Re: OT: Analyzing competitors

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Richard

> > I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
> > subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.
> >
> > Keith Hutchison
> > REALbasic - Java
> > http://realopen.org
>
> And yet here you are.

Not really, I maintain this subscription because.

1. The people on this list are generally as helpful and as smart as the
people on the RealBasic Lists.

2. At some stage the graphic artists I work with are going to do something
the RunRev code I wrote for them that uses sockets to connect some realbasic
console apps I wrote.
(I found about about this list when writing the code)

3. A good idea is a good idea. This list produces good ideas.

4. Eventually I'll buy a copy of DreamCard or RunRev.
I actually was placing an order for the entry level RunRev just when the
site went down for the new versions. I got turned off by the confusion over
the name change and what DreamCard could and could not do.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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RunRev and sockets.

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Mark,

> KH> I am really interested in exploring the idea of having RunRev stacks
talking
> KH> to RealBasic compiled apps, via tcpip.
>
> Shouldn't be a problem. I've got runrev stacks talking with MSAccess
> apps over sockets.

Did you have hassles with MSAccess handling dead tcpip connections?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Mark,

> This was not meant to be a Rev vs this or that topic.  I was really
> trying to talk more about the marketing aspect of one app vs a
> competing app.  On this list, many are aware of both Rev and RB and
> could make the fragile connection.
Well thats what it turned into, someone laughing at REALBasic syntax and
showing how much simpler RunRev is. Hence the nature of my response. One of
the hidden beautiful things about REALbasic is you can, using
object.doSomthing.syntax create your own syntax by using subclasses. I am in
no way bagging RunRev.

> It is final...this is a thought that should have stayed right in my
> head.
It provoked thoughtful discussion, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Keith Hutchison
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Mark

> KH> eg. I have a listbox subclass that automatically finds data based on
it's
> KH> name.
>
> True subclassing is one of the things I would most like to have in
> runrev.  Someday.

I am sure it will.

Keith Hutchison
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Mark,

> KH> I find it interesting that the title is 'Analyzing competitors'.
>
> I didn't change the original subject when I first replied, but I'm
> with you in thinking of them not so much as competitors but just as
> different tools to get to the same endpoint. I don't think of runrev
> as the One True Tool, but I like to give it little pushes in that
> direction...
Same :-)

I am really interested in exploring the idea of having RunRev stacks talking
to RealBasic compiled apps, via tcpip.

eg the following example shows a linux console app (RB compiled) talking to
a REALBasic compiled gui app. It could just as easily be a RunRev stack.
http://balance-infosystems.com/training/linux/commandingWinGUIfromLinux.html


Keith Hutchison
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
> 
> replace "bug" with "feature" in myString  ?
> 
in REALBasic I extended the string class so that I can

someString.replaceAll("bug","feature")

without extending it would be
someString = replaceAll( someString, "bug", "feature" )

Keith Hutchison
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
> RealBasic - one line
> 
> fontMenuButton.font = Me.SelTextFont
>
further, you can create custom bindings in REALbasic where you have one
subclass talking to another.

So you can get the result you want by setting the subclasses and 'drawing' a
line between the two objects.

eg. I have a listbox subclass that automatically finds data based on it's
name.
And the data source can be postgres, mysql, xml, adodb.
At the window level, all I have is the listbox.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Troy

> > Given that both RunRev and RealBasic can use tcpip sockets I think of
the
> > products as complimentary. I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
> > subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.
> >
>
> Well, they are clearly more designed to be competitors than partners,
> but I get what you are saying.
>
> In my case, we use several tools too, generally trying to select the
> right language and IDE to best perform the scope of the project.
> Frequently, Revolution has won over the other tools as it is extremely
> productive. REALbasic usually wins out when capability and depth is
> the most important thing. Director is the fastest to do fully custom
> "multimedia" and UI... and so on.

I agree, the task at hand is the important focus.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
> Rev:
> -
> put the effective textFont of the selection into tFont
> if tFont <> the label of me then
>   select line (lineOffset(cr& tFont &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of
> btn "FontMenu"
> end if
>
> or, if you like a one-liner:
>
> select line (lineOffset(cr&(the effective textFont of the selection)
>   &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of btn "FontMenu"

You could also subclass, or extend the syntax of realBasic and have code
which is
RealBasic - one line

fontMenuButton.font = Me.SelTextFont

with the font method you then test if the new value equals the old value and
then take the action you want.

Which code is easier to read/understand?

If I want a font menu on a window I just drop a popup menu on the window and
set it's subclass to kjtlPopupMenuFont.

That's it.

Ignorance is a dangerous thing ...

