Password protection
Hello everyone: I tried to password protect my stacks, but I must be missing some basic concept. I read the Password entry in the Dictionary, then I set the password on the Stacks screen of the Standalone Application Settings window, then I created my standalone. When I open the standalone, it doesn't ask for the password. Do I need to script that? I'm using Rev 4.0. Thanks. Paul Gabel___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Password protection
Hi Paul, Only the scripts are protected by that password. If you want any other kind of protection, you need to script it yourself (and those scripts are in turn protected by the password set in the standalone settings). -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer We have updated TwistAWord. Download TwistAWord 1.1 at http://www.twistaword.net Op 4 mei 2010, om 21:51 heeft Gabel Paul het volgende geschreven: Hello everyone: I tried to password protect my stacks, but I must be missing some basic concept. I read the Password entry in the Dictionary, then I set the password on the Stacks screen of the Standalone Application Settings window, then I created my standalone. When I open the standalone, it doesn't ask for the password. Do I need to script that? I'm using Rev 4.0. Thanks. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Password protection
Paul, The way i use with success is to protect the stack before going to the app builder in filling set the password of this stack to yourpassword in the messagebox before pressing enter and saving the stack. Works fine there and the stack just need to be in its unlocked state at the time you run the application builder process. Hope this help, Pierre Le 4 mai 2010 à 21:51, Gabel Paul a écrit : Hello everyone: I tried to password protect my stacks, but I must be missing some basic concept. I read the Password entry in the Dictionary, then I set the password on the Stacks screen of the Standalone Application Settings window, then I created my standalone. When I open the standalone, it doesn't ask for the password. Do I need to script that? I'm using Rev 4.0. Thanks. Paul Gabel___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Pierre Sahores mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 www.wrds.com www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
I do not beleive in totally free stuff, at least not concerning a major program one uses regularly and one relies upon. - From a practical point of view, we all want the language, the IDE to evolve as fast as possible and this costs and the end result cannot be free. - From a psychological point of view, I was happy buying out runrev at the start, with a nice discount. I jumped in came to like it (and hate it at the time too!) and was happy later on to pay again and more ! You're more likely to be happy to pay up, if you feel you have benefitted from a nice discount a time. Stepping from free to payment could be less easy. THere is an important saying in all education matters, psy coaching etc that paying something gives value to what your are doing, learning. The great opportunity we have with softwares is that we can reduce cost dramaticcaly if we manage to communicate at large. But it sounds much more solid to me if there remains some element of exchange, be it in the form of payment or sharing things with a community. Judy Perry wrote: I don't recall it being free for education ;-) Not that we didn't get a nice discount... Judy On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Ian Wood wrote: Unless my memory is failing, wasn't the predecessor to Dreamcard free? Or was that only to people in education? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25135185.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
There are many reasons why we opted to make revMedia a free product. I'll detail some of them here: 1) Students. To be candid, the greatest source of our current customers is former HyperCard users. This community is aging, and we must appeal to the next generations. Students, especially those in high school, often do not have credit cards. So we want to make it easy for them, as individuals, to acquire a great tool to learn programming -- and enjoy both immediate and long-term results/success. On a broader level, we want to make it very easy for schools and other educational groups to teach Rev to students. Free enables that. 2) Ubiquity. We definitely want revlets popping up all over the place. We'll be crafting nice made with Rev badges and other sorts of programs to encourage the viral distribution of Rev-based content. One of our greatest challenges right now is simple awareness. People don't know we exist, much less our distinct benefits relative to other Web coding options. Adobe and Microsoft have enormous advantages in this arena. Adobe Flash is available on just about every platform out there, including some mobile ones. Microsoft Silveright benefits from a vast installed base of .NET Programmers and their usual marketing machine. Anyone going to a Microsoft page gets prompted to install Silverlight, for example. Our advantage in being free lets people spend the time to learn our capabilities and produce great content with our tool. 3) Great content everyone can see. We have witnessed some truly amazing Rev solutions over the years, but we need more of them. Increasing the number of people using Rev ensures we will get fresh blood, new ideas, beautiful graphics, innovative applications. We're hard at work at renovating services like revOnline (like we did in 3.5) to make it easier for people to share and promote thier Rev-based work. Furthermore, it's far easier [and safer] for newcomers to see Rev in action when they can just click a couple times to install a plugin, then enjoy fast revlet downloads, as opposed to downloading and extracting/installing a standalone application. 4) It's 2009 and the Web is all about FREE. As Richard Gaskin has pointed out, the dollar cost of a license is the smallest expense associated with using a new product. What is truly expensive is time, attention, and effort. In order to earn consideration, we need to rethink how people learn about our product. A free trial version isn't enough; 30 days isn't enough. 10 lines isn't enough. However, a nicely capable free edition (revMedia) that publishes to the Web (today's most relevant platform) is a great way to get people into the Rev lifestyle and our unique mindset of programming. 5) Revenue. It's a numbers game, and we already know a certain percentage of people who get our trial version buy the product; a certain number of people who buy revMedia upgrade to revStudio; a certain number of revStudio users upgrade to revEnterprise. Increase the number of people using Rev, and you increase the number of people buying Rev. We do not expect there to be any cannibalization of revStudio or revEnterprise sales, as these products have distinct capabilities for serious/professional users, such as: database facilities, the data grid, the ability to use externals, the ability to remove/replace RunRev branding on the loading screen; the ability to make true standalone apps for Windows, Mac, and Linux, etc. As you might imagine, we've done a considerable amount of number crunching, analysis, and planning on this front... it's not really about philosophy. We're confident this is the best path to dramatically grow our user base and ensure a vibrant future for revTalk, a language we all have come to love and rely on. - Bill RunRev marketing guy ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Bill, A very good and thoughtful analysis. Thank you for sharing it with us. Paul Looney On Aug 25, 2009, at 12:37 PM, William Marriott wrote: There are many reasons why we opted to make revMedia a free product. I'll detail some of them here: 1) Students. To be candid, the greatest source of our current customers is former HyperCard users. This community is aging, and we must appeal to the next generations. Students, especially those in high school, often do not have credit cards. So we want to make it easy for them, as individuals, to acquire a great tool to learn programming -- and enjoy both immediate and long-term results/ success. On a broader level, we want to make it very easy for schools and other educational groups to teach Rev to students. Free enables that. 2) Ubiquity. We definitely want revlets popping up all over the place. We'll be crafting nice made with Rev badges and other sorts of programs to encourage the viral distribution of Rev-based content. One of our greatest challenges right now is simple awareness. People don't know we exist, much less our distinct benefits relative to other Web coding options. Adobe and Microsoft have enormous advantages in this arena. Adobe Flash is available on just about every platform out there, including some mobile ones. Microsoft Silveright benefits from a vast installed base of .NET Programmers and their usual marketing machine. Anyone going to a Microsoft page gets prompted to install Silverlight, for example. Our advantage in being free lets people spend the time to learn our capabilities and produce great content with our tool. 3) Great content everyone can see. We have witnessed some truly amazing Rev solutions over the years, but we need more of them. Increasing the number of people using Rev ensures we will get fresh blood, new ideas, beautiful graphics, innovative applications. We're hard at work at renovating services like revOnline (like we did in 3.5) to make it easier for people to share and promote thier Rev-based work. Furthermore, it's far easier [and safer] for newcomers to see Rev in action when they can just click a couple times to install a plugin, then enjoy fast revlet downloads, as opposed to downloading and extracting/installing a standalone application. 