Re: Dynamic Graphs
Hi Mirko, this is in general the kind of approach I was suggesting, but looked at in a broader-perspective. I'd tend to avoid calling other tools such as Hive or Pig often to compute injections, as Giraph is still a batch-processing and this could really introduce latency and reduce throughput. I feel that if the injection of vertices and edges would really require such a complexity (such a computing them with M/R), then one could just create a pipeline of jobs. But this is only my superficial analysis/speculation, I can see your point on integration and your proposal is very interesting. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Mirko Kämpf mirko.kae...@cloudera.comwrote: Good morning Gentlemen, as far as I understand your thread you are talking about the same topic I was thinking and working some time. I work on a research project focused on evolution of networks and networks dynamics in networks of networks. My understanding of Marco's question is, that he needs to change node properties or even wants to add nodes to the graph while it is processed, right? With the WorkerContext we could construct a Connector to the outside world, not just for loading data from HDFS, which requires a preprocessing step for the data which has to be loaded also. I think about HBase often. All my nodes and edges live in HBase. From there it is quite easy to load new data based on a simple Scan or even if the WorkerContext triggers a Hive or Pig script, one can automatically reorganize or extract relevant new links / nodes which have to be added to the graph. Such an approach means, after n super steps of the Giraph layer an additional utility-step (triggered via WorkerContext, or any other better fitting class form Giraph - not sure jet there to start) is executed. Before such a step the state of the graph is persisted to allow fall back or resume. The utility-step can be a processing (MR, Mahout) or just a load (from HDFS, HBase) operation and it allows a kind of clocked data flow directly into a running Giraph application. I think this is a very important feature in Complex Systems research, as we have interacting layers which change in parallel. In this picture the Giraph steps are the steps of layer A, lets say something whats going on on top of a network and the utility-step expresses the changes in the underlying structure affecting the network it self but based on the data / properties of the second subsystem, e.g. the agents operating on top of the network. I created a tool, which worked like this - but not at scale - and it was at a time before Giraph. What do you think, is there a need for such a kind of extension in the Giraph world? Have a nice Sunday. Best wishes Mirko -- -- Mirko Kämpf *Trainer* @ Cloudera tel: +49 *176 20 63 51 99* skype: *kamir1604* mi...@cloudera.com On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com wrote: As I said, the injection of the new vertices/edges would have to be done manually, hence without any support of the infrastructure. I'd suggest you implement a WorkerContext class that supports the reading of a specific file with a specific format (under your control) from HDFS, and that is accessed by this particular special vertex (e.g. based on the vertex ID). Does this make sense? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Dear Mr. Martella, Once achieved the conditions for updating the vertex data base, what it the best way for the Injector Vertex to call an input reader again? I am able to access all the HDFS data, but I guess the vertex would need to have access to the input splits and also the vertex input format that I designate. Am I correct? Or there is a way that one can just ask Zookeeper to create new splits and distribute to the workers from given a path in DFS? Best Regards, Marco Lotz -- *From:* Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com *Sent:* 14 August 2013 15:25 *To:* user@giraph.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Dynamic Graphs Hi Marco, Giraph currently does not support that. One way of doing this would be by having a specific (pseudo-)vertex to act as the injector of the new vertices and edges For example, it would read a file from HDFS and call the mutable API during the computation, superstep after superstep. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, I would like to know if there is any form to use dynamic graphs with Giraph. By dynamic one can read graphs that may change while Giraph is computing/deliberating. The changes are in the input file and are not caused by the graph computation itself. Is there any way to analyse it using Giraph? If not, anyone has any idea/suggestion if it is possible to modify the framework in order to process it? Best Regards, Marco Lotz
Re: Dynamic Graphs
? I am able to access all the HDFS data, but I guess the vertex would need to have access to the input splits and also the vertex input format that I designate. Am I correct? Or there is a way that one can just ask Zookeeper to create new splits and distribute to the workers from given a path in DFS? Best Regards, Marco Lotz -- *From:* Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com *Sent:* 14 August 2013 15:25 *To:* user@giraph.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Dynamic Graphs Hi Marco, Giraph currently does not support that. One way of doing this would be by having a specific (pseudo-)vertex to act as the injector of the new vertices and edges For example, it would read a file from HDFS and call the mutable API during the computation, superstep after superstep. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, I would like to know if there is any form to use dynamic graphs with Giraph. By dynamic one can read graphs that may change while Giraph is computing/deliberating. The changes are in the input file and are not caused by the graph computation itself. Is there any way to analyse it using Giraph? If not, anyone has any idea/suggestion if it is possible to modify the framework in order to process it? Best Regards, Marco Lotz -- Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com -- Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com -- Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com -- -- Mirko Kämpf *Trainer* @ Cloudera tel: +49 *176 20 63 51 99* skype: *kamir1604* mi...@cloudera.com
RE: Dynamic Graphs
