Password protection

2010-05-04 Thread Gabel Paul
Hello everyone: 

I tried to password protect my stacks, but I must be missing some basic 
concept. I read the Password entry in the Dictionary, then I set the password 
on the Stacks screen of the Standalone Application Settings window, then I 
created my standalone. When I open the standalone, it doesn't ask for the 
password. Do I need to script that? I'm using Rev 4.0. Thanks.

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Re: Password protection

2010-05-04 Thread Mark Schonewille

Hi Paul,

Only the scripts are protected by that password. If you want any other  
kind of protection, you need to script it yourself (and those scripts  
are in turn protected by the password set in the standalone settings).


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer

We have updated TwistAWord. Download TwistAWord 1.1 at http://www.twistaword.net

Op 4 mei 2010, om 21:51 heeft Gabel Paul het volgende geschreven:


Hello everyone:

I tried to password protect my stacks, but I must be missing some  
basic concept. I read the Password entry in the Dictionary, then I  
set the password on the Stacks screen of the Standalone Application  
Settings window, then I created my standalone. When I open the  
standalone, it doesn't ask for the password. Do I need to script  
that? I'm using Rev 4.0. Thanks.


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Re: Password protection

2010-05-04 Thread Pierre Sahores
Paul,

The way i use with success is to protect the stack before going to the app 
builder in filling set the password of this stack to yourpassword in the 
messagebox before pressing enter and saving the stack.

Works fine there and the stack just need to be in its unlocked state at the 
time you run the application builder process.

Hope this help,

Pierre

Le 4 mai 2010 à 21:51, Gabel Paul a écrit :

 Hello everyone: 
 
 I tried to password protect my stacks, but I must be missing some basic 
 concept. I read the Password entry in the Dictionary, then I set the password 
 on the Stacks screen of the Standalone Application Settings window, then I 
 created my standalone. When I open the standalone, it doesn't ask for the 
 password. Do I need to script that? I'm using Rev 4.0. Thanks.
 
 Paul Gabel___
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mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread Robert Maniquant

I do not beleive in totally free stuff, at least not concerning a major
program one uses regularly and one relies upon. 
- From a practical point of view, we all want the language, the IDE to
evolve as fast as possible and this costs and the end result cannot be free. 
- From a psychological point of view, I was happy buying out runrev at the
start, with a nice discount. I jumped in came to like it (and hate it at the
time too!) and was happy later on to pay again and more ! You're more likely
to be happy to pay up, if you feel you have benefitted from a nice discount
a time. Stepping from free to payment could be less easy.

THere is an important saying in all education matters, psy coaching etc that
paying something gives value to what your are doing, learning. The great
opportunity we have with softwares is that we can reduce cost dramaticcaly
if we manage to communicate at large. But it sounds much more solid to me if
there remains some element of exchange, be it in the form of payment or
sharing things with a community. 


Judy Perry wrote:
 
 I don't recall it being free for education ;-)
 
 Not that we didn't get a nice discount...
 
 Judy
 
 On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Ian Wood wrote:
 
 Unless my memory is failing, wasn't the predecessor to Dreamcard free? Or
 was 
 that only to people in education?
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread William Marriott
There are many reasons why we opted to make revMedia a free product. 
I'll detail some of them here:


1) Students. To be candid, the greatest source of our current customers 
is former HyperCard users. This community is aging, and we must appeal 
to the next generations. Students, especially those in high school, 
often do not have credit cards. So we want to make it easy for them, as 
individuals, to acquire a great tool to learn programming -- and enjoy 
both immediate and long-term results/success. On a broader level, we 
want to make it very easy for schools and other educational groups to 
teach Rev to students. Free enables that.


2) Ubiquity. We definitely want revlets popping up all over the place. 
We'll be crafting nice made with Rev badges and other sorts of 
programs to encourage the viral distribution of Rev-based content. One 
of our greatest challenges right now is simple awareness. People don't 
know we exist, much less our distinct benefits relative to other Web 
coding options. Adobe and Microsoft have enormous advantages in this 
arena. Adobe Flash is available on just about every platform out there, 
including some mobile ones. Microsoft Silveright benefits from a vast 
installed base of .NET Programmers and their usual marketing machine. 
Anyone going to a Microsoft page gets prompted to install Silverlight, 
for example. Our advantage in being free lets people spend the time to 
learn our capabilities and produce great content with our tool.


3) Great content everyone can see. We have witnessed some truly amazing 
Rev solutions over the years, but we need more of them. Increasing the 
number of people using Rev ensures we will get fresh blood, new ideas, 
beautiful graphics, innovative applications. We're hard at work at 
renovating services like revOnline (like we did in 3.5) to make it 
easier for people to share and promote thier Rev-based work. 
Furthermore, it's far easier [and safer] for newcomers to see Rev in 
action when they can just click a couple times to install a plugin, then 
enjoy fast revlet downloads, as opposed to downloading and 
extracting/installing a standalone application.


4) It's 2009 and the Web is all about FREE. As Richard Gaskin has 
pointed out, the dollar cost of a license is the smallest expense 
associated with using a new product. What is truly expensive is time, 
attention, and effort. In order to earn consideration, we need to 
rethink how people learn about our product. A free trial version isn't 
enough; 30 days isn't enough. 10 lines isn't enough. However, a nicely 
capable free edition (revMedia) that publishes to the Web (today's most 
relevant platform) is a great way to get people into the Rev 
lifestyle and our unique mindset of programming.


5) Revenue. It's a numbers game, and we already know a certain 
percentage of people who get our trial version buy the product; a 
certain number of people who buy revMedia upgrade to revStudio; a 
certain number of revStudio users upgrade to revEnterprise. Increase the 
number of people using Rev, and you increase the number of people buying 
Rev. We do not expect there to be any cannibalization of revStudio or 
revEnterprise sales, as these products have distinct capabilities for 
serious/professional users, such as: database facilities, the data grid, 
the ability to use externals, the ability to remove/replace RunRev 
branding on the loading screen; the ability to make true standalone apps 
for Windows, Mac, and Linux, etc.


As you might imagine, we've done a considerable amount of number 
crunching, analysis, and planning on this front... it's not really about 
philosophy. We're confident this is the best path to dramatically grow 
our user base and ensure a vibrant future for revTalk, a language we all 
have come to love and rely on.


- Bill
  RunRev marketing guy

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread Paul Looney

Bill,
A very good and thoughtful analysis. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Paul Looney

On Aug 25, 2009, at 12:37 PM, William Marriott wrote:

There are many reasons why we opted to make revMedia a free  
product. I'll detail some of them here:


1) Students. To be candid, the greatest source of our current  
customers is former HyperCard users. This community is aging, and  
we must appeal to the next generations. Students, especially those  
in high school, often do not have credit cards. So we want to make  
it easy for them, as individuals, to acquire a great tool to learn  
programming -- and enjoy both immediate and long-term results/ 
success. On a broader level, we want to make it very easy for  
schools and other educational groups to teach Rev to students. Free  
enables that.