4) It's 2009 and the Web is all about FREE. As Richard Gaskin has pointed out, the dollar cost of a license is the smallest expense associated with using a new product. What is truly expensive is time, attention, and effort. In order to earn consideration, we need to rethink how people learn about our product. A free trial version isn't enough; 30 days isn't enough. 10 lines isn't enough. However, a nicely capable free edition (revMedia) that publishes to the Web (today's most relevant platform) is a great way to get people into the Rev lifestyle and our unique mindset of programming. 5) Revenue. It's a numbers game, and we already know a certain percentage of people who get our trial version buy the product; a certain number of people who buy revMedia upgrade to revStudio; a certain number of revStudio users upgrade to revEnterprise. Increase the number of people using Rev, and you increase the number of people buying Rev. We do not expect there to be any cannibalization of revStudio or revEnterprise sales, as these products have distinct capabilities for serious/professional users, such as: database facilities, the data grid, the ability to use externals, the ability to remove/replace RunRev branding on the loading screen; the ability to make true standalone apps for Windows, Mac, and Linux, etc. As you might imagine, we've done a considerable amount of number crunching, analysis, and planning on this front... it's not really about philosophy. We're confident this is the best path to dramatically grow our user base and ensure a vibrant future for revTalk, a language we all have come to love and rely on. - Bill RunRev marketing guy ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On Aug 25, 2009, at 3:37 PM, William Marriott wrote: 5) Revenue. It's a numbers game, I'm sure you meant runRevenue... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Thanks for sharing these arguments, William. I find them fully convincing in favor of a fully free unrestricted revMedia. These thoughts are also important for all developers to decide how best to distribute their apps. I pointed out I felt it would be good for the language to : 1) develop the sharing habit of utilities, eductionalWare, libraries. Maybe runrev can think of some innovative incentive to do so. The issue raised in that thread has some relations with that question since, obviously, disallowing password protection for the first entry level was a way to enforce sharing. It may not be the best way, and I hope better ways will be tried. 2) provide solutions to better monitor the runrev user base. I might be a good idea to set up a kind of revWeb search engine that will gather all pages using the plugin. It is peculiar to runrev to communicate very few information on the user base. And there are very few examples of commercial softwares using runrev on the home site. Such a search engine might help lift up interrogations by potential users. Robert -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25141396.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On Tue Aug 25, 2009; William Marriott wjm at wjm.org wrote: There are many reasons why we opted to make revMedia a free product. I'll detail some of them here: 1) Students. (snip) 2) Ubiquity. (snip) 3) Great content everyone can see. (snip) 4) It's 2009 and the Web is all about FREE. (snip) 5) Revenue. (snip) - Bill RunRev marketing guy Bill, I am really happy that you eventually have re-introduced a free version. In 2001 the Rev team strongly opposed such deliberations, mainly because of economical reasons. Here is a part of my post sent to Kevin (Miller) some days ago, when I extended my license up to 2013. I congratulate you on the decision to offer one version of Revolution to the public for free. In 2001 we both had an exchange on the Revolution list about such free versions. I had proposed to you to continue to support the Metacard version - as some sort of Revolution Light - and either offer it for free or at a very low price. Such a step - in my opinion - would have been necessary, because at that time you discontinued the free Starter Kit versions - from economical reasons as you stated it, if I remember correctly. Not having at my disposal such Starter Kits has impeded my work to some substantial degree with students at our university. We were however lucky to be able to continue to use the old Starter Kit versions (which one could extend up to version 2.5), but were of course unable to work with newly introduced features.- Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Robert Maniquant wrote: 1) develop the sharing habit of utilities, eductionalWare, libraries. Maybe runrev can think of some innovative incentive to do so. Something like this could help: http://ced.ncsu.edu/mmania/ i serve as judge in one of the editions of this event. Students sent websites, with multiple pages, powerpoint presentations, quicktime videos and stacks created with HyperStudio. MultimediaMania was halted for a lack of sponsors. Ideally winners prices will be sponsored by hardware manufacturers like Dell, HP, Lenovo or Acer, for a teacher tutor and students. Schools could receive training for their teachers. Robert Maniquant wrote: 2) provide solutions to better monitor the runrev user base. I might be a good idea to set up a kind of revWeb search engine that will gather all pages using the plugin. It is peculiar to runrev to communicate very few information on the user base. And there are very few examples of commercial softwares using runrev on the home site. Such a search engine might help lift up interrogations by potential users. Actually, i have never informed Rev about any Commercial Standalone i have created or had participated. i do not feel obligated to report the type of work that i create in Rev. Why other developers should? By the way, in the Quality Control Center page for this request, Kevin wrote: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8234 To respond to the actual request here, i.e. in relation to sharing of stacks / libraries / etc, revMedia does not allow you to password protect a stack. Nor does it allow you to unlock a password protected stack created in another edition. The revlet format is encoded and will be non-trivial to reverse engineer. -- Now, if somebody want password protection in revMedia, it will be neccesary to fill an enhancement request... al -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25142582.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Peter Alcibiades wrote: Leave it in. If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it. Leaving it out is just an attempt to irritate the user. People don't upgrade because they are irritated, but because they are pleased. When they get irritated, they think about finding a different solution. I will second that! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On 24 Aug 2009, at 09:24, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Peter Alcibiades wrote: Leave it in. If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it. Leaving it out is just an attempt to irritate the user. People don't upgrade because they are irritated, but because they are pleased. When they get irritated, they think about finding a different solution. I will second that! Thirded. I can't see disabling password protection of stacks in RevMedia doing anything other than irritate potential users. People will upgrade for the ability to build standalones, not to be able to password a stack. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
