Re: how to place a dialog window

[Phil Davis]

Hi Mark,

Personally I'm not aware that you can set the screen position of a standard Rev 
dialog, though I'm willing to be corrected.


I often use a substack as a dialog. That way I have complete control over it - 
in theory :o)  Then in its stack script I put:


on preOpenStack
  set the loc of me to the screenLoc -- or the loc of the app, etc
end preOpenStack

So my custom dialog is positioned before it becomes visible.


That's one way.

Phil Davis



Mark Swindell wrote:

What is the correct syntax to tell Rev where to place a dialog window?

Example:

Ask "What's your name?" (at the location of this wd)

Thanks
Mark

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how to place a dialog window

[Mark Swindell]

What is the correct syntax to tell Rev where to place a dialog window?

Example:

Ask "What's your name?" (at the location of this wd)

Thanks
Mark
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Re: Rev_rant

[Kay C Lan]

On 11/7/06, Luis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Definitely a Tuesday.


No, it's definitely a Wednesday, and it was Wednesday 10 hours ago
when you sent your email:-)

We all have a different experience.

I think Ken's point is very good, we wouldn't want anyone else joining
Richmond as a recipient of the UserList Medal of Dishonour;-)

Where's Sivakatirswami when you need him. He always has a nice
soothing tone to his emails.

Where ever you are on the planet, and whatever day/night of the week
it is for you, I hope you day's going to be as good as I've planned
for mine - home handyman jobs temporarily put on hold, wife gone to
work, kids at school, just an empty house, my computer and me:-)
Sssshhh, don't tell anyone but I'm going to start Revolution:-)
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Re: Position of tabs in tabbed button

[Chipp Walters]

You can always roll your own as well.
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Re: Position of tabs in tabbed button

[Roger . E . Eller]

> On 11/7/06 4:39 AM, "Martin Blackman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> List users,
>>
>> Is there any way one can change the 'alignment' of tabs in a tabbed 
button ?
>>
>> By default they are at the left, I'd like to try them on the right
>> hand side to make a GUI of mine more compact.
> 
> Not that I'm aware of...
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.

That would be a great enhancement request though. Left, center, or right 
alignment would be a nice choice to have. It would also be nice to have an 
option for vertical tabs. A workaround is to use multiple buttons that use 
icon images designed to look like tabs, and position them as you like. The 
good thing about this method is your tabs will look the same on all 
platforms (if that is what you want).

Roger Eller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: Position of tabs in tabbed button

[Ken Ray]

On 11/7/06 4:39 AM, "Martin Blackman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> List users,
> 
> Is there any way one can change the 'alignment' of tabs in a tabbed button ?
> 
> By default they are at the left, I'd like to try them on the right
> hand side to make a GUI of mine more compact.

Not that I'm aware of...
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Rev_rant

[Ken Ray]

On 11/7/06 9:42 AM, "Luis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If I perceive a failing in an environment, I will state it, whether or
> not I decide to utilise that environment in my projects.

Understood. But I'd only suggest three things here: (1) that your comments
are framed in a constructive way, and (2) that you wait a bit after you have
come to your conclusion to validate it before you post to the list, and (3)
that you post it as a question to the list looking for confirmation of your
conclusion (or alternatively, correction to same), as opposed to a
observational statement.

Example:

"I understand that some people have not gotten quick responses to their
support questions. Is this true? And if so, does anyone know why?"

vs. 

"People haven't gotten responses from tech support. This could be an
indicator that no one knows how to support the product."


See the difference?

> There will come a point, if that environment has not evolved into what I
> reckon it should (call this bug fixes, features, take your pick) I will
> drop it. This is my personal opinion, no better or worse than anyone else's.

Sure, and I think we all do that - use a program until it doesn't fit what
we need, then move on.

> The fact that others have become more vocal is perhaps an indicator of
> frustration, realising they are not alone, want to inject some life back
> into their favourite dev environment, whatever.

Or, more likely, it could be that they thought you were premature in your
judgments and wanted to make it clear. If someone says something that
offends my friend and I jump to their defense, it is not because I silently
agree with the offender and just want to get some conversation going...

;-)

> I wonder if the current issues with delayed bug fixes is indicating some
> sort of developer drop out, resulting in lower sales, therefore lower
> Rev resources.

Or, more likely, that there are just so many hours in the day and just so
many people to work on them.

I would suggest using Occam's razor on these kinds of speculations - "All
things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Cheers,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: error while saving the standalone application

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Reinhold,

FYI, selecting Mac OS X and Windows at the same time should not be  
the reason for the error reported by the standalone builder.


Best,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 7-nov-2006, om 23:59 heeft Reinhold Venzl-Schubert het volgende  
geschreven:



Hi!

Sorry! I selected MacOS X and WIndows at the same time.
Later I tried to save my stack only as a MacOS X- application and I  
was successful.


Reinhold Venzl-Schubert

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Re: Go Next Card Sluggish in2.7.4?

[Chipp Walters]

Sivakatirswami,

You might try pre-caching the go next.

I typically go to each card on startup (screen locked) to make sure they are
all cached. Of course with a very big stack it's not possible, but might be
wise to try and think of some sort of intelligent pre-cache.

-Chipp
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error while saving the standalone application

[Reinhold Venzl-Schubert]

Hi!

I tried to save a stack as a standalone application. But at the end  
I got the message:

"There was an error while saving the standalone application"
That as all, no more information!

What can I do to find out the error?
Is there any help?


Sorry! I selected MacOS X and WIndows at the same time.
Later I tried to save my stack only as a MacOS X- application and I  
was successful.


Reinhold Venzl-Schubert

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Re: Go Next Card Sluggish in2.7.4?

[Robert Brenstein]

I have a little dBase in a stack with about 900 cards, each card has 
40 fields.
one field in the cards has a fair bit of text data. Still stack file 
size on disk is only 5.8 megs

Not really that big. I've got plenty of RAM and plenty disk space.
I've put together stacks that run to 15 megabytes in size and
under previous versions they ran very fast.

But under 2.7.4  a button

On mouseup
 go next card
end mouseup

throws a busy icon, after a bit of time, the next card is presented.
 I have arrows set to navigate... if I hit the right arrow, or cmd-3 in the
IDE I get the same sluggishness.


Is the behavior same when you add 'lock messages' before 'go'?

Robert
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Re: Rev_rant

[Chipp Walters]

I'm really not sure what the purpose of your publicized issue is, unless
you're just trolling for negative responses. I'd have assumed you have
received enough of them by now.

AFAIK, and I've been active with RR for many, many years, there are no fewer
or greater 'delayed bug fixes' than there have ever been.

Now, if hypothetically speaking you were a marketing person for a competing
product, and interested in driving potential users away from this
environment, and thus hurting it, I certainly could better understand the
motivation for such assertions on a friendly list such as this.

Typically, when I join a new list, I try and learn as much as I can about
the product and it's users before criticizing them publicly. You are
certainly welcome to profess any disdain for the product and company, just
know those of us who make a living using this product, may consider it more
than just your own naive .

Sorry Tuesdays are so hard for you.

On 11/7/06, Luis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




I wonder if the current issues with delayed bug fixes is indicating some
sort of developer drop out, resulting in lower sales, therefore lower
Rev resources.




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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Timothy Miller]

J. Landman Gay wrote:
Ask anyone here what I have contributed to this community and then 
tell me I don't care.


In my experience, Jacque has been generous with her time and expertise, 
patient, and good natured. Needless to say, she's got plenty of ability, 
too.


