Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with ==> RS to Vue!
At 01:19 AM 6/21/2006 +0100, you wrote: Hi Mark / List, "What comes to mind first is: is it possible to export .obj from RS with textures (texturing done in RS)??" YES - in a word. I exported OBJs from RS to Messiah with textures - isssh :) - Thanks to Matthias. [.] Hi Aidan, Nice to know! Although I have/use neither Messiah or LW it's good to know there's a workaround. Long live the .obj plugin: RS would be a lot more isolated without it! A more direct way would be better though - I don't want to have to buy big software like LW or Max just for import/export. The textures / materials editor AND the Terrain Editor AND the Plant Editor in VUE are great though for an outdoor type look - walls, rocks, plants etc. As i stated in the previous mail - RSes OBJ exporter is a saviour here as setting it up properly can give you the smoothed SDS surfaces you created in RS and separated mesh components in an app like VUE for later texturing. Here is a further render with more objects in my alley scene: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue4.jpg In VUE this Scene has 358,872 Polygons and takes 15 minutes to render including the GI and env map behind. Nice experiment! Is the environment HDR? Rendering quality is pretty 'blobby' though - like a RS render with too low Raycount and not enough blur. I bet a really good VUE render would take an hour or more - good news to a RS hermit ;) And: RS isn't too bad at rendering high polygon scenes; I have more trouble with the *editing* of scenes containing them! Every action is delayed to a point that it's becoming unbearably slow. Workaround: add the high poly objects at the last moment, after the editing of the rest, and then render the projects. The main reason to move the Street Scene to VUE was the 3D Vegetation which I wish to add. But I also love the idea of using / interchanging between different apps to get the best out of each. Cheers Aidan I'm now working on an outdoor architectural project with a garden: some older RS tree scenes revisited... deadline: one day left. No time to learn Vue so I'll have to fall back to RS again, it can handle a few plants ;) more to follow, -Mark H
Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with ==> RS to Vue!
Hi Mark / List, "What comes to mind first is: is it possible to export .obj from RS with textures (texturing done in RS)??" YES - in a word. I exported OBJs from RS to Messiah with textures - isssh :) - Thanks to Matthias. One cannot actually export the Texture itself - say if its VSL or whatever. BUT, in messiah you end up getting an import from RS that marks out the face groups associated with each texture applied. At least with this you can re setup the texture in the other app - say Messiah and apply accordingly. I have not tried yet from RS ==> VUE, but I have no doubt it will at least work as above if not better - hopefully :) By the way from LW to VUE and back keeps the LW UV and textures and even updates in Vue if the textures changed in LW. The textures / materials editor AND the Terrain Editor AND the Plant Editor in VUE are great though for an outdoor type look - walls, rocks, plants etc. As i stated in the previous mail - RSes OBJ exporter is a saviour here as setting it up properly can give you the smoothed SDS surfaces you created in RS and separated mesh components in an app like VUE for later texturing. Here is a further render with more objects in my alley scene: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue4.jpg In VUE this Scene has 358,872 Polygons and takes 15 minutes to render including the GI and env map behind. The main reason to move the Street Scene to VUE was the 3D Vegetation which I wish to add. But I also love the idea of using / interchanging between different apps to get the best out of each. Cheers Aidan At 23:05 20/06/2006, you wrote: At 01:30 PM 6/20/2006 +0100, you wrote: Hi Frank, No prob. These terrains were only fast obj outputs from Vue Infinite Terrain Editor. Mess around with the scale factor in the RS File / Import / OBJ option box - I set the scale factor to 0.008. All was well. Relating to a previous mail from Mark on this. I tried bringing in more complex objs with more outcrops and less smooth type real mountain features, but RS croaked at the mesh size from Vue. Somehow Vue can handle massive poly counts with relative ease. Hi Aidan, list, You didn't try to render high-density meshes in Smooth mode, did you? That'll bring RS down to its knees ;) On the other hand, phong-shaded poly mode can handle pretty big meshes (26 points routinely). But no displacement. At the moment I decided to try the opposite direction - models from RS to Vue using OBJ and the "Export Object Hierarchy" option ticked. This created an OBJ file that imported into VUE with separate parts for texturing in Vue. AND by ticking the "SDS Objects to Triangles" - I ended up with smooth rounded edges in Vue also - on arches etc. Here are a few quick test pics: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue.jpg Note the poly shaped arches - without "SDS Objects to Triangles" ticked when