2) Ubiquity. We definitely want revlets popping up all over the  
place. We'll be crafting nice made with Rev badges and other  
sorts of programs to encourage the viral distribution of Rev-based  
content. One of our greatest challenges right now is simple  
awareness. People don't know we exist, much less our distinct  
benefits relative to other Web coding options. Adobe and Microsoft  
have enormous advantages in this arena. Adobe Flash is available on  
just about every platform out there, including some mobile ones.  
Microsoft Silveright benefits from a vast installed base of .NET  
Programmers and their usual marketing machine. Anyone going to a  
Microsoft page gets prompted to install Silverlight, for example.  
Our advantage in being free lets people spend the time to learn our  
capabilities and produce great content with our tool.


3) Great content everyone can see. We have witnessed some truly  
amazing Rev solutions over the years, but we need more of them.  
Increasing the number of people using Rev ensures we will get fresh  
blood, new ideas, beautiful graphics, innovative applications.  
We're hard at work at renovating services like revOnline (like we  
did in 3.5) to make it easier for people to share and promote thier  
Rev-based work. Furthermore, it's far easier [and safer] for  
newcomers to see Rev in action when they can just click a couple  
times to install a plugin, then enjoy fast revlet downloads, as  
opposed to downloading and extracting/installing a standalone  
application.


4) It's 2009 and the Web is all about FREE. As Richard Gaskin has  
pointed out, the dollar cost of a license is the smallest expense  
associated with using a new product. What is truly expensive is  
time, attention, and effort. In order to earn consideration, we  
need to rethink how people learn about our product. A free trial  
version isn't enough; 30 days isn't enough. 10 lines isn't enough.  
However, a nicely capable free edition (revMedia) that publishes to  
the Web (today's most relevant platform) is a great way to get  
people into the Rev lifestyle and our unique mindset of programming.


5) Revenue. It's a numbers game, and we already know a certain  
percentage of people who get our trial version buy the product; a  
certain number of people who buy revMedia upgrade to revStudio; a  
certain number of revStudio users upgrade to revEnterprise.  
Increase the number of people using Rev, and you increase the  
number of people buying Rev. We do not expect there to be any  
cannibalization of revStudio or revEnterprise sales, as these  
products have distinct capabilities for serious/professional users,  
such as: database facilities, the data grid, the ability to use  
externals, the ability to remove/replace RunRev branding on the  
loading screen; the ability to make true standalone apps for  
Windows, Mac, and Linux, etc.


As you might imagine, we've done a considerable amount of number  
crunching, analysis, and planning on this front... it's not really  
about philosophy. We're confident this is the best path to  
dramatically grow our user base and ensure a vibrant future for  
revTalk, a language we all have come to love and rely on.


- Bill
  RunRev marketing guy

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread Colin Holgate


On Aug 25, 2009, at 3:37 PM, William Marriott wrote:



5) Revenue. It's a numbers game,



I'm sure you meant runRevenue...



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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread Robert Maniquant

Thanks for sharing these arguments, William. I find them fully convincing in
favor of a fully free unrestricted revMedia. These thoughts are also
important for all developers to decide how best to distribute their apps.

I pointed out I felt it would be good for the language to : 

1) develop the sharing habit of utilities, eductionalWare, libraries.

Maybe runrev can think of some innovative incentive to do so. 
The issue raised in that thread has some relations with that question since,
obviously, disallowing password protection for the first entry level was a
way to enforce sharing. It may not be the best way, and I hope better ways
will be tried.

2) provide solutions to better monitor the runrev user base.

I might be a good idea to set up a kind of revWeb search engine that will
gather all pages using the plugin.
It is peculiar to runrev to communicate very few information on the user
base. And there are very few examples of commercial softwares using runrev
on the home site. Such a search engine might help lift up interrogations by
potential users.

Robert





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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread Wilhelm Sanke

On Tue Aug 25, 2009; William Marriott wjm at wjm.org wrote:
 

There are many reasons why we opted to make revMedia a free product.
I'll detail some of them here:

1) Students.
(snip)
2) Ubiquity.
(snip)
3) Great content everyone can see.
(snip)
4) It's 2009 and the Web is all about FREE.
(snip)
5) Revenue.
(snip)
- Bill
   RunRev marketing guy


Bill,

I am really happy that you eventually have re-introduced a free version. 
In 2001 the Rev team strongly opposed such deliberations, mainly because 
of economical reasons.


Here is a part of my post sent to Kevin (Miller) some days ago, when I 
extended my license up to 2013.


I congratulate you on the decision to offer one version of Revolution 
to the public for free. In 2001 we both had an exchange on the 
Revolution list about such free versions. I had proposed to you to 
continue to support the Metacard version - as some sort of Revolution 
Light - and either offer it for free or at a very low price. Such a 
step - in my opinion - would have been necessary, because at that time 
you discontinued the free Starter Kit versions - from economical 
reasons as you stated it, if I remember correctly.


Not having at my disposal such Starter Kits has impeded my work to 
some substantial degree with students at our university. We were 
however  lucky to be able to continue to use the old Starter Kit 
versions (which one could extend up to version 2.5), but were of 
course unable to work with newly introduced features.-



Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-25 Thread capellan


Robert Maniquant wrote:
 
 1) develop the sharing habit of utilities, eductionalWare, libraries.
 Maybe runrev can think of some innovative incentive to do so. 
 

Something like this could help: http://ced.ncsu.edu/mmania/

i serve as judge in one of the editions of this event.
Students sent websites, with multiple pages, powerpoint
presentations, quicktime videos and stacks created with
HyperStudio.

MultimediaMania was halted for a lack of sponsors.

Ideally winners prices will be sponsored by hardware
manufacturers like Dell, HP, Lenovo or Acer, for a
teacher tutor and students. Schools could receive
training for their teachers. 


Robert Maniquant wrote:
 
 2) provide solutions to better monitor the runrev user base.
 I might be a good idea to set up a kind of revWeb search engine that will
 gather all pages using the plugin.
 It is peculiar to runrev to communicate very few information on the user
 base. And there are very few examples of commercial softwares using runrev
 on the home site. Such a search engine might help lift up interrogations
 by potential users.
 

Actually, i have never informed Rev about any Commercial Standalone
i have created or had participated. i do not feel obligated to report
the type of work that i create in Rev. Why other developers should?

By the way, in the Quality Control Center page for this request, Kevin
wrote:
http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8234

To respond to the actual request here, i.e. in relation to sharing of stacks
/
libraries / etc, revMedia does not allow you to password protect a stack.
Nor
does it allow you to unlock a password protected stack created in another
edition.
The revlet format is encoded and will be non-trivial to reverse engineer.

--
Now, if somebody want password protection in revMedia, it will be neccesary
to fill an enhancement request...

al
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Richmond Mathewson

Peter Alcibiades wrote:

Leave it in.  If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it.  Leaving it
out is just an attempt to irritate the user.  People don't upgrade because
they are irritated, but because they are pleased.  When they get irritated,
they think about finding a different solution.
  

