Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Brent Anderson]

Hello.

They say that it doesn't work yet with Intel Macs, which is what  
I'd want to use, but they are working on it.


Taken from the ReadMe for HamachiX

Intel macs are not working very well to date since not all of the  
underlying components are in universal binary format already.


This is interesting, as Hamachi is marked as Universal on Hamachi.cc  
and I haven't had any troubles with it (Apart from dealing with  
getting my firewall configured appropriately). I'm going to test out  
Hamachi under parallels and see if it really is zero-configuration or  
if it does need a few firewall tweaks.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[J. Landman Gay]

Brent Anderson wrote:

Hello.

I'd assume that it would only port forward on incoming WAN traffic since 
the router is performing network address translation. The forwarding 
lets the router know where incoming traffic should go since you could 
have hundreds of computers behind the same router. What kind of denial 
messages are you getting, as that could hint at what is causing the 
problem.


It said:
ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.6 port 22: Connection refused

Not much to go on. But then I tried it about an hour later and it 
worked. So I must have changed something, but I'm not sure what. It does 
help to know that internal IP addresses aren't affected by the router 
settings, so I could ignore that piece.


Also, Hamachi's GUI is Windows only IF you go through just Hamachi. 
There is a graphical client called HamachiX (http://hamachix.com) that 
does lack some of the functionality of the Windows version since it is 
not officially supported by the Hamachi team (Chatting, pings from in 
application, premium accounts, "magic ports") but does just as well and 
even lets you set up quick-connect options for FTP, AFP, SFTP, and other 
services. HamachiX is nice if you want the GUI, but the command line 
version (Which, I believe, is installed by HamachiX) is very functional 
and is sometimes preferable to the GUI if you're trying to troubleshoot 
your Hamachi connection. Type "hamachi -h" from the command line for 
usage information once it's installed on your system. If you're just 
looking for the command line, the source compilation instructions are 
rather lightweight and can be found in the included README file. It 
doesn't tell you that to do something as root you prepend the command 
with the command "sudo " and enter your administrator password.


I'll bookmark this. They say that it doesn't work yet with Intel Macs, 
which is what I'd want to use, but they are working on it. I can put it 
on my Powerbook though. As for compiling -- lightweight or no -- you 
have to remember you are talking to a command line idiot here. (But I do 
know about five words in Unix now. ;))


My eventual goal is to get VNC working via ssh, so I can help my mother 
with her computer. For anyone who is following my stumbling around, I'm 
trying to implement this trick:




I need to use reverse port mapping because my mom is behind a firewall 
that neither of us can control. I think I'm about 2/3 of the way there 
now. I made the self-running Terminal file and it seems to work (except 
for the warning I get once in a while that "checking getaddrinfo failed" 
and that I am a possible breakin attempt.)


Thanks for being willing to help while I muddle through this.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Brent Anderson]

Hello.

I'd assume that it would only port forward on incoming WAN traffic  
since the router is performing network address translation. The  
forwarding lets the router know where incoming traffic should go  
since you could have hundreds of computers behind the same router.  
What kind of denial messages are you getting, as that could hint at  
what is causing the problem.


Also, Hamachi's GUI is Windows only IF you go through just Hamachi.  
There is a graphical client called HamachiX (http://hamachix.com)  
that does lack some of the functionality of the Windows version since  
it is not officially supported by the Hamachi team (Chatting, pings  
from in application, premium accounts, "magic ports") but does just  
as well and even lets you set up quick-connect options for FTP, AFP,  
SFTP, and other services. HamachiX is nice if you want the GUI, but  
the command line version (Which, I believe, is installed by HamachiX)  
is very functional and is sometimes preferable to the GUI if you're  
trying to troubleshoot your Hamachi connection. Type "hamachi -h"  
from the command line for usage information once it's installed on  
your system. If you're just looking for the command line, the source  
compilation instructions are rather lightweight and can be found in  
the included README file. It doesn't tell you that to do something as  
root you prepend the command with the command "sudo " and enter your  
administrator password.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC


On Jan 16, 2007, at 3:36 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


Brent Anderson wrote:

Hello,
Using either Hamachi or a VPN should be all you need to connect  
any group of computers across the internet for any service,  
including VNC.


