OT: Hardware recommendation for graphics card?
Friend of mine asked for advice on what sort of graphics card to put in a machine he is putting together for his kid. It will be i5 probably, and he wants to get something that will be respectable with photoshop processing. An i3 of mine with onboard graphics was definitely not fast enough for him. Is i5 even enough, should he go for i7? Its not my area of expertise. I am not even sure about the relative contributions of the graphics card and the processor in this. Any suggestions gratefully received. Money is an issue, but he wants something that will do a decent job first and foremost. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux
A solution is to change owner. After chown to my user, it runs and updates the DGH fine. Should not have to do this, however, and it does not solve the problem that every account should be able to use it. I will write to support. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/a-weird-thing-about-registration-Linux-tp3022230p3023235.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [ANN] DGH 1.1.3 is ready for Linux
zyrip, it did not work for me, but chown -R of runrev to my account did. I still don't understand the reregistration problem but will raise it with support. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-DGH-1-1-3-is-ready-for-Linux-tp3022985p3023237.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Chipp, not saying you are wrong, but how would you know? That's the thing that got me, and why I think Alejandro's thought of taking Windows offline is quite sensible. The problem with windows getting compromised is I am not sure you necessarily know when its happened. Most studies on anti malware seem to show that you need more than one, and even then, you don't catch everything. That's why I refuse to disinfect now. It takes forever, and you cannot promise a proper job even then. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3021793.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: LiveCode Linux version: graphic effects issue with the name of a push button
Yes, I get this too. Always assumed it was a feature, just the way it works. How are you modifying the button graphic? What I have done is underlay a graphic with a transparent button not showing its name, but you'll have thought of that. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LiveCode-Linux-version-graphic-effects-issue-with-the-name-of-a-push-button-tp3021185p3021834.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: LiveCode Linux version: graphic effects issue with the name of a push button
Zryip, another thing which is probably a Linux peculiarity, the DGH is asking should it do an upgrade. So you say yes, but then it can't open the file. Its probably permissions. The LC app is installed into /opt, and of course the user does not have write permissions in /opt, which is what the DGH will require. I'll have to try it as root but that's almost certainly what it is. No longer recall exactly how I got it to install in the first place, it was probably by copying into plug-ins as root. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LiveCode-Linux-version-graphic-effects-issue-with-the-name-of-a-push-button-tp3021185p3022209.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
a weird thing about registration, Linux
Has anyone else had this? I installed and registered my 4.5 copy. Works fine. Now, I want to update the Slug's package. It won't let me, most likely because its installed the app in /opt and as user I have no write privileges there. OK, no problem, become root with the root environment, fire up LC. Asks me to register! Think, OK, maybe this is due to having the root environment, so just do su. Same thing. OK, maybe this is something to do with root or root privileges, so log out, log on as another account. Same thing. This is weird. The only point of installing in /opt as opposed to /home/user would be to let all accounts have access to the app in a multi account environment, but it seems in some way to be restricting use of the app to just one account? Cannot be, surely? I can always do it manually, download the package, delete the existing plug in, so that's not a problem. The problem is if registration is restricting to just one account on a machine. To be clear, no-one else uses Rev on my machine, but for various reasons I do use multiple accounts on the same machine myself and can't see why I should have to register not only by machine, but by account. Anyone else getting this? Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux
Yes, there is a .revolution folder. And it does indeed have a cryptic preferences text file in it. But what I'm having trouble understanding is that if I just acquire root permissions, by doing su rather than doing su - Then I retain the same home directory. So if I then fire up rev, why does it not find the preference files? Is it somehow distinguishing between me logged on with and without root privileges? And why on earth would they want to do that? I can just about understand that if I do su -, which places me in the root home directory, it might have some trouble. But I can't understand why if, as myself, I simply acquire root privileges, it should not find all its files? Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/a-weird-thing-about-registration-Linux-tp3022230p3022361.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux
pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ ls Documentation livecode.x86 Resources Runtime Externals Pluginsrevpdfprinter.so Toolset License Agreement.txt Release Notes.pdf revsecurity.so pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ ./livecode.x86 pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ pwd /opt/runrev/livecode-4.5 pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ su Password: :/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# pwd /opt/runrev/livecode-4.5 :/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# ./livecode.x86 :/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# So, if you do su the working directory remains the same. If you are in the working directory without su, Rev starts. If you are in the same working directory after having done su, it asks you to register. Don't get it. The difference of course is that when it works, its identifying the user: pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ ./livecode.x86 as opposed to in the other case, where the prompt is just :/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# ./livecode.x86 So the difference is, it is looking for the registration in a particular user home folder? But in that case, why install in /opt? And why restrict the use to one account on a multi account system? Makes no sense, no-one else does it, do they? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/a-weird-thing-about-registration-Linux-tp3022230p3022581.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux
Nope, same thing. Also su -m -p, or su -p, also same thing. Weird. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/a-weird-thing-about-registration-Linux-tp3022230p3022902.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
I don't know if its safer than current versions of Windows 7 intelligently used. It certainly is a lot safer than earlier versions of XP, used as they came out of the box. One reason is that desktop linux is a small population and so not being targeted. A second is when you do an install, it will obliged you to set up a root account and a lmited user account, and your limited user account will not be able to get at the system files. A typical example of this is with Rev sorry LiveCode - download the new version, try to install it, cannot. Its not executable, and then, it tries to install itself in /opt and you have to be root to do that. A third is that all payload will arrive as being unexecutable, and most of the time marked read-only. One of the things you always have to explain to people when putting in Linux for them is how to change permissions, because if not, one of the standard questions you'll get sooner or later is that someone sent me a word processing file and I cannot edit it. Right, its marked read only. So you contrast that with a situation in which for decades everyone used the internet with administrative prilvileges, all downloaded files arrived market executable. Then we had the saga of Explorer and all its holes, all the Office macros But the real question might be this: if you were to set up your windows install to always work as limited user, and if you enable privacy between user accounts, and finally if you use a dedicated account for all financial transactions and only use that account to go to a very small number of known financial sites, and if you have up to date anti virus, are you any more at risk than on Linux? I don't know. I hear of compromised windows installations all the time. Admittedly they are not Windows 7 mostly, though I heard of one of these the other day. They are not set up like that either, they are the standard default set-up. My feeling is that you probably can keep a windows installation safe, if you work at it, and really keep your protection software up to date. Its just a question of what you want to spend your time doing. For what its worth, my own decision years ago was to do what you are suggesting. I do run XP in a VM for the rare occasions when its necessary, but almost never connect to the net with it. I decided that I could probably keep Windows secure if I worked at it, but that life is too short, and I the big difficulty was how I would know I had succeeded. As to one of those risks on one of your links, guest users, well, of course you set up a guest account on any Linux install, and if people want to use your machine you sign them on as guest. You don't allow the guest group to read any of the other user files, even. You can wipe and recreate the guest account as often as you feel the need. You could do this on windows too, but no-one does. Slax is a good live CD distribution. It might also be worth looking at Vector live and Zenwalk live - they will be faster than most live distributions. I would install Debian Stable if doing a proper desktop installation. Once you start using Linux routinely, you will be surprised how little you need Windows. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3020879.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Yes, the interesting question, don't know the answer, is if you set up windows in the same way Linux is normally set up, limited user accounts and so on, how much more vulnerable would it be? Those hack fests they have every so often suggest that OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3020955.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Yes, it was the annual hackfests. I only know two people with OSX, and neither one has been compromised. Whether the Unix underpinnings make OSX more secure? I think the hacks, but maybe others recall better, were due to applications and privilege escalation. I am really not sure what to conclude about real world safety. If you set up all three systems the same way, with the same basic precautions, would there be any significant differences in security? Don't know. I do know that I have had two people recently, one with 7 and one with XP, ask me for help with compromised systems. I refuse to try to disinfect now, so one who did not want to risk it again got Mandriva, with which he is very happy, in fact, despite my efforts to explain, I suspect he may think its Windows 8 or 9, and the other got an OEM copy of 7, and we will be doing a reformat and reinstall shortly. I do think there is a very different attitude on the part of developers. Linux, you see it in everything, is completely paranoid about security. I recall years ago when the kde dialer went to enormous lengths to take root privileges for the shortest possible and most limited time. Apple I think is quite casual because of years of low risk. Windows seems to have this strange mixture of not taking the most basic precautions, and then layering on all kinds of stuff to protect it. I have never heard of a non-server compromised Linux install. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3021414.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: revweb plug-in for linux