I will second that!
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Ian Wood


On 24 Aug 2009, at 09:24, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


Peter Alcibiades wrote:
Leave it in.  If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it.   
Leaving it
out is just an attempt to irritate the user.  People don't upgrade  
because
they are irritated, but because they are pleased.  When they get  
irritated,

they think about finding a different solution.


I will second that!


Thirded. I can't see disabling password protection of stacks in  
RevMedia doing anything other than irritate potential users.


People will upgrade for the ability to build standalones, not to be  
able to password a stack.


Ian

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread David Bovill
I'm on the fence with this one.

My definite preference would be to enable the SSL libraries on the all
versions, so that we can use proper security and access web services that
require SSL - I suspect the need for this function to grow rapidly as more
and more web services move over to tighter security models - the right
balance of openness and incentive to upgrade would be include ssl in the
free versions but easy stack level encryption in paid models.

This debate is parallel to the debate between different types of open source
license - GPL or more liberal licenses like MIT. In this debate there is a
trade off between encouraging businesses to adopt, and encouraging code to
flow back to the community. In this context RunRev are using features of the
engine to do the equivalent of what the GPL / MIT licenses do - the MIT
license allows you to lock your code additions away and not feed them back,
the GPL forces everyone to feedback.

The argument for removing the ability to password protect stacks is a good
one (thanks capellan) - but just like the GPL, the debate is open with
regard to whether it has a greater effect on stimulating the creation of
robust public domain/open source libraries than more liberal licenses.

For marketing reasons alone, whichever the choice of strategy, I've long
encouraged RunRev to adopt a clear open source strategy. A very clear signal
would be sent if they explicitly built in the ability to license and publish
code from within the editor. Allowing / disallowing certain features in the
engine can also express / help enforce the same policy - but it is more
important to work with the community and encourage clear licensing
arrangements.
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Ian Wood


On 24 Aug 2009, at 10:14, David Bovill wrote:

The argument for removing the ability to password protect stacks is  
a good

one (thanks capellan)


So far the arguments that I've read in the thread could be summarised  
as 'other things are limited in revMedia, so this should be as well to  
make people upgrade'.


Or am I missing a post somewhere?

Ian
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread David Bovill
2009/8/24 Ian Wood revl...@azurevision.co.uk


 On 24 Aug 2009, at 10:14, David Bovill wrote:

  The argument for removing the ability to password protect stacks is a good
 one (thanks capellan)


 So far the arguments that I've read in the thread could be summarised as
 'other things are limited in revMedia, so this should be as well to make
 people upgrade'.


True - no one likes that. I especially did not like it with regard to SSL
functionality :) But you've got to admit it is in everyone's interest to
maintain strong incentives for people to upgrade and therefore provide
RunRev the revenue stream they need to keep developing the language.

I'm interested in tools, licenses, and social media that encourage
collaborative efforts - whether open source or simply online communities and
user generated content. In that context I'd argue that creating a free
environment in which *the code is unlockable* and encouraging open source
licenses for such code is technique worth considering for any company aiming
to increase the user base for a computer language.

It is controversial because we don't have good studies (yet) around these
issues. It would be interesting to ask whether a version of JavaScript that
allowed the code to be locked would have taken off more quickly or slower
than JavaScript that you could not lock, and everyone could read, hack and
learn from? We simply don't know. In the case of JavaScript - my guess is
that allowing the code to be locked would have quite seriously damaged it's
uptake and stimulated java based solutions. However I'm not coming down hard
on either side - I just think it is a good question.

My intuition on this lean towards

   1. Preventing locked/closed code suits organisations with small language
   communities and where developing robust user generated libraries is a
   priority.
   2. I'd lean towards the allow locking/close sourcing for larger or
   established language communities, with a wide array of existing libraries,
   where you want to encourage commercial language markets for components.

But then there is no good evidence either way for this - all we can do for
now is keep a close eye on these collaborative communities and see what
works and does not through trial and error.
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread George C Brackett
Fourthed (if there is such a thing).  Educational use is for me the  
deciding factor.


George

On Aug 24, 2009, at 5:00 AM, Ian Wood wrote:


On 24 Aug 2009, at 09:24, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


Peter Alcibiades wrote:
Leave it in.  If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it.   
Leaving it
out is just an attempt to irritate the user.  People don't upgrade  
because
they are irritated, but because they are pleased.  When they get  
irritated,

they think about finding a different solution.


I will second that!


Thirded. I can't see disabling password protection of stacks in  
RevMedia doing anything other than irritate potential users.


People will upgrade for the ability to build standalones, not to be  
able to password a stack.


Ian

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Robert Maniquant

For or against password protection in the free runrev version?

We chose to live in a world where exchange is at the basis of a lot of
things. The openSOurce movement also rests on that basis : I give my code
for free, but In exchange, i'll get a lot more for free too. Well, How do I
live as a programmer? Maybe i manage to sell a few (or a lot!) of tailored
made solutions, which I can do in less time since I share all these goodies.
So far I understand, both universe (commercial and shared open source) live
hand in hand and should work han in hand.

That leaves us with a refined question which scope extends further than just
the password protection : how can runrev favor the growth of a really cool
network of passionates and professionals with two levels : 1) share as many
ressources as possible 2) sell the one that needs to, thus virtually
creating a new market segment. Same question arises for the grand public
at large : how to share as many ressources as possible and how to sell as
many as possible too!

So far it seems that the group of runrev users managed to keep a very good
group ware  attitude. i am very grateful to all the people who published
stacks who helped me grasp a few more things, and I will not miss the
occasion myself to do the same. 
I do not know about other languages since I chose to concentrate on runrev,
and am happy with this choice. I did notice though, that the new version of
runrev online has had much less succes than the original on in terms of
number of stacks shared. Also classification of stack is really bad to my
view.. 

So that leads me to the following idea : there should be an incentive to
publish and share stacks and libraries, (and perhaps a kind of penality for
people who never do share anything... ?) 

So my pratical proposition is :
a) to remove the possibility to protect a stack in the fully free version
for standAlones and for the web version

b) to ask the same price as former runrev media entry level to allow
protection (it was around 50 dollars). [This is already a big improvement
since previously for 50 dollars you could not create a standalone].

c) Studio and enterprise pricing seem ok to me. The SSL thingy should be
made more widely avaailable too, WHEN and only when its use will be more
widespsread and less expensive (to day SSL requires quite a few expensives
ceritficates anyways, so useless for everybody as things are yet). 

and d) REWARD people who share stacks on revOnline by sending them free
upgrade coupons to the protected version. And free purchase coupons for
studio and enterprise versions. Also have a section shared stacks in the
monthly newsletter and put forward people who participate letting the have
an occasion to promote their products and services around runrev. As well as
a yearly prize of best shared stacks to honor their donors!
==  It cost nothing to runrev to do so 
== it is normal to reward people for participating
== it is essential to communicate on the need to establish a great
community (this was one of the basis of HYPERCARD).

e) setUp a much better exchange network for all runrev developpers, a kind
of runrev market place. With well thought sharing strategies and rules. And
a place to make community bids to encourage developpers add some libraries
by sharing the cost among as many users as possible. (I' de really need a
better audio library but can't afford it alone!! smile!)

