Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Bob Sneidar]

HELLO!!

Bob


On Nov 11, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Claudi Cornaz wrote:

>   local tId
>   put the long id of pObject into tId
>   if word 3 of tId is 0 then
>  # Due to an engine bug, some objects can have IDs of zero. For now, we 
> ignore this...
>  --breakpoint
>   end if

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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Claudi Cornaz]

Hallo,

Sorry for the delay but I have been quite busy.

Jacqueline,
I found the script it in the button "revIDE" of the revLibrary stack  
and it's called "addObject"


private command addObject pObject, pObeyDontSearch, @rList, pScriptsOnly
   if word 1 of the name of pObject is among the words of "card group  
field" and pObeyDontSearch and the dontSearch of pObject then

  return "dontSearch set on object"
   end if

   local tId
   put the long id of pObject into tId
   if word 3 of tId is 0 then
  # Due to an engine bug, some objects can have IDs of zero. For  
now, we ignore this...

  --breakpoint
   end if


...   ...

Bob, there are no intercepting handlers.

This happend with at least 2 totaly different stacks. mac 10.5.8  
livicode 4.5 build 1080 but it happened with a earlyer version aswell.


I will try to get a simplifyed stack which more or less 'reliably'  
exibits this fenomena, but I can't promise anything.

I will see if I got some time coming weekend to do this.

All the best,
   Claudi

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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[zryip theSlug]

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Claudi Cornaz  wrote:
> Hallo all,
>
> I have a big, and as yet, unsolvable  problem.
> I use quite some tmplt's (groups) I keep in a seperate stack and when I need
> one
> I copy this tmplt to the card or group where I need it. So far all works as
> expected.
>
> Now comes the problem: Very often one or more controls of this copyed tmplt
> or the copyed tmplt itself will get an ID of 0.
> This is more than a nuisance as I keep discovering more and more problems
> with controls with an ID of 0.
> The first problem is the long id the IDE/engine places  in the it variable.
> If there is a ID of 0 in it, it will be invalid.
> Which means if you do the following it will throw a error saying the control
> doesn't exist.
>
> on mouseUp
>   copy grp "myTmplt" of cd 1 of this stack to grp "myGrp" of cd 2 of this
> stack
>   set the name of it to "test"     -- it: group id 0 of group id 1012 of cd
> id 1002 of stack "myStack"
> end mouseUp
>
> I had to change a lot of code because of this. I couldn't be sure the long
> id in the it var was reliable,
> because it might contain a ID of 0.
> This problem can be solved as follows:
>
> on MouseUp
>   put the number of controls of grp "myGrp" of cd 2 of this stack + 1 into
> tCount
>   copy grp "myTmplt" of cd 1 of this stack to grp "myGrp" of cd 2 of this
> stack
>   set the name of control tCount of grp "myGrp" of cd 2 of this stack to
> "test"
> end mouseUp
>
> Now it doesn't matter if I copy a image/field or a group consisting of many
> controls,
> since tCount will point to the next layer within the destination, which will
> be the group in case a group get's copyed.
> (you can't use the last control of grp "myGrp" it will throw a error on
> compiling and anyway if you copy a grp
> the last control will point to the control with the highest layer within the
> copyed grp)
>
> Further if you use tmplt's which you copy, always and I mean always, use
> long names
> to point to a specific control, as you just can't trust the ID or the long
> ID. (a major rewrite of my code)
>
> Ok this is a nuisance, but there is at least a solution/workaround to it.
>
> Now I discovered a new problem with a control which has gotten the ill fated
> ID of 0.
> If it happens to be a field you can't get it's formattedWith/Height etc.
> I simply can't find a way to get at this, it always returns 0
>
> put the width of fld myLongNameFieldReference gives: 220
> put the value of yLongNameFieldReference gives: This is some text
> put the formattedWidth of fld myLongNameFieldReference gives: 0
>
> So the field exists (with a ID of 0) and it has text in it. But I just can't
> get the formattedWidth of it .
>
> I found in a rev lib stack a comment that the engine sometimes returns 0 as
> ID for controls and that they leave it at the moment.
> The problem is I now have a card with sometimes 10 or more controls with a
> ID of 0 which gives all kinds of problems.
>
> Does anyone know a trick or workaround to get the formattedWidth of my
> field?  Please.
> This is a complete stopper for me at the moment since I can't format my
> field and I use dozens of them which need to be
> formatted depending on there content.
>
>
> Hoping someone of you bright minds knows/finds something clever to solve my
> problem.
>
> Best wishes,
>   Claudi

Claudi,

Really odd.

The last ID is store in the stack and is incremented for each control
you add. For unicity you should not have two controls with the same
ID. That's why you can't set the ID of a stack to a lower number than
the actual ID. And the ID should be started at least to 1, probably
more for reserved usages, not 0

Could you precise:
- your system version
- your version of Livecode
- have you experienced this on several computers, always with the same
stack or with several stacks?


Regards,
-- 
-Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8)
http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Monte Goulding]

>> Setting the stack ID to a number below it's current ID is a risk and
>> you are right it's bad practice (I was just trying to work out how
>> you end up with an id of 0 and I still couldn't replicate it) but
>> going the other way is the only way we have to manage icon libraries.
> 
> The docs say you aren't supposed to be able to set a stack ID to anything 
> lower than its current one. I'm surprised you could set it to a negative 
> number, you aren't supposed to be able to do that either.

Ok, that's probably why I got the execution error with all but the negative 
numbers.
> 
> "A stack's ID is equal to the ID that will be assigned to the next object 
> created within that stack, so the stack ID is subject to change."
> 
> Maybe when you set it to zero, the engine pushed it back up again?

I never said I set it to 0. I was trying to because the original poster said 
they were getting 0 ids. Any number between 0 and the current stack id will 
cause an execution error. I was trying to replicate it but I couldn't. But I 
did find the negative number thing which is weird although probably not worth 
fixing considering you would have to be an idiot to set the stack id to a 
negative number and expect everything to work right. 

Cheers

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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[J. Landman Gay]

On 11/10/10 6:15 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:


Setting the stack ID to a number below it's current ID is a risk and
you are right it's bad practice (I was just trying to work out how
you end up with an id of 0 and I still couldn't replicate it) but
going the other way is the only way we have to manage icon libraries.


The docs say you aren't supposed to be able to set a stack ID to 
anything lower than its current one. I'm surprised you could set it to a 
negative number, you aren't supposed to be able to do that either.


"A stack's ID is equal to the ID that will be assigned to the next 
object created within that stack, so the stack ID is subject to change."


Maybe when you set it to zero, the engine pushed it back up again?

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Monte Goulding]

> It's my understanding that object ID's inside a stack are maintained by the 
> engine to ensure uniqueness. I would not mess with the ID's at all. I 
> remember back in Hypercard that was a big no-no as well. 

Well, true up to a point. The stack id is equal to the id of the next created 
control. It doesn't quite work that way in the IDE because the drag and drop 
from the tools palette creates and deletes a graphic.
> 
> About the only use of ID's that I can see would be if you were 
> programmatically renaming objects, and you wanted to reference the same 
> object after the rename with something that didn't change. I know that Trevor 
> uses the long id of a button to define the storage object for sqlYoga, 
> because someone might rename the button and break their own code. But 
> changing ID's is IMHO a bad practice. 

Setting the stack ID to a number below it's current ID is a risk and you are 
right it's bad practice (I was just trying to work out how you end up with an 
id of 0 and I still couldn't replicate it) but going the other way is the only 
way we have to manage icon libraries. For example, the IDE image library sets 
the templateStack's id to the highest id of all the other image libraries+1. 
This means that there won't be any image id duplicates (as long as nobody adds 
an image to an older library *bug*).

Cheers

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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Bob Sneidar]

It's my understanding that object ID's inside a stack are maintained by the 
engine to ensure uniqueness. I would not mess with the ID's at all. I remember 
back in Hypercard that was a big no-no as well. 

About the only use of ID's that I can see would be if you were programmatically 
renaming objects, and you wanted to reference the same object after the rename 
with something that didn't change. I know that Trevor uses the long id of a 
button to define the storage object for sqlYoga, because someone might rename 
the button and break their own code. But changing ID's is IMHO a bad practice. 

Bob


On Nov 10, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> 
>> Thanks for the background on that.
>> 
>> If you have a recipe for that please submit a bug report, but to be honest 
>> I've never seen anything like that in 12 years of working with this engine.
>> 
>> IDs normally begin at 1001 and increment from there for every object added 
>> to the stack.
> 
> I tried setting the stack id to 0 which should mean the id of the next 
> control to be added to the stack would be 0 and it causes an execution error. 
> Interestingly though it is possible to set the id to a negative number 
> although ids of new objects will always be greater than 0. I ended up with 
> two buttons with the same id which means you can't inspect the second one.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Monte Goulding]

> 
> Thanks for the background on that.
> 
> If you have a recipe for that please submit a bug report, but to be honest 
> I've never seen anything like that in 12 years of working with this engine.
> 
> IDs normally begin at 1001 and increment from there for every object added to 
> the stack.

I tried setting the stack id to 0 which should mean the id of the next control 
to be added to the stack would be 0 and it causes an execution error. 
Interestingly though it is possible to set the id to a negative number although 
ids of new objects will always be greater than 0. I ended up with two buttons 
with the same id which means you can't inspect the second one.

Cheers

Monte

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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Bob Sneidar]

Also I'd like to chip in here with another of my famous shots in the dark. If 
you have any handlers that intercept things like newCard or newButton and you 
don't pass the event in your handler, that could cause some problems as well, 
don't you think? Since no one else seems to be seeing this, I'd create a simple 
stack from scratch, and then try to reproduce the problem reliably. 

Bob


On Nov 10, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Claudi Cornaz wrote:
> 
>> Referencing a control with a ID 0 and using ID's to reference this
>> control might result in a error (control doesn't exist)
>> but not always. It depends on what you do.
>> Programaticly putting some text in a field with ID 0 (referencing the
>> control with the long id) didn't generate
>> a error but it also didn't put the text in the field, for instance.
>> Same with properties, no error, but also the propertie didn't  get set.
>> This makes using ID's not reliable.
>> 
>> So to be save, I don't use ID's anymore. It might go well a hundred
>> times but suddenly you might get an error.
>> Sometimes I get 8 out of 10 times a ID of 0 when copying a grp.
>> This also means the it variable  might hold a invalid reference to the
>> newly created grp after copying, so you can't use it reliably
>> and you have to use the work around to reference the newly created grp.
>> 
>> This problem with the ID of 0 has happened in different stacks and
>> with different kinds of grp's.
>> It drove me quite nuts for a while, as the IDE/engine gave sometimes a
>> error, but not always. This made it difficult to
>> find what's was going on.
> 
> Thanks for the background on that.
> 
> If you have a recipe for that please submit a bug report, but to be honest 
> I've never seen anything like that in 12 years of working with this engine.
> 
> IDs normally begin at 1001 and increment from there for every object added to 
> the stack.
> 
> Given how many people use the DataGrid, which copies groups many times during 
> its operation, I suspect this bug is not easy to reproduce or we'd be seeing 
> reports of DG failures.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> 
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Richard Gaskin]

Claudi Cornaz wrote:


Referencing a control with a ID 0 and using ID's to reference this
control might result in a error (control doesn't exist)
but not always. It depends on what you do.
Programaticly putting some text in a field with ID 0 (referencing the
control with the long id) didn't generate
a error but it also didn't put the text in the field, for instance.
Same with properties, no error, but also the propertie didn't  get set.
This makes using ID's not reliable.

So to be save, I don't use ID's anymore. It might go well a hundred
times but suddenly you might get an error.
Sometimes I get 8 out of 10 times a ID of 0 when copying a grp.
This also means the it variable  might hold a invalid reference to the
newly created grp after copying, so you can't use it reliably
and you have to use the work around to reference the newly created grp.

This problem with the ID of 0 has happened in different stacks and
with different kinds of grp's.
It drove me quite nuts for a while, as the IDE/engine gave sometimes a
error, but not always. This made it difficult to
find what's was going on.


Thanks for the background on that.

If you have a recipe for that please submit a bug report, but to be 
honest I've never seen anything like that in 12 years of working with 
this engine.


IDs normally begin at 1001 and increment from there for every object 
added to the stack.


Given how many people use the DataGrid, which copies groups many times 
during its operation, I suspect this bug is not easy to reproduce or 
we'd be seeing reports of DG failures.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[J. Landman Gay]

On 11/10/10 5:05 PM, Claudi Cornaz wrote:


The names of the grp's I copy have names like "textPiece" for instance
(this is the one I have trouble's with right now)
I have to say, this grp belongs to a grp called "textPieceTmplts". I
will change this name to see if that will make a difference.
Also like I wrote in my first mail, I found in a rev lib stack a comment
that the engine sometimes returns 0 as ID for controls
so apparently the 'wizards' in Edinburgh know about this.


I think you should submit a bug report, and a sample stack if you can 
make a reliable one. I've never seen a copied object with an ID 0, and I 
don't think it should happen. Do you remember which rev library had the 
comment in it? I'd like to see it.


You shouldn't have to rename your group, the name you are using is fine. 
Something else is causing the problem.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Claudi Cornaz]

Richard,

Referencing a control with a ID 0 and using ID's to reference this  
control might result in a error (control doesn't exist)

but not always. It depends on what you do.
Programaticly putting some text in a field with ID 0 (referencing the  
control with the long id) didn't generate

a error but it also didn't put the text in the field, for instance.
Same with properties, no error, but also the propertie didn't  get set.
This makes using ID's not reliable.

So to be save, I don't use ID's anymore. It might go well a hundred  
times but suddenly you might get an error.