Thanks guys, food for thought. This would probably do most of it, have him able to write it in something he is comfortable with, but also centralize it so as not to proliferate copies. Should have thought of it. Thanks. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revweb-plug-in-for-linux-tp3016951p3018629.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
revweb plug-in for linux
I have been to http://revweb.runrev.com/ and it says, as it has for some years now, that the Linux version is coming shortly. Is it in fact coming? And if so when? I'm asking because I need that kind of functionality one way or another in the next couple of months. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: revweb plug-in for linux
Its a really simple application, its for a guy that I work with. I would really like for him to be able to write it and keep it going himself. I am lately rather seriously in the mode of lessening people's dependence on me for this stuff. What it is, he will have a large map on a big screen. The map will have various links on it, and people will click on them and find stuff of interest, footpaths and routes, local history material, zoom in to photographs and topics. Navigate around. It could run locally. Except that everything else runs on a server, so it would be nice if it were all in one place and accessible from anywhere on the LAN, which is why it would be nice to run it as a browser plug in. Or it could be web pages, except that I will have to learn how to write proper web applications myself, and then its also already clear he is going to have real trouble coming up to speed on that. Whereas I am almost sure he will be able to put something together in Rev and will enjoy learning it. People pick this stuff up very easily with Rev and don't even realize they are learning programming. I spent an hour or so with him just using a sample map, showed him how to put buttons on, how to make them do things, how to make them vanish behind the map but still work. He took to it like a duck to water, and he started immediately to think of all kinds of stuff he could do that he had not thought of trying because he thought it would be very complicated and difficult but now he could see that it wasn't at all. Play bits of sound or movie clips, for instance, or contextual menus. Its what the sadly defunct Media was perfect for, a sort of simple multimedia authoring. Oh well. I guess it either has to be local, or we have to find something else to do it in. Pity. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revweb-plug-in-for-linux-tp3016951p3017556.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Keyboards
Well thanks to this thread at least I found out where the # key went on the UK Mac keyboards, which maybe might come in handly one day. Its surreal to have it be alt + 3 unmarked. How on earth are you supposed to know that? I guess you have to read the Human Interface Guidelines? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Keyboards-tp3007302p3008197.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Mac App Store
To most people, this has never had anything to do with OS choice or with Apple's stock price. It has to do with corporate conduct. It has to do with the following:- 1) Do you want a society in which your access to applications and thus increasingly to media is in the control of a few corporations who make the platforms? Or do you want a world in which you buy the platform, install what you want from where you want, buy, read and watch and listen to what you want from wherever you want? Its the CD model versus the iTunes model. 2) Do you as developer want to have one route to market, an App store run by the device manufacturer, and have him able to eject your stuff instantly on a whim? And then let it back in again on a whim, who knows for how long? The reason the debate now comes up with OSX has nothing to do with that OS in particular, it is that people think, reasonably enough based on the track record, that Apple is starting to move OSX to the iPod and iPad model. They don't trust it. And they think it has serious societal implications. Once again, reasonably enough, given the track record. These are the guys who ban apps based on what you can, but do not have to, use them to download, when the material you allegedly might download is perfectly legal in your jurisdiction, but for some reason, the guys at Apple do not approve of it. They banned Matlab, for Heaven's sake! A version of Ulysses! Corporate control of what you can do with your computer or your ebook reader or your tablet is a threat, probably in the West now emerging as the main threat, to intellectual freedom. This is not OS wars. This is corporate conduct wars. The same or very similar points can be made about Amazon and its ebook format and sales methods. It is perfectly possible that being on the wrong side of that debate may be very profitable for Apple and lead to rising share prices. I doubt it, I think the probable effect of these efforts at control will be to promote hacking and piracy. But even were it a good route to rising profits and stock prices, doesn't make it any righter. And the problem is, Apple always has been evil in this way, but it used not to matter because it was too small for its example to matter. Now it is getting bigger, its a real force in society. So you can no longer say, you don't like it don't buy it. You buy it or not, its influence is profound. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-App-Store-tp3004425p3008464.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Mac App Store
Yes, Richard's post is spot on. They have a track record, and this is how it will start. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-App-Store-tp3004425p3006723.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Keyboards
The Apple corded full USB is very nice. Far better than the Cherry Strait which is a contender also, but the keycaps wear off. Otherwise, Logitech OEM is very good value and everyone really likes it. Or the extreme clickety clack made by PCKeyboards, which if they are into that sort of thing, people also like a lot. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Keyboards-tp3007302p3007583.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Keyboards
I have to say, reluctantly, not being an admirer of Apple or its works, that the latest keyboards, if that's the sort of thing you want, basically do not have any competition. I was using the aluminum usb full one, really came to like it, apart from the irritating keycaps. It is virtually silent, and my initial worries about the angle and RSI turned out to be groundless. Then my partner's keyboard blew up (it was an old Apple one also), so I gave her mine to try, and I could not get it back. I then bought the compact version for her for another office she works in, which is very nice too, it has full sized keys and takes up minimal desk space. I then bought a Cherry Strait for myself, which is really terrible by comparison, much noisier, and as I say the keycaps lose their legends after a very short time. Most disappointing. The real irritation about the Apple keyboards is the keys. Where, you ask yourself is the # key? The layout seems to be neither us nor uk but something horrible in between, so if you are not using an Apple computer you end up writing xmodmap files to get and @ in the right places, and then they do not correspond to what is on the keys. Its the usual story, difference and irritation for its own sake, in a nutshell, everything one detests about Apple. Which is why, despite its being a superior keyboard in itself, I won't be buying another one to replace the Cherry. But like I say, my partner is delighted with them. Of course, she cannot see the xmodmap files I have bought the Logitech OEMs for people who do a lot of typing. professional writers, who did not want to spend much money, and they seem to work very well for them. Solid, not too much effort, not too noisy, last for ever. They are probably the best value of the membrane type. I think if you are not going to spend the money and get a real specialist keyboard, this is the one to go for. I have bought the PCKeyboards one, basically an old IBM buckling spring recreation, for one guy who is an ex typesetter and so as nostalgic for that very positive action. He loves it, but you can hear it in the next room. Professional typists of a certain age really like these. They are not too expensive either, but they are not for everyone. But were I a Mac user (or a lady wanting minimal space on the desktop, a nice keyboard feel, and an elegant look) I would definitely get the corded aluminum one, either the extended or the basic. I know I will never get mine back. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Keyboards-tp3007302p3007696.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Mac App Store
Chipp Walters wrote: Jeez, how long before you have to JAILBREAK your Mac in order to put your own programs on it? I believe it's just around the corner..haven't been wrong yet. We all have to decide, its both a personal thing and a society thing. The personal thing is do we want to do what we want with the devices we have bought, or do we want the people who sold them to us to tell us what we can do. The social thing is, the PC/Smartphone/tabet is moving to becoming the main vehicle by which people get access to content - books, press, etc. The borders between what is an app and what is content are blurring, and increasingly control of the app is a way of controlling the content that app gets for the user. We have to decide whether we want this access to be controlled by corporations, or if we want it to be open. So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will close down OSX, I think Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can. Its what the effect on society will be if that model is generally adopted. By, for instance, the main on-line bookseller, in an era when e-books are the only way to get lots of titles. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-App-Store-tp3004425p3005128.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [ANN]BvG Docu 1.7
Have you tested the increase type size on Linux? It does not seem to work for me. Debian Squeeze and Fluxbox. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-BvG-Docu-1-7-tp3000985p3004334.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [ANN] Data Grid Helper moves your columns
Its a most wise and helpful creature, this Slug, and so I bought it. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Data-Grid-Helper-moves-your-columns-tp3001188p3002478.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: WindowBoundingRect in Linux
I have done set the rect of stack xyz to the screen rect. With Gnome this floats the stack above but touching the task bar, as with all apps meximized, with no overlap. With Fluxbox, the task bar is overlappng and over the stack which occupies the whole screen, and this happens with all apps. With Flux however there are probably some options to unset float over all, but I don't see how you would reproduce the Gnome effect where the stack does not overlap the menu bar. I seem to recall KDE working the same way as Gnome, that would be KDE 3.5. I have not tried KDE4.x with rev. This is debian squeeze. If you want something specific tried, happy to do it. I have just about every WM under the sun installed! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/WindowBoundingRect-in-Linux-tp2993052p2993575.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: WindowBoundingRect in Linux
Yes this is right, it does it with flux on Debian also. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/WindowBoundingRect-in-Linux-tp2993052p2994115.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: WindowBoundingRect in Linux
I do like wmii, but what I keep coming back to for everyday use is Fluxbox, and some of the time ion2. Mostly Fluxbox feels very intuitive and plain. I agree the suckless people are very interesting. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/WindowBoundingRect-in-Linux-tp2993052p2994624.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Linux Tao
