Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Scott Rossi wrote: Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: With the exception of user-manipulatable points for lines and polygons, it's all there in the engine now Is the Reshape Polygon button in Rev not what you have in mind here? .. If Rev's implementation is not accessible, you're welcome to mine; if this isn't what you're looking for, please clarify. It's accessible to all license holders of course, but even a good scripted solution will be suboptimal. The current implemenation gives an appearance and behavior inconsistent with other drawing apps and even other Rev objects, and no implementation can match the simplicity, robustness, and consistency of an engine based-solution, as all other object handles are accomplished now. The scripted solution was a fair workaround to get through the day before the engine acquisition, but now that they have control over the engine as well it's best to keep engine things complete and consistent. The details are already written in Bugzilla report #624. The Rev Bugzilla database is the living knowledge base of outstanding issues and feature requests, and its use cannot be recommended strongly enough. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
As an offshoot discussion of this... Does anyone remember MacProject? I still use it. It's a wonderful tool for me. I'd like to integrate something similar into my project. Has anyone got any ideas about the construction of this in Rev? Seems to me that the graphic interface has a challenge because a line has no properties - like an id, so attaching it to the centre of a box (task, which could be a field or a button) would be a problem. If that one was solved, then using a large array plus a database would take care of the logical part...right? Jim on 3/1/04 6:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Graham Samuel wrote: I vaguely remember someone (Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks Depends on what you want to do. Some types of drawing apps will work great, but if you need scrolling documents and manipulatable lines and polygons it's tricky. See Bugzilla for details: #622, 623, and 624. I'm told these are queued for possible implementation, but no projected date has been given. In the meantime, it's hard to make the equivalent of SuperCard's SampleDraw, and in some aspects not possible yet (or at least not with a smoothness I feel comfortable delivering). For myself, rather than implement hard-earned/short-lived workarounds I'm doing my stuff for the apps that need drawing tools in ways that work around the current limitations, confident that a solid solution for the whole kaboodle will be coming at some point -- OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together. http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2 Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
There was such an example in the MC examples stack... But you might have to update that MacPlus to make it work ;)) Just in a good metamood... MacCheers Xa On 03/03/2004 15:54:35 use-revolution-bounces wrote: As an offshoot discussion of this... Does anyone remember MacProject? I still use it. It's a wonderful tool for me. I'd like to integrate something similar into my project. Has anyone got any ideas about the construction of this in Rev? Seems to me that the graphic interface has a challenge because a line has no properties - like an id, so attaching it to the centre of a box (task, which could be a field or a button) would be a problem. If that one was solved, then using a large array plus a database would take care of the logical part...right? Jim on 3/1/04 6:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Graham Samuel wrote: I vaguely remember someone (Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks Depends on what you want to do. Some types of drawing apps will work great, but if you need scrolling documents and manipulatable lines and polygons it's tricky. See Bugzilla for details: #622, 623, and 624. I'm told these are queued for possible implementation, but no projected date has been given. In the meantime, it's hard to make the equivalent of SuperCard's SampleDraw, and in some aspects not possible yet (or at least not with a smoothness I feel comfortable delivering). For myself, rather than implement hard-earned/short-lived workarounds I'm doing my stuff for the apps that need drawing tools in ways that work around the current limitations, confident that a solid solution for the whole kaboodle will be coming at some point Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Install the MC engine and look at the examples from the help menu in the mctoolbar (MCTools), hit the right arrow 9 times or is it 8?! Move the square buttons... Ready made for you... Also there is a HyperCard book that showed this example called HyperProgramming from Addison Wesley written by Coulouris and Thimbledy. It did that with bitmap drawings. Where's that early 90's diskette now? 8( What we need in RR (like HC and MC) are MacDraw objects... But since PS is supported, why not FreeHand quality graphic editing tools (i'd love to have even FH 1.0 tools!) with SuperDraw (corel something?)? Alejandro? Todavia no tienes ese FreeHand plug-in listo? -- Discretely from http://MonsieurX.com I just started peeking at SolidWord 2004 and that's another RR for CAD CAM graphics! Like FH 1.0 again... For Audio Rev try www.FLStudio.com For sweet bubbles and amber body rev try www.leffe.be oh, shameless biased plug for Belgium, i know -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jim Carwardine Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 17:31 To: Revolution Listserve Subject: Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps? Where do I find that MC example? I went to the MC web site and found a lot of cool stuff but couldn't see a similar example... Jim on 3/3/04 11:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was such an example in the MC examples stack... But you might have to update that MacPlus to make it work ;)) Just in a good metamood... MacCheers Xa On 03/03/2004 15:54:35 use-revolution-bounces wrote: As an offshoot discussion of this... Does anyone remember MacProject? I still use it. It's a wonderful tool for me. I'd like to integrate something similar into my project. Has anyone got any ideas about the construction of this