Re: special folders

[AndyP]

Hi David,

I've posted a Specil Folders utility stack to the RevOnline.

Shows all Special Folder location on your system.

Direct link here:
http://revonline2.runrev.com/stack/427/Special-Folders-Utility



Andy
 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n4.nabble.com/special-folders-tp331936p1475031.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: special folders

[David Glasgow]

On 31 Oct 2008, at 5:00 pm, Ken Ray wrote:



Right - in both cases, you can use specialFolderPath(35) and it  
will resolve

properly on both platforms.


Aha.  That is very helpful.  I had followed the link on the Rev  
dictionary page and found CSIDL_PROGRAM_FILES = 0x0026
which I hadn't appreciated is pure VB (?), I thought the numerical  
reference was a Windows thing, and represented what I would have to  
put in the parentheses in specialfolderpath ().  I just hadn't read  
properly your web page which clearly states Use the entry under the  
No. heading with specialFolderPath I also hadn't anticipated the  
simplicity of the syntax being the naked decimal number in parentheses.


That one example has no doubt saved me hours of fettling about.




Tiemo is right though - on both Vista and XP, the Application Data (or
ProgramData) folder is a hidden folder that novice users won't have  
changed.


That could be exactly what I want for my results stack.  I can see  
that lots of developers use it, presumable for data which are not  
preferences or user accessible products of the program.




The general rule of thumb is:

  - Applications go into C:/Program Files (XP) or C:/ 
Programs (Vista);

accessed with specialFolderPath(38)

  - Support files for the application that the user won't be  
getting access

to go in C:/Documents and Settings/user/Application Data (XP) or
C:/Users/user/AppData/Roaming (Vista); accessed with
specialFolderPath(26)


I would prefer not to save this stack on a per user basis, but have a  
single copy updated by all users.  Would it be OK just to refer to a  
via specialfolderpath(26) but just trim the path to refer to a folder  
sitting 'above' the /user/ folder?  If not, I think programdata  
might be the way to go.




  - User-generated or user-accessible files go in C:/Documents and
Settings/user/My Documents (XP) or C:/Users/user/ 
Documents (Vista);
accessed with specialFolderPath(documents) or specialFolderPath 
(5)


That's great, and I will save all my exported charts and whatnot to a  
user specific folder here.




  - Preferences/settings go in the Registry


Really helpful overall.  Thanks Ken et al.  The fog is clearing, and  
the red herrings are swimming off into the distance.


Best,

David Glasgow
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special folders

[David Glasgow]

I am attempting to make a rev project Vista compatible.  The main  
problem is determining where special folders are, and what they are  
best used for.  I want to store a stack which will hold assessment  
results for all users.  Thus there must be no permissions problems  
for any level of user to read from or write to this file.


Problems with OSX and specialfolderpath have been reported for a  
while on 2.9, and I am afraid it still gives me an 'execution error'  
using 3.0 on OSX both in IDE and application, whilst the same stack  
works fine as a standalone in XP.  A bit disappointing, but since the  
problem I am trying to fix is on Windows, not a disaster.


So, on Windows, I had expected to use the vanilla rev  
specialfolderpath syntax, but it seems to me I may need to use  
CDISLs, or can I just test that absolute paths to the appropriate  
folder exist as expected?


I had hoped to use C:documents and settings\all users\documents but  
this doesn't exist on Vista.


I can see that for XP most program data is stored in C:documents and  
settings\all users\application data


In Vista, this exists as a virtualised folder/shortcut which  
redirects to C:programdata


Neither directory is listed on the specialfolderpath page in the Rev  
guide.   For some users these folders are hidden, but I have tested  
read write privileges and that seems to be OK for ordinary users and  
even guests, whether or not the folder is visible.   Am I on the  
right lines with respect to the location?  Am I OK to use the XP form  
and rely on the Vista folder virtualisation, or do I need to write  
separate routines for the two OSs, and use CDISL numbers?