Printing and fonts are the big deals. I haven't encountered the slowness in tables, and have never used ODBC. I would check all displays to make sure the fonts fit at different size displays, check revPrintField to make sure it works (it does not for me), check print card, which used to print at different sizes depending on the resolution of the display, so that it did one thing on a 17 inch display and another on a 19 inch one. It is probably wise to restrict oneself to the fonts that come with all distributions. Install the app itself in /opt, but dont put the data files there, they should go in in /home/userx/myapp, and the preferences in /home/userx/.myapp. Also, check with kde as well as gnome. And if they may use different distributions, check with one debian derivative, one slackware derivative and one Red Hat derivative. The most accessible end user distributions for new users are Mandriva One Gnome and PCLinuxOS, which comes with an intelligently done version of kde and has the Mandriva control center. If you want something smaller lighter and faster, either Vector or Salix. Still lighter, Puppy. If you want turnkey, sort of embedded system style, and totally minimalist, Slitaz. If you want minimalist userland in a full featured distro, use openbox or fluxbox as the window manager in any distro. You can get the effect of a turnkey one app appliance that way if you arrange autostart. I have not found a distribution too minimalist for Rev to run on. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Linux-Tao-tp2552556p2654556.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: LiveCode 4.5 and the midsummer (2010) save 60% on revStudio deal
It is always a Faustian pact, using closed source software, especially when it is in rapid development. Rev is perfectly entitled to abandon the Media experiment. It was noble, but evidently it did not work out. I also think its treated the Studio buyers such as myself fairly, it was entitled to change the terms of renewal any time it wanted, and its done so. You pays your money and takes your choice. Python is out there, its free, it has an enormous variety of IDEs and editors, its thoroughly cross platform, and it has a thriving community and innumerable tutorials and textbooks and howtos. But, it is rather a steeper learning curve, depending on where you are coming from. It is really not much different from Hypercard, is it? It is someone else that owns it, and you have really no say in what happens to it. Do not, one might advise, get too dependent on it, unless you really know what you are getting into. The thing about Rev is that there is an inbuilt conflict of interest between two target markets, those who want to develop non-commercially, and need it to be cheap, and those who are successfully developing commercially, and can afford to pay decent fees. In the end, its going to be very hard to reconcile the two sets of needs. They have done their best with the mix and match pricing, but some bits have fallen by the wayside. Pity. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Free-RevMedia-tp2549087p2549166.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] The lessons of Ion
No, I missed out on the fun with vi and ed. I am old enough to remember text only interfaces however and felt that the GUI was a great liberation from them. This was Macs, and for many years I bought into 'ease of use' and HIGs until the GUIs started to get more and more obtrusive and irritating and I began to think about why I was still doing things in some ridiculously complicated way - where were the shorcuts? They were not there, because so much of the GUI we know and love today evolved in an era when there were lots of new users for whom things had to be dumbed down so they could have instant usability. At some point I realized that it is worth spending a few hours learning something unfamiliar in order to go three times as quickly and with much less irritation at the end of it. The interesting thing about Ion is that it is not obscurantist, after only a few days, although certainly it starts out feeling that way. Its also an interface that is definitely post GUI. It is not an attempt to get rid of the mouse. Its a different approach to the relationship between the OS and applications. In a funny way, there is something early Mac like about it, in the sense that the author has looked at the interface from the point of view that what the OS interface must do is get out of the way and let you at the applications, not make you click all the time in all these nesting menus as if you were a four year old with a short attention span for learning. Why do we accept that you have to learn how to use spreadsheets and word processors and photo editors and programming languages, but think that everyone should be able to pick up a computer and use it without learning anything, and then be forced to carry on using it the same way on day 300 as they did on day 1? To get everything you need done in Ion only takes a dozen key combinations. Most of what you need can be done with three or four. It does depend on the applications working graphically as they always did. But the OS interface and all its widgets and windows and clicking through stuff just vanishes. It is not like the extreme ones like ratpoison either where you virtually have no mouse. You do use the mouse in Ion, but only for a few OS things that its best for. So you just memorize the key combinations. it only takes an hour. Why is that so awful? Iceweasel, Icedove and so on in Debian? Well, you probably know, its to do with how open the branding is and what license it comes with. I have too much respect for the Debian guys to argue very much about it, if they do it, they must have good reasons. You have to give Ion a fair run to have the AHA experience. And anytime you get sick of it, you can flip to Gnome with a logout. Try it. But try it for long enough to have that moment. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-The-lessons-of-Ion-tp2544524p2545647.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting started with databases
Sorry, sloppy, I meant tab delimited. I do tend to wrongly say csv and automatically assume that tab delimited will be understood. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Getting-started-with-databases-tp2540312p2543958.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[OT] The lessons of Ion
The interesting thing about ion is that it makes you think really hard about what is ease of use, what is user friendly, what about those famous laws, the HIG, and the one about where your points of clicking ought to be that I always forget the name of because I hate it so much. Here is how Ion2 works. It is sort of tangentially relevant because if you were packing a one app OS, and you wanted a one app window manager, basically an embedded Rev app, ion would be one way to do it. As long as you do not have too many new windows overlapping, however. You start out looking at a totally blank screen with a top border which says 'empty frame' at the top. It is also totally black except this border, which is a quite attractive shade of blue/grey, with white lettering on it. There are no clues what to do next. You are an insider or have a crib sheet, and so you know that F1 brings up a man page, F2 opens a terminal (the second most important thing a guy needs in his interface), and F3 lets you launch an app by name, which is a nice to have but not essential, because real men launch from a terminal, of course. So lets say you go ahead, and you type in icewe followed by a tab. It will complete to iceweasel, which is the Debian name for firefox (yes, you had to know that), and when you hit enter, firefox launches and occupies the entire screen. OK, you think, how about mail? So you hit F3 again, now you type in kmail, hit enter, and up pops your email. In a tab, also occupying the entire screen. Now you have an idea. Why don't we split the screen? So now you do alt+k s. instantly, your pane is split into two equal parts, vertically, one like the first, black with nothing in it, the other with your two tabs. You want to resize? alt+r and use the arrow keys. You want to kill a panel? Just right click in the border and close. Same thing for a tab. You are geting bored and desperately want the full Debian menu? F12 brings it up. It sounds impossible, and rather ridiculous. But here is what is amazing. There comes a point at which all this suddenly becomes automatic as a way of working. You do not think about it or look for your crib sheet, you just enter a few characters, and things happen. You never have one window behind another, nothing ever overlaps. You get used to splitting up your panes just so, for instance a calculator always open in the top right of your three or four. A file manager under it. Then the main window. A terminal someplace of course. There are no, zero widgets. No taskbar. No clock or date. Nothing to tell you about the status of the network. What is F2 for, after all? Presumably one of your little panes someplace is always running a terminal, so who needs widgets? There are not even any borders. All you see is apps and a tiny little bar at the top telling yoiu which tab you are in by going a paler shade of blue grey. I have to tell you, this is an experience to make you think and scratch your head and think some more. If Apple were right, it should not work. If Gnome were right, it should not work. And on day 1 it does not. But on day n, it not only works, it feels just perfectly right and automatic, your fingers just do things, and you forget you are using Ion, its just how things are done here. Try it. You will never feel the same about HIGs and that guy and his silly law again. Fitts he might have been. And you will never again confuse being easy to use on day 1 for the ignorant with being easy to use when you know it well and are experienced. No, they are completely different things. Ion is a bit under resourced at the moment, as Richard pointed out. But for the deprived minimalist, there are other alternatives, most notably from the nosuck school of software, wmii, awesome, and a couple more of that ilk. If you are interested enough to try ion, have a look at wmii and its associates too. Anyone with a serious interest in man computer interfaces will find it worth the effort. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Rev on two minimalist Linux distros
I have finally fired up Rev Media 4.0 on two minimalist Linux distributions as a start on the effort to discover whether the problems are really due to not having all the necessary files installed, and whether they are due to the mulifarious nature of Linux. I began with Slitaz and Tiny Core, the latter of which gives new meaning to the expression 'minimalist'. It is gui userland Linux system in 11 Mb. If we still had floppies, it would just about be deliverable on a handful. It uses almost none of the standard components. All applications have to be installed from repository. Both of these distros run in memory, so they are super fast. If you do this at home with Tiny Core, you should probably go with 3.1, just out. I used 3.0. It has 2.6 kernel, BusyBox, Tiny X, FLTK graphical user interface and flwm window manager. Without getting too far into the recherche details, this is not your standard distro. This is as minimalist as X windows can get. Get it here: tinycore_3.1.iso The other distribution is Slitaz, less minimalist, this has a whole 30 Mb and runs OpenBox, so a standard GUI, though not one most folks here may be familiar with. It comes with XOrg and LXDE bits and pieces. Midori as web browser, leafpad editor. It is a usable desktop out of the box, unlike Tiny Core. Get it here: slitaz-3.0.iso I did not use these in VMs, but on a spare bare metal machine we now have available. There is not going to be any difference if you run from CD in live mode, or if you install on hard drive, since in either case they both load directly to memory. I don't use VMs for this stuff in the interests of eliminating as many variables as possible. I made no modification whatever to Slitaz, but on Tiny Core, using the terminal, was unable to cd to the USB drive on which I had placed Media. I therefore installed PCManFM from the repository, which brought down a modest bunch of dependencies, including Gtk2, all of which went by in a flash. I didn't make a note of the others but can find out what they were if anyone is interested. It would be nice to know what people think should be tested for to make this rigorous. What I did was two things. First, some minimal exercise of the IDE. Created a new mainstack, dragged objects onto it, resized them. This worked fine. The font (yes, singular is intended) could be resized fine. The dictionary displayed and worked fine. You can alternate between IDE and browse mode. Buttons work. Second thing was, when I had a stack, I then moved it to another virtual desktop, popped over to the virtual desktop and clicked it. It instantly went back to the first one, where Media was open. So virtual desktops do not work here. It does not look like the problems could be missing dependencies. Rev seems to work exactly the same if its in one of these totally minimalist environments, including with Tiny Core which has out of the box almost nothing the big ones have except what you absolutely have to have to run the kernel and a command line, or if it is full fledged and bloated like Gnome or KDE. The environment I have found where Rev doesn't work at all is Ion2 window manager. This is actually a very nice working environment, its becoming my favorite. Its a tiling and tabbing WM. You have tiles open, and your apps take up the entire tile, in a tab. The tiles sit side by side on the desktop. It handles pop-up windows in an unusual way, they all appear at the bottom of the tile you are in. Rev does not like this, and it crashes. When you get used to Ion and know the keyboard shortcuts, its simply superb, fast, intuitive and very easy. You start apps from the keyboard with auto fill to help. Everything else seems to work with Ion, so this may be an indication that Rev is not standards compliant on the desktop issue. So, tell me what else people want to see exercised, and I will do it, this is just a start. And next week I will hopefully have time to do a full scale slackware install and bash around with that. I am not all that lively lately, and the latest is, have a proper phone system to install in addition to a server. But we will get to it, we really will. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rev on two minimalist Linux distros
