Re: There's no place like Home
On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, and obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result would be the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your Home Stack template. How much time would that save you? GREAT suggestion! If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the same as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for me. Include some standard library' scripts and away we go! t -- Tereza Snyder Califex Software, Inc. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Tereza Snyder wrote: On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, and obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result would be the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your Home Stack template. How much time would that save you? GREAT suggestion! If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the same as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for me. Include some standard library' scripts and away we go! But not so great for those of us who write apps for lots of different clients, each of which requires a different setup. If this idea goes anywhere, it should be an optional setting. My own preference is for a button on the Home stack that would open a custom template stack instead, and leave the Home stack alone. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
J. Landman Gay wrote: On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, and obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result would be the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your Home Stack template. How much time would that save you? GREAT suggestion! If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the same as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for me. Include some standard library' scripts and away we go! But not so great for those of us who write apps for lots of different clients, each of which requires a different setup. If this idea goes anywhere, it should be an optional setting. My own preference is for a button on the Home stack that would open a custom template stack instead, and leave the Home stack alone. I see the value in this, but it sounds like a good opportunity for a template/wizard more than a Home stack. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: J. Landman Gay wrote: On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, and obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result would be the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your Home Stack template. How much time would that save you? GREAT suggestion! If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the same as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for me. Include some standard library' scripts and away we go! But not so great for those of us who write apps for lots of different clients, each of which requires a different setup. If this idea goes anywhere, it should be an optional setting. My own preference is for a button on the Home stack that would open a custom template stack instead, and leave the Home stack alone. I see the value in this, but it sounds like a good opportunity for a template/wizard more than a Home stack. I see your point, and I concede it virtues. I'll always be a sucker for minimalist and pure solutions. Not so practical, however. t -- Tereza Snyder Califex Software, Inc. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
On 6/7/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you had a Home stack in Rev like there was in HyperCard, what would you use it for? Keep in mind that Rev is a different beast than HC, so let your imagination run wild: What would you expect to see in a Rev Home stack? I use a couple of my own stacks: a stack launcher and a function key handler, to replace some of the Home stack's features. In HC, I used to have a lot of my own handlers in the Home stack's stack script, but in Rev, I prefer to have that sort of thing on a project-by-project basis and not as a permanent front or backScript. If you wanted to replace something from HC, I reckon a much better investment would be a provide a modern equivalent of the HC stacks that included a bunch of sample fields and buttons. Cheers, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
You could do a lot worse than look at the HyperCard Home stack as a starting point for drawing in 'hobbyist' users (like me). If your Home Stack is simply a launcher perhaps you could package different kinds of Home stacks for different kinds of users - something along the lines of the HC User level approach, or something that would work for different kinds of switchers e.g. a Home stack fro switchers from SuperCard - or whatever. James -- James J Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 On 7 Jun, 2007, at 05:39, Richard Gaskin wrote: Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote: On Jun 6, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Any stack which launches everytime Rev does, goes into the memory footprint and possibly adds frontscripts, backscripts providing more opportunity to mess with the fragile IDE. I agree completely with Chipp. Good readily and obviously available template stacks much as Judy outlined them would be far more useful and much less dangerous. I should clarify that I do too. The Home stack is currently a necessity in any IDE, so the impact in memory would not change. And in keeping with MetaCard's central mandate, Do No Harm, I can't imagine why any Home stack would need any frontScripts or backScripts. HC never supported either feature, and we needn't much up any new Home stack with them. It should be simple and self-contained, far simpler than RevOnline and, unlike RevOnline, open source for user modification. