date:20080114

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> Wow, that message was a little short and a lot weird.

No problem.  Many of my posts are long and weird. ;)

> What i meant was that i think you are correct, that
> a working prototype is in order, and that it is very
> hard to fit dreams (no matter how rooted in reality)
> into day to day survival.  I would love to work with
> you on a project that really added to the future
> that never was... Will keep you posted. The most fun
> to me is framing the problem.  Course if you do this
> well the rest falls into place almost magically.

I must not be doing that part well, since I can frame problems much 
faster than I can build solutions. :)

But do let us know how it goes.  I've read some of the stuff at your 
site, and look forward to seeing what you come up with on this.

> The tent comment referenced your assides to backpacks
> and the desert.

I do use a tent. A lot of my friends tell me that if I'm going to carry 
all that water I should go ultra-light on my other gear and switch to a 
tarp.  I try tp watch my gear weight in general, but the desert becomes 
most alive at night while I'm asleep and I prefer that things that crawl 
and slither not seek my bag for warmth, so I carry a tent.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

2008-01-14 Thread Gregory Lypny


Hello everyone,

Having started this thread, perhaps I can throw in that the question  
for me has always been a practical one.  If I need to work with and  
analyze the data in many records and the characteristics of those  
subsets most of the time (How many in total?, How many are red?, What  
is the median?), then I build something with a list-like or array-like  
structure because an individual record or card isn't really relevant;  
it's the ability to gather them quickly into groups and characterize  
the group.  That's why when I built a program in MetaCard a few years  
ago to index the human genome database (Unigene) and extract subsets  
of the 100,000 plus entries, cards never entered the picture.   
Likewise, when I did the same with 127,000 news releases made by  
Canada NewsWire and associated the words in the headlines with some  
360,000 entries in Webster's Dictionary and the 3,600 firms trading on  
the S&P/TSX.  But when I mostly need to find and study the details of  
an individual record, then the card model is a good one.  However, I'm  
finding that my need to look at individual details is now almost  
always accompanied by a need to aggregate and study groups of records,  
and for databases of, say, 100 records or more, I have to maintain a  
series of lists anyway.


Regards,

Gregory
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Re: Rev cgi search question

2008-01-14 Thread Kee Nethery


We do stuff like this all the time. caching data locally.

The deal is we store last datetime changed for each row in each table  
in our database. Every time the row gets changed the datetime gets  
updated.


The various systems that use the data search the local data cache,  
not the external database.


Before doing the search we do an update to the cache and to do that  
we keep track of the lastdatetime when the database was looked at and  
we look for any rows that have changed since then. If the result set  
is zero, then the cached data gets used as is and the lastdatetime  
gets incremented in the cache.


If the resultset is not zero, we grab the changes, and incorporate  
them into the data set and then update the cache date.


Then once the cache is updated, we do the search.

If the cache is empty, or the last cache check date is empty, we do a  
complete pull from the database.


Kee


On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Richard Miller wrote:


I'm looking for suggestions on how to accomplish the following.

1. User starts a search of my text-based database (via browser and  
Rev cgi).
2. My app finds the results (which are a series of line numbers...  
possibly as many as 1000)
3. I now want to store those results so that when the user brings  
up a data page resulting from the search, they can go back to the  
results (presumably to go to another data page from the results)  
without having to re-do the search or use the back-button on their  
browser. I know how to store the results within a link (i.e. http:// 
www.results.com?results=1,2,3..."), and I'm using this in various  
places already. But this won't work for me in all cases.


I'm guessing one solution might be to issue a temporary id number  
and connect that to a given users search process. The results could  
then be stored in a file on the server under this ID, with this  
page liquidated after some period of time (30 minutes? 60  
minutes?). Would this work or is there a better way to handle this.


Thanks.
Richard Miller
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-
I check email roughly 2 to 3 times per business day.
Kagi main office: +1 (510) 550-1336


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RE: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Wow, that message was a little short and a lot weird.  What i meant was that i 
think you are correct, that a working prototype is in order, and that it is 
very hard to fit dreams (no matter how rooted in reality) into day to day 
survival.  I would love to work with you on a project that really added to the 
future that never was... Will keep you posted. The most fun to me is framing 
the problem.  Course if you do this well the rest falls into place almost 
magically.  The tent comment referenced your assides to backpacks and the 
desert.  
randall
-Original Message-
From: "Randall Lee Reetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 1/14/2008 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Even as a reality freak, there are times when i really hate reality.  Are you 
in a tent?

-Original Message-
From: "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 1/14/2008 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> Richard wrote:
>> Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> Who will do it first?
>>
>> Looks like the field's wide open for you.
>
> Me and you?

While I'm flattered at the suggestion and would enjoy breaking new
ground, the areas in which I'm pursuing innovation are far smaller in
scope, specific to a few client projects.  Those projects keep me so
busy it's hard enough to get out to the desert as often as I'd like, so
it would be imprudent of me to take on anything else right now that
might get between me and by backpack.

But on something this visionary it may best to have a v1.0 or even a 
functional prototype as a solo effort.  Then once it's a concrete form 
it should be much easier to attract others who can help take it further.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
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RE: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Even as a reality freak, there are times when i really hate reality.  Are you 
in a tent?

-Original Message-
From: "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 1/14/2008 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> Richard wrote:
>> Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> Who will do it first?
>>
>> Looks like the field's wide open for you.
>
> Me and you?

While I'm flattered at the suggestion and would enjoy breaking new
ground, the areas in which I'm pursuing innovation are far smaller in
scope, specific to a few client projects.  Those projects keep me so
busy it's hard enough to get out to the desert as often as I'd like, so
it would be imprudent of me to take on anything else right now that
might get between me and by backpack.

But on something this visionary it may best to have a v1.0 or even a 
functional prototype as a solo effort.  Then once it's a concrete form 
it should be much easier to attract others who can help take it further.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  ___
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com

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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field


Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

Richard wrote:

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

Who will do it first?


Looks like the field's wide open for you.


Me and you?


While I'm flattered at the suggestion and would enjoy breaking new
ground, the areas in which I'm pursuing innovation are far smaller in
scope, specific to a few client projects.  Those projects keep me so
busy it's hard enough to get out to the desert as often as I'd like, so
it would be imprudent of me to take on anything else right now that
might get between me and by backpack.

But on something this visionary it may best to have a v1.0 or even a 
functional prototype as a solo effort.  Then once it's a concrete form 
it should be much easier to attract others who can help take it further.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com

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Re: Bug 3509 and an open letter to Rev

2008-01-14 Thread Ian Wood

At the risk of sounding like a Rev apologist, the bug has 0 (zero)  
votes, Rev's senior engineer responded within an hour and a half  
(including lunchtime on this side of the Atlantic) of your comment,  
and normal office hours ended only three hours later.


That said, it sounds like a REALLY irritating bug if it gets you. :-(

Ian

On 14 Jan 2008, at 21:38, Andrew Meit wrote:


Rev,
I found some-else have been having problems with edit menu-items  
becoming disabled. Its a 3 year old bug! Why would Rev allow a bug  
that blocks real full editing to fail after using Ask/answer/ask  
file/answer file remain unfixed
I have found no work arounds given at the report. Oh, I can hack a  
forced update only within the Ide, BUT for a standalone fails.


http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=3509

Shalom, Andrew

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Re: Bug 3509 and an open letter to Rev


Hi Richard,

The problem is not that the menu items are disabled while the file  
dialog is open, but after the file dialog closes.


Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

--

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Quickly extract data from your HyperCard stacks with DIFfersifier.  
http://differsifier.economy-x-talk.com



Op 14-jan-2008, om 23:22 heeft Richard Gaskin het volgende geschreven:

At first glance the current behavior appears to follow convention.  
Which edit menu items do you want enabled while a system sheet is  
up that are currently disabled?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal


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Re: Bug 3509 and an open letter to Rev


Hi Andrew,

I have attached a workaround to the bug report. You can download it  
from there.


Vrede zij met u,

Mark Schonewille

--

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Quickly extract data from your HyperCard stacks with DIFfersifier.  
http://differsifier.economy-x-talk.com



Op 14-jan-2008, om 22:38 heeft Andrew Meit het volgende geschreven:


Rev,
I found some-else have been having problems with edit menu-items  
becoming disabled. Its a 3 year old bug! Why would Rev allow a bug  
that blocks real full editing to fail after using Ask/answer/ask  
file/answer file remain unfixed
I have found no work arounds given at the report. Oh, I can hack a  
forced update only within the Ide, BUT for a standalone fails.


http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=3509

Shalom, Andrew


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Re: disabed edit menuitems [Richard]


Andrew Meit wrote:
> ahhh, its not wanting editing while ask/answer file is up, its after
> it goes away that the standard cut/copy/past/undo *remains disabled*,
> surely thats not standard. Somehow the menubar is not being updated
> correctly both within the IDE and as a standalone.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess I've only seen this with the system dialogs (e.g., "answer 
file...") since I'm using MC's ask and answer dialogs, which don't do 
anything to menus at all.


--
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 Managing Editor, revJournal
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RE: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Me and you?

-Original Message-
From: "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 1/14/2008 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> Who will do it first?

Looks like the field's wide open for you.

-- 
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  Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: disabed edit menuitems [Richard]

2008-01-14 Thread Andrew Meit

ahhh, its not wanting editing while ask/answer file is up, its after  
it goes away that the standard cut/copy/past/undo *remains disabled*,  
surely thats not standard. Somehow the menubar is not being updated  
correctly both within the IDE and as a standalone.


Shalom, Andrew

On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



At first glance the current behavior appears to follow convention.
Which edit menu items do you want enabled while a system sheet is up
that are currently disabled?


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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field


Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

Who will do it first?


Looks like the field's wide open for you.

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 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Duplicate Problem

2008-01-14 Thread Andres Martinez


Thanks Jerry

I also registered by sending the same question to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I deinstalled GLX2 and was able to get both projects from the  
"archive" folder.


The problem should be related with GLX2 because I never opened both  
projects at the same time.


But I agree with you... assuming this is a GLX2 issue, I will continue  
the communication with your support team, not on this list.


Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:17 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:


Andres,

Assuming this is a problem with GLX2, it would be very helpful to  
GLX2 users to post your questions to the support site so we can  
archive the answers there for other GLX2 users--many of whom don't  
frequent this list.


Also, only 500 or so people who own Rev also use GLX2, so I don't  
want to misuse this list with GLX2 tech support issues. If you have  
posted there and not gotten an answer, then I sincerely apologize  
for what might seem like an admonishment that is unwarranted.


Short answer: GLX2 does archive copies of your stack file in an  
"archives" folder on the same level as the stack file itself,  
provided you have the auto-archive feature turned on and the archive  
frequency is high enough to perform the archive upon which you are  
relying.


Name changing does sometimes create unanticipated situations within  
the IDE, and GLX2 tries to "sing along" as best it can, but Rev IDE  
itself has some difficulties with dupe stack names and updating its  
IDE when names of stacks or mainstacks are changed. It gets hard to  
say "who" or "what" is causing your difficultly.


In any case, I'd suggest you post any and all questions, problems  
and praise to the support site for GLX2. If you have not registered  
for support, I'd suggest you do via an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
. As a registered licensee, you are entitled to do so.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.daniels-mara.com/glx2


On Jan 14, 2008, at 2:57 PM, Andres Martinez wrote:


Hello

I am using RunRev  2.8.1 with GLX2 in Leopard.

Today I started a new project by duplicating another one that  
contained several cards, objects and scripts I wanted to reuse.


I renamed everything on this new project, but somehow I was unable  
to rename or change the "Stack Files in the Application" file to  
the new .rev file. Additionally, the usual "archive" folder created  
and managed by GLX2 is not there.


The file compiled fine but I got into a huge problem that I did not  
faced before... when I closed this new project and try to open the  
old one, everything is lost, the project opened is the new one. How  
can this be possible?


I assume that somehow GLX2 is storing the history of the new file  
on the same old "archive" folder.


How can I get back my old project? and how can I un-relate the new  
one from the old "archive" folder?


Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

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Re: Bug 3509 and an open letter to Rev


Andrew Meit wrote:
I found some-else have been having problems with edit menu-items  
becoming disabled. Its a 3 year old bug! Why would Rev allow a bug  
that blocks real full editing to fail after using Ask/answer/ask file/ 
answer file remain unfixed


At first glance the current behavior appears to follow convention. 
Which edit menu items do you want enabled while a system sheet is up 
that are currently disabled?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

Randall,

Sounds like a good project, and you have a solid understanding of the
problem. How about YOU being first to solve it?

Seriously,

On Jan 14, 2008, at 3:21 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

Jerry,

On many of your points I agree. It is possible (though definitely
not automatic) to store data external to a stack (in a text file)
and use cards as UI modes; different ways of viewing and interacting
with the raw (external) data. When HyperCard was born, data was
static or reasonably static lists of friends and family (the
personal rolodex), or limited storage of content (anatomical parts,
insect facts, gardening tips). Today, data is expected to be
dynamic... isn't trusted if it isn't. In fact, we are realizing
that local data is dead data... that the only way to expect data to
stay relevant if lots and lots of people and organizations have
access to it (as authors and editors).

The fact that you can force the xTalk card/stack metaphor fit this
new dynamic model of data doesn't really mean this force is ideal...
quite the opposite. The only real reason I can come up with when I
ask my self why I use xTalk still or why I would recommend it to
others just starting out, is that the language and creation metaphor
are so human... that and the fact that the ideal solution doesn't
exist yet. Nothing that humanizes the access, manipulation and
analysis of dynamic data yet exists. Said another way, nobody has
yet HyperCard-ed dynamic data use affordances.

What would it take to do this? What would a humanization of dynamic
data handling look like? Well, the basis of useful data is
typing... somehow divining the data storage (or live access)
organization protocol of the source and automatically setting up
reasonable affordances for presenting this data (should it be
presented as a graph or a trellis or a table or a list or a
ontological tree or a topology or a simulation or a linear story or
2 or 3D diagram...? How should the user filter the data for
relevant subsets or patterns? How should the user select
boundaries? Should the environment auto locate anomalies, averages,
patterns, symmetries, exceptions, repetitions, duplicates, periods,
growth, semantic crossovers, data type confusions, source location
or entity, acquisition method, authority, agreement, etc.? How
should linguistic or mathematic semantics be brought to bare in all
of this?