Alternatively, is there a better location for assessment results to  
be read from/written to?  I looked at the new 'public' folder in  
Vista, but it seems that by default this isn't public (or at least  
not on the machine I investigated), and has very confusing permissions.


Finally, what is the syntax for the CDISL version of specialfolder?   
I can't see an example, and using Rev Studio on Mac means it is very  
difficult to experiment.


OH, just had another thought.  I was exploring Vista Business.  Will  
this sort of thing vary in the other versions?


Thanks

David Glasgow
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Re: special folders

[Eric Chatonet]

Bonjour David,

You should have a look at Ken's tips:
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/file010.htm  
(specialFolderPath' Codes)
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/env007.htm (Vista  
Gotchas You Should Know About)


Le 30 oct. 08 à 13:02, David Glasgow a écrit :

I am attempting to make a rev project Vista compatible.  The main  
problem is determining where special folders are, and what they are  
best used for.  I want to store a stack which will hold assessment  
results for all users.  Thus there must be no permissions problems  
for any level of user to read from or write to this file.


Problems with OSX and specialfolderpath have been reported for a  
while on 2.9, and I am afraid it still gives me an 'execution  
error' using 3.0 on OSX both in IDE and application, whilst the  
same stack works fine as a standalone in XP.  A bit disappointing,  
but since the problem I am trying to fix is on Windows, not a  
disaster.


So, on Windows, I had expected to use the vanilla rev  
specialfolderpath syntax, but it seems to me I may need to use  
CDISLs, or can I just test that absolute paths to the appropriate  
folder exist as expected?


I had hoped to use C:documents and settings\all users\documents but  
this doesn't exist on Vista.


I can see that for XP most program data is stored in C:documents  
and settings\all users\application data


In Vista, this exists as a virtualised folder/shortcut which  
redirects to C:programdata


Neither directory is listed on the specialfolderpath page in the  
Rev guide.   For some users these folders are hidden, but I have  
tested read write privileges and that seems to be OK for ordinary  
users and even guests, whether or not the folder is visible.   Am I  
on the right lines with respect to the location?  Am I OK to use  
the XP form and rely on the Vista folder virtualisation, or do I  
need to write separate routines for the two OSs, and use CDISL  
numbers?


Alternatively, is there a better location for assessment results to  
be read from/written to?  I looked at the new 'public' folder in  
Vista, but it seems that by default this isn't public (or at least  
not on the machine I investigated), and has very confusing  
permissions.


Finally, what is the syntax for the CDISL version of  
specialfolder?  I can't see an example, and using Rev Studio on Mac  
means it is very difficult to experiment.


OH, just had another thought.  I was exploring Vista Business.   
Will this sort of thing vary in the other versions?


Thanks

David Glasgow


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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AW: special folders

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi David, there is one thing you also have to be aware of in Vista. With the
delivery settings of Vista the user dir /AppData is hidden. So if your user
should have access to what you are storing you either have to create a new
folder in the user dir or the user has to switch OFF the folder display
option don't show hidden folders (or whatever it is named in the English
version)
Just FYI
Tiemo

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Eric Chatonet
 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Oktober 2008 13:57
 An: How to use Revolution
 Betreff: Re: special folders
 
 Bonjour David,
 
 You should have a look at Ken's tips:
 http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/file010.htm
 (specialFolderPath' Codes)
 http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/env007.htm (Vista
 Gotchas You Should Know About)
 
 Le 30 oct. 08 à 13:02, David Glasgow a écrit :
 
  I am attempting to make a rev project Vista compatible.  The main
  problem is determining where special folders are, and what they are
  best used for.  I want to store a stack which will hold assessment
  results for all users.  Thus there must be no permissions problems
  for any level of user to read from or write to this file.
 
  Problems with OSX and specialfolderpath have been reported for a
  while on 2.9, and I am afraid it still gives me an 'execution
  error' using 3.0 on OSX both in IDE and application, whilst the
  same stack works fine as a standalone in XP.  A bit disappointing,
  but since the problem I am trying to fix is on Windows, not a
  disaster.
 