Richmond, I am just trying to find out if there ARE any dependencies of note that will not be included in most any distro. I think the answer is probably no based on this. I do not expect anyone to use these distros in anger, except for embedded systems. I also wanted to know, were any of the problems extinguished by lack of apps and libraries. The answer to that one seems to be no. I think the answer is, the problems are intrinsic to the basic way Rev on Linux has been implemented. As for Ion, I do not think Rev should be made to work with all WMs. I think it should be standards compliant, and if it is, it will work on all. I think Ion is a fair test of this. Make it work on Ion, and it will be standards compliant and will work on all. If its not standard compliant, then, as now, it will work partly, and on some. What we want is standards compliance. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Rev-on-two-minimalist-Linux-distros-tp2541646p2541893.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rev on two minimalist Linux distros
It's a nice work, but I'm not sure it's the best choice for testing standards. No, agreed. Or rather, admitted! But Rev should however work with tiling window managers, as long as everything else does with them. If it did, it would probably do virtual desktops right as well. No, this is not a big deal, the surprising thing was how well it works with almost nothing standard installed except Gtk2. That is on tiny core. So whatever is going wrong, it cannot be missing dependencies, can it? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Rev-on-two-minimalist-Linux-distros-tp2541646p2542749.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] O'Reilly eBook deal of the day (cookbooks for 9 USD)
Andre, thanks so much for this. I picked up Bash, Python and Web. Now it is only a question of finding the energy to work through them. As the poet said (or rather the parody of him said): As we get older, we do not get any younger... Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-O-Reilly-eBook-deal-of-the-day-cookbooks-for-9-USD-tp2540590p2542834.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Getting started with databases
Bob, are you saying, just the tables...? So why not export the tables as csv? Am I missing something to do with relations? Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Getting-started-with-databases-tp2540312p2542837.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Linux Mint rolling release
http://jimlynch.com/index.php/2010/09/09/linux-mints-debian-delight/ Another review, more of an explanation for why. In lots of ways, Mint is Debian for the rest of us. Or as Lynch puts it, Debian on steroids. I like Debian straight up, but can see the attractions of grafting on the Ubuntu userland, or bits of it, onto it, for less minimalist tastes. This version sounds like the best of all worlds. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Linux-Mint-rolling-release-tp2532509p2534152.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[OT: Linux Market Share]
http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html Saw this today. Martin is an intelligent well informed writer. Its admittedly OT but maybe worth posting in view of recent discussions about the potential for the Linux flavor of Rev. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[OT] Linux Mint rolling release
This may also be of interest to some of you or your customers. The problem with Ubuntu has always been that it is not a rolling release. Mint is a well regarded flavor of Ubuntu. Well now the Mint guys have now released a Debian based version of Mint, and it is a rolling release. http://www.webupd8.org/2010/09/linux-mint-based-on-debian-released-and.html May need a couple more point releases to get really smooth, but they will be there if they are not already in a couple of months. Mint is a good team. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution's Bad Boy opens his big fat mouth.
Hey, this is really great news. Looking forward to getting my hands on this one! Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-s-Bad-Boy-opens-his-big-fat-mouth-tp2401254p2401835.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Dead Video and no keyboard
Richmond, sincere apologies if the slightly flip tone was upsetting in difficult circumstances. We are struggling with our own expensive hardware issues right now, so I know the feeling. All the same, later and at leisure, the serious point is that it may no longer be worth struggling with old hardware given how much things have moved on since PPC days. You can Hackintosh relatively cheap and lowish end modern hardware, including Atom, and if you really want or need to run OSX, and can't afford the current line of Mac boxes, if it were me, I'd do it in a flash. We recently had to get a server, and this was an eye opener. We were going to recycle an old desktop. But instead, we bought for a couple hundred euros a new server, roughly the size of a thick paperback. 15 watts consumption, 500G disk, and it comes with Debian server already installed. And our old desktops are of a later generation than the PPCs. There is a point in computers where old hardware makes no sense, in terms of stress and reliability. Unlike with old motorbikes! A friend rides a fabulous old Velocette, as shiny and polished as the day it left the showroom, and as marvelous engineering as ever. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Dead-Video-and-no-keyboard-tp2332916p2334038.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Dead Video and no keyboard
Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote: Is this the point where I try to find a computer engineer? No, this is the point at which you make a Hackintosh! Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Dead-Video-and-no-keyboard-tp2332916p224.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Printing Field contents in RunRev Enterprise 4.5.5
If YOU were wanting to print the text from a Field named Results what specifically would YOU script... Well, you did ask! Stop struggling with revPrintField etc. Just export the content to a text file, then call some other program to print it. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Printing-Field-contents-in-RunRev-Enterprise-4-5-5-tp2326353p2326452.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [RevServer + Rev on Linux tips] Trouble connecting with database or why we should stick to lower case.
Yes, excellent! From a long list of things the exclusively linux user takes so for granted that it never occurs to him he needs to explain them to anyone else. Good one! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RevServer-Rev-on-Linux-tips-Trouble-connecting-with-database-or-why-we-should-stick-to-lower-case-tp2308300p2308756.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [RevServer + Rev on Linux] Checking if you have the needed libraries
I'm not knocking it, this is indeed absolutely the right way to track down and fix dependencies. But it would be a mistake to think this is the source or the main source of the Rev on Linux problems. You can pass the test, have all the dependencies, which I always have had, and you will still have the problems. Yes, by all means give the info to people who have Linux issues and don't know about ldd. But with the caveat that if you are using any modern mainstream distro, missing dependencies are not likely to be the source of the problems. If, and I think its a big if, if there were definite problems that have been reported that can be tied to particular libraries being missing, that would great, it would lead to instant solutions. But I don't know of any. Maybe others do? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RevServer-Rev-on-Linux-Checking-if-you-have-the-needed-libraries-tp2305194p2306026.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [RevServer + Rev on Linux] Checking if you have the needed libraries
OK, I'm corrected. But still, is there any evidence that cut and paste problems in the editor, inability to handle fonts properly, issues with printing, mutliple desktop issues, any evidence any of them are due to library or dependency compatibility issues? Maybe they are - in that case lets have a list. The problem at the moment is that in the desktop version of Rev for Linux (I accept that the server issues are different) you can follow Andre's instructions, satisfy yourself you have no dependency problems, and then still not be able to print or use fonts properly. I am delinquent on hacking away at Slackware. Life and age. My goodness, how we slow down as we age. Get ready for it folks, it will not be fun. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RevServer-Rev-on-Linux-Checking-if-you-have-the-needed-libraries-tp2305194p2307229.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo: 1st naive question.
It seems to be an alternative to Rev, not a complement to it. When fully featured, you will write code in a different IDE, and it will run on any OS that has an HTML5 compatible browser. That is, it will run on all but hobbyist OSs, and it will run in all mainstream browsers. You will not need a copy of Rev or Media to either run the resulting code, or to write it. It seems to be a response to the banning of Rev apps from the Apple App Store, but it does not offer any way of bypassing that and getting Rev apps onto iPhone or iPad. The response is to move to a different programming language and environment which does not require the App Store for distribution. There seem to be two rather loose connexions to Rev. The first appears to be that you can port your Rev application automatically, at least in part, to this new language. One can imagine that automated ports from other languages will appear also in HTML5 authoring tools. The choice of Rev as the first to port seems to come from its origins in the banning of this particular language and the consequent disappointment of the Rodeo authors. The second is what one might call a marketing connexion: those most disappointed by the banning of Rev from the App Store are a natural early adopter market for a product which will allow programs to be written for iPad and iPhone, which do not require membership of the App Store. The concept of easy to write cross platform HTML5 apps is very interesting, but its an alternative to Rev, its not an extension to it. It would be a very interesting addition to Rev if instead of compiling for the Web, and for plugin enabled browsers, one were able to compile to HTML5. Doubtless that day will come. At that point, the two languages will be competitors. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Rodeo-1st-naive-question-tp2301710p2302012.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Rodeo: 1st naive question.
