Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

Thanks very much. That isn't what I'm trying to do -- not any more.  
Originally I did want to do that, so as to line up metrical scansion  
marks -- rather like diacritics, you're right -- over text. But I  
didn't know about the formattedWidth property (which turns out to be  
nifty now that I know to look it up), & so couldn't see how to get  
the metric of the text itself. I resorted to doing all my scansions  
in Courier, where I could control the relation between lines. Of  
course it's uglier than a proportional font would be. If I were a  
Good Person I'd go back and use the method you suggest -- but it  
would involve, at a guess, several hundred example lines, and I don't  
have the heart.


My recent problem has been simply to line up blank, opaque fields  
covering the scansion marks, and reveal them at (the user's) will.  
I'm now solving that with Phil Davis's screenshot approach, which  
works fine for my purposes.


Thanks again -- learn something every day.

Charles


On Jul 27, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Devin Asay wrote:


Charles,

I'm jumping in late in the game, and basing my memory of what  
you're trying to do on my quick read through of your original  
message yesterday. If I understand it correctly, you are trying to  
accurately position some kind of diacritical markings above  
specific letters in a text field? Let me suggest an alternative  
that might avoid the cross-platform font metric issues. I did a  
project similar to this a couple of years ago, in which I needed to  
position Pinyin tone marks above vowels in romanized Chinese  
syllables. The tone marks were images. I used the formattedWidth  
property of the chunk of text up to and including the letter to be  
marked, then calculated the horizontal distance from the edge of  
the card to the letter in question and positioned the image there.  
For example:


| _
|<- left of card  |chunk in fld|
| |<- left of fld  |
| ||
| ||
| _|

If I wanted to position the mark over the "u" in "chunk" I would use
the left of fld "myfld" + the formattedWidth of char 1 to 3 of  
fld "myfld"
as the baseline x value, then by trial and error find the proper x  
and y adjustments to get my image to display at the desired spot.


This method should work regardless of font and size because the  
formattedWidth takes the current font settings of the chunk into  
account.


HTH

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Devin Asay]

Charles,

I'm jumping in late in the game, and basing my memory of what you're  
trying to do on my quick read through of your original message  
yesterday. If I understand it correctly, you are trying to accurately  
position some kind of diacritical markings above specific letters in  
a text field? Let me suggest an alternative that might avoid the  
cross-platform font metric issues. I did a project similar to this a  
couple of years ago, in which I needed to position Pinyin tone marks  
above vowels in romanized Chinese syllables. The tone marks were  
images. I used the formattedWidth property of the chunk of text up to  
and including the letter to be marked, then calculated the horizontal  
distance from the edge of the card to the letter in question and  
positioned the image there. For example:


| _
|<- left of card  |chunk in fld|
| |<- left of fld  |
| ||
| ||
| _|

If I wanted to position the mark over the "u" in "chunk" I would use
the left of fld "myfld" + the formattedWidth of char 1 to 3 of  
fld "myfld"
as the baseline x value, then by trial and error find the proper x  
and y adjustments to get my image to display at the desired spot.


This method should work regardless of font and size because the  
formattedWidth takes the current font settings of the chunk into  
account.


HTH

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

On Jul 27, 2005, at 1:50 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

If you do a search on the mailing list for "cross platform fonts"  
you'll get tons of hits. Here's Dar's info:


http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution@lists.runrev.com/ 
msg26708.html


Thanks very much. Since Dar's table shows that even Courier and  
Courier New (the two choices for a monospaced font that have to be  
available cover all relevant systems) have different metrics (!), it  
becomes clear that for my situation Phil Davis's screenshot approach  
is the best solution. I'm working on it now.


Excellent.

Charles

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[J. Landman Gay]

Charles Hartman wrote:

> I'm already doing a preOpenStack in the main stack to set the two  fonts
> (one proportional, one monospace) according to what's available  on the
> runtime system. If I knew the right sizes it sounds as though  I could
> make the text fit the fields, backwards as that sounds.

