Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Lixin Chu]

Hi Erik,
thank you so much for your information. it really helps me go in the
right direction. i will do more homework on XMPP and Smack first.

really appreciate your help !
lixin

On 5/6/05, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> See my other post, please, if you are limited to using HTTP.
> 
> The modifications I made to Smack (1.4.2) are subtle, and the classes
> are pretty small, but they require some detail to explain properly. The
> library does work as is. It uses two threads -- one that parses incoming
> XML and dumps the generated objects into queues, another that actively
> polls queues and notifies your listeners. I found that in some cases
> where Smack expects you to use one model (active vs passive
> notification), you really would like to use the other. This led (I
> think) to a quote on the Web site that was something like "some
> developers find that the Chat class doesn't meet their needs, so they
> implement their own using PacketCollector, etc.". So I made some
> modifications and wrote a couple new classes related to that. I prefer
> to write my own queues and Runnables because you have more control that
> way. If you are not comfortable doing this, don't worry, their stuff
> works fine as is. You can just register listeners and away you go,
> updating your GUI in event handlers.
> 
> Yes, I would contribute my modifications, but first I need to document
> them (and also make sure they are still needed -- they update fairly
> regularly). I will share them with you either way if you go this route.
> 
> Erik
> 
> P.S. There are Applet chat systems out there that have been around for a
> long time. Don't forget to check those out. Also, there is at least one
> open source Swing client built on Smack that looks pretty good,
> especially in the area of SSL. See the Smack forums and you can find an
> announcement of it. Probably, there are JavaScript-based chat
> implementations out there too. If you are going to use JavaScript and
> have simple requirements, Leon's suggestion might fit the bill.
> 
> 
> Lixin Chu wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >I am also interested in integrating a chat engine with my Struts
> >application - with very similar requirements. In fact I posted a msg
> >here before checking this thread !
> >
> >I am not familar with any of the Sockets, ServerSockets, XML API or
> >Threads. So looks like building from scratch is not an option to me;
> >Smack sounds good, but with the problems you pointed out, I doubt if I
> >am able to handle them correctly.
> >
> >Would you contribute your modifcation back to Smack someday ?
> >
> >appreciate your info very much !
> >lixin
> >
> >On 5/5/05, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client and
> >>combined services over XMPP and HTTP.
> >>
> >>I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if you are good
> >>with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and Threads (find a good tutorial
> >>on building a chat system such as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
> >>There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you want
> >>something higher level, just get Smack from jivesoftware.com, which will
> >>give you an OO interface to Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from
> >>jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  is small, written in C and gets the job done
> >>for what you are talking about, so I would start with that. They are
> >>working on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.
> >>
> >>I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll get classes
> >>such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", etc.), there are some
> >>pitfalls related to Threading to watch out for. I rewrote about a half
> >>dozen of the core classes. Fortunately, Smack operates with just two
> >>main disptach Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader
> >>and XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.
> >>
> >>Erik
> >>
> >>
> >>masegui wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The requirements are these:
> >>>1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click a
> >>>button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The other
> >>>user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat room" is
> >>>opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2
> >>>people. We would like a user to be 

Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Erik Weber]

See my other post, please, if you are limited to using HTTP.
The modifications I made to Smack (1.4.2) are subtle, and the classes 
are pretty small, but they require some detail to explain properly. The 
library does work as is. It uses two threads -- one that parses incoming 
XML and dumps the generated objects into queues, another that actively 
polls queues and notifies your listeners. I found that in some cases 
where Smack expects you to use one model (active vs passive 
notification), you really would like to use the other. This led (I 
think) to a quote on the Web site that was something like "some 
developers find that the Chat class doesn't meet their needs, so they 
implement their own using PacketCollector, etc.". So I made some 
modifications and wrote a couple new classes related to that. I prefer 
to write my own queues and Runnables because you have more control that 
way. If you are not comfortable doing this, don't worry, their stuff 
works fine as is. You can just register listeners and away you go, 
updating your GUI in event handlers.