exporting http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue2.jpg No more poly arches, nice and rounded. This - once the mesh was exported from RS with "SDS Objects to Triangles" Hey, that's interesting. What comes to mind first is: is it possible to export .obj from RS with textures (texturing done in RS)?? http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue3.jpg Here I added a tree in Vue - not scaled properly All these are just tests. The foreground street with arches on left and further back is from RS: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/street2b.jpg The top three VUE Street scenes are using basic GI Render in Vue, Funny: a similar blobbiness is visible that you can sometimes see in RS GI renders when raycount is low. I wonder how RS would manage rendering the same scene in GI. It would probably have trouble with the plant. AND - before anyone says this - YES I know one could do all this in RS ONLY. But VUE is a SPECIALIST app for terrains and vegetation AND handles high veg poly counts with ease. I find nothing wrong with having RS talking with other apps or visa versa. Especially where specialist areas are involved. If an external tool does it better or faster - so what. A workmans toolbox contains more than one screwdriver type :) Cheers Aidan Ageed 100%. Why not make use of the best areas of both programs; it doesn't make either of them obsolete - on the contrary! Vue is user-friendly and yet deep software, something you don't often see. Great rendering of outdoor scenes. With its own limitations and weaknesses of course. They did a great job with their demo reel but of course they don't mention the render times, blood sweat & tears that went into it :) RS V6 will have much better plant handling than V5 (see the animation on the RS site), but I have no idea how long we'll have to wait for that... cheers, Mark H
Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with ==> RS to Vue!
At 01:30 PM 6/20/2006 +0100, you wrote: Hi Frank, No prob. These terrains were only fast obj outputs from Vue Infinite Terrain Editor. Mess around with the scale factor in the RS File / Import / OBJ option box - I set the scale factor to 0.008. All was well. Relating to a previous mail from Mark on this. I tried bringing in more complex objs with more outcrops and less smooth type real mountain features, but RS croaked at the mesh size from Vue. Somehow Vue can handle massive poly counts with relative ease. Hi Aidan, list, You didn't try to render high-density meshes in Smooth mode, did you? That'll bring RS down to its knees ;) On the other hand, phong-shaded poly mode can handle pretty big meshes (26 points routinely). But no displacement. At the moment I decided to try the opposite direction - models from RS to Vue using OBJ and the "Export Object Hierarchy" option ticked. This created an OBJ file that imported into VUE with separate parts for texturing in Vue. AND by ticking the "SDS Objects to Triangles" - I ended up with smooth rounded edges in Vue also - on arches etc. Here are a few quick test pics: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue.jpg Note the poly shaped arches - without "SDS Objects to Triangles" ticked when exporting http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue2.jpg No more poly arches, nice and rounded. This - once the mesh was exported from RS with "SDS Objects to Triangles" Hey, that's interesting. What comes to mind first is: is it possible to export .obj from RS with textures (texturing done in RS)?? http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue3.jpg Here I added a tree in Vue - not scaled properly All these are just tests. The foreground street with arches on left and further back is from RS: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/street2b.jpg The top three VUE Street scenes are using basic GI Render in Vue, Funny: a similar blobbiness is visible that you can sometimes see in RS GI renders when raycount is low. I wonder how RS would manage rendering the same scene in GI. It would probably have trouble with the plant. AND - before anyone says this - YES I know one could do all this in RS ONLY. But VUE is a SPECIALIST app for terrains and vegetation AND handles high veg poly counts with ease. I find nothing wrong with having RS talking with other apps or visa versa. Especially where specialist areas are involved. If an external tool does it better or faster - so what. A workmans toolbox contains more than one screwdriver type :) Cheers Aidan Ageed 100%. Why not make use of the best areas of both programs; it doesn't make either of them obsolete - on the contrary! Vue is user-friendly and yet deep software, something you don't often see. Great rendering of outdoor scenes. With its own limitations and weaknesses of course. They did a great job with their demo reel but of course they don't mention the render times, blood sweat & tears that went into it :) RS V6 will have much better plant handling than V5 (see the animation on the RS site), but I have no idea how long we'll have to wait for that... cheers, Mark H
Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with ==> RS to Vue!