I don't know exactly what HyperCard-ing or xTalk-ing dynamic data
would look like... but I do know that RunRev and SuperCard and
HyperCard are not it. I also know that someone somewhere will offer
up a solution that is good enough and this will be the next true
revolution in user level complexity handling.

Google is in a good position to lead us into this promised land...
but I don't see them doing so fast. What they need to get better at
(I would be surprised if they weren't hard at work on this) is
client side/server side shared computing and its sundry tools.
Surely they don't want to own the mips such a scheme would require
(or do they?)! I guess we are talking about a "web 3.0" vision.
Does anyone remember the Kaleida Project (Apple, IBM, et. al.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleida_Labs?
One of there big pushes was a user level instantiation of the
model/viewer/controller development framework. What they really
didn't get (and it might have killed them) was the network or cloud
as base or source, and exactly HOW dynamic data would become because
of it. But the demos I saw at the time showed discrete interest in
making manipulation of data a live and user level process where the
experience and manipulation of data was assumed to be a dynamic
process. However, though these concepts were reafiable within the
ScriptX language, they were no more automatic than they are in your
run of the mill xTalk incarnation. ScriptX had full object
support... sat on top of a true OO method and data model. But
scripting looked more like C++ or Lingo than any natural language I
have ever spoken. Nothing I have mentioned previously that would be
required to automate dynamic data access and manipulation was
included at base architecture in the IDE.

Who will do it first?

Randall

On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

On Jan 14, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Russell Martin wrote:

if I can't realistically store large amounts of data
in stacks (and get acceptable speed), then what is the point of
using a

stack based development tool?

Russell,

This is an excellent question. The relevancy of cards (or even
stack-based data-rich lists) being used for data is the issue, I
think. The idea of local-only data is becoming anachronistic in a
world where data is more likely to be stored in "the cloud" where
it can stored and shared. I store my data in a cloud (on a server
"somewhere" identified by a URL). I just tag field and b

Re: Duplicate Problem


Andres,

Assuming this is a problem with GLX2, it would be very helpful to GLX2  
users to post your questions to the support site so we can archive the  
answers there for other GLX2 users--many of whom don't frequent this  
list.


Also, only 500 or so people who own Rev also use GLX2, so I don't want  
to misuse this list with GLX2 tech support issues. If you have posted  
there and not gotten an answer, then I sincerely apologize for what  
might seem like an admonishment that is unwarranted.


Short answer: GLX2 does archive copies of your stack file in an  
"archives" folder on the same level as the stack file itself, provided  
you have the auto-archive feature turned on and the archive frequency  
is high enough to perform the archive upon which you are relying.


Name changing does sometimes create unanticipated situations within  
the IDE, and GLX2 tries to "sing along" as best it can, but Rev IDE  
itself has some difficulties with dupe stack names and updating its  
IDE when names of stacks or mainstacks are changed. It gets hard to  
say "who" or "what" is causing your difficultly.


In any case, I'd suggest you post any and all questions, problems and  
praise to the support site for GLX2. If you have not registered for  
support, I'd suggest you do via an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
. As a registered licensee, you are entitled to do so.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.daniels-mara.com/glx2


On Jan 14, 2008, at 2:57 PM, Andres Martinez wrote:


Hello

I am using RunRev  2.8.1 with GLX2 in Leopard.

Today I started a new project by duplicating another one that  
contained several cards, objects and scripts I wanted to reuse.


I renamed everything on this new project, but somehow I was unable  
to rename or change the "Stack Files in the Application" file to the  
new .rev file. Additionally, the usual "archive" folder created and  
managed by GLX2 is not there.


The file compiled fine but I got into a huge problem that I did not  
faced before... when I closed this new project and try to open the  
old one, everything is lost, the project opened is the new one. How  
can this be possible?


I assume that somehow GLX2 is storing the history of the new file on  
the same old "archive" folder.


How can I get back my old project? and how can I un-relate the new  
one from the old "archive" folder?


Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?


Sakari,

If you want to change the cursor anytime a modifier key is depressed  
on both Windows and Mac, then I believe you will have to use either a  
polling method (send in time), idle message or mouseWithin--none of  
which are very processor friendly and can interfere with other things  
like clicking links.


HOWEVER...if you are developing for Windows only, then you are in  
luck. ANYTIME you depress a mod key, the rawKeydown message is sent.  
This may also be so for Linux, but I have not tested that.


I would dearly love to have the ability to check mod keys anytime via  
rawkeydown message on Mac as well, but, at least in my tests over the  
years, this is not yet possible. As anyone who has developed a  
standalone application knows, there is an "event loop" that spawns  
things like the idle message and mousewithin message that Rev has. I  
am baffled why it is so hard to send a message anytime any key is  
depressed from within the Revolution engine. How could the Mac OS  
forbid such a thing. It never used to when I worked on apps in C and  
Pascal on Mac OS 7.


We check mod keys for no-click inspection in GLX2, so I think I  
understand the exercise. We need to know mod key states even if the  
mouse is not within rect of the stack as well. So we check the mod key  
states while the mouse is moving and then send a series of "staggered"  
messages every 350 millisecs after the mouse stops moving to catch  
modifier key states outside of the stack window, etc. This taxes our  
processor time very, very little and provides almost zero interference  
with the IDE's other tasks, fortunately. But it is certainly not ideal  
as the staggered messages die out after a few seconds.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.daniels-mara.com/glx2



On Jan 14, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:


--- Sakari Ruoho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello folks,

Was wondering how to change the mouse cursor
behavior, when user
presses either ctrl or shift key? Like in photoshop
with select tool
where u can add to selection by pressing shift and
remove from
selection by pressing ctrl? If anyone has
implemented anything like
this, any help would be appreaciated. Thank you!

Sakari Ruoho



Hi Sakari,

Others already suggested trapping the 'mouseWithin'
message, or polling every 100 milliseconds using a
'send in time' construct; here's a different approach:

##

local sKeysDown

on rawKeyDown pKey
 if the keysDown is not sKeysDown then RefreshCursor
 pass rawKeyDown
end rawKeyDown

on rawKeyUp pKey
 if the keysDown is not sKeysDown then RefreshCursor
 pass rawKeyUp
end rawKeyUp

on RefreshCursor
 put the keysDown into sKeysDown
 if the controlKey is down then
   set the defaultCursor to hand
 else
   set the defaultCursor to arrow
 end if
end RefreshCursor

##

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution


=
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time."  (La Rochefoucauld)



  


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Bug 3509 and an open letter to Rev

2008-01-14 Thread Andrew Meit


Rev,
I found some-else have been having problems with edit menu-items  
becoming disabled. Its a 3 year old bug! Why would Rev allow a bug  
that blocks real full editing to fail after using Ask/answer/ask file/ 
answer file remain unfixed
I have found no work arounds given at the report. Oh, I can hack a  
forced update only within the Ide, BUT for a standalone fails.


http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=3509

Shalom, Andrew

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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field


Jerry,

On many of your points I agree.  It is possible (though definitely  
not automatic) to store data external to a stack (in a text file) and  
use cards as UI modes; different ways of viewing and interacting with  
the raw (external) data.  When HyperCard was born, data was static or  
reasonably static lists of friends and family (the personal rolodex),  
or limited storage of content (anatomical parts, insect facts,  
gardening tips).  Today, data is expected to be dynamic... isn't  
trusted if it isn't.  In fact, we are realizing that local data is  
dead data... that the only way to expect data to stay relevant if  
lots and lots of people and organizations have access to it (as  
authors and editors).