Tim
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Re: Great things about Rev

[Chipp Walters]

Nicely worded post Bernard. Sometimes it's easier to criticize than
recognize. Good job.
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Re: error while saving the standalone application

[J. Landman Gay]

Reinhold Venzl-Schubert wrote:

Hi!

I tried to save a stack as a standalone application. But at the end I 
got the message:

"There was an error while saving the standalone application"
That as all, no more information!

What can I do to find out the error?


Here are some common reasons for the standalone builder to fail:

1. The path to the stack contains non-ASCII characters, such as 
diacritical marks or accent marks.  Avoid the use of accented or 
non-ASCII characters in path names.


2. The standalone builder is set to search for inclusions but the stack 
is password protected. Select the inclusions manually instead, or remove 
the password.


3. Alternately, the standalone builder may be having trouble searching 
for the required inclusions regardless of password protection. Turn off 
"Search for required inclusions" and turn on "Select inclusions for the 
standalone application." Then choose the resources you need to include 
yourself in the Standalone Settings dialog.


4. The folder name is the same as your standalone's name. You need a 
unique folder name; make sure you select an empty folder with a name 
different from the standalone's name.  If you have previously built a 
standalone from the same stack, do not try to build a new one into the 
same folder. Trying to overwrite an existing standalone with a new one 
can casue problems. Rename or remove the old folder first, and then build.



5. Your source stack's file name does not use an extension, or uses an 
incorrect extension. Make sure your stack's file name ends with the 
extension ".rev"




--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Great things about Rev

[Bernard Devlin]

I don't know what is the cause of so much negativity on the list.   
Sometimes those things just spiral by accident.


Anyway, I just want to point out how things look to me - a long time  
lurker, and sometime user of Revolution.  I follow the list daily,  
but rarely have the time to contribute much (I'm always trying to do  
more than I'm really capable of doing!)  The people on this list are  
some of the most helpful and good-natured people on any list that I  
follow (and I get 200+ emails a day from various lists).


I first looked at Metacard a few years before Revolution existed, and  
I thought it was a toy, and an overpriced toy at that.  More fool me  
- I couldn't see passed the (beautiful) simplicity of the concept,  
and was just focusing on the simplicty of the marketing.  RunRev have  
marketed Rev more effectively, and the IDE and documentation showed  
me what I couldn't see by myself when I'd looked at Metacard.   
Furthermore, they opened up pricing options (Studio, Dreamcard,  
Media) that make it far more feasible for many people to adopt it as  
a development platform.  If things had remained as they were  
(Metacard was approx $1000), I would never have adopted it as one of  
my tools, and would not have recommended it to others.


But Runrev also  added lots of database access features (ODBC, MySql,  
Valentina, PostgreSQL, Oracle).  They added xml support.  They added  
improved look and feel on many platforms.


They responded to repeated complaints about accessibility.  They  
changed the documentation to make it more accessible; and they  
structured it as XML, making it easier for others to build different  
interfaces into the docs (as I myself have done). They added video  
and PDF tutorials.   People nagged for a forum - others said they  
preferred the list... RunRev obliged and provided both.  There are  
benefits to both - I would like to see the forum being used in a more  
structured way to keep permanent searchable records of useful code,  
tips and gotchas.   There were complaints about the externals  
interface - they had that re-written in an attempt to improve it (I  
don't believe I'm adept enough to judge if it is better or not).   
People wanted SSL, that was provided.


The scripting conferences were a great idea (and driven by Jacques).   
The RevCons are also fantastic (even though I have trouble attending  
them).  Making the videos available on DVD for so little money is  
unbelievable.  In fact, the current offer (along with a studio update  
pack) was just too good to pass by.


I don't personally see the benefit of the U3 stuff or the new zip  
features, but that's not to say that others don't find these features  
useful.


I'm sure there are loads of other things that have been added that  
I'm forgetting.  I would love it if others could add on the  
improvements they consider notable too.


Even though they might have changed the purchase/updates options in a  
way that I might think is off-putting for new users, I have always  
found (since my first purchase 4 years ago) that the options  
available to me when it comes to upgrade/renewal are very  
reasonable.  In fact, in my experience they have bent over backwards  
to offer me enticing upgrade paths, and always without me asking for  
any special concession.


I have no hesitation in recommending Rev to anyone who wants to pick  
up programming.


I don't think Rev is suitable for every programming area, but I am  
often amazed at what I see being done by users of this list.  But it  
seems that the users of this list often have quite a diversity in the  
ways in which they want to see Rev improve.  Obviously, it is going  
to be hard for the tool to be all things to all women.  But at least  
with bugzilla being open and votable, and both bugs and improvements  
going into that, Runrev are open to influence by us users in ways  
that many other tools are not open.  And finally, there is always the  
option of being an 'enterprise' user and joining the improve list.  I  
think that laying out that kind of dosh is a good indication of one's  
commitment to the product and way of weeding out noise.  If things go  
according to plan with my current development, I will be happy to  
step up and join that group if it means I can support and have some  
direction on the tool that is still in a league of its own.


In the light of all the things that they've done to enhance the tool,  
market it, provide pricing options, provide documentation and  
tutorial options, and discussion options, it doesn't surprise me that  
some bugs may have gone unresolved for longer than people might  
hope.  I still think they are doing a great job, and provide very  
good value and service.


Bernard Devlin


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Re: error while saving the standalone application

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Reinhold,

I'd start with making sure that all necessary files are available,  
including icons and "other files". Also make sure that your stacks  
have the extension ".rev". Make sure that you have write permission  
for the destination folder, as Andre has pointed out.


Have you tried quitting Revolution and reopening it? What happens if  
you try making a standalone from an empty stack or from an older  
version of your problem stack?


If nothing works, you can turn on Show Revolution UI Elements in  
Lists (in the View menu) and remove the custom properties set  
cRevStandaloneSettings from the custom properties pane in the  
properties inspector. If you do so, you have to enter all standalone  
settings again.


Best,

Mark

--

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Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 7-nov-2006, om 21:08 heeft Reinhold Venzl-Schubert het volgende  
geschreven:



Hi!

I tried to save a stack as a standalone application. But at the end  
I got the message:

"There was an error while saving the standalone application"
That as all, no more information!

What can I do to find out the error?
Is there any help?

Thanks
Reinhold Venzl-Schubert



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Re: error while saving the standalone application

[Andre Garzia]

Reinhold,

does your standalone uses any non-standard place? where are you  
trying to save it? maybe you don't have write permission to that  
folder. Are you on a mac or windows?


Andre

On Nov 7, 2006, at 9:08 PM, Reinhold Venzl-Schubert wrote:


Hi!

I tried to save a stack as a standalone application. But at the end  
I got the message:

"There was an error while saving the standalone application"
That as all, no more information!

What can I do to find out the error?
Is there any help?

Thanks
Reinhold Venzl-Schubert
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Marielle Lange]

I certainly do not intone Luis to be "the most decadent newbie,"  
only perhaps an ill-informed one.


Exact, Chipp, your answer didn't include any attack against Luis...  
and I thank you for that.


But the guy had apologized (let's not discuss whether this was a  
convincing one or not)... and still he continued to be told off,  
being accused of more than his words had implied.



Your attitude is out of order.


I wouldn't call Luis a saint It is not just his attitude that has  
been out of order.


Marielle

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error while saving the standalone application

[Reinhold Venzl-Schubert]

Hi!

I tried to save a stack as a standalone application. But at the end I  
got the message:

"There was an error while saving the standalone application"
That as all, no more information!

What can I do to find out the error?
Is there any help?