Ian Wood-3 wrote: On 26 Jul 2010, at 10:22, Richmond wrote: Ahah; what I don't understand is why RunRev don't seem to have a problem about something that could be seen as a direct competitor advertising on their use-list: Probably because it's powered by On-Rev/revServer under the hood... ;-) Ian___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution If I understand this correctly, its only in the short term. Longer term it runs locally or on any web server. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Rodeo-1st-naive-question-tp2301710p2302273.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Mac vs Win partisanship is unnecessary
There is Gnome-Mag in Linux. Never used it, but it was part of Gnome's effort to be visually impaired compliant. It seems to install automatically as part of the Debian distro, so its probably in Ubuntu also, if not, must be in the repositories. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-vs-Win-partisanship-is-unnecessary-tp2297989p2300955.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Mac vs Win partisanship is unnecessary
Wise comment. Mac and Windows seems from my perspective to be basically a matter of personal preference with Apple being the more restrictive of the two in the ways in which Open Source people care about. Its Coke and Pepsi, both having too much sugar, one a bit more than the other. Open Source is genuinely different, and reasonable people can differ, and differ strongly, with its approach and values and its aims for the role of computing and media in our society. This is the source of some genuine tensions for Rev. But Curry is right, one needs to keep the issues with Rev or Rodeo to the level of what makes business sense for everyone. It is very interesting that one result of the WebKit approach for Rodeo is that it puts all OSs on the same level as far as accessing the applications once written. The thing I remain cautious about with regard to iPhone and iPad is what Apple's ultimate reaction will be when and if webkit based apps, from Rodeo and other sources, start to bypass the app store on any scale. Maybe they never will, maybe the store is well enough established by now. Maybe corporate vertical market applications are where the money is, anyway. Jerry also takes the view there will be nothing they can or will do about it, even if it happens. Maybe so. The Rodeo vision however is genuinely cross platform, with a lot of the heavy lifting done by stuff that is out there already in the form of standards. And when one thinks about Firefox and Explorer in this context, they are in quite different situations, though neither one is webkit: Firefox could change, since webkit is OSS and so is webkit. Explorer obviously could not. After all, Gnome changed with the new Galeon. This looked like a significant development. You may not have been around during the wars of religion between Gnome and KDE? Gnome were the purists on OSS, and issued fatwas on KDE because KDE were using Trolltech development environment, QT, which Gnome considered to be not authentically open. Which in some ways it really was not. The counter argument was that Gtk was unusable. All this eventually got amicably resolved when QT became open beyond reproach. Even so, for Gnome to adopt webkit looks like an interesting development which lends support to the Rodeo peoples argument about it being the browser, not the OS, that you need to write for. The sleeper may be Apple. The business model they have in mind is not one where apps are written once and run equally on all OSs and desktop environments, and where people access whatever content and apps they want from whatever source they choose, any more than that is the model MS have in mind. But that is the logical end point of Rodeo and similar products. We'll see. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-vs-Win-partisanship-is-unnecessary-tp2297989p2298273.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT-Rodeo] Still waiting for the aha moment
If you can afford to drop your own money on overpriced hardware, then I suppose you aren't in any kind of place to judge what I have to do to survive. This has been part of the reason I have installed Linux for some people. One case in particular comes to mind, a thoroughly infected machine where the shop charge of $100 to clean it up was in conflict with feeding the family. Its easy to underestimate these considerations if one is comfortable. I have never done it, have no intention of doing it, and don't live in the US, but if it were genuinely a case of feeding the family, I would hackntosh for my own use right away. It seems that you get the upgrade version of Leopard, which is heavily discounted but can be used for clean installs. Get compatible hardware, and it seems to be perfectly doable. Dual booting seems to be possible, but more complicated. At that point you are installing a retail copy of software you have bought on a machine you own, admittedly in breach of EULA, which is a civil matter. The legal situation on copyright as long as you do not sell on is not clear. There are protections for this sort of activity in the copyright law, see section 117 of Title 17. But it might be simpler and a better use of the time to just use Rodeo from a webkit browser, even given the limitations, if that is the only objective! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Rodeo-Still-waiting-for-the-aha-moment-tp2297501p2298292.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy paste trouble...
apt-get remove glipper apt-get install klipper Done. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/confirmed-recipe-for-linux-copy-paste-trouble-tp2297662p2298358.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT-Rodeo] Still waiting for the aha moment
Sarah, I guess actually that you won't be limited to webkit based browsers, as long as they fully support HTML5, is that not right? Its a question of supporting an open standard. So the answer to the original question might be, right now you need a webkit based browser for editing and app creation, but in future, you'll be able to use any compliant browser, and one assumes that will include (maybe it does even now) Firefox. Have you tried with Firefox? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Rodeo-Still-waiting-for-the-aha-moment-tp2297501p2298446.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy paste trouble...
All the same, it cannot just be parcellite (never heard of that before) because my crash on cut and paste occurred in a totally untweaked Debian new install, so it must be using glipper as the clipboard. The thing to do might be, replace parcellite with glipper, then reproduce Andre's result, then replace glipper with klipper and try to reproduce his result. Weird stuff. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/confirmed-recipe-for-linux-copy-paste-trouble-tp2297662p2298543.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy paste trouble...
-- revPrintField needs to work properly - permit font choices and formatting. This is a major hassle, what you would be able to do with it, you're instead obliged to export the file and then hack around in awk or something similar. -- virtual desktops, ie the ability to put different windows of the app on different desktops and work with them there and have them stay put. This isn't a big deal for Richmond, but it is for me, its how I work. And any regular Linux user will be nonplussed about not being able to do this. On the font resize, I had wondered whether the new geometry manager applied to the home stack would take care of this, but apparently not. Too bad. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/confirmed-recipe-for-linux-copy-paste-trouble-tp2297662p2298981.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy paste trouble...
That is brilliant! Cannot imagine how you ever thought of trying that. I'll fire up Gnome and have a go. Much of today was spent struggling with trying to decode a .mny file for someone. Hopeless. You cannot even go through it and extract the ascii. It will no longer open in any of the versions of money he has. When you repair the file, it tells you it is perfectly fine. Then it declines to open the one it allegedly repaired it to. Nothing will import or convert it. Its at moments like this that you understand the point of open formats. By way of an apology for being a bit behind on the slackware testing. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/confirmed-recipe-for-linux-copy-paste-trouble-tp2297662p2297698.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT-Rodeo] Still waiting for the aha moment
Webkit came about like this. KDE, who make a Linux desktop environment complete with office apps etc, developed a rendering engine as the basis for their browser, called Konqueror. It was open source.. Apple then took this rendering engine and made it the basis of Safari. There was tooing and froing about whether Apple was passing its enhancements back, this was eventually more or less resolved, and Webkit is now both the basis for Safari and for open source browsers. Which would include Midori, Chrome, Konqueror, and even the Gnome browser, Galeon. Now, what can you do as a Windows user? if I understand it properly, you can write Rodeo pages in Windows as long as you use a webkit based browser to connect to the online authoring tool. This does not include Explorer or Firefox, but there is no shortage. This would apply to Linux too. You cannot use the Mac based editor which Sarah has written, unless you either buy yourself a Mac or make yourself a hackintosh. Which is pretty easy to do, not that I have any interest in doing it other than the intellectual challenge maybe, but there are too many of those already. But you can still write Rodeo apps. You can then connect to those web pages with any webkit based browser from any OS. So its not really mac-centric, and not even Rev centric, if I have understood it properly. They will shortly introduce the ability to run those pages on your own web server, again through a webkit based browser. You should also be able to write web apps that run from your own device, again once they implement the ability to run from any web server. Correct me if wrong on this very last point? The hope and belief is that this means that you can write apps for the iPhone and iPad. Because you are targeting abilities built into the browser, and you do not need to go through Apple's app store to get them to the public. Apple can no longer tell you and your buyers that swimsuit photos are politically incorrect this year. Will it work, and is it interesting? Yes on the last count. Someone asks to what extent this allows you to port all the functionality of a Rev app to the web. This is something I am not clear about, and it would be nice to know. It is letting you compose apps within the limits of the webkit engine. It is also letting you translate the gui part of a Rev app into standard web pages. But it does not seem to be porting the whole application to a web site, not even a webkit one. Its doing part of that, and delivering part of the functionality of the app. If you want the guts of the thing, you write the rest of it in the Rodeo editor. Is that pretty much right? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Rodeo-Still-waiting-for-the-aha-moment-tp2297501p2297744.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT-Rodeo] Last minute call to get onboard with pre-realase conditions!
Yes, this is indeed a complete showstopper, there is no Mac hardware in the future of quite a lot of us. Its very interesting, in particular the Transfer package is very interesting, but nothing is interesting enough to move one back into that particular ghetto. On the future of web apps on Apple hardware, Jerry is certain that the fact that they are developing for webkit means that Apple will not be able to bar this, even if it turns out to be a way of providing users with apps that bypass the app store, and so means they have a motive to bar apps written with it. We'll find out together. Apple is ingenious, in control of their OS and all apps, and ruthless with it. The app store and associated control over what the users do is central to the whole business model. He may be right that they will be unable to bar it, but the chances are that they will give it a very serious try. If you look at the history of webkit, the communications back to the community from Apple, since it forked KHTML, compatibility issues, you will find room for skepticism. If you look at the history of attempted content censorship via tha app store, and that is only the ones we know about, because most of that is censored too, you'll not doubt their commitment to control. But hey, we'll see. It will be most interesting. Meanwhile, one assumes that it means that Rodeo apps will run in Chrome or Konqueror or Galeon on Linux? Now that is interesting. Its just a pity one cannot write them in the OS they will run on. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Rodeo-Last-minute-call-to-get-onboard-with-pre-realase-conditions-tp2293199p2295075.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT-Rodeo] Last minute call to get onboard with pre-realase conditions!
