split a 
sequence of handlers between a background script and a stack script, I 
can debug those in the stack, but not those in the background.


Is this a bug or a feature? Is it well known? Documented? If so, where? 
If it's a bug, has it been reported? Has it been fixed?



Cheers,


Tim



On 7/11/05 8:34 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:


The details of my debugger frustration, previously described:

It works fine on, for example, a simple mouseUp script in a simple 
button. However, if the button sends a message to a handler in a 
stack script (for instance), which then sends another message to 
another handler, nested or not, the debugger won't follow along. 
"Script debug mode" is definitely turned on. Step Into, etc., are 
absent and/or dimmed out, typically. Sometimes, I can see the 
script window open, several windows back, but I can't get to it 
until the script is done executing. I've tried setting multiple 
breakpoints in each handler, tried setting breakpoints by script. 
The script rolls right past them.



I think Eric mentioned this after you wrote last time, but the 
debugger doesn't track "send to" messages. It tracks everything else, 
but if you "send" a handler to another object the debugger won't 
follow along.





Thanks to Eric, Jacque and Mark on this thread. And thanks to Dan, again.

First, let me clarify what happens, and what doesn't. The script 
window opens at the breakpoint, but it does not come to the front, and 
the script does not pause at the breakpoint. After the script is done 
executing, I can move the script window to the front, but it does me 
no good.


Oops! I just solved part of the puzzle, but mysteries remain. Feel 
free to skip to the second row of asterisks if you want. The details 
lie between the asterisks if anyone is interested.



** the dull details, perhaps now irrelevant, 
follow:



Here's a typical sequence of events.

On mouseup
get this
put that into field "theotherthing"
etc.
 goForIt -- this is a message sent to the background script. The 
bg script does receive it, and the script executes fine, but I can't 
debug it.

end mouseup

Now, in the background script

On goForIt
 handler1 -- this massages some data, without changing stacks or 
backgrounds. It terminates, so the script moves onto the next handler 
in goForIt

 handler2 -- more of the same
 handler3 -- this goes to another stack, picks up some data and 
returns. It also terminates
 handler4 -- this is a handler that doesn't terminate. The next 
handler is nested, in other words. Depending on an operator, it calls 
either handler5 or handler6

end goForIt

The command "send" does not appear anywhere in this sequence.

In reaction to the good comments of the good people on this thread, 
and also in reaction to my desire not to look like a whiner or an 
idiot, I re-tested. Same results. As follows:


If I put the breakpoint in the button, the button script does open, 
and I can "step into" through the lines of the button. Once the script 
gets to the goForIt message, the script executes without pausing, even 
though the window of the bg script opens.


If I put the breakpoint at the beginning of the goForIt handler in the 
bg script, at the the handler1 message, at the beginning of the 
handler1 handler, in the middle of the handler1 handler, or all of the 
above, or do the same with any other handler in this sequence, the 
same thing happens. The script window opens, but it's not the front 
window, and the script runs to completion, without pausing. When the 
script has executed, the script window remains open.


After reading the docs again, I realized that I can initiate debugging 
when the error window opens. So, I deliberately placed an error at 
various points in the g

Re: Best Practices

[Erin D. Smale]

Hi John,

That would be Andre's commentary--I'm still getting through the primer 
myself. That said, you can get it here: 
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html


-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



John Tregea wrote:


Hi, Erin,

I was interested in your comments about the message primer by Dar Scott. I
am currently using an evaluation copy of Revolution. Is the primer only
available in the full version? Or is it someweher I could download it?

Thanks for your help.

Regards

John T

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:27 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Best Practices


On Nov 6, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Erin D. Smale wrote:

 

Also, the feedback cements my need to dive into the message  
hierachy and really wrap my head around it. I have Richard's  
article on tap and Dan's material is a good read. Geez...you guys  
were serious when you said message hierachy was important. ;-)


Thanks to all for your helpful explanations to and patience with  
this newbie.
   



