Re: data from USB joystick

[David Glasgow]

On 29 Sep 2010, at 6:00 pm, -=>JB<=- wrote:

> 
> Exactly and that is why I did not mention it in my first response
> because it sounded to me like he wanted to write code that is
> going to allow his program to communicate with a USD device
> and not depend on anything but his program.

You are correct in what you understood, that would be ideal - and I am sure 
would be valuable to many LiveCode users.  

However, I am desperate to know whether my idea will work or not, so, I can do 
some development & testing work using USBOverdrive, and then worry about how to 
package it all up neatly (and cross platform) later, if it does work.


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow
Carlton Glasgow Partnership

i-psych.co.uk
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Re: data from USB joystick

[-=>JB<=-]

You are welcome.  If the problem bugs you a lot maybe try
contacting the developer and explain it.  Possibly he will
fix it for you sometime or tell you a work around solution.

-=>JB<=-


On Oct 1, 2010, at 12:29 AM, David Glasgow wrote:

> 
> 
> On 28 Sep 2010, at 6:00 pm, -=>JB<=- wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mac I use USB Overdrive.
>> 
>> http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html
>> 
>> -=>JB<=-
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> I downloaded this shareware, and it does the trick on Mac.  You can set it up 
> so a joystick generates rawkey messages.  This won't be  a solution for 
> delivering a final product, but at least I will be able to do some 
> development work.
> 
> The only fly in the ointment is that even when disabled, USBOverdrive blocks 
> scrolling on my Magic Mouse.  It is bad enough that I travel England stroking 
> other people's mice and shouting "D,Oh!" but now I do it on my own mouse.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> David Glasgow
> Carlton Glasgow Partnership
> 
> i-psych.co.uk
> 
> 
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Re: data from USB joystick

[David Glasgow]

On 28 Sep 2010, at 6:00 pm, -=>JB<=- wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Mac I use USB Overdrive.
> 
> http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html
> 
> -=>JB<=-

Thanks for the suggestion.

I downloaded this shareware, and it does the trick on Mac.  You can set it up 
so a joystick generates rawkey messages.  This won't be  a solution for 
delivering a final product, but at least I will be able to do some development 
work.

The only fly in the ointment is that even when disabled, USBOverdrive blocks 
scrolling on my Magic Mouse.  It is bad enough that I travel England stroking 
other people's mice and shouting "D,Oh!" but now I do it on my own mouse.

Best Wishes,

David Glasgow
Carlton Glasgow Partnership

i-psych.co.uk


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Re: data from USB joystick

[-=>JB<=-]

Exactly and that is why I did not mention it in my first response
because it sounded to me like he wanted to write code that is
going to allow his program to communicate with a USD device
and not depend on anything but his program.

Which brings us back to my answer that I was writing a stack
that uses the serial port commands.  I can send it to anyone
who wants it and it will open the port and allow you to send
text but after a certain amount of text is sent nothing else will
be sent which makes me think Rev is using a memory buffer
that fills up and unless you can empty this buffer you will not
be able to send more text.

I found to communicate with a USD device on a mac with Rev
which is now Livecode you need to open the serial port and
then you need a driver to communicate with the USB device.
Someone gave me a driver that might work but I never finished
the stack for a couple of reasons.  One of the reasons was the
problem of the buffer overflow or what ever is causing things
to stop.  At the time Mark Schonewille was thinking the file
might need to be sent as a binary so I coded it to be sent as
a binary and the problem was exactly the same.  It might be
possible to use the ADT commands to control the buffer if
you are using a modem but even if you can I am not sure
if they would work on everything.

So it sounds if he wants to do it he will need to rely on some
external programs like you mentioned but if anyone knows
the answer or wants the serial port stack I have created to
test please let me know.