  So, on Windows, I had expected to use the vanilla rev
  specialfolderpath syntax, but it seems to me I may need to use
  CDISLs, or can I just test that absolute paths to the appropriate
  folder exist as expected?
 
  I had hoped to use C:documents and settings\all users\documents but
  this doesn't exist on Vista.
 
  I can see that for XP most program data is stored in C:documents
  and settings\all users\application data
 
  In Vista, this exists as a virtualised folder/shortcut which
  redirects to C:programdata
 
  Neither directory is listed on the specialfolderpath page in the
  Rev guide.   For some users these folders are hidden, but I have
  tested read write privileges and that seems to be OK for ordinary
  users and even guests, whether or not the folder is visible.   Am I
  on the right lines with respect to the location?  Am I OK to use
  the XP form and rely on the Vista folder virtualisation, or do I
  need to write separate routines for the two OSs, and use CDISL
  numbers?
 
  Alternatively, is there a better location for assessment results to
  be read from/written to?  I looked at the new 'public' folder in
  Vista, but it seems that by default this isn't public (or at least
  not on the machine I investigated), and has very confusing
  permissions.
 
  Finally, what is the syntax for the CDISL version of
  specialfolder?  I can't see an example, and using Rev Studio on Mac
  means it is very difficult to experiment.
 
  OH, just had another thought.  I was exploring Vista Business.
  Will this sort of thing vary in the other versions?
 
  Thanks
 
  David Glasgow
 
 Best regards from Paris,
 Eric Chatonet.
 
 Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 
 
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Re: special folders

[David Glasgow]

On 30 Oct 2008, at 5:00 pm, Eric Chatonet wrote:


From: Eric Chatonet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 October 2008 12:57:20 pm GMT
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: special folders
Reply-To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com


Bonjour David,

You should have a look at Ken's tips:
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/file010.htm  
(specialFolderPath' Codes)
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/env007.htm  
(Vista Gotchas You Should Know About)


Merci Eric,

I had  looked at those links previously.  Very informative, but they  
don't answer my specific questions.  Once I can identify the best  
folder to use, then I will be able to look up the details on Ken's  
remarkable table.



On 30 Oct 2008, at 5:00 pm,Tiemo wrote:


From: Tiemo Hollmann TB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 October 2008 1:30:18 pm GMT
To: 'How to use Revolution' use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: AW: special folders
Reply-To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com


Hi David, there is one thing you also have to be aware of in Vista.  
With the
delivery settings of Vista the user dir /AppData is hidden. So if  
your user
should have access to what you are storing you either have to  
create a new
folder in the user dir or the user has to switch OFF the folder  
display
option don't show hidden folders (or whatever it is named in the  
English

version)
Just FYI
Tiemo



Thanks Tiemo.  I am not too worried if a folder is hidden, as long as  
it can be accessed for read and write via the standalone.  For any  
files the user can access directly, I will use the documents folder.   
This is just for the app to access.


So, are C:documents and settings\all users\application data (XP) and  
C:/programdata (Vista) the best bets?


David
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Re: special folders

[Ken Ray]

 So, on Windows, I had expected to use the vanilla rev
 specialfolderpath syntax, but it seems to me I may need to use
 CDISLs, or can I just test that absolute paths to the appropriate
 folder exist as expected?
 
 I had hoped to use C:documents and settings\all users\documents but
 this doesn't exist on Vista.

When you use specialFolderPath(documents) on Windows, you get different
paths depending on which OS it is...

On XP, you get:

  C:/Documents and Settings/Ken/My Documents

On Vista, you get:

  C:/Users/Ken/Documents


 I can see that for XP most program data is stored in C:documents and
 settings\all users\application data
 
 In Vista, this exists as a virtualised folder/shortcut which
 redirects to C:programdata

Right - in both cases, you can use specialFolderPath(35) and it will resolve
properly on both platforms.