ANNOUCEMENT I would personnaly like to participate it he setting up of such
a platform and I do make a call here to constitute a pilot group !! PLease,
any people interested, drop a private message, thanks.


I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in providing a
full version totally free and not making a very big point on the groupWare
attitude which is very intelligent, sexy and really efficient, but which
needs to be actively SUSTAINED (and not only talked about as a selling
argument.. ). But.. it's by doing and taking the plunge that things happen
so, nice move runrev!


-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25118837.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Ian Wood


On 24 Aug 2009, at 17:10, Robert Maniquant wrote:

I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in  
providing a

full version totally free


For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the  
lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several  
years ago...


Ian
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Richard Gaskin

Ian Wood wrote:


On 24 Aug 2009, at 17:10, Robert Maniquant wrote:

I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in  
providing a

full version totally free


For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the  
lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several  
years ago...


Which version was that?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Ian Wood


On 24 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Ian Wood wrote:


For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the   
lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was  
several  years ago...


Which version was that?


Unless my memory is failing, wasn't the predecessor to Dreamcard free?  
Or was that only to people in education?


Ian

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Shao Sean
setUp a much better exchange network for all runrev developpers, a  
kind of runrev market place


sorry for the plug  www.revdevelop.com   is that something like what  
you were talking about?




lower end version has gone *back* to being free


yup.. when Rev first came out (and MetaCard was still around) there  
was a free starter kit version that allowed you full access to the IDE/ 
language with a 10-line script limit, and you were able to build  
standalone too..



Personally I think the ability to lock stacks is a great way for  
people to share them and not have to worry about having code lifted..  
Here is a nice example:


- someone downloads revMedia and develops some little stacks here and  
there and releases them with source unlocked
- after a couple of months they get the hang of Rev and are looking at  
upgrading to Studio (or even Enterprise), but sadly funds are short  
and they cannot afford to (starving student, shareware authour, etc ;-)
- they write a really cool library that some people have been asking  
for on the mailing list


at this point if they were not able to password protect it, there is  
no way you would be able to sell the library because people could go  
in and remove your demo code, etc, etc.. password protection of the  
library will allow that person to sell their library, get some money  
and upgrade their copy of Rev (or buy something for their mom)


-Sean
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Sivakatirswami

Randall Reetz wrote:

You are right, I was confused about the thread.  I thought it was a larger 
discussion about general product marketing and revenue models.  sorry
  



David has brought the issue into very clear focus.  David, thanks for 
taking the time to elucidate this so well. Whether to go open source or 
not is another big discussion. I'm not competent to enter in there.


But on the locking of stacks made by a free product - revmedia:

David wrote:  This debate is parallel to the debate between different 
types of open source license - GPL or more liberal licenses like MIT. In 
this debate there is a trade off between encouraging businesses to 
adopt, and encouraging code to flow back to the community.


Much as I love the flow back to the community principle, it probably 
has to fall the other way.  Another piece in this big puzzle:


Here in house we are deeply focused right now on the e-book revolution, 
every day pumping PDF's up to scribed kindle etc. and watching trends... 
and this is also tying into the edu world where ink on paper text books, 
and even PDF's of materials originally designed for print, one might say 
are something that will be fading. With HP's possible big contract in 
California to sell their notebook emasse to schools and text book 
publishers scrambling to deal with the inevitable digital delivery of 
the former 12 pound engineering text. Revmedia has a possible huge 
market share about to open up. Educators at least will need security, 
not necessarily to only to hide their stack code, but for all kinds of 
other reasons (test answers, access to records, url's pointing to 
content on servers, proprietary imagery, music)


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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Richmond Mathewson

Richard Gaskin wrote:

Ian Wood wrote:


On 24 Aug 2009, at 17:10, Robert Maniquant wrote:

I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in  
providing a

full version totally free


For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the  
lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several  
years ago...


Which version was that?

Lurking on my hard drives, somewhere, are various versions of Runtime 
Revolution: 2.0.1 backwards -
that allowed one to make stacks, and standalones from those stacks, as 
long as each object contained

no more than 10 lines of code.

I developed a CD for musical instruction in Scottish schools (got badly 
diddled by the person
whi hired me; but that is another story), the Agent-led GUI for my MSc 
thesis, and a CD for

Bulgarian school-kids to prep for their Bulgarian literature exams with
RR 2.0.1.  As I do not, currently, own any version of RunRev post 2.0.1 
(except for the totally
free 2.2.1 version put out by Novell a few years back) that is capable 
of producing standalones,
on the very few occasions I have had to produce standalones for either 
Mac or Windows I have

used 2.0.1.

revMedia 4B is both better and worse if compared with RunRev 2.0.1: 
it can tolerate
unlimited lines of code (I know, I've been up to my eyeballs in lengthy, 
extremely tedious

scripts recently), but cannot produce standalones.

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Richard Gaskin

Richmond wrote:


Richard Gaskin wrote:

Ian Wood wrote:
For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the  
lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several  
years ago...


Which version was that?

Lurking on my hard drives, somewhere, are various versions of Runtime 
Revolution: 2.0.1 backwards -
that allowed one to make stacks, and standalones from those stacks, as 
long as each object contained

no more than 10 lines of code.


Ah yes - I'd forgotten that RunRev used to honor the same licensing MC did.

It was amazing what some folks came up with within those limits, like 
you did with your musical instruction stacks.


I can understand why RR moved to time-based trials, but for a language 
this rich and unique having RevMedia for free lets people spend much 
more time to really get a feel for what they can do with it.  30 days 
just wasn't enough for a sole-source proprietary language.  A very good 
change, much better than the old scriptLimits-based option.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-24 Thread Judy Perry

I don't recall it being free for education ;-)

Not that we didn't get a nice discount...

Judy

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Ian Wood wrote:

Unless my memory is failing, wasn't the predecessor to Dreamcard free? Or was 
that only to people in education?

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread François Chaplais


Le 23 août 09 à 06:34, Sivakatirswami a écrit :


capellan wrote:

Hi all,

This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4.
filled in Report # 8234.

Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to
password protect your scripts should be allowed only
in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like
the options to use encryption, Business databases
and SSL.





Can you provide more compelling reasons for disabling password  
protection?

(aside from compelling users to move to a paid version)

I'm more interested that revMedia take off
in the viral sense of being widely used, RunRev RevTalk
brand becomes as sweet and common as honey in your lemonade.

The question of whether disabling protection enhances
or dampens the jet fuel that could push RevMedia to
a wider audience needs to be answered.

in the old hypercard days, could you protect stacks? I can't  
remember, it's been so long


Hypercard was free (but without standalone capability) because that  
was a requirement by Bill Atkinson. Password protection was the only  
way to do business with HC in these days. Then (I do not remember in  
which order) standalones were possible and the IDE was not free  
anymore. However there was still a free player.