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Hi Richard and all, Le 7 juin 07 à 02:23, Richard Gaskin a écrit : If you had a Home stack in Rev like there was in HyperCard, what would you use it for? Keep in mind that Rev is a different beast than HC, so let your imagination run wild: What would you expect to see in a Rev Home stack? In older times, I have provided to my readers in MacWorld French edition a 'replacement' home stack for HC: In color and working mostly with drag and drop, it added a lot of possibilities compared to the regular 'Home Stack'. But all this is a question of market: As for me, I don't need any home stack but I understand well that, in some fields (beginners, education, etc.), such a beast would be welcome. Actually it's easy to make one as a plugin loaded at startup anyone could put out or not :-) It could display different things according to a kind of user level from a simple stack launcher to a lib and plugin manager, environment info and much more. The stacks launcher would includes presentation stacks, videos and templates for beginners as well as more sophisticated stuff about plugins, building externals, etc. according to the user level chosen. In addition, and it did not existed in HC of course, internet links should be included. As for RevOnline, it would be accessible in all cases directly or from the home stack but contents showed should reflect the user level. Actually it could receive the 'Getting Started' and the user guide parts of the current help, the help stack being limited to the dictionary/glossary, i.e. all things directly related to the vocabulary. Just my two cents after two minutes thinking... PS1. Richard: actually the HC engine inserts the Home script as a back script :-) PS2. In the 'replacement' home stack for HC I mentioned above, a section was really appreciated by all users: Which vocabulary should I use for... Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
The first thing I do upon launching Rev/MC is click the Tool btn on the Home stack to open the Tools menu, then close the Home stack. One thing I would not want is more front and back scripts added. I recently spent many hours trying to find out why my own frontscript mouseup handler wasn't occuring. In the end, I had to go thru every btn (and there were a lot) that called my frontscript, and do this: on mouseUp myMouseUp end mouseUp I renamed my frontscript mouseUp handler to myMouseUp, and it fixed the problem. But the problem shouldn't have existed in the first place. What was even more frustrating, was that my use of mouseUp in my own frontscript has worked fine for years, and I don't know what broke it, except to wonder if the newer versions of Rev/MC did it. We don't need more frontscripts interfering with our own! Vote = No. That said, ideally Home should be used to make a first time user's experience smoother. I have been using Rev/MC for years, but when I want to know how to do something new, finding the answer is never easy. It is not uncommon to resort to a list archive search and wade thru hundreds of postings hoping for a clue. If I've experienced difficulty finding an answer, being a long time user, I can't even imagine what it's like for a new person downloading the trial and making a decision to purchase. There should be docs of the same caliber as the old Hyertalk 2.2 book. That, and the Complete Hypercard Handbook, were the two best sources of documentation I've seen as far as a well-written how to. Every function and command should have detailed code examples for every scenario of use of that function/command, and the info should be easy to find. NEVER assume your user knows xyz when writing an example or answering a question. Shari -- Windows and Macintosh shareware games BIackjack Gold http://www.gypsyware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Eric Chatonet wrote: It could display different things according to a kind of user level from a simple stack launcher to a lib and plugin manager, environment info and much more. The stacks launcher would includes presentation stacks, videos and templates for beginners as well as more sophisticated stuff about plugins, building externals, etc. according to the user level chosen. In addition, and it did not existed in HC of course, internet links should be included. As for RevOnline, it would be accessible in all cases directly or from the home stack but contents showed should reflect the user level. Actually it could receive the 'Getting Started' and the user guide parts of the current help, the help stack being limited to the dictionary/glossary, i.e. all things directly related to the vocabulary. Good suggestions, thanks. Since the MC IDE will be incorporating RIP properties going forward, it does make sense to put a component manager/updater into the stack which makes smart use of those. Good idea. PS1. Richard: actually the HC engine inserts the Home script as a back script :-) While the Home stack is in the message path in both HyperCard and Rev, it isn't among the backScripts. BackScripts were introduced in SuperCard and later added to MetaCard/Revolution, but that specific mechanism was never supported in HyperCard. HyperCard did support libraries (start using...), but the Home stack isn't list among those either. It seems the Home stack is a special case, inserted into the message path automatically without either of those mechanisms. Given that the development engine requires it there's nothing we can do about that; whether we show it or not that required stack will still be in the message path during development in any IDE. That said, we can at least be as conscientious about it as possible and not add any other complexities to it, keeping its own handlers to a minimum and not adding any other frontScripts, backScripts, or libraries to it. With all the talk of open source here lately, anyone here want to take up the task of crafting an updated Home stack for the open source MetaCard IDE? -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: There's no place like Home
