Re: OT Forums

[Malte Brill]

Hi Alex,

lost a month? 
We had april fools day already. ;-)

All the best,

Malte


Today is March 9th - but I want it to still be a weekend, I don't want
to go back to Thursday :-)


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Re: bugs

[Garrett Hylltun]

David Vaughan wrote:


On 09/04/2006, at 9:26, Garrett Hylltun wrote:


  The intent of the code is far too obvious for you or anyone else 
here to say any different.

Ah, the sweetness of certainty; the certainty of not knowing.


You're just upset because your belief that bug free is impossible was 
shown to be wrong.
Mark did not put that position so far as I recall. Neither did I. You 
may recall I have consistently referred to questions of scale.  Either 
attack the correct person, or stop putting up straw men and go back to 
your contributions to this list.


You are correct.  I went back read the thread again and I do not see 
Mark making any statements to that regard.


I apologize to Mark for my mistake.

-Garrett
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Re: dogma

[sims]

At 4:12 PM -0700 4/8/06, Mark Wieder wrote:

Come the Revolution, all handlers and functions must forthwith be
named "Revolution". All controls must also be named "Revolution" in
order to be recognized by the Revolution language in the Revolution
environment. In addition, all custom properties must from now on be
named "Revolution", i.e.,

set the Revolution of stack Revolution to "Revolution"
send "Revolution" to button "Revolution"
put Revolution("Revolution") into field "Revolution"


Holy cow! The 'abode land security carnivore apparatus' (the name 
that should not

be pronounced, else one might be 'grilled' like Saint Lawrence) is going to
have a field day with this!  ;-)   I suspect we'll be become more suspected!!

ciao,
sims  (low profile)
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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Dan Shafer]

I started calling it "Ringy Dingy Park." That way, whatever telephone/telco
conglomerate owns it, I'm right.

:-)

Dan

On 4/8/06, Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Stephen-
>
> Saturday, April 8, 2006, 5:09:14 PM, you wrote:
>
> > Kinda like I can't say "SBC park". I always call it "PacBell park".
>
> You're in luck. It's "ATT park" or something these days. I still find
> myself calling it Candlestick...
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
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Re: Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[kee nethery]

On Apr 8, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

Kee, assuming I promise not to have our legions of defense attorney  
subpoena you to come to court to testify as an expert witness after  
we have carefully coached you under hot lights without sleep, food  
or water for three days... (smile).


Can you help clarify:

On Apr 08, 2006, at 5:11 PM, kee nethery wrote:

In my humble opinion, the US state department embargo list applies  
to software produced in the USA. If you are in the USA, it makes  
no difference what kind of software you have, you cannot do  
business with anyone in those embargoed countries period end of  
discussion.


What is the definition of "Software" ? is an MS Word letter to your  
mother -- a document  --"software' because it is a binary object  
and not a piece of paper? or is this simply a "file" -- the  
"product" of software, the latter being Microsoft Word.


i.e. where does a binary object in a computer cross the line from  
"file" to "software" if every "file" were bound by such contraints,  
Adobe would have to issue an EULA to be accepted before anyone  
could open even a single PDF!


In our immediate context: Is an executable stack "standalone"  
which, for example, let's you catalog tropical fruit trees and  
their characteristics... is that the "product" of software or just  
a generic file?  or is it software if you created that standalone  
in the US.


There are two types of embargo, commerce and munitions.

It's my understanding that if your software is a weapon (munition)  
you have to prevent "the enemy" from acquiring it. The definition of  
a munition is not as wide as it was years ago. It's my understanding  
that general purpose encryption products are considered munitions  
(PGP has to be as careful as they can in preventing their software  
from going into an embargoed country). It is my understanding from  
the governmental people I talked to years ago that products that use  
encryption for some specific purpose (like encrypting credit card  
data) is not a munition as long as it cannot be repurposed to encrypt  
messages and such.


It's my understanding that a commerce embargo is exactly that, an  
embargo of commerce. Commerce is when you buy or sell (or trade)  
something. So if you buy or sell something with an embargoed country,  
you are violating the law. If you sell your time as a consultant and  
you verbally tell them the baseball scores that anyone can read in  
any newspaper, that is commerce, money changes hands, and it would  
violate the embargo. What you exchange for money is irrelevant. If  
you were to mail a newspaper to them for free, that is not commerce  
and as long as the newspaper is not classified as a munition, no  
violation of the law.


So it does not matter what it is, executable stack, generic file,  
standalone app, if no money changes hands (and you are not doing  
barter which is a form of commerce) then you are not violating the  
embargo. As for your online information, I think that as long as you  
don't sell to people that you can see are in an embargoed country,  
you should be OK. In general, I think if you take credit cards for  
purchases, it is likely that the card of someone in an embargoed  
country could not be used in the US.


Our database shows that for all the embargoed countries;
Iran has 2 banks issuing visa cards.
Iraq has 1 visa issuer.
Zimbabwe has 8 mastercard and 24 visa issuers.
And a quick scan of the millions of transactions in our database  
shows no transactions with any cards from any of those issuers. If a  
holder of one of those cards tried to use it on our store we'd have a  
record of it. So the fact that there are no entries with these cards  
leads me to believe that the cardholders of these cards know that  
they are useless in the US and have never even tried to use them on  
our store. Frankly, I'm surprised there were no attempts.


I'm guessing that if you accept credit cards and you have a US  
merchant account, you are not going to get anyone with an embargoed  
country credit card trying to buy from you.


Of course, as always, I'm no expert. If you really want to get a feel  
for what you should be doing, call the US state department and ask  
them. It's kinda fun running scenarios past them and seeing what they  
say. Back when we were looking into encryption for our old register  
programs, all our encryption questions were referred to "Tony" at a  
specific phone number. He didn't answer the phone, "State Department  
Tony Whatever speaking". All he ever did was answer, "Hello this is  
Tony". Never got his last name and never got the name of the  
organization he worked for. He knew a hella lot about encryption. I  
even kidded him about his anonymous greeting and he just repeated it  
"Yep, I'm Tony, what can I do for you?". I'm guessing he didn't work  
for the state department or commerce. But ... he was very helpful and  
completely understood the nuances of all 

Re: creating my own tools palette

[Xeubie Tsu]

Interesting, thank you. Do you know anything about "Software at the Speed of 
Thought" and could you recommend it for learning transcript? I'm looking for 
a comprehensive source for learning the language at the moment.


Oakes



From: "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],How to use Revolution 


To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: creating my own tools palette
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 17:05:33 -0500

Xeubie Tsu wrote:
Thanks, I'll take your advice and study transcript more deeply. Do you 
think the "Software at the Speed of Thought" book would help in this 
regard?


Also, could you give specifics as to how one creates a palette in rev? Is 
it really like creating any other application?


Pretty much, yes. You create a stack the size you want your palette to be, 
and put buttons on it with icons. Then you script the buttons to do 
whatever tasks you want each one to do. Set the style of the stack to 
"palette", or else when you open it, just use this syntax:


  palette "myStack"

Then the stack opens as a palette and floats on top of any other stacks.

You will have to study a little bit about the "defaultstack" and the 
"topstack" because when a palette button issues commands, usually you want 
the action to happen in a different stack, not in the palette. These 
commands will direct the action to the stack that should receive it.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Media word processor question

[Friedrich F. Grohmann]

I am happy to see Revolution making steady progress, and one sentence 
on the home page in particular did not fail to raise my spirits wildly:


Straight out of the box, Revolution Media provides the features of a 
word processor, a presentation tool, a movie player, a calculator and 
many more standard applications.


Does this mean it is now possible to type Chinese in a field without 
having the application crash with some of the most common characters? 
Is Devanagari no longer garbled?


I would love to introduce my students to Revolution Media, but living 
in Taiwan and working in a field in which Indian scripts are a must I 
cannot do so with a clear conscience as long as the above mentioned 
conditions are not met.


All the best,
Fritz Grohmann


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War huh?

[Robert Sneidar]

I came up with 2 sayings on the subject of war. I think them telling.

1) A friend is someone who has predetermined to be reconciled, even  
if war is declared.
2) An enemy is someone who has predetermined to war against any  
thought or course of action that would lead to reconciliation.


I guess the point is, if reconciliation is possible and intended,  
there can be no war. If no reconciliation is possible or intended,  
there can be no peace. It's a matter of attitude.


 My 2 cents (whoops! Was that said with an American bias?? ;-)

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM


The main reason is that it tends to create symmetrical
relationships and the eventual polarization expressed far too often in
the form of war.

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RE: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Saturday, April 8, 2006, 3:03:13 PM, you wrote:
> 
> >> !!! <-- Exclamation would actually be a pretty cool name 
> if you think
> 
> ...it would probably just remind me of has-been bivalves...

Painful, Mark, that certainly was ;-)

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Sivakatirswami]

There is a standing joke among locals on our island of Kauai, where  
with 2 hurricanes in 20 years, hotels have changed hands and names so  
many times that no one can ever remember what actual location anyone  
is talking about anymore.  Since the hotels are also used as  
"landmarks" we have these crazed conversations that go like this:


#1 It's just past the Aston...

#2 Aston?  I think you mean Kauai Sands, right?

#3 No, they sold Kauai Sands, it's now Kapaa Shores

#4 Oh, I didn't know that...

Everyone breaks out laughing, but still mildly confused -- what place  
were you talking about, really?


Given that this problem already exists where

xTalk = all hotels, hypertalk is a dead hotel, Supertalk is a  
different hyperTalk that is still alive but only lives on the apple  
side of the island, and transcript is an xTalk that is an advancement  
over hypertalk but is not supertalk that lives where all fruits  
grow big blur...


When my support team for the new dedicated server at ServePath asks  
"what's that code you use on your web server?" I'm *already* saying  
to them "oh that's Revolution."


I'm with Lynn this one: we will love coding, henceforth, in  
Revolution, I will know exactly where the hotel is and who owns it  
and I can give directions clearly and everyone I talk to knows  
exactly what I'm talking about:


#!/usr/local/bin/revolution






On Apr 08, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:


The language is now Revolution.


!!! <-- Exclamation would actually be a pretty cool name if you think

about it :-)

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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STOP THE PRESSES!

[Robert Sneidar]

OKAY I JUST GOT IT!

I didn't read far enough into the journal to see that Ruslan has  
answered my question. I need to add the V4REV_Macho in the External  
References of the stack! GOTCHA!


Sorry for all the posts.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

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Re: Valentina

[Robert Sneidar]

Okay I have this in the script of my stack:

on init
  get Valentina_Init( 8 * 1024 * 1024 )
end init

on closeStack
  get valentina_ShutDown
end closeStack

I have a button that has this in it's script:

on mouseUp
  do init
end mouseUp

When I click the button I get a script error! Revolution does NOT  
understand Valentina_Init() EVEN THOUGH the examples stack WORKS! Am  
I an idiot? Have I missed something? I must sound like a pain in the  
arse, but I cannot for the life of me fathom why the example stack  
works and mine does not.


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM


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Re: Linux Engine Licensing - Please Read

[Mark Wieder]

Lynn-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 3:54:53 PM, you wrote:

> Well there's a thought - if musicians wrote code, what would they write in?

Actually, I take offense at the idea that we don't...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: How long does one put up with crashing

[Robert Sneidar]

I would like to weigh in here on the save often issue. I was also  
having crashing and stability problems right out of the gate, but  
saving often has COMPLETELY CURED the problem. There is clearly a  
stability problem in the software, but as long as there is a  
workaround I am content. I just hope the stability issues do not make  
it into the runtime engine.


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

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Re: Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[Sivakatirswami]

Kee, assuming I promise not to have our legions of defense attorney  
subpoena you to come to court to testify as an expert witness after  
we have carefully coached you under hot lights without sleep, food or  
water for three days... (smile).


Can you help clarify:

On Apr 08, 2006, at 5:11 PM, kee nethery wrote:

In my humble opinion, the US state department embargo list applies  
to software produced in the USA. If you are in the USA, it makes no  
difference what kind of software you have, you cannot do business  
with anyone in those embargoed countries period end of discussion.