If you do a search on the mailing list for "cross platform fonts" you'll 
get tons of hits. Here's Dar's info:


http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution@lists.runrev.com/msg26708.html



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Ken Ray]

On 7/26/05 9:35 PM, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ken
> 
>> On 7/26/05 2:37 PM, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Charles,
>>> 
>>> Same wrong thing with file handling... but it does allow
>> you to have 
>>> the low-level edge...
>> 
>> What do you mean, Xavier? What is backwards with file handling?
> 
> with file type handling it's quite a pain...

I think that was fixed with the unified "answer file" command in 2.6...
(but I may be wrong).


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Mac -> Win problems

[MisterX]

Ken

> On 7/26/05 2:37 PM, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Charles,
> > 
> > Same wrong thing with file handling... but it does allow 
> you to have 
> > the low-level edge...
> 
> What do you mean, Xavier? What is backwards with file handling?

with file type handling it's quite a pain...

> > once you're made your standard ask and answer dialogs 
> conform, you'll 
> > be sailing smoother...
> 
> Actually, Rev is designed to handle the differences when all 
> you're providing is OK and Cancel (in *that* case, reversing 
> the buttons is correct for the HIGs on both platforms); it's 
> just that if you use any other buttons it doesn't work right 
> (i.e. it reverses them when it shouldn't).

now that's what i was missing... ;)

cheers
Xavier

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Alex Tweedly]

Charles Hartman wrote:



There's another bug or two (BZ 2138 and another one I can't see  
right now) that might be what you're seeing. These happen when you  
run a stack on WinXP by double-clicking on the stack icon. I  created 
BZ 2138 for this problem with the Dreamcard Player - and  since I 
wasn't sure if it was intended to allow this or not, I had  to mark 
that as an enhancement. I'm sure I've seen another BZ entry  for the 
same, or very similar, problem with the full product - but  can't 
immediately find it.


I now never run stacks by double clicking them because of this  
problem - I either run them in the IDE, or build standalones.


But it wasn't clear whether you are double-clicking to run it or  
not, so this may not be the answer you need.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



I'm running by double-clicking -- because all I've got is DreamCard,  
so I can't build standalones. And I suspect my users (they'll  
download the Win or Mac player, I hope from my site where they get  
the stack) will do it the same way. There's no evident other way to  
tell the Player to load the stack; I may have missed it -- but if so,  
users may well too. (I'll have to give them instructions anyway, of  
course.)


So -- it's a bug, already known. Is there also a known workaround?  
The app is hardly useable as it is.


You can run the player, then click on the small "folder" icon at the top 
right, and select a stack to run.


I know, I know - the most obscure, non-standard bit of UI you've seen in 
the last couple of years. Why it couldn't have had a good, old-fashioned 
menu with File/Open and Edit/Preferences instead of these two icons 
which I'm sure 50% of users don't realize *are* icons is totally beyond me.


btw - from Jacque's email and BZ 2299, it looks as though this isn't a 
ubiquituous problem. Some people see it - others can try hard to 
reproduce it without success. I see it on every stack on all 6 of my 
Windows machines (W2000 and WinXP) - but apparently not everyone does - 
so it may not be as bad for your users as you expect.


I upgraded from Dreamcard to Studio just because of this problem (it was 
kind of nice to have an excuse :-)


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

No no, you're right, I wasn't thinking clearly. (How novel!) _One_  
version of the text-and-marks field, screen-shot and therefore  
reliable in size, with covering fields tailored to that immutable  
size. Yes, that ought to work. I'll try it, especially if I can't get  
the text-size-changing approach to work (which would be an easier  
path from where I am now).


Charles


On Jul 26, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

- you can display a screenshot of the field and not the field   
itself. This is my current favorite, because it's air-tight as  
long  as (1) you're only dealing with screen displays, not  
printing, and  (2) the displayed text will never need to be  
selected or edited by  the end user. This option also lets you  
use whatever font you like,  without regard to cross-platform  
anything.


If I understand what you're suggesting there at the end, it has  
the  same problem as the other solution I thought of: having  
alternative  versions of the text field in question, and replacing  
the initial  version (hey, presto) with a new one each time a  
button is pressed.  But it runs into a problem combinatorial  
explosion. If one card has  (say) four "hiding" fields to be  
hidden (revealing the underlying  marks), I have no way to predict  
the order in which the user will  click the buttons to do each of  
them. So I would need, just for that  card, sixteen versions of  
the field. Same with screenshots, as far as  I can see. Since  
there are several dozen cards in this section of the  stack,  
that's beginning to look like drudgery on a scale I can't afford.