Sometimes I get 8 out of 10 times a ID of 0 when copying a grp.
This also means the it variable  might hold a invalid reference to the  
newly created grp after copying, so you can't use it reliably

and you have to use the work around to reference the newly created grp.

This problem with the ID of 0 has happened in different stacks and  
with different kinds of grp's.
It drove me quite nuts for a while, as the IDE/engine gave sometimes a  
error, but not always. This made it difficult to

find what's was going on.

Jacqueline,
The names of the grp's I copy have names like "textPiece" for instance  
(this is the one I have trouble's with right now)
I have to say, this grp belongs to a grp called "textPieceTmplts". I  
will change this name to see if that will make a difference.
Also like I wrote in my first mail, I found in a rev lib stack a  
comment that the engine sometimes returns 0 as ID for controls

so apparently the 'wizards' in Edinburgh know about this.

Best wishes,
   Claudi


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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[J. Landman Gay]

On 11/10/10 8:42 AM, Claudi Cornaz wrote:

Hi,

After some more tinkering I fortunatly solved the formattedWidth problem.
Apparently you have to be on the card containing the field to get
the formattedWidth/Height etc, otherwise it will return 0.

This is mentioned in the docs, so I could have 'known' this.

I am glad I got this working so I can continue.

But still be warned and prepared to deal with the ID 0 problems you may
encounter.


ID 0 is the id for all template objects (the templateButton, the 
templateField, etc.) You shouldn't ever see that ID in controls you 
create yourself. Did you name your custom templates "templateButton" or 
"templateField"? If so, then the engine is returning the built-in 
template ID and not the one you created.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Richard Gaskin]

Claudi Cornaz wrote:


After some more tinkering I fortunatly solved the formattedWidth
problem.
Apparently you have to be on the card containing the field to get
the formattedWidth/Height etc, otherwise it will return 0.

This is mentioned in the docs, so I could have 'known' this.

I am glad I got this working so I can continue.

But still be warned and prepared to deal with the ID 0 problems you
may encounter.


What are the "ID 0" problems?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Help: Id's can be completly unreliable

[Claudi Cornaz]

Hi,

After some more tinkering I fortunatly solved the formattedWidth  
problem.

Apparently you have to be on the card containing the field to get
the formattedWidth/Height etc, otherwise it will return 0.

This is mentioned in the docs, so I could have 'known' this.

I am glad I got this working so I can continue.

But still be warned and prepared to deal with the ID 0 problems you  
may encounter.


Best wishes,
   Claudi

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Re: HELP Key ???

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/28/10 3:12 PM, Richmond wrote:


So . . . What about the rawKeyDown being 0 ?


I'm not exactly sure what you're after. The keycode for the key where 
the tilde is on my keyboard will be different from the keycode of the 
same place on another keyboard. Keycodes are assigned to the letter 
being represented, not to the position on the physical device.


So as someone said, if you are looking for a positional keycode, you'd 
have to ask your user to press the desired key. I suppose you could 
check the system language and make some educated guesses about the 
keyboard they probably are using, but I wouldn't rely on that. People 
can change the system language at will.


I didn't think there was a keycode zero; isn't that usually a null?

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HELP Key ???

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/28/10 3:14 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

HAH! You nailed it Jacque! My test email got bounced. What an odd
thing to reply with though! Administrivia?? Why not just say
"Administrative Command"?


It's an ancient boilerplate error message that's been around forever, 
and I think was written when "admininistrivia" had recently become a 
popular in-joke. The mailing list software is unix-based, and you know 
how those guys are.


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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

HAH! You nailed it Jacque! My test email got bounced. What an odd thing to 
reply with though! Administrivia?? Why not just say "Administrative Command"? 

Bob


On Oct 28, 2010, at 12:23 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 10/28/10 1:46 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> I see that the Administrivia contains as one payload it's own spam
>> mailer. It uses a long list of subject lines, and I think one of them
>> is "HELP". If this is the subject line you used, or if the subject
>> line contained that word, you may have triggered a false positive in
>> the list's AV filter.
>> 
> 
> That may not be what is going on. On many text-based lists like this one, the 
> word "HELP" is the standard keyword one sends to the adminstrative address in 
> order to receive an auto-mailing of the commands available when using the 
> list. It's a remnant of an older, text-based system, and two of the parrot 
> lists I read still use it. It is very common for users to accidentally send 
> the HELP command to the main list address instead of to the administrative 
> (server) address. When that happens, all sorts of things like password 
> requests, user account updates, search request terms, temporary stop 
> requests, and other non-topic emails show up in the main list, to the 
> annoyance of all the readers.
> 
> There is a fairly standard filter that looks for possible administrative 
> requests, one of which is HELP, to see if the email was sent to the wrong 
> address. If it finds any of the command words in certain locations, it 
> forwards the email to moderation so that a real person can determine whether 
> the email was intended as a server/account command or as a valid list post.
> 
> I know this is the case with the bird lists I read. I'm not sure about 
> Mailman (which is what this list uses) but it makes sense.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Richmond]

On 10/28/2010 11:12 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Only one thing to do. Test it. I just sent an email with the word "HELP" in the 
subject line and body. Let's see if it bounces.

Bob




Presumably this thing is positional; after all this heading is getting 
through, while simple HELP

did not.



On Oct 28, 2010, at 12:23 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


That may not be what is going on. On many text-based lists like this one, the word 
"HELP" is the standard keyword one sends to the adminstrative address in order 
to receive an auto-mailing of the commands available when using the list. It's a remnant 
of an older, text-based system, and two of the parrot lists I read still use it. It is 
very common for users to accidentally send the HELP command to the main list address 
instead of to the administrative (server) address. When that happens, all sorts of things 
like password requests, user account updates, search request terms, temporary stop 
requests, and other non-topic emails show up in the main list, to the annoyance of all 
the readers.

There is a fairly standard filter that looks for possible administrative 
requests, one of which is HELP, to see if the email was sent to the wrong 
address. If it finds any of the command words in certain locations, it forwards 
the email to moderation so that a real person can determine whether the email 
was intended as a server/account command or as a valid list post.

I know this is the case with the bird lists I read. I'm not sure about Mailman 
(which is what this list uses) but it makes sense.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

Only one thing to do. Test it. I just sent an email with the word "HELP" in the 
subject line and body. Let's see if it bounces. 

Bob


On Oct 28, 2010, at 12:23 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> That may not be what is going on. On many text-based lists like this one, the 
> word "HELP" is the standard keyword one sends to the adminstrative address in 
> order to receive an auto-mailing of the commands available when using the 
> list. It's a remnant of an older, text-based system, and two of the parrot 
> lists I read still use it. It is very common for users to accidentally send 
> the HELP command to the main list address instead of to the administrative 
> (server) address. When that happens, all sorts of things like password 
> requests, user account updates, search request terms, temporary stop 
> requests, and other non-topic emails show up in the main list, to the 
> annoyance of all the readers.
> 
> There is a fairly standard filter that looks for possible administrative 
> requests, one of which is HELP, to see if the email was sent to the wrong 
> address. If it finds any of the command words in certain locations, it 
> forwards the email to moderation so that a real person can determine whether 
> the email was intended as a server/account command or as a valid list post.
> 
> I know this is the case with the bird lists I read. I'm not sure about 
> Mailman (which is what this list uses) but it makes sense.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: HELP Key ???

[Richmond]

On 10/28/2010 11:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 10/28/10 2:46 PM, Richmond wrote:

Gottit, al last: 'administrivia' has to be
pronounced as 'administrivia' rather than
'adminis - trivia'; which made things sound
like a sort of mindless babbling game indulged
in by bored administrators . . . :)


:) It's a little of both I think. It's an invented word that's a 
contraction for "administrative trivia", and being somewhat clever, it 
caught on right away. It doesn't always refer to mailing lists or 
computer tasks, it can refer to what your boss does as well. Or maybe 
even what you do.




Who? . . . Me? . . .  :)

So . . . What about the rawKeyDown being 0 ?
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Re: HELP Key ???

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/28/10 2:46 PM, Richmond wrote:

Gottit, al last: 'administrivia' has to be
pronounced as 'administrivia' rather than
'adminis - trivia'; which made things sound
like a sort of mindless babbling game indulged
in by bored administrators . . . :)


:) It's a little of both I think. It's an invented word that's a 
contraction for "administrative trivia", and being somewhat clever, it 
caught on right away. It doesn't always refer to mailing lists or 
computer tasks, it can refer to what your boss does as well. Or maybe 
even what you do.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Richmond]

Gottit, al last: 'administrivia' has to be
pronounced as 'administrivia' rather than
'adminis - trivia'; which made things sound
like a sort of mindless babbling game indulged
in by bored administrators . . .  :)

On 10/28/2010 10:23 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 10/28/10 1:46 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I see that the Administrivia contains as one payload it's own spam
mailer. It uses a long list of subject lines, and I think one of them
is "HELP". If this is the subject line you used, or if the subject
line contained that word, you may have triggered a false positive in
the list's AV filter.



That may not be what is going on. On many text-based lists like this 
one, the word "HELP" is the standard keyword one sends to the 
adminstrative address in order to receive an auto-mailing of the 
commands available when using the list. It's a remnant of an older, 
text-based system, and two of the parrot lists I read still use it. It 
is very common for users to accidentally send the HELP command to the 
main list address instead of to the administrative (server) address. 
When that happens, all sorts of things like password requests, user 
account updates, search request terms, temporary stop requests, and 
other non-topic emails show up in the main list, to the annoyance of 
all the readers.


There is a fairly standard filter that looks for possible 
administrative requests, one of which is HELP, to see if the email was 
sent to the wrong address. If it finds any of the command words in 
certain locations, it forwards the email to moderation so that a real 
person can determine whether the email was intended as a 
server/account command or as a valid list post.


I know this is the case with the bird lists I read. I'm not sure about 
Mailman (which is what this list uses) but it makes sense.




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Re: HELP Key ???

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/28/10 1:46 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I see that the Administrivia contains as one payload it's own spam
mailer. It uses a long list of subject lines, and I think one of them
is "HELP". If this is the subject line you used, or if the subject
line contained that word, you may have triggered a false positive in
the list's AV filter.



That may not be what is going on. On many text-based lists like this 
one, the word "HELP" is the standard keyword one sends to the 
adminstrative address in order to receive an auto-mailing of the 
commands available when using the list. It's a remnant of an older, 
text-based system, and two of the parrot lists I read still use it. It 
is very common for users to accidentally send the HELP command to the 
main list address instead of to the administrative (server) address. 
When that happens, all sorts of things like password requests, user 
account updates, search request terms, temporary stop requests, and 
other non-topic emails show up in the main list, to the annoyance of all 
the readers.


There is a fairly standard filter that looks for possible administrative 
requests, one of which is HELP, to see if the email was sent to the 
wrong address. If it finds any of the command words in certain 
locations, it forwards the email to moderation so that a real person can 
determine whether the email was intended as a server/account command or 
as a valid list post.


I know this is the case with the bird lists I read. I'm not sure about 
Mailman (which is what this list uses) but it makes sense.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Richmond]

On 10/28/2010 09:46 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I see that the Administrivia contains as one payload it's own spam mailer. It uses a long 
list of subject lines, and I think one of them is "HELP". If this is the 
subject line you used, or if the subject line contained that word, you may have triggered 
a false positive in the list's AV filter.

Bob




Thanks.


On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Richmond wrote:


This is a repost of a message I just sent off entitled 'HELP' which was blocked 
with this
message:

"Your mail to 'use-revolution' with the subject

HELP

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

Message may contain administrivia "


Has anybody seen the word "administrivia" before . . . ? . . .  :)

--

he HELP key on a Mac keyboard gives a Keydown value of 6876298 ( Hex 68EC8A ), 
but
when I pop across to my Ubuntu box I cannot find a HELP key to save my life, 
let alone get
a Keydown from a lot of the 'stray' buttons.

So there we are with 'another' cross-platform problem . . .

Richmond.
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

I see that the Administrivia contains as one payload it's own spam mailer. It 
uses a long list of subject lines, and I think one of them is "HELP". If this 
is the subject line you used, or if the subject line contained that word, you 
may have triggered a false positive in the list's AV filter. 

Bob


On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Richmond wrote:

> This is a repost of a message I just sent off entitled 'HELP' which was 
> blocked with this
> message:
> 
> "Your mail to 'use-revolution' with the subject
> 
>HELP
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>Message may contain administrivia "
> 
> 
> Has anybody seen the word "administrivia" before . . . ? . . .  :)
> 
> --
> 
> he HELP key on a Mac keyboard gives a Keydown value of 6876298 ( Hex 68EC8A 
> ), but
> when I pop across to my Ubuntu box I cannot find a HELP key to save my life, 
> let alone get
> a Keydown from a lot of the 'stray' buttons.
> 
> So there we are with 'another' cross-platform problem . . .
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

And from another blog. Note the date tho':

> -Original Message-
> From: Gary E. Miller [
mailto:[EMAIL
 PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 1:08 PM
> To: Schmehl, Paul L
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] Administrivia: Testing 
> Emergency Virus Filter..
> 
> Funny, Apple OS X is UNIX and that does not seem to be an 
> issue to all the Mac faithfull.  Never heard them called 
> particularly geeky.  Not that OS X is without problems, but 
> it has a lot over any version of WinXX.
> 
Have you asked them when the last time that they updated was?  A remote
hole in Mac OS X was announced just last week (the realpath problem).
I'll bet most of them don't even know about it.