Thanks
Reinhold Venzl-Schubert
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Chipp Walters]

Wow, so it appears Luis is taking time to admonish Rev Support based on
another person's experience, even though his own experience has been
documented as more than reasonable (by Rev's standards). I certainly do not
intone Luis to be "the most decadent newbie," only perhaps an ill-informed
one.

On 11/7/06, J. Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I don't think that's the problem. In all cases but one, he received a
reply on the same day. The one time it took longer, he received a reply
in two days.

I believe he was responding to someone else who said they had problems.



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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[J. Landman Gay]

Andre Garzia wrote:


If Luis sent and email couple times and got no response,


I don't think that's the problem. In all cases but one, he received a 
reply on the same day. The one time it took longer, he received a reply 
in two days.


I believe he was responding to someone else who said they had problems.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Newbie information and list attitude

[Phil Davis]

Andre Garzia wrote:

Heather,

you and the RevGurus out there make my life much more fun and easier, 
thanks for your hard work.


if I get rich one day, I'll issue RevAwards or something...



Andre - When my ship comes in, would you mind if I added to the RevAwards pot 
too? It would be exhilarating to give back at that level!


I bet there are lots of people on this list whose core feeling toward RunRev is 
gratitude for what they've given us. OK, they've sold it to us. Minor 
distinction, considering the magnitude of Revolution's value to our work lives.


Phil Davis
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Re: Newbie information and list attitude

[J. Landman Gay]

Heather Nagey wrote:

It's easy to misinterpret an email. 


I probably did that. Fortunately I'm already over it. Luis, no hard 
feelings and I apologize if I misread you. You say you intended no 
offense and I will take that at face value.


What I really hope didn't happen is that you get soured on Revolution 
because of today's interchange. That would be tragic. The software is a 
beautiful thing in spite of its occasional flaws, and it really does 
inspire a passion one doesn't usually associate with software. I've 
noticed that some of its most vocal critics are also the same people who 
love it the most. I sincerely hope you will stay with it for a while so 
that you can see it too.


Thanks for the show of support to those who responded, but I need to 
remember to let the water roll off my back in the future.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Andre Garzia]

If I was not in Malta, drinking wine and making toasts to Richard and  
the others who could not be here, I'd be very upset by luis emails.  
He is a begginer here, okay, so before shouting, he should learn. I  
will not touch the topic of him attacking Jacque or not, Jacque is  
the most amazing person ever and she even listened to my bad english  
and poor jokes. Without her support and support from other very  
wonderful people here, my life would be very different.


If Luis sent and email couple times and got no response, thats does  
not imply that runrev support is ineficient, anyone with a little  
experience/knowledge knows that email cannot be trusted, blacklists  
aren't the worst thing here. Email fails, period. If he was in need  
of help, besides trying to reach runrev, he could always tried to be  
polite and reach this list, someone might have answered...


I don't like his tone. I don't like the tone some members are giving  
to the list. This list was the sole purpose of me sticking to Rev  
while I was learning, I don't want some people with too much free  
time on their hand, to send lots of weird tone emails and spoil the  
list experience of some new guys here... If I was entering this  
community today, and saw all this useless discussion and subtext, I'd  
probably leave.


If Luis has a problem, send a polite email explaining what is the  
actual problem that triggered the support call, we might be able to  
shed a clue or two or even solve it.


andre

On Nov 7, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Marielle Lange wrote:



That's all. No need to treat Luis to be the most decadent newbie we  
have every seen on this list just because he made that error and  
got very frustrated as a result.


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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Marielle Lange]

Luis wrote in response to Jacque:
And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an  
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming  
with the facts. Just a thought.

The above is a weak and wordy way of calling Jacque a liar.


Can you please stop this!?

My own understanding is that you put in Luis' mouth words he never had.

Take the facts: I had *exactly* the same problems as Luis. I sent 3  
emails to support, spaced by a week, I only got an answer only on the  
third email.


Take his perspective. He is a new guy, he tries to send emails to  
support, they don't get answered what is he supposed to think?


Take mine. My experience of support is that I generally get a prompt  
and helpful reply. When I recently failed to get a reply, I was  
surprised. But then, the next day, when I tried to connect to their  
forums, I saw that the website was temporarily down. This got me  
conclude that they are doing some major changes to their  
infrastructures. I toke it for a rather positive sign. I waited for a  
week or so ... and sent another email.


There is no question that Jacque is a very earnest and dedicated  
person and that she promptly  replies to each email she receives,  
trying to offer as much support as she can. However, as high as  
Jacque's or Heather dedications unquestionably are ... this doen't  
make Luis' comment in any way invalid. Luis didn't comment on  
Jacque's dedication. He commented on the fact that if some emails  
never got processed (got lost is some alternative cue), then this  
would make support rather inefficient.


But I don't see any benefit to push any discussion of this any  
further...


At the period I had problems, another user reported a similar  
experience on the forum, so that was most probably some very  
temporary problem due to the change over to the new system... or  
problems caused by the fact that I replied to an old email back from  
support with a new request (rather than always make sure we use a  
brand new subject line).


Conclusion:
Don't reply to an old ticket if you want to be sure that your request  
is treated promptly


That's all. No need to treat Luis to be the most decadent newbie we  
have every seen on this list just because he made that error and got  
very frustrated as a result.


Marielle

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Re: Newbie information and list attitude

[Andre Garzia]

Heather,

you and the RevGurus out there make my life much more fun and easier,  
thanks for your hard work.


if I get rich one day, I'll issue RevAwards or something...

Cheers
andre



On Nov 7, 2006, at 7:27 PM, Heather Nagey wrote:


Dear List Members,

It has been drawn to my attention that we have some new list  
members who perhaps don't know as much about this community as they  
should. Let me rectify that.


This is a warm, helpful, giving community, and one of Revolution's  
greatest assets. Everyone on this list gives freely of their time  
and expertise to help people find answers to questions about  
Revolution. In particular the most experienced gurus on this list  
give with amazing generosity to help newbies. You know who you are.  
Please accept once again the sincere thanks of everyone at  
Revolution for the help you give here.


The rules of participation in this list include courtesy and  
tolerance of each other. It is not a venue to make personal attacks  
of any kind, and any inadvertent offence that may be caused should  
be promptly and sincerely atoned for.


It's easy to misinterpret an email. It doesn't contain enough  
information to know if you said it with a smile or a snarl. Please  
use smilies where appropriate, read your email carefully before you  
send to see whether it may inadvertently cause offence, and if you  
do cause offence that you did not intend, acknowledge it in a way  
that will not cause further offence.


If you intended to cause offence, this list is not for you.

Regards,

Heather

ListMom and Customer Support Manager

Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[SimPLsol]

Luis,
There are very few people who have been as critical of Rev, the company, and 
Rev, the product, as I have been over the past half decade. I'd like to 
believe all of that criticism has been, at best, constructive or, at least, 
civil. 
Your criticism is neither.
Jacque's efforts to the cause are legendary. She has demonstrated a degree of 
credibility, expertise, patience, and care that are seldom found in anyone, 
anywhere. She is probably the absolute worst target for your critique - 
especially with this group. 
I'd suggest that next time you feel the urge to attack a person, instead of a 
problem, you choose and easier target...
Meanwhile recognize that this is a very special group. It is populated with 
extraordinarily generous contributors. It addresses diverse and sometime 
divisive topics with candor, commitment - and, most important, respect. It adds 
value to Rev, the product, in a way that Rev, the company, (no matter how big, 
or 
how well funded) could ever provide. Remember this list is hosted by Rev. They 
pay to keep it up and running. Heather moderates it with a light hand. It is 
far more tolerant of product criticism than any company list is required or 
expected to be. It seem to me that the main thing Heather requires is good 
manners. I don't believe that is too much to ask.
Finally, I believe you really do owe Jacque an apology.
Paul Looney
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Newbie information and list attitude

[Heather Nagey]

Dear List Members,

It has been drawn to my attention that we have some new list members  
who perhaps don't know as much about this community as they should.  
Let me rectify that.