What is the definition of "Software" ? is an MS Word letter to your  
mother -- a document  --"software' because it is a binary object and  
not a piece of paper? or is this simply a "file" -- the "product" of  
software, the latter being Microsoft Word.


i.e. where does a binary object in a computer cross the line from  
"file" to "software" if every "file" were bound by such contraints,  
Adobe would have to issue an EULA to be accepted before anyone could  
open even a single PDF!


In our immediate context: Is an executable stack "standalone" which,  
for example, let's you catalog tropical fruit trees and their  
characteristics... is that the "product" of software or just a  
generic file?  or is it software if you created that standalone in  
the US.


You could have your software sitting on a server and it might get  
downloaded by someone in one of those countries, and in general,  
unless you are posting generalized encryption software it does not  
matter who downloads it.


So if you offer a standalone executable that children can use to  
color in mice or penguins i.e. something innocuous and free, and but  
your required pre-registration page drop down list of countries  
includes "North Korea" after which they go to a downloads page...   
does this constitute "delivery?"


those of you who did go to out new Digital Edition of Hinduism Today  
will understand where I am coming from... I'm trying to determine if  
we really need that clause in the EULA or not.


The goal: reduce "engineering for police action" to a bare minimum:  
DRM, blacklisting users, country watch lists, blocking pirating of  
your stuff, etc. if you try to factor all this into a web app or some  
digital product it adds a lot overhead that doesn't get you much.  
Time wasted that could be used for actual content production and  
delivery.


Not just for this particular product, but as a general policy for  
future digital offerings, we've got the copy right and DRM thing  
pretty in hand, but I would like to understand this embargo thing  in  
more "minute" detail.


Sivakatirswami








But you cannot sell it to them nor deliver it to them.


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Re: Va;entina

[Robert Sneidar]

Thanks Stephen, this looks promising. I had a quick look at it. I  
will give this a go. My real problem now is that I cannot get the  
Valentina_Init() function to work in my stacks, even though it works  
fin in the example stack provided, and that after copying and pasting  
the function from the example stack. I am corresponding on Ruslan  
about this. It's either something I am doing wrong, or something  
wrong with what I am doing. ;-) Still, someone needs to help poor  
Ruslan out on those manuals! We should all rewrite 5 pages each of  
his manual and submit it to him so he can repost it. :-)


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM


Bob,
Check out Trevor Devore's DB library. "A database abstraction library
written in Transcript:

http://mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/

libDatabase 2.0 - Tested with altSQLite 2 and 3, MySQL, PostGreSQL,
Valentina 1.x local. Prelinary testing done for Valentina 2.x
local/server. Download stack, Getting Started pdf and documentation.
2.0.2.9

It spoke to me well, and enabled me to 'get on with the interface'.
After using it once I donated immediately - but they're free - no
obligation.

Actually the S in SQL stands for 'Structured' not Simple.

sqb




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Re: Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[Richard Gaskin]

Sivakatirswami wrote:
Has anyone studied out carefully the issue of shipping Rev stacks to  
countries on the US state department embargo list?  These being  
currently (found in many typical EULA's)


"Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, military or  
police entities in South Africa, or any other country to which the  
United States has embargoed goods.


I don't know the answer, but it raises two questions:

1. If you don't ship to those countries specifically but post your 
products on your web site, and the feds fund an Internet which makes the 
products available to countries on their prohibited list, do the feds 
arrest themselves?


2. If you hire Halliburton to sell those products to those nations 
through their European subsidiaries in an attempt to conceal sanctions 
violations as they did with Iraq and still do with Iran, do the feds pay 
you a bonus when you overcharge on a no-bid contract?


;)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Proposal for a moratorium

[Thomas McCarthy]

Let's use the rest of this month in a purposeful way. I propose that for the 
next few weeks everyone excercise personal will-power and choose the "delete" 
button rather than the "reply" button to any post they find less than pleasing.

Let's also extend this exercise to our minds by deleting negative thoughts. The 
negative can be very powerful. As Mark Twain said, "Friends come and go, but 
enemies tend to accumulate." The positive is much more subtle and needs freedom 
to flurish. Freedom from abuse, inuendo, attack, suspicion...etc.

So for the next few weeks let's confine our posts to rev and coding. There's 
plenty to talk about here. Lynn's not too subtle hint about things in the works 
has gotten my ears perked.

Transcript is now Revolution? Possibly confusing, no? To my small mind:
Revolution = IDE
Transcript = code

If you need a stronger product-identification, why not "RevScript"?
Cheers,
tm

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Re: Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[kee nethery]

I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on TV and even if I was a lawyer,  
which I am not, I am not hired to be a lawyer for anyone on this  
list. That said ...


In my humble opinion, the US state department embargo list applies to  
software produced in the USA. If you are in the USA, it makes no  
difference what kind of software you have, you cannot do business  
with anyone in those embargoed countries period end of discussion.  
You could have your software sitting on a server and it might get  
downloaded by someone in one of those countries, and in general,  
unless you are posting generalized encryption software it does not  
matter who downloads it. But you cannot sell it to them nor deliver  
it to them.


In you are outside of the USA, the state department embargo rules do  
not apply, RunRev is not a USA country.


In my humble opinion.

Kee Nethery


On Apr 8, 2006, at 6:53 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

Has anyone studied out carefully the issue of shipping Rev stacks  
to countries on the US state department embargo list?  These being  
currently (found in many typical EULA's)


"Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, military or  
police entities in South Africa, or any other country to which the  
United States has embargoed goods.


Would there not be a difference between

1) the Rev IDE which give users tools to build software.
2) a standalone which does not.

in terms of the embargo? Where do we find the precise definition of  
"software" that should not be shipped to these countries?


Could a Standalone be conceived of as a "product" of software, like  
a PDF is a Product of Acrobat, but not Acrobat itself. I mean I  
can't imagine Adobe is breaking laws when some North Korean  
downloads a PDF from the web. Similalry, I'm wondering, if somone  
downloads a standalone application built with Revolution if this is  
a violation of the embargo or not.


Sivakatirswami

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Re: Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[Phil Davis]

Sivakatirswami wrote:

Has anyone studied out carefully the issue of shipping Rev stacks to  
countries on the US state department embargo list?  These being  
currently (found in many typical EULA's)


"Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, military or  
police entities in South Africa, or any other country to which the  
United States has embargoed goods.


Would there not be a difference between

1) the Rev IDE which give users tools to build software.
2) a standalone which does not.

in terms of the embargo? Where do we find the precise definition of  
"software" that should not be shipped to these countries?


Could a Standalone be conceived of as a "product" of software, like a  
PDF is a Product of Acrobat, but not Acrobat itself. I mean I can't  
imagine Adobe is breaking laws when some North Korean downloads a PDF  
from the web. Similalry, I'm wondering, if somone downloads a  
standalone application built with Revolution if this is a violation  
of the embargo or not.


Sivakatirswami


Isn't it possible to use .htaccess files to block certain [ranges of] IP 
addresses from accessing your site? I suppose that's one way to keep 
some of the bad guys from downloading your software - if in fact it's a 
crime to even permit it.


Phil Davis


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Re: Had Revolution for over a year and I still can't run a stack file

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Len,

Sorry to hear you're having problems. I've been running all versions of 
Rev since 1.0 and haven't seen it on XP, though I have no doubt it exists.


Here's a suggestion you might try. It has to do with your video drivers. 
Turns out the Rev engine is very sensitive to outdated drivers.


To check it, do the following:

Right-click on the desktop and choose "Properties"
Go to the Settings Tab and click on the Advanced button there.

Click the Troubleshoot tab.

Slide the Hardware Acceleration slider fully to the left (None).

Click Apply, then OK.

Now launch Rev and see if the cursor problem still exists. If it's 
fixed, then it means you have a conflict with the grapchics drivers. My 
suggestion is to go get the latest version of the drivers. That usually 
fixes things.


Hope this helps.

best,

Chipp


Len Morgan wrote:


Please tell me what I'm doing wrong


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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Chipp Walters]

Hurray! I finally broke into the top ten!!! Champagne anyone?

Though I do have to give credit to Jan Schenkel for slowing down his 
posts, as I'm sure he was the current leader before switching jobs. 
Heck, one year he even won the award for most helpful user on the list 
(bottle of scotch if I'm correct)...Guess that one goes to Richard now.


And certainly Xavier would've given Richard a run for his money if he 
were still posting. That said, I do enjoy Richard's posts quite a bit 
and always look forward to reading them. 'Keep up the good work!'.


- Chipp

Marielle Lange wrote:

Richard Gaskin, Apr  1 16:29:40 2005, wrote:
with so much client work here I'm finding it increasingly  challenging 
to spend time on Rev tools



Maybe you could free up some time by spending less time "correcting"  
any user who makes valid criticisms on the list?


For those interested, here is the list of the 100 most frequent  posters 
on the use-revolution list over the last year (April 05 -  March 06)

(to view with a monospace font or in excel - separated by tabs).

name#posts over a yeargraphical representation (| = 10)
Richard Gaskin  _ 1032
||| 

Xavier Bury _ 1017
||| 
|||
Eric Chatonet   _ 898
 
||
J. Landman Gay  _ 787
 
|||
Mark Wieder _ 783
 
||
Dan Shafer  _ 761
 

Ken Ray _ 744
 ||
Alex Tweedly_ 555

Chipp Walters   _ 536 


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Re: bugs

[Chipp Walters]

Geoff,

I don't think anyone is attacking your programming prowess here. It's 
just that by providing a one line script and calling it a 'program' you 
invite questions.


If it is in a button, and the cursor problem (where it disappears in XP, 
documented recently on this list), how does one 'click' the button w/out 
a cursor? That would be a bug. Course it wouldn't be for me, because 
even though I use XP I've never seen *that* bug (my guess it has to do 
with video drivers?). And it probably wouldn't be for you as certainly 
your code has nothing to do with cursors. But if you had a customer 
complain about it, then you would have to assume they have encountered 
what *they think* is a bug.


IOW, without a spec for the program and the platform and set user 
expectations, it's really hard to define what is a bug. As someone 
mentioned earlier, does Rev's insistence on storing the htmlText of a 
script as a custom prop of it's control, even when there's no script 
constitute a bug? Not an easy question to answer.


Personally, I think your one line script looks bug free to me! I imagine 
after I run the finished program (how much you gonna charge?), I might 
have more to say ;-)


It's all food for thought.

best regards,

Chipp

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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Mark Swindell]

On Apr 8, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:




Kinda like I can't say "SBC park". I always call it "PacBell park".


You're in luck. It's "ATT park" or something these days. I still find
myself calling it Candlestick...



No, Candlestick was re-christened Monster Park a couple of years ago,  
and the 49er's still play there. The Giants play at PacBell, aka SCC,  
aka ATT, aka ETC ETC ETC Park.

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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Mark Wieder]

Lynn-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 3:03:13 PM, you wrote:

>> !!! <-- Exclamation would actually be a pretty cool name if you think

...it would probably just remind me of has-been bivalves...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Mark Wieder]

Stephen-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 5:09:14 PM, you wrote:

> Kinda like I can't say "SBC park". I always call it "PacBell park".

You're in luck. It's "ATT park" or something these days. I still find
myself calling it Candlestick...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Alex Tweedly]

Björnke von Gierke wrote:


You are looking at the index, but i am talking about this page:

http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts

which shows you all the newest posts. In a list. 


So far, that has always said "No topics or posts match your criteria", 
so I haven't yet seen that. Perhaps there just haven't been any posts 
since I registered this evening.


You can see the link to that page if you're logged in, and look near 
the top of the page. There are 3 links there:


View posts since last visit
View your posts
View unanswered posts

actually i have simply bookmarked the first one (which is also the 
link i gave at the top of my message).


PS: actually the links should appear differently, as unread topics 
appear with a red icon next to them even in the index (again, only if 
you're logged in).


Haven't seen that yet - but this could again be because there have been 
no posts since I registered.


I'll try again tomorrow and see if there's anything to see . but 
really I just want the feed into email to work :-)


Thanks for the help !

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Robert Brenstein]

Hi Robert,

 If I am running a process of 100 loops and my bar is 200 pixels, 
then I want to update for each step. However, if my process runs 
1 loops, then updating for each step is pointless since the bar 
will not visibly move and updating every 50-100 steps will do.