On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Richmond wrote:

> This is a repost of a message I just sent off entitled 'HELP' which was 
> blocked with this
> message:
> 
> "Your mail to 'use-revolution' with the subject
> 
>HELP
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>Message may contain administrivia "
> 
> 
> Has anybody seen the word "administrivia" before . . . ? . . .  :)
> 
> --
> 
> he HELP key on a Mac keyboard gives a Keydown value of 6876298 ( Hex 68EC8A 
> ), but
> when I pop across to my Ubuntu box I cannot find a HELP key to save my life, 
> let alone get
> a Keydown from a lot of the 'stray' buttons.
> 
> So there we are with 'another' cross-platform problem . . .
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

http://www.mail-archive.com/security-bas...@securityfocus.com/msg03257.html
On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Richmond wrote:

> This is a repost of a message I just sent off entitled 'HELP' which was 
> blocked with this
> message:
> 
> "Your mail to 'use-revolution' with the subject
> 
>HELP
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>Message may contain administrivia "
> 
> 
> Has anybody seen the word "administrivia" before . . . ? . . .  :)
> 
> --
> 
> he HELP key on a Mac keyboard gives a Keydown value of 6876298 ( Hex 68EC8A 
> ), but
> when I pop across to my Ubuntu box I cannot find a HELP key to save my life, 
> let alone get
> a Keydown from a lot of the 'stray' buttons.
> 
> So there we are with 'another' cross-platform problem . . .
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

http://www.korean-war.com/Archives/2002/04/msg00153.html
On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Richmond wrote:

> This is a repost of a message I just sent off entitled 'HELP' which was 
> blocked with this
> message:
> 
> "Your mail to 'use-revolution' with the subject
> 
>HELP
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>Message may contain administrivia "
> 
> 
> Has anybody seen the word "administrivia" before . . . ? . . .  :)
> 
> --
> 
> he HELP key on a Mac keyboard gives a Keydown value of 6876298 ( Hex 68EC8A 
> ), but
> when I pop across to my Ubuntu box I cannot find a HELP key to save my life, 
> let alone get
> a Keydown from a lot of the 'stray' buttons.
> 
> So there we are with 'another' cross-platform problem . . .
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: HELP Key ???

[Bob Sneidar]

The latest worm to make its way onto our discussion lists is
ww32.kle...@mm and it is quite sophisticated.

See 
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.kle...@mm.html

for full details.

On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Richmond wrote:

> This is a repost of a message I just sent off entitled 'HELP' which was 
> blocked with this
> message:
> 
> "Your mail to 'use-revolution' with the subject
> 
>HELP
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>Message may contain administrivia "
> 
> 
> Has anybody seen the word "administrivia" before . . . ? . . .  :)
> 
> --
> 
> he HELP key on a Mac keyboard gives a Keydown value of 6876298 ( Hex 68EC8A 
> ), but
> when I pop across to my Ubuntu box I cannot find a HELP key to save my life, 
> let alone get
> a Keydown from a lot of the 'stray' buttons.
> 
> So there we are with 'another' cross-platform problem . . .
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: HELP Key ???

[DunbarX]

All over the web dictionaries. It isn't pretty...
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Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

[Peter Brigham MD]

Beware of mouseenter. In my experience, when the mouse is moving fast  
mouseenter sometimes doesn't get sent (this ought to be labeled as a  
bug). Mousemove is more reliable, though it will get called  
repeatedly. Unless you are doing something very complex on mousemove,  
however, it won't slow anything down.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Ian McKnight wrote:


Do you know I never really thought about using either mouseenter or
mousemove :)

As I was thinking about various ways to solve my problem it just  
seemed
'natural' to do something when the mouse was within the button area  
and I
fixed on that. I will alter my code to use mouseEnter because I like  
the
simplicity of the behavior not requiring any code in the buttons but  
I have

learned a useful tip about mouseWithin and mouseMove.

Thanks again.



On 23 October 2010 19:00, Peter Brigham MD  wrote:


On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:41 AM, André Bisseret wrote:



Le 23 oct. 10 à 16:29, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi Andre

It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I  
missed the

significance of the last line!

Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin  
message in

each button - not a great price to pay.



Ian,

Just curious, why do you prefer mouseWithin to mouseEnter or  
mouseMove?
(with one of these, you should not have to "pay any price" ;-)),  
should

you?



I always use mousemove for this kind of thing, for that exact  
reason -- no
mousemove is sent unless the object itself has a mousemove handler,  
which is
cumbersome if you want some generic behavior when the mouse is  
within any

button, for instance.


André


And thank you for your very quick reply.



On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret  


wrote:

Bonjour Ian,


I just tried the following
- created:
- a stack
- a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
- another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
- grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

- a button "BtnBehavior"
- a field "fldTarget"

- put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
on mouseWithin
put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
end mouseWithin

Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
"btnBehavior" of this card.

Hoping that replicate your problem,
Well:
Does not work with mouseWithin

But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with  
mouseDown, with

mouseMove, with mouseEnter

Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on  
"mouseWithin"

in
the Dictionary:

Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target  
object'sscript,

no
mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a  
mouseWithinhandler in an

object that's further along the message path.

HTH

Best regards from Grenoble

André

Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :


Hi


I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then  
this

group
is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I  
have in

excess
of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the  
mouse

over
any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the
relevant
information for that day in a separate field. I have a  
mouseWithin

handler
to access the data.

When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual  
button all

works
as it should.

When I move the script to a separate button and set the  
behavior of my

original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the
behavior
location correctly.

There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.

This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior  
of the

first
of my buttons.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd  
"calendar" to

the
long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing  
happened.


set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp
"calendargrp"
of
cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector

button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"

which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.

I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler  
and

place
it
in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining  
code 300+
times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get  
behaviors to

work.


I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks.


--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===





-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig 



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Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

[Ian McKnight]

Do you know I never really thought about using either mouseenter or
mousemove :)

As I was thinking about various ways to solve my problem it just seemed
'natural' to do something when the mouse was within the button area and I
fixed on that. I will alter my code to use mouseEnter because I like the
simplicity of the behavior not requiring any code in the buttons but I have
learned a useful tip about mouseWithin and mouseMove.

Thanks again.



On 23 October 2010 19:00, Peter Brigham MD  wrote:

> On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:41 AM, André Bisseret wrote:
>
>
>> Le 23 oct. 10 à 16:29, Ian McKnight a écrit :
>>
>>
>>> Hi Andre
>>>
>>> It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I missed the
>>> significance of the last line!
>>>
>>> Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin message in
>>> each button - not a great price to pay.
>>>
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>> Just curious, why do you prefer mouseWithin to mouseEnter or mouseMove?
>> (with one of these, you should not have to "pay any price" ;-)), should
>> you?
>>
>
> I always use mousemove for this kind of thing, for that exact reason -- no
> mousemove is sent unless the object itself has a mousemove handler, which is
> cumbersome if you want some generic behavior when the mouse is within any
> button, for instance.
>
>
>  André
>>
>>  And thank you for your very quick reply.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Bonjour Ian,

 I just tried the following
 - created:
 - a stack
 - a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
 - another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
 - grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

 - a button "BtnBehavior"
 - a field "fldTarget"

 - put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
 on mouseWithin
 put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
 end mouseWithin

 Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
 "btnBehavior" of this card.

 Hoping that replicate your problem,
 Well:
 Does not work with mouseWithin

 But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with mouseDown, with
 mouseMove, with mouseEnter

 Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on "mouseWithin"
 in
 the Dictionary:

 Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target object'sscript,
 no
 mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a mouseWithinhandler in an
 object that's further along the message path.

 HTH

 Best regards from Grenoble

 André

 Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :


  Hi
>
> I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then this
> group
> is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I have in
> excess
> of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the mouse
> over
> any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the
> relevant
> information for that day in a separate field. I have a mouseWithin
> handler
> to access the data.
>
> When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual button all
> works
> as it should.
>
> When I move the script to a separate button and set the behavior of my
> original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the
> behavior
> location correctly.
>
> There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.
>
> This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior of the
> first
> of my buttons.
>
> set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd "calendar" to
> the
> long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"
>
> I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing happened.
>
> set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp
> "calendargrp"
> of
> cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"
>
> This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector
>
> button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"
>
> which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.
>
> I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler and
> place
> it
> in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining code 300+
> times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get behaviors to
> work.
>
>
> I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080
>
> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
>
> Ian McKnight
>
> iangmckni...@gmail.com
> ===
>

>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig 
>
>
>
> ___
> use-revolutio

Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

[Peter Brigham MD]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:41 AM, André Bisseret wrote:



Le 23 oct. 10 à 16:29, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi Andre

It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I missed  
the

significance of the last line!

Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin  
message in

each button - not a great price to pay.


Ian,

Just curious, why do you prefer mouseWithin to mouseEnter or  
mouseMove?
(with one of these, you should not have to "pay any price" ;-)),  
should you?


I always use mousemove for this kind of thing, for that exact reason  
-- no mousemove is sent unless the object itself has a mousemove  
handler, which is cumbersome if you want some generic behavior when  
the mouse is within any button, for instance.



André


And thank you for your very quick reply.


On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret  
 wrote:



Bonjour Ian,

I just tried the following
- created:
- a stack
- a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
- another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
- grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

- a button "BtnBehavior"
- a field "fldTarget"

- put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
on mouseWithin
put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
end mouseWithin

Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
"btnBehavior" of this card.

Hoping that replicate your problem,
Well:
Does not work with mouseWithin

But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with mouseDown,  
with

mouseMove, with mouseEnter

Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on  
"mouseWithin" in

the Dictionary:

Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target  
object'sscript, no
mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a mouseWithinhandler  
in an

object that's further along the message path.

HTH

Best regards from Grenoble

André

Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi

I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then  
this group
is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I  
have in

excess
of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the  
mouse over
any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the  
relevant
information for that day in a separate field. I have a  
mouseWithin handler

to access the data.

When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual  
button all

works
as it should.

When I move the script to a separate button and set the behavior  
of my
original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the  
behavior

location correctly.

There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.

This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior of  
the

first
of my buttons.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd  
"calendar" to

the
long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing happened.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp  
"calendargrp"

of
cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector

button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"

which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.

I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler  
and place

it
in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining  
code 300+
times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get  
behaviors to

work.


I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks.


--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===



-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

[André Bisseret]

Le 23 oct. 10 à 16:29, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi Andre

It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I missed  
the

significance of the last line!

Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin  
message in

each button - not a great price to pay.


Ian,

Just curious, why do you prefer mouseWithin to mouseEnter or mouseMove?
(with one of these, you should not have to "pay any price" ;-)),  
should you?


André


And thank you for your very quick reply.


On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret   
wrote:



Bonjour Ian,

I just tried the following
- created:
- a stack
- a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
- another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
- grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

- a button "BtnBehavior"
- a field "fldTarget"

- put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
on mouseWithin
put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
end mouseWithin

Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
"btnBehavior" of this card.

Hoping that replicate your problem,
Well:
Does not work with mouseWithin

But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with mouseDown,  
with

mouseMove, with mouseEnter

Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on  
"mouseWithin" in

the Dictionary:

Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target  
object'sscript, no
mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a mouseWithinhandler  
in an

object that's further along the message path.

HTH

Best regards from Grenoble

André

Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi

I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then  
this group
is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I have  
in

excess
of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the  
mouse over
any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the  
relevant
information for that day in a separate field. I have a mouseWithin  
handler

to access the data.

When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual button  
all

works
as it should.

When I move the script to a separate button and set the behavior  
of my
original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the  
behavior

location correctly.

There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.

This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior of  
the

first
of my buttons.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd  
"calendar" to

the
long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing happened.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp  
"calendargrp"

of
cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector

button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"

which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.

I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler and  
place

it
in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining code  
300+
times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get  
behaviors to

work.


I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks.


--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===
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--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===
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Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

[Ian McKnight]

Hi Andre

It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I missed the
significance of the last line!

Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin message in
each button - not a great price to pay.

And thank you for your very quick reply.


On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret  wrote:

> Bonjour Ian,
>
> I just tried the following
> - created:
> - a stack
> - a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
> - another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
> - grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"
>
> - a button "BtnBehavior"
> - a field "fldTarget"
>
> - put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
> on mouseWithin
> put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
> end mouseWithin
>
> Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
> "btnBehavior" of this card.
>
> Hoping that replicate your problem,
> Well:
> Does not work with mouseWithin
>
> But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with mouseDown, with
> mouseMove, with mouseEnter
>
> Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on "mouseWithin" in
> the Dictionary:
>
> Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target object'sscript, no
> mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a mouseWithinhandler in an
> object that's further along the message path.
>
> HTH
>
> Best regards from Grenoble
>
> André
>
> Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then this group
>> is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I have in
>> excess
>> of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the mouse over
>> any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the relevant
>> information for that day in a separate field. I have a mouseWithin handler
>> to access the data.
>>
>> When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual button all
>> works
>> as it should.
>>
>> When I move the script to a separate button and set the behavior of my
>> original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the behavior
>> location correctly.
>>
>> There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.
>>
>> This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior of the
>> first
>> of my buttons.
>>
>> set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd "calendar" to
>> the
>> long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"
>>
>> I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing happened.
>>
>> set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp "calendargrp"
>> of
>> cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"
>>
>> This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector
>>
>> button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"
>>
>> which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.
>>
>> I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler and place
>> it
>> in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining code 300+
>> times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get behaviors to
>> work.
>>
>>
>> I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080
>>
>> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Ian McKnight
>>
>> iangmckni...@gmail.com
>> ===
>> ___
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>> ---
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>> Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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-- 
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===
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Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

[André Bisseret]

Bonjour Ian,

I just tried the following
- created:
- a stack
- a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
- another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
- grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

- a button "BtnBehavior"
- a field "fldTarget"

- put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
on mouseWithin
put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
end mouseWithin

Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn  
"btnBehavior" of this card.