This is a warm, helpful, giving community, and one of Revolution's  
greatest assets. Everyone on this list gives freely of their time and  
expertise to help people find answers to questions about Revolution.  
In particular the most experienced gurus on this list give with  
amazing generosity to help newbies. You know who you are. Please  
accept once again the sincere thanks of everyone at Revolution for  
the help you give here.


The rules of participation in this list include courtesy and  
tolerance of each other. It is not a venue to make personal attacks  
of any kind, and any inadvertent offence that may be caused should be  
promptly and sincerely atoned for.


It's easy to misinterpret an email. It doesn't contain enough  
information to know if you said it with a smile or a snarl. Please  
use smilies where appropriate, read your email carefully before you  
send to see whether it may inadvertently cause offence, and if you do  
cause offence that you did not intend, acknowledge it in a way that  
will not cause further offence.


If you intended to cause offence, this list is not for you.

Regards,

Heather

ListMom and Customer Support Manager

Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Judy Perry]

Wow.

When someone patiently explains to you how the system works, and explains
that she is indeed part of that system, and you continue to offer
insults...

How is that supposed to be helpful?

Jacque's one of the most tireless, patient, and giving members of the
x-talk community, a community it seems that is evidently not for you.

Judy

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Luis wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> > Luis wrote:
> >
> >> To clarify, just in case, the lower portion of my response was
> >> addressed to RunRev.
> >>
> >>> And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an
> >>> especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with
> >>> the facts. Just a thought.
> >
> > You know, I resent this on a personal level. You're new here, so I'll
> > explain my role. I subcontract to Runtime to work in their tech support
> > queue a couple of hours every morning. That's why I have a Runtime
> > signature under my tech support replies, and my own signature on this
> > list. I do not get paid to participate here, I do it because I love this
> > product, and because I come from a HyperCard background where the
> > community was selfless in sharing knowledge. So, as you can see, I wear
> > two hats. I do not represent Runtime officially, even though many people
> > associate me with them. What I am about to say comes from me as Jacque
> > at HyperActive Software, not as a representative of Runtime.
>
> Ok, fine so far.
>
> >
> > Now then. I spend every morning in the tech queue. If there is a
> > question in there, I answer it. We promise a 2-day response time, but it
> > is very rare that I put off a question longer than the few minutes it
> > takes me to read it. In some cases I need to get more info from a team
> > member. If that happens, it does take longer. I have never, ever ignored
> > a question. Ever. I resent you implying that I do. As a matter of fact,
> > it makes me quite angry.
> >
> > If someone does not get an answer, it is because we did not see it.
> > Period. There are a couple of reasons that can happen, and I've outlined
> > them. There was also a time a couple of years ago where Runtime did not
> > have an official support system, and mail did get lost. As soon as that
> > became apparent, they set up a formal support network that is quite
> > capable.
>
> Like you said, I'm a newbie, what do I know?
>
> >
> > I very much resent you implying that somehow I am shirking my
> > responsibility. Or that Runtime doesn't care about the customer base.
>
> You inferred that from my comments. None of it was implied.
> That onus is yours.
>
> > Or
> > that somehow, for some reason, this little company has decided to ignore
> > their customers for some unknown reason that will ultimately harm them
> > in the long run. Why in the world would they do that? Don't you think
> > they want to succeed?
>
> Where have I stated that?
> Besides, 'financial difficulties' is a possibility here.
>
> >
> > Please note once again that I am posting this as myself, without
> > authorization from Runtime, and representing only my own human point of
> > view. But I *do* work for them every morning and I never neglect
> > anything that shows up in my queue. And while you can criticize Runtime
> > all you want, I think you owe me an apology.
>
> Why, because I'm a newbie and didn't know what your position was? Sure,
> here, have an apology.
>
> >
> > Ask anyone here what I have contributed to this community and then tell
> > me I don't care.
> >
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luis.
>
>
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Re: More on php and Rev cgi

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Jacqueline,

Arrays are very usefull/powerfull and not too difficult to  
investigate under PHP. PHP => 4.3 and PHP 5 are both working friendly  
with Rev. Have Fun ;-)


Kind Regards,

Pierre

Le 7 nov. 06 à 18:04, J. Landman Gay a écrit :


Pierre Sahores wrote:
> Hi Jacque,
>
> If you can send me both the php and cgi components of the stuff  
to get

> up together, il will try to do them good friends ;-)

That's a lovely idiom -- and you are kind as always. But we've had  
success! It now works. The problem was simple, as it turns out. The  
php developer didn't realize that the return values would be coming  
back as an array, so to him they appeared empty. It was the hint  
from John Craig that tipped us off, and when the php programmer  
adjusted his script to read an array he could see the values. So it  
works, and once again this list has proven to be the very best  
resource in the world.


Thanks for your offfer, Pierre. The next time we get stuck I may  
write to you. :)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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--
Pierre Sahores
www.sahores-conseil.com


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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[FlexibleLearning]

> And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an  
> especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with  
> the facts.
 
Luis,

Your attitude is out of order. You say you have not been a  list member so 
perhaps you have list-manners to learn. Meanwhile, beligerance is  not 
appropriate and constructive support will get you much  further.

/H
 
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Chipp Walters]

Luis,

Yes, it is obvious you are new here, otherwise you would already know who
Jacque is and exactly how MUCH she has given to this community. Besides the
best tech support responses, she has also given freely of her time helping
on numerous occasions, including organizing, preparing and documenting
online training conferences which can be found at:

http://downloads.runrev.com/section/scriptingconferences.php

-Chipp
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Luis]

J. Landman Gay wrote:

Luis wrote:

To clarify, just in case, the lower portion of my response was 
addressed to RunRev.


And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an 
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with 
the facts. Just a thought.


You know, I resent this on a personal level. You're new here, so I'll 
explain my role. I subcontract to Runtime to work in their tech support 
queue a couple of hours every morning. That's why I have a Runtime 
signature under my tech support replies, and my own signature on this 
list. I do not get paid to participate here, I do it because I love this 
product, and because I come from a HyperCard background where the 
community was selfless in sharing knowledge. So, as you can see, I wear 
two hats. I do not represent Runtime officially, even though many people 
associate me with them. What I am about to say comes from me as Jacque 
at HyperActive Software, not as a representative of Runtime.


Ok, fine so far.



Now then. I spend every morning in the tech queue. If there is a 
question in there, I answer it. We promise a 2-day response time, but it 
is very rare that I put off a question longer than the few minutes it 
takes me to read it. In some cases I need to get more info from a team 
member. If that happens, it does take longer. I have never, ever ignored 
a question. Ever. I resent you implying that I do. As a matter of fact, 
it makes me quite angry.


If someone does not get an answer, it is because we did not see it. 
Period. There are a couple of reasons that can happen, and I've outlined 
them. There was also a time a couple of years ago where Runtime did not 
have an official support system, and mail did get lost. As soon as that 
became apparent, they set up a formal support network that is quite 
capable.


Like you said, I'm a newbie, what do I know?



I very much resent you implying that somehow I am shirking my 
responsibility. Or that Runtime doesn't care about the customer base. 


You inferred that from my comments. None of it was implied.
That onus is yours.

Or 
that somehow, for some reason, this little company has decided to ignore 
their customers for some unknown reason that will ultimately harm them 
in the long run. Why in the world would they do that? Don't you think 
they want to succeed?