Tiemo is right though - on both Vista and XP, the Application Data (or
ProgramData) folder is a hidden folder that novice users won't have changed.

The general rule of thumb is:

  - Applications go into C:/Program Files (XP) or C:/Programs (Vista);
accessed with specialFolderPath(38)

  - Support files for the application that the user won't be getting access
to go in C:/Documents and Settings/user/Application Data (XP) or
C:/Users/user/AppData/Roaming (Vista); accessed with
specialFolderPath(26)

  - User-generated or user-accessible files go in C:/Documents and
Settings/user/My Documents (XP) or C:/Users/user/Documents (Vista);
accessed with specialFolderPath(documents) or specialFolderPath(5)

  - Preferences/settings go in the Registry

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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Re: special folders

[Sadhunathan Nadesan]

-2-  Does the ability to install an executable file to a particular folder not 
also mean that files in that folder are writeable?  For example, in a two-part 
executable plus writable stack architecture, if the install program places the 
loader (executable) into folder x, is it not guaranteed that I can write to the 
operational stack in that same folder?


Mark




Many thanks to everyone who replied to my post, loved the 'guidelines' 
and it was very educational!


I'm wondering the same as Mark. (which, apologies,  I have slightly 
edited his response to be my question, but I think it's the same question)


I guess the answer depends on if it is possible to have a directory that 
allows write permission, while files in the directory do not have write 
permission.  If this is possible, then I guess the answer is no.  I'm 
thinking it would be possible to do this on a Linux system (although it 
might take a bit of effort setting umask variables etc.) but I'm not 
really sure because I've never tried it.  I could check.






 


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Re: special folders

[Ken Ray]

On Thu, 03 May 2007 09:25:36 -0700, Sadhunathan Nadesan wrote:

 -2-  Does the ability to install an executable file to a particular 
 folder not also mean that files in that folder are writeable?  For 
 example, in a two-part executable plus writable stack architecture, 
 if the install program places the loader (executable) into folder x, 
 is it not guaranteed that I can write to the operational stack in 
 that same folder?
 
 I'm wondering the same as Mark. (which, apologies,  I have slightly 
 edited his response to be my question, but I think it's the same 
 question)

There's also the issue of what app's doing the installation - it is 
very common (esp. on Windows) for an installer to request authorization 
or  have a built-in method of elevating its permission level for the 
purpose of the installation - but that's different than when the 
installed program itself runs. So you might be able to install an 
executable to a folder and then not have the executable itself be able 
to write to the folder it's in.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
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Re: special folders - and Install Gadget

[Sadhunathan Nadesan]

There's also the issue of what app's doing the installation - it is 
very common (esp. on Windows) for an installer to request authorization 
or  have a built-in method of elevating its permission level for the 
purpose of the installation - but that's different than when the 
installed program itself runs. So you might be able to install an 
executable to a folder and then not have the executable itself be able 
to write to the folder it's in.



 



Good answer Ken!

We are using the _excellent_ InstallGadget tool - not sure what it may 
do with respect to elevating it's permission level  (perhaps the author 
will chime in here?) - but I do know that every time I turn around 
Windows Vista asks my permission for something.


Aloha
Sadhu
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special folders

[Sadhunathan Nadesan]

Greetings,

After reading the post below about the admin issues possible with 
specialFolderPath, I'd like to hear anyone expound on the justification 
for the use of 'special folders', if we have any pontiffs out there who 
advocate it.  Must be a good reason for it, yes?  Anyone care to 
enlighten me?  It's basically curiosity so feel free to ignore me also.


For example, in our case, we are providing a download of an executable 
for windows users which installs as normal in the program files 
directory. (Mac version, not sure where it goes).  However, a separate 
stack that can be written to is obscurely (some might say) squirreled 
away in a special folder - which turns out to be different on different 
versions of windoz.  For example, its under all users/application data 
(or something like that) on XP home and pro, and something like 
c:/ProgramData on Vista basic (at least mine).  The mac I'm not sure.  
Our code has a case statement to detect the type of OS and pick the 
right special folder. 