Hoping that replicate your problem,
Well:
Does not work with mouseWithin

But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with mouseDown, with  
mouseMove, with mouseEnter


Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on  
"mouseWithin" in the Dictionary:


Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target object'sscript,  
no mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a mouseWithinhandler  
in an object that's further along the message path.


HTH

Best regards from Grenoble

André

Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi

I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then this  
group
is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I have  
in excess
of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the mouse  
over
any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the  
relevant
information for that day in a separate field. I have a mouseWithin  
handler

to access the data.

When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual button  
all works

as it should.

When I move the script to a separate button and set the behavior of my
original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the  
behavior

location correctly.

There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.

This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior of  
the first

of my buttons.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd "calendar"  
to the

long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing happened.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp  
"calendargrp" of

cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector

button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"

which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.

I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler and  
place it
in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining code  
300+
times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get behaviors  
to work.



I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks.


--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Geoff Canyon Rev]

revNavigator hasn't been updated for several versions, so it's
entirely possible that the dev environment has changed since I wrote
it. Or I might just have done a bad job with it ;-) That said it still
works -- I don't do much work with Rev anymore, but when I do I
couldn't live without it.

While I'm thinking about it, I hereby declare revNavigator to be free
for anyone to use.

gc

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:40 PM, J. Landman Gay
 wrote:
> On 8/12/10 1:23 PM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the tip on revNavigator, just tried it out and seems to
>>> work most of the time but I did find a few instances of the changes I
>>> made in it not being reflected in the Application Browser.
>>
>> The Application Browser sometimes doesn't update until you click the
>> little round circular-arrows button at the bottom of its window. I
>> haven't found what the recipe is for when it updates or not -- this is
>> not just when using revNavigator -- but if something isn't the way I
>> expect it to be in the A.B. I always click the refresh button before
>> getting worried.
>
> It probably relies on certain system messages being sent. If a plugin
> doesn't pass those messages then the app browser won't know anything is
> different and won't update.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/12/10 1:23 PM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:

On Aug 12, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:


Thanks for the tip on revNavigator, just tried it out and seems to
work most of the time but I did find a few instances of the changes I
made in it not being reflected in the Application Browser.


The Application Browser sometimes doesn't update until you click the
little round circular-arrows button at the bottom of its window. I
haven't found what the recipe is for when it updates or not -- this is
not just when using revNavigator -- but if something isn't the way I
expect it to be in the A.B. I always click the refresh button before
getting worried.


It probably relies on certain system messages being sent. If a plugin 
doesn't pass those messages then the app browser won't know anything is 
different and won't update.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Peter Brigham MD]

On Aug 12, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Thanks for the tip on revNavigator, just tried it out and seems to  
work most of the time but I did find a few instances of the changes  
I made in it not being reflected in the Application Browser.


The Application Browser sometimes doesn't update until you click the  
little round circular-arrows button at the bottom of its window. I  
haven't found what the recipe is for when it updates or not -- this is  
not just when using revNavigator -- but if something isn't the way I  
expect it to be in the A.B. I always click the refresh button before  
getting worried.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[stephen barncard]

The app browser must be refreshed sometimes to see the changes. There's a
tiny icon at the bottom right of the objects list.

On 12 August 2010 08:28, Peter Haworth  wrote:

> I will put in an enhancement request and start my campaign for votes!
>
> Can someone point me to how to do this in tRev?  I just got tRev and still
> finding my way around it.
>
> Thanks for the tip on revNavigator, just tried it out and seems to work
> most of the time but I did find a few instances of the changes I made in it
> not being reflected in the Application Browser.
>
> It's great that these 3rd-part tools and plugins are available but I'd
> still prefer to see it as aprt of the Rev IDE.
>
> Pete Haworth
>
>
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-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Peter Haworth]

I will put in an enhancement request and start my campaign for votes!

Can someone point me to how to do this in tRev?  I just got tRev and  
still finding my way around it.


Thanks for the tip on revNavigator, just tried it out and seems to  
work most of the time but I did find a few instances of the changes I  
made in it not being reflected in the Application Browser.


It's great that these 3rd-part tools and plugins are available but I'd  
still prefer to see it as aprt of the Rev IDE.


Pete Haworth

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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Chipp Walters]

altGroupMgr lets you share and unshare groups from one card to another to
another. Here's a quick way to get it.

STEP 1 PUT IN MSG BOX AND HIT ENTER:
go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altGroupMgr.rev";

STEP 2 PUT IN MSG BOX AND HIT ENTER:
save stack "altGroupMgr" as
(revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath()&"/altGroupMgr.rev")

And even better, altLayerTools lets you do exactly what you need to do
w/regard to relayering everything, including in and out of groups:

STEP 1 PUT IN MSG BOX AND HIT ENTER:
go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altLayerTools.rev";

STEP 2 PUT IN MSG BOX AND HIT ENTER:
save stack "altLayerTools" as
(revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath()&"/altLayerTools.rev")

Once these are stored in your plugins folder, you can then access them
directly from the Plugins menu under the Development menu in the revMenubar.
You may have to quit and restart Rev to see them.

And of course, they all work fine in altPluginToolbar.

HTH,

Chipp
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Peter Brigham MD]

On Aug 11, 2010, at 2:34 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:


Andre, Pete-

Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:16:27 AM, you wrote:


Pete,



That is a really useful feature request. Bugzilla it and we'll vote!


("I would love to see the ability to drag/drop controls into or out of  
a group in the Application Browser window.  Sometimes ungrouping,  
select/deselect control, group can be really error prone if nested  
groups/hidden fields are involved.")



tRev does this already.


... as does revNavigator (plugin, should be included with the IDE).

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Peter Brigham MD]

On Aug 10, 2010, at 11:13 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 8/10/10 8:47 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

:-O x 1

Is it that simple?!!? :-O


*GASP*

I can code a whole web server in Rev but could not do it! :-D

Now, for your amusement, I will tell you what I was doing. I kept a  
"Stack"

(the datastructure not the file format) with all the long ids of the
controls in a group. If I needed to add one control to a group. I'd  
ungroup
them, then, assemble a string with all the long ids plus the new  
control and

group them again.

I knew it was supposed to be easier than that...


You got a little confused is all. You're supposed to let the  
*engine* keep the list, not you. :)


But here's what really happened, and you shouldn't blame yourself. I  
saw your request but there was nothing I could do until I finished  
my time warp stack a few years from now. Then I went back to the  
days of MetaCard and told Dr Raney that there would be this crazy  
Brazillian guy who was going to need to put controls in groups.  
Raney agreed to add it to the engine, though he did mention that it  
was a bit of a stretch. Maybe he just wanted to get rid of me.  
Anyway, fast forward and here we are in a different alternate  
timeline, but the changeover happened so fast you lagged a bit  
before you could snap back to us.


It's really simple when you know the story.


see:
http://xkcd.com/338/

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Bob Sneidar]

Look I keep spilling my coffee into these temporal rifts that time travel 
external opens up next to my desk. Do you have any idea how hot coffee coming 
through a temporal rift could alter time for all of us? And why MY desk??

Bob


On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:40 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/11/10 10:52 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>> 
>> I think that time travel external of yours would make a nice RevSelect
>> add-on. I want to get it in my 2008 MegaBundle please.
> 
> How do you know you didn't?
> 
> :)
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/11/10 10:52 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:


I think that time travel external of yours would make a nice RevSelect
add-on. I want to get it in my 2008 MegaBundle please.


How do you know you didn't?

:)

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Mark Wieder]

Andre, Pete-

Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:16:27 AM, you wrote:

> Pete,

> That is a really useful feature request. Bugzilla it and we'll vote!

tRev does this already.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Andre Garzia]

Pete,

That is a really useful feature request. Bugzilla it and we'll vote!

Andre

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

> I would love to see the ability to drag/drop controls into or out of a
> group in the Application Browser window.  Sometimes ungrouping,
> select/deselect control, group can be really error prone if nested
> groups/hidden fields are involved.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2010, at 8:12 AM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.comwrote:
>
>  Message: 20
>> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:10:09 -0500
>> From: "J. Landman Gay" 
>> Subject: Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a
>>group programatically?
>> To: How to use Revolution 
>> Message-ID: <4c61f871.9020...@hyperactivesw.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/10 8:04 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> Trying not to reinvent the wheel here. I am working with some runtime
>>> group
>>> creations but I like to be able to add controls to an existing group.
>>> Checked the docs and did not found anything like that. Did anyone here
>>> created such command?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> Andre "groups inside groups inside groups inside..." Garzia
>>>
>>>
>> Use: create  in grp . For example:
>>  create btn "newBtn" in group "groupTwo"
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Peter Haworth]

I would love to see the ability to drag/drop controls into or out of a  
group in the Application Browser window.  Sometimes ungrouping, select/ 
deselect control, group can be really error prone if nested groups/ 
hidden fields are involved.


Pete

On Aug 11, 2010, at 8:12 AM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.com  
wrote:



Message: 20
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:10:09 -0500
From: "J. Landman Gay" 
Subject: Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a
group programatically?
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <4c61f871.9020...@hyperactivesw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 8/10/10 8:04 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Folks,

Trying not to reinvent the wheel here. I am working with some  
runtime group

creations but I like to be able to add controls to an existing group.
Checked the docs and did not found anything like that. Did anyone  
here

created such command?

Thanks in advance
Andre "groups inside groups inside groups inside..." Garzia



Use: create  in grp . For example:
  create btn "newBtn" in group "groupTwo"

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Andre Garzia]

You got a little confused is all. You're supposed to let the *engine* keep
the list, not you. :)

>
> But here's what really happened, and you shouldn't blame yourself. I saw
> your request but there was nothing I could do until I finished my time warp
> stack a few years from now. Then I went back to the days of MetaCard and
> told Dr Raney that there would be this crazy Brazillian guy who was going to
> need to put controls in groups. Raney agreed to add it to the engine, though
> he did mention that it was a bit of a stretch. Maybe he just wanted to get
> rid of me. Anyway, fast forward and here we are in a different alternate
> timeline, but the changeover happened so fast you lagged a bit before you
> could snap back to us.
>
> It's really simple when you know the story.


Jacque,

I think that time travel external of yours would make a nice RevSelect
add-on. I want to get it in my 2008 MegaBundle please.

:-D




>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Bob Sneidar]

So THAT'S why I spilled my coffee!!!

Bob


On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:13 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> You got a little confused is all. You're supposed to let the *engine* keep 
> the list, not you. :)
> 
> But here's what really happened, and you shouldn't blame yourself. I saw your 
> request but there was nothing I could do until I finished my time warp stack 
> a few years from now. Then I went back to the days of MetaCard and told Dr 
> Raney that there would be this crazy Brazillian guy who was going to need to 
> put controls in groups. Raney agreed to add it to the engine, though he did 
> mention that it was a bit of a stretch. Maybe he just wanted to get rid of 
> me. Anyway, fast forward and here we are in a different alternate timeline, 
> but the changeover happened so fast you lagged a bit before you could snap 
> back to us.
> 
> It's really simple when you know the story.

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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/10/10 8:47 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

:-O x 1

Is it that simple?!!? :-O


*GASP*

I can code a whole web server in Rev but could not do it! :-D

Now, for your amusement, I will tell you what I was doing. I kept a "Stack"
(the datastructure not the file format) with all the long ids of the
controls in a group. If I needed to add one control to a group. I'd ungroup
them, then, assemble a string with all the long ids plus the new control and
group them again.

I knew it was supposed to be easier than that...


You got a little confused is all. You're supposed to let the *engine* 
keep the list, not you. :)


But here's what really happened, and you shouldn't blame yourself. I saw 
your request but there was nothing I could do until I finished my time 
warp stack a few years from now. Then I went back to the days of 
MetaCard and told Dr Raney that there would be this crazy Brazillian guy 
who was going to need to put controls in groups. Raney agreed to add it 
to the engine, though he did mention that it was a bit of a stretch. 
Maybe he just wanted to get rid of me. Anyway, fast forward and here we 
are in a different alternate timeline, but the changeover happened so 
fast you lagged a bit before you could snap back to us.


It's really simple when you know the story.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[Andre Garzia]

:-O x 1

Is it that simple?!!? :-O


*GASP*

I can code a whole web server in Rev but could not do it! :-D

Now, for your amusement, I will tell you what I was doing. I kept a "Stack"
(the datastructure not the file format) with all the long ids of the
controls in a group. If I needed to add one control to a group. I'd ungroup
them, then, assemble a string with all the long ids plus the new control and
group them again.

I knew it was supposed to be easier than that...

Thanks Jacque, you are a life saver, as always!

:D

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, J. Landman Gay
wrote:

> On 8/10/10 8:04 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Trying not to reinvent the wheel here. I am working with some runtime
>> group
>> creations but I like to be able to add controls to an existing group.
>> Checked the docs and did not found anything like that. Did anyone here
>> created such command?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Andre "groups inside groups inside groups inside..." Garzia
>>
>>
> Use: create  in grp . For example:
>  create btn "newBtn" in group "groupTwo"
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP] anyone have a simple handler to add a control to a group programatically?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/10/10 8:04 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Folks,

Trying not to reinvent the wheel here. I am working with some runtime group
creations but I like to be able to add controls to an existing group.
Checked the docs and did not found anything like that. Did anyone here
created such command?

Thanks in advance
Andre "groups inside groups inside groups inside..." Garzia



Use: create  in grp . For example:
  create btn "newBtn" in group "groupTwo"

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [HELP!] Rev Externals: running a loop without disrupting the stack or inter thread communication

[Shao Sean]

Hopefully they get back on track with updating the desktop offering..

Actually the external is all Carbon.. I have played with a couple  
other single use externals that used Cocoa from Carbon..

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Re: [HELP!] Rev Externals: running a loop without disrupting the stack or inter thread communication

[Andre Garzia]

Yes it did but that still needs to materialize! Good to see you here Shao!