Maybe this is just a morning when I can't get it.

But unless your handler is hard-coded to the specific loop or makes 
a runtime decision on whether to update every 50 steps, every 100 
steps, or some number in between, I see no way the position of the 
progress bar can accurately reflect the percentage of task 
completion in all circumstances.


What I posted was generalized logic that calculates the number of 
steps required to move the progress bar one pixel, regardless of the 
width of the bar.  That is the minimum steps required before 
resetting the thumbPosition is visually manifested on the screen. 
Anything more produces "jerkier" movements.



There is nothing wrong with your handler per se. I was trying to make 
a general point and you are picking up on specific examples. Progress 
is always a function of distinct steps in the process vs speed of 
performing those steps vs visible effect of progression of the bar. 
You can use a generic handler if you want to. I prefer to have more 
customized handlers for each situation since I usually know what I 
want to measure as progress. Actually, my database handling tasks 
usually are complex enough that I use two-bar progress, one 
progressing through main tasks and another progressing withing a 
given task since each of those tasks has a different dynamic.


Robert
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Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[Sivakatirswami]

Has anyone studied out carefully the issue of shipping Rev stacks to  
countries on the US state department embargo list?  These being  
currently (found in many typical EULA's)


"Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, military or  
police entities in South Africa, or any other country to which the  
United States has embargoed goods.


Would there not be a difference between

1) the Rev IDE which give users tools to build software.
2) a standalone which does not.

in terms of the embargo? Where do we find the precise definition of  
"software" that should not be shipped to these countries?


Could a Standalone be conceived of as a "product" of software, like a  
PDF is a Product of Acrobat, but not Acrobat itself. I mean I can't  
imagine Adobe is breaking laws when some North Korean downloads a PDF  
from the web. Similalry, I'm wondering, if somone downloads a  
standalone application built with Revolution if this is a violation  
of the embargo or not.


Sivakatirswami

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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Björnke von Gierke]

On Apr 09 2006, at 03:35, Alex Tweedly wrote:


Björnke von Gierke wrote:




...
And, I think the forum doesn't have any way to check for updates 
(new posts) while you are logged in, unless I've just missed it. Is 
there a way to do that ?



just visit the link again, it'll update with each visit with the new 
entries, but the "old" and visited ones still linger there for some 
time...



...

As it happens, I know that I have read all 4 topics and 12 posts in 
"Off-topic" and none of the posts in "User Groups ..." - but there is 
no differentiation between how those appear in the index.


You are looking at the index, but i am talking about this page:

http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts

which shows you all the newest posts. In a list. You can see the link 
to that page if you're logged in, and look near the top of the page. 
There are 3 links there:


View posts since last visit
View your posts
View unanswered posts

actually i have simply bookmarked the first one (which is also the link 
i gave at the top of my message).


PS: actually the links should appear differently, as unread topics 
appear with a red icon next to them even in the index (again, only if 
you're logged in).

--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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[ANN] StackRunner 1.4 Released

[Ken Ray]

Just a note to let you all know that I released a new version of StackRunner
today. Version 1.4 provides support for the new Revolution 2.7 file format
and works on Mac OS X and Windows only (OS 9 and Linux to come when those
engines have been made available.

For more information, visit the StackRunner web page:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm

Enjoy!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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OT Forums

[Alex Tweedly]

In the main index page of the forums, there is a box "Who is online", 
which says


In total there are *2* users online :: 1 Registered, 1 Hidden and 0 
Guests   [ Administrator ]   [ Moderator ]

Most users ever online was *7* on Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:32 am


Today is March 9th - but I want it to still be a weekend, I don't want 
to go back to Thursday :-)


--
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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Alex Tweedly]

Björnke von Gierke wrote:




...
And, I think the forum doesn't have any way to check for updates (new 
posts) while you are logged in, unless I've just missed it. Is there 
a way to do that ?



just visit the link again, it'll update with each visit with the new 
entries, but the "old" and visited ones still linger there for some 
time...



I guess I'm really missing something fundamental.

I'm looking at the main forum index; it tells me (for example) that the 
"Off-Topic" forum has 4 topics and 12 posts and when the last of those 
was, while the "User Groups and Gatherings" has 5 topics and 5 posts and 
when its last post was.


If I click again on the "index" link, it will give me updated numbers - 
but how do I know which have changed since I visited the individual 
forum (or since I read the messages within each forum) ?   (I surely 
don't memorize all 58 numbers and 29 times and mentally check if any 
have changed :-)


As it happens, I know that I have read all 4 topics and 12 posts in 
"Off-topic" and none of the posts in "User Groups ..." - but there is no 
differentiation between how those appear in the index.


--
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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Alex Tweedly]

Rob Cozens wrote:



Hi Robert,

 If I am running a process of 100 loops and my bar is 200 pixels, 
then I want to update for each step. However, if my process runs 
1 loops, then updating for each step is pointless since the bar 
will not visibly move and updating every 50-100 steps will do.



Maybe this is just a morning when I can't get it.

But unless your handler is hard-coded to the specific loop or makes a 
runtime decision on whether to update every 50 steps, every 100 steps, 
or some number in between, I see no way the position of the progress 
bar can accurately reflect the percentage of task completion in all 
circumstances.


What I posted was generalized logic that calculates the number of 
steps required to move the progress bar one pixel, regardless of the 
width of the bar.  That is the minimum steps required before resetting 
the thumbPosition is visually manifested on the screen.  Anything more 
produces "jerkier" movements.


The suggested method sets the scrollbar limits and updates the thumbpos 
just the same as you do. But it determines whether to do the update 
based on time elapsed since last update, rather than on a count of the 
records processed. Because of the way the eye perceives movement and 
change in a visual scene, this is usually, maybe always, adequate to 
avoid *visual* jerkiness, even though it can lead to theoretical jerkiness.


Your code (I had to look back to remind myself - so I've copied it here 
for convenience) was



put 0 into recordsProcessed
put round(recordCount/(the width of scrollBar "Progress 
Scrollbar")) into progressInterval

put max(1,progressInterval) into progressInterval
repeat with x=4 to lastRecord
  ... -- process one record
  add 1 to recordsProcessed
  if (recordsProcessed mod progressInterval)=0 then set the 
thumbPosition of scrollBar "Progress Scrollbar" to recordsProcessed
 




For example, let's say we had a scrollbar of 200 pixels, and 1000 
records to process. The your code will calculate progressInterval to be 
5, and will therefore do 200 updates - very smooth, no jerkiness at all. 
However, if we actually manage to process these things quickly - say in 
2 seconds - then you are doing 100 updates per second.


The other method would replace the last line with something like
if ticks()-lastTicks > 5 then
 set thethumbPosition of scrollBar "Progress Scrollbar" to 
recordsProcessed

 put ticks() into lastTicks
end if

So in the above example, it would do 12 updates per second, and hence 
each update would change the scrollbar position by about 8 pixels. (i.e. 
some abstract jerkiness)


The screen doesn't actually update 100 times per second, and you 
certainly can't see this as any smoother than doing 10 or 20 updates per 
second - so your method is going through the extra CPU cost for no 
*visible* benefit. (Personally, I don't think the cpu cost of this will 
be significant, perhaps not even noticeable. The cost of doing "set 
thumbpos" for *every* record can be significant - but doing it 100 times 
per second is probably not significant - a quick, unscientific benchmark 
suggests less than 5% of the cpu of my moderate speed laptop).


OTOH, if the processing would take a long time - say 200 seconds - then 
the time based method will do additional updates which produce no 
visible change - i.e. wasted CPU usage - but since it is limited to say 
12 times per second, this can be safely assumed to be insignificant 
percentage of the available CPU.


Summary: there isn't that much to choose between them One can waste a 
small percentage of the CPU (but only in relatively short-lived loops) 
while the other can only waste a very small percentage of the CPU (but 
does so mostly in relatively long-lived loops).


Aside - on WinXP, progress bars do no update to a pixel granularity, 
they update in blocks of around 12 pixels, so nothing looks all that 
smooth anyway.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Ken Ray]

On 4/8/06 11:03 AM, "Rob Cozens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Alex & Geoff,
> 
>> You don't need to know how many ticks it takes.
> 
> OK, I'll bite: just how does one set the end value of the scrollBar if
> one does not have an idea of how many loops or how many ticks the
> entire process will take?
> 
> Suppose, for example, one is downloading a file.  Changing the
> thumbPosition every fixed number of ticks means that after x tricks the
> progress bar will have the same setting regardless the file size (eg: a
> 5MB file download will show exactly the same progress as a 10MB
> download or a 100MB download).
> 
> Also, how does one know the progress bar won't get completely to the
> end well before the process is completed?

Because in the case of a file download, you can do things based on the total
size of the file compared to the amount that's already been downloaded. I
generally always set my progress bars to a 1 - 100 range so that I can do:

  trunc(((amount downloaded) / (total amount)) * 100)

and set the thumbposition to that value (which will always be between 1 and
100).

But you're right, Rob... you have to know *something* on which you can hang
your hat... either it's the total number of steps, or the percentage of
downloaded file size over total file size, or the total number of ticks or
milliseconds, etc.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Jim Ault]

On 4/8/06 5:09 PM, "Stephen Barncard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Funny about things like that, though. Think about Dan and other
> writers who have written about the language that are going to have to
> decide to replace all references in works published...
> 
> or steadfastly still use the term "Transcript"? I think, among this
> bunch, this will be the case.
> 
> Kinda like I can't say "SBC park". I always call it "PacBell park".
> Sony Records is still CBS to me.
> 
> hey but I'm not the marketing guy. Good luck with all the products!
> 
>>> Dan Shafer to Lynn Fredricks:  Wow. I was surprised to see your answer
>>>  that the scripting
>>>  language Transcript is being renamed Revolution. How then
>>>  will it be differentiated from the product? Or won't it?
>>>  Intriguing. Not criticizing, just wondering and a bit bewildered.

 And then think about programming in FoxPro, FileMaker, Flash
(brand names identified with the programming language)
as opposed to flavors of C, Pascal, (Borland, etc)
Environs like Dreamweaver, GoLive...

Meander thru the book store, look at the shelves and see the impact those
names have... a variety of reactions, I would imagine.  The C++ primer as
thick as your arm.

Now imagine Revolution snuggled between them in alphabetical order...
Revolution in 21 Days
Revolution Bible
Revolution Cross-Platform Made-Easy
Rev Desktop Reference
Revolution for Network Administrators
Revolution Externals Handbook
Revolution-ize Your Office
Eye-popping Rev Interfaces

Revolution for Dummies (which is when you know you have finally arrived)

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Björnke von Gierke]

On Apr 09 2006, at 02:08, Alex Tweedly wrote:


Björnke von Gierke wrote:


Also note this link:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts

...

...
And, I think the forum doesn't have any way to check for updates (new 
posts) while you are logged in, unless I've just missed it. Is there a 
way to do that ?


just visit the link again, it'll update with each visit with the new 
entries, but the "old" and visited ones still linger there for some 
time...


--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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RE: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Stephen Barncard]

Funny about things like that, though. Think about Dan and other 
writers who have written about the language that are going to have to 
decide to replace all references in works published...


or steadfastly still use the term "Transcript"? I think, among this 
bunch, this will be the case.


Kinda like I can't say "SBC park". I always call it "PacBell park".
Sony Records is still CBS to me.

hey but I'm not the marketing guy. Good luck with all the products!



 > Wow. I was surprised to see your answer that the scripting

 language Transcript is being renamed Revolution. How then
 will it be differentiated from the product? Or won't it?
 Intriguing. Not criticizing, just wondering and a bit bewildered.


This is one of those situations where the lack of differentiation will
reinforce the brand. Most new customers wont have any preconceptions based
on the language "Transcript", but they would if we decided to change the
name a year from now. Name changes can be rough, but, almost anyone who
would recognize "transcript" is engaged enough in the community not to be
completely confused by this name change.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd



--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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Re: Had Revolution for over a year and I still can't run a stack file

[Alex Tweedly]

J. Landman Gay wrote:



This is different from the disappearing Windows cursor, which I 
thought got fixed before the last release. Does it still happen in 2.7?