I'm on the fence with this one. My definite preference would be to enable the SSL libraries on the all versions, so that we can use proper security and access web services that require SSL - I suspect the need for this function to grow rapidly as more and more web services move over to tighter security models - the right balance of openness and incentive to upgrade would be include ssl in the free versions but easy stack level encryption in paid models. This debate is parallel to the debate between different types of open source license - GPL or more liberal licenses like MIT. In this debate there is a trade off between encouraging businesses to adopt, and encouraging code to flow back to the community. In this context RunRev are using features of the engine to do the equivalent of what the GPL / MIT licenses do - the MIT license allows you to lock your code additions away and not feed them back, the GPL forces everyone to feedback. The argument for removing the ability to password protect stacks is a good one (thanks capellan) - but just like the GPL, the debate is open with regard to whether it has a greater effect on stimulating the creation of robust public domain/open source libraries than more liberal licenses. For marketing reasons alone, whichever the choice of strategy, I've long encouraged RunRev to adopt a clear open source strategy. A very clear signal would be sent if they explicitly built in the ability to license and publish code from within the editor. Allowing / disallowing certain features in the engine can also express / help enforce the same policy - but it is more important to work with the community and encourage clear licensing arrangements. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On 24 Aug 2009, at 10:14, David Bovill wrote: The argument for removing the ability to password protect stacks is a good one (thanks capellan) So far the arguments that I've read in the thread could be summarised as 'other things are limited in revMedia, so this should be as well to make people upgrade'. Or am I missing a post somewhere? Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
2009/8/24 Ian Wood revl...@azurevision.co.uk On 24 Aug 2009, at 10:14, David Bovill wrote: The argument for removing the ability to password protect stacks is a good one (thanks capellan) So far the arguments that I've read in the thread could be summarised as 'other things are limited in revMedia, so this should be as well to make people upgrade'. True - no one likes that. I especially did not like it with regard to SSL functionality :) But you've got to admit it is in everyone's interest to maintain strong incentives for people to upgrade and therefore provide RunRev the revenue stream they need to keep developing the language. I'm interested in tools, licenses, and social media that encourage collaborative efforts - whether open source or simply online communities and user generated content. In that context I'd argue that creating a free environment in which *the code is unlockable* and encouraging open source licenses for such code is technique worth considering for any company aiming to increase the user base for a computer language. It is controversial because we don't have good studies (yet) around these issues. It would be interesting to ask whether a version of JavaScript that allowed the code to be locked would have taken off more quickly or slower than JavaScript that you could not lock, and everyone could read, hack and learn from? We simply don't know. In the case of JavaScript - my guess is that allowing the code to be locked would have quite seriously damaged it's uptake and stimulated java based solutions. However I'm not coming down hard on either side - I just think it is a good question. My intuition on this lean towards 1. Preventing locked/closed code suits organisations with small language communities and where developing robust user generated libraries is a priority. 2. I'd lean towards the allow locking/close sourcing for larger or established language communities, with a wide array of existing libraries, where you want to encourage commercial language markets for components. But then there is no good evidence either way for this - all we can do for now is keep a close eye on these collaborative communities and see what works and does not through trial and error. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Fourthed (if there is such a thing). Educational use is for me the deciding factor. George On Aug 24, 2009, at 5:00 AM, Ian Wood wrote: On 24 Aug 2009, at 09:24, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Peter Alcibiades wrote: Leave it in. If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it. Leaving it out is just an attempt to irritate the user. People don't upgrade because they are irritated, but because they are pleased. When they get irritated, they think about finding a different solution. I will second that! Thirded. I can't see disabling password protection of stacks in RevMedia doing anything other than irritate potential users. People will upgrade for the ability to build standalones, not to be able to password a stack. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
For or against password protection in the free runrev version? We chose to live in a world where exchange is at the basis of a lot of things. The openSOurce movement also rests on that basis : I give my code for free, but In exchange, i'll get a lot more for free too. Well, How do I live as a programmer? Maybe i manage to sell a few (or a lot!) of tailored made solutions, which I can do in less time since I share all these goodies. So far I understand, both universe (commercial and shared open source) live hand in hand and should work han in hand. That leaves us with a refined question which scope extends further than just the password protection : how can runrev favor the growth of a really cool network of passionates and professionals with two levels : 1) share as many ressources as possible 2) sell the one that needs to, thus virtually creating a new market segment. Same question arises for the grand public at large : how to share as many ressources as possible and how to sell as many as possible too! So far it seems that the group of runrev users managed to keep a very good group ware attitude. i am very grateful to all the people who published stacks who helped me grasp a few more things, and I will not miss the occasion myself to do the same. I do not know about other languages since I chose to concentrate on runrev, and am happy with this choice. I did notice though, that the new version of runrev online has had much less succes than the original on in terms of number of stacks shared. Also classification of stack is really bad to my view.. So that leads me to the following idea : there should be an incentive to publish and share stacks and libraries, (and perhaps a kind of penality for people who never do share anything... ?) So my pratical proposition is : a) to remove the possibility to protect a stack in the fully free version for standAlones and for the web version b) to ask the same price as former runrev media entry level to allow protection (it was around 50 dollars). [This is already a big improvement since previously for 50 dollars you could not create a standalone]. c) Studio and enterprise pricing seem ok to me. The SSL thingy should be made more widely avaailable too, WHEN and only when its use will be more widespsread and less expensive (to day SSL requires quite a few expensives ceritficates anyways, so useless for everybody as things are yet). and d) REWARD people who share stacks on revOnline by sending them free upgrade coupons to the protected version. And free purchase coupons for studio and enterprise versions. Also have a section shared stacks in the monthly newsletter and put forward people who participate letting the have an occasion to promote their products and services around runrev. As well as a yearly prize of best shared stacks to honor their donors! == It cost nothing to runrev to do so == it is normal to reward people for participating == it is essential to communicate on the need to establish a great community (this was one of the basis of HYPERCARD). e) setUp a much better exchange network for all runrev developpers, a kind of runrev market place. With well thought sharing strategies and rules. And a place to make community bids to encourage developpers add some libraries by sharing the cost among as many users as possible. (I' de really need a better audio library but can't afford it alone!! smile!) ANNOUCEMENT I would personnaly like to participate it he setting up of such a platform and I do make a call here to constitute a pilot group !! PLease, any people interested, drop a private message, thanks. I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in providing a full version totally free and not making a very big point on the groupWare attitude which is very intelligent, sexy and really efficient, but which needs to be actively SUSTAINED (and not only talked about as a selling argument.. ). But.. it's by doing and taking the plunge that things happen so, nice move runrev! -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25118837.