Hi Frank, No prob. These terrains were only fast obj outputs from Vue Infinite Terrain Editor. Mess around with the scale factor in the RS File / Import / OBJ option box - I set the scale factor to 0.008. All was well. Relating to a previous mail from Mark on this. I tried bringing in more complex objs with more outcrops and less smooth type real mountain features, but RS croaked at the mesh size from Vue. Somehow Vue can handle massive poly counts with relative ease. At the moment I decided to try the opposite direction - models from RS to Vue using OBJ and the "Export Object Hierarchy" option ticked. This created an OBJ file that imported into VUE with separate parts for texturing in Vue. AND by ticking the "SDS Objects to Triangles" - I ended up with smooth rounded edges in Vue also - on arches etc. Here are a few quick test pics: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue.jpg Note the poly shaped arches - without "SDS Objects to Triangles" ticked when exporting http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue2.jpg No more poly arches, nice and rounded. This - once the mesh was exported from RS with "SDS Objects to Triangles" http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/streetvue3.jpg Here I added a tree in Vue - not scaled properly All these are just tests. The foreground street with arches on left and further back is from RS: http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/street2b.jpg The top three VUE Street scenes are using basic GI Render in Vue, AND - before anyone says this - YES I know one could do all this in RS ONLY. But VUE is a SPECIALIST app for terrains and vegetation AND handles high veg poly counts with ease. I find nothing wrong with having RS talking with other apps or visa versa. Especially where specialist areas are involved. If an external tool does it better or faster - so what. A workmans toolbox contains more than one screwdriver type :) Cheers Aidan At 12:41 20/06/2006, you wrote: Dear Adrian, first of all, thank you for the very nice landscapes :-) / What is the scale factor to import this file into realsoft? I have done some new experience with importing *.obj and other import files into realsoft, but whithout the right scale factor, for example your landscapes :-) / In Lightwave or Cinema it's impossible without any problems, but I have got a very big import picture for realsoft, it looks like an alien space ship ;-) / Dummy question: There there any other import possibilities for terrains and landscapes (terragen, vue, xfrog) than the "import" function they are working perfectly with realsoft? Thanks again for the beautiful pictures, Frank Brübach Von: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Gesendet: 16.06.06 13:05:03 An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with Hi Guys, Heres a quick contribution to this Landscape topic - 3 quick OBJ Terrain exports from VUE Infinite. I tried these at various Poly amount exports. At a few 1000 polys - when imported into RS - the app slowed to an unusable state. Worse when rendering. In Vue, terrain export I kept lowering the poly amounts until I found that the "Number of polys exported" set to 1310 seemed to be an amount that RS was happy with. A balance between complexity and size: http://www.tidalsound.com/3dstuff/terrains.zip [ 71k ] In the zip file are three objs [ I use RS v 5, so did the objs so as all could load them regardless of RS version, I hope .. ] Unzip, open new file in RS. In the select window on the left [ default environment ] under the Geometric Objects tab [ first tab ], right click and Paste from a file, then select one of the three terrains that you just unzipped and Open. It should appear in your view window. Before anything else - select the mesh, go to the Methods Menu up top, Sub Division Surface and Merge Triangles to Quadrangles. This Un triangulates Vues exported mesh to quads [ 4 sided polys ]. Now [ with the mesh still selected ] - Click and hold the right mouse button, drag down and select Smooth from the "compass type menu" that appears - this gets rid of the poly look, smooths the mesh. Now render. Bring all three objs into the above project and try texturing etc. I think - even at 1310 polys and smooth mode, the terrains look refined enough and useable without causing RS to struggle. AND my explanation above is as close to a dummies guide to include all, ignore the above RS guru's :) Cheers Aidan At 09:35 16/06/2006, you wrote: >Hi Mark.. > >That looks really cool..! > >My imagination might be abit too far out.. but I can almost imagine an >ultra cool minigolf course...! > >Will be very intresting to see more of your work on this..landscapeshader >and so on..! > >Thx for sharing..! >Its very inspiring.. > >Take Care >Best Regards >Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner ) >A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. > >> >>
Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with