Hello all, Answering Mr. Kampf question: In my personal opinion this tool would be indeed really useful, since many of the real-world graphs are dynamic. I have just finished a report of my research in the subject. The report is available at: https://github.com/MarcoLotz/dynamicGraph/blob/master/LotzReport.pdf?raw=true There is a first application that can do this injection. I am working in the minor modifications that are proposed in the document right now. It is described in section 2.7 The previous sections just describes some experiences that I had with Giraph and an introduction to the scenario. Best Regards, Marco Lotz From: Mirko Kämpf mirko.kae...@cloudera.com Sent: 25 August 2013 07:55 To: user@giraph.apache.org Subject: Re: Dynamic Graphs Good morning Gentlemen, as far as I understand your thread you are talking about the same topic I was thinking and working some time. I work on a research project focused on evolution of networks and networks dynamics in networks of networks. My understanding of Marco's question is, that he needs to change node properties or even wants to add nodes to the graph while it is processed, right? With the WorkerContext we could construct a Connector to the outside world, not just for loading data from HDFS, which requires a preprocessing step for the data which has to be loaded also. I think about HBase often. All my nodes and edges live in HBase. From there it is quite easy to load new data based on a simple Scan or even if the WorkerContext triggers a Hive or Pig script, one can automatically reorganize or extract relevant new links / nodes which have to be added to the graph. Such an approach means, after n super steps of the Giraph layer an additional utility-step (triggered via WorkerContext, or any other better fitting class form Giraph - not sure jet there to start) is executed. Before such a step the state of the graph is persisted to allow fall back or resume. The utility-step can be a processing (MR, Mahout) or just a load (from HDFS, HBase) operation and it allows a kind of clocked data flow directly into a running Giraph application. I think this is a very important feature in Complex Systems research, as we have interacting layers which change in parallel. In this picture the Giraph steps are the steps of layer A, lets say something whats going on on top of a network and the utility-step expresses the changes in the underlying structure affecting the network it self but based on the data / properties of the second subsystem, e.g. the agents operating on top of the network. I created a tool, which worked like this - but not at scale - and it was at a time before Giraph. What do you think, is there a need for such a kind of extension in the Giraph world? Have a nice Sunday. Best wishes Mirko -- -- Mirko Kämpf Trainer @ Cloudera tel: +49 176 20 63 51 99 skype: kamir1604 mi...@cloudera.commailto:mi...@cloudera.com On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.commailto:claudio.marte...@gmail.com wrote: As I said, the injection of the new vertices/edges would have to be done manually, hence without any support of the infrastructure. I'd suggest you implement a WorkerContext class that supports the reading of a specific file with a specific format (under your control) from HDFS, and that is accessed by this particular special vertex (e.g. based on the vertex ID). Does this make sense? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.ukmailto:m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Dear Mr. Martella, Once achieved the conditions for updating the vertex data base, what it the best way for the Injector Vertex to call an input reader again? I am able to access all the HDFS data, but I guess the vertex would need to have access to the input splits and also the vertex input format that I designate. Am I correct? Or there is a way that one can just ask Zookeeper to create new splits and distribute to the workers from given a path in DFS? Best Regards, Marco Lotz From: Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.commailto:claudio.marte...@gmail.com Sent: 14 August 2013 15:25 To: user@giraph.apache.orgmailto:user@giraph.apache.org Subject: Re: Dynamic Graphs Hi Marco, Giraph currently does not support that. One way of doing this would be by having a specific (pseudo-)vertex to act as the injector of the new vertices and edges For example, it would read a file from HDFS and call the mutable API during the computation, superstep after superstep. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.ukmailto:m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, I would like to know if there is any form to use dynamic graphs with Giraph. By dynamic one can read graphs that may change while Giraph is computing/deliberating. The changes
RE: Dynamic Graphs
Dear Mr. Martella, Once achieved the conditions for updating the vertex data base, what it the best way for the Injector Vertex to call an input reader again? I am able to access all the HDFS data, but I guess the vertex would need to have access to the input splits and also the vertex input format that I designate. Am I correct? Or there is a way that one can just ask Zookeeper to create new splits and distribute to the workers from given a path in DFS? Best Regards, Marco Lotz From: Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com Sent: 14 August 2013 15:25 To: user@giraph.apache.org Subject: Re: Dynamic Graphs Hi Marco, Giraph currently does not support that. One way of doing this would be by having a specific (pseudo-)vertex to act as the injector of the new vertices and edges For example, it would read a file from HDFS and call the mutable API during the computation, superstep after superstep. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.ukmailto:m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, I would like to know if there is any form to use dynamic graphs with Giraph. By dynamic one can read graphs that may change while Giraph is computing/deliberating. The changes are in the input file and are not caused by the graph computation itself. Is there any way to analyse it using Giraph? If not, anyone has any idea/suggestion if it is possible to modify the framework in order to process it? Best Regards, Marco Lotz -- Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.commailto:claudio.marte...@gmail.com
Re: Dynamic Graphs
As I said, the injection of the new vertices/edges would have to be done manually, hence without any support of the infrastructure. I'd suggest you implement a WorkerContext class that supports the reading of a specific file with a specific format (under your control) from HDFS, and that is accessed by this particular special vertex (e.g. based on the vertex ID). Does this make sense? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Dear Mr. Martella, Once achieved the conditions for updating the vertex data base, what it the best way for the Injector Vertex to call an input reader again? I am able to access all the HDFS data, but I guess the vertex would need to have access to the input splits and also the vertex input format that I designate. Am I correct? Or there is a way that one can just ask Zookeeper to create new splits and distribute to the workers from given a path in DFS? Best Regards, Marco Lotz -- *From:* Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com *Sent:* 14 August 2013 15:25 *To:* user@giraph.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Dynamic Graphs Hi Marco, Giraph currently does not support that. One way of doing this would be by having a specific (pseudo-)vertex to act as the injector of the new vertices and edges For example, it would read a file from HDFS and call the mutable API during the computation, superstep after superstep. On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Marco Aurelio Barbosa Fagnani Lotz m.a.b.l...@stu12.qmul.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, I would like to know if there is any form to use dynamic graphs with Giraph. By dynamic one can read graphs that may change while Giraph is computing/deliberating. The changes are in the input file and are not caused by the graph computation itself. Is there any way to analyse it using Giraph? If not, anyone has any idea/suggestion if it is possible to modify the framework in order to process it? Best Regards, Marco Lotz -- Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com -- Claudio Martella claudio.marte...@gmail.com