Sorry if I lost something in the translation here, but... If your  
text (and the field) always had the exact same metrics throughout  
on both platforms, wouldn't that make your cover fields always  
work? If so, it seems to me that's what you'd get by using a  
screenshot of your field instead of the field itself.


Feel free to correct me...


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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

On Jul 26, 2005, at 6:43 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

PROBLEM 1: On WinXP, the cursor disappears whenever I mouse onto  
a  stack.






If you could add your comments to the bug report, the team might be  
able to track it down. I don't think it depends on the stack  
itself, since those people who report the problem say they have it  
no matter what stack is opened. But maybe you can work with the RR  
guys to determine if there is a system setting or something that is  
responsible.


OK, I added a confirming comment, with a tiny bit more detail.

PROBLEM 2: in "answer" commands, the choices I specify are there,  
but  they're in reversed order.


As others have mentioned, the HIG for each OS is different. So I  
don't think it is really a bug, since it is correct that the last  
button you list (the default button) should be on the left on a  
Windows box. If you do decide to write platform-specific code, be  
ready for one side or the other to notice. Windows users think the  
Mac order is backwards.


I see the point. OK, the platform-checking code isn't especially  
onerous -- if I had a lot of "answer" dialogs I suppose I could write  
a wrapper command. (Someday would it be nice to have pre-built cross- 
platform wrappers for the basic Transcript commands?)


PROBLEM 3: One interactive tutorial works like this: In Courier  
(for  the sake of monospaced alignment between lines) there's a  
line of  text, with a line of marks over it. The marks, in  
various  combinations at various times, are covered up by opaque,  
borderless  fields, which are hidden (revealing the mark below) in  
response to  mouse-clicks. But on WinXP, though the font is the  
same (Courier  New), the size is different! So the mark-hiding  
fields don't cover  their marks.


Right, you are up against one of the most common cross platform  
issues. Fonts of the same name and size are not identical on  
different operating systems. One way to manage this is to find  
(usually by trial and error) a size on one machine that matches a  
different size on another. (Dar has done some experiments with this.)


Do you know if those results are available anywhere? A table of  
comparative text-widths would be very handy,  at least for me.


Mac fonts are often wider, so for example, if your Mac is using  
Courier 12, you might find a match on Windows by using Courier 10  
or 11. You might have to juggle textheights the same way. Once you  
get the right sizes, you can run a quick preopencard handler that  
sets each field's textsize and/or textheight to whatever it needs.


I'm already doing a preOpenStack in the main stack to set the two  
fonts (one proportional, one monospace) according to what's available  
on the runtime system. If I knew the right sizes it sounds as though  
I could make the text fit the fields, backwards as that sounds. Time  
for a lot of rolling the chair from one machine to the other, I guess.


One other thing you could do, if there is enough room, is just make  
your cover fields large enough for the worst-case font size.


In many cases that would presumably work. Here, though, I have a lot  
of finicky little fields. An example (I hope this comes out in  
Courier after transmission):


  / x  |x   /  | x   (/)| x/   | x   /
 Why should I blame her that she filled my days
  x/|x(/)| /   x | x/  | x   /
 With misery, or that she would of late . . .

The marks get revealed -- the fields hiding them get hidden -- in  
stages (one stage per card): first the / and x marks over  
polysyllabic words, then the / marks over stressed monosyllables,  
then the rest of the x and / marks, and finally the | marks. Within  
each of these stage, order is determined by user. So I think I have  
to work with shrinking the text instead.


Many thanks for your careful & thoughtful advice.

Charles

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Phil Davis]

Richard Gaskin wrote:

Phil Davis wrote:


If your text (and the field) always had the exact same metrics
throughout on both platforms, wouldn't that make your cover
fields always work?



There's a font with identical metrics on multiple platforms?


Yep - it's called a snapshot of the screen (or at least of the field). 
:o)  That's what I was referring to as having the same metrics on all 
platforms. I guess I didn't finish connecting the dots in the 
explanation of my proposed solution.