Dear Adrian, first of all, thank you for the very nice landscapes :-) / What is the scale factor to import this file into realsoft? I have done some new experience with importing *.obj and other import files into realsoft, but whithout the right scale factor, for example your landscapes :-) / In Lightwave or Cinema it's impossible without any problems, but I have got a very big import picture for realsoft, it looks like an alien space ship ;-) / Dummy question: There there any other import possibilities for terrains and landscapes (terragen, vue, xfrog) than the "import" function they are working perfectly with realsoft?Thanks again for the beautiful pictures, Frank BrübachVon: user-list@light.realsoft3d.comGesendet: 16.06.06 13:05:03An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.comBetreff: Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play withHi Guys,Heres a quick contribution to this Landscape topic - 3 quick OBJ Terrain exports from VUE Infinite. I tried these at various Poly amount exports. At a few 1000 polys - when imported into RS - the app slowed to an unusable state. Worse when rendering. In Vue, terrain export I kept lowering the poly amounts until I found that the "Number of polys exported" set to 1310 seemed to be an amount that RS was happy with. A balance between complexity and size:http://www.tidalsound.com/3dstuff/terrains.zip [ 71k ]In the zip file are three objs [ I use RS v 5, so did the objs so as all could load them regardless of RS version, I hope .. ]Unzip, open new file in RS. In the select window on the left [ default environment ] under the Geometric Objects tab [ first tab ], right click and Paste from a file, then select one of the three terrains that you just unzipped and Open. It should appear in your view window. Before anything else - select the mesh, go to the Methods Menu up top, Sub Division Surface and Merge Triangles to Quadrangles. This Un triangulates Vues exported mesh to quads [ 4 sided polys ]. Now [ with the mesh still selected ] - Click and hold the right mouse button, drag down and select Smooth from the "compass type menu" that appears - this gets rid of the poly look, smooths the mesh. Now render.Bring all three objs into the above project and try texturing etc.I think - even at 1310 polys and smooth mode, the terrains look refined enough and useable without causing RS to struggle. AND my explanation above is as close to a dummies guide to include all, ignore the above RS guru's :)CheersAidanAt 09:35 16/06/2006, you wrote:>Hi Mark..>>That looks really cool..!>>My imagination might be abit too far out.. but I can almost imagine an >ultra cool minigolf course...!>>Will be very intresting to see more of your work on this..landscapeshader >and so on..!>>Thx for sharing..!>Its very inspiring..>>Take Care>Best Regards>Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )>A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D..>>>>>>>>>I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the >>>progress bar ;)>>>>>>That was too optimistic, but there it finally is:>>http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg>>Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected.>>>>more to follow,>>Mark>>>>>>Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=0071
Re: landscape and Scope material was Re: OT Inspiration
At 05:03 AM 6/16/2006 -0400, you wrote: OK , I'll bite that hook (grin) : You start by talking about render times . I didn't mention render times . Granted . TG2 will of course be tweaked for very fast renders . Maybe it would be an interesting challenge to duplicate this in RS, or something like it. I bet it wouldn't be easy ;) Hm, it's a nice picture but I hardly call this a landscape - it's one tree and some (very nice) rocks. You mention stair-stepping . That is not an issue , depending on your terrain import source and it's ability to export advan- ced options . You're right: as long as the data pipeline remains at 16-bit or better there's hardly a step problem. I use HDR for displacement textures. Here's an old example project: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/HDRdisplacement.zip To clarify my point , the render is very plain , mostly , with the accent being on the 3D Xfrog tree . The surrounding terrain is not that challenging . The 3D Xfrog tree is being showcased as well as TG2's ability to light a scene properly . Trust me . It's not that much of an advancement , in my opinion , of course . Clouds are a totally different issue . I bow to S/W's like TG and Hypervoxel enabled efforts . Yes, clouds remain a challenge, the volumetrics are slow, but nevertheless I often use it. Never trust a quick render ;) Thanks very much for your reply . studio Yes, interesting points of view. I know RS isn't the ideal landscape tool but I just like to stretch it once in a while ;) (and my patience) Besides that, I think RS's great raytracing render quality is a bonus for landscapes. V6 will take it a big step further! my 2 cts, Mark H
Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with