By the way, your external is a cocoa external? Are you calling cocoa stuff
from carbon?

Cheers
andre


On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Shao Sean  wrote:

> Be nice once Rev gets back into the swing of updating their desktop
> offering and the external interface.. The sample they released at a Rev
> conference looks nice and has a sample of spawning a thread and returning
> back to Rev..
>
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Re: [HELP!] Rev Externals: running a loop without disrupting the stack or inter thread communication

[Shao Sean]

Be nice once Rev gets back into the swing of updating their desktop  
offering and the external interface.. The sample they released at a  
Rev conference looks nice and has a sample of spawning a thread and  
returning back to Rev..

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Re: [HELP!] Rev Externals: running a loop without disrupting the stack or inter thread communication

[Andre Garzia]

>
> > Second question and this probably shows my lack of deep C and Rev
> Externals
> > knowledge is, how can we start some "eternal" looping code in the
> external.
> > If you think about the question above, it is clear that something in the
> > main thread needs to be tied to the other end of the pipe or message
> queue.
> > This other piece of code might be blocked with select() or poll() waiting
> > for something to happen, now, if I create an externalCommand like
> > "webserver_initloop" that starts this loop, wouldn't it block the engine
> if
> > the function never returns? If this is confusing let me summarize: How
> can
> > some code on the external keep processing while returning the control to
> rev
> > at the same time.
>
> I've done that in an external by writing a complete event-handler loop
> as if the external were an application. You can then write your own
> event types and catch them in the event loop. It's weird, but it does
> the trick.
>
>
Mark,

But how to you start your event loop? If you start it by calling an
externalcommand from rev, does it block rev?

Thanks for the answer, this will really help me since there's only a single
event!

:D



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Re: [HELP!] Rev Externals: running a loop without disrupting the stack or inter thread communication

[Mark Wieder]

Andre-

Friday, July 23, 2010, 12:17:47 PM, you wrote:

> Second question and this probably shows my lack of deep C and Rev Externals
> knowledge is, how can we start some "eternal" looping code in the external.
> If you think about the question above, it is clear that something in the
> main thread needs to be tied to the other end of the pipe or message queue.
> This other piece of code might be blocked with select() or poll() waiting
> for something to happen, now, if I create an externalCommand like
> "webserver_initloop" that starts this loop, wouldn't it block the engine if
> the function never returns? If this is confusing let me summarize: How can
> some code on the external keep processing while returning the control to rev
> at the same time.

I've done that in an external by writing a complete event-handler loop
as if the external were an application. You can then write your own
event types and catch them in the event loop. It's weird, but it does
the trick.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Help with drill-down script

[Ken Ray]

> Anyway, there's one feature: the first card is an
> index of all the cards in the stack. In HC, all
> you need to do is start typing and as you add
> letters, the selected line changes to reflect
> what you've typed. When you get to what you want,
> you hit return and that takes you to the
> respective card.
> 
> Anyway, it's not working in Rev.

One thing to remember when coming from HC is that in Rev you have true list
fields, so you don't need to "fake" it with selecting a chunk of text in a
locked field.

As Jacque posted, all you need to do is (1) make your index field into a
list field by setting its listBehavior to "true", (2) make sure the
'traversalOn' of the list field is "true" (otherwise you can't get the
keystroke), and (3) use a script like Jacque provided to grab the user's
keystroke with the 'keydown"  handler.

To activate what is currently highlighted, you can trap for the
"returnInField" and  "enterInField" messages, grab the currently highlited
line and then do what you want:

on returnInField
  put the hilitedText of me into tItemSelected
  -- Now do something with it (tItemSelected will
  -- contain the text of the line that has the highlight)
end returnInField


> Thanks for reading this far. And since you did, I
> can't resist mentioning some of the features of
> this stack:
> 1) Smart synchronization: if the copy at the
> office gets a new email address and the same
> person at home gets a new cell phone number, both
> are kept and the card is flagged and put in a
> list. You can deal with it later, like when you
> next go to that card which shows the dates of
> both new entries, or go through the list if you
> want
> 2) Parsing of clipboard data, from v-cards, email
> signatures and the like, when making new entries.
> 3) A "Business" checkbox which then alphabetizes
> business names phone-book style, ignoring and
> initial "The" etc.
> 4) Auto-capitalization; you don't have to hit the
> shift key when entering names. It's smart, knows
> about "de" and "von" etc.
> 5) One-click or keystroke phone dialing, via a
> modem, Skype out, or Skype-to-Skype (if there's a
> Skype name in the Notes field).
> 6) Envelope printing of 4 different  custom styles (size, return address)
> 7) Sifting to create subsets (Christmas card
> lists, European contacts, email addresses, etc.)
> for export in CSV or tab-delimited format
> 8) Smart printing of Filofax-style pages (no
> entry broken over a page; print one side, turn
> the stack over and print again, all comes out in
> proper order)
> 9) Ability to change the spelling or
> capitalization of a name, then automatically
> moved to where it belongs as needed, and have the
> corresponding Yellow or White pages version
> auto-updated.
> 10) Hidden "Filed as" field to override the
> default alphabetization, useful for names like
> "van Beethoven" - filed under v or b?
> 11) URL launching (grabs the first or selected
> email or web address) and file/app launching such
> as Word templates,  with the appropriate info
> (name and address) in the clipboard
> 12) Unlimited delete and restore of cards (until you quit).
> 13) Name conflict resolution: If you have a John
> Smith entry, and make a new John Smith card, you
> get an alert that he's there already. You can
> delete the new one, the old one, or keep both
> 14) A database of national and international area
> codes so if you have an unknown phone number you
> can see where it's probably located
> 15) And of course it relies on HC/Rev's brilliant
> "Find" so you can for example type a first name
> and a state abbreviation or city name to find
> someone whose last name you don't remember, but
> you know where they live
> 16) Customizable abbreviations expanded on
> address data entry: ny expands to New York, NY
> and de expands to Germany, but only if followed
> by a space (or nothing) and must be the first
> characters of the last line in the address field.
> 17) Phone numbers corrected to be in a standard
> form (dots & parentheses replaced by dashes). US
> numbers get 1- in front, other countries get
> their country code - you can use the
> abbreviations used in the Address field such as
> de for Germany to enter the proper country code
> so you don't have to remember it.
> There's more but I'll stop now...

Sounds great!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



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Re: Help with drill-down script

[Peter Brigham MD]

Just a cursory scan through your handler, without an exhaustive  
parsing of the logic...


On Jun 21, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Emmett Gray wrote:

Sorry for the long post. I've now got the last of my currently-in- 
use HC stacks running in Rev, so I'm finally retiring HC/ 
Sheepshaver. This last stack was huge, a labor of love for 20 years.  
It's an address book whose feature set has not been matched by a  
commercial application.


Anyway, there's one feature: the first card is an index of all the  
cards in the stack. In HC, all you need to do is start typing and as  
you add letters, the selected line changes to reflect what you've  
typed. When you get to what you want, you hit return and that takes  
you to the respective card.


Anyway, it's not working in Rev. What happens is, it selects the  
first line with the first letter you type, but stalls there. Then,  
if you hit return, it does nothing, just sits there. And if you wait  
and start over, it doesn't respond. to that either, the original  
selection remains. You have to clear that selection to get it to  
start over.


I don' have any idea what to do.

The relevant field properties in Rev are shared text, lock text,  
vertical scroll bar, list behavior.


Here's the HC script:


... snip ...

   if the visible of the message is false then -- so it's  
available when needed


... snip ...

if you mean the message box, the syntax you are using doesn't work in  
Rev, generates an error


Thanks for reading this far. And since you did, I can't resist  
mentioning some of the features of this stack:
1) Smart synchronization: if the copy at the office gets a new email  
address and the same person at home gets a new cell phone number,  
both are kept and the card is flagged and put in a list. You can  
deal with it later, like when you next go to that card which shows  
the dates of both new entries, or go through the list if you want
2) Parsing of clipboard data, from v-cards, email signatures and the  
like, when making new entries.
3) A "Business" checkbox which then alphabetizes business names  
phone-book style, ignoring and initial "The" etc.
4) Auto-capitalization; you don't have to hit the shift key when  
entering names. It's smart, knows about "de" and "von" etc.
5) One-click or keystroke phone dialing, via a modem, Skype out, or  
Skype-to-Skype (if there's a Skype name in the Notes field).
6) Envelope printing of 4 different  custom styles (size, return  
address)
7) Sifting to create subsets (Christmas card lists, European  
contacts, email addresses, etc.) for export in CSV or tab-delimited  
format
8) Smart printing of Filofax-style pages (no entry broken over a  
page; print one side, turn the stack over and print again, all comes  
out in proper order)
9) Ability to change the spelling or capitalization of a name, then  
automatically moved to where it belongs as needed, and have the  
corresponding Yellow or White pages version auto-updated.
10) Hidden "Filed as" field to override the default alphabetization,  
useful for names like "van Beethoven" - filed under v or b?
11) URL launching (grabs the first or selected email or web address)  
and file/app launching such as Word templates,  with the appropriate  
info (name and address) in the clipboard

12) Unlimited delete and restore of cards (until you quit).
13) Name conflict resolution: If you have a John Smith entry, and  
make a new John Smith card, you get an alert that he's there  
already. You can delete the new one, the old one, or keep both
14) A database of national and international area codes so if you  
have an unknown phone number you can see where it's probably located
15) And of course it relies on HC/Rev's brilliant "Find" so you can  
for example type a first name and a state abbreviation or city name  
to find someone whose last name you don't remember, but you know  
where they live
16) Customizable abbreviations expanded on address data entry: ny  
expands to New York, NY and de expands to Germany, but only if  
followed by a space (or nothing) and must be the first characters of  
the last line in the address field.
17) Phone numbers corrected to be in a standard form (dots &  
parentheses replaced by dashes). US numbers get 1- in front, other  
countries get their country code - you can use the abbreviations  
used in the Address field such as de for Germany to enter the proper  
country code so you don't have to remember it.

There's more but I'll stop now...


Sounds like a handy tool...

BTW, how do you do the skype dialing? I'm interested in that.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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Re: Help with drill-down script

[J. Landman Gay]

Emmett Gray wrote:

Anyway, there's one feature: the first card is an index of all the cards 
in the stack. In HC, all you need to do is start typing and as you add 
letters, the selected line changes to reflect what you've typed. When 
you get to what you want, you hit return and that takes you to the 
respective card.


I didn't read through your whole script, but here is a skeleton outline 
of one way to handle the behavior, you can adjust it for whatever else 
you need to do:



local lUserKeys, lOldTicks

on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
  if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) is among the 
items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys

  then pass keyDown
  if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys -- adjust 
time here

  put whichKey after lUserKeys
  put return & fld activeFld & return into tListText
  get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
  if it > 0 then set the hilitedline of fld activeFld to it
  put the ticks into lOldTicks
end keyDown

Note the user of a local script variable outside the handler 
declaration, rather than a global.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with bg graphic

[Emmett Gray]

Ahhh Thanks everyone who helped. Little by little, Rev secrets 
are revealed.


At 12:00 PM -0500 6/11/10, Klaus wrote:

 > I tried this. What is happening now is that the image ends up 
covering up and hiding all the other objects in the background. 
Sending to back doesn't change this. I don't get it yet, sorry to 
say.



 Thursday, June 10, 2010, 9:43:42 AM, you wrote:


 up when I try to bring it in as "new control" - like it ends up only
 on the current card.


 Easiest way to do this is from the menubar:
 Select the background group
 Click Edit group (starts the edit process)
 Import as control (imports the image into the background)
 Click Edit group (ends the edit process)
 --
 -Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


Did you resize the image?
Sounds like the image resizes to its orginal dimensions after 
setting the filename or importing it (again).


In the "Inspector" palette -> "Size & position" check "Lock size and 
position" (lockloc) after you set the correct size of that image 
object.

That should fix it, if my presumption is correct


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Re: Help with bg graphic

[Mark Wieder]

Emmett-

Thursday, June 10, 2010, 9:43:42 AM, you wrote:

> up when I try to bring it in as "new control" - like it ends up only
> on the current card.

Easiest way to do this is from the menubar:

Select the background group
Click Edit group (starts the edit process)
Import as control (imports the image into the background)
Click Edit group (ends the edit process)

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Help with pref file

[charles61]

Saraha,

Your suggestion worked! I just compile my app. I opened it and complete the 
pref file and then quit my app and relaunch it. The pref file inserted the name 
of the school in my report! Thanks!

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Apr 26, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Sarah Reichelt-2 [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> > I set up my pref file to be a substack of my app. My app is launched using 
> > a 
> > Splash screen. The user clicks on the Preference in the menu and then 
> > enters 
> > the name of the school for the report in the Prefs substack. When the 
> > Preference substack is closed, the name of the school appears throughout 
> > the 
> > report at the top of the card. 
> > 
> > Here is my problem: When I added a name of the school in the preference 
> > pane 
> > and closed it the name was correctly inserted in the report. When I quit 
> > the 
> > program and restart it the name of the school is not in the report but it 
> > still appears in the Preference substack. So the name of the school is 
> > saved 
> > in Preference substack but it is not being saved in the report?  I am 
> > supposed to conduct a test of my program today in a school. Can anyone give 
> > me a "quick fix" for this problem?
> 
> 
> Charles, the pref file gets saved and it stores the data. The other 
> stacks in the app do not get saved I presume, so any changes to them 
> are only temporary. When your app starts, say in a startup handler or 
> in a preOpenStack handler, read the settings from your prefs file and 
> apply them again, as if someone had just entered the data into the 
> prefs stack. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Sarah 
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Re: Help with pref file

[charles61]

Sarah,

Thanks for this pointer! I have wrote some code in a preOpenStack to read the 
settings into my report. I have not made a compile another app yet. I am still 
correcting some things. I will let you know it works out. 