Haven't yet upgraded to 2.7 (and probably won't until 2.7.1), so I can't 
answer that directly.


But I would have to guess not, since the BZ entry for it hasn't been 
updated.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Alex Tweedly]

Björnke von Gierke wrote:


Also note this link:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts

And this one:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=unanswered

It's really not necessary to browse trough the whole forum, just to 
see the newest posts.

(These links are almost at the top of the forum index page, to the right)
Of course they only work if you sign in...

But I never want to see "the newest posts". What I *want* is a link that 
shows me the posts (or at least the forums, and as I enter each 
individual forum shows me the posts within it) which I haven't read 
yet.. The link shows "posts since last visit" - so if I enter the 
forums, get interrupted by some external event and log out again 
immediately, then I no longer have any idea which forums/posts I need to 
go back to. 

These forum thingies will never take the place of an email list, which 
provides exactly that functionality so unobtrusively it's easy to forget 
just how important it is.


And, I think the forum doesn't have any way to check for updates (new 
posts) while you are logged in, unless I've just missed it. Is there a 
way to do that ?


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
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Frequent posters

[Stephen Barncard]

Wow! I'm number 18 on the list. I'd better get a life.
Stephen Barncard_   351 |||
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stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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OT Comes the Revolution

[Kurt Kaufman]

Comes the revolution!
Everything is jake!
Comes the revolution-
We'll be eating cake!
When the streets and rivers run with red,
I'll be underneath the bed.
And after all their capers
Put the foe to rout,
I will buy the papers
To see how we came out.
Comes the revolution- all is jake-
And soon we'll be eating cake!

-Alexander Throttlebottom,  U.S. VP
from "Let 'Em Eat Cake" (1933), by
G.S. Kaufman, M. Ryskind and I. Gershwin
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Re: bugs

[David Vaughan]

On 09/04/2006, at 9:26, Garrett Hylltun wrote:


  The intent of the code is far too obvious for you or anyone else  
here to say any different.

Ah, the sweetness of certainty; the certainty of not knowing.


You're just upset because your belief that bug free is impossible  
was shown to be wrong.
Mark did not put that position so far as I recall. Neither did I. You  
may recall I have consistently referred to questions of scale.   
Either attack the correct person, or stop putting up straw men and go  
back to your contributions to this list.


David


-Garrett


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Re: bugs

[David Vaughan]

On 09/04/2006, at 6:23, Garrett Hylltun wrote:


The thing is, that is not a bug.  The programmer did not make any  
error in his code at all.  The code works as it was intended.


You could also claim that if a user in Japan downloaded the program  
and could not read it because it was in English and not Japanese,  
that he could say that the program has a bug.


Or a Linux user downloaded the Windows version, it would not run,  
so it must be a bug.


Your scenario is lacking completely, and rather a petty attempt to  
push your belief.


Garrett

Thank you for the ad hominem attack in your last line. Mark has  
already disposed of your prior argument that there is no bug  
("programmer's intention") so I will not elaborate on his concise  
statement. For your further enlightenment here is a set categories of  
bugs:

- Requirements defects
- Design defects
- Source code defects
- User documentation defects
- "Bad fixes", or secondary defects found in repairs to prior defects
[source: Capers-Jones, "Applied Software Measurement"]

Your attempt to dismiss the basis of the single coding example I used  
seems rather an attempt to avoid the three conclusions I drew.
- bugs happen, even when they are sincerely believed not to exist  
and with the best will in the world, and testing which seemed  
comprehensive at the time;
- money matters in commercial decisions without greed per se being  
a factor;
- the morality of the developer is not questioned by the discovered  
bug.


I will not discuss these further here with you because I see no point  
to it. I expect that great majority of developers would take these  
points as self-evident. If you wish to evangelise your position of  
bug-free heaven where commerce does not exist, write to me privately.  
Better still, write to someone else.


Where you have an actual bug of any category, post it to support or  
with Revzilla


David


-Garrett

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Re: bugs

[Garrett Hylltun]

Mark Wieder wrote:

Garrett-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 1:23:55 PM, you wrote:


The thing is, that is not a bug.  The programmer did not make any error
in his code at all.  The code works as it was intended.


That's just silly. How do *you* know what was intended? The entire
requirements for this app seem to be defined in a three word comment

[snip]

And how do you know?  You make assumptions and then layout a plot that 
in itself is not even related to the code before you, making it more 
complicated than what it really is, just so you can find a way to back 
up your stance.  But the fact is, there was nothing there to back up 
your stance.  The intent of the code is far too obvious for you or 
anyone else here to say any different.  You can try to deter the 
attention to the obvious, but that's just not going to cut it.


The point was that the program is bug free.  And it is.  I can 
understand though that this does not really represent a real world 
application where there is far more code and more chances of bug getting 
into the scheme of things, but the fact still remains, the code that was 
provided is bug free, no if, and, or but about it.


You're just upset because your belief that bug free is impossible was 
shown to be wrong.


-Garrett
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dogma

[Mark Wieder]

Dan-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 11:10:30 AM, you wrote:

> Wow. I was surprised to see your answer that the scripting language
> Transcript is being renamed Revolution. How then will it be differentiated
> from the product? Or won't it? Intriguing. Not criticizing, just wondering
> and a bit bewildered.

Come the Revolution, all handlers and functions must forthwith be
named "Revolution". All controls must also be named "Revolution" in
order to be recognized by the Revolution language in the Revolution
environment. In addition, all custom properties must from now on be
named "Revolution", i.e.,

set the Revolution of stack Revolution to "Revolution"
send "Revolution" to button "Revolution"
put Revolution("Revolution") into field "Revolution"

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Garrett Hylltun]

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

Marielle,

My name is on that list. Please do not include my comments or name in 
any of your emails. I know you don't mean anything derogatory by 
including my name but I still would prefer if you didn't.


I know I'm about to probably stir up some real trouble now, but I have 
to say something to this.


Tom, you're saying she can't compliment you?  Ask you any questions? 
Reference anything that you've done that might help another user on the 
list?  Recommend you to someone else on this list as being someone who 
can help that person?  You get my point?


Basically, what you said sounds so ignorant that I can't believe you 
said it.  It seems so childish.


The thing is that anything and everything you put into a public forum 
like this no longer is yours to control.  You can't ask or tell anyone 
not to quote you from a public forum , not to mention your name or 
anything.  It's public.  Well, you can ask and demand, but nobody has to 
 comply.  If you don't want people to even mention you, then remove 
yourself from the list, turn off your computer, lock your doors, and do 
not ever communicate with the world again.


I'm sure you're right though, I'm sure were not being singled out for 
something derogatory.  It's obvious the intent, which had nothing to do 
with you.  Which adds to your puzzling reply on this.


Almost all those names that were listed are the people who are most 
helpful.  Granted, some of them participate in what I call 
"ego-chatter", but even with that, that list represents a lot of good 
people and I would have assumed that anyone listed would have actually 
felt complimented by that.


-Garrett
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Re: bugs

[Mark Wieder]

Garrett-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 1:23:55 PM, you wrote:

> The thing is, that is not a bug.  The programmer did not make any error
> in his code at all.  The code works as it was intended.

That's just silly. How do *you* know what was intended? The entire
requirements for this app seem to be defined in a three word comment
placed in the script. What code would you write given the following
requirement?

-- display the text

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Linux Engine Licensing - Please Read

[Lynn Fredricks]

> My end of the conversation dealt with that's already here:  
> Andre and others have server frameworks that run on a license 
> that's free.  I mentioned repeatedly to you that the license 
> for faceless use had historically always been free, for more 
> than a decade before RunRev acquired the engine.
>
> At that time you didn't ask me for the location of that 
> document, and didn't even cast any doubts about how I 
> described that license, as you did here yesterday.  But if 
> you need it now at least you have it.

I always assume you are telling me the truth Richard :-)

> My only question for you was whether RunRev would continue 
> this tradition. I feel it would be as good an idea today as 
> it was when Dr. 
> Raney first came up with it as a way of introducing the 
> language in an interesting space that doesn't impair sales of 
> the GUI product.
> 
> I still don't have the answer to that question; it's not 
> addressed in the v2.7 license, so for the moment anyone 
> wishing to evangelize Transcript use for servers has to 
> recommend the older engine.

The 2.7.x license doesn't reiterate the right to freely use the engine for
that purpose, right.

I don't want to get into a debate on this, but I want to set expectations
that server-side scripting is something that's getting taken very seriously
and being planned very carefully when it comes to licensing. A yes or no
answer spells out a strategy that Runtime isnt prepared yet to articulate
right now.


> I don't understand:  I don't see a BSD or Solaris forum 
> there, and I couldn't find either build in the pub/engines/ 
> folder at ftp.runrev.com.

Solaris got tossed in with the other 'nixs on the forum.

> I use a host that maintains a server farm preconfigured for 
> using the engine (TierraNet.com), but they use BSD so until I 
> get a new build I have to use the old one.
> 
> Fortunately the old engine handles the basics well for server 
> use so it's not that critical.

Okay, that's good.

> >> I've been using Transcript as my language-of-choice on my servers 
> >> since before RunRev Ltd. was born.  It's nice that the world is 
> >> finally changing so I no longer feel the need to apologize 
> for that 
> >> choice (remember the '90s when people wrote web apps in C? E).
> > 
> > Now Rich, you arent the sort who gets enraged when he sees Grateful 
> > Dead stickers on SUVs, right?:-)
> 
> That one's lost on me.  Writing web apps in C is pretty 
> craptastic given
>   its productivity relative to higher-level languages; note 
> that the current buzz is about "Ruby on Rails", not "C on Rails". ;)

I wouldn't want to do it.

> While many of my friends love the Dead I don't have any of 
> their albums, and none of their music was written in a 
> strongly-typed compiled language.

Well there's a thought - if musicians wrote code, what would they write in?

> I own an SUV but mostly for camping; I drive only about once 
> a week or less, and between the metro train and compact 
> fluorescents and other conservation actions I take my 
> personal BTU consumption is far below that of most sedan 
> owners.  And neither SUVs nor sedans can be easily configured 
> for CGI use.
> 
> :\

But this has set you thinking, hasn't it? :-)

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: bugs

[Mark Wieder]

Geoff-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 12:24:12 PM, you wrote:

> 1. The requirements simply say to display the date -- the date is  
> displayed. If non-modality is needed, that should be in the  
> requirements.

...and conversely if a modal display is desired then that should be
spelled out...

> First you need a clear and complete set of requirements. Note that
> there is no equivocation there. The requirements must be totally  
> clear, and absolutely complete. The requirements must be such that  
> any reasonably intelligent person can sit down, read them, and then
> answer _any_ question about what the software is to do. Furthermore,

...

> I have never seen such requirements, nor really anything close to it,
> and that's okay. Requirements like that would be exceptionally hard
> to write, and most people are willing to deal with the issues that  
> come with easier-to-write vague specifications.

I have. I had the pleasure of working for a year and a half on a
project that spent the first 60% of the sdlc hammering out a
requirements document. This was the contract between development and
QA - they could each build from the same document and refer to it when
conflicts came up. We delivered the product more or less on time, more
or less bug-free (nothing major, nothing that you didn't have to go
way out of your way to find), and received awards for the finished
product. And this was a three-tiered java app with a mainframe backend
encrypting financial data across the internet. It *can* be done. And
done well.

> Quoting: "Consider these stats : the last three versions of the
> program -- each 420,000 lines long-had just one error each. The last
> 11 versions of this software had a total of 17 errors."

> The part I don't get is: if you have it down to just one bug, how  
> hard is it to find and fix that one bug?

ROTFL.

The article makes a point of pointing out a certain uniqueness:
"What makes it remarkable is how well the software works. This
software never crashes. It never needs to be re-booted. This software
is bug-free."

I notice, however, that even with "one error" in the last version of
the software "Four identical machines, running identical software,
pull information from thousands of sensors, make hundreds of
milli-second decisions, vote on every decision, check with each other
250 times a second. A fifth computer, with different software, stands
by to take control should the other four malfunction."

...and I love the tagline:
"The sooner you fall behind, the more time you will have to catch up."