The fact that you can force the xTalk card/stack metaphor fit this  
new dynamic model of data doesn't really mean this force is ideal...  
quite the opposite.  The only real reason I can come up with when I  
ask my self why I use xTalk still or why I would recommend it to  
others just starting out, is that the language and creation metaphor  
are so human... that and the fact that the ideal solution doesn't  
exist yet.  Nothing that humanizes the access, manipulation and  
analysis of dynamic data yet exists.  Said another way, nobody has  
yet HyperCard-ed dynamic data use affordances.


What would it take to do this?  What would a humanization of dynamic  
data handling look like?  Well, the basis of useful data is typing...  
somehow divining the data storage (or live access) organization  
protocol of the source and automatically setting up reasonable  
affordances for presenting this data (should it be presented as a  
graph or a trellis or a table or a list or a ontological tree or a  
topology or a simulation or a linear story or 2 or 3D diagram...?   
How should the user filter the data for relevant subsets or  
patterns?  How should the user select boundaries?  Should the  
environment auto locate anomalies, averages, patterns, symmetries,  
exceptions, repetitions, duplicates, periods, growth, semantic  
crossovers, data type confusions, source location or entity,  
acquisition method, authority, agreement, etc.?  How should  
linguistic or mathematic semantics be brought to bare in all of this?


I don't  know exactly what HyperCard-ing or xTalk-ing dynamic data  
would look like... but I do know that RunRev and SuperCard and  
HyperCard are not it.  I also know that someone somewhere will offer  
up a solution that is good enough and this will be the next true  
revolution in user level complexity handling.


Google is in a good position to lead us into this promised land...  
but I don't see them doing so fast.  What they need to get better at  
(I would be surprised if they weren't hard at work on this) is client  
side/server side shared computing and its sundry tools.  Surely they  
don't want to own the mips such a scheme would require (or do  
they?)!  I guess we are talking about a "web 3.0" vision.  Does  
anyone remember the Kaleida Project (Apple, IBM, et. al.) http:// 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleida_Labs?  One of there big pushes was a  
user level instantiation of the model/viewer/controller development  
framework.  What they really didn't get (and it might have killed  
them) was the network or cloud as base or source, and exactly HOW  
dynamic data would become because of it.  But the demos I saw at the  
time showed discrete interest in making manipulation of data a live  
and user level process where the experience and manipulation of data  
was assumed to be a dynamic process.  However, though these concepts  
were reafiable within the ScriptX language, they were no more  
automatic than they are in your run of the mill xTalk incarnation.   
ScriptX had full object support... sat on top of a true OO method and  
data model.  But scripting looked more like C++ or Lingo than any  
natural language I have ever spoken.  Nothing I have mentioned  
previously that would be required to automate dynamic data access and  
manipulation was included at base architecture in the IDE.


Who will do it first?

Randall

On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:


On Jan 14, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Russell Martin wrote:


if I can't realistically store large amounts of data
in stacks (and get acceptable speed), then what is the point of  
using a

stack based development tool?


Russell,

This is an excellent question. The relevancy of cards (or even  
stack-based data-rich lists) being used for data is the issue, I  
think. The idea of local-only data is becoming anachronistic in a  
world where data is more likely to be stored in "the cloud" where  
it can stored and shared. I store my data in a cloud (on a server  
"somewhere" identified by a URL). I just tag field and button data  
with Rev field names and save/load them to and from text files. I  
also index records in separate file for fast searches and lists in  
my UI.


The idea of factoring data from UI is not a bad

Duplicate Problem

2008-01-14 Thread Andres Martinez


Hello

I am using RunRev  2.8.1 with GLX2 in Leopard.

Today I started a new project by duplicating another one that  
contained several cards, objects and scripts I wanted to reuse.


I renamed everything on this new project, but somehow I was unable to  
rename or change the "Stack Files in the Application" file to the  
new .rev file. Additionally, the usual "archive" folder created and  
managed by GLX2 is not there.


The file compiled fine but I got into a huge problem that I did not  
faced before... when I closed this new project and try to open the old  
one, everything is lost, the project opened is the new one. How can  
this be possible?


I assume that somehow GLX2 is storing the history of the new file on  
the same old "archive" folder.


How can I get back my old project? and how can I un-relate the new one  
from the old "archive" folder?


Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?


Hi Jan,

Clever :-)

Le 14 janv. 08 à 21:40, Jan Schenkel a écrit :


local sKeysDown

on rawKeyDown pKey
  if the keysDown is not sKeysDown then RefreshCursor
  pass rawKeyDown
end rawKeyDown

on rawKeyUp pKey
  if the keysDown is not sKeysDown then RefreshCursor
  pass rawKeyUp
end rawKeyUp

on RefreshCursor
  put the keysDown into sKeysDown
  if the controlKey is down then
set the defaultCursor to hand
  else
set the defaultCursor to arrow
  end if
end RefreshCursor


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: Rev cgi search question

2008-01-14 Thread Richard Miller


Len,

I understand your solution, and to an extent, I've already  
implemented it. But my situation is different than yours (if I  
understand what you are saying). In your case, it seems that the date  
links were able to retrieve sales data that was either already  
available or easy to produce. In my case, the searches are quite  
processor intensive and not something I want to do any more often  
than necessary. I need to be able to store the results and access  
them repeatedly (without forcing the user to use the back button),  
and it's not practical to store them in the html pages because it's  
just too much data.


Richard


On Jan 14, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Len Morgan wrote:

If I understand what you're trying to do, I've done something  
similar (but not with Rev) and it worked quite well.  What I had  
returned to the user was a table of dates of commissary sales  
data.  Only the dates and the total sales for the day were shown.   
I created a simple HTML table where the date was a link to a cgi  
script that took the date and returned the individual sales for  
that date.  That process sent back a new table that had a table row  
for each sale with the buyer's name, id#, and total amount of the  
sale (all links).  If you clicked on any link, it would take you to  
the itemized list for that particular sale.  The back button of the  
browser worked like you'd think it would so they could work their  
way through the list by just going back and forth.


Creating an HTML table with rev.cgi isn't that hard.  You can make  
it look nice and create a handler for the header, the footer, and  
then one for each line.  If you can get one table line to come out  
correct and nice looking, you just loop through it for as many  
results as you have.  Since you are saving the information in the  
link, you won't need any storage on the server to remember what the  
original search results were.  You can embed all sorts of  
information in each link that the user never sees.


Hope that helps.

len morgan


Richard Miller wrote:

I'm looking for suggestions on how to accomplish the following.