Erin,

a very useful resource for understanding the message path, is the  
primer made by Dar Scott, I think it's the best resource ever. By  
carefully planning where your code goes, you can save a lot of  
coding. As time goes, you'll begin to develop your own style. There  
are coders here that make heavy use of libraries, others will insert  
all on stackscript and just hook the UI to it, others will make so  
many twists in the message path that their code will resemble a tight  
chain of whispers. The cool thing of Transcript is that it allows you  
to adapt Rev for your tastes and not the other way arround.


There's a scripting style guide that is used by many here that tells  
about how to prefix variables and stuff like that. Also the  
RevInterop group makes a nice guide that allows our stacks to  
interoperate in a sane way.


I remember when I first saw the message primer, before reading it,  
someone said: "in the end, you'll love the message path", and yes, I  
do love it.


Cheers
andre
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--

--

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com

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Re: Re: Testing Standards

[Malte Brill]

Hi Tom,


Do you recommend any 'good' books on this process? Maybe on what to
expect in the specs? Maybe what is most often left out and or what
most often causes the most problems?


maybe you like this arcticle by Joel on Software.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog36.html

Cheers,

Malte

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Re: Testing Standards

[Thomas McGrath III]

Mark,

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I have spent the  
last week and a half going over the specifications and using our Rev  
project as proof of concept. Since we are using an outside company  
for the coding, they have a person doing the use-case scenarios and  
specs. They will also have a person writing the QA tests when all of  
this is done. So far I think we are on track with what you are  
describing here. Having the Rev demo really makes all of this easier  
(for me). I just don't have the working experience in this process  
and am a little nervous. Things like what are the next steps and are  
we on track and is this enough to describe etc. are what is  
concerning me.


Do you recommend any 'good' books on this process? Maybe on what to  
expect in the specs? Maybe what is most often left out and or what  
most often causes the most problems?


Thanks again Mark,

Tom

On Nov 9, 2005, at 2:16 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:


What's worked best for me is a hard one to get everyone to sign onto,
but it's a matter of *not* coding and *not* writing tests until the
last phase of the project, but rather putting most of the effort into
getting the engineering specification document defined. Once that's
rock-solid and all the ambiguities are out of it then engineering can
start building to match the spec and QA can start building tests that
also meet the spec. Once engineering starts delivering builds to QA
then the tests should run without failure. When bugs are discovered
they are either the result of a) engineering not building in
conformance with the spec, b) QA not building their tests properly, or
c) an ambiguity in the spec that wasn't caught in the design process.

The a) and b) bugs are easy to sort out and assign to the proper party
for resolution. The exceptions are what are then brought to the bug
meetings to be resolved.

When the inevitable changes occur over the design life-cycle, those
changes are incorporated into the specification and both engineering
and QA make the appropriate modifications.

This design philosophy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the
Agile Programming folks. I spent a year and a half as QA lead on a
project following this method and delivered two award-winning products
reasonably on time (changes in requirements mid-project - gotta love
those marketing types) and within budget. The reason it's hard to sign
onto is that it requires a leap of faith in the process - people are
itchy to code and there's no product to show for maybe the first two
thirds of the develoopment cycle.

With rev there's a bit of a difference, since the product can be
storyboarded as a proof of concept for the client and then the
prototype later becomes the working model without having to start from
scratch again.

--
-Mark Wieder



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Re: Finding non-common elements in two arrays

[Wouter]

Hi again,

A little update on the intersectSpecial function
--> a bit speedier and 3 results in 1 array

function intersectSpecial pListA,pListB,@pR
  if char -1 of pListA is not cr then put cr after pListA
  replace cr with tab & "1" & cr in pListA
  split pListA with cr and tab
  repeat for each line i in pListB
add 2 to pListA[i]
  end repeat
  repeat for each line i in the keys of pListA
put i & cr after pR[pListA[i]]
  end repeat
  return the keys of pR <> ""
end intersectSpecial

on mouseUp
  put the millisecs into zap
  get intersectSpecial(fld 1,fld 2,a)
  put the millisecs - zap
  if it then
put "* Common in both:" & cr & a[3] after tList
put "* Unique in list A:" & cr & a[1] after tList
put "* Unique in list B:" & cr & a[2] after tList
put tList into fld 3
  else put it into fld 3
end mouseUp