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Apr 26, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Sarah Reichelt-2 [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> > I set up my pref file to be a substack of my app. My app is launched using 
> > a 
> > Splash screen. The user clicks on the Preference in the menu and then 
> > enters 
> > the name of the school for the report in the Prefs substack. When the 
> > Preference substack is closed, the name of the school appears throughout 
> > the 
> > report at the top of the card. 
> > 
> > Here is my problem: When I added a name of the school in the preference 
> > pane 
> > and closed it the name was correctly inserted in the report. When I quit 
> > the 
> > program and restart it the name of the school is not in the report but it 
> > still appears in the Preference substack. So the name of the school is 
> > saved 
> > in Preference substack but it is not being saved in the report?  I am 
> > supposed to conduct a test of my program today in a school. Can anyone give 
> > me a "quick fix" for this problem?
> 
> 
> Charles, the pref file gets saved and it stores the data. The other 
> stacks in the app do not get saved I presume, so any changes to them 
> are only temporary. When your app starts, say in a startup handler or 
> in a preOpenStack handler, read the settings from your prefs file and 
> apply them again, as if someone had just entered the data into the 
> prefs stack. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Sarah 
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Re: Help with pref file

[Sarah Reichelt]

> I set up my pref file to be a substack of my app. My app is launched using a
> Splash screen. The user clicks on the Preference in the menu and then enters
> the name of the school for the report in the Prefs substack. When the
> Preference substack is closed, the name of the school appears throughout the
> report at the top of the card.
>
> Here is my problem: When I added a name of the school in the preference pane
> and closed it the name was correctly inserted in the report. When I quit the
> program and restart it the name of the school is not in the report but it
> still appears in the Preference substack. So the name of the school is saved
> in Preference substack but it is not being saved in the report?  I am
> supposed to conduct a test of my program today in a school. Can anyone give
> me a "quick fix" for this problem?


Charles, the pref file gets saved and it stores the data. The other
stacks in the app do not get saved I presume, so any changes to them
are only temporary. When your app starts, say in a startup handler or
in a preOpenStack handler, read the settings from your prefs file and
apply them again, as if someone had just entered the data into the
prefs stack.

Cheers,
Sarah
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RE: Help with save as or new using standalones

[Jim Bufalini]

Bill Ziegler wrote:

> I've created some programs for students with disabilities. At first I
> circulated them with the the Mac and Pc players. It was easy to script
> a 'New' that copied the stack and cleared all text and audioClips. The
> 'Save as' made a  copied of the stack. Both renamed the new stack.
> Schools with pc's need them to run from the startup menu since the
> students can't drag them onto the player. I made them standalones but
> now I don't know the proper way or logic or even an intelligent way to
> ask the question of duplicating them. The Mac version is in a package,
> the pc is in a folder with an externals folder, the slpashstack and
> the real stack. I need to keep the audio in the stacks to make it
> easier for students to transport their work from home to school and
> back. Would I use the copyFolder command and save it to the same level/
> folder as the original? I have them on my On-Rev Server website at
> www.billziegler.com
>   . The two I'm having trouble with, when turned into standalones, are
> the "ReportCards MacPC" and "Just Say It".
> 
> I couldn't find anything in the archives. If there is an old post or a
> tutorial in detail I could start with that.
> 
> Thanks in advanced

I am not sure I clearly understand the issue and I am sure I do not know the
environment of your students or how you normally distribute your software
(Do teachers just download the zips you have on your site? What do they do
with these zips? Do they know how to unzip? Etc.). 

However, assuming that the issue involves running on PCs and further
assuming you are looking for a single click way to launch your programs,
there are a few things you can do:

1. The normal way to distribute a program to PCs is build a standalone in
Rev and then you use a third party "installer" to install on other PCs. An
installer is itself an EXE that contains your standalone EXE, as well as any
other directories and files your standalone EXE needs to run. The installer
EXE is downloaded by the end user and, when run, it places your standalone
EXE, along with its directories and files, into the Program Files directory
of the PC and creates a shortcut to your program in the Startup Menu, and
optionally on the desktop and/or Taskbar.

If you look up *PC installer* in the mail archives you will find a LOT of
information on different installers people use and how to use them. Other
things you can do:

2. First. Take the spaces out of your program names! I downloaded your *Just
My Type MacPc beta1b.zip* and unzipped it. Using this as an example, please
rename *Just My Type MacPc beta v1c.rev* to something like *
Just_My_Type_MacPc_beta_v1c.rev* or *JustMyTypeMacPcBetav1c.rev*.

Now, you seem to imply that your teachers/students already have *Revolution
Player.exe* and are able to launch this but that the problem is that they
cannot "drag" your rev program into the player. If this is the case, then
you can simply have them place your *JustMyTypeMacPcBetav1c.rev* into the
same folder as the player. Now you create a shortcut to *Revolution
Player.exe* Rename this shortcut to *Just My Type MacPc beta v1c* (yes, you
can leave the spaces in the name of the shortcut). Edit the properties of
the shortcut and in the General tab where it says Target: "C:\...Revolution
Player.exe" add a space after the last quote and
*JustMyTypeMacPcBetav1c.rev* (without the asterisks, of course, and no
quotes).

This shortcut can now be placed on the desktop or the Start Menu folder and
clicking on it will launch the player and the player will automatically load
and launch your rev stack (provided it has no spaces in the stack file
name). If the players are all located in the same directory on all machines,
you can pre-build this shortcut and distribute it with your zip.

3. Lastly (and this may be the easiest for you and so I saved it for
last;-), there are some free programs that will "install" a zip file on a
PC. One is called ZipInstaller and available from
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/zipinst.html. 

In this case, you can create a standalone EXE with Rev and place the
directories and files exactly like you want them and just zip it. Then tell
your users to download this zip and also the zipinst.exe, which you can put
on your site and make available for free download.

They run zipinst and point it at your zip, that they just downloaded, and
this program will unzip your zip and install your standalone EXE in the
Program Files directory of a PC, create shortcuts to your program in the
Start Programs folder, and optionally on the desktop and taskbar, and even
creates an uninstall program to remove your program from the PC, should the
user so desire. Once installed, they can now just click on your program name
from the Start Menu and optionally desktop or Taskbar.

I hope this all helps.

Aloha from Hawaii,

Jim Bufalini

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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Kay C Lan]

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:13 AM, Andrew Kluthe  wrote:
>
> What about combining the custom property idea with the db idea. Eventually
> the data for my application will be in a remote mySQL and I would like to be
> able to update help information and have it get changed on the client end as
> its updated in the db.

Yes, that would work
>
> I need non-tech folks that work for our company who know the purposes of the
> items in this software to be able to enter help info into the db and it be
> spit out.
>
I'd suggest you implement something in your registration key code that
identifies who are 'normal' users, and who are 'company' users.

I think you could then proceed in at least two ways (with Rev there's
sure to be more:-)

A simple method of checking for the 'optionKey is down'

on mouseUp
if ((the optionKey is down) and (the cRego of this stack contains "PLEH")) then
   --present a field with the current Help message
   --allow for updating Help messages
   else
   --normal process
end mouseUp

That way, a company worker who comes across a Help message error, can
click on the object (with the optionKey down) and update the Help
message right then and there. Of course you may have other plans for
option/command/alt/control key combinations.

Another option could be 'company' users have an extra checkbox on
their Preference page (or an extra Menu Item, that allows them to
enter 'Update mode', which removes all the data from the fields and
leaves a blank card with all the fields and buttons which can be
clicked and Help messages individually updated.
>
> So maybe a have a handler that watches for the custom message property to
> determine what control it is and the hanlder gets info from the db to put
> into the help.
>
If you are referring to the getProp message, I don't see a reason in
this situation to use it.
Assuming your DB is large or bigger, then you'd need to organise some
scheme of keeping track of updates in portions of the DB, (ie just
prices, products added removed, Help info updated) so when users go
online a quick check is done and then they are given the option to
update the latest info.

> Is this going to put too much stress on my db?

I doubt it very much.

HTH
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Andrew Kluthe]

What about combining the custom property idea with the db idea. Eventually
the data for my application will be in a remote mySQL and I would like to be
able to update help information and have it get changed on the client end as
its updated in the db.

I need non-tech folks that work for our company who know the purposes of the
items in this software to be able to enter help info into the db and it be
spit out.


So maybe a have a handler that watches for the custom message property to
determine what control it is and the hanlder gets info from the db to put
into the help.

Is this going to put too much stress on my db?
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Andrew Kluthe]

Cool, I am going to meditate on the responses and come up with something
that will take care of my needs. Thank you all for the quick input and
elaborate responses!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Trevor DeVore [via Runtime Revolution] <
ml-node+1477997-959398...@n4.nabble.com
> wrote:

> On Feb 11, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:
>
> > I am converting my noble little app into the glx framework, as I've
> > realized
> > that what it does will be invaluable to me in the long run.
>
> Welcome aboard Andrew. I think you will find the framework very useful
> for application development as it provides the vital pieces that you
> need for creating and maintaining an application in Revolution.
>
> The alternative is to spend time writing your own equivalents. While
> that would be an educational experience you don't get much bang for
> your buck.
>
> There is still a lot of areas that need more thorough documentation so
> if you have a question ask. That usually gives me enough incentive to
> add a few lessons.
>
> There is a Google Group you can send questions to. The link is on the
> main GLX Application Framework page.
>
>
> http://www.bluemangolearning.com/revolution/software/libraries/glx-application-framework/
>
> > A feature that was requested a couple of days ago, and I assume
> > needs to be
> > developed early in the process, is for a Help system.
> >
> > For Example:
> >
> > ...
> > Reading up on GLX, it said something about handling broadcasting.
> >
> > Can I use GLX's broadcasting features to do something like this? Am I
> > misunderstanding the purpose of broadcasting? Am I spinning off into
> > the
> > wrong quadrant of space?
>
> I would go with the advice you have received from others rather than
> using the broadcasting feature of the framework.
>
> In your situation you have multiple objects that are trying to display
> information in a central location. The data is flowing into the help
> display but nobody else really needs to know that the help display has
> been updated.
>
> The broadcasting APIs included with the framework are relevant when
> you have lots of parties interested in any changes made to a single
> object (the reverse of what you are doing).
>
> Basically broadcasting providers a way for any number of objects to
> sign up and say, "Hey, I want to know when object A's property is
> changed or such and such an event occurs." When object A's property is
> changed or the event occurs object A sends out a broadcast. The
> Broadcasting API dispatches messages to all the objects that signed up
> to be notified. Object A doesn't need to know who is signed up.
>
> One concrete example that may prove useful - in one of my apps I have
> a lesson table in a SQL database. The title of a lesson can be
> displayed in a number of different places in the UI. Each UI element
> that displays the lesson title has signed up to be notified when the
> lesson title is changed in the database. When the lesson title is
> changed a broadcast is made and a message is sent out to each object
> that signed up to be notified.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Learning Systems
> ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
> Releasable Revolution Resources for Developers:
> http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
>
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> removed) ==>.
>
>
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[J. Landman Gay]

Kay C Lan wrote:

is it really the case that you can move the
mouse fast, but stop it in an object and not have the mouseEnter
message sent?


It used to be, some years ago when I was first grappling with it. I was 
able to get the mouse into an object rect without the engine noticing. 
It probably makes a difference if you have other processing going on at 
the same time too (like "send in time" messaging that calls long 
handlers.) Actually, that was one reason I changed over to mousemove in 
another app. I originally started with mouseEnter but it wasn't working 
consistently, maybe because I had other long handlers completing at the 
same time. Things have probably improved by now but I've stuck with my 
mousemove approach because it's an easy one-liner, reliable, and doesn't 
seem to interfere with anything.


I do use mouseEnter too, it depends on the situation (and it's probably 
just a matter of personal preference which you choose anyway.) Your 
point about only triggering one entry point is valid. There are lots of 
situations where that's preferable.



I've extensively used mouseEnter for pop-up text activation and have
never noticed it didn't work. Isn't this what the Engine uses for
ToolTips?


It does usually work, so people shouldn't get the idea that it's 
error-riddled or anything -- and I think the engine does use it for 
tooltips. But I have occasionally seen tooltips missed too.




Obviously this isn't extensive testing, but if people are experiencing
mouseEnter messages not being sent, isn't this an Engine problem that
should be sent the QCC?


It would be if I were more sure it was Rev's fault. I see tooltip 
failures in other apps routinely (maybe this is only an OS X problem; 
that's what I mostly use.) Photoshop Elements is terrible about it, 
sometimes missing up to half of them. So I'm not convinced it's Rev, it 
seems to be everywhere on my machine. I wonder if it's OS-related. Or 
maybe it's all the stuff I run in the background all the time.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Kay C Lan]

Jacque,

I'm treading very carefully here because I'm a mere peasant in the
shadow of a Master, but is it really the case that you can move the
mouse fast, but stop it in an object and not have the mouseEnter
message sent? Whilst I accept that it 'may'* be possible to move the
mouse completely across an object so fast that the mouseEnter message
isn't sent, in the case of toolTips, or contextual Help, this isn't a
concern, in fact it's a good thing that you don't get a dozen scripts
activated and Help messages popping up when really all you want is the
Help for the object under the final resting place of the mouse.

*As a quick test I created a new stack with a large field in the
middle and entered the following scripts:

on mouseEnter
   put "MouseEnter" into Msg
end mouseEnter

on mouseMove
   put cr & "MouseMove" after Msg
end mouseMove

on mouseLeave
   put cr & "MouseLeave" after msg
end mouseLeave

Whilst running the mouse as quickly as possible across the field I
could easily end up with no text in the Msg box, indicating no
messages were sent at all, not even mouseMove. Slowing down a bit I
always got all 3 messages. Every time I came to a halt in the field I
always had the MouseEnter text.