I was just looking at Hamachi but it is pretty much Windows-only.  
They say you can compile it for Linux and OS X but that's beyond me.


Meanwhile, I am finding that I can ssh over the local network only  
to one machine. Attempts to connect to any other local machine are  
denied (they all have port 22 open on their firewalls.) I thought  
that if I was using local IPs (for example, ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED])  
that the router would allow traffic to pass anywhere inside the  
LAN. But it isn't working that way. I can ssh only to the computer  
that is receiving the port forward from the router. Is that correct  
behavior? Is it supposed to forward all traffic on port 22 from  
both the LAN and the WAN?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[J. Landman Gay]

Brent Anderson wrote:

Hello,

Using either Hamachi or a VPN should be all you need to connect any 
group of computers across the internet for any service, including VNC.


I was just looking at Hamachi but it is pretty much Windows-only. They 
say you can compile it for Linux and OS X but that's beyond me.


Meanwhile, I am finding that I can ssh over the local network only to 
one machine. Attempts to connect to any other local machine are denied 
(they all have port 22 open on their firewalls.) I thought that if I was 
using local IPs (for example, ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED]) that the router 
would allow traffic to pass anywhere inside the LAN. But it isn't 
working that way. I can ssh only to the computer that is receiving the 
port forward from the router. Is that correct behavior? Is it supposed 
to forward all traffic on port 22 from both the LAN and the WAN?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Brent Anderson]

Hello,

Using either Hamachi or a VPN should be all you need to connect any  
group of computers across the internet for any service, including VNC.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC
On Jan 16, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Josh Mellicker wrote:

FWIW, I consider this very on topic since, if a Rev coder could  
enable VNC screen sharing/control with a client or other coder on  
the team, this could make certain remote workflows flow much more  
smoothly!


Has anyone VNCed between two remote firewalled locations using port  
forwarding or hamachi?




On Jan 15, 2007, at 5:58 PM, Brent Anderson wrote:


Hello,

Before finishing this thread, it is important to note that this  
technique applies to any service that you are trying to serve to  
the internet (www, ftp, ssh, my-favorite-internet-game) etc.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Josh Mellicker]

FWIW, I consider this very on topic since, if a Rev coder could  
enable VNC screen sharing/control with a client or other coder on the  
team, this could make certain remote workflows flow much more smoothly!


Has anyone VNCed between two remote firewalled locations using port  
forwarding or hamachi?




On Jan 15, 2007, at 5:58 PM, Brent Anderson wrote:


Hello,

Before finishing this thread, it is important to note that this  
technique applies to any service that you are trying to serve to  
the internet (www, ftp, ssh, my-favorite-internet-game) etc.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[J. Landman Gay]

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

Now about the issue of dynamic WAN IPs. There are a few services you can
sign up with for free that act sort of like a DNS service for private
routers. They allow you to log in to an account name instead of an IP
number, and will re-route the name to the current WAN IP of your home
router. Every time your ISP changes the number, your router informs the
service and they update the routing info. Most routers these days
support this stuff, I think. My Netgear router supports any of three of
these services, one of which is dyndns.org, which is what I will
probably use. Once you sign up, you just set your router to notify the
service at every IP change.


I use dyndns and fine it very satisfactory but be very careful about
using your router to update it for you. I tried this using a Netgear
router and got blacklisted for submitting changes every few minutes.
Go to the dyndns site and find a client. For Mac OS X DNSUpdate works
flawlessly and unobtrusively.