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Sean Shao]

As far as I can tell, Rev can't communicate directly with the hard disk 
without some form of external written to do so.


On a slightly related note, I created a library that will create dynamically 
sized disk images that was to be used with Mark Schonewille's "Buttefly" 
project but a known bug in the DOS emulator would corrupt the disk image.


- the ghost of sean

_
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Thomas McGrath III]

Marielle,

My name is on that list. Please do not include my comments or name in  
any of your emails. I know you don't mean anything derogatory by  
including my name but I still would prefer if you didn't.


Thank you,

Tom

On Apr 8, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marielle Lange wrote:


Richard Gaskin, Apr  1 16:29:40 2005, wrote:
with so much client work here I'm finding it increasingly  
challenging to spend time on Rev tools


Maybe you could free up some time by spending less time  
"correcting" any user who makes valid criticisms on the list?


For those interested, here is the list of the 100 most frequent  
posters on the use-revolution list over the last year (April 05 -  
March 06)

(to view with a monospace font or in excel - separated by tabs).

name#posts over a year  graphical representation (| = 10)
Richard Gaskin  _	 
1032	| 
||
Xavier Bury _	 
1017	| 
|
Eric Chatonet   _	 
898	|| 

J. Landman Gay  _	 
787	|| 
|
Mark Wieder _	 
783	|| 

Dan Shafer  _	 
761	|| 
||
Ken Ray _	 
744	|| 

Alex Tweedly_	 
555	
Chipp Walters   _	 
536	||
Klaus Major _	 
527	|
Thomas McGrath III  _	 
526	|
Sarah Reichelt  _	 
516	

David Burgun_   432 |||
Judy Perry  _   395 
Lynch, Jonathan _   390 |||
Jim Ault_   370 |
Dennis Brown_   357 
Stephen Barncard_   351 |||
Scott Rossi _   348 |||
Andre Garzia_   343 ||
Jon _   321 
Mark Smith  _   316 
Charles Hartman _   309 |||
Scott Kane  _   272 |||
Sivakatirswami  _   255 ||
Trevor DeVore   _   249 |
David Bovill_   243 
Rob Cozens  _   240 
Dar Scott   _   226 |||
Marielle Lange  _   219 ||
Jim Hurley  _   212 |
Dave Cragg  _   189 |||
Peter T. Evensen_   188 |||
[EMAIL PROTECTED]_  176 ||
Bob Hartley _   173 |
Timothy Miller  _   150 |||
Mathewson   _   149 |||
Malte Brill _   146 |||
Geoff Canyon_   144 ||
Mark Talluto_   144 ||
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto _   143 ||
jbv _   140 ||
Frank D. Engel, Jr. _   134 |
Pierre Sahores  _   134 |
Garrett Hylltun _   133 |
Devin Asay  _   131 |
sims_   131 |
Phil Davis  _   128 |
Alejandro Tejada_   125 |
Bill Humphrey   _   119 
Robert Brenstein_   117 
Brian Yennie_   117 
Bob Warren  _   112 |||
Mark Swindell   _   100 ||
Jan Schenkel_   99  ||
graham samuel   _   99  ||
Dom _   98  ||
Derek Bump  _   97  ||
FlexibleLearning_   97  ||
Thomas McCarthy _   93  |
Erik Hansen _   93  |
Chris Sheffield _   93  |
Wouter  _   93  |
Mark Schonewille_   92  |
Bjönke_von_Gierke   _   92  |
Troy Rollins_   91  |
Marty Knapp _   90  |
Ban Nguyen  _   89  |
Bill Marriott   _   84  
Lynn Fr

Re: creating my own tools palette

[J. Landman Gay]

Xeubie Tsu wrote:
Thanks, I'll take your advice and study transcript more deeply. Do you 
think the "Software at the Speed of Thought" book would help in this 
regard?


Also, could you give specifics as to how one creates a palette in rev? 
Is it really like creating any other application?


Pretty much, yes. You create a stack the size you want your palette to 
be, and put buttons on it with icons. Then you script the buttons to do 
whatever tasks you want each one to do. Set the style of the stack to 
"palette", or else when you open it, just use this syntax:


  palette "myStack"

Then the stack opens as a palette and floats on top of any other stacks.

You will have to study a little bit about the "defaultstack" and the 
"topstack" because when a palette button issues commands, usually you 
want the action to happen in a different stack, not in the palette. 
These commands will direct the action to the stack that should receive it.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > The language is now Revolution.
> 
> !!! <-- Exclamation would actually be a pretty cool name if you think
about it :-)

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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RE: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Wow. I was surprised to see your answer that the scripting 
> language Transcript is being renamed Revolution. How then 
> will it be differentiated from the product? Or won't it? 
> Intriguing. Not criticizing, just wondering and a bit bewildered.

This is one of those situations where the lack of differentiation will
reinforce the brand. Most new customers wont have any preconceptions based
on the language "Transcript", but they would if we decided to change the
name a year from now. Name changes can be rough, but, almost anyone who
would recognize "transcript" is engaged enough in the community not to be
completely confused by this name change.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: Linux Engine Licensing - Please Read

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On Sat Apr 8, 2006, Richard Gaskin ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:


Mark Schonewille wrote:
>
> Not so long ago, I experimented with running my stacks as little
> client apps with the engine in the bin folder of Mac OS X. This
> allows me to run a stack like an application, without building a
> standalone. Very much like running a Python applet. Have you
> noticed that this is no longer possible in Rev 2.7? Do you now a
> workaround?
In the olden days (MetaCard and the first few versions of Rev) you could
double-click a file and it would run the engine without the IDE,
allowing you to "preview" it similar to how it would be in a standalone.

In v2.7 the dev and runtime engines are separate, and I can't get the
dev engine to run without an IDE and I can't get the runtime engine to
run at all without being bound to an app.

I solved this for myself by building a simple stub app instead.  Now I
can just drop my files onto that and it works a treat. (snip).

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal




Richard,

with 2.7 I use the "standalone" file to open stacks without the IDE.
A couple of weeks ago -when we were discussing "player" issues on the 
Metacard list some weeks ago, I had mentioned that it is possible to 
rename file "standalone", i.e adding an ".exe" extension and even 
choosing an arbitrary name for the file. Dropping stacks on that "player 
stub" starts them without opening the IDE. Works for Revolution and 
Metacard stacks.


What is your solution like? Something similar or diffferent?

Regards,
--
Wilhelm Sanke


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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Thomas McGrath III]

Lynn

What is the thinking behind this? I am a little put off by the  
change. Hypercard had hypertalk, supercard had supertalk, director  
had lingo and Revolution had Transcript. I love the name transcript.


Thank you,

P.S. Congratulations on the Rev Media release.


Way to go.

Tom


On Apr 8, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:


The language is now Revolution.


Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd



Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Lazy River Software™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com

Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html

Meeting Wear™ - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear

Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com

SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html







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Re: creating my own tools palette

[Xeubie Tsu]

Thanks, I'll take your advice and study transcript more deeply. Do you think 
the "Software at the Speed of Thought" book would help in this regard?


Also, could you give specifics as to how one creates a palette in rev? Is it 
really like creating any other application?


Thanks,
Oakes



From: Mark Schonewille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: How to use Revolution 
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: creating my own tools palette
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 13:28:20 +0200

Hello Oakes,

I made my own tools palette for in the Rev IDE. It contains many small 
script that I use every day. Since it is for my own use, I didn't add any 
fancy graphics. Just a few buttons with cryptic names.


If you are a true newbie, I'd just start learning the scripting language 
before trying to make a tools palette. It is nice if you can build an 
interface with buttons and graphics, but it is useless if you haven't 
learnt how to bring it alive, yet.


Now, if I haven't convinced you yet... Sure, you can use any graphics 
programme to create icons for your tools palette. Anything from ColorIt! to 
PhotoShop will do.


First set up your tools palette with the buttons and scripts you need. Then 
design at least two icons for each tool. Save the icons and import them all 
into the mainstack of your project. Now you can set the icon of each 
button. Set the hiliteIcon of each button to a slightly darker version of 
the icon.


If you want you can also set the style of a tool to checkbox and use a 
different icon for the armed state (set the showName to false). That gives 
a useful effect.


That's it.

Mark


Xeubie Tsu wrote:
Hello, I'm new to rev. Could someone let me know how to create my own 
tools palette with my own custom tools? I imagine I'd need some graphics 
program to draw the objects and such.


Thanks,
Oakes



--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet users every 
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_
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


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Re: Linux Engine Licensing - Please Read

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Schonewille wrote:

Richard,

Not so long ago, I experimented with running my stacks as little 
client apps with the engine in the bin folder of Mac OS X. This 
allows me to run a stack like an application, without building a 
standalone. Very much like running a Python applet. Have you 
noticed that this is no longer possible in Rev 2.7? Do you now a 
workaround?


In the olden days (MetaCard and the first few versions of Rev) you could 
double-click a file and it would run the engine without the IDE, 
allowing you to "preview" it similar to how it would be in a standalone.


In v2.7 the dev and runtime engines are separate, and I can't get the 
dev engine to run without an IDE and I can't get the runtime engine to 
run at all without being bound to an app.


I solved this for myself by building a simple stub app instead.  Now I 
can just drop my files onto that and it works a treat.  I even added a 
file association for a unique file type so I can have some stacks that 
only open in this stub app when double-clicked, so I can run things like 
my billing timer separate from the IDE I'm likely to restart often while 
I'm working.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Ken Ray]

On 4/8/06 3:15 PM, "Marielle Lange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maybe you could free up some time by spending less time "correcting"
> any user who makes valid criticisms on the list?

???
 
> For those interested, here is the list of the 100 most frequent
> posters on the use-revolution list over the last year (April 05 -
> March 06)
> (to view with a monospace font or in excel - separated by tabs).

All I can say, Marielle, is you have *WAY* too much time on your hands...

;-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Linux Engine Licensing - Please Read

[Richard Gaskin]

Lynn Fredricks wrote:

 > A lot of us MC users did.  I had occasion to mention this 
very specifically to Lynn recently, more than once.  Not sure 
why he said he wasn't familiar with it; maybe he just suffers 
from what Dan and I can call Rev List Subscriber Memory Disorder. ;)


The substance of our discussion had to do with what's coming, not the
location of a document.


My end of the conversation dealt with that's already here:  Andre and 
others have server frameworks that run on a license that's free.  I 
mentioned repeatedly to you that the license for faceless use had 
historically always been free, for more than a decade before RunRev 
acquired the engine.


At that time you didn't ask me for the location of that document, and 
didn't even cast any doubts about how I described that license, as you 
did here yesterday.  But if you need it now at least you have it.


My only question for you was whether RunRev would continue this 
tradition. I feel it would be as good an idea today as it was when Dr. 
Raney first came up with it as a way of introducing the language in an 
interesting space that doesn't impair sales of the GUI product.


I still don't have the answer to that question; it's not addressed in 
the v2.7 license, so for the moment anyone wishing to evangelize 
Transcript use for servers has to recommend the older engine.



Most of the engine changes since the older version at 
 have been for native appearances and other 
goodies that have no effect when running in faceless mode.  
Also, MetaCard Corp. supported far more platforms than 
RunRev, so if your server runs Solaris, BSD, or one of the 
other flavors Rev is no longer compiled for you can still 
enjoy Transcript on your server with the old tried-and-true engine.


Not completely forgotten - they have a sub-forum:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=21


I don't understand:  I don't see a BSD or Solaris forum there, and I 
couldn't find either build in the pub/engines/ folder at ftp.runrev.com.


I use a host that maintains a server farm preconfigured for using the 
engine (TierraNet.com), but they use BSD so until I get a new build I 
have to use the old one.


Fortunately the old engine handles the basics well for server use so 
it's not that critical.


I've been using Transcript as my language-of-choice on my 
servers since before RunRev Ltd. was born.  It's nice that 
the world is finally changing so I no longer feel the need to 
apologize for that choice (remember the '90s when people 
wrote web apps in C? E).