I've extensively used mouseEnter for pop-up text activation and have
never noticed it didn't work. Isn't this what the Engine uses for
ToolTips?

Obviously this isn't extensive testing, but if people are experiencing
mouseEnter messages not being sent, isn't this an Engine problem that
should be sent the QCC?

I appreciate the problem with overlapping objects, but this is covered
in the Dictionary.

I await thy wisdom :-)

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:22 AM, J. Landman Gay
 wrote:
> Kay C Lan wrote:
>
>> Lastly, I'd probably use mouseEnter rather than mouseMove. Over a
>> large field, mouseMove could be sent multiple times, causing your
>> script to be triggered unnecessarily. MouseEnter will only be sent
>> once.
>
> I thought about that, and in fact the field doesn't even have to be very
> large for it to trigger multiple times, but that's an advantage. Sometimes
> mouseEnter doesn't trigger. MouseMove almost always does. If the user is
> moving very fast or there is an overlapping control, you don't always get a
> mouseEnter, and you only have one shot at it. Then you also have to catch
> mouseLeave too, in order to empty the help field text. So I think I'd still
> use mousemove here.
>
> I used mousemove in my Klondike game, where each iteration executed a very
> long handler, and there was no noticeable slowdown. That was about 10 years
> ago now, when machines were slower. So now I don't worry about it any more.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Trevor DeVore]

On Feb 11, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:

I am converting my noble little app into the glx framework, as I've  
realized

that what it does will be invaluable to me in the long run.


Welcome aboard Andrew. I think you will find the framework very useful  
for application development as it provides the vital pieces that you  
need for creating and maintaining an application in Revolution.


The alternative is to spend time writing your own equivalents. While  
that would be an educational experience you don't get much bang for  
your buck.


There is still a lot of areas that need more thorough documentation so  
if you have a question ask. That usually gives me enough incentive to  
add a few lessons.


There is a Google Group you can send questions to. The link is on the  
main GLX Application Framework page.


http://www.bluemangolearning.com/revolution/software/libraries/glx-application-framework/

A feature that was requested a couple of days ago, and I assume  
needs to be

developed early in the process, is for a Help system.

For Example:

...
Reading up on GLX, it said something about handling broadcasting.

Can I use GLX's broadcasting features to do something like this? Am I
misunderstanding the purpose of broadcasting? Am I spinning off into  
the

wrong quadrant of space?


I would go with the advice you have received from others rather than  
using the broadcasting feature of the framework.


In your situation you have multiple objects that are trying to display  
information in a central location. The data is flowing into the help  
display but nobody else really needs to know that the help display has  
been updated.


The broadcasting APIs included with the framework are relevant when  
you have lots of parties interested in any changes made to a single  
object (the reverse of what you are doing).


Basically broadcasting providers a way for any number of objects to  
sign up and say, "Hey, I want to know when object A's property is  
changed or such and such an event occurs." When object A's property is  
changed or the event occurs object A sends out a broadcast. The  
Broadcasting API dispatches messages to all the objects that signed up  
to be notified. Object A doesn't need to know who is signed up.


One concrete example that may prove useful - in one of my apps I have  
a lesson table in a SQL database. The title of a lesson can be  
displayed in a number of different places in the UI. Each UI element  
that displays the lesson title has signed up to be notified when the  
lesson title is changed in the database. When the lesson title is  
changed a broadcast is made and a message is sent out to each object  
that signed up to be notified.


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Releasable Revolution Resources for Developers: 
http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
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RE: Help message Broadcasting system

[Jim Bufalini]

Jacque wrote:

> Jeff Massung wrote:
> 
> > Instead, what about just having a background message loop processing
> that's
> > always checking the current focus target and displaying the help text
> for it
> > (if that option is enabled). For example:
> 
> 
> 
> Good approach, that. I'd use a built-in message in the engine instead
> though, it's shorter.
> 
> In the stack script (or whatever script is in the hierarchy for all the
> relevant objects):
> 
> on mousemove x,y
>   put the helptext of the target into fld "help field"
> end mousemove
> 
> Then make a custom property called "helptext" for any object that needs
> to display it.
> 
> This handler will automatically empty the helptext field when
> appropriate, because if a custom property doesn't exist in an object,
> its value is returned as empty. One advantage to the above is that you
> don't need any loops or messaging. One disadvantage is that you have to
> remember to pass the mousemove message if any of the controls also use
> it, but that's minor.

I was just about to suggest what Jacque just suggested. ;-)

To piggyback on her suggestion... You may want to use a custom property set
of the main stack or even a separate text file, so that all your help
messages are in one place. And, if someday, you want to make your app
multilingual, having all of your help messages in one place to be translated
will be convenient. To do this requires a custom property set. So, instead
of: 

put the helpText of target into fld "helpField"

it would be :

put the helpText[target] of stack "" into fld "helpField"

Jeff, one other suggestion. By putting the custom messaging the way you have
it in the openCard of every card, it is possible, if someone has say 20
cards the user has gone to, that you have 20 displayHelp messages looping
every second, just milliseconds apart, even when your app is idle. To avoid
this, you should always check the pendingMessages first before sending a
custom repeating message as in:

if "displayHelp" is not in the pendingMessages then
send displayHelp to me in 1 second
end if

The other advantage of using Rev built-in messaging is that they may not
trigger when say the app is minimized of otherwise off-screen. Especially,
for example, if you use mouseEnter instead of mouseMove.

Aloha from Hawaii,

Jim Bufalini



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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[J. Landman Gay]

Kay C Lan wrote:


Lastly, I'd probably use mouseEnter rather than mouseMove. Over a
large field, mouseMove could be sent multiple times, causing your
script to be triggered unnecessarily. MouseEnter will only be sent
once.


I thought about that, and in fact the field doesn't even have to be very 
large for it to trigger multiple times, but that's an advantage. 
Sometimes mouseEnter doesn't trigger. MouseMove almost always does. If 
the user is moving very fast or there is an overlapping control, you 
don't always get a mouseEnter, and you only have one shot at it. Then 
you also have to catch mouseLeave too, in order to empty the help field 
text. So I think I'd still use mousemove here.


I used mousemove in my Klondike game, where each iteration executed a 
very long handler, and there was no noticeable slowdown. That was about 
10 years ago now, when machines were slower. So now I don't worry about 
it any more.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Kay C Lan]

Andrew,

I basically agree with Björnke with a couple of comments:

'help' is a constant and a message in Rev so using it as a custom
property may cause problems. As I guess you've already seen, most
people have some kind of prefix naming convention:

g    Global variable    gMyGlobal
t     Local 'temporary' variable    tMyVar
s    Script-local variable    sMyVar
p    Parameter (also called an argument)    sMyParam
k    Constant    kMyNumber
u    User-defined (or custom) properties    uMyProp

(stolen without permission from Richard Gaskin's excellent Fourth World site)

http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html

Secondly, look up 'target' in the Dictionary. Basically you can use
this to save yourself a lot of scripting. Instead of placing the same
script in every object you want Help, you just have to have one script
at the stack or card level, depending on your set up.

If you already have a DB with the Help statements then you would need
to add another column, 'target' and enter the matching data. You
already know how to extract data out of a DB using Rev so nothing new
there.

If you haven't got that DB set up, then I think Björnke's suggestion
of using custom properties is a good one. The information is stored in
a logical location, easy to find and update.

Rather than 'the text of field', have a look at 'HTMLText' in the
Dictionary. That way you can add little icons and bold text etc for
more emphasis, just like Rev's Dictionary.

Lastly, I'd probably use mouseEnter rather than mouseMove. Over a
large field, mouseMove could be sent multiple times, causing your
script to be triggered unnecessarily. MouseEnter will only be sent
once.

on mouseEnter
    set the HTMLText of field "Yellow Help Box" to the uMyHelp of the target
end mouseEnter

HTH

2010/2/12 Björnke von Gierke 
>
> I'd do it like this, a script in every object that needs a help entry:
>
> on mouseMove
>  set the text of field "Yellow Help Box" to the help of me
> end mouseMove
>
> In the property inspector, go to the "custom properties" part, and click the 
> topmost "+" sign.  in the dialog enter "help", and then enter the appropriate 
> content into the bottommost field.
>
> Note: if you develop cross platform apps, then you do want to use mactoiso() 
> or isotomac() on the custom property contents. One or the other, depending on 
> which platform() you do fill the properties.
>
> As for the GLX framework, I only glanced at it shortly once, and thought it 
> overly complex. like almost everything i look at these days...
>
> Have fun
> Björnke
>
> On 11 Feb 2010, at 22:33, Andrew Kluthe wrote:
>
> >
> > I am converting my noble little app into the glx framework, as I've realized
> > that what it does will be invaluable to me in the long run.
> >
> > A feature that was requested a couple of days ago, and I assume needs to be
> > developed early in the process, is for a Help system.
> >
> > For Example:
> >
> > 1.You click a field, lets say the field is for entering an insurance policy
> > number.
> >
> > 2. A box that is always on the bottom of the card/stack displays information
> > from a help Table in a db telling you the format of the purpose of this
> > field. (i.e. what to put here, what it means, what format it needs to be in,
> > etc.)
> >
> > I said that I could use tooltips to do something similar, but they really
> > want that little yellow help box.
> >
> > Reading up on GLX, it said something about handling broadcasting.
> >
> > Can I use GLX's broadcasting features to do something like this? Am I
> > misunderstanding the purpose of broadcasting? Am I spinning off into the
> > wrong quadrant of space?
> >
> > Your thoughts.
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[J. Landman Gay]

Jeff Massung wrote:


Instead, what about just having a background message loop processing that's
always checking the current focus target and displaying the help text for it
(if that option is enabled). For example:




Good approach, that. I'd use a built-in message in the engine instead 
though, it's shorter.


In the stack script (or whatever script is in the hierarchy for all the 
relevant objects):


on mousemove x,y
 put the helptext of the target into fld "help field"
end mousemove

Then make a custom property called "helptext" for any object that needs 
to display it.


This handler will automatically empty the helptext field when 
appropriate, because if a custom property doesn't exist in an object, 
its value is returned as empty. One advantage to the above is that you 
don't need any loops or messaging. One disadvantage is that you have to 
remember to pass the mousemove message if any of the controls also use 
it, but that's minor.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[rodney tamblyn]

Hi Andrew,

Here is a simple example stack I put together to illustrate how the GLX 
Application Framework broadcast system works.  I hope this helps.

~ Rodney

On 12/02/2010, at 10:33 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:

> 
> I am converting my noble little app into the glx framework, as I've realized
> that what it does will be invaluable to me in the long run. 
> 
> A feature that was requested a couple of days ago, and I assume needs to be
> developed early in the process, is for a Help system. 
> 
> For Example:
> 
> 1.You click a field, lets say the field is for entering an insurance policy
> number.
> 
> 2. A box that is always on the bottom of the card/stack displays information
> from a help Table in a db telling you the format of the purpose of this
> field. (i.e. what to put here, what it means, what format it needs to be in,
> etc.)
> 
> I said that I could use tooltips to do something similar, but they really
> want that little yellow help box.
> 
> Reading up on GLX, it said something about handling broadcasting.
> 
> Can I use GLX's broadcasting features to do something like this? Am I
> misunderstanding the purpose of broadcasting? Am I spinning off into the
> wrong quadrant of space?
> 
> Your thoughts.
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n4.nabble.com/Help-message-Broadcasting-system-tp1477816p1477816.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Jeff Massung]

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Andrew Kluthe  wrote:

>
> I am converting my noble little app into the glx framework, as I've
> realized
> that what it does will be invaluable to me in the long run.
>
> A feature that was requested a couple of days ago, and I assume needs to be
> developed early in the process, is for a Help system.
>
> For Example:
>
> 1.You click a field, lets say the field is for entering an insurance policy
> number.
>
> 2. A box that is always on the bottom of the card/stack displays
> information
> from a help Table in a db telling you the format of the purpose of this
> field. (i.e. what to put here, what it means, what format it needs to be
> in,
> etc.)
>

Andrew,

I don't know anything about GLX, but if I were you - since this "feature"
would likely permeate throughout your app - I'd do something that didn't
require you having to edit code in every single control of your app to
broadcast or otherwise change the help text.

Instead, what about just having a background message loop processing that's
always checking the current focus target and displaying the help text for it
(if that option is enabled). For example:


[[ -- begin source code -- ]]

local sTarget

on openCard
   -- start the Help System message loop
   send "displayHelp" to me in 1 second
end openCard

on displayHelp
   get the focusedObject

   -- don't continuously do the same work for the same control
   if it is not sTarget then
  put it into sTarget

  -- TODO: update the contents of stack "Help"

  -- if the stack is closed, but the option is enabled, open it now
  if the mode of stack "Help" is 0 and gHelpEnabled then
 modeless stack "Help"
  end if
   end if

   -- continue the help message loop
   send "displayHelp" to me in 1 second
end displayHelp

[[ -- end source code -- ]]


That way, you can just set data in each control that you want to display
help for and don't have to actually do any coding for any of them.

Jeff M.
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Re: Help message Broadcasting system

[Björnke von Gierke]

I'd do it like this, a script in every object that needs a help entry:

on mouseMove
 set the text of field "Yellow Help Box" to the help of me
end mouseMove

In the property inspector, go to the "custom properties" part, and click the 
topmost "+" sign.  in the dialog enter "help", and then enter the appropriate 
content into the bottommost field.

Note: if you develop cross platform apps, then you do want to use mactoiso() or 
isotomac() on the custom property contents. One or the other, depending on 
which platform() you do fill the properties.