Greetings,
Wouter



On 07 Nov 2005, at 01:05, Buster wrote:


function intersectSpecial pList1,pList2,pMode
  repeat for each line i in pList1
add 1 to a[i]
  end repeat
  repeat for each line i in pList2
add 2 to a[i]
  end repeat
  combine a with cr and tab
### elements only in pList1 --> 1
### elements only in pList2 --> 2
### elements in both lists --> 3
  if pMode = "bothCommon" then put "*"&tab&"3" into tFilter
  else  if pMode = "uniqueA" then put "*"&tab&"1" into tFilter
  else if pMode = "uniqueB" then put "*"&tab&"2" into tFilter
  else if pMode = "bothUnique" then put "*"&tab&"1,*" &tab&"2" into  
tFilter

  repeat for each item tFilterString in tFilter
put a into b
filter b with tFilterString
replace char 2 to -1 of tFilterString with "" in b
put b & cr after tList
  end repeat
  return tList
end intersectSpecial

on mouseUp
  put the millisecs into zap
  put intersectSpecial(fld 1,fld 2,"bothUnique") into fld 3
  put the millisecs - zap
end mouseUp

May be not a real speed monster but not bad either
(takes < 500 millisecs for 2 fields with > 25000 lines on an iMac  
G5 1.8 gHz)


Greetings,
Wouter

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Re: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack

[Klaus Major]

Hi Mark,


Klaus-

Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 2:39:02 PM, you wrote:


well, took me a bit longer since I am a german native speaker and
know how
to pronounce Adenauer correctly :-)


...then you must be familiar with his comrade, Evenanauer...


no, sorry, not really :-)

But we may be reaching the state of the last 2 syllables of this joke!

hour, pronounced in german = aua = OUCH :-D


-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Now back to work or we might be Luhsinganauer or 2 ;-)


Best

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de

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Re: Stange occurance with Variable Watcher

[xavier . bury]

Jim

You can always try the updated version i posted last week.

It sure fixed lots of issues i had with the VW in the last rev release.

- columns are corrected (dont need resizing each time you open it)
- globals of type array show up correctly when not debugging.
- other minor improvements

Im still working on the MC version but coming soon (after my new script 
editor... ;)

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=95

cheers
Xavier

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/11/2005 09:53:42:

> Hi, All,
> 
> Hmmm, not sure what to think... it is late and I have cruised through a 
lot
> of programming tasks the last several days, nothing to do with Rev.
> 
> Mac OSX, Tiger 10.4.2, Rev 2.6.1 and suddenly Variable Watcher does not 
show
> values, but just repeats the variable names on the right side (except 
'it' =
> 1)
> 
> Could not find a reference in RevZilla
> Reinstalled Rev from the dmg
> All is well and Variable Watcher is sporting red lettering for the 
variable
> names, whereas before it was all black lettering. (globals are blue when 
not
> debugging)
> 
> Until I can pinpoint something definite, I will let this note suffice in
> case someone else has seen this.
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 
> 
> 
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Stange occurance with Variable Watcher

[Jim Ault]

Hi, All,

Hmmm, not sure what to think... it is late and I have cruised through a lot
of programming tasks the last several days, nothing to do with Rev.

Mac OSX, Tiger 10.4.2, Rev 2.6.1 and suddenly Variable Watcher does not show
values, but just repeats the variable names on the right side (except 'it' =
1)

Could not find a reference in RevZilla
Reinstalled Rev from the dmg
All is well and Variable Watcher is sporting red lettering for the variable
names, whereas before it was all black lettering. (globals are blue when not
debugging)

Until I can pinpoint something definite, I will let this note suffice in
case someone else has seen this.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



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