At 12:05 PM 6/16/2006 +0100, you wrote: Hi Guys, Heres a quick contribution to this Landscape topic - 3 quick OBJ Terrain exports from VUE Infinite. I tried these at various Poly amount exports. At a few 1000 polys - when imported into RS - the app slowed to an unusable state. Worse when rendering. In Vue, terrain export I kept lowering the poly amounts until I found that the "Number of polys exported" set to 1310 seemed to be an amount that RS was happy with. A balance between complexity and size: http://www.tidalsound.com/3dstuff/terrains.zip [ 71k ] In the zip file are three objs [ I use RS v 5, so did the objs so as all could load them regardless of RS version, I hope .. ] Hi Aidan, Thanks for the contribution! Personally, I find smooth meshes too smooth for landscapes... they have no rough edges or ridges. But displacement can fix this. You can use these smooth meshes combined with matching high-res textures to add a little displacement. cheers, Mark
Re: OT Inspiration - a few terrains for all to play with
Hi Guys, Heres a quick contribution to this Landscape topic - 3 quick OBJ Terrain exports from VUE Infinite. I tried these at various Poly amount exports. At a few 1000 polys - when imported into RS - the app slowed to an unusable state. Worse when rendering. In Vue, terrain export I kept lowering the poly amounts until I found that the "Number of polys exported" set to 1310 seemed to be an amount that RS was happy with. A balance between complexity and size: http://www.tidalsound.com/3dstuff/terrains.zip [ 71k ] In the zip file are three objs [ I use RS v 5, so did the objs so as all could load them regardless of RS version, I hope .. ] Unzip, open new file in RS. In the select window on the left [ default environment ] under the Geometric Objects tab [ first tab ], right click and Paste from a file, then select one of the three terrains that you just unzipped and Open. It should appear in your view window. Before anything else - select the mesh, go to the Methods Menu up top, Sub Division Surface and Merge Triangles to Quadrangles. This Un triangulates Vues exported mesh to quads [ 4 sided polys ]. Now [ with the mesh still selected ] - Click and hold the right mouse button, drag down and select Smooth from the "compass type menu" that appears - this gets rid of the poly look, smooths the mesh. Now render. Bring all three objs into the above project and try texturing etc. I think - even at 1310 polys and smooth mode, the terrains look refined enough and useable without causing RS to struggle. AND my explanation above is as close to a dummies guide to include all, ignore the above RS guru's :) Cheers Aidan At 09:35 16/06/2006, you wrote: Hi Mark.. That looks really cool..! My imagination might be abit too far out.. but I can almost imagine an ultra cool minigolf course...! Will be very intresting to see more of your work on this..landscapeshader and so on..! Thx for sharing..! Its very inspiring.. Take Care Best Regards Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner ) A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the progress bar ;) That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. more to follow, Mark
Re: landscape and Scope material was Re: OT Inspiration
OK , I'll bite that hook (grin) : You start by talking about render times . I didn't mention render times . Granted . TG2 will of course be tweaked for very fast renders . You mention stair-stepping . That is not an issue , depending on your terrain import source and it's ability to export advan- ced options . To clarify my point , the render is very plain , mostly , with the accent being on the 3D Xfrog tree . The surrounding terrain is not that challenging . The 3D Xfrog tree is being showcased as well as TG2's ability to light a scene properly . Trust me . It's not that much of an advancement , in my opinion , of course . Clouds are a totally different issue . I bow to S/W's like TG and Hypervoxel enabled efforts . Thanks very much for your reply . studio www.niagara.com/~studio www.studiodynamics.net > Hi, > > hmmm ... easily duplicated with RS? I don't think so. > I am sure with RS you CAN duplicate it, but with huge effort. Even the > render times would grow enormously. When i look at Marks landscape > render (nice render though) and specially at the render times, i really > don't want to do landscapes in RS anymore. TG renders scenes like this > in minutes (screen res) or under an hour in very high-res (4000x3000). I > did try to import terrains via the .obj-plug-in into RS and it is a pain > to handle the object. Believe me, it is no fun even on my 3GHz 1GigRAM > machine. And i don't think displacement is the solution here. I did try > that too and got terraced landscapes due to the 8Bit grayscales > hightmaps. Btw: Is there a way to import 16Bit-grayscale images? > The scene gets more tricky to handle, when it comes to atmospheric > effects. RS does pretty nice dust/mist with higher sampling. But i > didn't see any convincing 3d-clouds. 