Re: Tomcat Manager installation
Hi, just finished tweaking https://jspwiki-wiki.apache.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Getting%20Started hope it's clearer now; edits/reviews/suggestions/whatever to make it simpler/easier welcome. regarding the log issue, it tends to happen when your tomcat is installed as an OS package, which sometimes does weird things like creating a user to start the container, but without write permissions on the server folder, which ultimately leds to things like the referenced JIRA issue. I think it's clearer now that those permissions are required.. br, juan pablo On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Paul Uszak wrote: > Thanks, I've read the bug report now. Exactly my problem. > > However, this speaks to a larger issue. How could something like this > possibly happen? It's like pressing RUN on the IDE, getting five screens of > stack trace errors and deciding that it's ready to ship never even having > seen the welcome screen. A significant percentage of (techie) users are on > *nix. If a cross platform product wants to be taken seriously, we can't > ignore 67% of the user base by only testing that it installs on Windows! > VMware and VirtualBox are your friends. Argh. > > Anyway, thanks again for your help. > > Ref. https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system/all > > > > > > > > On 19 November 2017 at 21:53, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < > juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Paul, > > > > that's a fair point, indeed you're probably referring to > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JSPWIKI-1051 which was fixed in > > 2.10.3-git-33, so anyone downloading 2.10.2 will probably step into the > > same problem. I'll try to reword the getting started guide his week to > make > > clearer the following points: > > > > - instead of telling to copy the war, talk about deploying the war, like > f. > > ex., copying the file or using the gui. Point out that there are other > ways > > of using JSPWiki, like the self-executable or the Docker image > > - signaling clearly which files / folders should be accesible by default > > (pages, attachments, logs and ehcache files, IIRC) > > - production-wise installations will probably need some degree of > > customization > > - as an additional tip, point out that you could also download and > compile > > from master, which usually contains more fixes/features and also works > > > > sounds reasonable? would that help out, or at least clarify things? Note > > that all these points are noted on the "customizing your installation" > > section which follows the "quick and simple install" section; although I > > realise it's easy to not read the former when you've stumbled into an > error > > on the latter.. > > > > > > thanks, > > juan pablo > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Rick Brockman > > > wrote: > > > > > Not too late as far as I'm concerned and I concur totally with Paul > > > Uszak...thanks to all ! > > > > > > On 2017-11-13 06:09, Paul Uszak wrote: > > > > > > > Well it's not too late to have the conversation :-) or is it :-( > > > > > > > >> The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than > performing a > > > >> normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. > > > > > > > > That's the problem. Non of this is defined. MY usual means is to > use > > > the > > > > manager application and deploy via the Tomcat GUI. So you navigate > to > > > > JSPWiki.war and it's uploaded, deployed and started. There is no > > concept > > > > of "having access". The access control thing is enabling you to use > > the > > > > manager in the first place. Tomcat then deploys it with > > tomcatX:tomcatX > > > > permissions. And tomcatX isn't even a proper user (can't log in). > > > > > > > > I think that the problem is with the default location of the wiki log > > > > files. Tomcat doesn't allow them to be created within it's context > > > > directory without changing it's permissions, or (prior to starting > the > > > > context) changing the location of the wiki's log files. And what > else? > > > > How is the automatic search index stored and where? So all this is > > beyond > > > > the normal deployment method. You have to realise that a web > > /application > > > > server looks differently to a developer than it does when it's in > > > > production mode. It's fine to run a local off grid web server as > > > root:root > > > > with 777 permissions everywhere when you're cutting code. It's > harder > > in > > > > production. And an application server is always going to be more > > > > complicated than a pure web server. > > > > > > > > This all makes the deployment not "simple". As soon as you have to > > invoke > > > > chown and vim it gets "hard", especially for non developers /non > > > > administrators. > > > > > > > > On 9 November 2017 at 20:48, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < > > > > juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Paul, > > > > > > > > as I've been mostly missing last month, I'm checking all related > > JSPWiki > > > >