Now Rich, you arent the sort who gets enraged when he sees Grateful Dead
stickers on SUVs, right?:-)


That one's lost on me.  Writing web apps in C is pretty craptastic given 
 its productivity relative to higher-level languages; note that the 
current buzz is about "Ruby on Rails", not "C on Rails". ;)


While many of my friends love the Dead I don't have any of their albums, 
and none of their music was written in a strongly-typed compiled language.


I own an SUV but mostly for camping; I drive only about once a week or 
less, and between the metro train and compact fluorescents and other 
conservation actions I take my personal BTU consumption is far below 
that of most sedan owners.  And neither SUVs nor sedans can be easily 
configured for CGI use.


:\

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Garrett Hylltun]

Marielle Lange wrote:

Richard Gaskin, Apr  1 16:29:40 2005, wrote:
with so much client work here I'm finding it increasingly challenging 
to spend time on Rev tools


Maybe you could free up some time by spending less time "correcting" any 
user who makes valid criticisms on the list?


For those interested, here is the list of the 100 most frequent posters 
on the use-revolution list over the last year (April 05 - March 06)

(to view with a monospace font or in excel - separated by tabs).

name#posts over a yeargraphical representation (| = 10)


I have to say though, that those you listed have been of great help to 
not only myself, but many many others.  And for that I thank them all.


-Garrett
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Re: bugs

[Garrett Hylltun]

Rob Cozens wrote:
[snip]

Must have been a spokesman for the building trades industry.:{`)

There is no house of any size or complexity that is "bug" free.

After first visiting my parents' new $80K home--which in the 1970s was a 
lot of $--my wife and I remarked to each other how shoddy the 
workmanship was.  Some plumbing fixtures were plumbed hot water to cold 
faucet, ill-fitting cabinetry, sloppy painting, etc.


So tell us, did your parents just take up the hind end and accept it as 
normal performance?  Or did they go after the builder?  Take them to 
court?  Did they win in court?  Was the builder held responsible?  Did 
your parents have to pay to fix the errors?


-Garrett
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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Björnke von Gierke]

Also note this link:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts

And this one:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=unanswered

It's really not necessary to browse trough the whole forum, just to see 
the newest posts.
(These links are almost at the top of the forum index page, to the 
right)

Of course they only work if you sign in...

--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Kurt Kaufman]

I want to access it in Revolution instead of using somebody
else's hex editor software


If  a Hex editor can "see" it, then Revolution can as well.  But if  
the data stored on the card is not entirely printable text you need  
to specify that the data is binary.


(Forgive me if you know all this already)

Kurt
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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Garrett Hylltun]

David Burgun wrote:


On 8 Apr 2006, at 02:06, Bob Warren wrote:


Garrett Hylltun wrote:

>Have you ever dropped a stack of a thousand or so punch cards!?  That
was the last time I ever dropped a stack.  Took me weeks to put the
stack back in order before I could run it through the reader.

Yes, and worse. On one occasion I was feeding in trays and trays of 
cards that represented free gifts to the clients. Although I was 
always very methodical and careful when doing this, somehow, I don't 
know how, I fed in a tray (or more?) of cards twice. As a result, 
about 10,000 customers got their rather expensive gifts in duplicate! 
Needless to say, proper statistical controls were implemented by my 
department afterwards. It turned out to be quite didactic.


Bob


That's what the sequencing field was for! If you used it, you could run 
it thru the sorted and it would put them all back in order!


Unfortunately we did not have one.  Just a puncher and a reader.  :-(

-Garrett
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Re: bugs

[Garrett Hylltun]

David Vaughan wrote:

So tell me what could go wrong? ;-)


I realised while cooking the salmon this evening (crocodile being off 
the menu) that Geoff had inadvertently provided a wonderful case study 
on bugs. Any link to Geoff in the following is purely coincidental and 
nothing to do with him at all :-)


Once upon a time, an aspiring programmer wrote:

on mouseUp -- display the date
  answer the date with "OK"
end mouseUp

and released it as shareware.


The thing is, that is not a bug.  The programmer did not make any error 
in his code at all.  The code works as it was intended.


You could also claim that if a user in Japan downloaded the program and 
could not read it because it was in English and not Japanese, that he 
could say that the program has a bug.


Or a Linux user downloaded the Windows version, it would not run, so it 
must be a bug.


Your scenario is lacking completely, and rather a petty attempt to push 
your belief.


-Garrett
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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 31, Issue 20

[Dan Shafer]

Bryan

I appreciate your attempt to mend the fence here. But I am absolutely
bewildered by your statement that I threatened to sic forum police on
someone. First, I don't think there *are* any forum police! Second, I can't
honestly remember threatening to *do* anything to *anyone*. Perhaps I did
and have forgotten it and if I did, then I truly apologize. That is, as you
say, just not who I am.

On 4/8/06, bryan mccormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dan, Marielle
>
> I saw you threaten to
> (or so it seemed, perception in email/list form is a very delicate and
> tricky thing) apparently sic the forum police on some fellow who
> appeared to simply be complaining.
>

--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Marielle Lange]

Richard Gaskin, Apr  1 16:29:40 2005, wrote:
with so much client work here I'm finding it increasingly  
challenging to spend time on Rev tools


Maybe you could free up some time by spending less time "correcting"  
any user who makes valid criticisms on the list?


For those interested, here is the list of the 100 most frequent  
posters on the use-revolution list over the last year (April 05 -  
March 06)

(to view with a monospace font or in excel - separated by tabs).

name#posts over a year  graphical representation (| = 10)
Richard Gaskin  _	 
1032	||| 

Xavier Bury _	 
1017	||| 
|||
Eric Chatonet   _	 
898	 
||
J. Landman Gay  _	 
787	 
|||
Mark Wieder _	 
783	 
||
Dan Shafer  _	 
761	 

Ken Ray _	 
744	 
||
Alex Tweedly_	 
555	
Chipp Walters   _	 
536	||
Klaus Major _	 
527	|
Thomas McGrath III  _	 
526	|
Sarah Reichelt  _	 
516	

David Burgun_   432 |||
Judy Perry  _   395 
Lynch, Jonathan _   390 |||
Jim Ault_   370 |
Dennis Brown_   357 
Stephen Barncard_   351 |||
Scott Rossi _   348 |||
Andre Garzia_   343 ||
Jon _   321 
Mark Smith  _   316 
Charles Hartman _   309 |||
Scott Kane  _   272 |||
Sivakatirswami  _   255 ||
Trevor DeVore   _   249 |
David Bovill_   243 
Rob Cozens  _   240 
Dar Scott   _   226 |||
Marielle Lange  _   219 ||
Jim Hurley  _   212 |
Dave Cragg  _   189 |||
Peter T. Evensen_   188 |||
[EMAIL PROTECTED]_  176 ||
Bob Hartley _   173 |
Timothy Miller  _   150 |||
Mathewson   _   149 |||
Malte Brill _   146 |||
Geoff Canyon_   144 ||
Mark Talluto_   144 ||
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto _   143 ||
jbv _   140 ||
Frank D. Engel, Jr. _   134 |
Pierre Sahores  _   134 |
Garrett Hylltun _   133 |
Devin Asay  _   131 |
sims_   131 |
Phil Davis  _   128 |
Alejandro Tejada_   125 |
Bill Humphrey   _   119 
Robert Brenstein_   117 
Brian Yennie_   117 
Bob Warren  _   112 |||
Mark Swindell   _   100 ||
Jan Schenkel_   99  ||
graham samuel   _   99  ||
Dom _   98  ||
Derek Bump  _   97  ||
FlexibleLearning_   97  ||
Thomas McCarthy _   93  |
Erik Hansen _   93  |
Chris Sheffield _   93  |
Wouter  _   93  |
Mark Schonewille_   92  |
Bjönke_von_Gierke   _   92  |
Troy Rollins_   91  |
Marty Knapp _   90  |
Ban Nguyen  _   89  |
Bill Marriott   _   84  
Lynn Fredricks  _   83  
Todd Geist  _   83  
Ruslan Zasukhin _   83  
Jerry Daniels   _   81  
Howard Bornstein_   81  
Dick Kriesel_   79  
liamlambert _   79  

Re: Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Karl Becker]

The MMC card is hooked up via an internal memory card reader, and  
shows up an a drive to the computer.  Is there a driver for Windows  
or Mac OS X that allows me to directly access a drive?  Where is a  
place to find all the drivers installed on a system, and to find some  
documentation about them?  The suggestion in the new Revolution  
documentation, reading the file /dev/tty  ,  did not work on my iBook.



On Apr 8, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:


Have you looked at the "open driver" and  "read from driver" commands?

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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[jeffrey reynolds]

yes please me too, i third this!

jeff reynolds

On Apr 8, 2006, at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Hi all,

There are a couple of forums that require registration in order  
to see them
(many that currently do not, will also change). You are missing a  
couple of

nuggets of goodness if you do not register.

It is likely that the next step with the forum will be to get up  
the RSS

support so its readable in a reader such as GreatNews.


Please, please install the capability to use email with the forums.
This will allow you the same degree of control over content that you
want, and will not inconvenience those of us who just don't have
time to click their way through a zillion web pages several times
daily. I do need to read everything that is posted to the mailing
list, but using a web interface will double my access time and
triple the inconvenience. I am sure there is a happy medium for us
all, so that those on slow dialups, or those who just don't have
time to visit a separate forum multiple times per day, can proceed
in a way that is most helpful to everyone.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Yes, yes, please! Me too want this :)


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Re: Had Revolution for over a year and I still can't run a stack file

[J. Landman Gay]

J. Landman Gay wrote:

I know the answer to that one, I think. It happens when you use the 
message box to show a file dialog (or when you have been typing into a 
field) and hit the return key to execute the command. When typing, the 
mouse pointer normally is hidden (replaced by the insertion point). If 
you open a file dialog while the insertion point is present, the mouse 
pointer doesn't reappear when the file dialog opens.


I bugzillaed it some time ago.


And just to follow up, it appears to have been fixed in 2.7. Bugzilla 
pays off. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Kurt Kaufman]

Have you looked at the "open driver" and  "read from driver" commands?
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Re: Had Revolution for over a year and I still can't run a stack file

[J. Landman Gay]

Scott Rossi wrote:

Recently, Len Morgan wrote:



I have had Rev for over a year now (Studio version) and I STILL cannot
run a stack file (by double clicking on it OR using "Open With...") and
have a cursor show up.  As soon as the pointer enters anywhere in the
stack window, it disappears.  I't's still there because if I carefully
move it, I can press buttons and enter text and such but I just can't
see the cursor.



You know, this occurs in the MetaCard IDE as well when a the 'open file'
dialog is present and I've never been able to figure out why.


I know the answer to that one, I think. It happens when you use the 
message box to show a file dialog (or when you have been typing into a 
field) and hit the return key to execute the command. When typing, the 
mouse pointer normally is hidden (replaced by the insertion point). If 
you open a file dialog while the insertion point is present, the mouse 
pointer doesn't reappear when the file dialog opens.


I bugzillaed it some time ago. The workaround for now is to jiggle the 
mouse before executing the command from the message box. I always forget 
to do that, of course.


This is different from the disappearing Windows cursor, which I thought 
got fixed before the last release. Does it still happen in 2.7?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

> There are a couple of forums that require registration in order to see them
> (many that currently do not, will also change). You are missing a couple of
> nuggets of goodness if you do not register.

It's great to see Rev provide an outlet for communication that has been
requested for years.  But like others, I hope email access will be provided.
Besides missing out on "nuggets of goodness", some of us have nuggets we
won't be able to contribute simply by virtue of not having the time to wade
through the forum format.

Thanks for listening Lynn.

Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Rob Cozens]

Moi:


Maybe this is just a morning when I can't get it.



One possibility: My reference is to a "thermometer" progress bar and 
you are using "barber pole" progress bars?


Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

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Re: bugs

[Geoff Canyon]

1. The requirements simply say to display the date -- the date is  
displayed. If non-modality is needed, that should be in the  
requirements.
2. It is certainly possible to put the code someplace inappropriate,  
but I think for the purposes of this assignment we can assume that  
isn't the case. To assume otherwise would be like if I say a car I'm  
selling runs fine and you say, "Not if I drop it out of an airplane."
3. Also a requirements issue. At the time the code is called, it will  
display the date. If the screen saver activates five minutes later,  
thus hiding the date, that's not a bug.
4. Dropping the car out of an airplane. The code _as presented_ is  
bug free, I believe.


