Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
BJ, Hans, Bruno, Thank you for your ideas and clarifications. I wonder, however, why the general application framework of OfBiz could be better than other Java EE open-source frameworks, such as Spring or JBoss ? I guess the real strength of OfBiz are its ERP applications, but I doubt if the whole gamut of ERP applications could be used in AAL. Could application framework of OfBiz compete with open source frameworks such as Spring or JBoss ? Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa Bruno Busco bruno.bu...@gmail.com wrote on 05/09/2010 04:30:01 PM: From: Bruno Busco bruno.bu...@gmail.com To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 05/09/2010 04:31 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic applications that allows to manage parties and contents. On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the user. The custom application can leverage all the features the framework offers. Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications can easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are not created. On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications contained in the Applications directory because the framework depends on them. We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used applications could be installed or even none of them. -Bruno 2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg vad...@il.ibm.com Hi Bruno, Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ? Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa From: Bruno Busco bruno.bu...@gmail.com To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 05/09/2010 03:06 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So lets talk about Ofbiz. You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the Screenlet. Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most of living but is primarily focused on business. Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen as recipes. I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can used in every aspect of our lives. So I would suggest: 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the project manager and get feel for what it does. 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: Hi BJ
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
short answer is implementation time, coding and maintenance effort. you talk about bloat, OO is very bloaty(sorry could not resist) here is a scenario: when you define an entity ofbiz updates the Database automatically (does not add or delete columns). when doing CRUD operation no coding is necessary. when adding services the minilanq save many Java operation and maintenance. you define a screen and the entity is updated, you don't have go back to the screen and modify screen. Also ofbiz as it stands is ERP capable, however I have some 50 applications that cover many different businesses models (education, food industry, film industry, Farming, flower shops, charters, airline ticketing, legal, to name a few). I have disabled many features of ofbiz since they are not needed. Hans has in the Trunk, a Travel/reservation demo. This does not use the ERP as such. The one short coming of ofbiz is the backend UI, it is not user friendly or intuitive. There is an ongoing process to fix this. I resolved this by using SWT that is linked to ofbiz. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/6/2010 9:08 AM: BJ, Hans, Bruno, Thank you for your ideas and clarifications. I wonder, however, why the general application framework of OfBiz could be better than other Java EE open-source frameworks, such as Spring or JBoss ? I guess the real strength of OfBiz are its ERP applications, but I doubt if the whole gamut of ERP applications could be used in AAL. Could application framework of OfBiz compete with open source frameworks such as Spring or JBoss ? Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa Bruno Buscobruno.bu...@gmail.com wrote on 05/09/2010 04:30:01 PM: From: Bruno Buscobruno.bu...@gmail.com To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 05/09/2010 04:31 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic applications that allows to manage parties and contents. On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the user. The custom application can leverage all the features the framework offers. Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications can easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are not created. On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications contained in the Applications directory because the framework depends on them. We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used applications could be installed or even none of them. -Bruno 2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenbergvad...@il.ibm.com Hi Bruno, Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ? Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa From: Bruno Buscobruno.bu...@gmail.com To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 05/09/2010 03:06 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So
Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So lets talk about Ofbiz. You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the Screenlet. Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most of living but is primarily focused on business. Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen as recipes. I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can used in every aspect of our lives. So I would suggest: 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the project manager and get feel for what it does. 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: Hi BJ, It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The idea is definitely interesting, though. Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: From: BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 04/09/2010 04:38 PM Subject: Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the framework. So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about page 393. You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity sensors were all that was available. I say this because of your focus. Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home automation with in the home. Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their home. this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all enclosed. you would use the network that automatically connects to other network nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems to interact with ofbiz. The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So lets talk about Ofbiz. You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the Screenlet. Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most of living but is primarily focused on business. Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen as recipes. I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can used in every aspect of our lives. So I would suggest: 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the project manager and get feel for what it does. 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: Hi BJ, It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The idea is definitely interesting, though. Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: From: BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 04/09/2010 04:38 PM Subject: Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the framework. So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about page 393. You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity sensors were all that was available. I say this because of your focus. Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home automation with in the home. Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their home. this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all enclosed. you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Hi Bruno, Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ? Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa From: Bruno Busco bruno.bu...@gmail.com To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 05/09/2010 03:06 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So lets talk about Ofbiz. You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the Screenlet. Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most of living but is primarily focused on business. Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen as recipes. I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can used in every aspect of our lives. So I would suggest: 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the project manager and get feel for what it does. 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: Hi BJ, It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The idea is definitely interesting, though. Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: From: BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 04/09/2010 04:38 PM Subject: Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the framework. So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about page 393. You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity sensors were all that was available. I say this because of your focus. Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic applications that allows to manage parties and contents. On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the user. The custom application can leverage all the features the framework offers. Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications can easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are not created. On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications contained in the Applications directory because the framework depends on them. We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used applications could be installed or even none of them. -Bruno 2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg vad...@il.ibm.com Hi Bruno, Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ? Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa From: Bruno Busco bruno.bu...@gmail.com To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 05/09/2010 03:06 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So lets talk about Ofbiz. You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the Screenlet. Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most of living but is primarily focused on business. Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen as recipes. I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can used in every aspect of our lives. So I would suggest: 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the project manager and get feel for what it does. 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: Hi BJ, It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The idea is definitely interesting, though. Best Regards, Vadim --- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: From: BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Date: 04/09/2010 04:38 PM Subject: Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application