Re: Tomcat Manager installation
Thanks, I've read the bug report now. Exactly my problem. However, this speaks to a larger issue. How could something like this possibly happen? It's like pressing RUN on the IDE, getting five screens of stack trace errors and deciding that it's ready to ship never even having seen the welcome screen. A significant percentage of (techie) users are on *nix. If a cross platform product wants to be taken seriously, we can't ignore 67% of the user base by only testing that it installs on Windows! VMware and VirtualBox are your friends. Argh. Anyway, thanks again for your help. Ref. https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system/all On 19 November 2017 at 21:53, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Paul, > > that's a fair point, indeed you're probably referring to > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JSPWIKI-1051 which was fixed in > 2.10.3-git-33, so anyone downloading 2.10.2 will probably step into the > same problem. I'll try to reword the getting started guide his week to make > clearer the following points: > > - instead of telling to copy the war, talk about deploying the war, like f. > ex., copying the file or using the gui. Point out that there are other ways > of using JSPWiki, like the self-executable or the Docker image > - signaling clearly which files / folders should be accesible by default > (pages, attachments, logs and ehcache files, IIRC) > - production-wise installations will probably need some degree of > customization > - as an additional tip, point out that you could also download and compile > from master, which usually contains more fixes/features and also works > > sounds reasonable? would that help out, or at least clarify things? Note > that all these points are noted on the "customizing your installation" > section which follows the "quick and simple install" section; although I > realise it's easy to not read the former when you've stumbled into an error > on the latter.. > > > thanks, > juan pablo > > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Rick Brockman > wrote: > > > Not too late as far as I'm concerned and I concur totally with Paul > > Uszak...thanks to all ! > > > > On 2017-11-13 06:09, Paul Uszak wrote: > > > > > Well it's not too late to have the conversation :-) or is it :-( > > > > > >> The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > > >> normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. > > > > > > That's the problem. Non of this is defined. MY usual means is to use > > the > > > manager application and deploy via the Tomcat GUI. So you navigate to > > > JSPWiki.war and it's uploaded, deployed and started. There is no > concept > > > of "having access". The access control thing is enabling you to use > the > > > manager in the first place. Tomcat then deploys it with > tomcatX:tomcatX > > > permissions. And tomcatX isn't even a proper user (can't log in). > > > > > > I think that the problem is with the default location of the wiki log > > > files. Tomcat doesn't allow them to be created within it's context > > > directory without changing it's permissions, or (prior to starting the > > > context) changing the location of the wiki's log files. And what else? > > > How is the automatic search index stored and where? So all this is > beyond > > > the normal deployment method. You have to realise that a web > /application > > > server looks differently to a developer than it does when it's in > > > production mode. It's fine to run a local off grid web server as > > root:root > > > with 777 permissions everywhere when you're cutting code. It's harder > in > > > production. And an application server is always going to be more > > > complicated than a pure web server. > > > > > > This all makes the deployment not "simple". As soon as you have to > invoke > > > chown and vim it gets "hard", especially for non developers /non > > > administrators. > > > > > > On 9 November 2017 at 20:48, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < > > > juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Paul, > > > > > > as I've been mostly missing last month, I'm checking all related > JSPWiki > > > mail, and I was wondering what kind of problems did you had performing > a > > > clean deploy of JSPWiki. It's probably too late to help, but at least > we > > > could document clearlier how to proceed in case of problems for > upcoming > > > users. > > > > > > The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > > > normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. As long as you have > > > enough permissions on your server/machine to do that, everything should > > go > > > fine. And if it doesn't, tomcat's logs (or whatever server you're > using) > > > should point out what is going wrong. There no need for anything else. > > This > > > obviously changes as soon as you have limited access to your > > > server/machine, but also in that case JSPWiki logs should point to > > whatever > > > is happeni
Re: Tomcat Manager installation