Sarah, could you explain exactly what one can do from Linux. Edit the app using another editor. Then load it to the Rodeo server. Then make a standalone that will run under webkit in Linux? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Rodeo-Last-minute-call-to-get-onboard-with-pre-realase-conditions-tp2293199p2295505.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Playing a movie in Linux
Richmond, presumably you used the command to set which the movie player is? You did set videoClipPlayer and gave the full path of the executable? I've never done this, but it sounds like it ought to work. Yes, the instructions in the dictionary on what is the default do seem a little out of time. Maybe the answer is, go out to shell and do the command in the shell. If you do call it from a shell script, you will not have to give the absolute path, just the command with the appropriate command line parameters should do. On what the default player is, it will likely depend on the DTE as well as the distro. With Gnome, it will be mplayer. With a KDE install, it will be the KDE player. A bit like, if you are using Evolution for email, it will open the Gnome browser unless you set the properties and tell it different. If you are using kmail, even on a basically Gnome system, it will open links in Konqueror. We don't often do video, but the other day someone filmed a clip, copied it from camera to desktop, and it it simply played as soon as we opened it without any further intervention. So if you do use the shell, it should work fine. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Playing-a-movie-in-Linux-tp229p2292957.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev, Linux, Multiple desktops
OK, this is how to reproduce it. Fire up Rev, start a new stack, put a button on it. Now open the script editor, the property inspector, the dictionary. Send the dictionary to desktop A, the property inspector to desktop B. Now use either the dictionary, property inspector or the editor. What should happen is that all the windows reassemble themselves on just one desktop, one over the other. If you do the same thing in Open Office, you'll find that the help stays open, stays in the same desktop, and you can move to and fro. I no longer write big complicated spreadsheets, thank heaven, but if you ever do, this is invaluable. You can have the full help application on one desktop and what you're working on, on another, and so all the syntax of all those functions is instantly available. What happens with Rev is that the functionality to move windows around is there and working fine, what goes wrong is the next step, the ability to use those windows where they are, and have them stay put. But if you've found a way, or a configuration, which allows this, that would be truly wonderful! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Linux-Multiple-desktops-tp2291891p2292195.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
They're a small outfit with limited resources, and to some extent we are in this together. I agree, its not optimal, but rolling up our sleeves is probably the way to make progress. Maybe there should be some buyer caveats around the Linux version marketing materials also, to manage expectations. We have to give it a shot and see how Rev manages to respond. Here's hoping. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2292198.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev, Linux, Multiple desktops
This is on Fluxbox, Debian Squeeze, six desktops. I did the recipe just to verify, and crashed Flux and logged out, which is sort of amazing. What happened was, all the bits of Rev did indeed reassemble themselves onto one desktop. Then, in Fluxbox, you can flip through the desktops by rotating the mousewheel. Firefox was open, and kmail, in different desktops. I flipped the wheel, fairly fast, and bang, Flux crashed and we were back to the login window (which at the moment is GDM). Its not all that surprising, there is clearly something amiss with how Rev handles X Windows. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Linux-Multiple-desktops-tp2291891p2292204.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Here is how I would go about tracking down these things. Just to recap, the things we are seeking to track down are these four: -- not all and only installed fonts are visible and useable -- revPrintField does not work properly -- virtual desktops don't work -- editor slows down, freezes and crashes Are there other priority areas? There are other niggles, but are there other real basic functionaliry showstoppers? My suggestion for going about tracking this down is quite different from what most people here will instinctively want to do. The general view here is that Linux is an enormously complex mix of components, so the thing to do is pick some large general purpose distro and standardize on it. I do not believe this to be the solution. In fact, it is a wrong diagnosis of the problem. This approach, which regards each distro as a distinct OS, is actually part of the problem. Were I in charge of the effort I would proceed in EXACTLY THE REVERSE WAY. I would seek to find the minimum installation set, and within that, the one closest to the way packages are released by the developer, that will allow the reproduction of the problems. You can argue about which distro will most readily meet these requirements, but if you want to start from something fairly simple and mainstream and not start compiling the whole thing from scratch, the contender that leaps out at you is Slackware. I accept, there could be an argument for going even further down, like Slitaz or TinyCore. Maybe that is worth a try as well, but they are not, as Slackware is, deliberately as untweaked as possible. So I would propose doing a minimal install of slackware, with nothing but the basic system and the most basic window manager, probably OpenBox. Maybe Metacity without Gnome desktop environment, if you want to be as close as possible to mainstream what it will have to run on. But no Firefox, no OpenOffice, no apps at all. If you can reproduce the problems on this sort of minimal install, then you are much closer to the source, because you have basically ruled out all distro specific issues. If not, then start to add stuff until you do get the problems. I understand that on this list there is a, well, a precoccupation, with Ubuntu as a distro for use. This is not about use however, this is about a tool to get to the source of the problems. I'm prepared to do serious work on this, but am not capable of writing patches to the IDE myself, and before getting started on the project, would welcome comment, and would like us to have an agreed approach, so what do you all think of the above? It would also be nice to have some feedback from Edinburgh, to the effect that given contributions from us, they will do their bit also. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
Yes, wise post. Sad but wise. We all get to the same place on this in the end, the trick is to try to remain both forceful and good humored while getting there! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2291044.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
There is no Linux per se. Linux is like blocks, modules that people snap together at will. Without a known set of variables, Rev is very likely to fail in some areas depending on which software the current user has installed. Jacque, I don't think this is either true, or a useful explanation of why, for instance, the editor crashes in my plain minimalist install of Debian on cut and paste. If it were true, then lots of applications that do cut and paste, which is just about all of them, would crash. The fact is, they do not. If it were true, then it would be almost impossible for virtual desktops to work on all applications, but they do work. Not by the way any sort of exotic way of working, commonplace for the mainstream Linux user. Commonplace in fact for ordinary users, once you have showed them a few times how to use virtual desktops. The way to look at this thing is to figure out what Rev is doing differently from other apps. What exactly is Rev doing with its editor, which is not a terribly complicated sort of functionality, which makes this editor, unlike any other, slowdown and freeze? How exactly has Rev implemented the IDE so that you can't put the property inspector on one desktop and the editor on another? How is Rev relating to the system print functionality that makes revPrintField not work? Where is it getting its font lists from? Its not the same place as every other app gets them. Rev's problem is not that it is being installed with deep system functionality into a complex multifarious environment, and some of this deep functionality is understandably failing to work. Rev's problem is that in very simple functions, not deep at all, it is not relating to identical and unchanging features of the OS functionality in the same way that all the other apps do. As an analogy, it would be like writing your app so its installer failed to put a starter icon on the desktop in Windows, and then saying, Oh Well, the problem is no app store, people just install whatever they want on Windows, so its an unpredictable environment. Yes, it is, but that is not the problem, the problem is how you wrote your installer to do something very simple and access very basic functionality. We need to stop making excuses! Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2291076.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
If anyone wants to follow along with Slackware, this is where to get the isos. Only the first three CDs should be needed. http://spheniscus.uio.no/pub/linux/slackware/slackware-13.1-iso/ Be aware though, this is not exactly Linux as she is known today, this is not the land of graphical installers, automatic and safe disk partitioning and automatic dependency checks. This is the command line and editing config files. Kind of fun to get back to it. I am proposing to shrink the partitions on my usual machine and do a clean install into free space, then get going. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Personal-suggestion-for-fixing-the-Linux-situation-tp2291027p2291620.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
The point is diagnostic. If we knew the answer, there would be no need to do this. We need to find the lowest level at which the problems occur. Or don't occur. At the moment, we have no idea if its Linux, Gnome, Ubuntu. We have no idea if its the basic packages as they come from the developer, or the distro tweaks. I want to know exactly when the problems happen, and when they do not. I want to get to something completely stripped down, where maybe they will not happen, and then add stuff in a controlled way till they do. Its not macho. its called scientific method. Anyone with a better idea, tell us. So far in year upon year, no-one seems to have. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Personal-suggestion-for-fixing-the-Linux-situation-tp2291027p2291851.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Let me explain again. You take the most minimalist possible Linux. As little gui tools as possible. You take the distro that has the least possible tweaking of any applications. Then you try to find out: do virtual desktops work here? Are all fonts visible here? Does the editor crash here? If it works fine, you have learned something important. You know that it is something at a higher level than this that is causing the problem. So you start adding stuff, one thing at a time. Eventually you can tie it down. Or it may be that in Slackware, it just works. Then you know it is in other distro tweaks and customizations. This is not about what we use for goodness' sake! I don't use Slackware any more (though I would for servers). This is about systematically tying down what it is that is causing the problems, going through and eliminating possible causes one after the other. I don't mind the command line and editing text files at all, but its not something that I want to do in my regular working system. But there is no other way of getting as close to bare metal as you can, and there is no other way of eliminating most of the possible sources of the problems than getting down to bare metal. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Personal-suggestion-for-fixing-the-Linux-situation-tp2291027p2291864.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
