Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
chris bohnert wrote: Mark, Just my opinion here as issues surrounding MySQL's interpretation of the GPL seem to get foggier by the day. I'd imagine that Runrev avoids having to deal with RealBasics issues by using the older LGPL'd connector (which presumably stops working somewhere in the Mysql development roadmap). The problem here is that the older connector does not support many of the newer features. Realbasic specifically decided they needed support for the newer features and were thus willing to eat the GPL license for their connector. Interesting enough, the way I understand it, MySql offers a commercial license for its newer connector but that license may not be used to generate a plugin that connects to the GPL'd version of the MySql server...it may only connect to a commercially licensed version of their server. The FUD surrounding this issue has worked on me and we dropped all direct connection support for MySql about a year ago. We either use a different db or proxy requests through a php call. -- cb rambling a bit... I don't really know enough to speak intelligently to his issue, but years ago my gut feeling was, seeing the MySql fog on the horizon... to stick with PostGreSQL for building systems on our web server. Since one of our lead developers uses PostGreSQL at work, and wanted to use PostGreSQL...this made it an easy decision. But every now and then we teeter over to sure, go ahead and build it in MySQL if you are more comfortable with that... And there are huge LAMP systems out there based on it... (Moogle, XOOPs etc.) some of which we might like to adopt and we would certainly want Rev interoperability... So my question is a bit tangential, assuming one has the choice, doesn't using PostGreSQL give us the best of all worlds? -- free -- open source -- no connection/licensing constraints (though I guess the PHP proxy call to MySQL is a viable solution... Pierre Sahores has been making that work for years) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
On the other hand, I don't think MySQL is entirely blameless here. Clearly, they arent being good dance partners with REAL. Cooperation between the makers of the IDE and the makers of the database back end is a win for everyone. I completely agree. Cant we have one hand ringing, evil laughing gloat out of you anyway Mark? :-) ...rotfl coming right up... http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_ef fect_WAV_files/evil_laugh.wav Okay, I admit, that's a good one :-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
The plug-in still exists but will be maintained and supported by a different entity. It's still GPL and still free. Not sure why they did it that way, but that's what they did. Alan Mark Wieder wrote: Apparently RealBasic will no longer support MySQL as a database option except through external ODBC drivers. It seems that their plugin was developed under a GPL license. http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/development/index.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
Lynn- I do realize you have a conflict of interest here in the desire to promote Valentina, but dare I say that I see a marketing opportunity for runrev, since we support MySQL innately without the need for GPL-licensed external drivers? And thus have a chance to win over some of the alienated RB developers... ...I didn't post the news item to gloat, but in the hopes that someone would take the baton and run with it... -- Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
Mark, Just my opinion here as issues surrounding MySQL's interpretation of the GPL seem to get foggier by the day. I'd imagine that Runrev avoids having to deal with RealBasics issues by using the older LGPL'd connector (which presumably stops working somewhere in the Mysql development roadmap). The problem here is that the older connector does not support many of the newer features. Realbasic specifically decided they needed support for the newer features and were thus willing to eat the GPL license for their connector. Interesting enough, the way I understand it, MySql offers a commercial license for its newer connector but that license may not be used to generate a plugin that connects to the GPL'd version of the MySql server...it may only connect to a commercially licensed version of their server. The FUD surrounding this issue has worked on me and we dropped all direct connection support for MySql about a year ago. We either use a different db or proxy requests through a php call. -- cb On 9/12/07, Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lynn- I do realize you have a conflict of interest here in the desire to promote Valentina, but dare I say that I see a marketing opportunity for runrev, since we support MySQL innately without the need for GPL-licensed external drivers? And thus have a chance to win over some of the alienated RB developers... ...I didn't post the news item to gloat, but in the hopes that someone would take the baton and run with it... -- Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