2D-clouds are ok. I don't want to > think about other, more complicated volumetric effects. > > I don't say that i wouldn't love to do landscape render in RS, but as > long as TG is faster and easier to use i leave it to Terragen. RS is > simply the wrong choice for the task. > > Regards, > Markus > > P.S.: I am still using RS4.5. Maybe v5.1 is better in some areas > regarding landscape rendering. > > studio schrieb: > >>> That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > >>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > > > >> Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should > >> be an awesome S/W when released . > > > > Sorry , forgot to include this TG2 Alpha render : > > > > http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD417.jpg > > > > Xfrog tree/TG2 Landscape . Awesome render but easily duplicated > > in RS even now . Simple displacement mapped terrain with exact > > lighting of the 3D tree object is what sells this render . > > > > Looks great but it's actually nothing very special at all . > > > > studio > > www.niagara.com/~studio > > www.studiodynamics.net > > > > > > > >>> That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > >>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > >>> Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. > >>> more to follow, > >>> Mark > >> Nice lighting Mark : > >> > >> Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should > >> be an awesome S/W when released . However , RS landscapes do not > >> have any boundaries or limits in a sense (except time & effort , > >> of course) . > >> > >> Great to see you're still experimenting ! > >> > >> studio > >> www.niagara.com/~studio > >> www.studiodynamics.net > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/355 - Release Date: 6/2/2006 > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/355 - Release Date: 6/2/2006 > >
Re: OT Inspiration
Hi Mark.. That looks really cool..! My imagination might be abit too far out.. but I can almost imagine an ultra cool minigolf course...! Will be very intresting to see more of your work on this..landscapeshader and so on..! Thx for sharing..! Its very inspiring.. Take Care Best Regards Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner ) A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the progress bar ;) That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. more to follow, Mark
Re: landscape and Scope material was Re: OT Inspiration
Hi, hmmm ... easily duplicated with RS? I don't think so. I am sure with RS you CAN duplicate it, but with huge effort. Even the render times would grow enormously. When i look at Marks landscape render (nice render though) and specially at the render times, i really don't want to do landscapes in RS anymore. TG renders scenes like this in minutes (screen res) or under an hour in very high-res (4000x3000). I did try to import terrains via the .obj-plug-in into RS and it is a pain to handle the object. Believe me, it is no fun even on my 3GHz 1GigRAM machine. And i don't think displacement is the solution here. I did try that too and got terraced landscapes due to the 8Bit grayscales hightmaps. Btw: Is there a way to import 16Bit-grayscale images? The scene gets more tricky to handle, when it comes to atmospheric effects. RS does pretty nice dust/mist with higher sampling. But i didn't see any convincing 3d-clouds. 2D-clouds are ok. I don't want to think about other, more complicated volumetric effects. I don't say that i wouldn't love to do landscape render in RS, but as long as TG is faster and easier to use i leave it to Terragen. RS is simply the wrong choice for the task. Regards, Markus P.S.: I am still using RS4.5. Maybe v5.1 is better in some areas regarding landscape rendering. studio schrieb: That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should be an awesome S/W when released . Sorry , forgot to include this TG2 Alpha render : http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD417.jpg Xfrog tree/TG2 Landscape . Awesome render but easily duplicated in RS even now . Simple displacement mapped terrain with exact lighting of the 3D tree object is what sells this render . Looks great but it's actually nothing very special at all . studio www.niagara.com/~studio www.studiodynamics.net That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. more to follow, Mark Nice lighting Mark : Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should be an awesome S/W when released . However , RS landscapes do not have any boundaries or limits in a sense (except time & effort , of course) . Great to see you're still experimenting ! studio www.niagara.com/~studio www.studiodynamics.net -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/355 - Release Date: 6/2/2006
Re: landscape and Scope material was Re: OT Inspiration