I'm not (publicly at least) telling Kevin how to run his business. I am saying to him, I bought it, and I want it to work. That is an entirely legitimate point to make, first privately, then publicly if that has no results. Are native Linux apps distro and installation specific? No. Are they compiled individually? Yes. You can download the source code for gedit and compile it on any Linux installation with the classic configure make make install We do not have a version of gedit which is tweaked for ion2 or Debian. We have a version of gedit that is written to be compileable so as to run on any Linux. Installation differs from distro to distro, because the various files may be in different places, and they use different package managers. The source code is the same however. But this specific install issue is not what is going wrong with Rev. It is not being released in an apt or rpm version for installation, its being released as a universal binary that should just run from the home directory, from /etc - from anyplace. Take RealBasic. You download a package. From memory, they have deb, rpm and universal binary versions. I picked the universal binary, put it in my home directory, fired it up, and it runs. If its correctly written why wouldn't it? If RealBasic can do it, Rev can do it. We need to accept the real situation. This is not about whether some of us are suited to a particular programming language more than another. Rev suits me perfectly, when it works. Its about whether core functionality of a particular programming language works as required and as advertised. Its not about standardizing on one distro. Python does not have to standardize on one distro, gedit does not, RealBasic does not, neither does Rev. The task is to run on Linux. That's the standard. If it don't run on a plain vanilla install of Debian or Suse or Red Hat, it ain't a product. It is not that Rev works perfectly, but only on one distro that it has standardized on. It does not work properly on any distro. This is why, while releasing a community distro with Rev preinstalled might be a step towards diagnosing the problem, it is not the solution to the problem. It is not that some of us do not have the dependencies that Rev needs either installed, properly installed, or properly configured. This could happen I suppose, but it is Rev's problem and not ours if it does. A well behaved Linux application will test for the short list of dependencies that Rev has and notify the user if they are missing. And they are, incidentally, minimal. It will be hard to find a mainstream distribution that does not include them. I have found Window Managers Rev will not run on. I've not found a distro it will not run on. It is not about whether Linux is suitable for the desktop. It is, but if even were it not, this would not be a valid excuse for releasing product that does not work on it. If you really don't think its suitable for the desktop, don't sell product that is doomed for failure when attempting to run on it. Of course, Linux is perfectly suitable for the desktop, and there is no reason why you cannot have stable applications on it. Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Suse have tens of thousands of them. Should we use workarounds? In a way yes, that was a route I took in the beginning. The editor crashes, use Geany. The fonts don't show, use the few ones that do. Printing? Use awk to reformat, or output to a handwritten .rtf file and pipe it into OpenOffice. Of course, all this is the reverse of write once and run everywhere, but still. The screen? Reset the resolution every time you use Rev? This is where I draw the line. No, I'm not doing that. As a customer, I won't be treated like this by any company. What should we do for Rev? It seems to me that the best thing we could do for them is, stop making excuses for them. Python, RealBasic, PyQT, PyGTK, Perl, Lua they all run on Linux without all this stuff. There is no reason Rev cannot too. It must, if its to have a future on the platform. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2289823.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
Alejandro, I have never compiled either one from source, they are included in the repositories with their dependencies. Gedit, being a gnome package, probably needs the basic gnome libraries. I looked up Python dependencies in Slackware, which does not automatically resolve them, and found a list far too long to quote for the different bits of Python. Rev's task is tiny by comparison. They have one IDE to support. Python has PyQT, PyGtk, PySqlite -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2289916.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
Its probably libc that is required. In Debian, glibc seems to refer to the source package. But whatever, it is going to be built in to any mainstream distro, and almost all minority interest ones too. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2290735.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
Richard, your offer of tracking down and submitting patches or fixes is a wonderful gesture. I will try to document some of them to you privately with very complete recipes. The stuff about RB is a bit dismaying. I do find it rather forbidding, and actually, if forced to leave Rev, have already decided that it will be to PyQT. Now please don't post a list of horror stories about that! Hopefully there are not any. But you never know -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2290742.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
The choice of software components that makes Linux so appealing to its users is also the reason that Rev doesn't work with everything. Jacque, I'm afraid this is really not what is going on. Consider a personal case. I now use mainly ion2 and openbox as window managers. Before that it was Fluxbox, before that both Gnome and KDE. This means using at least three or four different window managers, two different desktop environments, different display managers also (I have mixed kdm, gdm, xdm, wdm with these other choices). I've also used different distros during this period, Mandriva, Debian, Slitaz, Slax Everything just works. All the applications. This is the whole point of Linux, or one of them: it is not about proliferation of choice leading to instability. Its about having well defined layers and APIs, so that variety is possible without impairing stability. It makes no difference to a well behaved Linux application which WM you are running, or which clipboard manager. If it does, the application has a problem, its not Linux that has the problem, its not understandable if applications don't work consistently with different flavors of Linux, it means they are defective. The worst possible message the Linux users could send to Rev is that slowdowns and crashes on cut and paste are acceptable, because Linux is just like that. This is a complete fantasy, as anyone with experience of Linux knows. The fact is, no editor I have ever used, and this included kedit, gedit, leafpad, nano, kate, geany (no, I am too old for vim and emacs) ever crashes or does anything untoward on cut and paste. But Rev does, and its done it on KDE, on Gnome, on Mandriva, on Debian. On ion2, Rev will not even run. All other applications run, one or two with some slightly odd behavior, but none of them simply crash, like Rev does. (Ion2 is a minimalist tiling window manager, so it behaves very differently from Gnome, but it is perfectly standards compliant and runs all other apps perfectly). On no WM does Rev run properly with multiple desktops. This is another clue if one needed one: all other apps work fine with multiple desktops, it is only Rev that does not, and it fails consistently across ALL WMs. Rev needs to wise up and fix itself to behing a well behaved Linux app. We all must under no circumstances let them off the hook on this. Its not Linux, its not the distro, its not the cilpboard manager, its not the WM. Its Rev, it is not a well behaved application. And its the one out of step, its not everyone else. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2288438.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
Here is how it should work. Fire up Open Office. Now open the help screen. You now have an open document window and the help window on the same desktop. Now click in the very top left part of the help screen. Or you may have to right click it, I forget exactly how Gnome does it. You should be offered a choice to move it to a different desktop. So pick one and put it there. Now you have the help open in one desktop and the document open in another, and you move from one desktop to another, and have all the space available on each for the windows you are using on them. You should also be able to drag the application windows from one desktop to another by using the little icons on them, in the control panel. Again, not sure if you have those little windows in your control panel on Ubuntu by default; if not, add them from the Gnome selection by right clicking on the panel and then adding the virtual desktop display applet. Now do the same thing with Rev. Open up a couple of windows, the dictionary would be a good one, then move the dictionary to a different desktop. Or move, for instance, the editor to a different desktop. Now do something. Type into the editor, for instance, or look something up in the dictionary, or add a new object to your stack. You'll find that all the windows instantly return to one desktop. Open Office on the other hand will allow you to keep whichever windows you want on whichever desktop you want, and that is how it should work. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2289196.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Script Editor and Linux
Tell me, why is there no custom version of gedit for each individual distribution? Or Python? This is a crazy idea. The problems are not because it is insufficiently tailored to one particular distribution that it works flawlessly on, the problems are because it does not work properly on Linux! Exactly what i think... There so many custom made and specific Linux Distributions that it's almost impossible to keep track of them all, much less to guarantee that your software will run without flaw in each one of them. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/RunRev-Script-Editor-and-Linux-tp2286440p2289483.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Writing Externals in Pascal?