On 12/9/07 8:31 PM, chris bohnert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, Just my opinion here as issues surrounding MySQL's interpretation of the GPL seem to get foggier by the day. I'd imagine that Runrev avoids having to deal with RealBasics issues by using the older LGPL'd connector (which presumably stops working somewhere in the Mysql development roadmap). The problem here is that the older connector does not support many of the newer features. Realbasic specifically decided they needed support for the newer features and were thus willing to eat the GPL license for their connector. I agree. For example, I did have CocaMySQL built on old drivers, And when our HOST provider have start to use mySQL 5.0, It simply did not work in 50% of cases. Have gone 6-8 months while new CocoaMySQL was shipped. Btw, even for older drivers WAS ALSO commercial license. They always did sale mySQL for money to DESKTOP Application developers. Interesting enough, the way I understand it, MySql offers a commercial license for its newer connector but that license may not be used to generate a plugin that connects to the GPL'd version of the MySql server...it may only connect to a commercially licensed version of their server. The FUD surrounding this issue has worked on me and we dropped all direct connection support for MySql about a year ago. We either use a different db or proxy requests through a php call. Point is: mySQL is attractive for ISP and may be other WEB developers. but for DESKTOP applications they are not friendly. -- Best regards, Ruslan Zasukhin VP Engineering and New Technology Paradigma Software, Inc Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com [I feel the need: the need for speed] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
On Sep 12, 2007, at 10:31 AM, chris bohnert wrote: we dropped all direct connection support for MySql about a year ago. We either use a different db or proxy requests through a php call. Chris, Did you settle on a simple PHP script that receives SQL statements from Rev and simply relays them on to the localhost MySQL? And then relays raw output back? (Along with appropriate security measures of course) --- The reason I ask is when I first started down the Rev - PHP - remote db path I wrote the SQL, and much of the parsing of the returned data in PHP. I was trying to make it easy in Rev, just sending requests (similar to function calls, like getCustomers), then having PHP nicely format data before returning. It turned into a real headache having to switch languages and dev environments, and deciding what part of the data processing belonged where. Then, I realized you could just write a simple PHP script that took completely formatted SQL and simply bounced them to MySQL... and bounced the raw data back... but have not tried it yet. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
I do realize you have a conflict of interest here in the desire to promote Valentina, but dare I say that I see a marketing opportunity for runrev, since we support MySQL innately without the need for GPL-licensed external drivers? And thus have a chance to win over some of the alienated RB developers... ...I didn't post the news item to gloat, but in the hopes that someone would take the baton and run with it... It's a double opportunity Mark. If you are locked into MySQL, then writing a front end in Rev is the only real alternative if you want to deploy on the exact same operating systems as REALbasic supports. On the other hand, I don't think MySQL is entirely blameless here. Clearly, they arent being good dance partners with REAL. Cooperation between the makers of the IDE and the makers of the database back end is a win for everyone. Cant we have one hand ringing, evil laughing gloat out of you anyway Mark? :-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
Lynn- On the other hand, I don't think MySQL is entirely blameless here. Clearly, they arent being good dance partners with REAL. Cooperation between the makers of the IDE and the makers of the database back end is a win for everyone. I completely agree. Cant we have one hand ringing, evil laughing gloat out of you anyway Mark? :-) ...rotfl coming right up... http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_effect_WAV_files/evil_laugh.wav -- Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RealBasic pulls MySQL support
Apparently RealBasic will no longer support MySQL as a database option except through external ODBC drivers. It seems that their plugin was developed under a GPL license. http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/development/index.html I prefer BSD type licenses, but basically, the GPL disallows people from taking the code, change it slightly, then patent it. In regards to mySQL externals that contain GPL'ed code, they need to release the external under the GPL as it counts as derivative work. However, using said external in a closed source project is not prohibited. On the other hand, if the code of RealBasic and the GPL mySQL external share one data space, they're considered as one program. Of course, only the people that made the external interact with RealBasic can really answer that. Excerpt from the GPL 2 regarding non derivative, independent code: These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. Source: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html From the GPL2 FAQ: Can I release a non-free program that's designed to load a GPL-covered plug-in? It depends on how the program invokes its plug-ins. If the program uses fork and exec to invoke plug-ins, then the plug-ins are separate programs, so the license of the plug-in makes no requirements about the main program. If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single program, which must be treated as an extension of both the main program and the plug-ins. Source: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0- faq.html#NFUseGPLPlugins Have fun Bjoernke -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev; ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