There are a lot of people here who cut their teeth on HC. It would be facinating to see everyone's favorite design for a modern home stack. Anyone up for a design contest? Over the weekend I found a Mac SE/30 peaking sadly out of the back of a closet. It was an interesting experience firing it up given how (after the start up sequence) just how responsive those early applications were. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Hi Richard, I think that a kind of brainstorming from different users and programmers (all have not the same needs) could be interesting to list features that would be nice to have according to three levels: 1. Beginners 2. Hobbyists 3. Pros * * Actually, pros don't need a home stack or are able to write their own tools (as you do and many among us) but this would help hobbyists to go to the next step. PS. As for the HC Home stack, I just wanted to point out it was a kind of automatic back script you can't remove :-) Le 7 juin 07 à 16:36, Richard Gaskin a écrit : Eric Chatonet wrote: It could display different things according to a kind of user level from a simple stack launcher to a lib and plugin manager, environment info and much more. The stacks launcher would includes presentation stacks, videos and templates for beginners as well as more sophisticated stuff about plugins, building externals, etc. according to the user level chosen. In addition, and it did not existed in HC of course, internet links should be included. As for RevOnline, it would be accessible in all cases directly or from the home stack but contents showed should reflect the user level. Actually it could receive the 'Getting Started' and the user guide parts of the current help, the help stack being limited to the dictionary/glossary, i.e. all things directly related to the vocabulary. Good suggestions, thanks. Since the MC IDE will be incorporating RIP properties going forward, it does make sense to put a component manager/updater into the stack which makes smart use of those. Good idea. PS1. Richard: actually the HC engine inserts the Home script as a back script :-) While the Home stack is in the message path in both HyperCard and Rev, it isn't among the backScripts. BackScripts were introduced in SuperCard and later added to MetaCard/Revolution, but that specific mechanism was never supported in HyperCard. HyperCard did support libraries (start using...), but the Home stack isn't list among those either. It seems the Home stack is a special case, inserted into the message path automatically without either of those mechanisms. Given that the development engine requires it there's nothing we can do about that; whether we show it or not that required stack will still be in the message path during development in any IDE. That said, we can at least be as conscientious about it as possible and not add any other complexities to it, keeping its own handlers to a minimum and not adding any other frontScripts, backScripts, or libraries to it. With all the talk of open source here lately, anyone here want to take up the task of crafting an updated Home stack for the open source MetaCard IDE? -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Eric Chatonet wrote: I think that a kind of brainstorming from different users and programmers (all have not the same needs) could be interesting to list features that would be nice to have according to three levels: 1. Beginners 2. Hobbyists 3. Pros * * Actually, pros don't need a home stack or are able to write their own tools (as you do and many among us) but this would help hobbyists to go to the next step. As a big fan of personnas in workflow analyis, I'm immediately attracted to your breakdown. I think there's a lot of merit to that, which is one more reason why any Home stack should have an option to not show it on launch. But thinking back to your earlier suggestions, there are some tools, like component management and updating, which might be helpful to pros in addition to links to any sample stacks geared for newcomers. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned Rebol yet. They had a nifty Internet-connected sort of Home-like window that was the starting point for their system. I think there may be some interesting aspects of that which might benefit MC. PS. As for the HC Home stack, I just wanted to point out it was a kind of automatic back script you can't remove :-) Eric, with the great work you do no sane person could doubt your knowledge. I merely wanted to clarify that any presence of the Home stack in MC's message path is limited to what the engine requires, and that I see no need to complicate that by adding more. On the contrary, one of the benefits that keeps MC fans using that IDE after all these years is that it uses a simpler messaging model with a much smaller footprint, minimizing as much as possible the differences between development and runtime. Any further enhancement to the MC IDE will continue to honor that mandate. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Shari wrote: The first thing I do upon launching Rev/MC is click the Tool btn on the Home stack to open the Tools menu, then close the Home stack. Me too. One more reason to have any Home stack operate like RevOnline, with an option to let the user determine if it opens on launch or not. One thing I would not want is more front and back scripts added. I recently spent many hours trying to find out why my own frontscript mouseup handler wasn't occuring. In the end, I had to go thru every btn (and there were a lot) that called my frontscript, and do this: on mouseUp myMouseUp end mouseUp I renamed my frontscript mouseUp handler to myMouseUp, and it fixed the problem. But the problem shouldn't have existed in the first place. What was even more frustrating, was that my use of mouseUp in my own frontscript has worked fine for years, and I don't know what broke it, except to wonder if the newer versions of Rev/MC did it. We don't need more frontscripts interfering with our own! Vote = No. The MetaCard IDE uses only a single frontScript and backScript to drive itself, and to the best of my knowledge its mouse handlers haven't been modified since Scott Raney wrote them back in the day. Messages are arguably the most important category of tokens in the language, as they're our five senses that let our scripts know what's happening in the world. In the absence of pointer-tool-specific messages (requested at http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=2606), any IDE will need to trap mouseDown, mouseUp, etc. to update property inspectors and such, but this sensitivity to the critical role of messages keeps MC's handling of them as light as possible. So given all that, and the care RunRev puts into maintaining the integrity of messaging in the engine, I'm surprised you encountered a change in behavior between engine versions. If this remains an issue we should continue poking around with this on the MC list. There should be docs of the same caliber as the old Hyertalk 2.2 book. That, and the Complete Hypercard Handbook, were the two best sources of documentation I've seen as far as a well-written how to. Every function and command should have detailed code examples for every scenario of use of that function/command, and the info should be easy to find. Rev's documentation isn't too far off that mark, since the original docs were written by the same person who wrote most of HyperTalk 2.2: The Book, Jeanne DeVoto. But Rev 1.0 was a long time ago, and a lot it's been revised and a good many new tokens have been added since. And some of the most helpful stuff she wrote, like the Cookbook stack, have long since been removed from Rev, which is too bad because there was some darn useful stuff in there. FWIW, I've recommended Jeanne to a client to write the documentation for two products I develop, and we -- and our customers -- have been very pleased with the results. If anyone here needs a tech writer I would recommend her. NEVER assume your user knows xyz when writing an example or answering a question. I agree that all the IDEs could use some enhancement to the docs, perhaps MetaCard's even more so given its age and historic caudience focus. At a minimum I'd like to see what could be done to be able to call up Eric Chatonet's excellent Search tool within MC. It's probably the most comprehensive search around, able to pull in stuff from an amazing variety of sources. We don't currently have an owner for the documentation components in the MC IDE, and if one of the open source advocates here would like to take that one we'd love to have them on the team. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: There's no place like Home
What's impressive is that it did it with very little ram and drive space. Tight code, little bloat. It had to be. I still cringe at the size of my 25mb application. But I NEED all that stuff in there Over the weekend I found a Mac SE/30 peaking sadly out of the back of a closet. It was an interesting experience firing it up given how (after the start up sequence) just how responsive those early applications were. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
From: Lynn Fredricks [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are a lot of people here who cut their teeth on HC. It would be facinating to see everyone's favorite design for a modern home stack. Anyone up for a design contest? This facinates me as it appeals to the marketer in me. g I'd love for their to be a contest. It'd be interesting and IMHO quite productive. IMHO again, better than worrying about the merits or lack thereof of open souceing Rev. vbg Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Richard Gaskin wrote: While the Home stack is in the message path in both HyperCard and Rev, it isn't among the backScripts. BackScripts were introduced in SuperCard and later added to MetaCard/Revolution, but that specific mechanism was never supported in HyperCard. HyperCard did support libraries (start using...), but the Home stack isn't list among those either. It seems the Home stack is a special case, inserted into the message path automatically without either of those mechanisms. Given that the development engine requires it there's nothing we can do about that; whether we show it or not that required stack will still be in the message path during development in any IDE. Right. Trivia: When you start using a stack, its script is inserted ahead of the Home stack (for HC compatibility.) When you insert a backscript, the script is inserted behind the Home stack, closer to the engine. In the MC IDE (and also the Rev IDE I think, but I'm not positive) it doesn't matter since Home doesn't insert its own script in either way. But in a standalone, the main stack acts like the Home stack and it may make a difference which syntax you use. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Eric Chatonet wrote: could be interesting to list features that would be nice to have according to three levels: 1. Beginners 2. Hobbyists 3. Pros * Actually, pros don't need a home stack or are able to write their own tools (as you do and many among us) but this would help hobbyists to go to the next step. IMO I'd make it solve the one problem that EVERY Rev user faces at one stage or another whether they be a beginner in programming or a pro from another language. Plus, I believe the Pros in Rev would find it handy too. It was also not a problem in HC, which may be why it catches so many ex HC users. I'd make the Home Stack a 'Splash Screen' where you'd be encouraged (not forced) to place a graphic (company logo or just a photo of yourself) and maybe some contact details (optional). The first time you ever opened Rev you'd be guided through the process, but if you clicked the 'Not Now' button the Home Stack would have an 'Update Spash Screen' button in easy view. The Home Stack (in the IDE) would then have one other button, a Start New Project button, which when pressed would then clone the Home Stack, but clean it so as to make it just a 'Spash Screen' stack (ie no Start New Project button) and also make a 'Working' stack. The Splash Screen (and Home stack) would disappear, leaving the Working stack as the logical place for the beginner to start the next killer app. For the beginner, how many 'my stack works fine in the IDE but when I create a standalone I can't seem to save any data' questions would you avoid. For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, and obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result would be the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your Home Stack template. How much time would that save you? Just my thoughts. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
some quick demo of the features: 1) couple casual games such as the ones Malte builds :D 2) couple network related desktop apps, that are better than web browsers based apps. 3) quick PIM just so that people know it's easy. 4) some video testimonial by us! :D where the user could browse categories or something like that and see some little video clips on-demand of the community talking about itself. (that alone demos rich apps, network and multimedia features) On 6/6/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you had a Home stack in Rev like there was in HyperCard, what would you use it for? Keep in mind that Rev is a different beast than HC, so let your imagination run wild: What would you expect to see in a Rev Home stack? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Would be nice to have a list of Rev installed components, where, and what they are used for. Rev is so different, why not give new users a picture (and a tour) of the Rev neighborhood. Little descriptions about the included plugins, how do you get them to work, put them away, make your own, add someone else's, What makes a plugin not-a-plugin, or a stack a plugin? How would this interfere with the message heirarchy (front, back, and stacks in use)? Jim Ault Las Vegas On 6/6/07 5:23 PM, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you had a Home stack in Rev like there was in HyperCard, what would you use it for? Keep in mind that Rev is a different beast than HC, so let your imagination run wild: What would you expect to see in a Rev Home stack? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Funny you should ask, Richard ;-) I've been pondering this very thing for the ED-MEDIA attendees. I'd personally like to see an intro to the product, that used commented scripts that the user could 'take apart' too see how strategically-employed basics worked. I'd like to see an updated version of the 'button' and 'field' stacks. I'd like to see a basic little complete app. I'd like to see jumping-off points to the language model and the docs. I'd probably like to see little proof-of-concept stacks illustrating various interesting topics: *handling graphics *handling video *handling audio *file I/O *Hyperlinks *UI elements (including the Tabs issue that comes up repeatedly) *simple interactivity (ask and answer; global local variables; branching constructs) *internet/communications *text/chunk handling *links to RevCentral newsletters, new features, etc. *links to Rev-approved tutorial sites/developers *links to join the use- and other lists *links to video tutorials ... Just for you, Richard. Because you cared enough to ask :-) Judy On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Richard Gaskin wrote: If you had a Home stack in Rev like there was in HyperCard, what would you use it for? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Nothing. Absolutely Nothing. Any stack which launches everytime Rev does, goes into the memory footprint and possibly adds frontscripts, backscripts providing more opportunity to mess with the fragile IDE. Until the IDE runs in it's own thread, I'd rather see some good demo stacks than a Home stack. As I recall, the Home stack did a number of things for HC users. It introduced them to HC, provided a place for permissioning, showed some samples along with code, provided clip art and buttons, allowed users to use it as an Address book, etc.. To pollute the Rev IDE with all of this seems a bit overwhelming to me. There certainly must be a better way to create a strong first time user experience? -Chipp On 6/6/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IWhat would you expect to see in a Rev Home stack? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Chipp Walters wrote: Nothing. Absolutely Nothing. Any stack which launches everytime Rev does, goes into the memory footprint and possibly adds frontscripts, backscripts providing more opportunity to mess with the fragile IDE. ... There certainly must be a better way to create a strong first time user experience? Would that include RevOnline? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Depending upon the audience, RevOnline is too disorganized and unintuitive. Plus, you have to hunt for it. Judy On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Richard Gaskin wrote: Chipp Walters wrote: There certainly must be a better way to create a strong first time user experience? Would that include RevOnline? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