-=>JB<=-


On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Richmond wrote:

> On 09/29/2010 01:05 AM, -=>JB<=- wrote:
>> The info below is from the USB Overdrive docs.
>> 
>> • Introduction
>> ◊  The USB Overdrive is a universal USB driver that handles all USB mice, 
>> trackballs, joysticks and gamepads from any manufacturer and lets you 
>> configure them either globally or on an application-specific basis. It reads 
>> all kinds of wheels, buttons, switches and controls and supports scrolling, 
>> keyboard emulation, launching as well as all the usual stuff like clicking, 
>> control-clicking and so forth. The USB Overdrive can easily handle several 
>> USB devices at once- I have two mice, one trackball, two joysticks and one 
>> gamepad connected to the same iMac, and each of them comes from a different 
>> manufacturer.
>> ◊  Because each control in each device can be fully configured, the USB 
>> Overdrive lets you use any joystick or gamepad with any game, including the 
>> ones that don't support Apple's InputSprocket. You can map your joystick 
>> movements and buttons to the keyboard and mouse to make the game believe 
>> you're playing on the keyboard, and you can do this mapping separately for 
>> each game so that it's immediately available as soon as the game is launched.
>> ◊  The mouse settings allow you to speed up your daily tasks by assigning 
>> useful actions to all the extra buttons and wheels in your USB mouse. You'll 
>> typically want to assign a control-click to the right button for easy 
>> contextual menu acces, and enable document scrolling if your mouse has a 
>> scrolling wheel.
>> ◊  The Control Panel includes an active help feature that explains each 
>> command and option as you move the cursor around.
>> 
>> -=>JB<=-
>> 
>> 
> Of course this STILL means an end-user has to install something other than 
> just a RunRev / LiveCode
> standalone.
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Re: data from USB joystick

[Richmond]

 On 09/29/2010 01:05 AM, -=>JB<=- wrote:

The info below is from the USB Overdrive docs.

• Introduction
◊  The USB Overdrive is a universal USB driver that handles all USB mice, 
trackballs, joysticks and gamepads from any manufacturer and lets you configure 
them either globally or on an application-specific basis. It reads all kinds of 
wheels, buttons, switches and controls and supports scrolling, keyboard 
emulation, launching as well as all the usual stuff like clicking, 
control-clicking and so forth. The USB Overdrive can easily handle several USB 
devices at once- I have two mice, one trackball, two joysticks and one gamepad 
connected to the same iMac, and each of them comes from a different 
manufacturer.
◊  Because each control in each device can be fully configured, the USB 
Overdrive lets you use any joystick or gamepad with any game, including the 
ones that don't support Apple's InputSprocket. You can map your joystick 
movements and buttons to the keyboard and mouse to make the game believe you're 
playing on the keyboard, and you can do this mapping separately for each game 
so that it's immediately available as soon as the game is launched.
◊  The mouse settings allow you to speed up your daily tasks by assigning 
useful actions to all the extra buttons and wheels in your USB mouse. You'll 
typically want to assign a control-click to the right button for easy 
contextual menu acces, and enable document scrolling if your mouse has a 
scrolling wheel.
◊  The Control Panel includes an active help feature that explains each command 
and option as you move the cursor around.

-=>JB<=-


 Of course this STILL means an end-user has to install something other 
than just a RunRev / LiveCode

standalone.
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Re: data from USB joystick

[-=>JB<=-]

The info below is from the USB Overdrive docs.

• Introduction
◊  The USB Overdrive is a universal USB driver that handles all USB mice, 
trackballs, joysticks and gamepads from any manufacturer and lets you configure 
them either globally or on an application-specific basis. It reads all kinds of 
wheels, buttons, switches and controls and supports scrolling, keyboard 
emulation, launching as well as all the usual stuff like clicking, 
control-clicking and so forth. The USB Overdrive can easily handle several USB 
devices at once- I have two mice, one trackball, two joysticks and one gamepad 
connected to the same iMac, and each of them comes from a different 
manufacturer.
◊  Because each control in each device can be fully configured, the USB 
Overdrive lets you use any joystick or gamepad with any game, including the 
ones that don't support Apple's InputSprocket. You can map your joystick 
movements and buttons to the keyboard and mouse to make the game believe you're 
playing on the keyboard, and you can do this mapping separately for each game 
so that it's immediately available as soon as the game is launched.
◊  The mouse settings allow you to speed up your daily tasks by assigning 
useful actions to all the extra buttons and wheels in your USB mouse. You'll 
typically want to assign a control-click to the right button for easy 
contextual menu acces, and enable document scrolling if your mouse has a 
scrolling wheel.
◊  The Control Panel includes an active help feature that explains each command 
and option as you move the cursor around.