I think the defeat of Hypercard lied in its inability to compile for  
the PC, which was itself due to the particular way it was implemented  
by Atkinson. Remember that, at that times, MS windows was unusable.  
Making HC a non free developing environment killed the grass root  
enthusiasm for HC.


Did this prevent or enhance Hypercard's popularity?
1) Young people probably won't care, even if they can protect there
stuff, they may choose to let others see  their scripts.

2) teachers will,  as pointed out

3) anyone doing a lo-level business app most certainly (who has  
plenty $ to upgrade)...


in the space in time between when the business hacker uses the  
product
until when he actually pays for the upgrade, if he cannot protect  
the stack, it could

make it virtually an unusable option.



snip

I think the free revMedia should not be over crippled. Adoption by  
hobbyists is important to make the environment popular. By hobbyist I  
mean people which will make a limited but happy use of rev but would  
have never considered buying the product in the first place. I add  
that a one month demo is not enough for a person who has a non IT full  
time work to get acquainted with a programming environment.


RunRev can cripple the free version later; this always possible. But  
give the baby a chance before.


François
	a hobbyist with just enough money and interest to pay for a studio  
edition.




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RE: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Randall Reetz
I echo francios' sentiment.  Lock-in happens only after viral adoption.  There 
are of course revenue models other than retail purchase of tool license.  It 
would be entirely possible to give the product away, and charge only a 
percentage of a user's income as a result of said tool.  There are tracking and 
enforcement issues with such a model, but good will and easy uptake by 
potential paying customers becomes more benevolent and reasonable.  Trust is a 
valid way to approach one's customers.  When I was in university, there was a 
bookshop in the local town without employees.  Just a box at the front door.  
If you found a book you wanted, you wrote the name of the book on an envelope, 
put cash in that envelope, and dropped it into the slot on the top of the box 
as you left.  They said these was far less than theft in other book stores.  
People like to be trusted.

randall  



-Original Message-
From: François Chaplais francois.chapl...@mines-paristech.fr
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:29 AM
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks


Le 23 août 09 à 06:34, Sivakatirswami a écrit :

 capellan wrote:
 Hi all,

 This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4.
 filled in Report # 8234.

 Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to
 password protect your scripts should be allowed only
 in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like
 the options to use encryption, Business databases
 and SSL.




 Can you provide more compelling reasons for disabling password  
 protection?
 (aside from compelling users to move to a paid version)

 I'm more interested that revMedia take off
 in the viral sense of being widely used, RunRev RevTalk
 brand becomes as sweet and common as honey in your lemonade.

 The question of whether disabling protection enhances
 or dampens the jet fuel that could push RevMedia to
 a wider audience needs to be answered.

 in the old hypercard days, could you protect stacks? I can't  
 remember, it's been so long

Hypercard was free (but without standalone capability) because that  
was a requirement by Bill Atkinson. Password protection was the only  
way to do business with HC in these days. Then (I do not remember in  
which order) standalones were possible and the IDE was not free  
anymore. However there was still a free player.

I think the defeat of Hypercard lied in its inability to compile for  
the PC, which was itself due to the particular way it was implemented  
by Atkinson. Remember that, at that times, MS windows was unusable.  
Making HC a non free developing environment killed the grass root  
enthusiasm for HC.

 Did this prevent or enhance Hypercard's popularity?
 1) Young people probably won't care, even if they can protect there
 stuff, they may choose to let others see  their scripts.

 2) teachers will,  as pointed out

 3) anyone doing a lo-level business app most certainly (who has  
 plenty $ to upgrade)...

 in the space in time between when the business hacker uses the  
 product
 until when he actually pays for the upgrade, if he cannot protect  
 the stack, it could
 make it virtually an unusable option.


snip

I think the free revMedia should not be over crippled. Adoption by  
hobbyists is important to make the environment popular. By hobbyist I  
mean people which will make a limited but happy use of rev but would  
have never considered buying the product in the first place. I add  
that a one month demo is not enough for a person who has a non IT full  
time work to get acquainted with a programming environment.

RunRev can cripple the free version later; this always possible. But  
give the baby a chance before.

François
a hobbyist with just enough money and interest to pay for a studio  
edition.



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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Sivakatirswami

Randall Reetz wrote:

I echo francios' sentiment.  Lock-in happens only after viral adoption.  There 
are of course revenue models other than retail purchase of tool license.  It 
would be entirely possible to give the product away, and charge only a 
percentage of a user's income as a result of said tool.  There are tracking and 
enforcement issues with such a model, but good will and easy uptake by 
potential paying customers becomes more benevolent and reasonable.  Trust is a 
valid way to approach one's customers.  When I was in university, there was a 
bookshop in the local town without employees.  Just a box at the front door.  
If you found a book you wanted, you wrote the name of the book on an envelope, 
put cash in that envelope, and dropped it into the slot on the top of the box 
as you left.  They said these was far less than theft in other book stores.  
People like to be trusted.

randall  




Randall:
  


This thread is about whether or not password protection should be 
disabled for RevMedia 4 stacks.


What is your point relative to that subject?
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RE: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Randall Reetz
Wow.

-Original Message-
From: Sivakatirswami ka...@hindu.org
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:46 PM
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

Randall Reetz wrote:
 I echo francios' sentiment.  Lock-in happens only after viral adoption.  
 There are of course revenue models other than retail purchase of tool 
 license.  It would be entirely possible to give the product away, and charge 
 only a percentage of a user's income as a result of said tool.  There are 
 tracking and enforcement issues with such a model, but good will and easy 
 uptake by potential paying customers becomes more benevolent and reasonable.  
 Trust is a valid way to approach one's customers.  When I was in university, 
 there was a bookshop in the local town without employees.  Just a box at the 
 front door.  If you found a book you wanted, you wrote the name of the book 
 on an envelope, put cash in that envelope, and dropped it into the slot on 
 the top of the box as you left.  They said these was far less than theft in 
 other book stores.  People like to be trusted.

 randall  



 Randall:
   

This thread is about whether or not password protection should be 
disabled for RevMedia 4 stacks.

What is your point relative to that subject?
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Shao Sean

wow that was totally a douche bag move there sivakatirswami

Apparently his point was lost on you so let me try to clarify it:
	do not take away the ability to password protect until after revMedia  
has blossomed like a lotus


I remember the old days of HyperCard stacks and I still have a few  
floppy disks worth of stuff kicking around here, but back on tangent,  
getting stacks (locked or not) allowed for HC to really spread out  
amongst the community and even allowed a few people to sell stacks  
(due to the fact they could lock them) even though HC (and then HC  
Player) were free..


I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Colin Holgate


On Aug 23, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Shao Sean wrote:


I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia



One possible model that might work could be like 3D Warehouse. There  
you can go and download almost any kind of 3D model you might want,  
and everyone who uploaded the models has agreed to allow any use of  
the model as it is, or for anyone to modify it and pass it on. A  
revMediaHouse could be a place to upload stacks you want to share with  
the world, and anyone could download it, or use it immediately in a  
browser. As part of the upload agreement you would have made sure not  
to password protect the stack. You could still put in promotional  
things for your commercial stacks, which you may have protected.