Yes, I would contribute my modifications, but first I need to document 
them (and also make sure they are still needed -- they update fairly 
regularly). I will share them with you either way if you go this route.

Erik
P.S. There are Applet chat systems out there that have been around for a 
long time. Don't forget to check those out. Also, there is at least one 
open source Swing client built on Smack that looks pretty good, 
especially in the area of SSL. See the Smack forums and you can find an 
announcement of it. Probably, there are JavaScript-based chat 
implementations out there too. If you are going to use JavaScript and 
have simple requirements, Leon's suggestion might fit the bill.


Lixin Chu wrote:
Hi,
I am also interested in integrating a chat engine with my Struts
application - with very similar requirements. In fact I posted a msg
here before checking this thread !
I am not familar with any of the Sockets, ServerSockets, XML API or
Threads. So looks like building from scratch is not an option to me;
Smack sounds good, but with the problems you pointed out, I doubt if I
am able to handle them correctly.
Would you contribute your modifcation back to Smack someday ?
appreciate your info very much !
lixin
On 5/5/05, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client and
combined services over XMPP and HTTP.
I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if you are good
with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and Threads (find a good tutorial
on building a chat system such as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you want
something higher level, just get Smack from jivesoftware.com, which will
give you an OO interface to Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from
jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  is small, written in C and gets the job done
for what you are talking about, so I would start with that. They are
working on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.
I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll get classes
such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", etc.), there are some
pitfalls related to Threading to watch out for. I rewrote about a half
dozen of the core classes. Fortunately, Smack operates with just two
main disptach Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader
and XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.
Erik
masegui wrote:
   

The requirements are these:
1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click a
button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The other
user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat room" is
opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2
people. We would like a user to be able to have several conversations at
a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.
Thanks in advance.
Miquel Angel Segui

 

<-Original Message----->
From: Leon Rosenberg
Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
To: user@struts.apache.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
   

messages
 

which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no
standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and
implement it by yourself.
I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, it's normally
about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing
system is.
maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the
system, so we could give you more specific answer.
regards
Leon
On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote:
   

We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java
 

1.4). One
 

of the requirements is 

Re: AW: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Erik Weber]

I keep forgetting what forum I'm in here -- I mostly use Swing, not HTML 
browsers, with Struts, etc. This makes it a lot easier for me to use 
whatever protocol I want for whichever service. If you are stuck using 
an HTML browser as your vehicle for a user interface for the messaging 
system, you could use an Applet. If you cannot use an Applet, you could 
still run a "pseudo client" on your Server and just let your browser 
poll for a view of the current state.

For example, you have a Servlet that has access to a Map of XMPP clients 
(your own class -- a client with no GUI -- assembled out of Smack 
classes or similar). Each key in the Map is set as an HttpSession 
attribute. Now you have one XMPP client per HTTP user. The client is 
logged into your XMPP server within the local network -- it is 
collecting packets, or sending packets, on behalf of the browser user. 
When the browser user submits a form to send a message, the Servlet 
looks up the right XMPP client and tells it to send the message. When 
the browser user polls for updates, the Servlet outputs the current 
state for that user (any new messages, any new presence updates, any new 
roster modifications, etc.). Now you have a true messaging system that 
can support any XMPP client, not just a browser adaptation. Maybe in the 
future you'll be able to use Swing, or there will be some HTML browser 
that also has an XMPP plugin (it won't come from Microsoft). Not sure 
what the J2EE police (or a TCP expert) would say about keeping sockets 
open within the confines of a Servlet container.

I suppose Leon is thinking in terms of doing something directly for the 
HTML browser, and doing it quickly. I am thinking in terms of using a 
system built for messaging, and then adapting it for a browser if you must.

For your situation, I cannot say which is the right approach. You'll 
have to judge for yourself. I would do my homework.