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

2005-03-22 Thread Keith Hutchison
> Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 10:21:33 AM, you wrote:
>
> DS> Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the
> DS> impression it didn't.
No. But there is a feature request for externals.

> Er... I'm not sure... I don't think so. What I meant was that RB and
> VB have a way of calling functions that are in external libraries
> (DLLs and such), while you have to do a bit more work creating shim
> functions in runrev to get there.
REALBasic also is able to call external libraries. On MacOSX, Linux and
Win32.

I find it interesting that the title is 'Analyzing competitors'.

Given that both RunRev and RealBasic can use tcpip sockets I think of the
products as complimentary. I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.


Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org


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Re: revDatabase

2005-03-03 Thread Keith Hutchison

It could be new vs old passwords.
4.1 uses a new password encryption routine.
It is possible however to create / set the mysql database to accept an old
style password for an account

Keith

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Shafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: revDatabase


> I can report that on OS X 10.3.8 with Rev 2.5 and the same MySQL as
> you're running, connections work just fine.
>
> Dan
>
> On Mar 3, 2005, at 7:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > i'm trying to use the revDatabase library features and am connecting
> > to a MySQL database, but
> > am getting the error "Client does not support authentication protocol
> > requested by server;
> > consider upgrading MySQL client"..
> >
> > what MySQL says about this error is:
> > "MySQL 4.1 and up uses an authentication protocol based on a password
> > hashing  algorithm
> > that is incompatible with that used by older clients.  If you upgrade
> > the server to 4.1, attempts
> > to connect to it with an  older client may fail with the following
> > message:"
> >
> > i'm using:
> > RunRev 2.0.3
> > Mac OS X 10.3.8
> > MySQL 4.1.10-standard
> >
> > is there a newer version of the library that connects to the MySQL
> > server properly?
> >
> >
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Re: SourceForce like site for RunRev projects

2004-10-02 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Andre,

How about a RunTime product that reads and writes the html pages from
gforge?

<
I don't think I am good enough for interfacing with gForge =/

it's internals are too complex and I would not want to break someones
project because I forgot some ID or due to a bad transaction... =)

Cheers
andre
>

Keith

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Re: SourceForce like site for RunRev projects

2004-10-02 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Andre,

> thanks for the help, gForge is very cool, I was coding everything from
> ground up to live to that "we eat our own haggis" motto.
I had haggis, once :-) (My father is from Edinburugh, Scotland)

> I am making a very minimalistic site, nothing like support tickets or
clever bugzilla
> support.

Gforge runs with a postgresql backend, it would be neat if you made a
runtime product that talked directly with a gforge powered site. That would
be eating enough of your own haggis!

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: SourceForce like site for RunRev projects

2004-10-02 Thread Keith Hutchison
We use gforge as the backbone for REALopen.org.
It was relatively simple to set up. Gforge is a code offshoot from
SourceForge.
http://gforge.org/

It saved us months of work.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer"

2004-09-03 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Chipp,

> Sorry to hear you say this. But of course you have your reasons.

>

Thanks for your response, we were getting fairly frustrated with make up
your mind in ten hours or forget it message. Frankly it caused confusion.

I had made the decision to buy Runtime Express because
1. It built standalone apps.
2. It works with sockets.
3. It had a syntax that was similar to HyperCard
4. Some of the people on the list were really helpful in sorting out
sockets.
5. Mostly because the graphic's people wanted it and it could work with my
existing apps.
I went to the store to buy the product but the store was down in preparation
for the upgrade.

Then Dreamcard came out.
1. It appears to be very different, as in more features than Express
2. It lost some functionality in relation to graphics or graphics
processing, don't ask me for the details I was not doing the gui evaluation,
on sockets, Express came up fine for me.
3. It lost the ability to create standalones. bummer :-(
4. It seemed to be more buggy, which I've come to expect from the first new
release of any product, REALbasic included.

It seems to me that as a developer, the entry point is now Runtime Studio
whereas previously you could start with Runtime Express, built the gui,
upgrade to Studio as we reach release point.

The graphic designers decided to go with REALbasic.
Especially after I pressed them for an answer. It literally was the make up
your mind in ten hours that lost it for them. Literally. That was the
immediate purchasing result, in our case.

I will wait for the current version to shake out it bugs and then buy a
version. I can see great potential is getting the strengths of each ide
working with other with sockets, by each IDE I mean Runtime, REALbasic, MS
Access, Delphi, Foxpro, PHP, Perl and even old Filemaker via Apple Script
and ole :-)

> My understanding is that both the Dreamcard and Revolution demos are
> exactly the same with the following exceptions:
>
> 1) Dreamcard has a 10-hour trial limit; Rev has a 30-day trial limit
> 2) Dreamcard has a 'Dreamcard' splash screen on startup, whereas Rev has
> a 'Revolution' splash screen on startup
> Other than that, they are identical.
So the same 'stack' will still work in all versions of RR?