Hi Paul, that's a fair point, indeed you're probably referring to https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JSPWIKI-1051 which was fixed in 2.10.3-git-33, so anyone downloading 2.10.2 will probably step into the same problem. I'll try to reword the getting started guide his week to make clearer the following points: - instead of telling to copy the war, talk about deploying the war, like f. ex., copying the file or using the gui. Point out that there are other ways of using JSPWiki, like the self-executable or the Docker image - signaling clearly which files / folders should be accesible by default (pages, attachments, logs and ehcache files, IIRC) - production-wise installations will probably need some degree of customization - as an additional tip, point out that you could also download and compile from master, which usually contains more fixes/features and also works sounds reasonable? would that help out, or at least clarify things? Note that all these points are noted on the "customizing your installation" section which follows the "quick and simple install" section; although I realise it's easy to not read the former when you've stumbled into an error on the latter.. thanks, juan pablo On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Rick Brockman wrote: > Not too late as far as I'm concerned and I concur totally with Paul > Uszak...thanks to all ! > > On 2017-11-13 06:09, Paul Uszak wrote: > > > Well it's not too late to have the conversation :-) or is it :-( > > > >> The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > >> normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. > > > > That's the problem. Non of this is defined. MY usual means is to use > the > > manager application and deploy via the Tomcat GUI. So you navigate to > > JSPWiki.war and it's uploaded, deployed and started. There is no concept > > of "having access". The access control thing is enabling you to use the > > manager in the first place. Tomcat then deploys it with tomcatX:tomcatX > > permissions. And tomcatX isn't even a proper user (can't log in). > > > > I think that the problem is with the default location of the wiki log > > files. Tomcat doesn't allow them to be created within it's context > > directory without changing it's permissions, or (prior to starting the > > context) changing the location of the wiki's log files. And what else? > > How is the automatic search index stored and where? So all this is beyond > > the normal deployment method. You have to realise that a web /application > > server looks differently to a developer than it does when it's in > > production mode. It's fine to run a local off grid web server as > root:root > > with 777 permissions everywhere when you're cutting code. It's harder in > > production. And an application server is always going to be more > > complicated than a pure web server. > > > > This all makes the deployment not "simple". As soon as you have to invoke > > chown and vim it gets "hard", especially for non developers /non > > administrators. > > > > On 9 November 2017 at 20:48, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < > > juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Paul, > > > > as I've been mostly missing last month, I'm checking all related JSPWiki > > mail, and I was wondering what kind of problems did you had performing a > > clean deploy of JSPWiki. It's probably too late to help, but at least we > > could document clearlier how to proceed in case of problems for upcoming > > users. > > > > The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > > normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. As long as you have > > enough permissions on your server/machine to do that, everything should > go > > fine. And if it doesn't, tomcat's logs (or whatever server you're using) > > should point out what is going wrong. There no need for anything else. > This > > obviously changes as soon as you have limited access to your > > server/machine, but also in that case JSPWiki logs should point to > whatever > > is happening.. > > > > best regards, > > juan pablo > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Paul Uszak wrote: > > > > Further to recent "complexity" discussions, what is the protocol for > > installing JSPWiki via the Tomcat manager gui please? > > > > I followed the simple installation guide but it fails at step 3. I > > deployed the jar file with the gui and that was successful. A JSPWiki (I > > left the default name) directory appeared with all of the relevant files. > > Going to Install.jsp returns a 404 error unfortunately, but the context > is up and running.All of the files are owned by tomcat7 /tomcat7., and > > it's running on a high port. So I've fallen down at the first hurdle :-( > > I vaguely remember that all of the permissions have to be customised (or > > something). > > > > It's been a couple of years since I installed it last time, but I > remember that it took a while. The instructions don't seem to mention > anything > >
Re: Tomcat Manager installation