I think it's important to note that I don't consider this code to be  
presented "out of context." It is the entire program, in one visible,  
enabled button, on the only card in one stack. It's not very useful,  
but for the extremely limited functionality that it provides, I think  
it is bug free.


My point is that I think it _is_ possible to write bug-free software.  
Not that I have ever done so, of course ;-) Writing bug-free software  
requires two things:


First you need a clear and complete set of requirements. Note that  
there is no equivocation there. The requirements must be totally  
clear, and absolutely complete. The requirements must be such that  
any reasonably intelligent person can sit down, read them, and then  
answer _any_ question about what the software is to do. Furthermore,  
such requirements, should map cleanly to a set of tests. The mapping  
should be bi-directional: given the requirements you should be able  
to produce the tests, and given the tests you should be able to  
produce the requirements.


I have never seen such requirements, nor really anything close to it,  
and that's okay. Requirements like that would be exceptionally hard  
to write, and most people are willing to deal with the issues that  
come with easier-to-write vague specifications.


Second, you need time and effort to work against those requirements.

There is an article on the Space Shuttle software that I find  
interesting:


http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html

Quoting: "Consider these stats : the last three versions of the  
program -- each 420,000 lines long-had just one error each. The last  
11 versions of this software had a total of 17 errors."


The part I don't get is: if you have it down to just one bug, how  
hard is it to find and fix that one bug?


regards,

Geoff

On Apr 8, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:


Geoff-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 12:21:38 AM, you wrote:


So tell me what could go wrong? ;-)


In addition to the "system" date already taken care of,

1. The date is displayed in a modal dialog, which makes further use of
the app impossible until it's dismissed.
2. The mouseUp handler is never called. Did you mean to put it into a
button instead of an unlocked field?
3. I brought up the answer dialog at 11:59PM. When I went back and
checked it five minutes later it still had yesterday's date on it.
4. Displaying the mouseUp handler out of context doesn't guarantee
that it will run without problems. What if your mouseUp handler is in
the stack script and another mouseUp handler in a button intercepts
the message and doesn't pass it? You'll still have some debugging to
do in order to figure out why the date isn't displayed.

The point of all this is not that I'm nit-picking (I am, of course).
The point is that the ambiguities in the requirements can provoke any
number of equally valid (and equally wrong) responses. If I had wanted
the date displayed in the upper-right corner of the main stack and
continually updated, that still would fall under "display the date".
So would the case where I wanted a stack to function as a cgi app and
display the date as a string sent to stdout.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Had Revolution for over a year and I still can't run a stack file

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Len Morgan wrote:

> I have had Rev for over a year now (Studio version) and I STILL cannot
> run a stack file (by double clicking on it OR using "Open With...") and
> have a cursor show up.  As soon as the pointer enters anywhere in the
> stack window, it disappears.  I't's still there because if I carefully
> move it, I can press buttons and enter text and such but I just can't
> see the cursor.

You know, this occurs in the MetaCard IDE as well when a the 'open file'
dialog is present and I've never been able to figure out why.  With enough
jostling of the cursor into and out of the dialog's rect, I can usually get
the cursor to reappear again, but I have no formula as of yet.

Sorry no solution, just a confirmation of (intermittent) behavior.  Chipp
Walters and I batted around solution to the "stuck cursor" issue that arises
with text entry fields but I'm not sure this would work in a situation where
a modal dialog is present.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 31, Issue 20

[bryan mccormick]

Dan, Marielle

At the risk of really opening the hornets nest, here is my 2 cents. Dan, 
I've actually known of you for multiple decades now -- way, way back in 
the dark days of HyperCard 1.0. The thing is this, I know you are a 
stand-up fellow and have done lots of great work for the community then 
and now. I also know you'd never discourage anyone from voicing real 
complaints. At least I didn't until recently when I saw you threaten to 
(or so it seemed, perception in email/list form is a very delicate and 
tricky thing) apparently sic the forum police on some fellow who 
appeared to simply be complaining. I thought that very odd and wasn't 
sure what it was all about. Didn't seem like your usual very cordial 
style. Just so you know. But nothing to "flip the bozo bit" about (for 
those who do not know the book, read it, very germane to this conversation).


Marielle, I too have had some horrific problems with the 2.7 release on 
WinXP in a multi-monitor environment. Same one I've run 2.6.1 in 
successfully without any problems. I have been working with the team by 
reporting what I can, running tests, etc to try to figure this out. 
Frankly I hope it is something that is a configuration problem. I'd 
rather it be that than an engine bug. But I would say we won't know that 
for sometime to come. It could be something subtle and subtle is very, 
very hard to fix. The team is genuinely interested in keeping its 
customers, at least judging from the responses. However it likely does 
not serve the interest of the list in general to keep flogging the issue 
in public. I did it once, wrote a heart-felt message of displeasure to 
the team, got the most cordial reply back you could hope for, and vowed 
to roll up sleeves and keep at it with them. Why? Because anyone who 
would NOT retaliate against the stones I threw really has customer 
hearts and minds close to them. They deserve all the support they can 
get. Had it been other vendors I can assure you (having had the 
experience) the other end of the email would go dark and I'd never have 
satisfaction.


Proffered with the hope of mending fences.


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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Mark Wieder]

Lynn-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 8:18:17 AM, you wrote:

>> Is Transcript now called Revolution as well or was it just a
>> simplification for the press?

> The language is now Revolution.

!!!

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Geoff Canyon]

On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:31 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:


Geoff, et al:


 I generally check the ticks and update based on that:


How do you know in advance the total ticks to complete the operation?


The ticks to complete the operation isn't used for anything. Suppose  
I have to process the elements in an array, and there can be any  
number of elements in the array. I might do something like this:


set the endValue of scrollbar "progress" to \
  the number of lines of the keys of myArray
put ticks() + 10 into tTimer
put 0 into tProgress
repeat for each element tKey in myArray
  add 1 to tProgress
  if ticks() > tTimer then
put ticks() + 10 into tTimer
set the thumbPosition of scrollbar "progress" to tProgress
  end if
  -- process element tKey
end repeat

This guarantees that the scrollbar will update a maximum of six times  
per second. If there are 10,000 elements in myArray and they process  
quickly, this means that the scrollbar is being updated too often  
unless the scrollbar is 10,000 pixels wide ;-)


regards,

Geoff
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Re: Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Karl Becker]

We are using a small PIC processor (a cheap, inexpensive device for  
embedded systems work) to talk directly with the MMC card.  We are  
communicating directly via a serial port to the MMC card, and the  
data is being written directly to the card in a strange method that  
only shows up in a hex editor.


We are not actually specifying a file on the formatted card with the  
PIC processor, but rather we are using the PIC processor to tell the  
MMC which sector we want to write 512 bytes of data.  It is very low  
level and rough, but we seem to be writing some data to the card -  
and I want to access it in Revolution instead of using somebody  
else's hex editor software.


How does the operating system access the direct bits off a card?  And  
how could Revolution do it?  Hopefully this email clarifies my  
problem some, please ask if you want more clarification.


- Karl


On Apr 8, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Jim Ault wrote:


I am confused.
How does the data get written to a hard drive and " not in a file  
of any

sort"

Please explain a little better.
I am sure that you will find that Rev can access anything the  
operating

system can access

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 4/8/06 10:32 AM, "Karl Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I have a formatted FAT32 or NTFS (I can change the file format) MMC
card from which I would like to read data.  However, the data stored
to the card is not written into a tradition file, but rather directly
to the disk and not in a file of any sort.

Is there anyway to read the raw contents of a disk with Revolution?

Thanks,
Karl
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Re: bugs

[Mark Wieder]

Geoff-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 12:21:38 AM, you wrote:

> So tell me what could go wrong? ;-)

In addition to the "system" date already taken care of,

1. The date is displayed in a modal dialog, which makes further use of
the app impossible until it's dismissed.
2. The mouseUp handler is never called. Did you mean to put it into a
button instead of an unlocked field?
3. I brought up the answer dialog at 11:59PM. When I went back and
checked it five minutes later it still had yesterday's date on it.
4. Displaying the mouseUp handler out of context doesn't guarantee
that it will run without problems. What if your mouseUp handler is in
the stack script and another mouseUp handler in a button intercepts
the message and doesn't pass it? You'll still have some debugging to
do in order to figure out why the date isn't displayed.

The point of all this is not that I'm nit-picking (I am, of course).
The point is that the ambiguities in the requirements can provoke any
number of equally valid (and equally wrong) responses. If I had wanted
the date displayed in the upper-right corner of the main stack and
continually updated, that still would fall under "display the date".
So would the case where I wanted a stack to function as a cgi app and
display the date as a string sent to stdout.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Software at the Speed of Thought

[Dan Shafer]

Tim.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm sorry you had to pay double and I'll contact
you offlist about that but I wanted to thank you for your comments.

I have written three new eBooklets, one on CGI, one on Custom Properties and
one most recently on Printing. You can buy them all for $5 each through my
online store at http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main. And I plan to
write several more on targeted topics as well. I'm waiting for the dust from
2.7 to settle and for some clear idea from the community of what subjects
are of most current interest before doing any new ones, though.



On 4/8/06, thulme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Same here. Basically paid double for it. Ended up getting it directly from
> Dan after ordering thru RunRev. But still very happy with the ebook, in
> particular the step by step application at the end of the book. It's one
> of
> the best tutorials I've read and I've read many. What made it so good in
> my
> opinion was that Dan injects a lot of his thought process into the
> tutorial.
> Wish he would write a few more. I'd buy them.
>
> Tim
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Software-at-the-Speed-of-Thought-t1414706.html#a3820033
> Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
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Re: Runtime Revolution Ships Revolution Media; Announce Revolution Forums

[Dan Shafer]

Lynn..

Wow. I was surprised to see your answer that the scripting language
Transcript is being renamed Revolution. How then will it be differentiated
from the product? Or won't it? Intriguing. Not criticizing, just wondering
and a bit bewildered.

On 4/8/06, Lynn Fredricks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> > Nice. Are the forums intended to replace this list or as an
> > additional service? I hope the latter.
>
> http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=209#209
>
> > Also, I find the following paragraph in the pr curious:
> >
> > >Step up to Revolution scripting. English-like Revolution is
> > the easiest
> > >scripting language available - easier than Javascript or
> > Flash ActionScript.
> > >Yet Revolution features all the modern language features that any
> > >developer would expect.
> >
> > Is Transcript now called Revolution as well or was it just a
> > simplification for the press?
>
> The language is now Revolution.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Lynn Fredricks
> Worldwide Business Operations
> Runtime Revolution, Ltd
>
>
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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Rob Cozens]

Hi Robert,

 If I am running a process of 100 loops and my bar is 200 pixels, then 
I want to update for each step. However, if my process runs 1 
loops, then updating for each step is pointless since the bar will not 
visibly move and updating every 50-100 steps will do.


Maybe this is just a morning when I can't get it.

But unless your handler is hard-coded to the specific loop or makes a 
runtime decision on whether to update every 50 steps, every 100 steps, 
or some number in between, I see no way the position of the progress 
bar can accurately reflect the percentage of task completion in all 
circumstances.


What I posted was generalized logic that calculates the number of steps 
required to move the progress bar one pixel, regardless of the width of 
the bar.  That is the minimum steps required before resetting the 
thumbPosition is visually manifested on the screen.  Anything more 
produces "jerkier" movements.


Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

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Re: Linux Engine Licensing - Please Read

[Dan Shafer]

Lynn

There will be several sessions at RevCon West 2006 in Monterey June 16-17 on
Rev and the Internet. In fact, it is emerging as one of our primary focal
points of the conference.

On 4/8/06, Lynn Fredricks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Since RevConWest 2006 is coming up, it might be a good topic for
> discussion
> as well there.
>
>
>
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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Dan Shafer]

Marielle...

That was one of the strangest posts I've ever gotten on a mailing list. I
went back and read my original message and for the life of me I can't figure
out what you're trying to tell me.