Why wouldn't we just put this stack in the same folder where we install 
the executable?


Wise ones, tell all!

Mahalo
Sadhu






 

Using the altsplash auto-load architecture, I have one user for whom the 
loader hangs.  His specialFolderPath(35) returns as


C:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Application Data

but he says he has no such folder, which leads me guess is that it is 
hidden and that its invisibility is preventing the write to or the read 
from the directory.
   



Yup.  It's real and it is hidden - however if the user does not have Admin 
rights he can't write there.   He needs to write to a folder belonging to 
him.


C:/Documents and Settings/Your Users Name/Application Data.

 

Is there something special I must do to make this directory usable if 
hidden?
   



You could instruct the user to elevate himself to an admin - while that will 
work it may also be against any policies they are subject to and therefore 
rendering security useless which probably is not a good idea.


Scott Kane
Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start
today and make a new ending. -- Maria Robinson 



 

 


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Re: special folders

[Peter T. Evensen]

Hello Sadhu,

The user folder is a common place for applications to install files.  
Users should have read/write access to it.  That may not be true for the 
rest of the local hard drive.  Schools, in particular, like to lock 
things down.  Using the user's application data folder lets 
administrators limit rights to the rest of the drive.


On the Mac, certain things are expected to go to certain places, like 
preferences.  The special folders allow you to get that folder.  In some 
cases, the folder might be on a network drive, allowing a person to log 
into any Mac and have all there settings.


I hope this helps.

Sadhunathan Nadesan wrote:

Greetings,

After reading the post below about the admin issues possible with 
specialFolderPath, I'd like to hear anyone expound on the 
justification for the use of 'special folders', if we have any 
pontiffs out there who advocate it.  Must be a good reason for it, 
yes?  Anyone care to enlighten me?  It's basically curiosity so feel 
free to ignore me also.


For example, in our case, we are providing a download of an executable 
for windows users which installs as normal in the program files 
directory. (Mac version, not sure where it goes).  However, a separate 
stack that can be written to is obscurely (some might say) squirreled 
away in a special folder - which turns out to be different on 
different versions of windoz.  For example, its under all 
users/application data (or something like that) on XP home and pro, 
and something like c:/ProgramData on Vista basic (at least mine).  The 
mac I'm not sure.  Our code has a case statement to detect the type of 
OS and pick the right special folder.
Why wouldn't we just put this stack in the same folder where we 
install the executable?


Wise ones, tell all!

Mahalo
Sadhu






 

Using the altsplash auto-load architecture, I have one user for whom 
the loader hangs.  His specialFolderPath(35) returns as


C:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Application Data

but he says he has no such folder, which leads me guess is that it 
is hidden and that its invisibility is preventing the write to or 
the read from the directory.
  


Yup.  It's real and it is hidden - however if the user does not have 
Admin rights he can't write there.   He needs to write to a folder 
belonging to him.


C:/Documents and Settings/Your Users Name/Application Data.

 

Is there something special I must do to make this directory usable 
if hidden?
  


You could instruct the user to elevate himself to an admin - while 
that will work it may also be against any policies they are subject 
to and therefore rendering security useless which probably is not a 
good idea.


Scott Kane
Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start
today and make a new ending. -- Maria Robinson

 

 


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Re: special folders

[Ken Ray]

On Wed, 02 May 2007 11:15:01 -0700, Sadhunathan Nadesan wrote:

 For example, in our case, we are providing a download of an 
 executable for windows users which installs as normal in the program 
 files directory. (Mac version, not sure where it goes).  However, a 
 separate stack that can be written to is obscurely (some might say) 
 squirreled away in a special folder - which turns out to be different 
 on different versions of windoz.  For example, its under all 
 users/application data (or something like that) on XP home and pro, 
 and something like c:/ProgramData on Vista basic (at least mine).  
 The mac I'm not sure.  Our code has a case statement to detect the 
 type of OS and pick the right special folder. 
 Why wouldn't we just put this stack in the same folder where we 
 install the executable?