You see, Richmond, what you needed was regular expressions. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Writing-Externals-in-Pascal-tp2278157p2282719.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Question about Native Geometry
Jacque, Its 1920 x 1080. When you set the text size, it works but only partly. Some of the fonts come up the right size, others do not. Some parts of a para in the dictionary are resized, other parts not. The objects also are not resized, so they don't fit any more. To make any difference, it has to be set higher than 14, to 16 or 18. I suspect that the reason it doesn't work properly is two fold. One, the objects do not resize to accept the new text size. So perhaps Rev needs to license Geometry Manager! Second, we probably still have the old Rev font problem: not all fonts are recognized, and not all sizes are available with all that are. I had this problem a while ago, forget exactly which release it was, when setting a font size of some fonts to an out of range size resulted in them reverting to 10 or 12 pt. I'll try Richmond's suggestions. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Question-about-Native-Geometry-tp2269122p2270570.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Question about Native Geometry
Its a 22 inch, a wide screen, and it seems to be 10.5 inches high. Fonts in the dictionary appear to be about 4 point. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Question-about-Native-Geometry-tp2269122p2269892.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Question about Native Geometry
Rev on Linux has become pretty much unusable after buying a bigger screen with higher resolution, since unless you change the monitor to a lower resolution every time Rev starts up, the IDE is unreadably small. Is it possible to use Native Geometry to fix this? Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Computer news from Kassel
The most dangerous argument any company can entertain on this subject. The question is, how the company handles reported product defects, what sort of quality control it operates, whether the result of its resource allocations is to end up doing many things badly, because it has taken on too much. Does the fact, and it probably is one, that you can fix time, cost or quality, but not all three at once, mean that its OK to have reported bugs hanging around for years at a time undealt with? Not necessarily unfixed, but not dealt with and disposed of one way or another? No. In the end that is the route to failure. Do whatever you do to appropriate and justifiable quality standards, and if that means you have no resources left for the new products you would like to introduce, tough. Because you are not going to succeed as a company by introducing them at the expense of overall quality, anyway. There is no better alternative on this than doing what you do, right. And not doing the things you do not have the resources to do right. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Computer-news-from-Kassel-tp2264252p2266644.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: rev media and the player, question
How about that? It does open and run the sample stacks in the Media distribution! Great! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/rev-media-and-the-player-question-tp2264367p2266808.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
rev media and the player, question
I am thinking of offering to introduce one of my neighbor's sons to rev media. His mother had voiced the view that she wished he would learn something creative or useful to do with his computer, if he was going to spend all this time on it, something she would feel better about than an endless sequence of gory shoot-em-ups. One had to sympathize. Does rev Player play stacks written in Media? Or if you want to run them, do you have to have media installed on any machine you want to run them on? I know Stackrunner won't play media generated stacks. Pity. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Computer news from Kassel
The price of doing some things well, if you are a company with limited resources, is refusing to do everything badly. Or put it the other way, the price of trying to do too much is that you will not do anything properly or well. In the end, this is company wrecking. Its a life and death issue. If Rev is really as overstretched as it looks, the first step is to close down some stuff until they arrive at a smaller set of things that can be done properly and to quality standards. If you can't fix the bugs in what you have, don't try to introduce more products, as you will then be unable to fix the bugs in them also. In the common phrase, when in a hole, stop digging. A common reaction to this situation is to deny it exists. This is one of the clearest symptoms of the illness. The cure begins with acceptance and acknowledgment of the problem. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Computer-news-from-Kassel-tp2264252p2265064.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Installing Linux fonts
We need Rev to tell us straightforwardly: Do they admit that basic functionality in the Linux version is broken? If so, do they intend to fix it? Out of deference to Jacque, Richard and Richmond, I will now bite my tongue, except to note this is not about whether Rev and I are suited. This is about whether the Linux version, as being sold, works. If it were the Windows or the OSX version, would this be sold? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-fonts-tp2219888p2258769.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Another Odd problem with Linux
I've never had this on any Linux version. Maybe it is specific to this issue of Ubuntu? What I have had in the way of slowdowns has always been with the editor, slow, freeze and crash. Not as described here though. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Another-Odd-problem-with-Linux-tp2257665p2258804.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Installing Linux fonts
Wolfgang, if this were the only problem, then every reboot would take care of all the font problems, until you installed more fonts. That is not my experience. It varies from distro to distro, but my experience is that after very many reboots, you still have a situation where Rev fails to see some installed fonts, and sees other fonts that are not installed, and that it is the only app with these problems in relation to these fonts. The cause of this, if it persists after reboot, cannot surely be the cache? OT: If you don't want that the user have to use... Should be, if you don't want the user TO HAVE TO USE. You can't 'want that' someone does something. Dunno why, but it sounds wrong. I know, its awful. I often have had the feeling in Europe and speaking a foreign language that it was like trying to play a piano with gloves on. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-fonts-tp2219888p2259422.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Installing Linux fonts
It might be something to do with subjunctives - English does have them, though they are hard to recognize. I want that you give me that apple. that seems to be OK if a little old fashioned and stilted. I want that he obey his teacher (not, that he obeys). Its a bit like je veux que tu ailles a la poste. Better to avoid the problem by using the infinitive. I want you to give I want him to obey. Not he, of course, him. Richmond as an EFL guru will know the proper answer to this -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-fonts-tp2219888p2259430.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Another Odd problem with Linux
Is the editor open? What happens if you open it and do cut and paste? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Another-Odd-problem-with-Linux-tp2257665p2257874.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Linux application icon
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/73930/linux-desktop-shortcut-and-icon-from-install http://linux.die.net/man/1/xdg-desktop-icon You have to either have users who will do desktop icons for themselves, or you have to write a shell script. Or, there is a free Linux installer, installjammer, maybe that does it? Writing a shell script is probably the simplest. You have to do other things in way of installing, you probably need an install script anyway, just include this in the script. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Linux-application-icon-tp2253700p2254174.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Installing Linux fonts
Richmond, one sees no signs they are even working on this - and other problems. Are expressions of anger and impatience any less productive than compliant silence? This is not an excusable way for a company to behave! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-fonts-tp2219888p2254175.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Shell Command with Sudo
Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote: This is all very charming, but I wonder how one would effect this from a standalone on an end-user's machine . . . :) You'd have to write an install or first use shell script. Get the user, then the root password, then write an extra line to /etc/sudoers. The advantage, though it will not matter to many, is that you don't store the password in the app and don't have to supply it at each use of the commands, and that you have restricted your privileges to one named user and one variant of one command. Justin's solution is very nice, agreed. Probably more practical and certainly easier to do. But, you do end up storing the password, and what commands can be executed is not limited, nor is which user limited. Or maybe this is wrong? That is what the effect, I think, would be on Debian, which ships without sudo built in. Maybe these distros that ship with sudo are preconfigured to allow any user to sudo with their own login password? In which case they can do sudo su -? I don't much like that idea either, that cannot be surely? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Shell-Command-with-Sudo-tp2251593p2253279.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: WWDC Keynote: HTML5 wide open for On-Rev revServer
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article7148846.ece 'Maclean is now working with software developers to circumvent Apple’s restrictions via a web app that he hopes “will offer everything an Apple app can, but you can access it with a browser like any internet page. On the other hand, maybe Apple will start being reasonable”.' Or maybe they will take it to the logical conclusion, and do web site censorship? Maybe this is impossible? Maybe they will do it anyway? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/WWDC-Keynote-HTML5-wide-open-for-On-Rev-revServer-tp2246637p2253298.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Installing Linux fonts
Can you imagine finding these directions on how to use installed fonts on a Python mailing list? Its simply ridiculous. Rev needs to make the fonts work on Rev like they do on all other applications. Or stop selling the thing! There are in excess of 20k packages in the Debian repositories. None of them, none, have problems recognizing installed fonts. If you are a systems programmer and writing programs that cannot manage fonts properly in the OS for which you are writing, its time to stop. Take up carpentry, or plumbing. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-fonts-tp2219888p2253303.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Shell Command with Sudo
Is there a reason you cannot use the NOPASSWD option in sudo? Maybe this is not how it works in OSX, but what you'd normally do is to edit /etc/sudoers to allow this particular user to perform this particular command with the no password option, and its done. If you do this, the command can be limited to one with specific options. For instance, you can allow shutdown with the -h option, but not the -r option. No-one has to know the root password then and it is not written anyplace. Yes, you do have to know it to edit /etc/sudoers. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Shell-Command-with-Sudo-tp2251593p2252593.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Linux question / problem
From memory, as I don't run Gnome any longer, having moved to Fluxbox or ion2. First create your link on the desktop or in the task bar. In the task bar, right click, then when you get to the add application window, take custom application, give the full path as prompted - or browse to the application. On the desktop, right click, create application launcher, giving the path in the same way. In each case you should then be able to right click on the launcher, and select properties. If you then click on the icon, you will be able to navigate to where your own custom icon is (presumably in the folder where your app is located) and select it. If you do this with an app that has been installed through the package manager, you'll find that it auto selects the right icon. I don't know how this binding works. Your app will be unusual, in that its icon will not be stored in any of the usual places, which are /usr/share/icons or /usr/share/pixmaps (in Debian, they may be someplace slightly different in Fedora). If you want to create an iconned desktop link during installation, I think you will have to do it in the install shell script. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Linux-question-problem-tp2251161p2251550.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: REALBasic vs Revolution
It depends if you want to program, use the IDE, in Linux. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/REALBasic-vs-Revolution-tp2244408p2244478.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [ANN] Rodeo IDE preview video
J. Landman Gay wrote: Since it's a third party product, I think the rodeo site would be more appropriate. Yes. Basically, Rev is turning into (has turned into? has always been?) a two class product. There is one class, which can buy the add-ins and thus get access to all kinds of interesting functionality, and where the basic functionality works properly. There is another class, which has just as much bought licenses, but which gets to buy little or none of this add-on stuff, and in addition gets a basic product that is not fit for professional development purposes. The list increasingly reflects this fact, with more and more of the discussion being simply irrelevant to licensees of the second class because more and more of it is devoted to addons. Not that moving this stuff to another list will solve the real problem. The problem is what functionality one has access to, not where it is dicussed. It is clear that tRev, Rodeo etc are really core functionalities of the product, so it is quite understandable that people think of it as one thing they are discussing. The user, given this, has a very simple choice to make at renewal time: does he or she keep on being treated like this, or does he or she move to Python? My own answer is, if I don't get some sensible roadmap for this thing, I am not renewing. As much out of a sense of indignation at how we are being treated, as anything else. It doesn't have to be instant catchup, it probably cannot be. It does not have to be instant porting of all add ons, it probably cannot be. But there has to be some acknowledgment of what is going on, and some published plan to fix it. Rev is entering dangerous territory here. It is basically destroying its credibility as a provider of a Linux development environment. So effectively, its betting its future on one view of the Linux market. Could work out, but its dangerous. Risk is not what has happened, after the fact. Risk is what could happen before it. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Rodeo-IDE-preview-video-tp2234453p2237078.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] revMobile and SDK
Francois, there are probably two quite distinct issues, with two different legalities. Probably in the EU, at least in most jurisdictions, Apple will not be able to enforce the prohibition on installing retail copies of OSX on third party hardware. It is interesting they have brought no cases despite well publicized violations. But probably they will be able to continue the quite different policies of tying the iDevices to the App Store and continuing to control what goes in the App Store. This is what underlies the SDK issue. The situations are very different, one can't really draw conclusions from one to the other. One is a question of the enforceability of a civil contract. The other is about whether a given policy breaches competition law and whether the Commission will take action. Very different. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revMobile-and-SDK-tp2236112p2237087.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