Thanks very much for this. I was going to use the router. I did see the 
warning on dyndns's web site but assumed the router would handle things 
correctly.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Sarah Reichelt]

Now about the issue of dynamic WAN IPs. There are a few services you can
sign up with for free that act sort of like a DNS service for private
routers. They allow you to log in to an account name instead of an IP
number, and will re-route the name to the current WAN IP of your home
router. Every time your ISP changes the number, your router informs the
service and they update the routing info. Most routers these days
support this stuff, I think. My Netgear router supports any of three of
these services, one of which is dyndns.org, which is what I will
probably use. Once you sign up, you just set your router to notify the
service at every IP change.


I use dyndns and fine it very satisfactory but be very careful about
using your router to update it for you. I tried this using a Netgear
router and got blacklisted for submitting changes every few minutes.
Go to the dyndns site and find a client. For Mac OS X DNSUpdate works
flawlessly and unobtrusively.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Brent Anderson]

Hello,

Before finishing this thread, it is important to note that this  
technique applies to any service that you are trying to serve to the  
internet (www, ftp, ssh, my-favorite-internet-game) etc.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Sarah Reichelt]

Since it was off topic, we transferred the conversation to a private
email thread. Here are the emails that were exchanged following the
last public post.



Thanks for that Brent & Jacque. I want to set that up for myself some
time, so it was good to follow the path.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[J. Landman Gay]

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

I don't know about anyone else, but I am very interested in this
thread and would like to see it remain on list.


Okay, I guess I owe it to the list to say what went wrong and how I 
solved it. I did solve it, by the way, because having to write 
everything up for Brent in a private mail forced me to re-read what I'd 
done. When I did that, I finally noticed -- after days of frustration -- 
that I had made a (oh, this is embarrasing) typo. When I fixed my typo, 
voila, it all worked. So I feel stupid. But relieved.


The upshoot is that, yes, it is easy to enable remote SSH in OS X 
provided you can type correctly. Here is how:


1. In System Preferences, Sharing pane: turn on Remote Login. This opens 
up port 22 in the software firewall and allows SSH traffic to your Mac.


2. If you have a router connected to your internet pipe, forward port 22 
to the local IP address of the Mac you want to connect to. For me this 
was 192.168.0.2, which is the static IP of my desktop Mac on our home 
LAN. (This is where I made the typo. I swapped a couple of the numbers. 
No wonder it didn't work, my router was sending info into the cybervoid.)


3. Find out what your public WAN IP is; this is the one the world sees 
on the internet. You can look at your router logs for that info, or else 
go here to find out: . This is the IP you 
need to use for SSH from a remote location. Note that most ISPs will 
change this number periodically. There are services you can use to 
accomodate that, but for my tests I just used the currently assigned IP.


That should be all you need to do. Now take your laptop to an internet 
cafe somewhere, open Terminal, and type:


ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Substitute a valid user account on your home Mac for "user" and your WAN 
IP address for the 123s. You should get a password prompt, and then you 
are in. Unless, of course, you make a typo. :)


Now about the issue of dynamic WAN IPs. There are a few services you can 
sign up with for free that act sort of like a DNS service for private 
routers. They allow you to log in to an account name instead of an IP 
number, and will re-route the name to the current WAN IP of your home 
router. Every time your ISP changes the number, your router informs the 
service and they update the routing info. Most routers these days 
support this stuff, I think. My Netgear router supports any of three of 
these services, one of which is dyndns.org, which is what I will 
probably use. Once you sign up, you just set your router to notify the 
service at every IP change. Then when you SSH in to your Mac, you can 
use your assigned name/account info instead of a number:


ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If your router doesn't support this service natively, I understand there 
is software you can run on your Mac that will do the same thing.


Hope this helps.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Brent Anderson]

Hello.

Since it was off topic, we transferred the conversation to a private  
email thread. Here are the emails that were exchanged following the  
last public post.