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On 24 Aug 2009, at 17:10, Robert Maniquant wrote: I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in providing a full version totally free For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several years ago... Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Ian Wood wrote: On 24 Aug 2009, at 17:10, Robert Maniquant wrote: I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in providing a full version totally free For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several years ago... Which version was that? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On 24 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ian Wood wrote: For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several years ago... Which version was that? Unless my memory is failing, wasn't the predecessor to Dreamcard free? Or was that only to people in education? Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
setUp a much better exchange network for all runrev developpers, a kind of runrev market place sorry for the plug www.revdevelop.com is that something like what you were talking about? lower end version has gone *back* to being free yup.. when Rev first came out (and MetaCard was still around) there was a free starter kit version that allowed you full access to the IDE/ language with a 10-line script limit, and you were able to build standalone too.. Personally I think the ability to lock stacks is a great way for people to share them and not have to worry about having code lifted.. Here is a nice example: - someone downloads revMedia and develops some little stacks here and there and releases them with source unlocked - after a couple of months they get the hang of Rev and are looking at upgrading to Studio (or even Enterprise), but sadly funds are short and they cannot afford to (starving student, shareware authour, etc ;-) - they write a really cool library that some people have been asking for on the mailing list at this point if they were not able to password protect it, there is no way you would be able to sell the library because people could go in and remove your demo code, etc, etc.. password protection of the library will allow that person to sell their library, get some money and upgrade their copy of Rev (or buy something for their mom) -Sean ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Randall Reetz wrote: You are right, I was confused about the thread. I thought it was a larger discussion about general product marketing and revenue models. sorry David has brought the issue into very clear focus. David, thanks for taking the time to elucidate this so well. Whether to go open source or not is another big discussion. I'm not competent to enter in there. But on the locking of stacks made by a free product - revmedia: David wrote: This debate is parallel to the debate between different types of open source license - GPL or more liberal licenses like MIT. In this debate there is a trade off between encouraging businesses to adopt, and encouraging code to flow back to the community. Much as I love the flow back to the community principle, it probably has to fall the other way. Another piece in this big puzzle: Here in house we are deeply focused right now on the e-book revolution, every day pumping PDF's up to scribed kindle etc. and watching trends... and this is also tying into the edu world where ink on paper text books, and even PDF's of materials originally designed for print, one might say are something that will be fading. With HP's possible big contract in California to sell their notebook emasse to schools and text book publishers scrambling to deal with the inevitable digital delivery of the former 12 pound engineering text. Revmedia has a possible huge market share about to open up. Educators at least will need security, not necessarily to only to hide their stack code, but for all kinds of other reasons (test answers, access to records, url's pointing to content on servers, proprietary imagery, music) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Richard Gaskin wrote: Ian Wood wrote: On 24 Aug 2009, at 17:10, Robert Maniquant wrote: I have the feeling that runrev went TOO FAR TOO QUICKLY ahaed in providing a full version totally free For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several years ago... Which version was that? Lurking on my hard drives, somewhere, are various versions of Runtime Revolution: 2.0.1 backwards - that allowed one to make stacks, and standalones from those stacks, as long as each object contained no more than 10 lines of code. I developed a CD for musical instruction in Scottish schools (got badly diddled by the person whi hired me; but that is another story), the Agent-led GUI for my MSc thesis, and a CD for Bulgarian school-kids to prep for their Bulgarian literature exams with RR 2.0.1. As I do not, currently, own any version of RunRev post 2.0.1 (except for the totally free 2.2.1 version put out by Novell a few years back) that is capable of producing standalones, on the very few occasions I have had to produce standalones for either Mac or Windows I have used 2.0.1. revMedia 4B is both better and worse if compared with RunRev 2.0.1: it can tolerate unlimited lines of code (I know, I've been up to my eyeballs in lengthy, extremely tedious scripts recently), but cannot produce standalones. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Richmond wrote: Richard Gaskin wrote: Ian Wood wrote: For historical accuracy, it's probably worth pointing out that the lower end version has gone *back* to being free like it was several years ago... Which version was that? Lurking on my hard drives, somewhere, are various versions of Runtime Revolution: 2.0.1 backwards - that allowed one to make stacks, and standalones from those stacks, as long as each object contained no more than 10 lines of code. Ah yes - I'd forgotten that RunRev used to honor the same licensing MC did. It was amazing what some folks came up with within those limits, like you did with your musical instruction stacks. I can understand why RR moved to time-based trials, but for a language this rich and unique having RevMedia for free lets people spend much more time to really get a feel for what they can do with it. 30 days just wasn't enough for a sole-source proprietary language. A very good change, much better than the old scriptLimits-based option. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
I don't recall it being free for education ;-) Not that we didn't get a nice discount... Judy On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Ian Wood wrote: Unless my memory is failing, wasn't the predecessor to Dreamcard free? Or was that only to people in education? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Le 23 août 09 à 06:34, Sivakatirswami a écrit : capellan wrote: Hi all, This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4. filled in Report # 8234. Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to password protect your scripts should be allowed only in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like the options to use encryption, Business databases and SSL. Can you provide more compelling reasons for disabling password protection? (aside from compelling users to move to a paid version) I'm more interested that revMedia take off in the viral sense of being widely used, RunRev RevTalk brand becomes as sweet and common as honey in your lemonade. The question of whether disabling protection enhances or dampens the jet fuel that could push RevMedia to a wider audience needs to be answered. in the old hypercard days, could you protect stacks? I can't remember, it's been so long Hypercard was free (but without standalone capability) because that was a requirement by Bill Atkinson. Password protection was the only way to do business with HC in these days. Then (I do not remember in which order) standalones were possible and the IDE was not free anymore. However there was still a free player. I think the defeat of Hypercard lied in its inability to compile for the PC, which was itself due to the particular way it was implemented by Atkinson. Remember that, at that times, MS windows was unusable. Making HC a non free developing environment killed the grass root enthusiasm for HC. Did this prevent or enhance Hypercard's popularity? 1) Young people probably won't care, even if they can protect there stuff, they may choose to let others see their scripts. 2) teachers will, as pointed out 3) anyone doing a lo-level business app most certainly (who has plenty $ to upgrade)... in the space in time between when the business hacker uses the product until when he actually pays for the upgrade, if he cannot protect the stack, it could make it virtually an unusable option. snip I think the free revMedia should not be over crippled. Adoption by hobbyists is important to make the environment popular. By hobbyist I mean people which will make a limited but happy use of rev but would have never considered buying the product in the first place. I add that a one month demo is not enough for a person who has a non IT full time work to get acquainted with a programming environment. RunRev can cripple the free version later; this always possible. But give the baby a chance before. François a hobbyist with just enough money and interest to pay for a studio edition. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