> Now, if you were to purchase Rev,
> then you can build your own standalones (kinda like SuperCard), whereas
> if you purchase the less expensive Dreamcard, you'll need to bundle the
> player (kinda like HyperCard). But, you can always upgrade from
> Dreamcard to Revolution if you want to make a standalone of your
> Dreamcard stack.
Good to know. In what version does the links for the database engines start?

>
> There are probably many reasons for creating the new Dreamcard product.
> As a professional user, I am happy RR has decided to separate the two
> products as IMO, there are both pluses and minuses for a product like
> Dreamcard. Plus: Easy to use and get started with, recognizable 'card'
> metaphor with Apple folks. Minus: Association with Hypercard and poorly
> designed stacks can create a 'stigma' for professional developers (this
> happened with my previous company and Director a few years ago).
Happens with RB as well.

> In anycase, there are two products, but one IDE. While RealBasic is a
> fine programming environment, there are many here with RB experience who
> prefer RR. In fact, Andre Garzia is an experienced RB users and a big
> proponent of RR. I suggest you consider contacting him for some
> comparison questions.
OK. Thanks.

> Also, Geoff Canyon created a RB/RR wiki a year or
> so ago which may lend further insight (anyone know a link). If you have
> any other questions, please ask :-)
Geoff's link is old circa 2001 from memory. Each product has changed a great
deal since then.

Thanks Chipp

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer"

2004-09-02 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Dan,

> RunRev's a small company. It needs to stick to its knitting and make
> money\, not gratuitously fund newbies in the hope of some phantom
> long-term gain.

Balance-Infosystems.Com is also a small company.

Frankly the ten hour issue and the new differentiation between Dreamcard and
Runtime Revolution scared us off. We are not ranting, just not (currently)
buying.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer"

2004-09-02 Thread Keith Hutchison
This email should of referenced dreamcard instead of Runtime Revolution
The name change is confusing, for me.

With  Express, which I was just about to buy when the store went down,
I knew it had all the functionality _I_ wanted, compiled an executable,
which was something I wanted, and advertised Runtime Revolution every time
it quit as a nag to upgrade to studio, which I felt was a fair enough.

Is there an upgrade path from DreamCard to Runtime Studio?
The message I sent to runtime rev was bounced with a polite message to
address all such queries to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why not just change the name across the board, DreamCard, DreamStudio and
DreamEnterprise, which implies an upgrade path.

>
> Exactly :-)
>
> > Because it's in Rev's best interest that they learn to use *their*
product
> > instead of somebody else's...
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Dan Shafer wrote:
> >
> > > If they have _no_ skills or background training in software but want
to
> > > learn, why should they learn for free?
>
> Let me state that I prefer REALbasic to Runtime Revolution.
> My graphic artist prefers Runtime Revolution to REALbasic
>
> I am off to train another graphic artist in the use of REALbasic next
week.
> I have asked 'my' graphic artist to evaluate Runtime Revolution _before_
> I go. I figure that if one graphic art's person prefers Runtime Revolution
> then the chances are high that another might. I don't care which one they
> use, as long as they are weaned off Filemaker :-) and can access the
> postgreql backend.
>
> Let's hope he can give me a recommendation _before_ the ten hours is up.
>
> Keith Hutchison
> Balance-Infosystems.Com
>
> postgresql - mysql - dbf
> Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
> http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org
>
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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer"

2004-09-02 Thread Keith Hutchison

Exactly :-)

> Because it's in Rev's best interest that they learn to use *their* product
> instead of somebody else's...
>
> Judy
>
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
> > If they have _no_ skills or background training in software but want to
> > learn, why should they learn for free?

Let me state that I prefer REALbasic to Runtime Revolution.
My graphic artist prefers Runtime Revolution to REALbasic

I am off to train another graphic artist in the use of REALbasic next week.
I have asked 'my' graphic artist to evaluate Runtime Revolution _before_
I go. I figure that if one graphic art's person prefers Runtime Revolution
then the chances are high that another might. I don't care which one they
use, as long as they are weaned off Filemaker :-) and can access the
postgreql backend.

Let's hope he can give me a recommendation _before_ the ten hours is up.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer" ?

2004-09-01 Thread Keith Hutchison
Excellent idea :-)

> I would assume the 10-hour trial was based on some reasoning--some studies
> of the target market? Personally, I detest time limits. Feels like a time
> bomb is on my machine.  I would prefer a "Made with Trial version"
> flagrantly stamped on top of all cards until a license is purchased.
>

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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer" ?