As for the GLX framework, I only glanced at it shortly once, and thought it 
overly complex. like almost everything i look at these days...

Have fun
Björnke

On 11 Feb 2010, at 22:33, Andrew Kluthe wrote:

> 
> I am converting my noble little app into the glx framework, as I've realized
> that what it does will be invaluable to me in the long run. 
> 
> A feature that was requested a couple of days ago, and I assume needs to be
> developed early in the process, is for a Help system. 
> 
> For Example:
> 
> 1.You click a field, lets say the field is for entering an insurance policy
> number.
> 
> 2. A box that is always on the bottom of the card/stack displays information
> from a help Table in a db telling you the format of the purpose of this
> field. (i.e. what to put here, what it means, what format it needs to be in,
> etc.)
> 
> I said that I could use tooltips to do something similar, but they really
> want that little yellow help box.
> 
> Reading up on GLX, it said something about handling broadcasting.
> 
> Can I use GLX's broadcasting features to do something like this? Am I
> misunderstanding the purpose of broadcasting? Am I spinning off into the
> wrong quadrant of space?
> 
> Your thoughts.
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Re: Help!?! Global GameJam

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, David Bovill wrote:

> Can someone advise on the latest in terms of Flash / Rev integration -
> either via QuickTime or embedded browser? How can I get the communication
> going?

As Josh mentioned, Flash doesn't play with QuickTime anymore; revBrowser is
your only option.  But then one would have to ask, why use Rev at all?
Since Flash is an interactive platform, layering Rev on top of it doesn't
add anything.  It seems you'd be better off producing something natively in
Rev, but I'm guessing you'll be hard pressed to find other game developers
using Rev.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Help!?! Global GameJam

[Josh Mellicker]

David,

About a year and a half ago, Apple removed all support for Flash  
tracks in QT movies. So a browser is the only way to go.


Cheers,

Josh

On Jan 29, 2010, at 5:52 PM, David Bovill   
wrote:



Hi - I've roped my self into Global Game Jam
- 48 hours to build a game with a group
of people you've never met with
nearly 140 different physical locations all round the world. Naturally
thinking of using Rev - but will need to work with the other team  
members

most of whom are C++ / C# and Flash ActionScript developers.

Can someone advise on the latest in terms of Flash / Rev integration -
either via QuickTime or embedded browser? How can I get the  
communication
going? AFAIK the interactivity and playback with QuickTime was only  
with
early versions of Flash? With the latest and greatest is there any  
technique
that is easy to implement in this short time scale? Or should I give  
up on

that one and get more sleep :)

I'm thinking next year it would be a great place to market RunRev  
cross

platform rapid development capabilities!
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Re: Help with audio

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Emmett Gray wrote:

> I converted it to 16 bit and reimported into the stack and it's OK
> now. Just to be sure, I reimported the 24-bit version and got the
> same original result. So it seems Rev chokes on 24bit audio.

Rev's ability to play imported sound files is somewhat limited.  These might
help:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/121917/
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/6060/

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Re: Help with audio

[J. Landman Gay]

Emmett Gray wrote:

Opie here.


LOL! Sorry we hijacked your thread. But I did want to say I remember you 
from the HC list and I'm so glad you made it over here.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[Emmett Gray]

Opie here. I wrote:


file ... sounds fine in Rev if I access it instead of the imported one.


I.e., playing the file in Rev by filepath results in the correct 
sound. So what's going on? Is QT actually doing the playing of 
external audio even though I'm not calling up the player, or is it 
the OS's native audio management? BTW the sound is not compressed, 
it's a standard mono WAV file, a sculptured click sampled from a 
CueLine ProCue 1M1.


I converted it to 16 bit and reimported into the stack and it's OK 
now. Just to be sure, I reimported the 24-bit version and got the 
same original result. So it seems Rev chokes on 24bit audio.



Try using the player and quicktime and the file as an external source (set
the filename of player 1 to ) as opposed to being imbedded. Quicktime
should properly handle 24 bit audio, but not sure about the native play
component.

If you need to imbed the sounds, then convert and dither the 24 bit files
down to 16 bits with the same sample rate.   Peak, Sound Studio, Audacity,
quicktime should do this. Monkey Tools can do this in batches.

If indeed the internal play command is 16 bit only we should know that.
Thanks for reporting this.
-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev


2009/12/28 Emmett Gray 


 I've converted another HC stack, a multi-timer which includes a metronome
 function. I'm having an issue with the audio: the "Click.wev" imported
 audioClip sounds awful and very often sounds different or has no sound at
 > all. The original is a 48k 24-bit file and sounds fine in Rev if 
I access it

 > instead of the imported one. I imported it using the import command. Do I

 need to downsample or change the bit rate or do something else before

 > importing to make it sound OK in Rev?


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Re: Help with audio

[Mark Wieder]

Jacque-

Monday, December 28, 2009, 1:39:56 PM, you wrote:

> Grateful Dead ones hanging down in the basement. The paper ones. Not the
> guys in the shackles.

Cold iron shackles, ball and chain
Listen to the whistle of the evenin' train

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Help with audio

[J. Landman Gay]

Jerry Daniels wrote:

Stephen,

I fear that's too sophisticated for my Texas palette. A word like "Opie" 
is used here-abouts to show surprise at getting pie for dessert instead 
of pralines or flan.


But...but..."opee" looks like...oh, never mind.

And BTW, Aunt Bee was right. My face did stick that way.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[Jerry Daniels]

Stephen,

I fear that's too sophisticated for my Texas palette. A word like  
"Opie" is used here-abouts to show surprise at getting pie for dessert  
instead of pralines or flan.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

The latest Rev Editor Video:
http://reveditor.com/feature-friday-drag-a-handler-to-any-tab


On Dec 28, 2009, at 5:12 PM, stephen barncard wrote:


Nope

O P I E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opie_Taylor

-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev


2009/12/28 Jerry Daniels 


Jacque,

You went for the bait. Hehe. Been around awhile, I have (Yoda voice).

Incidentally, I don't ban winks, only limit them on chats to 1  
every 15
minutes. This is out of compassion. Your face could stay that way.  
Aunt Bee
said so many times to OP. I think that was spelled "Opee" but I  
don't want
to start a coagulated milk product discussion here. That does  
result in

banning or suspension at least.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

The latest Rev Editor Video:
http://reveditor.com/feature-friday-drag-a-handler-to-any-tab


On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

Jerry Daniels wrote:



Jacque,
OP? Are Aunt Bee and Andy involved?



You just don't read enough lists, Jerry. Clearly (any post that  
contains
the word "clearly" is always true, you know...it's like, a rule)  
you haven't
been around enough. OP = "original poster". Like the old Grateful  
Dead ones
hanging down in the basement. The paper ones. Not the guys in the  
shackles.


No smiley because you've banned the good ones. :)

Oops, sorry. :/ Oops. I mean :P

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[stephen barncard]

Nope

O P I E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opie_Taylor

-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev


2009/12/28 Jerry Daniels 

> Jacque,
>
> You went for the bait. Hehe. Been around awhile, I have (Yoda voice).
>
> Incidentally, I don't ban winks, only limit them on chats to 1 every 15
> minutes. This is out of compassion. Your face could stay that way. Aunt Bee
> said so many times to OP. I think that was spelled "Opee" but I don't want
> to start a coagulated milk product discussion here. That does result in
> banning or suspension at least.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> The latest Rev Editor Video:
> http://reveditor.com/feature-friday-drag-a-handler-to-any-tab
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>  Jerry Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> Jacque,
>>> OP? Are Aunt Bee and Andy involved?
>>>
>>
>> You just don't read enough lists, Jerry. Clearly (any post that contains
>> the word "clearly" is always true, you know...it's like, a rule) you haven't
>> been around enough. OP = "original poster". Like the old Grateful Dead ones
>> hanging down in the basement. The paper ones. Not the guys in the shackles.
>>
>> No smiley because you've banned the good ones. :)
>>
>> Oops, sorry. :/ Oops. I mean :P
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> ___
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: Help with audio

[Jerry Daniels]

Jacque,

You went for the bait. Hehe. Been around awhile, I have (Yoda voice).

Incidentally, I don't ban winks, only limit them on chats to 1 every  
15 minutes. This is out of compassion. Your face could stay that way.  
Aunt Bee said so many times to OP. I think that was spelled "Opee" but  
I don't want to start a coagulated milk product discussion here. That  
does result in banning or suspension at least.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

The latest Rev Editor Video:
http://reveditor.com/feature-friday-drag-a-handler-to-any-tab

On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


Jerry Daniels wrote:

Jacque,
OP? Are Aunt Bee and Andy involved?


You just don't read enough lists, Jerry. Clearly (any post that  
contains the word "clearly" is always true, you know...it's like, a  
rule) you haven't been around enough. OP = "original poster". Like  
the old Grateful Dead ones hanging down in the basement. The paper  
ones. Not the guys in the shackles.


No smiley because you've banned the good ones. :)

Oops, sorry. :/ Oops. I mean :P

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[J. Landman Gay]

Jerry Daniels wrote:

Jacque,

OP? Are Aunt Bee and Andy involved?


You just don't read enough lists, Jerry. Clearly (any post that contains 
the word "clearly" is always true, you know...it's like, a rule) you 
haven't been around enough. OP = "original poster". Like the old 
Grateful Dead ones hanging down in the basement. The paper ones. Not the 
guys in the shackles.


No smiley because you've banned the good ones. :)

Oops, sorry. :/ Oops. I mean :P

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[stephen barncard]

no but the old sound stuff is very Gomer Plye and Barney
Fife
.
-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev


2009/12/28 Jerry Daniels 

> Jacque,
>
> OP? Are Aunt Bee and Andy involved?
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:11 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>  because the OP said he was importing a sound clip
>>
>
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Re: Help with audio

[Jerry Daniels]

Jacque,

OP? Are Aunt Bee and Andy involved?

Jerry

On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:11 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


because the OP said he was importing a sound clip


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Re: Help with audio

[J. Landman Gay]

stephen barncard wrote:

ALTHOUGH - when you use the 'set the filename to' and quicktime, you can
play any file that quicktime handles, especially MP3 compression --- AND
EVEN A LIVE MP3 STREAM


Very true. I only mentioned the compression issue because the OP said he 
was importing a sound clip. I figured since it's just a "click" sound, 
using a player with an external file seemed like overkill.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[stephen barncard]

ALTHOUGH - when you use the 'set the filename to' and quicktime, you can
play any file that quicktime handles, especially MP3 compression --- AND
EVEN A LIVE MP3 STREAM

there's a big gap between the two technologies here...

regardless of the politics (and perceived reluctance) surrounding Quicktime,
it's still the first and best technology for this purpose. They've been
doing this for a long time.

The new Quicktime is leaner and meaner, and should be an improvement.
-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev


2009/12/28 J. Landman Gay 

> Emmett Gray wrote:
>
>> I've converted another HC stack, a multi-timer which includes a metronome
>> function. I'm having an issue with the audio: the "Click.wev" imported
>> audioClip sounds awful and very often sounds different or has no sound at
>> all. The original is a 48k 24-bit file and sounds fine in Rev if I access it
>> instead of the imported one. I imported it using the import command. Do I
>> need to downsample or change the bit rate or do something else before
>> importing to make it sound OK in Rev?
>>
>
> Rev can't use any compressed audio format, so in addition to what Stephen
> said, make sure when you convert the sound file that it isn't compressed.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: Help with audio

[J. Landman Gay]

Emmett Gray wrote:
I've converted another HC stack, a multi-timer which includes a 
metronome function. I'm having an issue with the audio: the "Click.wev" 
imported audioClip sounds awful and very often sounds different or has 
no sound at all. The original is a 48k 24-bit file and sounds fine in 
Rev if I access it instead of the imported one. I imported it using the 
import command. Do I need to downsample or change the bit rate or do 
something else before importing to make it sound OK in Rev?


Rev can't use any compressed audio format, so in addition to what 
Stephen said, make sure when you convert the sound file that it isn't 
compressed.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Help with audio

[stephen barncard]

Probably the 24 bit thing.

Try using the player and quicktime and the file as an external source (set
the filename of player 1 to ) as opposed to being imbedded. Quicktime
should properly handle 24 bit audio, but not sure about the native play
component.

If you need to imbed the sounds, then convert and dither the 24 bit files
down to 16 bits with the same sample rate.   Peak, Sound Studio, Audacity,
quicktime should do this. Monkey Tools can do this in batches.

If indeed the internal play command is 16 bit only we should know that.
Thanks for reporting this.
-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev


2009/12/28 Emmett Gray 

> I've converted another HC stack, a multi-timer which includes a metronome
> function. I'm having an issue with the audio: the "Click.wev" imported
> audioClip sounds awful and very often sounds different or has no sound at
> all. The original is a 48k 24-bit file and sounds fine in Rev if I access it
> instead of the imported one. I imported it using the import command. Do I
> need to downsample or change the bit rate or do something else before
> importing to make it sound OK in Rev?
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Re: Help key

[Beat Cornaz]

Thanks Mark, Richmond & Jim for your answers,

My first try was with a combination of a modifier key and ?. But i'd  
like to use just one key for it. It is not for going to the general  
help, but only some objects do have this special help function, so  
the 'help key' has to work together with the mouse, meaning you move  
the mouse around and press the 'help key' and the question mark shows  
up, if your mouse is over an object that has this special help  
function. That's why I searched on.


F1 (as some other F keys), will not work completely, as it leaves a  
square or an arrow down (non printable char) in the field  if the  
focus is on a non locked field. That's why I had to abandon the 'h' key.


What about F6, which does not seem to put anything into a field? Is  
it used for something on mac or windows?

. Or does anyone else have another idea?

Thanks,

Beat

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