Erik

Erik Weber wrote:
XMPP and HTTP are nothing alike. XMPP is a stateful protocol and HTTP 
is a stateless protocol. XMPP pushes out alerts actively while with 
HTTP you have to poll when doing messaging. XMPP is all XML (and 
extendable) in addition. If you are going to use XMPP (and you should, 
instead of hacking a messaging system -- particularly a presence-aware 
system -- out of HTTP, which is called the HYPERTEXT TRANSFER PROTOCOL 
for a good reason), just get Smack. The guy who wrote the book you 
bought is from Jive Software, and they are the ones who develop Smack. 
You can get something going in a day or two with it. This is going to 
give you all the standard XMPP queries (give me my buddy list, add a 
contact, remove a contact, add a group, switch groups, query server 
for the list of all users, send message, tell everyone I'm online, 
away from my desk, etc., etc.) plus all the XMPP parsing and packet 
handling/collecting. Plus it gives you active and passive notification 
(like I said, they need a tad bit of help in their multithreaded 
programming -- I may submit a contribution to their source but I need 
to see what they've done in 1.5 first). Also it has built-in support 
for custom messages (via the XMPP "x" packet) -- you can use these for 
programming "actions", or for switching your GUI based on custom 
message types.

I suggested Sockets, ServerSockets, Threads and XML handling because 
you'll need those if you want to implement your own XMPP client and/or 
server. A library like Smack (there are others, but it's the best one 
I evaluated) handles all this and gives you objects instead.

Forget HTTP.
Erik

Leon Rosenberg wrote:
If you have to embed it in your site, and in your site only, forget 
about
sockets, xml and other "complicated" staff.

3 actions (getmessage, sendmessage, checkmessage) 2 html pages, a bit
javascript (for reloads) and 5-10 classes on the business logic will 
be enough.

Don't make things unneccessary complicated :-)
Regards
Leon
P.S. if you find that you need a more complicated solution in 6 
month, you
still can develop it then. Develop now things you need now, don't 
look for tomorrow :-) (X.P.)

 

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Miquel Angel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 
5. Mai 2005 08:36
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: RE: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

Erik, Leon and Jason, thank you very much for your answers.
I think we will develop our own system (we need a messaging system 
integrated with our system: our table of users, our forms, ...), but 
we have no experience with sockets, ServletSockets, Threats ...  We 
are goog developing business software (data base access, 
transactions, reports, ...)

I found a book that seems a good point to start : Instant messaging 
in Java:
The Jabber protocols
We are looking for a system to start to work with it (we expect to 
find it in that book).

One important requirement is t

Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Lixin Chu]

Hi,
I am also interested in integrating a chat engine with my Struts
application - with very similar requirements. In fact I posted a msg
here before checking this thread !

I am not familar with any of the Sockets, ServerSockets, XML API or
Threads. So looks like building from scratch is not an option to me;
Smack sounds good, but with the problems you pointed out, I doubt if I
am able to handle them correctly.

Would you contribute your modifcation back to Smack someday ?

appreciate your info very much !
lixin

On 5/5/05, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client and
> combined services over XMPP and HTTP.
> 
> I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if you are good
> with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and Threads (find a good tutorial
> on building a chat system such as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
> There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you want
> something higher level, just get Smack from jivesoftware.com, which will
> give you an OO interface to Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from
> jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  is small, written in C and gets the job done
> for what you are talking about, so I would start with that. They are
> working on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.
> 
> I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll get classes
> such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", etc.), there are some
> pitfalls related to Threading to watch out for. I rewrote about a half
> dozen of the core classes. Fortunately, Smack operates with just two
> main disptach Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader
> and XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> masegui wrote:
> 
> >The requirements are these:
> >1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click a
> >button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The other
> >user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat room" is
> >opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2
> >people. We would like a user to be able to have several conversations at
> >a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Miquel Angel Segui
> >
> >
> >
> >><-Original Message->
> >>From: Leon Rosenberg
> >>Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
> >>To: user@struts.apache.org
> >>Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> >>
> >>if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
> >>
> >>
> >messages
> >
> >
> >>which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no
> >>standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and
> >>implement it by yourself.
> >>I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, it's normally
> >>about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing
> >>system is.
> >>
> >>maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the
> >>system, so we could give you more specific answer.
> >>
> >>regards
> >>Leon
> >>
> >>On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java
> >>>
> >>>
> >1.4). One
> >
> >
> >>>of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for
> >>>
> >>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you
> >>>
> >>>
> >mind to
> >
> >
> >>>share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free
> >>>
> >>>
> >or non
> >
> >
> >>>free systems.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Thanks in advance.
> >>>
> >>>Miquel Angel Segui
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-
> >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>-
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: AW: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Erik Weber]