I echo francios' sentiment. Lock-in happens only after viral adoption. There are of course revenue models other than retail purchase of tool license. It would be entirely possible to give the product away, and charge only a percentage of a user's income as a result of said tool. There are tracking and enforcement issues with such a model, but good will and easy uptake by potential paying customers becomes more benevolent and reasonable. Trust is a valid way to approach one's customers. When I was in university, there was a bookshop in the local town without employees. Just a box at the front door. If you found a book you wanted, you wrote the name of the book on an envelope, put cash in that envelope, and dropped it into the slot on the top of the box as you left. They said these was far less than theft in other book stores. People like to be trusted. randall -Original Message- From: François Chaplais francois.chapl...@mines-paristech.fr Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:29 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks Le 23 août 09 à 06:34, Sivakatirswami a écrit : capellan wrote: Hi all, This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4. filled in Report # 8234. Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to password protect your scripts should be allowed only in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like the options to use encryption, Business databases and SSL. Can you provide more compelling reasons for disabling password protection? (aside from compelling users to move to a paid version) I'm more interested that revMedia take off in the viral sense of being widely used, RunRev RevTalk brand becomes as sweet and common as honey in your lemonade. The question of whether disabling protection enhances or dampens the jet fuel that could push RevMedia to a wider audience needs to be answered. in the old hypercard days, could you protect stacks? I can't remember, it's been so long Hypercard was free (but without standalone capability) because that was a requirement by Bill Atkinson. Password protection was the only way to do business with HC in these days. Then (I do not remember in which order) standalones were possible and the IDE was not free anymore. However there was still a free player. I think the defeat of Hypercard lied in its inability to compile for the PC, which was itself due to the particular way it was implemented by Atkinson. Remember that, at that times, MS windows was unusable. Making HC a non free developing environment killed the grass root enthusiasm for HC. Did this prevent or enhance Hypercard's popularity? 1) Young people probably won't care, even if they can protect there stuff, they may choose to let others see their scripts. 2) teachers will, as pointed out 3) anyone doing a lo-level business app most certainly (who has plenty $ to upgrade)... in the space in time between when the business hacker uses the product until when he actually pays for the upgrade, if he cannot protect the stack, it could make it virtually an unusable option. snip I think the free revMedia should not be over crippled. Adoption by hobbyists is important to make the environment popular. By hobbyist I mean people which will make a limited but happy use of rev but would have never considered buying the product in the first place. I add that a one month demo is not enough for a person who has a non IT full time work to get acquainted with a programming environment. RunRev can cripple the free version later; this always possible. But give the baby a chance before. François a hobbyist with just enough money and interest to pay for a studio edition. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Randall Reetz wrote: I echo francios' sentiment. Lock-in happens only after viral adoption. There are of course revenue models other than retail purchase of tool license. It would be entirely possible to give the product away, and charge only a percentage of a user's income as a result of said tool. There are tracking and enforcement issues with such a model, but good will and easy uptake by potential paying customers becomes more benevolent and reasonable. Trust is a valid way to approach one's customers. When I was in university, there was a bookshop in the local town without employees. Just a box at the front door. If you found a book you wanted, you wrote the name of the book on an envelope, put cash in that envelope, and dropped it into the slot on the top of the box as you left. They said these was far less than theft in other book stores. People like to be trusted. randall Randall: This thread is about whether or not password protection should be disabled for RevMedia 4 stacks. What is your point relative to that subject? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Wow. -Original Message- From: Sivakatirswami ka...@hindu.org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:46 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks Randall Reetz wrote: I echo francios' sentiment. Lock-in happens only after viral adoption. There are of course revenue models other than retail purchase of tool license. It would be entirely possible to give the product away, and charge only a percentage of a user's income as a result of said tool. There are tracking and enforcement issues with such a model, but good will and easy uptake by potential paying customers becomes more benevolent and reasonable. Trust is a valid way to approach one's customers. When I was in university, there was a bookshop in the local town without employees. Just a box at the front door. If you found a book you wanted, you wrote the name of the book on an envelope, put cash in that envelope, and dropped it into the slot on the top of the box as you left. They said these was far less than theft in other book stores. People like to be trusted. randall Randall: This thread is about whether or not password protection should be disabled for RevMedia 4 stacks. What is your point relative to that subject? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
wow that was totally a douche bag move there sivakatirswami Apparently his point was lost on you so let me try to clarify it: do not take away the ability to password protect until after revMedia has blossomed like a lotus I remember the old days of HyperCard stacks and I still have a few floppy disks worth of stuff kicking around here, but back on tangent, getting stacks (locked or not) allowed for HC to really spread out amongst the community and even allowed a few people to sell stacks (due to the fact they could lock them) even though HC (and then HC Player) were free.. I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On Aug 23, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Shao Sean wrote: I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia One possible model that might work could be like 3D Warehouse. There you can go and download almost any kind of 3D model you might want, and everyone who uploaded the models has agreed to allow any use of the model as it is, or for anyone to modify it and pass it on. A revMediaHouse could be a place to upload stacks you want to share with the world, and anyone could download it, or use it immediately in a browser. As part of the upload agreement you would have made sure not to password protect the stack. You could still put in promotional things for your commercial stacks, which you may have protected. Incidentally, I never password protected any of my HyperCard stack floppies or CD-ROMs, and even my Director based CD-ROMs had the original source code buried in a folder on the disc. The way I saw it, that way I had thousands of backup copies of my code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