-=>JB<=-


On Sep 28, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> How does that work?  Do you still open it as a joystick device or does 
> USBoverdrive convert the joystick to some other device?  Does this do more 
> than calibrate the joystick?  -- Dar
> 
> On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:42 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:
> 
>> I don't know but the developer sounds like they are
>> continuing to improve it from the info they provide
>> and might even add something if asked since they
>> have listed a number of things they have recently
>> added.
>> 
>> -=>JB<=-
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Richmond wrote:
>> 
>>> On 09/28/2010 01:38 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:
 On Mac I use USB Overdrive.
 
 http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html
 
 -=>JB<=-
 
 
>>> 
>>> Will that take signals from any USB mouse / trackball / joystick / 
>>> steering-wheel / foot-pedal
>>> and output them as keyDowns ??/
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Re: data from USB joystick

[Dar Scott]

How does that work?  Do you still open it as a joystick device or  
does USBoverdrive convert the joystick to some other device?  Does  
this do more than calibrate the joystick?  -- Dar


On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:42 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:


I don't know but the developer sounds like they are
continuing to improve it from the info they provide
and might even add something if asked since they
have listed a number of things they have recently
added.

-=>JB<=-


On Sep 28, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Richmond wrote:


On 09/28/2010 01:38 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:

On Mac I use USB Overdrive.

http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html

-=>JB<=-




Will that take signals from any USB mouse / trackball / joystick /  
steering-wheel / foot-pedal

and output them as keyDowns ??/
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Re: data from USB joystick

[-=>JB<=-]

I don't know but the developer sounds like they are
continuing to improve it from the info they provide
and might even add something if asked since they
have listed a number of things they have recently
added.

-=>JB<=-


On Sep 28, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Richmond wrote:

> On 09/28/2010 01:38 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:
>> On Mac I use USB Overdrive.
>> 
>> http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html
>> 
>> -=>JB<=-
>> 
>> 
> 
> Will that take signals from any USB mouse / trackball / joystick / 
> steering-wheel / foot-pedal
> and output them as keyDowns ??/
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Re: data from USB joystick

[René Micout]

And musical keyboard ?

Le 28 sept. 2010 à 16:27, Richmond a écrit :

> On 09/28/2010 01:38 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:
>> On Mac I use USB Overdrive.
>> 
>> http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html
>> 
>> -=>JB<=-
>> 
>> 
> 
> Will that take signals from any USB mouse / trackball / joystick / 
> steering-wheel / foot-pedal
> and output them as keyDowns ??/
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Re: data from USB joystick

[Richmond]

 On 09/28/2010 01:38 PM, -=>JB<=- wrote:

On Mac I use USB Overdrive.

http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html

-=>JB<=-




Will that take signals from any USB mouse / trackball / joystick / 
steering-wheel / foot-pedal

and output them as keyDowns ??/
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Re: data from USB joystick

[-=>JB<=-]

On Mac I use USB Overdrive.

http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html

-=>JB<=-



On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:20 AM, Richmond wrote:

> On 09/28/2010 09:44 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:
>> Would something that takes input from joystick and emulates it into
>> keystrokes be acceptable?
>> 
>> http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/I/JoyToKey/JoyToKey.htm
> 
> That looks jolly good: wonder if there are Mac and Linux equivalents?
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Re: data from USB joystick

[Richmond]

 On 09/28/2010 09:44 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:

Would something that takes input from joystick and emulates it into
keystrokes be acceptable?

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/I/JoyToKey/JoyToKey.htm


That looks jolly good: wonder if there are Mac and Linux equivalents?
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Re: data from USB joystick

[Andrew Kluthe]

Would something that takes input from joystick and emulates it into
keystrokes be acceptable?

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/I/JoyToKey/JoyToKey.htm
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/data-from-USB-joystick-tp2714272p2716671.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: data from USB joystick

[stephen barncard]

So that simple $20 USB joystick that Richmond mentioned is not the exact
solution that the original poster wanted?
That USB Service plus is great for labs but did you see the prices of that
stuff? And it probably has to be shipped from Germany.