1. User starts a search of my text-based database (via browser and  
Rev cgi).
2. My app finds the results (which are a series of line numbers...  
possibly as many as 1000)
3. I now want to store those results so that when the user brings  
up a data page resulting from the search, they can go back to the  
results (presumably to go to another data page from the results)  
without having to re-do the search or use the back-button on their  
browser. I know how to store the results within a link (i.e.  
http://www.results.com?results=1,2,3...";), and I'm using this in  
various places already. But this won't work for me in all cases.


I'm guessing one solution might be to issue a temporary id number  
and connect that to a given users search process. The results  
could then be stored in a file on the server under this ID, with  
this page liquidated after some period of time (30 minutes? 60  
minutes?). Would this work or is there a better way to handle this.


Thanks.
Richard Miller
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update on my dimming edit menuitems

2008-01-14 Thread Andrew Meit

I found out after making a standalone that forcing a redraw of the  
window by either iconizing it in the dock and uniconizing it or by  
opening another window and then bring the main stack window frontmost  
again does not enabled the edit menuitems, only within IDE. Anyone  
seen this or have a work around?? Thank you.


Shalom, Andrew
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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?

2008-01-14 Thread Jan Schenkel

--- Sakari Ruoho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello folks,
> 
> Was wondering how to change the mouse cursor
> behavior, when user  
> presses either ctrl or shift key? Like in photoshop
> with select tool  
> where u can add to selection by pressing shift and
> remove from  
> selection by pressing ctrl? If anyone has
> implemented anything like  
> this, any help would be appreaciated. Thank you!
> 
> Sakari Ruoho
> 

Hi Sakari,

Others already suggested trapping the 'mouseWithin'
message, or polling every 100 milliseconds using a
'send in time' construct; here's a different approach:

##

local sKeysDown

on rawKeyDown pKey
  if the keysDown is not sKeysDown then RefreshCursor
  pass rawKeyDown
end rawKeyDown

on rawKeyUp pKey
  if the keysDown is not sKeysDown then RefreshCursor
  pass rawKeyUp
end rawKeyUp

on RefreshCursor
  put the keysDown into sKeysDown
  if the controlKey is down then
set the defaultCursor to hand
  else
set the defaultCursor to arrow
  end if
end RefreshCursor

##

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)


  

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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

2008-01-14 Thread SimPLsol

Russell,
Jerry put it well.
With Rev you can have the best of both worlds:
1. You can build simple databases simply - using stacks and cards.
2. You can build large, fast databases - differently.
In either case you have the benefit of a graphic UI (the card).
What you have learned about keeping Data, Interface, and Code separate will 
serve you well whichever route you go.
Paul Looney


**
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in 
shape.
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field


Russell Martin wrote:

I realize I'm kinda late to the party on this topic, but I just want to
express my dismay at finding out that using stacks as databases is
prohibitively slow. That just seems bassackwards.


Some feel the opposite:  binding the data to the UI makes one 
representation of the data convenient (a detail view), but no other 
representation will be as quick or convenient.


With all things in computing, performance is a matter of trade-offs. 
There is no one-size-fits-all solution for any given problem once the 
implications on all sides are taken into account.


Rather than enumerate them all and write one of my posts that's too 
lengthy to read, let's see what we can do to make working with your data 
as simple as possible with Rev.   Hopefully by the time we're done you 
might even be having fun. :)


How many records are you currently working with, and what is the 
greatest number of records your system is likely to need?


How many tables does your system require, and how many fields in each?

Will the final system be used mostly by yourself, or will it be used by 
others, perhaps within an organization or as a commercial product?


Will the system be used by one person at a time, or will it need to 
support multiple concurrent users?


What is the purpose of the data? Is there an existing program which may 
serve as an example for reference to get the gist of what you're building?



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Rev cgi search question

2008-01-14 Thread Len Morgan

If I understand what you're trying to do, I've done something similar 
(but not with Rev) and it worked quite well.  What I had returned to the 
user was a table of dates of commissary sales data.  Only the dates and 
the total sales for the day were shown.  I created a simple HTML table 
where the date was a link to a cgi script that took the date and 
returned the individual sales for that date.  That process sent back a 
new table that had a table row for each sale with the buyer's name, id#, 
and total amount of the sale (all links).  If you clicked on any link, 
it would take you to the itemized list for that particular sale.  The 
back button of the browser worked like you'd think it would so they 
could work their way through the list by just going back and forth.


Creating an HTML table with rev.cgi isn't that hard.  You can make it 
look nice and create a handler for the header, the footer, and then one 
for each line.  If you can get one table line to come out correct and 
nice looking, you just loop through it for as many results as you have.  
Since you are saving the information in the link, you won't need any 
storage on the server to remember what the original search results 
were.  You can embed all sorts of information in each link that the user 
never sees.


Hope that helps.

len morgan


Richard Miller wrote:

I'm looking for suggestions on how to accomplish the following.

1. User starts a search of my text-based database (via browser and Rev 
cgi).
2. My app finds the results (which are a series of line numbers... 
possibly as many as 1000)
3. I now want to store those results so that when the user brings up a 
data page resulting from the search, they can go back to the results 
(presumably to go to another data page from the results) without 
having to re-do the search or use the back-button on their browser. I 
know how to store the results within a link (i.e. 
http://www.results.com?results=1,2,3...";), and I'm using this in 
various places already. But this won't work for me in all cases.


I'm guessing one solution might be to issue a temporary id number and 
connect that to a given users search process. The results could then 
be stored in a file on the server under this ID, with this page 
liquidated after some period of time (30 minutes? 60 minutes?). Would 
this work or is there a better way to handle this.


Thanks.
Richard Miller
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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field


On Jan 14, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Russell Martin wrote:


if I can't realistically store large amounts of data
in stacks (and get acceptable speed), then what is the point of  
using a

stack based development tool?


Russell,

This is an excellent question. The relevancy of cards (or even stack- 
based data-rich lists) being used for data is the issue, I think. The  
idea of local-only data is becoming anachronistic in a world where  
data is more likely to be stored in "the cloud" where it can stored  
and shared. I store my data in a cloud (on a server "somewhere"  
identified by a URL). I just tag field and button data with Rev field  
names and save/load them to and from text files. I also index records  
in separate file for fast searches and lists in my UI.


The idea of factoring data from UI is not a bad idea or a new one.  
That said, I DO use cards, but they house the different UI's dictated  
by the workflow of my apps. Rev stack/card metaphor serves very nice  
for this. The case for "factoring" comes from the idea that sending  
your app to someone else with all its data uses a lot of bandwidth  
whereas sending an app that accesses the separate data makes for easy  
app sharing. Sharing an app is sharing human intelligence--a good thing.


If your data is forever to be local and never shared, it might make  
more sense to use the cards for record data. Myself, I think of my  
apps as being used by someone other than myself--even if it's just  
someone with whom I work. Since everyone with whom I work is tethered  
to the cloud, i put my data into the cloud.


My 2 centavos,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.daniels-mara.com/glx2




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HyperNext ? Worth a look ?

2008-01-14 Thread Richmond Mathewson

Wow! Russell Martin did a lot of good work there!