Well, basically the issue is one of access rights; in a personal 
installation of Mac OS X or Windows, usually since there's only one 
user, it's likely that they will either be granted or grant themselves 
administration rights. In this case, it doesn't matter where you 
install the stack, since they'll have access anywhere.

However, in a corporate installation of Mac OS X or Windows, users 
are generally granted more limited rights (can only read files from 
certain directories, etc.). This becomes even more pronounced in Vista, 
btw. So if you installed a stack in the Program Files folder right next 
to the executable in Windows, and the user had limited rights, it is 
very likely that any changes made to that stack could not be saved 
(since the files would be read-only for that user).

There are a lot more examples, but you get the idea. So to develop for 
the widest possible distribution, you want to accommodate users of all 
levels, so the guidelines say that you should:

- Put the executable file in the Applications/Program Files/etc. folder
- Put files that the application uses, that usually won't be modified 
or need to be accessed by multiple users, and likely should not be seen 
(or not seen very often) by end users in an Application 
Support/Application Data/etc. folder
- Put files that *do* change, are user-specific, or hold user-generated 
data in the user's Documents/My Documents folder

It is therefore useful to use the specialFolderPath() function instead 
of hardcoding paths - especially when it comes to other languages. 
Although I don't know this for sure, it wouldn't surprise me to find 
out that certain folders are named differently in other localized OSes. 

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
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Re: special folders

[Richard Gaskin]

Ken Ray wrote:
It is therefore useful to use the specialFolderPath() function instead 
of hardcoding paths - especially when it comes to other languages. 
Although I don't know this for sure, it wouldn't surprise me to find 
out that certain folders are named differently in other localized OSes. 


One more reason:  things change.

For example, specialFolderPath(26) works great on both XP and Vista, but 
returns different values.  Woe be to the developer using hard-coded 
paths



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: special folders

[Mark E. Powell]

Two follow-ups...

-1-  Is it then an absolute that specialFolderPath(26) is writeable on Windows, 
regardless of personal vs. corporate configuration?  Even if the user has 'hide 
system folders' on?

-2-  Does the ability to download a file to a particular folder not also mean 
that that folder is writeable?  For example, in the two-part autoloader 
architecture, if the user places the loader is put into folder x, is it not 
guaranteed that I can write the operational stack to that same folder?

Mark


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Re: special folders

[Peter T. Evensen]

I don't think even 1 is true.  It is possible for administrators to lock 
even that folder.


If they can download a file to a particular folder, that would indicate 
it is writable.  I assume that the autoloader would need to stick 
around.   There are software packages that lock everything down and roll 
things back to a starting state when a user logs out (with the option of 
preserving some folders/files).


Mark E. Powell wrote:

Two follow-ups...

-1-  Is it then an absolute that specialFolderPath(26) is writeable on Windows, 
regardless of personal vs. corporate configuration?  Even if the user has 'hide 
system folders' on?

-2-  Does the ability to download a file to a particular folder not also mean 
that that folder is writeable?  For example, in the two-part autoloader 
architecture, if the user places the loader is put into folder x, is it not 
guaranteed that I can write the operational stack to that same folder?

Mark


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Re: special folders

[J. Landman Gay]

Ken Ray wrote:

There are a lot more examples, but you get the idea. So to develop for 
the widest possible distribution, you want to accommodate users of all 
levels, so the guidelines say that you should:


- Put the executable file in the Applications/Program Files/etc. folder
- Put files that the application uses, that usually won't be modified 
or need to be accessed by multiple users, and likely should not be seen 
(or not seen very often) by end users in an Application 
Support/Application Data/etc. folder
- Put files that *do* change, are user-specific, or hold user-generated 
data in the user's Documents/My Documents folder


Where would you put a file that the app itself needs to update, 
regardless of which user is running it? I've been putting that file into 
an all users/application data/myapp/ folder but if there are 
permissions problems with that, what then?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: special folders

[Jim Ault]

On 5/2/07 2:29 PM, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ken Ray wrote:
 It is therefore useful to use the specialFolderPath() function instead
 of hardcoding paths - especially when it comes to other languages.
 Although I don't know this for sure, it wouldn't surprise me to find
 out that certain folders are named differently in other localized OSes.
 