Phil
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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

There's another bug or two (BZ 2138 and another one I can't see  
right now) that might be what you're seeing. These happen when you  
run a stack on WinXP by double-clicking on the stack icon. I  
created BZ 2138 for this problem with the Dreamcard Player - and  
since I wasn't sure if it was intended to allow this or not, I had  
to mark that as an enhancement. I'm sure I've seen another BZ entry  
for the same, or very similar, problem with the full product - but  
can't immediately find it.


I now never run stacks by double clicking them because of this  
problem - I either run them in the IDE, or build standalones.


But it wasn't clear whether you are double-clicking to run it or  
not, so this may not be the answer you need.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net


I'm running by double-clicking -- because all I've got is DreamCard,  
so I can't build standalones. And I suspect my users (they'll  
download the Win or Mac player, I hope from my site where they get  
the stack) will do it the same way. There's no evident other way to  
tell the Player to load the stack; I may have missed it -- but if so,  
users may well too. (I'll have to give them instructions anyway, of  
course.)


So -- it's a bug, already known. Is there also a known workaround?  
The app is hardly useable as it is.


Charles

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[J. Landman Gay]

Charles Hartman wrote:


PROBLEM 1: On WinXP, the cursor disappears whenever I mouse onto a  stack.


There's a Bugzilla report about this. It started a couple of versions 
ago but the team couldn't reproduce it. No one else complained, so the 
bug was closed. Recently another customer complained about it via tech 
support, so I re-opened the bug. I can't reproduce the behavior on my 
Windows machine either, so we don't know what causes it.


If you could add your comments to the bug report, the team might be able 
to track it down. I don't think it depends on the stack itself, since 
those people who report the problem say they have it no matter what 
stack is opened. But maybe you can work with the RR guys to determine if 
there is a system setting or something that is responsible.


The bugzilla report is here:





PROBLEM 2: in "answer" commands, the choices I specify are there, but  
they're in reversed order.


As others have mentioned, the HIG for each OS is different. So I don't 
think it is really a bug, since it is correct that the last button you 
list (the default button) should be on the left on a Windows box. If you 
do decide to write platform-specific code, be ready for one side or the 
other to notice. Windows users think the Mac order is backwards.




PROBLEM 3: One interactive tutorial works like this: In Courier (for  
the sake of monospaced alignment between lines) there's a line of  text, 
with a line of marks over it. The marks, in various  combinations at 
various times, are covered up by opaque, borderless  fields, which are 
hidden (revealing the mark below) in response to  mouse-clicks. But on 
WinXP, though the font is the same (Courier  New), the size is 
different! So the mark-hiding fields don't cover  their marks.


Right, you are up against one of the most common cross platform issues. 
Fonts of the same name and size are not identical on different operating 
systems. One way to manage this is to find (usually by trial and error) 
a size on one machine that matches a different size on another. (Dar has 
done some experiments with this.) Mac fonts are often wider, so for 
example, if your Mac is using Courier 12, you might find a match on 
Windows by using Courier 10 or 11. You might have to juggle textheights 
the same way. Once you get the right sizes, you can run a quick 
preopencard handler that sets each field's textsize and/or textheight to 
whatever it needs.


One other thing you could do, if there is enough room, is just make your 
cover fields large enough for the worst-case font size.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Richard Gaskin]

Phil Davis wrote:

If your text (and the field) always had the exact same metrics
throughout on both platforms, wouldn't that make your cover
fields always work?


There's a font with identical metrics on multiple platforms?

I would have bet on finding the Holy Grail before finding a font foundry 
that lives up to their claims. ;)


It may not be fair of me to put the blame on the foundry.  Each OS has 
such different mechanisms for rendering text that the woeful differences 
I've had to work around may well be just a by-product of the OSes rather 
than the fonts.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Alex Tweedly]

Charles Hartman wrote:

? I'm not using (specifying) anything in the way of icons at all. I  
do set the background (fill) color of the card differently in  
different parts of the main stack to keep the user oriented, but that  
doesn't look like the problem -- the cursor disappears over the  
_whole_ face of the stack, background, text fields, and all.





PROBLEM 1: On WinXP, the cursor disappears whenever I mouse
onto a stack.


dont use colors icons!
wait a coming release (i think there's been enough beaching
aboutit...