XMPP and HTTP are nothing alike. XMPP is a stateful protocol and HTTP is 
a stateless protocol. XMPP pushes out alerts actively while with HTTP 
you have to poll when doing messaging. XMPP is all XML (and extendable) 
in addition. If you are going to use XMPP (and you should, instead of 
hacking a messaging system -- particularly a presence-aware system -- 
out of HTTP, which is called the HYPERTEXT TRANSFER PROTOCOL for a good 
reason), just get Smack. The guy who wrote the book you bought is from 
Jive Software, and they are the ones who develop Smack. You can get 
something going in a day or two with it. This is going to give you all 
the standard XMPP queries (give me my buddy list, add a contact, remove 
a contact, add a group, switch groups, query server for the list of all 
users, send message, tell everyone I'm online, away from my desk, etc., 
etc.) plus all the XMPP parsing and packet handling/collecting. Plus it 
gives you active and passive notification (like I said, they need a tad 
bit of help in their multithreaded programming -- I may submit a 
contribution to their source but I need to see what they've done in 1.5 
first). Also it has built-in support for custom messages (via the XMPP 
"x" packet) -- you can use these for programming "actions", or for 
switching your GUI based on custom message types.

I suggested Sockets, ServerSockets, Threads and XML handling because 
you'll need those if you want to implement your own XMPP client and/or 
server. A library like Smack (there are others, but it's the best one I 
evaluated) handles all this and gives you objects instead.

Forget HTTP.
Erik

Leon Rosenberg wrote:
If you have to embed it in your site, and in your site only, forget about
sockets, xml and other "complicated" staff.
3 actions (getmessage, sendmessage, checkmessage) 2 html pages, a bit
javascript (for reloads) and 
5-10 classes on the business logic will be enough.

Don't make things unneccessary complicated :-)
Regards
Leon 

P.S. if you find that you need a more complicated solution in 6 month, you
still can develop it then. 
Develop now things you need now, don't look for tomorrow :-) (X.P.) 

 

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Miquel Angel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Mai 2005 08:36
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: RE: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

Erik, Leon and Jason, thank you very much for your answers.
I think we will develop our own system (we need a messaging 
system integrated with our system: our table of users, our 
forms, ...), but we have no experience with sockets, 
ServletSockets, Threats ...  We are goog developing business 
software (data base access, transactions, reports, ...)

I found a book that seems a good point to start : Instant 
messaging in Java:
The Jabber protocols
We are looking for a system to start to work with it (we 
expect to find it in that book).

One important requirement is that this software must run on 
Internet not only in a Intranet.

Yours, Miquel Angel Seguí
-Mensaje original-
De: Erik Weber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: 
miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2005 18:39
Para: Struts Users Mailing List
Asunto: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client 
and combined services over XMPP and HTTP.

I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if 
you are good with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and 
Threads (find a good tutorial on building a chat system such 
as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you 
want something higher level, just get Smack from 
jivesoftware.com, which will give you an OO interface to 
Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  
is small, written in C and gets the job done for what you are 
talking about, so I would start with that. They are working 
on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.

I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll 
get classes such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", 
etc.), there are some pitfalls related to Threading to watch 
out for. I rewrote about a half dozen of the core classes. 
Fortunately, Smack operates with just two main disptach 
Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader and 
XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.

Erik
masegui wrote:
   

The requirements are these:
1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He 
 

can click a 
   

button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. 
 

The other 
   

user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat 
 

room" is 
   

opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2 
people. We would like a user to be able to have several 
 

conversati

AW: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Leon Rosenberg]

If you have to embed it in your site, and in your site only, forget about
sockets, xml and other "complicated" staff.