However . . .

1. Splash Screens:

In CREATOR under MenuItem "Windows/Splash Screen" you
are dropped
straight into a Splash Screen Designer that allows you
set all sorts of text items and choose a background
image.

You cannot set the textFont or the textSize which is
bad.

However if one has a Backdrop Image the text is not
displayed which is a bit of a b*gg*r!

Mr Tigabyte has good ideas, but (if, as I suspect) he
is working toute seul, probably doesn't have enough
manpower or feedback to  implement things well. Of
course if his Forums worked he would get some bright
thinking chaps like us to give him a helping hand.

Time for RR to steal this one! And, improve on it.

2. Also under the MenuItem "Windows" (Um, unfortunate
choice of word - "palettes" might go down better in
some quarters):

Menu Designer

and

About Box Designer (errm, a clone of the Splash Screen
Designer).

These are WELL WORTH A LOOK, and could, indeed, give
some folks pause for thought.

3. The Preferences are very primitive.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Rev cgi search question

2008-01-14 Thread Richard Miller


I'm looking for suggestions on how to accomplish the following.

1. User starts a search of my text-based database (via browser and  
Rev cgi).
2. My app finds the results (which are a series of line numbers...  
possibly as many as 1000)
3. I now want to store those results so that when the user brings up  
a data page resulting from the search, they can go back to the  
results (presumably to go to another data page from the results)  
without having to re-do the search or use the back-button on their  
browser. I know how to store the results within a link (i.e. http:// 
www.results.com?results=1,2,3..."), and I'm using this in various  
places already. But this won't work for me in all cases.


I'm guessing one solution might be to issue a temporary id number and  
connect that to a given users search process. The results could then  
be stored in a file on the server under this ID, with this page  
liquidated after some period of time (30 minutes? 60 minutes?). Would  
this work or is there a better way to handle this.


Thanks.
Richard Miller
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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

2008-01-14 Thread Mark Smith

Russell, how much data and how many cards do you envisage using?   
There are many ways of storing data in Revolution, and good  
performance is not necessaily hard to achieve.


Can you describe your project a bit?

Best,

Mark
On 14 Jan 2008, at 18:49, Russell Martin wrote:

I realize I'm kinda late to the party on this topic, but I just  
want to

express my dismay at finding out that using stacks as databases is
prohibitively slow. That just seems bassackwards.

A big part of why I started looking into HyperCard, SuperCard, and  
then

Revolution was because I finally got the genius of the stack of cards
paradigm. Now, I'm being told that the time and effort I've spent
learning how to create template stacks within my projects, clone them,
write them out to disk, and keep my code for their buttons, etc.  
inside

of another stack in my project is all for naught because I should have
been learning how to store information in delimited list fields?

Is anyone else bothered by this? Instead of programming around the
stack, shouldn't we be clamoring for Revolution to fix this  
performance

problem? I mean, if I can't realistically store large amounts of data
in stacks (and get acceptable speed), then what is the point of  
using a

stack based development tool? If I have to store my data as a big
delimited chunk of text and develop methods of iterating through it  
and

then populating UI elements from it, then I might as well be using any
other dev tool.



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Re: Many Cards Versus One Card and a List Field

2008-01-14 Thread Russell Martin

I realize I'm kinda late to the party on this topic, but I just want to
express my dismay at finding out that using stacks as databases is
prohibitively slow. That just seems bassackwards.

A big part of why I started looking into HyperCard, SuperCard, and then
Revolution was because I finally got the genius of the stack of cards
paradigm. Now, I'm being told that the time and effort I've spent
learning how to create template stacks within my projects, clone them,
write them out to disk, and keep my code for their buttons, etc. inside
of another stack in my project is all for naught because I should have
been learning how to store information in delimited list fields?

Is anyone else bothered by this? Instead of programming around the
stack, shouldn't we be clamoring for Revolution to fix this performance
problem? I mean, if I can't realistically store large amounts of data
in stacks (and get acceptable speed), then what is the point of using a
stack based development tool? If I have to store my data as a big
delimited chunk of text and develop methods of iterating through it and
then populating UI elements from it, then I might as well be using any
other dev tool.

--- Gregory Lypny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thank you for your responses Sarah, Mark, Paul, and Richard,
> 
> As always, thoughtful and insightful.  You've confirmed what I've  
> learned with my experience with Revolution, comparing the
> one-card-per- 
> record model with the one-card-as-a-display model, so now I'm  
> convinced that I can abandon the former for most projects.  Richard,
> I  
> would be interested in seeing some of those database handlers.  I've 
> 
> got a few bits and pieces and approaches of my own, many motivated by
>  
> discussions on this list.  Here are three.
> 
> 1.  I don't use the Filter command anymore because it is much too
> slow  
> on big lists and is too cumbersome to script when the search is  
> restricted to particular line items.  Instead, I use handlers with  
> Repeat-for-each loops or Split to create arrays, probably like Paul  
> does.
> 
> 2.  For big data sets, I generally initialize a variable to be a  
> number using arithmetic commands rather than "put" when it is to be  
> used as an index or  iteratively in a calculation.  This means that  
> I'll invoke the variable by writing "add 1 to x" rather than "put 1  
> into x" to get things going, and subsequently rely on arithmetic  
> commands.  This is motivated by an excellent thread on this topic by 
> 
> Wil Dijkstra in April, 2003.
> 
> 3.  I've only begun to tinker with custom properties, and have found 
> 
> them to be handy for storing information on database structure (e.g.,
>  
> first name is always the third item in any line of a Personal  
> Information list field), but I keep the actual record data in a list 
> 
> field and back it up into plain text files.  I have found that
> scripts  
> work much faster if custom props are pre-loaded into variables
> outside  
> a repeat loop rather than being called anew at each iteration.  I've 
> 
> observed a ten-fold speed increase in some cases.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gregory Lypny
> 
> Associate Professor of Finance
> John Molson School of Business
> Concordia University
> Montreal, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From Sarah:
> 
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2008, at 6:09 AM, use-revolution- 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > I would recommend the list field-single card method for Rev. With
> > Hypercard, marking cards by finding was super fast. With Rev this
> is
> > not the case. I wrote a small database (about 4000 records) in
> > Hypercard for some friends, using the one card per record method.
> When
> > they changed to OS X, I tried just importing it into Rev but
> searching
> > for multiple matches was unworkably slow. I converted it all to a
> > single card plus data field and it was all good again. Plus the
> data
> > is easier to back up and restore if I send them a program update.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sarah
> 
>  From Mark:
> 
> > Sarah is right. Keeping data on individual cards makes Revolution
> > extremely slow. A long time ago, I used the bible to create a
> > database of approximately 32000 records for a test, i.e. 32000
> cards.
> > Running the test on a 350Mhz iMac, a search for a string could take
> > an hour if this string was on one of the last cards. The same test
> in
> > a HyperCard stack with 32000 cards took a few seconds at most.
> >
> > If you keep data in a custom property or in a file on disk, you can
> > search strings about as fast as with HyperCard. Particularly if you
> > have all data in memory and use an offset function or a filter
> > command, you can perform searches very quickly.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Mark Schonewille
> 
>  From Paul:
> 
> > There are three big benefits from using the one-card approach with 
> 
> > Rev.
> > The programs will run faster.
> > The stacks will be smaller.
> > It will be easier to build menus.
> >
> > BTW, I have found "repeat for each lin

Re: HyperNext ? Worth a look ?