There's another bug or two (BZ 2138 and another one I can't see right 
now) that might be what you're seeing. These happen when you run a stack 
on WinXP by double-clicking on the stack icon. I created BZ 2138 for 
this problem with the Dreamcard Player - and since I wasn't sure if it 
was intended to allow this or not, I had to mark that as an enhancement. 
I'm sure I've seen another BZ entry for the same, or very similar, 
problem with the full product - but can't immediately find it.


I now never run stacks by double clicking them because of this problem - 
I either run them in the IDE, or build standalones.


But it wasn't clear whether you are double-clicking to run it or not, so 
this may not be the answer you need.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Phil Davis]

Charles Hartman wrote:

On Jul 26, 2005, at 4:11 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

-- snip --
- you can display a screenshot of the field and not the field  itself. 
This is my current favorite, because it's air-tight as long  as (1) 
you're only dealing with screen displays, not printing, and  (2) the 
displayed text will never need to be selected or edited by  the end 
user. This option also lets you use whatever font you like,  without 
regard to cross-platform anything.



If I understand what you're suggesting there at the end, it has the  
same problem as the other solution I thought of: having alternative  
versions of the text field in question, and replacing the initial  
version (hey, presto) with a new one each time a button is pressed.  But 
it runs into a problem combinatorial explosion. If one card has  (say) 
four "hiding" fields to be hidden (revealing the underlying  marks), I 
have no way to predict the order in which the user will  click the 
buttons to do each of them. So I would need, just for that  card, 
sixteen versions of the field. Same with screenshots, as far as  I can 
see. Since there are several dozen cards in this section of the  stack, 
that's beginning to look like drudgery on a scale I can't afford.


Sorry if I lost something in the translation here, but... If your text 
(and the field) always had the exact same metrics throughout on both 
platforms, wouldn't that make your cover fields always work? If so, it 
seems to me that's what you'd get by using a screenshot of your field 
instead of the field itself.


Feel free to correct me...

Phil
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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Ken Ray]

On 7/26/05 2:37 PM, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Charles,
> 
> Same wrong thing with file handling... but it does allow you
> to have the low-level edge...

What do you mean, Xavier? What is backwards with file handling?

> once you're made your standard ask and answer dialogs conform,
> you'll be sailing smoother...

Actually, Rev is designed to handle the differences when all you're
providing is OK and Cancel (in *that* case, reversing the buttons is correct
for the HIGs on both platforms); it's just that if you use any other buttons
it doesn't work right (i.e. it reverses them when it shouldn't).

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

On Jul 26, 2005, at 4:11 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

Even if you use Courier New and you find the Win and Mac equivalent  
textSizes, you'll still encounter the issue of different text  
origin points in the field on the respective platforms. (By 'origin  
point' I mean the x:y coordinate within the field where you would  
find the bottomLeft pixel of the first character in the field.)


OK, thanks. But how _do_ I find the real text size? The textSize  
property just gives it in points, and those are pretty clearly not  
equivalent cross-platform. Is there a text-size-in-pixels function  
I'm missing somewhere? (Especially text _length_ -- that's where I'm  
getting into trouble.)


If I had that, I could -- per platform -- figure the size of a bit of  
(Courier) text and adjust all the "hiding" fields accordingly, though  
it would sure be a chore.



You can manage the text origin issue a couple of ways:

- you can apply one set of field margins for Mac and another for  
Windows.


- you can position the field at different locs on the different  
platforms.


- you can display a screenshot of the field and not the field  
itself. This is my current favorite, because it's air-tight as long  
as (1) you're only dealing with screen displays, not printing, and  
(2) the displayed text will never need to be selected or edited by  
the end user. This option also lets you use whatever font you like,  
without regard to cross-platform anything.


If I understand what you're suggesting there at the end, it has the  
same problem as the other solution I thought of: having alternative  
versions of the text field in question, and replacing the initial  
version (hey, presto) with a new one each time a button is pressed.  
But it runs into a problem combinatorial explosion. If one card has  
(say) four "hiding" fields to be hidden (revealing the underlying  
marks), I have no way to predict the order in which the user will  
click the buttons to do each of them. So I would need, just for that  
card, sixteen versions of the field. Same with screenshots, as far as  
I can see. Since there are several dozen cards in this section of the  
stack, that's beginning to look like drudgery on a scale I can't afford.