A revMediaHouse could be a place to upload stacks you want to share with the world where were you when i was thinking of names? i will let a kitten out of the bag, watch for an announcement near the end of this week ;-) if you are really curious, feel free to email me off-list info AT shaosean DOT tk ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
On Aug 23, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Shao Sean wrote: A revMediaHouse could be a place to upload stacks you want to share with the world where were you when i was thinking of names? i will let a kitten out of the bag, watch for an announcement near the end of this week ;-) You probably called it wehoststacks.com. Which is available in case you're now curious. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
You probably called it wehoststacks.com. nope, but if no-one else grabs it i will see about getting it (please no-one else grab it ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Leave it in. If I were doing stuff in education, I'd want it. Leaving it out is just an attempt to irritate the user. People don't upgrade because they are irritated, but because they are pleased. When they get irritated, they think about finding a different solution. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25110293.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Well Ha! Jai Ganesha! (smile) I've never been called that until today. Interesting I had to look it up: douche bag: informal, a loathsome or contemptible person (used as a term of abuse). Actually I'm not *that* bad, really... Seriously, I was the one who mentioned that we want it to go viral... and I could not understand how Randall's discussion of lock in and selling books in a book store without employees on trust relates to the issue of whether to disable the stack protection feature on the free product (revMedia) It seemed we were mixing up the issue of whether the product should be free, with the issue of whether the free product should allow users to protect their stacks. i.e. my question on how does it relate was not meant as a jab, but as a real question. He said People like to be trusted. true... so, Randall does *not* want password protection of stacks in the free product? i.e. he's voted with Capellan? and if so, why? wasn't clear to meit still isn't, I must be dense. But, seems most of us are on the same page: we don't want to disable that feature i.e. let anyone lock their stacks if they want to. Many who are not just hobbists, but doing real work, will not use it if they *can't* secure their data. On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Shao Sean shaos...@wehostmacs.com wrote: wow that was totally a douche bag move there sivakatirswami Apparently his point was lost on you so let me try to clarify it: do not take away the ability to password protect until after revMedia has blossomed like a lotus I remember the old days of HyperCard stacks and I still have a few floppy disks worth of stuff kicking around here, but back on tangent, getting stacks (locked or not) allowed for HC to really spread out amongst the community and even allowed a few people to sell stacks (due to the fact they could lock them) even though HC (and then HC Player) were free.. I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
You are right, I was confused about the thread. I thought it was a larger discussion about general product marketing and revenue models. sorry -Original Message- From: Sannyasin Sivakatirswami ka...@hindu.org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:28 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks Well Ha! Jai Ganesha! (smile) I've never been called that until today. Interesting I had to look it up: douche bag: informal, a loathsome or contemptible person (used as a term of abuse). Actually I'm not *that* bad, really... Seriously, I was the one who mentioned that we want it to go viral... and I could not understand how Randall's discussion of lock in and selling books in a book store without employees on trust relates to the issue of whether to disable the stack protection feature on the free product (revMedia) It seemed we were mixing up the issue of whether the product should be free, with the issue of whether the free product should allow users to protect their stacks. i.e. my question on how does it relate was not meant as a jab, but as a real question. He said People like to be trusted. true... so, Randall does *not* want password protection of stacks in the free product? i.e. he's voted with Capellan? and if so, why? wasn't clear to meit still isn't, I must be dense. But, seems most of us are on the same page: we don't want to disable that feature i.e. let anyone lock their stacks if they want to. Many who are not just hobbists, but doing real work, will not use it if they *can't* secure their data. On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Shao Sean shaos...@wehostmacs.com wrote: wow that was totally a douche bag move there sivakatirswami Apparently his point was lost on you so let me try to clarify it: do not take away the ability to password protect until after revMedia has blossomed like a lotus I remember the old days of HyperCard stacks and I still have a few floppy disks worth of stuff kicking around here, but back on tangent, getting stacks (locked or not) allowed for HC to really spread out amongst the community and even allowed a few people to sell stacks (due to the fact they could lock them) even though HC (and then HC Player) were free.. I personally vote to leave the locking of stacks in revMedia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Hi all, This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4. filled in Report # 8234. Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to password protect your scripts should be allowed only in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like the options to use encryption, Business databases and SSL. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25096861.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Alejandro wrote: This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4. filled in Report # 8234. Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to password protect your scripts should be allowed only in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like the options to use encryption, Business databases and SSL. Good suggestion. I'm inclined to agree, as one more way to make the purchase of a license compelling. But before I vote I have to ask: Could there be security considerations for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Richard Gaskin wrote: But before I vote I have to ask: Could there be security considerations for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability? Minimized? Do you mean: How could revMedia 4 end users will be affected if they could not password protect their stacks? For example, if a teacher creates a multiple-choice test, all correct answers will be available to anyone that uses the IDE... :-( and surely there should exists many more examples of users affected in some way. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25097187.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
capellan wrote: Richard Gaskin wrote: But before I vote I have to ask: Could there be security considerations for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability? Minimized? Do you mean: How could revMedia 4 end users will be affected if they could not password protect their stacks? For example, if a teacher creates a multiple-choice test, all correct answers will be available to anyone that uses the IDE... :-( and surely there should exists many more examples of users affected in some way. Surely the disabling of the ability to password protect stacks should not be implemented before the pay versions become available. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
capellan wrote: Richard Gaskin wrote: But before I vote I have to ask: Could there be security considerations for the end-user or RunRev which are minimized with this ability? Minimized? Do you mean: How could revMedia 4 end users will be affected if they could not password protect their stacks? For example, if a teacher creates a multiple-choice test, all correct answers will be available to anyone that uses the IDE... :-( Not really, if the questions and answers are stored outwith the stack in some sort of encoded document! Obviously without the ability to password protect stacks the programmer who wants to protect his/her data (i.e. stuff other than scripts) will have to make an extra effort - but in computer-land all things are password protectable, and all password protection is crackable . . . So, quite frankly, why bother about this at all? and surely there should exists many more examples of users affected in some way. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