It's fine if you contact me privately. If your router is claiming to  
be forwarding correctly, then I'm not sure where the hang-up would  
be. Assuming you used Sharing to enable SSH, the firewall on your mac  
automatically opens the port it needs. Do you have Stealth Mode  
enabled, perhaps? On Tiger if you click the Advanced button on the  
Firewall tab you can access the firewall log. That may provide a  
little more insight into your problem. If the log is kept on previous  
versions of OS X, it should be located at /var/log/ipfw.log and is  
accessible using the application /Applications/Utillities/ 
Console.app. I hope that works for you.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson



Hi. I hope it is okay to contact you offlist. I need to get SSH  
working from outside my local network. I've tried just about  
everything with no success. If you don't have time to help, I really  
do understand. Please don't feel obligated.


Here is what I've done so far. I want my desktop Mac to receive the  
SSH requests. On that Mac, I have:


Enabled Remote Login in the Sharing prefs
Added ports 5900-5902 to the open ports in the firewall (for eventual  
VNC later on)
Set my network router to forward port 22 to the local IP address of  
my Mac


Then I get on my Powerbook. If I am on the local network and use the  
local IP for SSH, it works fine. I can SSH to the desktop Mac, and  
see everything in Terminal. If I turn on Remote Desktop on the  
desktop Mac, I can use a VNC viewer to see and work with the desktop  
Mac.


Then I took my Powerbook to a nearby internet cafe. I issused this  
command from Terminal: ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED]


where "user" is a non-priveleged account on the desktop Mac and  
"75.72.193.146" is the current IP of the WAN address on my router.  
Terminal is completely unresponsvie for about a minute, and then I  
get the message "Could not connect to 75.72.193.146. Operation timed  
out." There is no other info and I am never asked for a password. I  
tried this several times. Sometimes I used this command instead:


  ssh -L 5900:127.0.0.1:5900 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

just to see if I could map ports for VNC, but that failed the same  
way, no connection with a timeout.


When I got back home, I looked at the router logs. It showed that a  
connection request was received and forwarded to my desktop Mac:


Sun, 01/14/2007 12:10:07 - SSH forwarded - Source:71.210.170.117,  
52180, WAN - Destination:75.72.193.146, 22, LAN
Sun, 01/14/2007 12:10:07 - SSH forwarded - Source:71.210.170.117,  
52180, WAN - Destination:198.162.0.2, 22, WAN


I'm not sure why there are two entries, but each attempt I made has  
the same 2 lines. Maybe there is something wrong with the port  
forwarding? The desktop Mac is correctly assigned at 198.162.0.2,  
which is a static local IP.


Do you have any ideas? I know very little about this, but it looks to  
me like everything is going fine until the request hits my desktop  
Mac, which then never responds. There is a "stealth" checkbox in the  
"advanced" settings in the firewall pane in Sharing prefs, but I did  
not turn that on.


Again, if you don't have time for any of this, I really do  
understand. Please don't feel obligated. But if you do have time, I'd  
really appreciate any advice you can offer.


Thanks much.

Jacque
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Brent Anderson wrote:

It's fine if you contact me privately. If your router is claiming  
to be forwarding correctly, then I'm not sure where the hang-up  
would be. Assuming you used Sharing to enable SSH, the firewall on  
your mac automatically opens the port it needs. Do you have Stealth  
Mode enabled, perhaps? On Tiger if you click the Advanced button on  
the Firewall tab you can access the firewall log. That may provide  
a little more insight into your problem. If the log is kept on  
previous versions of OS X, it should be located at /var/log/ 
ipfw.log and is accessible using the application /Applications/ 
Utillities/Console.app. I hope that works for you.




I have fixed it -- all because of you. :)

Sometimes when you write it all down, you start to see things  you  
didn't before. I had my router pointing to an incorrect local IP. I'd  
swapped a couple of numbers by mistake. When I fixed that and  
forwarded to the correct IP -- that is, 192.168.0.2 -- by george, it  
works.


I feel both relieved and stupid. But I thank you for making me write  
it all down. :) I'm happy now.


Jacque

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Hello.

Glad I could help.

Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC

 END OF THREAD *

There you have it. Everything was in place to begin wit

Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Sarah Reichelt]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am very interested in this
thread and would like to see it remain on list.