I hope my description of the situation makes sense.

The solution I was trying to instantiate is one that worked quite  
simply in HyperCard (a thousand years ago). Of course that wasn't  
cross-platform.


Charles

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Phil Davis]

Charles Hartman wrote:
I've got an app (about 500kb) mostly finished in OSX, in DreamCard. I  
just got access to the Win XP machine I use to test x-platform apps.  I 
have three problems, and I'd be grateful for suggestions. The first  two 
are (I'm guessing) known and not too hard, though I don't see  anything 
in the docs to cover them. The third one I suspect may be  hard enough 
to make me wish I hadn't started on this project.


PROBLEM 1: ...

PROBLEM 2: ...

PROBLEM 3: One interactive tutorial works like this: In Courier (for  
the sake of monospaced alignment between lines) there's a line of  text, 
with a line of marks over it. The marks, in various  combinations at 
various times, are covered up by opaque, borderless  fields, which are 
hidden (revealing the mark below) in response to  mouse-clicks. But on 
WinXP, though the font is the same (Courier  New), the size is 
different! So the mark-hiding fields don't cover  their marks.


Hi Charles,

Even if you use Courier New and you find the Win and Mac equivalent 
textSizes, you'll still encounter the issue of different text origin 
points in the field on the respective platforms. (By 'origin point' I 
mean the x:y coordinate within the field where you would find the 
bottomLeft pixel of the first character in the field.)


You can manage the text origin issue a couple of ways:

- you can apply one set of field margins for Mac and another for Windows.

- you can position the field at different locs on the different platforms.

- you can display a screenshot of the field and not the field itself. 
This is my current favorite, because it's air-tight as long as (1) 
you're only dealing with screen displays, not printing, and (2) the 
displayed text will never need to be selected or edited by the end user. 
This option also lets you use whatever font you like, without regard to 
cross-platform anything.



HTH -
Phil Davis
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RE: Mac -> Win problems

[MisterX]

Charles,

Same wrong thing with file handling... but it does allow you
to have the low-level edge...

once you're made your standard ask and answer dialogs conform,
you'll be sailing smoother...

cheers
Xavier 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Hartman
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 20:55
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Mac -> Win problems
> 
> (this is off-list because I'm tired of being A Complainer on list)
> 
> Am I missing something? The HI guidelines for the two 
> platforms are different. Rev is a cross-platform app builder. 
> Yet it builds apps that -- in this low-level design area -- 
> don't conform to the different HIGs? There's a Rev engine for 
> Win, there's a Rev engine for Mac, they both talk to the 
> underlying platform to put up an "answer" dialog, and they 
> don't take account of this difference between the platforms? 
> Isn't there something wrong with this??
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:36 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
> 
> > Yes.  I believe so.  It is due to a difference in HIG for the two 
> > platforms.
> >
> > Judy
> > On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Charles Hartman wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Thanks. Let me just make sure I understand this part. Do you mean 
> >> that I need to have platform-dependency code in my stacks, 
> so every 
> >> time I use "answer" I'd need something like this?
> >>
> >> if tPlatform is "OSX" then
> >>  answer "Here's a sample" with "one" or "two" or "three"
> >> else
> >>  answer "Here's a sample" with "three" or "two" or "one"
> >> end if
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
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> >
> 
> Charles Hartman
> Professor of English, Poet in Residence
> Connecticut College
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *the Scandroid* is at cherry.conncoll.edu/cohar/Programs.htm
> 
> 
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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

(this is off-list because I'm tired of being A Complainer on list)

Am I missing something? The HI guidelines for the two platforms are  
different. Rev is a cross-platform app builder. Yet it builds apps  
that -- in this low-level design area -- don't conform to the  
different HIGs? There's a Rev engine for Win, there's a Rev engine  
for Mac, they both talk to the underlying platform to put up an  
"answer" dialog, and they don't take account of this difference  
between the platforms? Isn't there something wrong with this??


Charles



On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:36 PM, Judy Perry wrote:


Yes.  I believe so.  It is due to a difference in HIG for the two
platforms.