Richmond Mathewson-2 wrote: Not really, if the questions and answers are stored out with the stack in some sort of encoded document! Obviously without the ability to password protect stacks the programmer who wants to protect his/her data (i.e. stuff other than scripts) will have to make an extra effort - but in computer-land all things are password protectable, and all password protection is crackable . . . So, quite frankly, why bother about this at all? Then, if using password encryption is the same as not using it, you are going to add your vote to dissable password protection in revMedia 4. Right? By the way, if all password protection is crackable... Could anybody, in this mail list, deprotect the script of my stack: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Learn_Japanese_Syllabaries_v092.zip Have a nice weekend! alejandro -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Vote-to-disable-password-protection-for-revMedia-4-stacks-tp25096861p25097522.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Vote to disable password protection for revMedia 4 stacks
capellan wrote: Hi all, This is an enhancement request for revMedia 4. filled in Report # 8234. Given that revMedia 4 will be free, the option to password protect your scripts should be allowed only in Studio and Enterprise versions of Rev, just like the options to use encryption, Business databases and SSL. Can you provide more compelling reasons for disabling password protection? (aside from compelling users to move to a paid version) I'm more interested that revMedia take off in the viral sense of being widely used, RunRev RevTalk brand becomes as sweet and common as honey in your lemonade. The question of whether disabling protection enhances or dampens the jet fuel that could push RevMedia to a wider audience needs to be answered. in the old hypercard days, could you protect stacks? I can't remember, it's been so long Did this prevent or enhance Hypercard's popularity? 1) Young people probably won't care, even if they can protect there stuff, they may choose to let others see their scripts. 2) teachers will, as pointed out 3) anyone doing a lo-level business app most certainly (who has plenty $ to upgrade)... in the space in time between when the business hacker uses the product until when he actually pays for the upgrade, if he cannot protect the stack, it could make it virtually an unusable option. 4) Free means moving in the public domain, but frameworks in the public domain often contain intellectual property that must be protected. Photos, in our magazine are a good example, I *must* protect the PDF against extraction of images, even though it is patently obvious that anyone can take a screen shot, but legal culpability falls on that user, where as if I don't protect the PDF, culpability falls back on the publisher. If I have an agreement with a photo agency for certain kinds of usage etcthere remain all kinds of grey areas that lawyers in NY are even as we speak, working hard on finding ways to unleash litigitious minds into the public domain... not knowing where one might stand in such a future quagmire, one will be simply cautious and protect the stack rather than live with the anxiety that the content must not be freely available on the internet -- whatever that means In the music world, its serious business. 5) developers have to make a living, put food on the table, pay for their kids education, go on vacation to Kauai to visit us here by the Wailua River if they can't protect their work, then that's a problem... some new developers may want to protect their work from the get go... How many user of revMedia fall into categories 3-4-5? Since they are the ones who have the $ to upgrade, why hobble their protection requirements at the beginning? I don't have the answer... but those questions come to mind. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
Mark- Saturday, March 8, 2008, 6:03:04 PM, you wrote: It was my own fault - I had a custom property called 'password' (not for locking the stack) - completely forgetting that it's a reserved word...doh! To help keep yourself out of trouble you might want to (re)read Richard Gaskin's article at http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html especially the hints on variable naming. After experimenting a bit with variations, I am now quite rigorous about sticking to the guidelines laid down in this article. If we ever get real namespaces this won't be as much of an issue. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
Mark Smith wrote: I'm working on a stack. I've had it open in 2.9 beta 5 and 2.8.1 studio on OS X. I just went to edit it, and it's telling me that the stack is password protected, and asks me for the password. I have certainly not protected it this way, (I've never password protected any stack, I'm not sure I'd know how), so this protection is spurious. I've tried entering the various passwords that I use for other things, but no joy. Any ideas how I can deal with this? Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1 only? If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Help! Spurious password protection...
I'm working on a stack. I've had it open in 2.9 beta 5 and 2.8.1 studio on OS X. I just went to edit it, and it's telling me that the stack is password protected, and asks me for the password. I have certainly not protected it this way, (I've never password protected any stack, I'm not sure I'd know how), so this protection is spurious. I've tried entering the various passwords that I use for other things, but no joy. Any ideas how I can deal with this? Best, Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't realised there were special, classified bugs! But in any case, no, I'm locked out in 2.9 and 2.8.1... Mark On 8 Mar 2008, at 19:32, Richard Gaskin wrote: Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1 only? If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
Mark Smith wrote: The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't realised there were special, classified bugs! Me too, but I suspect there's no such entry. Maybe it should have referenced 3255? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
I think you're right. I don't think this is related to bug 3255, though. Best, Mark On 8 Mar 2008, at 20:55, J. Landman Gay wrote: Mark Smith wrote: The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't realised there were special, classified bugs! Me too, but I suspect there's no such entry. Maybe it should have referenced 3255? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
Mark Smith wrote: On 8 Mar 2008, at 19:32, Richard Gaskin wrote: Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1 only? If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523 The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't realised there were special, classified bugs! Weird. When I click the link above it goes straight to my report. Maybe once an issue's been closed only the original reporter has access? I dunno, but here's the body of that report: Going from locked stack to unlocked in same window is weird When going from a password-protected stack to one that isn't password-protected in the same window, an error is generated when you attempt to edit the second stack's script. Using the attached example files, try this recipe: 1. Open start_here.mc This stack is password-protected (password: test), but don't unlock it yet. 2. Click the button in that stack. That will cause the second stack to be opened in the same window 3. Try to edit the script of the second stack Result: you will get an error that the stack is password-protected, but you won't be able to edit it because the editor's check for passwords (password is not empty AND password passKey) passes, yet the stack is flagged by the engine as locked. It would appear as though the password protection is mistakenly bound to the window, rather than the stack object. --- Comment #4 From Mark Waddingham 2007-11-20 01:13:38 Fixed in 2.9.0-dp-2 (Beta 9). All this assumes, of course, that the password property of the stack in question is indeed empty. Have you verified that that's the case? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Help! Spurious password protection...