2004-09-01 Thread Keith Hutchison
Which in my opinion, is also too small a time frame to evaluate a rich
product.

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Hutchison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer" ?


> RealBasic has ten days.
>
> I would _not_ have made the decision to buy into Runtime Revolution if a
ten
> hour limit had been imposed.
>
> Keith Hutchison
> Balance-Infosystems.Com
>
> postgresql - mysql - dbf
> Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
> http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org
>
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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer" ?

2004-09-01 Thread Keith Hutchison
RealBasic has ten days.

I would _not_ have made the decision to buy into Runtime Revolution if a ten
hour limit had been imposed.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
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shells win32

2004-08-30 Thread Keith Hutchison
Two questions.

1. Is shell supported with Runtime Revolution with win32? (I assume it is )
2. Is the shell synchronous, asynchronous or interactive with RunTime
revolution?

Keith Hutchison
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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Scott

Thanks

The example I ended up with is
http://balance-infosystems.com/applications/tcpcommander/TCPCommanderStack002.rev
I successfully got a list of myob contacts from an middleware application
server written in REALbasic to access a MYOB datafile via ADODB via an MS
access database!
Convoluted I know :-) , but the end result is a list of MYOB contacts from a
win32 resource being displayed on a MacOSX machine, and a happy graphic
designer who doesn't have to grapple with REALbasic...

Many thanks to all who responded.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
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The store...

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
 The Runtime Revolution Online Store is currently offline pending the
release of Revolution 2.5 - please check back soon. ?

When will the store be back on line?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

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Re:Sockets [resolved]

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison

The example I ended up with is
http://balance-infosystems.com/applications/tcpcommander/TCPCommanderStack002.rev
I successfully got a list of myob contacts from an middleware application
server written in REALbasic to access a MYOB datafile via ADODB via an MS
access database!
Convoluted I know :-) , but the end result is a list of MYOB contacts from a
win32 resource being displayed on a MacOSX machine, and a happy graphic
designer who doesn't have to grapple with REALbasic...

Many thanks to all who responded.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Björnke

Thanks for your online support.
Got it working,

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Troy

Thanks for your help.

Got it working.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org
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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Troy

Read and write.
Concept is send in a command via tcpip to a server, process the results on
the Runtime Revolution built client.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org


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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Björnke

Here is the code I have based on your example.
I have breakpoints on each event, however only the first event, mouseup
stops in the debugger.
on mouseUp

open socket "192.168.100.63:4563" with message "socketOpen"

end mouseUp

on socketOpen theIP

write "Hello" to socket theIP with message "messageWritten"

end socketOpen

on messageWritten theIP

close socket theIP

end messageWritten

I know the port is open since I can send a command from a linux command line

extract...

ns2: # PortCommandLiner.mwrb -a 192.168.100.63 -p 4563 -c Hello -v
World

Any further ideas?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org





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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Troy

> No. There is a lot wrong with it, to be blunt.  ;-)

Excellent!! ( Had to start somewhere :-) )

> The first line would probably look like -
> open socket to "127.0.0.1:4563" with message "MYOBContacts"
>
> But - "MYOBContacts" would be a handler in your scripts which the
> socket connection is going to make a callback to. It is the definition
> of a callback you are making there, not the message sent to the socket.
Is defining the call back like defining the name space for the socket?

In realbasic I would do something like this where kjtlTCPCommander is a
socket subclass
which handles all the read and write functions.

  TCPCommander = new kjtlTCPCommander
  TCPCommander.Address = Address
  TCPCommander.Port = Port
  if TCPCommander.Run( Command, Message ) then
AdviseResult( 0, Verbose, Message )
  else
AdviseResult( 1, Verbose, Message )
  end if


> That happens with a "write" command.
>
How do you access the socket object?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Does the following code look correct?

set TheResult to open socket "127.0.0.1:4563" with message "MYOBContacts"
set the contents of ResultField to TheResult

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org
 
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Re: Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi Scott,

> I have a stack that I have made that provides a library for working
> with sockets in Revolution, as well as a front end for the library. 
> I'll upload it to revOnline tonight, and you can see if it does what
> you need.

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org
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Sockets

2004-08-27 Thread Keith Hutchison
Hi,

I am looking for a sample runtime revolution stack that has the following
elements

1. Address Text Box
2. Port Text Box
3. Command Text Box
4. Send Button
5. Response Text Box

eg Address = 192.168.100.63, Port = 4563 Command = MYOBContacts -> Send ->
Receive a long list of MYOBContacts.

I already have this working with REALbasic and our graphic designer desires
to use Runtime Revolution for the gui.

Any pointers?

Thanks

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic
http://balance-infosytems.com http://realopen.org

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