Where have I stated that?
Besides, 'financial difficulties' is a possibility here.



Please note once again that I am posting this as myself, without 
authorization from Runtime, and representing only my own human point of 
view. But I *do* work for them every morning and I never neglect 
anything that shows up in my queue. And while you can criticize Runtime 
all you want, I think you owe me an apology.


Why, because I'm a newbie and didn't know what your position was? Sure, 
here, have an apology.




Ask anyone here what I have contributed to this community and then tell 
me I don't care.




Cheers,

Luis.


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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Richard Gaskin]

Luis wrote in response to Jacque:

And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an 
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with 
the facts. Just a thought.

Must be Tuesday, yup.


Why must it be Tuesday?  Is that the day you set aside to be rude?

Look, I really don't care whether you like or dislike Rev, whether you
feel you can run their company better, whether you've had more
demonstrated success with your own products, or whether you're
merely a malcontent.

BUT -

I do care very much when you insult my friend.

The above is a weak and wordy way of calling Jacque a liar.

I've known Jacque for more than a decade, and I would stand by her
integrity and earnestness far more readily than I would heed the random
insults of a boor who can run the world but can't finish his own web site.

Perhaps Jacque's greatest failing is that she is far more patient with
some people than they deserve.

May I please appeal to your more refined sensibilities and ask you to
avoid insulting my friends?

Please be civil and professional, and you will meet with that in kind.

Have a better Wednesday -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: More on php and Rev cgi

[J. Landman Gay]

Pierre Sahores wrote:
> Hi Jacque,
>
> If you can send me both the php and cgi components of the stuff to get
> up together, il will try to do them good friends ;-)

That's a lovely idiom -- and you are kind as always. But we've had 
success! It now works. The problem was simple, as it turns out. The php 
developer didn't realize that the return values would be coming back as 
an array, so to him they appeared empty. It was the hint from John Craig 
that tipped us off, and when the php programmer adjusted his script to 
read an array he could see the values. So it works, and once again this 
list has proven to be the very best resource in the world.


Thanks for your offfer, Pierre. The next time we get stuck I may write 
to you. :)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Mark Smith]

I will happily attest that Jacque has never let me down. I haven't  
had all that many occasions to email support, but whenever I have  
needed to, the response has been both prompt and helpful.


I don't doubt that things sometimes go awry, but I've generally fared  
a lot better with RunRev support than I have with some much bigger  
operations.


Best,

Mark
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[J. Landman Gay]

Luis wrote:

To clarify, just in case, the lower portion of my response was addressed 
to RunRev.


And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an 
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with 
the facts. Just a thought.


You know, I resent this on a personal level. You're new here, so I'll 
explain my role. I subcontract to Runtime to work in their tech support 
queue a couple of hours every morning. That's why I have a Runtime 
signature under my tech support replies, and my own signature on this 
list. I do not get paid to participate here, I do it because I love this 
product, and because I come from a HyperCard background where the 
community was selfless in sharing knowledge. So, as you can see, I wear 
two hats. I do not represent Runtime officially, even though many people 
associate me with them. What I am about to say comes from me as Jacque 
at HyperActive Software, not as a representative of Runtime.


Now then. I spend every morning in the tech queue. If there is a 
question in there, I answer it. We promise a 2-day response time, but it 
is very rare that I put off a question longer than the few minutes it 
takes me to read it. In some cases I need to get more info from a team 
member. If that happens, it does take longer. I have never, ever ignored 
a question. Ever. I resent you implying that I do. As a matter of fact, 
it makes me quite angry.


If someone does not get an answer, it is because we did not see it. 
Period. There are a couple of reasons that can happen, and I've outlined 
them. There was also a time a couple of years ago where Runtime did not 
have an official support system, and mail did get lost. As soon as that 
became apparent, they set up a formal support network that is quite capable.


I very much resent you implying that somehow I am shirking my 
responsibility. Or that Runtime doesn't care about the customer base. Or 
that somehow, for some reason, this little company has decided to ignore 
their customers for some unknown reason that will ultimately harm them 
in the long run. Why in the world would they do that? Don't you think 
they want to succeed?


Please note once again that I am posting this as myself, without 
authorization from Runtime, and representing only my own human point of 
view. But I *do* work for them every morning and I never neglect 
anything that shows up in my queue. And while you can criticize Runtime 
all you want, I think you owe me an apology.


Ask anyone here what I have contributed to this community and then tell 
me I don't care.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Luis]

Marielle Lange wrote:
The forum frontend (http://forums.runrev.com/) is available for any 
passerby to see, and it is a very quiet place... Hence the 'sadest 
Forum I've seen' comment.


Many have used these forums to make the same comments :-).


Now now, that would rally put newbies off!



I'm evaluating several development options, some of which track 
differently because the nature of some projects doesn't require full 
blown coding which is easily covered by other apps. Other projects do 
have that requirement, and I'm looking at least cost (both in software 
and development time) and then plough through with whatever options I 
have chosen.


Then your "fishing" for information/causing reaction behaviour makes 
sense. The different areas you poked are indeed important ones to 
consider when evaluating a technology to use in future projects (to 
depend on for possibly years to come).


It may seem deliberate, but the appearance of 'provocation' is a 
by-broduct of the questioning.




As you are probably well aware of, the tricky question to answer with 
revolution is to guess where the product would be in 3-5 years time. 
Sure it is relatively easy to learn and rapid to program... but it also 
tend to isolate you, getting you loose your flexibility. Reduced costs 
now and possibly huge cost if you need to change your approach later on. 
Similarly, without a good components approach, you could get stuff out 
rapidly... but the cost of getting something out will remain about the 
same over the years. With a components approach, you pay a higher cost 
early on... but the cost progressively decreases.


Dev environments can take a sharp turn just round the corner, new 
technologies may render current stuff useless a few months down the 
line. That's where the concern comes from, making sure I'm doing the 
best I can to make sure I can still produce.




There will come a point, if that environment has not evolved into what 
I reckon it should (call this bug fixes, features, take your pick) I 
will drop it. This is my personal opinion, no better or worse than 
anyone else's.


Six months ago, I expressed my concerns...

The old direction (heads, top guys) replied to these concerns in a way 
that got me to think that revolution will stay for the next 5 years at 
about at the same place it has been for the last 10 years (including the 
various precursors) and despite having had a huge head start being taken 
over by other technologies.






The new direction avoided promises and asked me to wait. Not used 
revolution for 6 months Learned other technologies, other 
frameworks. I am now in the process of evaluating it again.


That's where I'm at too, although I had not been a list member before.



Nothing wrong with the questions you try to answer The problem is 
that I cannot answer your questions today... I have some elements but 
that I sworn to keep private. There are other answers I simply don't 
have. That's the same for most persons on this list.


If you have some serious business project in mind and a few features are 
essential to your projects, why not contact revolution's management 
directly and ask them whether there is any chance to have these features 
implemented within 1-5 years?


The words 'blood' and 'stone' come to mind... And following on from your 
comments above I doubt it would be productive.


Cheers,

Luis.




Marielle


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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Marielle Lange]

The forum frontend (http://forums.runrev.com/) is available for any  
passerby to see, and it is a very quiet place... Hence the 'sadest  
Forum I've seen' comment.


Many have used these forums to make the same comments :-).

I'm evaluating several development options, some of which track  
differently because the nature of some projects doesn't require  
full blown coding which is easily covered by other apps. Other  
projects do have that requirement, and I'm looking at least cost  
(both in software and development time) and then plough through  
with whatever options I have chosen.