It was my own fault - I had a custom property called 'password' (not for locking the stack) - completely forgetting that it's a reserved word...doh! Fortunately, the stack was at an early stage, so not much lost. 5523 is still off limits for me... Thanks, Mark On 8 Mar 2008, at 23:15, Richard Gaskin wrote: Mark Smith wrote: On 8 Mar 2008, at 19:32, Richard Gaskin wrote: Does this warning about the stack being locked occur in v2.8.1 only? If so, may be related to this item fixed for v2.9: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=5523 The qa center tells me I'm not authorised to view that bug - I hadn't realised there were special, classified bugs! Weird. When I click the link above it goes straight to my report. Maybe once an issue's been closed only the original reporter has access? I dunno, but here's the body of that report: Going from locked stack to unlocked in same window is weird When going from a password-protected stack to one that isn't password-protected in the same window, an error is generated when you attempt to edit the second stack's script. Using the attached example files, try this recipe: 1. Open start_here.mc This stack is password-protected (password: test), but don't unlock it yet. 2. Click the button in that stack. That will cause the second stack to be opened in the same window 3. Try to edit the script of the second stack Result: you will get an error that the stack is password-protected, but you won't be able to edit it because the editor's check for passwords (password is not empty AND password passKey) passes, yet the stack is flagged by the engine as locked. It would appear as though the password protection is mistakenly bound to the window, rather than the stack object. --- Comment #4 From Mark Waddingham 2007-11-20 01:13:38 Fixed in 2.9.0-dp-2 (Beta 9). All this assumes, of course, that the password property of the stack in question is indeed empty. Have you verified that that's the case? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Use RR Connect and Open MS Access DataBase with Password Protection.
Hello, Are there any example stacks teaching how to use RR to connect and open a MS Access Database? The MS Access Database is password protected. Thanks and best regards Alex __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Use RR Connect and Open MS Access DataBase with Password Protection.
Are there any example stacks teaching how to use RR to connect and open a MS Access Database? The MS Access Database is password protected. It should work like any other database in Rev, except that you'd have to use ODBC. As far as passwords go if you know the password then you can use it in the connection settings. But if you don't know it then you won't be able to connect. There are tools around the web for reverse engineering various database formats including Access, but I've never tested them and they only work on Windows. Scott Kane ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Password Protection and Copying
Howdy List: I have a copy-protected main stack from which I need to copy controls to a substack. Apparently, copying objects is disabled unless the passkey is provided before copying. This works OK, but then the password-protected stack is left unprotected. Is there any workaround for this -- any way to restore the main stack's password while it is in memory? (Rev 2.5.1) Thanks Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Password Protection and Copying
On May 18, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: I have a copy-protected main stack from which I need to copy controls to a substack. Apparently, copying objects is disabled unless the passkey is provided before copying. This works OK, but then the password-protected stack is left unprotected. Is there any workaround for this -- any way to restore the main stack's password while it is in memory? (Rev 2.5.1) I have a vague memory of setting passkey to empty. Dar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Password Protection and Copying
Howdy List: I have a copy-protected main stack from which I need to copy controls to a substack. Apparently, copying objects is disabled unless the passkey is provided before copying. This works OK, but then the password-protected stack is left unprotected. Is there any workaround for this -- any way to restore the main stack's password while it is in memory? (Rev 2.5.1) Thanks Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design See bug 546 (yes, that old and with 25 votes). Robert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Password Protection and Copying
Hi Scott, I just tried this: on mouseUp set the passkey of this stack to wahasel copy me to stack mySubStack set the password of this stack to wahasel save this stack revert end mouseUp seems to work, but causes flicker. Cheers, Malte ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
MCRipper password protection
I did a test with MCRipper. I built a stand alone stack which was password protected and used the encryption option. MCRipper didn't even show the stack so I could open it. Revolution also didn't see the stack. How then do you believe that this is hackable? Or have I missed something somewhere? Actually, I set the password and did not restart Revolution, so the stack was not really password protected...sorry for the mis-information on this issue. It does look like hidden fields in a password protected stack ARE protected, as well as variables (please someone verify). JR ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: User Level and Password Protection
Rick, Sure... sorry for being a little opaque. I believe someone on the list earlier was using a stack to store images that he didn't want others who had Revolution to be able to see (since they are copyright protected images). Setting the password does not prevent someone from *opening* your stack; it only prevents people from seeing your scripts. I was saying that there were other methods necessary to prevent people from looking at card data that could be implemented. But this doesn't seem to be needed in your case. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ - Original Message - From: Richard Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 11:49 PM Subject: Re: User Level and Password Protection on 4/16/2002 11:47 AM, Ken Ray at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, You *can* set a password for your stacks to prevent people from looking at your scripts. (Look under the password property in the Transcript Dictionary.) And you can set the cantModify of the stack to prevent people from adding or changing data in your stacks. What you need to do manually (if you need this at all) is to put something in to prevent certain people from *looking* at the data in your stacks - this would need a login screen or equivalent. Ken Ray Ken, Thanks for directing me in the correct direction. I'm not sure what you mean by something to prevent certain people from *looking* at the data in my stack. The only data they should be seeing is the data I want to show to them. Other data is all in hidden fields. Could you be more verbose? Thanks, Rick ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
User Level and Password Protection
Hi there, I used to protect my Hypercard stacks by using a password to change the user level. That way I was able to control who saw my stack and who didn't. Why was this standard abandoned by Revolution? Now it is looking like anyone who owns a copy of Revolution can see my code. It is no wonder to me that everyone is upset about this. Any work arounds? Thanks in advance, Rick Harrison ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: User Level and Password Protection
Rick, You *can* set a password for your stacks to prevent people from looking at your scripts. (Look under the password property in the Transcript Dictionary.) And you can set the cantModify of the stack to prevent people from adding or changing data in your stacks. What you need to do manually (if you need this at all) is to put something in to prevent certain people from *looking* at the data in your stacks - this would need a login screen or equivalent. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ - Original Message - From: Rick Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 10:18 AM Subject: User Level and Password Protection Hi there, I used to protect my Hypercard stacks by using a password to change the user level. That way I was able to control who saw my stack and who didn't. Why was this standard abandoned by Revolution? Now it is looking like anyone who owns a copy of Revolution can see my code. It is no wonder to me that everyone is upset about this. Any work arounds? Thanks in advance, Rick Harrison ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