2008-01-14 Thread Russell Martin

I just downloaded it. I didn't have any problems downloading it, and it
wasn't terribly slow either. I think my download speed averaged about
39k per second. It was the Mac version.

Now, once I downloaded it and played around with it, I'm both impressed
and amused.

He's obviously built this with RealBasic. And, as someone who used to
struggle with the poor quality and bugginess of RealBasic, I have to
hand it to him, he's achieved something nearly miraculous. Namely, he's
almost managed to make a working HyperCard-like environment and he's
done it in RealBasic. Did I mention that RealBasic is very buggy?
(Okay, enough trashing on RB.)

However, as impressed as I am with what he's managed to achieve, from
the 15 minutes I spent playing with it, I'm amused that he was once
attempting to charge money for it and I don't see how anyone could use
it regularly for serious software development.

For starters, the splash screen comes up and stays up on every launch
until you click a button to dismiss it. Annoying.

Before I launched Creator (that's the name of the HyperNext development
environment, not to be confused with "Developer", which is the name of
the HyperNext plugin creation tool). I attempted to double click on the
HellowWorld.prj file in the included sample projects.

TextMate opened up and displayed a garbled text interpretation of the
project file. That might be my Mac's fault. I quit TextMate and then I
right clicked on HelloWorld.prj and chose Open With Creator. Creator
launched and I clicked the annoying button in the splash screen, but
once the program loaded, HelloWorld.prj did not load.

So, I went File, Open and opened the HelloWorld sample project. It's
not much, just one card with two buttons on it. One of them opens a
message box that says (you guessed it) "Hello World". The other button
uses speech to say, "Hello World". I clicked on each button, clicked
the edit script button in the properties window. All of the design
windows disappear when you are in the code editor window. The code
editor window seemed pretty straight forward. I didn't edit any code, I
just clicked on each of the object/event pairs listed on the left and
looked at the simple scripts in the edit window on the right. When you
close the editor, the design evironment comes back.

I then pressed "Run" in the "C Mode" window. This appeared to compile
the project, suspend the development project and then run the compiled
app. That's no biggie, except when I chose to quit, Creator just quit.
It did not take me back to the development environment like I expected.

Okay, so I opened up Creator again, and re-opened HelloWorld.prj. This
time I clicked on "Preview" instead of "Run". And, the project ran as
expected and I was able to switch back to "Design" using the "C Mode"
window. I've now noticed that this window is present even when you
choose "Run" and it can be used to switch from "Run" back to "Design".

The next thing I did was compile HelloWorld for OS X. There are two OS
X compile options in the "Go" menu, "Build Mac OS X PEF" and "Build Mac
OS X MachO". Only the "Build Mac OS X PEF" option works, choosing the
"Build Mac OS X MachO" option just presents a message box stating that
this feature is not yet implemented.

The app compiled. It built a 7.2MB Carbon application (when you right
click on the compiled app, there is no "Show Package Contents" option).

When I launched the compiled HelloWorld_X app, there was a default
splash screen. There is no button on this splash screen for dismissal,
but it sits on the screen until until you click in it. I think having a
pre-made splash screen could be a nice feature. And, maybe there is an
option somewhere in the project settings to determine whether or not to
display the splash screen, or whether or not the user has to click on
the splash screen to make it go away, but the default is awful. I can
imagine many end users would be a bit stymied by the default splash
screen of a compiled HyperNext project. A quick check of the Guide's
entry on the Splash screen only tells how to customize the information
within your project's splash screen, not how to disable it or have it
automatically disappear after a pre-defined time.

I then tried two other sample projects, the "Speak" sample project and
the "MP3 Player" sample project. In the little bit of playing with
HyperNext that I'd done up to now, something happened to Creator. When
I switch from Design mode to Preview mode, events no longer seem to
fire. I now have to either compile or switch to Run mode to have
buttons respond and code execute. I've quit Creator and opened it
several times and the problem remains. Even HelloWorld, which at first
worked perfectly in Preview mode, will now only respond when in Run
mode or by using the compiled app. And, now, every time I switch modes,
my MacBook makes a strange click.

Also, after I compiled the MP3 Player project and ran it, I tried
dragging some MP3s into its window. They did get add

Re: Showing unsaved status for document-based windows

2008-01-14 Thread Jim Ault

On 1/14/08 10:19 AM, "Graham Samuel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pardon my ignorance, but what is Default Folder X and where do I find
> it - I dimly perceive that it may be useful?

For me, it is indispensable and an automatic part of my workday.
This utility tracks and remembers folders you have used in all of your
programs, then adds a toolbar to the Save As or Open file window.

Also, it offers a drop down listing of all the open windows in your Finder,
also Favorites, the directory tree for you connected hard drives

Many other features.  One other cool feature:  As you are looking at the
system window open, moving the cursor around the screen(s) will highlite the
Finder windows you have open and a single click will change the active
folder to that window.

Google "default folder X"
It is well-supported and worked flawlessly for me for years.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

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Re: Showing unsaved status for document-based windows

2008-01-14 Thread Graham Samuel

Pardon my ignorance, but what is Default Folder X and where do I find  
it - I dimly perceive that it may be useful?


Graham


On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:20:37 +, 14 Ian Wood  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



?!?

Default Folder X works fine with Rev and with Rev standalones. Has
done for years, I'd be going nuts if it didn't.

Ian




--
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France


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Re: Video on Linux


Thanks Tim,

I thought I had mplayer installed, but it was something called movie- 
player. The tutorial videos now work as you describe, including the  
sticky child window. I'll wait for dp-4.


Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

--

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Quickly extract data from your HyperCard stacks with DIFfersifier.  
http://differsifier.economy-x-talk.com



Op 14-jan-2008, om 17:34 heeft Tim Shields het volgende geschreven:


Hi Mark,

The Linux version requires that the latest version of mplayer is
installed on your system to enable playing of video's (in the same way
as the Windows and OSX versions require quicktime player to be
installed.)

If you try and play a video without mplayer installed, there is a bug
in the current DP which does not delete the child window (that it
prepares for the video to play in) - hence the apparent non-redrawing.
It should only be the docs stack that does not redraw - the other
stacks (without video sub-windows) should be unaffected. This bug will
be fixed in DP-4.

Regards,

Tim.


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Re: HyperNext ? Worth a look ?

Bill, I couldn't even download the Mac version--even at the super slow  
download rate.


On Jan 13, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Bill Marriott wrote:

Everytime I tried to download the WIndows version, I got a  
corrupted .zip

file. (And anemic file transfer speed.)



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Re: Referencing a prop of the curent card in another stack

Mark has hit the nail on the head. The "currentCard" property (of a  
stack) will yield the card currently showing in a stack, even if it is  
not the defaultstack, even if it is invisible. In order to use  
"current" or "this card" you will have to set (and often reset) the  
defaultStack. "currentCard" eliminates the defaultStack two-step.