The only point I made was that sometimes -- stress that word -- what one
person sees as a bug or defect in the product is more a function of their
personal usage or system configuration. So when someone posts a complaint on
this list -- and contrary to your apparent view of me, I've done that tons
of times myself -- it is *sometimes* not really a product defect or bug but
rather a conflict between what they expect and what they experience that is
explainable by reasons other than bugs in Rev.

Does Rev have bugs? Absolutely. I'd be astonished if it didn't. Is this an
appropriate forum in which to discuss such bugs? Absolutely. Particularly in
an effort to determine if a particular experience *is* a bug or just a
mis-understanding or a result of inaccurate documentation. I do not believe
you can cite one instance where I have criticized anyone here for reporting
a bug. I have corrected misperceptions about bugs and I have added my voice
to a chorus saying, "That's not really a bug." But I don't believe I have
ever invalidated a person's experience; I'm just not made that way.

It is hardly the case that *anyone* on this list engages in the behavior you
describe in the paragraph I've excerpted below from your very long diatribe.
A few criticisms that were not repeatable in my experience and which seemed
to me to be potentially due to issues that were not *directly* related to
Revolution have certainly been subjects to which I have responded with
justification or correction. You imply that all such criticisms are valid
and should not be replied to other than in a positive, supportive manner. I
would find that useless as a form of communication.

I don't know what I've done to offend you that would cause you to take the
time away from what I presume is a busy schedule to write so long and
detailed a response, but if I have personally offended you in any way, I
apologize.

On 4/8/06, Marielle Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You are setting up a greater and greater divide between persons who
> have some valid criticisms to make and persons who refuse to let any
> single criticism pass without being justified/corrected.
>
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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
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Re: Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Jim Ault]

I am confused.
How does the data get written to a hard drive and " not in a file of any
sort"

Please explain a little better.
I am sure that you will find that Rev can access anything the operating
system can access

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 4/8/06 10:32 AM, "Karl Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have a formatted FAT32 or NTFS (I can change the file format) MMC
> card from which I would like to read data.  However, the data stored
> to the card is not written into a tradition file, but rather directly
> to the disk and not in a file of any sort.
> 
> Is there anyway to read the raw contents of a disk with Revolution?
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl
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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Robert Brenstein]

Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Hi all,

There are a couple of forums that require registration in order to see them
(many that currently do not, will also change). You are missing a couple of
nuggets of goodness if you do not register.

It is likely that the next step with the forum will be to get up the RSS
support so its readable in a reader such as GreatNews.


Please, please install the capability to use email with the forums. 
This will allow you the same degree of control over content that you 
want, and will not inconvenience those of us who just don't have 
time to click their way through a zillion web pages several times 
daily. I do need to read everything that is posted to the mailing 
list, but using a web interface will double my access time and 
triple the inconvenience. I am sure there is a happy medium for us 
all, so that those on slow dialups, or those who just don't have 
time to visit a separate forum multiple times per day, can proceed 
in a way that is most helpful to everyone.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Yes, yes, please! Me too want this :)
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Re: bugs

[Rob Cozens]

Moi:

I was more venting emotions built up after reading previous posts on 
this thread


Apparently being rude to Geoff did not complete the catharsis, as I 
feel the need to offer these thoughts as well:


* Just so we're sure we're comparing apples to apples:  My closest 
contact on Microfinancial Corp's Flexware programming team used to say 
"FlexWare is bug free...so long as people use it the way they are 
supposed to."  If any among you are making the contention "my software 
is bug free" on the basis of "I tested all the features and they work 
for me", your definition of "bug-free" is quite different from mine: if 
5% or more of your users make the same mistake, that's your fault, not 
theirs.


* If the industry norm was that no software would be shipped if it 
contained a single known bug, there would be no industry...unless you 
can point to an operating system that meets that requirement.


* Considering the number of auto safety recalls, personal instances of 
packages (eg: auto parts) not containing what they are supposed to, 
spelling & grammar errors in newscasts, etc., I suggest if builders 
built buildings and auto workers built cars and packagers packed 
product the way programmers wrote programs and news writers paid the 
same attention to spelling & "grammar" as programmers, we might have a 
more productive society in general.  [Not that I fault workers for 
having no more dedication to their employers than their employers have 
for them.]


Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"There's nothing wrong with Capitalism except Capitalists:
 they're too damn greedy!"   -- Herbert Hoover

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Re: bugs

[Mark Wieder]

David-

Saturday, April 8, 2006, 4:26:49 AM, you wrote:

> In a way, yes, but on the other hand, I worked at one place that had
> around 5 imaging products and they all used a couple of common  
> libraries. It made sense in this case for QA to track which versions
> of the libraries were used in the build of which products. Also since
> they were Shared Libraries (DLLs), they would switch out libraries  
> and move back to older versions to track when a "bug" was introduced.
> They also had a Library test tool, which exercised the API.

Maybe they "exorcised" it... 

There's a fine line between unit testing and white-box testing. I
write api test harnesses from the QA end of things, but I expect that
by the time I get to run my test suite the api will already have
passed development's unit tests. There may be overlap, and probably
should be, but I see the two as functionally different. But less so
now that XP's test-before-code methodology has taken hold.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Can I read a disk's raw data, like in a hex editor?

[Karl Becker]

I have a formatted FAT32 or NTFS (I can change the file format) MMC  
card from which I would like to read data.  However, the data stored  
to the card is not written into a tradition file, but rather directly  
to the disk and not in a file of any sort.


Is there anyway to read the raw contents of a disk with Revolution?

Thanks,
Karl
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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Jacque,

Yes, it is possible to install an addition to the forum that 
lets use choose whether to use the web based interface, mail 
only, or both. Thanks for bringing this up.


I hope that RunRev will quickly install this addition, which is 
readily available from .


Best,

Mark

J. Landman Gay wrote:

Lynn Fredricks wrote:


Hi all,

There are a couple of forums that require registration in order to see 
them
(many that currently do not, will also change). You are missing a 
couple of

nuggets of goodness if you do not register.

It is likely that the next step with the forum will be to get up the RSS
support so its readable in a reader such as GreatNews.



Please, please install the capability to use email with the forums. This 
will allow you the same degree of control over content that you want, 
and will not inconvenience those of us who just don't have time to click 
their way through a zillion web pages several times daily. I do need to 
read everything that is posted to the mailing list, but using a web 
interface will double my access time and triple the inconvenience. I am 
sure there is a happy medium for us all, so that those on slow dialups, 
or those who just don't have time to visit a separate forum multiple 
times per day, can proceed in a way that is most helpful to everyone.




--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ehug.info

Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet 
users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html 
for more information.


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Re: Register at Forums to See Everything

[J. Landman Gay]

Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Hi all,

There are a couple of forums that require registration in order to see them
(many that currently do not, will also change). You are missing a couple of
nuggets of goodness if you do not register.

It is likely that the next step with the forum will be to get up the RSS
support so its readable in a reader such as GreatNews.


Please, please install the capability to use email with the forums. This 
will allow you the same degree of control over content that you want, 
and will not inconvenience those of us who just don't have time to click 
their way through a zillion web pages several times daily. I do need to 
read everything that is posted to the mailing list, but using a web 
interface will double my access time and triple the inconvenience. I am 
sure there is a happy medium for us all, so that those on slow dialups, 
or those who just don't have time to visit a separate forum multiple 
times per day, can proceed in a way that is most helpful to everyone.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Revolution is very slow to refresh fields. How can I speed it up?

[Robert Brenstein]

Alex & Geoff,


You don't need to know how many ticks it takes.


OK, I'll bite: just how does one set the end value of the scrollBar 
if one does not have an idea of how many loops or how many ticks the 
entire process will take?


Suppose, for example, one is downloading a file.  Changing the 
thumbPosition every fixed number of ticks means that after x tricks 
the progress bar will have the same setting regardless the file size 
(eg: a 5MB file download will show exactly the same progress as a 
10MB download or a 100MB download).


Also, how does one know the progress bar won't get completely to the 
end well before the process is completed?


Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company


I think you are confusing two different aspects of progress bars. The 
total progress is controlled by whatever parameter applies, be it the 
number of files or the size or whatever makes us define the progress. 
What was suggested is that the code that actually does the progress 
display is not updating the bar more often than every 5-10 ticks (or 
whatever is determined for a given system). That saves on system 
having to update the display more often than needed and thus gives 
extra cpu cycles to your program. Of course, this has to be applied 
differently to different situations. In the example of downloading a 
while that you mentioned, the internet connection can be a bottleneck 
and thus there is no point to concern yourself with the frequency the 
bar is updated. If I am running a process of 100 loops and my bar is 
200 pixels, then I want to update for each step. However, if my 
process runs 1 loops, then updating for each step is pointless 
since the bar will not visibly move and updating every 50-100 steps 
will do.


Robert
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Re: Software at the Speed of Thought

[thulme]

Same here. Basically paid double for it. Ended up getting it directly from
Dan after ordering thru RunRev. But still very happy with the ebook, in
particular the step by step application at the end of the book. It's one of
the best tutorials I've read and I've read many. What made it so good in my
opinion was that Dan injects a lot of his thought process into the tutorial.
Wish he would write a few more. I'd buy them.

Tim
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Software-at-the-Speed-of-Thought-t1414706.html#a3820033
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Rob Cozens]

Hi Dave,

I really don't think you understand the ISM concept and think it's 
some strange thing that is somehow going against the way Xtalk's work. 
It's really not. It's really just a convenient and flexible way of 
allowing an object to communicate with other objects without having to 
explicitly tell the objects what do do.


I agree 100%...which is why I said "possibly."

And it wouldn't be the first concept I couldn't grasp in totality: I 
believe Xavier Bury's XOS and more recent concepts would be well-worth 
understanding; but I have not found the time nor the key to 
understanding.


I read the example, think I understand each sentence, but draw a blank 
when comes to drawing parallels with my techniques and needs.


Maybe when ISM is unveiled to the world, others will help me get a 
better grasp.



Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

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Register at Forums to See Everything

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi all,

There are a couple of forums that require registration in order to see them
(many that currently do not, will also change). You are missing a couple of
nuggets of goodness if you do not register.

It is likely that the next step with the forum will be to get up the RSS
support so its readable in a reader such as GreatNews.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: [Ticket#: 2006040510000641] Re: [OT] Articles to read

[Bob Warren]

The last thing I want to do today, particularly after my personal 
experiences of yesterday not connected with this list, is to get mixed 
up in psychological analyses. But in view of the fact that certain 
analyses have been made based my recent posts and the List's reactions 
to them, I would just like to say a few words that think might be 
appropriate.


I have lived in Brazil for more than half my life, and one of the first 
things I had to learn early on was that cultural attitudes towards the 
truth can be very different. For example, in England, we expect a doctor 
always to tell us the truth about our diagnosis, and if he doesn't do 
that, he can even get sued for it. So if a cancer patient has two weeks 
to live, the doctor says "You have two weeks to live", and that's that. 
In Brazil, this would be considered by many doctors to be unethical. 
After all, if the poor patient really does have only two weeks to live, 
what right does the doctor have to spoil the last 2 weeks of the 
patient's life?


What I am trying to say is that although the truth is of fundamental 
importance, it is not always wise to go around hitting people over the 
head with it. The main reason is that it tends to create symmetrical 
relationships and the eventual polarization expressed far too often in 
the form of war. More complementary relationships are needed in this 
warring world of ours, and consequently on this List.


Although the fundamental purpose of this list is to discuss technical 
issues, the fact that we are drawn into arguments about questions of 
management, and even of individual personalities, is inevitable. 
However, on this occasion I have been extremly gratified to see that the 
situation has not got completely and utterly out of hand, as it has 
sometimes done on previous occasions.


One of the fundamental guiding principles I try to use (but sometimes 
fail in using adequately, I admit) is that ALL ideas are valuable, 
including the ones we might initially disagree with or find obnoxious.
Or in other words, it is more important to attempt to use the creative 
potential of a wrong idea than to abandon it. The theory of "lateral" 
thinking and psychology is easy, but the practice of it can take years 
of dedication and perhaps education.


That's all. Now let's get back to the technicalities of computer 
programming, until the next punchup, which we all enjoy as long as we 
don't get hurt too much!


Regards to all,
Bob Warren


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