Incidentally, I never password protected any of my HyperCard stack  
floppies or CD-ROMs, and even my Director based CD-ROMs had the  
original source code buried in a folder on the disc. The way I saw  
it,  that way I had thousands of backup copies of my code.



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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Shao Sean
A revMediaHouse could be a place to upload stacks you want to share  
with

the world


where were you when i was thinking of names?
i will let a kitten out of the bag, watch for an announcement near the  
end of this week ;-)

if you are really curious, feel free to email me off-list

info AT shaosean DOT tk
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Colin Holgate


On Aug 23, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Shao Sean wrote:

A revMediaHouse could be a place to upload stacks you want to share  
with

the world


where were you when i was thinking of names?
i will let a kitten out of the bag, watch for an announcement near  
the end of this week ;-)



You probably called it wehoststacks.com. Which is available in case  
you're now curious.





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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Shao Sean

You probably called it wehoststacks.com.


nope, but if no-one else grabs it i will see about getting it (please  
no-one else grab it ;-)

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Peter Alcibiades

Leave it in.  If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it.  Leaving it
out is just an attempt to irritate the user.  People don't upgrade because
they are irritated, but because they are pleased.  When they get irritated,
they think about finding a different solution.
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25110293.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Sannyasin Sivakatirswami
Well Ha! Jai Ganesha! (smile)  I've never been called that until today.
Interesting I had to look it up:  douche bag: informal, a loathsome or
contemptible person (used as a term of abuse). Actually I'm not *that* bad,
really...

Seriously, I was the one who mentioned that we want it to go viral... and
I could not understand how Randall's discussion of lock in and selling
books in a book store without employees on trust relates to the issue of
whether to disable the stack protection feature on the free product
(revMedia)

It seemed we were mixing up the issue of whether the product should be free,
with the issue of whether the free product should allow users to protect
their stacks. i.e. my question on how does it relate was not meant as a
jab, but as a real question. He said People like to be trusted. true...
so, Randall does *not* want password protection of stacks in the free
product? i.e. he's voted with Capellan? and if so, why?   wasn't clear to
meit still isn't, I must be dense.

 But, seems most of us are on the same page: we don't want to disable that
feature i.e. let anyone lock their stacks if they want to. Many who are not
just hobbists, but doing real work, will not use it if they *can't* secure
their data.








On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Shao Sean shaos...@wehostmacs.com wrote:

 wow that was totally a douche bag move there sivakatirswami

 Apparently his point was lost on you so let me try to clarify it:
do not take away the ability to password protect until after
 revMedia has blossomed like a lotus

 I remember the old days of HyperCard stacks and I still have a few floppy
 disks worth of stuff kicking around here, but back on tangent, getting
 stacks (locked or not) allowed for HC to really spread out amongst the
 community and even allowed a few people to sell stacks (due to the fact they
 could lock them) even though HC (and then HC Player) were free..

 I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia

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RE: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-23 Thread Randall Reetz
You are right, I was confused about the thread.  I thought it was a larger 
discussion about general product marketing and revenue models.  sorry

-Original Message-
From: Sannyasin Sivakatirswami ka...@hindu.org
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:28 PM
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

Well Ha! Jai Ganesha! (smile)  I've never been called that until today.
Interesting I had to look it up:  douche bag: informal, a loathsome or
contemptible person (used as a term of abuse). Actually I'm not *that* bad,
really...

Seriously, I was the one who mentioned that we want it to go viral... and
I could not understand how Randall's discussion of lock in and selling
books in a book store without employees on trust relates to the issue of
whether to disable the stack protection feature on the free product
(revMedia)

It seemed we were mixing up the issue of whether the product should be free,
with the issue of whether the free product should allow users to protect
their stacks. i.e. my question on how does it relate was not meant as a
jab, but as a real question. He said People like to be trusted. true...
so, Randall does *not* want password protection of stacks in the free
product? i.e. he's voted with Capellan? and if so, why?   wasn't clear to
meit still isn't, I must be dense.

 But, seems most of us are on the same page: we don't want to disable that
feature i.e. let anyone lock their stacks if they want to. Many who are not
just hobbists, but doing real work, will not use it if they *can't* secure
their data.








On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Shao Sean shaos...@wehostmacs.com wrote:

 wow that was totally a douche bag move there sivakatirswami

 Apparently his point was lost on you so let me try to clarify it:
do not take away the ability to password protect until after
 revMedia has blossomed like a lotus

 I remember the old days of HyperCard stacks and I still have a few floppy
 disks worth of stuff kicking around here, but back on tangent, getting
 stacks (locked or not) allowed for HC to really spread out amongst the
 community and even allowed a few people to sell stacks (due to the fact they
 could lock them) even though HC (and then HC Player) were free..

 I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia

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Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread capellan

Hi all,

This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4.
filled in Report # 8234.

Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to
password protect your scripts should be allowed only
in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like
the options to use encryption, Business databases
and SSL.


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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread Richard Gaskin

Alejandro wrote:

This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4.
filled in Report # 8234.

Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to
password protect your scripts should be allowed only
in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like
the options to use encryption, Business databases
and SSL.


Good suggestion.  I'm inclined to agree, as one more way to make the 
purchase of a license compelling.


But before I vote I have to ask:  Could there be security considerations 
 for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability?


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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread capellan


Richard Gaskin wrote:
 
 But before I vote I have to ask:  Could there be security considerations 
   for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability?
 

Minimized?

Do you mean: How could revMedia 4 end users will be affected if they
could not password protect their stacks?

For example, if a teacher creates a multiple-choice test, all correct
answers will be available to anyone that uses the IDE... :-(
and surely there should exists many more examples of users affected
in some way.


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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread Richmond Mathewson

capellan wrote:

Richard Gaskin wrote:
  
But before I vote I have to ask:  Could there be security considerations 
  for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability?





Minimized?

Do you mean: How could revMedia 4 end users will be affected if they
could not password protect their stacks?

For example, if a teacher creates a multiple-choice test, all correct
answers will be available to anyone that uses the IDE... :-(
and surely there should exists many more examples of users affected
in some way.


  

Surely the disabling of the ability to password protect stacks should not
be implemented before the pay versions become available.
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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread Richmond Mathewson

capellan wrote:

Richard Gaskin wrote:
  
But before I vote I have to ask:  Could there be security considerations 
  for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability?





Minimized?

Do you mean: How could revMedia 4 end users will be affected if they
could not password protect their stacks?

For example, if a teacher creates a multiple-choice test, all correct
answers will be available to anyone that uses the IDE... :-(
  

Not really, if the questions and answers are stored outwith the stack in
some sort of encoded document!

Obviously without the ability to password protect stacks the programmer
who wants to protect his/her data (i.e. stuff other than scripts) will 
have to
make an extra effort - but in computer-land all things are password 
protectable, and

all password protection is crackable . . .