Cheers,
Sarah


On 1/16/07, J. Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Brent Anderson wrote:
> Hello.

Thanks very much for the response.

>
> It's very easy to set up SSH on your Mac (System Preferences > Sharing >
> Check "Remote Login" box) but you may have a few pitfalls in the way if
> you're trying to connect from anywhere other than your local network.
> You didn't specify too much detail, but I would assume you're trying to
> connect to your mac from outside your home network (From work, perhaps)
> and your problem is probably any firewall you have between your desktop
> Mac and your "remote location." The firewall at the remote location (if
> any) shouldn't be a problem as most firewalls only lock out outgoing
> connections rather than incoming ones. Since this is the case, you'll
> need to open port 22 on your firewall (Probably using port forwarding,
> but port triggering may work as well).

Right. I can connect from within the local network just fine. When I try
to connect from outside, I get no response from my home Mac and
eventually a timeout. My local router is set up to forward port 22 to my
desktop Mac. The router logs seem to indicate that my outside request is
arriving and the router is forwarding.

I didn't want to gum up the list with unrelated chatter, so I hope it's
okay if I contact you privately. You're the only response I've received,
so my last hope. ;)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[J. Landman Gay]

Brent Anderson wrote:

Hello.


Thanks very much for the response.



It's very easy to set up SSH on your Mac (System Preferences > Sharing > 
Check "Remote Login" box) but you may have a few pitfalls in the way if 
you're trying to connect from anywhere other than your local network. 
You didn't specify too much detail, but I would assume you're trying to 
connect to your mac from outside your home network (From work, perhaps) 
and your problem is probably any firewall you have between your desktop 
Mac and your "remote location." The firewall at the remote location (if 
any) shouldn't be a problem as most firewalls only lock out outgoing 
connections rather than incoming ones. Since this is the case, you'll 
need to open port 22 on your firewall (Probably using port forwarding, 
but port triggering may work as well).


Right. I can connect from within the local network just fine. When I try 
to connect from outside, I get no response from my home Mac and 
eventually a timeout. My local router is set up to forward port 22 to my 
desktop Mac. The router logs seem to indicate that my outside request is 
arriving and the router is forwarding.


I didn't want to gum up the list with unrelated chatter, so I hope it's 
okay if I contact you privately. You're the only response I've received, 
so my last hope. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: SSH on OS X

[Brent Anderson]

Hello.

It's very easy to set up SSH on your Mac (System Preferences >  
Sharing > Check "Remote Login" box) but you may have a few pitfalls  
in the way if you're trying to connect from anywhere other than your  
local network. You didn't specify too much detail, but I would assume  
you're trying to connect to your mac from outside your home network  
(From work, perhaps) and your problem is probably any firewall you  
have between your desktop Mac and your "remote location." The  
firewall at the remote location (if any) shouldn't be a problem as  
most firewalls only lock out outgoing connections rather than  
incoming ones. Since this is the case, you'll need to open port 22 on  
your firewall (Probably using port forwarding, but port triggering  
may work as well).


I would highly recommend using Hamachi (http://www.hamachi.cc) if  
you're trying to make connections between remote computers. Hamachi  
sets up a virtual private network that effectively connects computers  
as if on a local area network. The free version works, but the  
premium version will overcome any firewall or NAT problems you may  
have. There is a client for Mac OS X Called HamachiX (http:// 
hamachix.spaceants.net/)  that, although not officially supported by  
the Hamachi team, works great and does everything I've needed it too.  
I've tested using hamachi without any firewall settings and it works  
most of the time. If you have trouble with it, you can open a command  
line, type "hamachi logout" "hamachi stop" and "hamachi start debug"  
in one window to switch it all off and then turn on a window to  
monitor it's progress. From there open another window and type  
"hamachi login" to watch for any problems in the startup process. It  
will tell you where it is connecting (Including the port) and if it  
is successful or not. That way you can tune your firewall settings to  
fit any problems you may be having with Hamachi.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
CMSEC
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