3 actions (getmessage, sendmessage, checkmessage) 2 html pages, a bit
javascript (for reloads) and 
5-10 classes on the business logic will be enough.

Don't make things unneccessary complicated :-)

Regards
Leon 


P.S. if you find that you need a more complicated solution in 6 month, you
still can develop it then. 
Develop now things you need now, don't look for tomorrow :-) (X.P.) 


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Miquel Angel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Mai 2005 08:36
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> 
> Erik, Leon and Jason, thank you very much for your answers.
> 
> I think we will develop our own system (we need a messaging 
> system integrated with our system: our table of users, our 
> forms, ...), but we have no experience with sockets, 
> ServletSockets, Threats ...  We are goog developing business 
> software (data base access, transactions, reports, ...)
> 
> I found a book that seems a good point to start : Instant 
> messaging in Java:
> The Jabber protocols
> We are looking for a system to start to work with it (we 
> expect to find it in that book).
> 
> One important requirement is that this software must run on 
> Internet not only in a Intranet.
> 
> Yours, Miquel Angel Seguí
> 
> -Mensaje original-
> De: Erik Weber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: 
> miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2005 18:39
> Para: Struts Users Mailing List
> Asunto: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> 
> 
> I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client 
> and combined services over XMPP and HTTP.
> 
> I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if 
> you are good with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and 
> Threads (find a good tutorial on building a chat system such 
> as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
> There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you 
> want something higher level, just get Smack from 
> jivesoftware.com, which will give you an OO interface to 
> Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  
> is small, written in C and gets the job done for what you are 
> talking about, so I would start with that. They are working 
> on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.
> 
> I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll 
> get classes such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", 
> etc.), there are some pitfalls related to Threading to watch 
> out for. I rewrote about a half dozen of the core classes. 
> Fortunately, Smack operates with just two main disptach 
> Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader and 
> XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> masegui wrote:
> 
> >The requirements are these:
> >1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He 
> can click a 
> >button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. 
> The other 
> >user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat 
> room" is 
> >opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2 
> >people. We would like a user to be able to have several 
> conversations 
> >at a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Miquel Angel Segui
> >
> >
> >
> >><-Original Message->
> >>From: Leon Rosenberg
> >>Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
> >>To: user@struts.apache.org
> >>Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> >>
> >>if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
> >>
> >>
> >messages
> >
> >
> >>which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no 
> >>standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and 
> >>implement it by yourself.
> >>I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, 
> it's normally 
> >>about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing 
> >>system is.
> >>
> >>maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the 
> >>system, so we could give you more specific answer.
> >>
> >>regards
> >>Leon
> >>
> >>On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>We are developing an application (struts 

AW: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Leon Rosenberg]

If you have to embed it in your site, and in your site only, forget about
sockets, xml and other "complicated" staff.

3 actions (getmessage, sendmessage, checkmessage) 2 html pages, a bit
javascript (for reloads) and 
5-10 classes on the business logic will be enough.

Don't make things unneccessary complicated :-)

Regards
Leon 


P.S. if you find that you need a more complicated solution in 6 month, you
still can develop it then. 
Develop now things you need now, don't look for tomorrow :-) (X.P.) 