You can turn RevOnline off...In fact it's the first thing I do when I launch a new version of Rev. If you could turn the 'Home' stack off..would it still be a Home stack? On 6/6/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would that include RevOnline? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
I agree completely with Chipp. Good readily and obviously available template stacks much as Judy outlined them would be far more useful and much less dangerous. Joe Wilkins On Jun 6, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Nothing. Absolutely Nothing. Any stack which launches everytime Rev does, goes into the memory footprint and possibly adds frontscripts, backscripts providing more opportunity to mess with the fragile IDE. Until the IDE runs in it's own thread, I'd rather see some good demo stacks than a Home stack. As I recall, the Home stack did a number of things for HC users. It introduced them to HC, provided a place for permissioning, showed some samples along with code, provided clip art and buttons, allowed users to use it as an Address book, etc.. To pollute the Rev IDE with all of this seems a bit overwhelming to me. There certainly must be a better way to create a strong first time user experience? -Chipp On 6/6/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IWhat would you expect to see in a Rev Home stack? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Chipp Walters wrote: You can turn RevOnline off...In fact it's the first thing I do when I launch a new version of Rev. If you could turn the 'Home' stack off..would it still be a Home stack? One could close the HC's Home stack, at least if some other stack was open. As for any new Home stack, at the moment this is just a thought experiment so the definition of Home stack for the 21st century is in flux, to be determined by whatever people here express. :) Here's the backstory: Some substantial revisions are underway with the MetaCard IDE project, the original IDE stacks for this engine which have since become open source. While working on some other parts it occurs to me that since Rev 2.7 the Home stack is really just a launcher. It no longer handles the licensing stuff (that's handled much more securely and robustly in the engine itself now), and it's only role is that it's the stack that the development engine looks for on startup, and in turn it can open any other stack to start an IDE. Since it was just sitting there, I've been pondering whether it makes sense to just hide it or perhaps have some useful stuff in it. And of course it would be closeable, just like RevOnline. So Home is at this point a clean slate. It could be discarded, but I thought it would be fun to brainstorm with the folks here to see if maybe something valuable could be done with it. Just maybe there is a way to redefine the concept of a Home stack for the 21st century -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
On 6/6/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for any new Home stack, at the moment this is just a thought experiment so the definition of Home stack for the 21st century is in flux, to be determined by whatever people here express. :) Here's the backstory: SNIP OK, I understand it now. Frankly, I think my answer is the same with one exception: I would like for the Home stack to do absolutely nothing other than launch a list of other stacks and then get out of the way. That way, if one creates a tutorial stack, they can drop it into the Home stack folder and it will launch on startup. Or, one could put altToolbar (or whatever utility stacks they have) in a folder and they will launch automatically on startup. This way, you could ship MC IDE with all the functional 'home stacks' you wanted, and the user only has to remove them from the Home folder and they will no longer launch. IOW, there is nothing within the Home stack which, when missing, would hinder or prevent the MC IDE from running. Just my 2 cents. c ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: There's no place like Home
Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote: On Jun 6, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Any stack which launches everytime Rev does, goes into the memory footprint and possibly adds frontscripts, backscripts providing more opportunity to mess with the fragile IDE. I agree completely with Chipp. Good readily and obviously available template stacks much as Judy outlined them would be far more useful and much less dangerous. I should clarify that I do too. The Home stack is currently a necessity in any IDE, so the impact in memory would not change. And in keeping with MetaCard's central mandate, Do No Harm, I can't imagine why any Home stack would need any frontScripts or backScripts. HC never supported either feature, and we needn't much up any new Home stack with them. It should be simple and self-contained, far simpler than RevOnline and, unlike RevOnline, open source for user modification. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