So, quite frankly, why bother about this at all?


and surely there should exists many more examples of users affected
in some way.


  


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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread capellan



Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote:
 
 Not really, if the questions and answers are stored out with the stack in
 some sort of encoded document!
 
 Obviously without the ability to password protect stacks the programmer
 who wants to protect his/her data (i.e. stuff other than scripts)
 will have to make an extra effort - but in computer-land all things are
 password protectable, and all password protection is crackable . . .
 
 So, quite frankly, why bother about this at all?
 

Then, if using password encryption is the same as not using it,
you are going to add your vote to dissable password protection
in revMedia 4. Right?

By the way, if all password protection is crackable...
Could anybody, in this mail list, deprotect the script of my stack:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Learn_Japanese_Syllabaries_v092.zip

Have a nice weekend!

alejandro

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Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks

2009-08-22 Thread Sivakatirswami

capellan wrote:

Hi all,

This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4.
filled in Report # 8234.

Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to
password protect your scripts should be allowed only
in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like
the options to use encryption, Business databases
and SSL.


  


Can you provide more compelling reasons for disabling password protection?
(aside from compelling users to move to a paid version)

I'm more interested that revMedia take off
in the viral sense of being widely used, RunRev RevTalk
brand becomes as sweet and common as honey in your lemonade.

The question of whether disabling protection enhances
or dampens the jet fuel that could push RevMedia to
a wider audience needs to be answered.

in the old hypercard days, could you protect stacks? I can't remember, 
it's been so long


Did this prevent or enhance Hypercard's popularity?
1) Young people probably won't care, even if they can protect there
stuff, they may choose to let others see  their scripts.

2) teachers will,  as pointed out

3) anyone doing a lo-level business app most certainly (who has plenty $ 
to upgrade)...


in the space in time between when the business hacker uses the product
until when he actually pays for the upgrade, if he cannot protect the 
stack, it could

make it virtually an unusable option.

4) Free means moving in the public domain, but frameworks in the public 
domain often contain intellectual property that must be protected. 
Photos, in our magazine are a good example, I *must* protect the PDF 
against extraction of images, even though it is patently obvious that 
anyone can take a screen shot, but legal culpability falls on that user, 
where as if I don't protect the PDF, culpability falls back on the 
publisher.  If I have an agreement with a photo agency for certain kinds 
of usage etcthere remain all kinds of grey areas that lawyers in NY 
are even as we speak, working hard on finding ways to unleash 
litigitious minds into the public domain... not knowing where one might 
stand in such a future quagmire, one will be simply cautious and protect 
the stack rather than live with the anxiety that the content must not 
be freely available on the internet -- whatever that means In the music 
world, its serious business.


5) developers have to make a living, put food on the table, pay for 
their kids education, go on vacation to Kauai to visit us here by the 
Wailua River if they can't protect their work, then that's a 
problem... some new developers may want to protect their work from the 
get go...


How many user of revMedia fall into categories 3-4-5?  Since they are 
the ones who have the $ to upgrade, why hobble their protection 
requirements at the beginning?


I don't have the answer... but those questions come to mind.






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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-09 Thread Mark Wieder
Mark-

Saturday, March 8, 2008, 6:03:04 PM, you wrote:

 It was my own fault - I had a custom property called 'password' (not
 for locking the stack) - completely forgetting that it's a reserved
 word...doh!

To help keep yourself out of trouble you might want to (re)read
Richard Gaskin's article at
http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html
especially the hints on variable naming. After experimenting a bit
with variations, I am now quite rigorous about sticking to the
guidelines laid down in this article. If we ever get real namespaces
this won't be as much of an issue.

-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread Richard Gaskin

Mark Smith wrote:

I'm working on a stack. I've had it open in 2.9 beta 5 and 2.8.1  
studio on OS X. I just went to edit it, and it's telling me that the  
stack is password protected, and asks me for the password. I have  
certainly not protected it this way, (I've never password protected  
any stack, I'm not sure I'd know how), so this protection is  
spurious. I've tried entering the various passwords that I use for  
other things, but no joy.


Any ideas how I can deal with this?


Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1 only?  If 
so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9:


http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523


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Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread Mark Smith
I'm working on a stack. I've had it open in 2.9 beta 5 and 2.8.1  
studio on OS X. I just went to edit it, and it's telling me that the  
stack is password protected, and asks me for the password. I have  
certainly not protected it this way, (I've never password protected  
any stack, I'm not sure I'd know how), so this protection is  
spurious. I've tried entering the various passwords that I use for  
other things, but no joy.


Any ideas how I can deal with this?

Best,

Mark
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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread Mark Smith
The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't  
realised there were special, classified bugs!


But in any case, no, I'm locked out in 2.9 and 2.8.1...

Mark

On 8 Mar 2008, at 19:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:




Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1  
only?  If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9:


http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523


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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread J. Landman Gay

Mark Smith wrote:
The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't 
realised there were special, classified bugs!


Me too, but I suspect there's no such entry. Maybe it should have 
referenced 3255?


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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread Mark Smith

I think you're right. I don't think this is related to bug 3255, though.

Best,

Mark

On 8 Mar 2008, at 20:55, J. Landman Gay wrote:


Mark Smith wrote:
The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I  
hadn't realised there were special, classified bugs!


Me too, but I suspect there's no such entry. Maybe it should have  
referenced 3255?


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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread Richard Gaskin

Mark Smith wrote:

 On 8 Mar 2008, at 19:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1
 only?  If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9:

 http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523

 The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't
 realised there were special, classified bugs!

Weird. When I click the link above it goes straight to my report.  Maybe 
once an issue's been closed only the original reporter has access?  I 
dunno, but here's the body of that report:


  Going from locked stack to unlocked in same window is weird

  When going from a password-protected stack to one that
  isn't password-protected in the same window, an error
  is generated when you attempt to edit the second
  stack's script.

   Using the attached example files, try this recipe:

   1. Open start_here.mc
   This stack is password-protected (password: test),
   but don't unlock it yet.

   2. Click the button in that stack.
   That will cause the second stack to be opened in the same
   window

   3. Try to edit the script of the second stack

   Result: you will get an error that the stack is
   password-protected, but you won't be able to edit it
   because the editor's check for passwords (password
   is not empty AND password  passKey) passes, yet the
   stack is flagged by the engine as locked.

   It would appear as though the password protection is
   mistakenly bound to the window, rather than the stack
   object.


   --- Comment #4 From Mark Waddingham 2007-11-20 01:13:38 

   Fixed in 2.9.0-dp-2 (Beta 9).


All this assumes, of course, that the password property of the stack in 
question is indeed empty.  Have you verified that that's the case?


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Re: Help! Spurious password protection...

2008-03-08 Thread Mark Smith
It was my own fault - I had a custom property called 'password' (not  
for locking the stack) - completely forgetting that it's a reserved  
word...doh!


Fortunately, the stack was at an early stage, so not much lost.

5523 is still off limits for me...