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Miquel Angel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Mai 2005 08:36
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> 
> Erik, Leon and Jason, thank you very much for your answers.
> 
> I think we will develop our own system (we need a messaging 
> system integrated with our system: our table of users, our 
> forms, ...), but we have no experience with sockets, 
> ServletSockets, Threats ...  We are goog developing business 
> software (data base access, transactions, reports, ...)
> 
> I found a book that seems a good point to start : Instant 
> messaging in Java:
> The Jabber protocols
> We are looking for a system to start to work with it (we 
> expect to find it in that book).
> 
> One important requirement is that this software must run on 
> Internet not only in a Intranet.
> 
> Yours, Miquel Angel Seguí
> 
> -Mensaje original-
> De: Erik Weber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: 
> miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2005 18:39
> Para: Struts Users Mailing List
> Asunto: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> 
> 
> I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client 
> and combined services over XMPP and HTTP.
> 
> I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if 
> you are good with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and 
> Threads (find a good tutorial on building a chat system such 
> as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
> There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you 
> want something higher level, just get Smack from 
> jivesoftware.com, which will give you an OO interface to 
> Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  
> is small, written in C and gets the job done for what you are 
> talking about, so I would start with that. They are working 
> on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.
> 
> I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll 
> get classes such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", 
> etc.), there are some pitfalls related to Threading to watch 
> out for. I rewrote about a half dozen of the core classes. 
> Fortunately, Smack operates with just two main disptach 
> Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader and 
> XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> masegui wrote:
> 
> >The requirements are these:
> >1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He 
> can click a 
> >button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. 
> The other 
> >user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat 
> room" is 
> >opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2 
> >people. We would like a user to be able to have several 
> conversations 
> >at a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Miquel Angel Segui
> >
> >
> >
> >><-Original Message->
> >>From: Leon Rosenberg
> >>Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
> >>To: user@struts.apache.org
> >>Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
> >>
> >>if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
> >>
> >>
> >messages
> >
> >
> >>which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no 
> >>standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and 
> >>implement it by yourself.
> >>I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, 
> it's normally 
> >>about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing 
> >>system is.
> >>
> >>maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the 
> >>system, so we could give you more specific answer.
> >>
> >>regards
> >>Leon
> >>
> >>On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>We are developing an application (struts 

RE: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Miquel Angel]

Erik, Leon and Jason, thank you very much for your answers.

I think we will develop our own system (we need a messaging system
integrated with our system: our table of users, our forms, ...), but we have
no experience with sockets, ServletSockets, Threats ...  We are goog
developing business software (data base access, transactions, reports, ...)

I found a book that seems a good point to start : Instant messaging in Java:
The Jabber protocols
We are looking for a system to start to work with it (we expect to find it
in that book).

One important requirement is that this software must run on Internet not
only in a Intranet.

Yours, Miquel Angel Seguí

-Mensaje original-
De: Erik Weber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2005 18:39
Para: Struts Users Mailing List
Asunto: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System


I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client and
combined services over XMPP and HTTP.

I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if you are good
with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and Threads (find a good tutorial
on building a chat system such as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java").
There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you want
something higher level, just get Smack from jivesoftware.com, which will
give you an OO interface to Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from
jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  is small, written in C and gets the job done
for what you are talking about, so I would start with that. They are
working on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.

I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll get classes
such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", etc.), there are some
pitfalls related to Threading to watch out for. I rewrote about a half
dozen of the core classes. Fortunately, Smack operates with just two
main disptach Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader
and XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.

Erik


masegui wrote:

>The requirements are these:
>1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click a
>button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The other
>user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat room" is
>opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2
>people. We would like a user to be able to have several conversations at
>a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Miquel Angel Segui
>
>
>
>><-Original Message->
>>From: Leon Rosenberg
>>Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
>>To: user@struts.apache.org
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
>>
>>if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
>>
>>
>messages
>
>
>>which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no
>>standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and
>>implement it by yourself.
>>I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, it's normally
>>about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing
>>system is.
>>
>>maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the
>>system, so we could give you more specific answer.
>>
>>regards
>>Leon
>>
>>On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java
>>>
>>>
>1.4). One
>
>
>>>of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you
>>>
>>>
>mind to
>
>
>>>share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free
>>>
>>>
>or non
>
>
>>>free systems.
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>Miquel Angel Segui
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>-
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>.
>>
>>
>
>
>

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RE: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Durham David R Jr Ctr 805 CSPTS/SCE]

> The requirements are these:
> 1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click 
> a button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The 
> other user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat 
> room" is opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms 
> only accept 2 people. We would like a user to be able to have 
> several conversations at a time, but each conversation only 
> between 2 people.

One thing you could do is use XMLHttpRequest and javascript to simulate
an instant message client in a web browser.



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Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Erik Weber]

I just finished putting together a system with a Swing client and 
combined services over XMPP and HTTP.