Not too late as far as I'm concerned and I concur totally with Paul Uszak...thanks to all ! On 2017-11-13 06:09, Paul Uszak wrote: > Well it's not too late to have the conversation :-) or is it :-( > >> The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a >> normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. > > That's the problem. Non of this is defined. MY usual means is to use the > manager application and deploy via the Tomcat GUI. So you navigate to > JSPWiki.war and it's uploaded, deployed and started. There is no concept > of "having access". The access control thing is enabling you to use the > manager in the first place. Tomcat then deploys it with tomcatX:tomcatX > permissions. And tomcatX isn't even a proper user (can't log in). > > I think that the problem is with the default location of the wiki log > files. Tomcat doesn't allow them to be created within it's context > directory without changing it's permissions, or (prior to starting the > context) changing the location of the wiki's log files. And what else? > How is the automatic search index stored and where? So all this is beyond > the normal deployment method. You have to realise that a web /application > server looks differently to a developer than it does when it's in > production mode. It's fine to run a local off grid web server as root:root > with 777 permissions everywhere when you're cutting code. It's harder in > production. And an application server is always going to be more > complicated than a pure web server. > > This all makes the deployment not "simple". As soon as you have to invoke > chown and vim it gets "hard", especially for non developers /non > administrators. > > On 9 November 2017 at 20:48, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < > juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > as I've been mostly missing last month, I'm checking all related JSPWiki > mail, and I was wondering what kind of problems did you had performing a > clean deploy of JSPWiki. It's probably too late to help, but at least we > could document clearlier how to proceed in case of problems for upcoming > users. > > The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. As long as you have > enough permissions on your server/machine to do that, everything should go > fine. And if it doesn't, tomcat's logs (or whatever server you're using) > should point out what is going wrong. There no need for anything else. This > obviously changes as soon as you have limited access to your > server/machine, but also in that case JSPWiki logs should point to whatever > is happening.. > > best regards, > juan pablo > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Paul Uszak wrote: > > Further to recent "complexity" discussions, what is the protocol for > installing JSPWiki via the Tomcat manager gui please? > > I followed the simple installation guide but it fails at step 3. I > deployed the jar file with the gui and that was successful. A JSPWiki (I > left the default name) directory appeared with all of the relevant files. > Going to Install.jsp returns a 404 error unfortunately, but the context is up > and running.All of the files are owned by tomcat7 /tomcat7., and > it's running on a high port. So I've fallen down at the first hurdle :-( > I vaguely remember that all of the permissions have to be customised (or > something). > > It's been a couple of years since I installed it last time, but I remember > that it took a while. The instructions don't seem to mention anything > about users /groups. All they say is that "I" need access to the tomcat > area. But I don't as that's what deployment does. What are the other > steps prior to navigating to "Install.jsp"? > > Thanks all. -- - _RICK BROCKMAN_ _28 LANCASTER ST._ _CHERRY VALLEY, NY 13320_ _607 434-4746_
Re: Tomcat Manager installation
Well it's not too late to have the conversation :-) or is it :-( > The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. That's the problem. Non of this is defined. MY usual means is to use the manager application and deploy via the Tomcat GUI. So you navigate to JSPWiki.war and it's uploaded, deployed and started. There is no concept of "having access". The access control thing is enabling you to use the manager in the first place. Tomcat then deploys it with tomcatX:tomcatX permissions. And tomcatX isn't even a proper user (can't log in). I think that the problem is with the default location of the wiki log files. Tomcat doesn't allow them to be created within it's context directory without changing it's permissions, or (prior to starting the context) changing the location of the wiki's log files. And what else? How is the automatic search index stored and where? So all this is beyond the normal deployment method. You have to realise that a web /application server looks differently to a developer than it does when it's in production mode. It's fine to run a local off grid web server as root:root with 777 permissions everywhere when you're cutting code. It's harder in production. And an application server is always going to be more complicated than a pure web server. This all makes the deployment not "simple". As soon as you have to invoke chown and vim it gets "hard", especially for non developers /non administrators. On 9 November 2017 at 20:48, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez < juanpablo.