Thanks,

Mark

On 8 Mar 2008, at 23:15, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Mark Smith wrote:

 On 8 Mar 2008, at 19:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1
 only?  If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9:

 http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523

 The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I  
hadn't

 realised there were special, classified bugs!

Weird. When I click the link above it goes straight to my report.   
Maybe once an issue's been closed only the original reporter has  
access?  I dunno, but here's the body of that report:


  Going from locked stack to unlocked in same window is weird

  When going from a password-protected stack to one that
  isn't password-protected in the same window, an error
  is generated when you attempt to edit the second
  stack's script.

   Using the attached example files, try this recipe:

   1. Open start_here.mc
   This stack is password-protected (password: test),
   but don't unlock it yet.

   2. Click the button in that stack.
   That will cause the second stack to be opened in the same
   window

   3. Try to edit the script of the second stack

   Result: you will get an error that the stack is
   password-protected, but you won't be able to edit it
   because the editor's check for passwords (password
   is not empty AND password  passKey) passes, yet the
   stack is flagged by the engine as locked.

   It would appear as though the password protection is
   mistakenly bound to the window, rather than the stack
   object.


   --- Comment #4 From Mark Waddingham 2007-11-20 01:13:38 

   Fixed in 2.9.0-dp-2 (Beta 9).


All this assumes, of course, that the password property of the  
stack in question is indeed empty.  Have you verified that that's  
the case?


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Use RR Connect and Open MS Access DataBase with Password Protection.

2006-01-20 Thread alex wu
Hello,

Are there any example stacks teaching how to use RR to
connect and open a MS Access Database?  The MS Access
Database is password protected.

Thanks and best regards

Alex

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RE: Use RR Connect and Open MS Access DataBase with Password Protection.

2006-01-20 Thread Scott Kane

 Are there any example stacks teaching how to use RR to
 connect and open a MS Access Database?  The MS Access
 Database is password protected.

It should work like any other database in Rev,
except that you'd have to use ODBC.  As far as
passwords go if you know the password then you
can use it in the connection settings.  But if
you don't know it then you won't be able to
connect.  There are tools around the web for 
reverse engineering various database formats
including Access, but I've never tested them
and they only work on Windows.

Scott Kane

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Password Protection and Copying

2005-05-18 Thread Scott Rossi
Howdy List:

I have a copy-protected main stack from which I need to copy controls to a
substack.  Apparently, copying objects is disabled unless the passkey is
provided before copying.  This works OK, but then the password-protected
stack is left unprotected.  Is there any workaround for this -- any way to
restore the main stack's password while it is in memory?  (Rev 2.5.1)

Thanks  Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia  Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Password Protection and Copying

2005-05-18 Thread Dar Scott
On May 18, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
I have a copy-protected main stack from which I need to copy controls 
to a
substack.  Apparently, copying objects is disabled unless the passkey 
is
provided before copying.  This works OK, but then the 
password-protected
stack is left unprotected.  Is there any workaround for this -- any 
way to
restore the main stack's password while it is in memory?  (Rev 2.5.1)
I have a vague memory of setting passkey to empty.
Dar
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Re: Password Protection and Copying

2005-05-18 Thread Robert Brenstein
Howdy List:
I have a copy-protected main stack from which I need to copy controls to a
substack.  Apparently, copying objects is disabled unless the passkey is
provided before copying.  This works OK, but then the password-protected
stack is left unprotected.  Is there any workaround for this -- any way to
restore the main stack's password while it is in memory?  (Rev 2.5.1)
Thanks  Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia  Design

See bug 546 (yes, that old and with 25 votes).
Robert
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Re: Password Protection and Copying

2005-05-18 Thread Malte Brill
Hi Scott,
I just tried this:
on mouseUp
  set the passkey of this stack to wahasel
  copy me to stack mySubStack
 set the password of this stack to wahasel
 save this stack
 revert
end mouseUp
seems to work, but causes flicker.
Cheers,
Malte
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MCRipper password protection

2002-04-22 Thread JohnRule

 I did a test with MCRipper.  I built a stand alone stack
 which was password protected and used the encryption option.

 MCRipper didn't even show the stack so I could open it.
 Revolution also didn't see the stack.

 How then do you believe that this is hackable?  Or have
 I missed something somewhere?

Actually, I set the password and did not restart Revolution, so the stack was 
not really password protected...sorry for the mis-information on this issue.

It does look like hidden fields in a password protected stack ARE protected, 
as well as variables (please someone verify).


JR
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Re: User Level and Password Protection

2002-04-17 Thread Ken Ray

Rick,

Sure... sorry for being a little opaque. I believe someone on the list
earlier was using a stack to store images that he didn't want others who had
Revolution to be able to see (since they are copyright protected images).
Setting the password does not prevent someone from *opening* your stack; it
only prevents people from seeing your scripts. I was saying that there were
other methods necessary to prevent people from looking at card data that
could be implemented. But this doesn't seem to be needed in your case.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

- Original Message -
From: Richard Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: User Level and Password Protection


 on 4/16/2002 11:47 AM, Ken Ray at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Rick,
 
  You *can* set a password for your stacks to prevent people from looking
at
  your scripts. (Look under the password property in the Transcript
  Dictionary.) And you can set the cantModify of the stack to prevent
people
  from adding or changing data in your stacks. What you need to do
manually
  (if you need this at all) is to put something in to prevent certain
people
  from *looking* at the data in your stacks - this would need a login
screen
  or equivalent.
 
  Ken Ray

 Ken,

 Thanks for directing me in the correct direction.

 I'm not sure what you mean by something to prevent
 certain people from *looking* at the data in my stack.

 The only data they should be seeing is the data I want
 to show to them.  Other data is all in hidden fields.
 Could you be more verbose?

 Thanks,

 Rick


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User Level and Password Protection

2002-04-16 Thread Rick Harrison

Hi there,

I used to protect my Hypercard stacks
by using a password to change the
user level.  That way I was able to
control who saw my stack and who didn't.

Why was this standard abandoned by Revolution?

Now it is looking like anyone who owns a copy
of Revolution can see my code.  It is no wonder
to me that everyone is upset about this.

Any work arounds?

Thanks in advance,

Rick Harrison

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Re: User Level and Password Protection

2002-04-16 Thread Ken Ray

Rick,

You *can* set a password for your stacks to prevent people from looking at
your scripts. (Look under the password property in the Transcript
Dictionary.) And you can set the cantModify of the stack to prevent people
from adding or changing data in your stacks. What you need to do manually
(if you need this at all) is to put something in to prevent certain people
from *looking* at the data in your stacks - this would need a login screen
or equivalent.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

- Original Message -
From: Rick Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 10:18 AM
Subject: User Level and Password Protection


 Hi there,

 I used to protect my Hypercard stacks
 by using a password to change the
 user level.  That way I was able to
 control who saw my stack and who didn't.

 Why was this standard abandoned by Revolution?

 Now it is looking like anyone who owns a copy
 of Revolution can see my code.  It is no wonder
 to me that everyone is upset about this.

 Any work arounds?

 Thanks in advance,

 Rick Harrison

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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