Then your "fishing" for information/causing reaction behaviour makes  
sense. The different areas you poked are indeed important ones to  
consider when evaluating a technology to use in future projects (to  
depend on for possibly years to come).


As you are probably well aware of, the tricky question to answer with  
revolution is to guess where the product would be in 3-5 years time.  
Sure it is relatively easy to learn and rapid to program... but it  
also tend to isolate you, getting you loose your flexibility. Reduced  
costs now and possibly huge cost if you need to change your approach  
later on. Similarly, without a good components approach, you could  
get stuff out rapidly... but the cost of getting something out will  
remain about the same over the years. With a components approach, you  
pay a higher cost early on... but the cost progressively decreases.


There will come a point, if that environment has not evolved into  
what I reckon it should (call this bug fixes, features, take your  
pick) I will drop it. This is my personal opinion, no better or  
worse than anyone else's.


Six months ago, I expressed my concerns...

The old direction (heads, top guys) replied to these concerns in a  
way that got me to think that revolution will stay for the next 5  
years at about at the same place it has been for the last 10 years  
(including the various precursors) and despite having had a huge head  
start being taken over by other technologies.


The new direction avoided promises and asked me to wait. Not used  
revolution for 6 months Learned other technologies, other  
frameworks. I am now in the process of evaluating it again.


Nothing wrong with the questions you try to answer The problem is  
that I cannot answer your questions today... I have some elements but  
that I sworn to keep private. There are other answers I simply don't  
have. That's the same for most persons on this list.


If you have some serious business project in mind and a few features  
are essential to your projects, why not contact revolution's  
management directly and ask them whether there is any chance to have  
these features implemented within 1-5 years?


Marielle


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Rev_rant

[Luis]

Hiya,

I was going to post this in a reply, but thought it might be better on 
its own.




If I perceive a failing in an environment, I will state it, whether or 
not I decide to utilise that environment in my projects.
There will come a point, if that environment has not evolved into what I 
reckon it should (call this bug fixes, features, take your pick) I will 
drop it. This is my personal opinion, no better or worse than anyone else's.
The fact that others have become more vocal is perhaps an indicator of 
frustration, realising they are not alone, want to inject some life back 
into their favourite dev environment, whatever.


I wonder if the current issues with delayed bug fixes is indicating some 
sort of developer drop out, resulting in lower sales, therefore lower 
Rev resources.


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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Luis]

Marielle Lange wrote:
And that Forum... That's got to be the sadest Forum I've ever seen. 
Any newbie hitting that would surely be put off.

[...]

Didn't see that one. And I can't, not a member of the forum...


Uh? What is your first comment based on if you never had a chance to see 
these forums?


The forum posting you referred to requires membership of the forum. I am 
not a member of the forum, therefore I cannot see the posting.
The forum frontend (http://forums.runrev.com/) is available for any 
passerby to see, and it is a very quiet place... Hence the 'sadest Forum 
I've seen' comment.




Based on what you said over the last days, I wonder if you would not 
find processing better suiting your needs than revolution 



Been there some time ago.



1. Open source


Open source is a non-issue for me (the back end is Java, I'm not sure 
'open source' really applies here).



2. You code one and can generate an application or run within a browser


Yup, seen that, and some really nifty apps out there.

3. Now, you can also, with the same code, generate a version that runs 
on mobile devices 


Been there.

4. You have various libraries that let you manipulate 3D objects 
(openGL) - 


Yep, and they've recently introduced some additional vector stuff too.



Marielle


I'm evaluating several development options, some of which track 
differently because the nature of some projects doesn't require full 
blown coding which is easily covered by other apps. Other projects do 
have that requirement, and I'm looking at least cost (both in software 
and development time) and then plough through with whatever options I 
have chosen.


Cheers,

Luis.







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Re: Go Next Card Sluggish in2.7.4?

[Bill Marriott]

Siv'swami,

I wonder if you could quantify the difference for us... something like

put the list of numbers 1 to the number of cards into cardList
shuffle up cardList
put the ticks into startTime
repeat for each line thatCard in cardList
  go card thatCard
end repeat
put the ticks into endTime
put endTime - startTime

and similarly

put the ticks into startTime
repeat for i = 1 to the number of cards
  go next card
end repeat
put the ticks into endTime
put endTime - startTime

in both the 2.7.4 and 2.6.1 versions?


Sivakatirswami wrote
> But under 2.7.4  a button
>
> On mouseup
>  go next card
> end mouseup
>
> throws a busy icon, after a bit of time, the next card is presented.
>  I have arrows set to navigate... if I hit the right arrow, or cmd-3 in 
> the
> IDE I get the same sluggishness.
>
> Is this symptomatic of the 2.7.4 "cumbersome IDE" that some have
> complained about? I'm not trapping the go next card msg
> and no other handlers are being triggered...



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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Marielle Lange]

And that Forum... That's got to be the sadest Forum I've ever seen.  
Any newbie hitting that would surely be put off.

[...]

Didn't see that one. And I can't, not a member of the forum...


Uh? What is your first comment based on if you never had a chance to  
see these forums?


Based on what you said over the last days, I wonder if you would not  
find processing better suiting your needs than revolution processing.org/>


1. Open source
2. You code one and can generate an application or run within a browser
3. Now, you can also, with the same code, generate a version that  
runs on mobile devices 
4. You have various libraries that let you manipulate 3D objects  
(openGL) - 


Marielle




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Re: HTTPProxy

[Dave Cragg]

On 7 Nov 2006, at 11:41, Mark Schonewille wrote:


Goeiemiddag Henk,

In your example, you use port 8080 but in your log I see port 80.  
Which one is correct? Maybe you need to include a user name and  
password.


If it should be 8080, I'd check the httpProxy setting again. Make  
sure you haven't typed an extra character at the end or an upper case  
"o" instead of zero. The setting should be:


  set the httpProxy to "isafirewall.domain.nl:8080"

But the following would produce the result you see:

  set the httpProxy to "isafirewall.domain.nl:8080:"
  set the httpProxy to "isafirewall.domain.nl:808O" ##uppercase "o"

If that was a typo in the mail, and the port is correct, the log data  
looks generally OK except that the headers should be on separate  
lines like this:


GET http://www.mediamaatje.nl:80/Download/ HTTP/1.1
Host: www.mediamaatje.nl
User-Agent: Revolution (Win32)

But I'm assuming that happened between the log field and the e-mail,  
otherwise all http requests would be failing.


If you are sure the proxy setting is correct, what do you get in "the  
result" after you make the call?


For example:

 set the httpProxy to "isafirewall.domain.nl:8080"
 put url "http://www.mediamaatje.nl/Download"; into tData
 put the result into tRes
 if tRes is not empty then
  answer tRes
 end if

Cheers
Dave
 
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser(was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[jbv]

Marielle Lange a *crit :

> > Then I want to be paid for Marketing. :)
>
> Believe it or not but they seem interested in doing just that:
>
> Become a Revolution Community Partner
> 
> $$$. We have a compensation model based on sales that result from
> your efforts. You will get assigned a special code with each event,
> then receive compensation based on sales that result from your efforts.

then why not start something similar for developpers who would enhance
the engine with new functions ?

JB
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Re: HTTPProxy

[Mark Schonewille]

Goeiemiddag Henk,

In your example, you use port 8080 but in your log I see port 80.  
Which one is correct? Maybe you need to include a user name and  
password.


Although I don't expect this to be the case, it is possible that the  
firewall or the proxy checks for the browser name, which is  
Revolution. Setting the httpHeaders to a known browser name might help.