 One more reason:  things change.
 
 For example, specialFolderPath(26) works great on both XP and Vista, but
 returns different values.  Woe be to the developer using hard-coded
 paths
 
Does this mean that you should be using something like

repeat with x = 20 to 30
   if (specialFolderPath(x)  /) contains  /theFolderIwant/ then
  put x into kaching
  exit repeat
   end if
end repeat
put specialFolderPath(kaching) into fullPathThatIwant

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


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Re: special folders

[Ken Ray]

On Wed, 02 May 2007 18:38:01 -0500, J. Landman Gay wrote:

 Ken Ray wrote:
 
 There are a lot more examples, but you get the idea. So to develop 
 for the widest possible distribution, you want to accommodate users 
 of all levels, so the guidelines say that you should:
 
 - Put the executable file in the Applications/Program Files/etc. folder
 - Put files that the application uses, that usually won't be 
 modified or need to be accessed by multiple users, and likely should 
 not be seen (or not seen very often) by end users in an Application 
 Support/Application Data/etc. folder
 - Put files that *do* change, are user-specific, or hold 
 user-generated data in the user's Documents/My Documents folder
 
 Where would you put a file that the app itself needs to update, 
 regardless of which user is running it? I've been putting that file 
 into an all users/application data/myapp/ folder but if there are 
 permissions problems with that, what then?

Well, there's the rub - there isn't a simple answer. The problem is 
that for truly locked down users, the application itself would need 
to elevate its permissions to take actions that the currently logged-in 
user's permissions do not allow. OS X we can do with sudo and get 
authorization; Trevor just found a way to ask for authorization under 
Vista, but for other Windows flavors there isn't a solution for 
Revolution that's been made known.

What I've ended up needing to do is to request that Windows users get 
added to the Power Users group, which gives them some form of 
elevated access, but doesn't quite make them Administrators. However 
some companies won't even allow that...

If I find out a way to do it, I'll make a tip out of it and let 
everyone know...

:-)
 
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
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Re: special folders

[Bill Marriott]

The Application Data folder is hidden, but it *is* one of the locations that 
you can be sure even limited accounts can write to even on Vista.

Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Wed, 02 May 2007 18:38:01 -0500, J. Landman Gay wrote:

 Ken Ray wrote:

 There are a lot more examples, but you get the idea. So to develop
 for the widest possible distribution, you want to accommodate users
 of all levels, so the guidelines say that you should:

 - Put the executable file in the Applications/Program Files/etc. folder
 - Put files that the application uses, that usually won't be
 modified or need to be accessed by multiple users, and likely should
 not be seen (or not seen very often) by end users in an Application
 Support/Application Data/etc. folder
 - Put files that *do* change, are user-specific, or hold
 user-generated data in the user's Documents/My Documents folder

 Where would you put a file that the app itself needs to update,
 regardless of which user is running it? I've been putting that file
 into an all users/application data/myapp/ folder but if there are
 permissions problems with that, what then?

 Well, there's the rub - there isn't a simple answer. The problem is
 that for truly locked down users, the application itself would need
 to elevate its permissions to take actions that the currently logged-in
 user's permissions do not allow. OS X we can do with sudo and get
 authorization; Trevor just found a way to ask for authorization under
 Vista, but for other Windows flavors there isn't a solution for
 Revolution that's been made known.

 What I've ended up needing to do is to request that Windows users get
 added to the Power Users group, which gives them some form of
 elevated access, but doesn't quite make them Administrators. However
 some companies won't even allow that...

 If I find out a way to do it, I'll make a tip out of it and let
 everyone know...

 :-)

 Ken Ray
 Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
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 subscription preferences:
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