in Rev? Seems to me that the graphic interface has a challenge because a line has no properties - like an id, so attaching it to the centre of a box (task, which could be a field or a button) would be a problem. If that one was solved, then using a large array plus a database would take care of the logical part...right? Jim on 3/1/04 6:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Graham Samuel wrote: I vaguely remember someone (Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks Depends on what you want to do. Some types of drawing apps will work great, but if you need scrolling documents and manipulatable lines and polygons it's tricky. See Bugzilla for details: #622, 623, and 624. I'm told these are queued for possible implementation, but no projected date has been given. In the meantime, it's hard to make the equivalent of SuperCard's SampleDraw, and in some aspects not possible yet (or at least not with a smoothness I feel comfortable delivering). For myself, rather than implement hard-earned/short-lived workarounds I'm doing my stuff for the apps that need drawing tools in ways that work around the current limitations, confident that a solid solution for the whole kaboodle will be coming at some point Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together. http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2 Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: With the exception of user-manipulatable points for lines and polygons, it's all there in the engine now Is the Reshape Polygon button in Rev not what you have in mind here? I went and wrote a small routine to handle relocating the points of polygon only to find that Revolution now has this feature available in the tools palette. If Rev's implementation is not accessible, you're welcome to mine; if this isn't what you're looking for, please clarify. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
A line does have an ID property. You can use altPropEditor to find it. altPropEditor is part of the altPluginToolbar suite and it's free. at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm Jim Carwardine wrote: As an offshoot discussion of this... Does anyone remember MacProject? I still use it. It's a wonderful tool for me. I'd like to integrate something similar into my project. Has anyone got any ideas about the construction of this in Rev? Seems to me that the graphic interface has a challenge because a line has no properties - like an id, so attaching it to the centre of a box (task, which could be a field or a button) would be a problem. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
That's cool... Now I have to learn about dragging so I can have two boxes connected by a line and let the bottomRight of the line follow the loc of the second box while the topLeft of the line stays with the loc of the first box... How does one move only one end of a line in transcript? Jim on 3/3/04 4:32 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: A line does have an ID property. You can use altPropEditor to find it. altPropEditor is part of the altPluginToolbar suite and it's free. at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm Jim Carwardine wrote: As an offshoot discussion of this... Does anyone remember MacProject? I still use it. It's a wonderful tool for me. I'd like to integrate something similar into my project. Has anyone got any ideas about the construction of this in Rev? Seems to me that the graphic interface has a challenge because a line has no properties - like an id, so attaching it to the centre of a box (task, which could be a field or a button) would be a problem. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together. http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2 Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Scott Rossi wrote: Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: With the exception of user-manipulatable points for lines and polygons, it's all there in the engine now Is the Reshape Polygon button in Rev not what you have in mind here? I went and wrote a small routine to handle relocating the points of polygon only to find that Revolution now has this feature available in the tools palette. If Rev's implementation is not accessible, you're welcome to mine; if this isn't what you're looking for, please clarify. Scripted solutions are not necessarily horrible, but they're not quite MacDraw-like. See Bugzilla #624 referenced in this thread earlier for details. See also a search for polygon in Bugzilla, to see the three bugs related to the scripted interim workaround. To the best of my knowledge no bugs have ever been filed for engine-based handles. For something that fundamental an engine-based solution is the way to go, both for consistency of the user experience and general robustness. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Jim Carwardine wrote: How does one move only one end of a line in transcript? See the points property. Also note that, as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can put blank lines in the points list to create discontiguous polygons. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Got it... Thanks... Jim on 3/3/04 5:07 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Jim Carwardine wrote: How does one move only one end of a line in transcript? See the points property. Also note that, as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can put blank lines in the points list to create discontiguous polygons. -- OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together. http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2 Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
On Wednesday, March 3, 2004, at 09:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps? To: Revolution Listserve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII That's cool... Now I have to learn about dragging so I can have two boxes connected by a line and let the bottomRight of the line follow the loc of the second box while the topLeft of the line stays with the loc of the first box... How does one move only one end of a line in transcript? Jim Does RR have a way to hilite the selection rect as you drag the mouse? (The dashed rect that's drawn in xor as you select an area with the pointer tool). -- Frank ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
on Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:20:54 +0100 Xavier Bury wrote: What we need in RR (like HC and MC) are MacDraw objects... But since PostScript is supported, why not FreeHand quality graphic editing tools (i'd love to have even FH 1.0 tools!) with SuperDraw (corel something?)? Alejandro? Todavia no tienes ese FreeHand plug-in listo? No Xavier, the handler to export a stack as adobe ilustrator format is not ready. In fact, is a real hurdle to convert the text fields in the text encodings used by the adobe format. You can check this drawing stack in my site. This is the message that i send to this list: Download the stack Graphic Tools v01 beta.zip http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Graphic_Tools_v01beta.zip This stack shows how to edit a polygon graphic with diverse tools. Notice, this is a Beta, so expect some rough edges... ;) The only tool that I want that you check is ConvertPoint. It looks like this: /\ I think this is the shape of the convert point tool of Adobe Ilustrator. This tool lets you change the shape of a line segment between 2 selected points of a polygon graphic. In fact, what you are doing is replacing the points with the points of the line that you just created. To reshape a polygon graphic: 1- Select the Convert Shape tool ( /\ ) 2- Click on the first point of the Polygon graphic. It's better if you have selected before the polygon graphic and had checked the button Show Markers. In that way, the marker points will be already visible... Notice, if you checked the button Audible Feedback (Beep) then you will hear a beep ONLY if you clicked on a marker point of the polygon graphic. 3- Click the second point of the polygon and 2 GREEN dots, 2 RED dots (under the green dots) and a line appears over the two points that you CLICKED before. 4- Move the green dots to reshape the bezier line and when you are done... DOUBLECLICK one of the green dots. Do not click the red dots or the line, please. IMPORTANT: You can press the option key, while doubleclicking to obtain another variation of this adding or deleting of points. ;)) 5- The Red Dots, Green dots and the line dissapear, (go back to the left corner) and the segment takes the shape of the line. If any unexpected change occurs then click the button UNDO. Notice, NO ERROR HANDLING. Any deviation on this steps will produce errors without any doubts... :(( Comments and fixes are welcome, as always. Later I'll comment over the other tools, but you'll read the code and test your guessings powers too!!! ;)) al = Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ Search the mail list: http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
on Mon, 01 Mar 2004 Chipp Walters wrote: I've given it a bit of thought, and AFAIK, I think you could build a nice little paint/draw product inside RR. I don't think it would be as simple as one might think, but don't really see why it's impossible. If Graham goes to the website at the end of this mail, he could find some useful pieces of code that will give him a headstart on this task. You can of course save in both Jpg and Png formats. I think you might want to consider doing everything in browser mode to get the simplest and easiest to use interface. Remember, that Richard had created a svg export handler, i'm working in a handler to export in adobe ilustrator 1.1 format and diverse developers had expressed their interest in create a pdf export handler. Good luck and hard work! al = Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ Search the mail list: http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi __ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Graham Samuel wrote: I vaguely remember someone (Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks Depends on what you want to do. Some types of drawing apps will work great, but if you need scrolling documents and manipulatable lines and polygons it's tricky. See Bugzilla for details: #622, 623, and 624. I'm told these are queued for possible implementation, but no projected date has been given. In the meantime, it's hard to make the equivalent of SuperCard's SampleDraw, and in some aspects not possible yet (or at least not with a smoothness I feel comfortable delivering). For myself, rather than implement hard-earned/short-lived workarounds I'm doing my stuff for the apps that need drawing tools in ways that work around the current limitations, confident that a solid solution for the whole kaboodle will be coming at some point -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Hi Graham, I've given it a bit of thought, and AFAIK, I think you could build a nice little paint/draw product inside RR. I don't think it would be as simple as one might think, but don't really see why it's impossible. You can of course save in both Jpg and Png formats. I think you might want to consider doing everything in browser mode to get the simplest and easiest to use interface. I've a product called ImageGadget (free for PCs) you might take a look at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/hemingway/HemTools/ImageGadget.htm best, Chipp Graham Samuel wrote: Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I vaguely remember someone (Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks: I have in mind to add to an application a sort of drawing-and-painting module for creating icon-like objects via a tool palette. Are there serious limitations to RR which would prevent this? I just need a steer from the list to find out if I'd be wasting my time... TIA Graham --- Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK France ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Graham Samuel wrote: Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I vaguely remember someone (Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks: I have in mind to add to an application a sort of drawing-and-painting module for creating icon-like objects via a tool palette. Are there serious limitations to RR which would prevent this? I just need a steer from the list to find out if I'd be wasting my time... TIA Graham I have an app that has some basic vector graphics drawing capabilities. I found that drawing a straight line was difficult. I have some ideas how it would be implemented, but have not test them out. The normal line graphic once drawn at an angle does not move to a perfect straight line after that. -- Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