I think Leon's suggestion of doing your own is not bad, if you are good 
with Sockets, ServerSockets, XML APIs and Threads (find a good tutorial 
on building a chat system such as in the ubiquitous "Thinking in Java"). 
There is also JMS which gives you a low-level core. If you want 
something higher level, just get Smack from jivesoftware.com, which will 
give you an OO interface to Jabber (XMPP). Then get jabberd from 
jabber.org. jabberd 1.4  is small, written in C and gets the job done 
for what you are talking about, so I would start with that. They are 
working on the 2.0 "enterprise" version.

I will warn you that while Smack is a great library (you'll get classes 
such as "Chat", "Packet", "Message", "Presence", etc.), there are some 
pitfalls related to Threading to watch out for. I rewrote about a half 
dozen of the core classes. Fortunately, Smack operates with just two 
main disptach Threads so once you spend some time with the PacketReader 
and XMPPConnection classes, you'll figure it out. Apache license, too.

Erik
masegui wrote:
The requirements are these:
1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click a
button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The other
user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat room" is
opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2
people. We would like a user to be able to have several conversations at
a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.
Thanks in advance.
Miquel Angel Segui
 

<-Original Message-> 
From: Leon Rosenberg
Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
To: user@struts.apache.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
   

messages 
 

which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no 
standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and 
implement it by yourself. 
I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, it's normally 
about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing 
system is. 

maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the 
system, so we could give you more specific answer. 

regards 
Leon 

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote: 
   

We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java
 

1.4). One 
 

of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for
 

the 
 

users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you
 

mind to 
 

share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free
 

or non 
 

free systems. 

Thanks in advance. 

Miquel Angel Segui 


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. 
   

 

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Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[masegui]

The requirements are these:
1. A user has a list of the other users in the system. He can click a
button that initiates a conversation with the selected user. The other
user can accept or not the conversation. If accepts, a "chat room" is
opened and now then can have a conversation. The rooms only accept 2
people. We would like a user to be able to have several conversations at
a time, but each conversation only between 2 people.

Thanks in advance.

Miquel Angel Segui

><-Original Message-> 
>From: Leon Rosenberg
>Sent: 4/5/2005 10:50:38 AM
>To: user@struts.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System
>
>if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other
messages 
>which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no 
>standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and 
>implement it by yourself. 
>I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, it's normally 
>about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing 
>system is. 
>
>maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the 
>system, so we could give you more specific answer. 
>
>regards 
>Leon 
>
>On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote: 
>> We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java
1.4). One 
>> of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for
the 
>> users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you
mind to 
>> share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free
or non 
>> free systems. 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance. 
>> 
>> Miquel Angel Segui 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>- 
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>. 

Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Leon Rosenberg]

if your only functionality is to allow users to send each other messages
which are embedded in the site (html, or something, but no
standalone-desktop solutions) forget about existing systems and
implement it by yourself. 
I have implemented dozens of such systems over the time, it's normally
about 100 locs, much less effort than an integration of an existing
system is. 

maybe you could tell us a bit more, about the requirements of the
system, so we could give you more specific answer.

regards
Leon

On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 08:13 +0200, Miquel Angel wrote:
> We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java 1.4). One
> of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for the
> users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you mind to
> share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free or non
> free systems.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Miquel Angel Segui
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
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> 
> 



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Re: [OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Jason Lea]

Hi,
No experience in programming, only as a user.  Look at 
http://www.jabber.org/ - "the Jabber protocols are free, open, public, 
and easily understandable; in addition, multiple implementations exist 
for clients , servers 
, components 
, and code libraries 
."

Miquel Angel wrote:
We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java 1.4). One
of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for the
users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you mind to
share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free or non
free systems.
Thanks in advance.
Miquel Angel Segui

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--
Jason Lea

[OT] Recommendation of Instant Messagging System

[Miquel Angel]

We are developing an application (struts 1.1 + Tomcat 5.5 + Java 1.4). One
of the requirements is to implement an instant messaging system for the
users of the site (the system should not be very complex). Do you mind to
share your experience in using this system. We are looking for free or non
free systems.


Thanks in advance.

Miquel Angel Segui




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