BONUS: When you set the currentCard of a stack (instead of using "go  
to cd n"), the stack will NOT show if it is invisible, but the current  
card will change. Very handy! We use this call in GLX2 and VAB (oops,  
did I say that out loud!). "currentCard" has been around for a while-- 
part of the later 2.7 versions of Rev, I believe. It's not all that new.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.daniels-mara.com/glx2



On Jan 13, 2008, at 2:57 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:



On Jan 13, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

How do i refer to a card in another window (stack)  if all i know  
is that it is the current card in that window?


The currentCard of window x?

-Mark

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Re: Video on Linux

2008-01-14 Thread Tim Shields

Hi Mark,

The Linux version requires that the latest version of mplayer is
installed on your system to enable playing of video's (in the same way
as the Windows and OSX versions require quicktime player to be
installed.)

If you try and play a video without mplayer installed, there is a bug
in the current DP which does not delete the child window (that it
prepares for the video to play in) - hence the apparent non-redrawing.
It should only be the docs stack that does not redraw - the other
stacks (without video sub-windows) should be unaffected. This bug will
be fixed in DP-4.

Regards,

Tim.


On 14 Jan, 15:46, Mark Schonewille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi Linux users,
>
> I have noticed that the on-line tutorial videos don't play "out of
> the box" (accessible trough the documentation window). Also, if a
> tutorial video is loaded but can't be displayed, Rev's windows locks
> up. I can still select menus and click in windows to activate them,
> but windows are no longer redrawn.
>
> I am using the latest Ubuntu with GNOME and 2.9 beta 10. Who is able
> to play the video tutorials under Linux, using Rev's latest beta
> version?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> --
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software 
> Engineeringhttp://economy-x-talk.comhttp://www.salery.biz
>
> Quickly extract data from your HyperCard stacks with DIFfersifier.  
> http://differsifier.economy-x-talk.com
>
> ___
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Re: HyperNext ? Worth a look ?

2008-01-14 Thread Wilhelm Sanke


Bill Marriott wjm at wjm.org wrote:


Everytime I tried to download the WIndows version, I got a corrupted .zip
file. (And anemic file transfer speed.)


Same with me!

Wilhelm Sanke


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Video on Linux


Hi Linux users,

I have noticed that the on-line tutorial videos don't play "out of
the box" (accessible trough the documentation window). Also, if a
tutorial video is loaded but can't be displayed, Rev's windows locks
up. I can still select menus and click in windows to activate them,
but windows are no longer redrawn.

I am using the latest Ubuntu with GNOME and 2.9 beta 10. Who is able
to play the video tutorials under Linux, using Rev's latest beta
version?

Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

--

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Quickly extract data from your HyperCard stacks with DIFfersifier.  
http://differsifier.economy-x-talk.com



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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?

Sure but not so much: I am used to write pending messages (400 lines  
of code) that run every 200 milliseconds and all goes well as long as  
it involves one screen refresh only.
In addition, Photoshop behavior occurs without any click (and I  
understand this: before clicking, you know what will happen :-)

From an ergonomic point of view, it seems necessary here...

Le 14 janv. 08 à 15:57, Björnke von Gierke a écrit :

Mouse within is highly processing intensive. As you are just trying  
to change the behaviour when the user clicks, why can't you use  
this instead?


On 14 Jan 2008, at 12:07, Sakari Ruoho wrote:


Hello folks,

Was wondering how to change the mouse cursor behavior, when user  
presses either ctrl or shift key? Like in photoshop with select  
tool where u can add to selection by pressing shift and remove  
from selection by pressing ctrl? If anyone has implemented  
anything like this, any help would be appreaciated. Thank you!


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?

2008-01-14 Thread Björnke von Gierke

Mouse within is highly processing intensive. As you are just trying to  
change the behaviour when the user clicks, why can't you use this  
instead?


on mouseUp --or mouseDown, depending what you do
  if the altKey is down then
---do alt stuff
  else if the controlKey is down
--do ctrl stuff
  else
--do normal stuff
  end if
end mouseUp

On 14 Jan 2008, at 12:07, Sakari Ruoho wrote:


Hello folks,

Was wondering how to change the mouse cursor behavior, when user  
presses either ctrl or shift key? Like in photoshop with select tool  
where u can add to selection by pressing shift and remove from  
selection by pressing ctrl? If anyone has implemented anything like  
this, any help would be appreaciated. Thank you!



--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?


Some additional information:
There are three messages you can use in such a case that are sent  
every 200 ms.


. Idle does not expects that the cursor is within any control rect  
and will be sent to the current card continuously: avoid to use it  
for this reason :-)
. MouseWithin (like mouseStillDown) will be only sent to a control  
when the mouse hovers it even if the cursor is not moved: less  
intrusive yet :-)
. MouseMove will be only sent to a control when the mouse is moved  
within the control rect: this one is the less overloading CPU use: as  
soon as you can use it, prefer it :-)


But in your case, MouseWithin seems to be the more appropriate  
because the cursor will change even if the mouse is not moved.


Le 14 janv. 08 à 13:15, Sakari Ruoho a écrit :

Wow! Thank you! Never even noticed mouseWithin handler or ignored  
it.. Problem solved



On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:


Hi Sakari,

Le 14 janv. 08 à 12:07, Sakari Ruoho a écrit :


Hello folks,

Was wondering how to change the mouse cursor behavior, when user  
presses either ctrl or shift key? Like in photoshop with select  
tool where u can add to selection by pressing shift and remove  
from selection by pressing ctrl? If anyone has implemented  
anything like this, any help would be appreaciated. Thank you!


Sakari Ruoho
Software Designer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To achieve this you can use a mouseWithin handler:

on mouseWithin
 if the shiftKey is dow then set the cursor to x
 else if the optionKey is down then set the cursor to y
 else set the cursor to z
 lock cursor
end mouseWithin
-
on mouseLeave
unlock cursor
end mouseLeave

By default mouseWithin will be sent every 200 ms but you can  
adjust this value by setting the idleRate (or idleTicks) property.


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?

2008-01-14 Thread Sakari Ruoho

Wow! Thank you! Never even noticed mouseWithin handler or ignored it..  
Problem solved



On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:


Hi Sakari,

Le 14 janv. 08 à 12:07, Sakari Ruoho a écrit :


Hello folks,

Was wondering how to change the mouse cursor behavior, when user  
presses either ctrl or shift key? Like in photoshop with select  
tool where u can add to selection by pressing shift and remove from  
selection by pressing ctrl? If anyone has implemented anything like  
this, any help would be appreaciated. Thank you!


Sakari Ruoho
Software Designer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To achieve this you can use a mouseWithin handler:

on mouseWithin
 if the shiftKey is dow then set the cursor to x
 else if the optionKey is down then set the cursor to y
 else set the cursor to z
 lock cursor
end mouseWithin
-
on mouseLeave
unlock cursor
end mouseLeave

By default mouseWithin will be sent every 200 ms but you can adjust  
this value by setting the idleRate (or idleTicks) property.


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Sakari Ruoho
Software Designer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: How to change cursor with ctrl and shift?