You haven't included the script that sets your proxy, so I can't  
check that.


How did you create the log? What do you see if you connect with a  
regular browser?


The address after the GET command does not include a file. It just  
refers to a directory. You might want to point to an existing file  
for testing, to make sure that the server should return something.


Since your client seems to work with Windows, s/he may have set up  
the windows proxy settings already. If s/he did this correctly, set  
the httpProxy to empty. Revolution should use the default settings  
according to the docs (only on PC, not on Mac). If not, either the  
proxy was not set up property on that particular PC or you have found  
a bug in Revolution.


Best,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 7-nov-2006, om 12:04 heeft Henk van der Velden het volgende  
geschreven:



Good day,

One of my applications downloads some stuff from a website. It all  
works OK, except that some of the users are behind a corporate  
firewall, and they can't connect to the website.


I've studied the mail archives and found some stuff about setting  
HTTPProxy manually to the IP of the proxy server.
So I made a field where the IP of the proxy server could be  
entered. In this case it is something like "isafirewall.domain.nl: 
8080". But this didn't help.


Next I tried to log the download proces.
I get reports like this:
socket selected: 10.1.1.10:80|6925
CLOSED 10.1.1.10:80|6924
CLOSED 10.1.1.10:80|6924
GET http://www.mediamaatje.nl:80/Download/ HTTP/1.1 Host:  
www.mediamaatje.nl User-Agent: Revolution (Win32)


I must admit that I am not an expert in network matters. So could  
anyone perhaps give me a clue as to what I can do in this situation?



Kind regards,

Henk



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HTTPProxy

[Henk van der Velden]

Good day,

One of my applications downloads some stuff from a website. It all  
works OK, except that some of the users are behind a corporate  
firewall, and they can't connect to the website.


I've studied the mail archives and found some stuff about setting  
HTTPProxy manually to the IP of the proxy server.
So I made a field where the IP of the proxy server could be entered.  
In this case it is something like "isafirewall.domain.nl:8080". But  
this didn't help.


Next I tried to log the download proces.
I get reports like this:
socket selected: 10.1.1.10:80|6925
CLOSED 10.1.1.10:80|6924
CLOSED 10.1.1.10:80|6924
GET http://www.mediamaatje.nl:80/Download/ HTTP/1.1 Host:  
www.mediamaatje.nl User-Agent: Revolution (Win32)


I must admit that I am not an expert in network matters. So could  
anyone perhaps give me a clue as to what I can do in this situation?



Kind regards,

Henk
--
Henk v.d. Velden
iGlow Media
Magda Janssenslaan 36
3584 GR  UTRECHT
Netherlands

0031 (0)6 16 024 337
www.iglow-media.nl



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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Luis]

Hiya,

Marielle Lange wrote:

Hi Luis,

No really, if it needed this level of forum debate, they had not been 
listening before.


We had that discussion 6 months ago, making many of the points you make 
in this email. Discussing them at full length. Over the last 6 months, 
various changes have taken place, with among other thing, a wiki. 
.


For now, it looks like they use it as another webpage, not as a space 
where community members can contribute. Though they mention 
"[developers] can contribute to the Revolution wiki to share 
information, tutorials, tips and projects, and log in to the forum for 
friendly help and advice."... I couldn't figure out what I needed to do 
to contribute. No register button, no "how to join" information.


Yeah, saw that before, not really a Developer Wiki as you imply.
And that Forum... That's got to be the sadest Forum I've ever seen. Any 
newbie hitting that would surely be put off.





we can help the revolution experience and attract new users to the 
revolution, then, I am sure RunRev will make more money and be able 
to afford more people and then have more resources to add the 
features you want and fix bugs.


Then I want to be paid for Marketing. :)


Believe it or not but they seem interested in doing just that:

Become a Revolution Community Partner

$$$. We have a compensation model based on sales that result from your 
efforts. You will get assigned a special code with each event, then 
receive compensation based on sales that result from your efforts.


Didn't see that one. And I can't, not a member of the forum...

Cheers,

Luis.




Marielle

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Position of tabs in tabbed button

[Martin Blackman]

List users,

Is there any way one can change the 'alignment' of tabs in a tabbed button ?

By default they are at the left, I'd like to try them on the right
hand side to make a GUI of mine more compact.

regards
Martin
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Luis,

No really, if it needed this level of forum debate, they had not  
been listening before.


We had that discussion 6 months ago, making many of the points you  
make in this email. Discussing them at full length. Over the last 6  
months, various changes have taken place, with among other thing, a  
wiki. .


For now, it looks like they use it as another webpage, not as a space  
where community members can contribute. Though they mention  
"[developers] can contribute to the Revolution wiki to share  
information, tutorials, tips and projects, and log in to the forum  
for friendly help and advice."... I couldn't figure out what I needed  
to do to contribute. No register button, no "how to join" information.



we can help the revolution experience and attract new users to the  
revolution, then, I am sure RunRev will make more money and be  
able to afford more people and then have more resources to add the  
features you want and fix bugs.


Then I want to be paid for Marketing. :)


Believe it or not but they seem interested in doing just that:

Become a Revolution Community Partner

$$$. We have a compensation model based on sales that result from  
your efforts. You will get assigned a special code with each event,  
then receive compensation based on sales that result from your efforts.


Marielle

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Go Next Card Sluggish in2.7.4?

[Sivakatirswami]

I have a little dBase in a stack with about 900 cards, each card has 40 
fields.
one field in the cards has a fair bit of text data. Still stack file 
size on disk is only 5.8 megs

Not really that big. I've got plenty of RAM and plenty disk space.
I've put together stacks that run to 15 megabytes in size and
under previous versions they ran very fast.

But under 2.7.4  a button

On mouseup
 go next card
end mouseup

throws a busy icon, after a bit of time, the next card is presented.
 I have arrows set to navigate... if I hit the right arrow, or cmd-3 in the
IDE I get the same sluggishness.

Is this symptomatic of the 2.7.4 "cumbersome IDE" that some have
complained about? I'm not trapping the go next card msg
and no other handlers are being triggered...

Sivakatirswami
www.himalayanacademy.com

Get Hinduism Today Digital Edition. It's Free!
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/digital/
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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Luis]

Luis wrote:

Hershel Fisch wrote:



I've heard the same excuse many times 'it's not us'...
Whilst it is possible, the fact that you maintained communications, 
albeit delayed (whilst, I assume, you made no changes regarding black 
lists) indicates that this issue was not related to your lack of 
'responses'. Again, it's just an assumption. I have dealt with these 
issues many times, and I'd say about 1percent of them are related to 
black lists.


To clarify, just in case, the lower portion of my response was addressed 
to RunRev.


And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an 
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with 
the facts. Just a thought.

Must be Tuesday, yup.

Cheers,

Luis.


Definitely, Tuesday.

Cheers,

Luis.





Just to clarify, for those who are new: All support questions are
answered. There are no exceptions. We never allow a question to languish
and die. Ever. No exceptions.

There are, however, instances where we do not receive your question.
This may be what happened. One reason might be that your question has
triggered a spam filter and was deleted before it got to the queue. This
is rare, but I think it does occasionally happen.

The second, much more common reason, is that the original ticket was a
bug report or some other topic that gets shuttled to a non-support
queue. We respond to the original ticket, and then move it into a
special bug report or other related queue. Once it gets there, it is no
longer displayed where we can see it. Someone enters the bug report into
Bugzilla as a courtesy to the original poster and the support ticket is
closed. If the customer then sends a reply to that ticket, we will never
see it. It gets shuttled to a closed queue that the support people don't
read. The next time someone goes through the closed queue, they will
move the response to the open queue if they notice that it is a new
response, but that is an easy thing to miss, and it can take many days
before the ticket comes to our attention.