On 26 September 2010 21:55, -=>JB<=-  wrote:

> If I understood him correctly he wants to plug any standard USD game
> device into his computer and control it with LiveCode.  For him to use
> the USB Service Plus gadget he might get it to work but then anyone
> using the game he develops would need to buy the gadget which is
> not going to happen so that idea does not seem suitable.
>
> I had mentioned I was working on a serial communications stack that
> was going to allow you to also control X10 and similar home control
> devices accessing a X10 USB or similar device with Livecode.  This
> appears to be feasible by opening the port with livecode and then
> using the right driver to access the USB device.
>
> The problem I had was after opening the serial port I was able to
> send a certain amount of text and then rev would not send anymore
> which makes me think they are using a memory buffer in their code
> that fills up.  So if that is what is happening even if you are able to
> control the USB device it will stop after the buffer is full which means
> you will need to close the port and open it again which empties the
> buffer allowing you to send the same amount of text again.  That is
> going to cause problems if you need to close the port and open it
> again during game play.
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:15 PM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > The USB Service Plus gadget would do all this and be fun to work with as
> > well.
> >
> > http://www.bkohg.com/serviceusbplus_e.html
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-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  
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Re: data from USB joystick

[-=>JB<=-]

If I understood him correctly he wants to plug any standard USD game
device into his computer and control it with LiveCode.  For him to use
the USB Service Plus gadget he might get it to work but then anyone
using the game he develops would need to buy the gadget which is
not going to happen so that idea does not seem suitable.

I had mentioned I was working on a serial communications stack that
was going to allow you to also control X10 and similar home control
devices accessing a X10 USB or similar device with Livecode.  This
appears to be feasible by opening the port with livecode and then
using the right driver to access the USB device.

The problem I had was after opening the serial port I was able to
send a certain amount of text and then rev would not send anymore
which makes me think they are using a memory buffer in their code
that fills up.  So if that is what is happening even if you are able to
control the USB device it will stop after the buffer is full which means
you will need to close the port and open it again which empties the
buffer allowing you to send the same amount of text again.  That is
going to cause problems if you need to close the port and open it
again during game play.

-=>JB<=-


On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:15 PM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:

> The USB Service Plus gadget would do all this and be fun to work with as 
> well.
> 
> http://www.bkohg.com/serviceusbplus_e.html
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Re: data from USB joystick

[DunbarX]

The USB Service Plus gadget would do all this and be fun to work with as 
well.

http://www.bkohg.com/serviceusbplus_e.html
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Re: data from USB joystick

[Richmond]

 On 09/26/2010 10:04 PM, stephen barncard wrote:

unless there's an extension mapping it to the keyboard routines. A
reasonable conclusion.It would be great someone made a joystick as easy
to read as barcode scanner.  It's ironic that the toughest to implement
interfaces were formerly the simplest. ( like the single - bit ports on the
Apple ][)

On 26 September 2010 13:57, Richmond  wrote:



 Cop a look at this:

http://www.legacyengineer.com/store.html

"Classic USB Joystick Controller"
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Re: data from USB joystick

[stephen barncard]

unless there's an extension mapping it to the keyboard routines. A
reasonable conclusion.It would be great someone made a joystick as easy
to read as barcode scanner.  It's ironic that the toughest to implement
interfaces were formerly the simplest. ( like the single - bit ports on the
Apple ][)

On 26 September 2010 13:57, Richmond  wrote:

>  On 09/26/2010 09:54 PM, stephen barncard wrote:
>
>> Richmond, many people have tried and failed to grok the USB stuff, and the
>> HID manager appears to not be that simple as keydown. It's not a keyboard,
>> it's a totally different API.
>>
>>
> OK; my mistake was precipitated by my plugging my Nostromo into
> my "new" G3 running Mac OS 10.4.11 and getting an "unknown Keyboard"
> signal.
>
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>


-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

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Re: data from USB joystick

[Richmond]

 On 09/26/2010 09:54 PM, stephen barncard wrote:

Richmond, many people have tried and failed to grok the USB stuff, and the
HID manager appears to not be that simple as keydown. It's not a keyboard,
it's a totally different API.



OK; my mistake was precipitated by my plugging my Nostromo into
my "new" G3 running Mac OS 10.4.11 and getting an "unknown Keyboard"
signal.
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Re: data from USB joystick

[stephen barncard]

Richmond, many people have tried and failed to grok the USB stuff, and the
HID manager appears to not be that simple as keydown. It's not a keyboard,
it's a totally different API.