Judy
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Charles Hartman wrote:



Thanks. Let me just make sure I understand this part. Do you mean
that I need to have platform-dependency code in my stacks, so every
time I use "answer" I'd need something like this?

if tPlatform is "OSX" then
 answer "Here's a sample" with "one" or "two" or "three"
else
 answer "Here's a sample" with "three" or "two" or "one"
end if



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Charles Hartman
Professor of English, Poet in Residence
Connecticut College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*the Scandroid* is at cherry.conncoll.edu/cohar/Programs.htm


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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[David Burgun]

It's the age old "Ok" on right (Mac) or "Ok" on Left (Windoze). IMO, 
it is better to have a standard function that calls the answer (or 
whatever) command having swapped the buttons in necessary, e.g.\


function DoXPlatformDialog

if tPlatform is "OSX" then
  answer "Here's a sample" with "one" or "two" or "three"
else
  answer "Here's a sample" with "three" or "two" or "one"
end if

end DoXPlatformDialog

In one of my Apps, I actually create the button dymanically depending 
on the OS, that way you can position the "OK" and "Cancel" button 
appropriately depending on the OS.


Take Care
Dave


Yes.  I believe so.  It is due to a difference in HIG for the two
platforms.

Judy
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Charles Hartman wrote:


 Thanks. Let me just make sure I understand this part. Do you mean
 that I need to have platform-dependency code in my stacks, so every
 time I use "answer" I'd need something like this?


 > if tPlatform is "OSX" then

  answer "Here's a sample" with "one" or "two" or "three"
 else
  answer "Here's a sample" with "three" or "two" or "one"
 end if


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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Judy Perry]

Yes.  I believe so.  It is due to a difference in HIG for the two
platforms.

Judy
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Charles Hartman wrote:

> Thanks. Let me just make sure I understand this part. Do you mean
> that I need to have platform-dependency code in my stacks, so every
> time I use "answer" I'd need something like this?
>
> if tPlatform is "OSX" then
>  answer "Here's a sample" with "one" or "two" or "three"
> else
>  answer "Here's a sample" with "three" or "two" or "one"
> end if

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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

? I'm not using (specifying) anything in the way of icons at all. I  
do set the background (fill) color of the card differently in  
different parts of the main stack to keep the user oriented, but that  
doesn't look like the problem -- the cursor disappears over the  
_whole_ face of the stack, background, text fields, and all.


Charles

On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:10 PM, MisterX wrote:





PROBLEM 1: On WinXP, the cursor disappears whenever I mouse
onto a stack.



dont use colors icons!
wait a coming release (i think there's been enough beaching
aboutit...



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Re: Mac -> Win problems

[Charles Hartman]

Thanks. Let me just make sure I understand this part. Do you mean  
that I need to have platform-dependency code in my stacks, so every  
time I use "answer" I'd need something like this?


if tPlatform is "OSX" then
answer "Here's a sample" with "one" or "two" or "three"
else
answer "Here's a sample" with "three" or "two" or "one"
end if

(??)

I'm still working on the other parts of your very quick & helpful  
answer.


Charles


On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:10 PM, MisterX wrote:





PROBLEM 2: in "answer" commands, the choices I specify are
there, but they're in reversed order.



reverse the order of "your" buttons, works great!



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RE: Mac -> Win problems

[MisterX]

> PROBLEM 1: On WinXP, the cursor disappears whenever I mouse 
> onto a stack.

dont use colors icons!
wait a coming release (i think there's been enough beaching 
aboutit...

> PROBLEM 2: in "answer" commands, the choices I specify are 
> there, but they're in reversed order.

reverse the order of "your" buttons, works great!

> PROBLEM 3: One interactive tutorial works like this: In 
> Courier (for the sake of monospaced alignment between lines) 
> there's a line of text, with a line of marks over it. The 
> marks, in various combinations at various times, are covered 
> up by opaque, borderless fields, which are hidden (revealing 
> the mark below) in response to mouse-clicks. But on WinXP, 
> though the font is the same (Courier New), the size is 
> different! So the mark-hiding fields don't cover their marks.

try the lineheight text/line/field property and the fixedlineheight of
the field... this usually solves some problems (dont set it them too low...)

cheers
X

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