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Paul, > > as I've been mostly missing last month, I'm checking all related JSPWiki > mail, and I was wondering what kind of problems did you had performing a > clean deploy of JSPWiki. It's probably too late to help, but at least we > could document clearlier how to proceed in case of problems for upcoming > users. > > The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a > normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. As long as you have > enough permissions on your server/machine to do that, everything should go > fine. And if it doesn't, tomcat's logs (or whatever server you're using) > should point out what is going wrong. There no need for anything else. This > obviously changes as soon as you have limited access to your > server/machine, but also in that case JSPWiki logs should point to whatever > is happening.. > > > best regards, > juan pablo > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Paul Uszak wrote: > > > Further to recent "complexity" discussions, what is the protocol for > > installing JSPWiki via the Tomcat manager gui please? > > > > I followed the simple installation guide but it fails at step 3. I > > deployed the jar file with the gui and that was successful. A JSPWiki (I > > left the default name) directory appeared with all of the relevant files. > > Going to Install.jsp returns a 404 error unfortunately, but the context > is > > up and running.All of the files are owned by tomcat7 /tomcat7., and > > it's running on a high port. So I've fallen down at the first hurdle :-( > > I vaguely remember that all of the permissions have to be customised (or > > something). > > > > It's been a couple of years since I installed it last time, but I > remember > > that it took a while. The instructions don't seem to mention anything > > about users /groups. All they say is that "I" need access to the tomcat > > area. But I don't as that's what deployment does. What are the other > > steps prior to navigating to "Install.jsp"? > > > > Thanks all. > > >
Re: Tomcat Manager installation
Hi Paul, as I've been mostly missing last month, I'm checking all related JSPWiki mail, and I was wondering what kind of problems did you had performing a clean deploy of JSPWiki. It's probably too late to help, but at least we could document clearlier how to proceed in case of problems for upcoming users. The pre-Install.jsp step shouldn't be more difficult than performing a normal deploy of a war file, through usual means. As long as you have enough permissions on your server/machine to do that, everything should go fine. And if it doesn't, tomcat's logs (or whatever server you're using) should point out what is going wrong. There no need for anything else. This obviously changes as soon as you have limited access to your server/machine, but also in that case JSPWiki logs should point to whatever is happening.. best regards, juan pablo On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Paul Uszak wrote: > Further to recent "complexity" discussions, what is the protocol for > installing JSPWiki via the Tomcat manager gui please? > > I followed the simple installation guide but it fails at step 3. I > deployed the jar file with the gui and that was successful. A JSPWiki (I > left the default name) directory appeared with all of the relevant files. > Going to Install.jsp returns a 404 error unfortunately, but the context is > up and running.All of the files are owned by tomcat7 /tomcat7., and > it's running on a high port. So I've fallen down at the first hurdle :-( > I vaguely remember that all of the permissions have to be customised (or > something). > > It's been a couple of years since I installed it last time, but I remember > that it took a while. The instructions don't seem to mention anything > about users /groups. All they say is that "I" need access to the tomcat > area. But I don't as that's what deployment does. What are the other > steps prior to navigating to "Install.jsp"? > > Thanks all. >
Tomcat Manager installation
Further to recent "complexity" discussions, what is the protocol for installing JSPWiki via the Tomcat manager gui please? I followed the simple installation guide but it fails at step 3. I deployed the jar file with the gui and that was successful. A JSPWiki (I left the default name) directory appeared with all of the relevant files. Going to Install.jsp returns a 404 error unfortunately, but the context is up and running.All of the files are owned by tomcat7 /tomcat7., and it's running on a high port. So I've fallen down at the first hurdle :-( I vaguely remember that all of the permissions have to be customised (or something). It's been a couple of years since I installed it last time, but I remember that it took a while. The instructions don't seem to mention anything about users /groups. All they say is that "I" need access to the tomcat area. But I don't as that's what deployment does. What are the other steps prior to navigating to "Install.jsp"? Thanks all.