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#samplecode/HID_Manager_Basics/Introduction/Intro.html

On 26 September 2010 12:25, Richmond Mathewson
wrote:

>
> My own inclinations would be to run round the corner and buy a crappy USB
> joystick and plug the
> thing in, and then set up some silly little stack that will pick up the
> signals from the USB stick
>
> [ they cannot be that other-worldly ]
>
> and see whether they can be interpreted as KeyDown, rawKeyDown type signals
> . . .
>
>
>
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

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Re: data from USB joystick

[Mark Wieder]

stephen-

Sunday, September 26, 2010, 9:57:22 AM, you wrote:

> It's all on the net. Your cheapest and easiest solution is to use a Keyspan
> USB to serial adapter and Rs-232 serial protocol.

I seem to have acquired two of these contraptions through general
packratting and have no use for them right now. I'd be happy to offer
these to anyone for the postage.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3915

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: data from USB joystick

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 26/09/2010 19:57PM, stephen barncard wrote:

It's all on the net. Your cheapest and easiest solution is to use a Keyspan
USB to serial adapter and Rs-232 serial protocol. Here's one hit from
searching google for "joystick rs232". Sooner or later, some soldering may
be required.

Interfacing Atari-style joysticks to PC parallel and serial
ports




I think the above is missing the point; presumably David has a USB 
joystick and a USB port
on his target computer; so no need to do "the down-and-dirty" with the 
soldering iron.


What he needs to do is ascertain is, for example, whether the USB 
joystick sends Unicode chars when
it is moved, rather like the chars for right-arrow and left-arrow on a 
keyboard, and whether
they are interpreted by the computer as mouseDown and mouseStillDown 
signals.


I have a Belkin Nostromo (silly gaming pad) which I use for 
RunRev/LiveCode programming:
now it comes with a set-up control panel where one can set all the keys, 
wheels and twiddly things
on it to do what one wants - having set up one's preferences 
RunRev/LiveCode can pick up

whatever I do on the Nostromo without any trouble at all.

However, I suspect that David is trying to be somewhat cleverer than me, 
insofar as he wants
to 'skip' the requirement of an intermediate, platform specific, set-up 
panel / driver-thingy.


My own inclinations would be to run round the corner and buy a crappy 
USB joystick and plug the
thing in, and then set up some silly little stack that will pick up the 
signals from the USB stick


[ they cannot be that other-worldly ]

and see whether they can be interpreted as KeyDown, rawKeyDown type 
signals . . .



On 26 September 2010 06:10, David Glasgowwrote:


Hello folks,

I really really want to make  a Rev  (Ooops) LiveCode app with a push pull
interface like on a mixing slider, or 'dive' and 'pull up' on a plain old
joystick.

I have raised questions about this a few times on the list over a number of
years, and got some helpful pointers.  However, having followed these into
the underpants of USB, I have discovered that is not a place I have the
ability to work.  So I give up.

Is there anyone on this list who could create a cross platform extension or
library thingy which would allow me to read the state(s) of an ordinary, off
the shelf USB joystick?  If so, what would the cost be?


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow

i-psych.co.uk


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Re: data from USB joystick

[stephen barncard]

It's all on the net. Your cheapest and easiest solution is to use a Keyspan
USB to serial adapter and Rs-232 serial protocol. Here's one hit from
searching google for "joystick rs232". Sooner or later, some soldering may
be required.

Interfacing Atari-style joysticks to PC parallel and serial
ports



On 26 September 2010 06:10, David Glasgow wrote:

> Hello folks,
>
> I really really want to make  a Rev  (Ooops) LiveCode app with a push pull
> interface like on a mixing slider, or 'dive' and 'pull up' on a plain old
> joystick.
>
> I have raised questions about this a few times on the list over a number of
> years, and got some helpful pointers.  However, having followed these into
> the underpants of USB, I have discovered that is not a place I have the
> ability to work.  So I give up.
>
> Is there anyone on this list who could create a cross platform extension or
> library thingy which would allow me to read the state(s) of an ordinary, off
> the shelf USB joystick?  If so, what would the cost be?
>
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> David Glasgow
>
> i-psych.co.uk
>
>
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-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

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