Also, if I recall, Hershel's early questions originally came in before
we had finished implementing our current ticket system. Before this was
set up, messages did sometimes get lost. The erratic nature of the old
system was one of the main reasons Runtime switched to the one we use
now, which is much more reliable.

So I can't stress enough: if  you do not receive a reply from tech
support, we didn't get your note. There are no exceptions. We will
always answer, even if it is just to say "I need to find out the
answer." If you have waited more than 2 or 3 business days, then start a
*new* request. All new tickets go into a sorting area, where someone
will assign it to the correct person. We are guaranteed to receive 
these.


Of course, please do not mention any body parts or drug names in the
subject of your email. Those won't make it through to us. ;)


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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Luis]

Hershel Fisch wrote:

On 11/3/06 12:31 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Luis wrote:

Hershel Fisch wrote:

And when I bought my copy in the beginning and paid for support and
didn't
any answers only after resending my questions several times and waiting a
week or two and a few times didn't receive any respond at all I don't
that¹s
any better.

That's bad!! Did they provide appropriate answers to your queries?

Repeatedly. I personally answered dozens of support questions from
Hershel. I have just done a search of the support database and I see
Heather answered many others too.


 Many questions where answered after a few requests and 2-3 weeks time.
I even had a whole discussion via email with Dar Scott, regarding this
matter.
But not to flair up the situation I'll except the reason that many questions
did get lost as you state below.


I've heard the same excuse many times 'it's not us'...
Whilst it is possible, the fact that you maintained communications, 
albeit delayed (whilst, I assume, you made no changes regarding black 
lists) indicates that this issue was not related to your lack of 
'responses'. Again, it's just an assumption. I have dealt with these 
issues many times, and I'd say about 1percent of them are related to 
black lists.
And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an 
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming with 
the facts. Just a thought.

Must be Tuesday, yup.

Cheers,

Luis.





Just to clarify, for those who are new: All support questions are
answered. There are no exceptions. We never allow a question to languish
and die. Ever. No exceptions.

There are, however, instances where we do not receive your question.
This may be what happened. One reason might be that your question has
triggered a spam filter and was deleted before it got to the queue. This
is rare, but I think it does occasionally happen.

The second, much more common reason, is that the original ticket was a
bug report or some other topic that gets shuttled to a non-support
queue. We respond to the original ticket, and then move it into a
special bug report or other related queue. Once it gets there, it is no
longer displayed where we can see it. Someone enters the bug report into
Bugzilla as a courtesy to the original poster and the support ticket is
closed. If the customer then sends a reply to that ticket, we will never
see it. It gets shuttled to a closed queue that the support people don't
read. The next time someone goes through the closed queue, they will
move the response to the open queue if they notice that it is a new
response, but that is an easy thing to miss, and it can take many days
before the ticket comes to our attention.

Also, if I recall, Hershel's early questions originally came in before
we had finished implementing our current ticket system. Before this was
set up, messages did sometimes get lost. The erratic nature of the old
system was one of the main reasons Runtime switched to the one we use
now, which is much more reliable.

So I can't stress enough: if  you do not receive a reply from tech
support, we didn't get your note. There are no exceptions. We will
always answer, even if it is just to say "I need to find out the
answer." If you have waited more than 2 or 3 business days, then start a
*new* request. All new tickets go into a sorting area, where someone
will assign it to the correct person. We are guaranteed to receive these.

Of course, please do not mention any body parts or drug names in the
subject of your email. Those won't make it through to us. ;)


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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Luis]

Andre Garzia wrote:

jbv,

I think you're being kinda naive, first there's no linux company making 
big bucks by distributing free linux, if you're talking about Red Hat 
and friends, they are selling premium support at a very company-wise 
rate, and thats how they make money. They are selling service. That does 
not fit a programming language company. People here keep telling RunRev 
to go open source and stuff, how is RunRev as an open source company 
will provide money for Kevin and the others to make a living?


Whatever business model they choose would be based on whatever business 
requirements they decide to follow, whether that is open source or not, 
and that would need to factor in information which we as users are not 
privy to (nor do we need to know either).


Personally, I don't think RunRev needs to go open source, I think it 
needs to be more 'open'.
The externals programming is an example where this would be of great 
benefit to the community.




I deeply agree with you that we need a better foreign interface kit so 
that interfacing with existing technology such as opengl can be easily 
(but laboriously) done by a skilled person, the current external 
architecture is simply not good enough for the developer. We're waiting 
for many bug fixes, yes, but RunRev is not stalled, they are fixing 
bugs, they are not fixing them in a rate we like, but they will never be 
able to fix them in a rate that pleases us, we'll always want it faster.


Having paid for the product entitles us to expect full functionality: 
When this is not so we are perfectly within our rights to complain 'till 
we're blue in the face.
If the car you bought veers to the left but can be fixed by keeping the 
drivers door fully open: Do you carry on driving with a workaround (oh, 
I dunno, elastic bands and string...)? Or do you complain to the 
manufacturer to get it sorted? Or, do you switch manufacturer?


I don't know if anything will ever be bug free (funny how some bugs are 
'fixed' (read 'ignored') by feature releases...) but you should be able 
to reach your destination without causing a pile up along the way.




I think that instead of suggesting new business models that do not apply 
to the small scottish developer company, this discussion would benefit


Sorry, I don't see why being small or Scottish has anything to do with 
this. They started this, I expect they hoped to finish it with the 
resources available to them. They invested in a massive tech purchase.
A statement like that almost justifies them over-reaching themselves, 
but surely that would not benefit them or their customer base.
Whatever decisions they took should not have diminished their ability to 
deliver a full and well rounded product.


from taking a radical change, what can the community do for RunRev to 
make it's experience better. Why we don't post tutorial stacks more


Their videos break the ice nicely, and additional community led docs 
would be a great boon to uptake. Sounds like a job for a Wiki.


often, why don't take 10 minutes per day to answer newbies in foruns and 
lists, why not writing articles for your local IT magazine or site... If


Wouldn't answering newbies be their job? The more involved the company 
is on grass roots forums the better, not just for newbie/user perception 
but also to get a feel for user issues, which I think is what they've 
picked up on, hence the start of this thread. Pity that the party 
started with such a commotion, but at least it got us noticed. And if 
they're worried/scared about all this, good.
No really, if it needed this level of forum debate, they had not been 
listening before.


The IT magazine articles is an excellent idea on many fronts.

we can help the revolution experience and attract new users to the 
revolution, then, I am sure RunRev will make more money and be able to 
afford more people and then have more resources to add the features you 
want and fix bugs.


Then I want to be paid for Marketing. :)
The onus should not be on us to promote the product. If the environment 
quirks didn't get in the way, if bugs were fixed, more products would be 
released: It would them become self promoting.


Cheers,

Luis.




we can all help and thats better than asking for impossible changes, I 
really don't want to enter the discussion of open source versus closed 
source.


andre




On Nov 6, 2006, at 3:01 PM, jbv wrote:




Viktoras and all,


What about Runtime
Revolution joining "the club"...



just for the pleasure of throwing more gasoline on a possible
flame war ;-), I must confess that I'm wondering if we all don't
get stuck in a wrong situation : waiting for RunRev to fix bugs,
waiting for RunRev to join some club to have some plugin API
developped, etc, etc.

I for one have been waiting for 3 years to have some vector
graphics implemented in Rev. As for 3D, I did build some raw
external to interface MC 2.3 with openGL (this was back in 2003
and must be burried deep in the ar