> > That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should > be an awesome S/W when released . Sorry , forgot to include this TG2 Alpha render : http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD417.jpg Xfrog tree/TG2 Landscape . Awesome render but easily duplicated in RS even now . Simple displacement mapped terrain with exact lighting of the 3D tree object is what sells this render . Looks great but it's actually nothing very special at all . studio www.niagara.com/~studio www.studiodynamics.net > > That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > > Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. > > more to follow, > > Mark > > Nice lighting Mark : > > Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should > be an awesome S/W when released . However , RS landscapes do not > have any boundaries or limits in a sense (except time & effort , > of course) . > > Great to see you're still experimenting ! > > studio > www.niagara.com/~studio > www.studiodynamics.net > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/355 - Release Date: 6/2/2006 > >
landscape and Scope material was Re: OT Inspiration
> That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. > more to follow, > Mark Nice lighting Mark : Everyone seems to be waiting for Terragen2 to appear . Should be an awesome S/W when released . However , RS landscapes do not have any boundaries or limits in a sense (except time & effort , of course) . Great to see you're still experimenting ! studio www.niagara.com/~studio www.studiodynamics.net
RE: OT Inspiration
At 09:21 AM 6/15/2006 +0200, you wrote: Hi Mark, That's looking wonderful already. You've done this without displacement? It must have been quite a lot of work to build the mesh. Or did you use some special tool? Quite interested how you set up the materials Arjo. Thanks everyone! Yes, I used World Machine to generate the mesh. Brilliant software. Better let the computer do the hard work ;) No displacement, just a high density phong-shaded triset. It would be nice to be able to displace this, but that's only possible in smooth mode. But in the past I rendered some interesting landscapes with displacement, it's perfectly possible. I'll upload the material after a few improvements. -Mark
Re: OT Inspiration
Mark, Nice work on this apparently complex material. Keep us posted, Zaug Mark Heuymans wrote: > >> >> I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the >> progress bar ;) > > > That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as > expected. > > more to follow, > Mark > > -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. <|8?o
Re: OT Inspiration
Hi Mark, >more to follow Even as it is I think your landscapes are looking very very useful. Thanks for your efforts and example. Neil Cooke - Original Message - From: "Mark Heuymans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: Re: OT Inspiration > > > > >I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the progress > >bar ;) > > > That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. > > more to follow, > Mark > >
RE: OT Inspiration
Hi Mark, That's looking wonderful already. You've done this without displacement? It must have been quite a lot of work to build the mesh. Or did you use some special tool? Quite interested how you set up the materials Arjo. > > > > >I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the > progress > >bar ;) > > > That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg > Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. > > more to follow, > Mark > >
Re: OT Inspiration
I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the progress bar ;) That was too optimistic, but there it finally is: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/holes04.jpg Far from perfect, but at least the scope stuff is functioning as expected. more to follow, Mark
Re: OT Inspiration
At 07:05 PM 6/14/2006 +0100, you wrote: > yet. It's hard to figure out how the scope *exactly* works, especially with > so many scoped materials. Maybe this setup is asking for trouble, so I'll > wait with the tutorial until I'm sure. Scope is a simpler interpolation of what has been rendered before and what you are rendering. If you apply a material with scope = 0.5, that material is evaluated and then blend with the non-material rendering at 50% of each. If you apply to a sphere wood at scope=0.5, checkers at scope=0.3, and marble at scope=1.0, the materials will be evaluated in full and then to the white ball, 50% wood will be added, 30% checkers, and then 100% marble, obscurring the other effects. If you reverse the order of application, you'll have a marble sphere, with 30% checker blending (the same as rendering the same image with checkers instead of marble and then applying that as a layer with 30% opacity/70% transparency in PhotoShop), and 50% wood blending (the same as rendering the same image with wood instead of marble+checkers and then applying that as a layer over the marble+checkers image with 50% opacity in PhotoShop). Scope is very slow in many instances, and if you can find alternatives the chances are you'll speed up rendering considerably. David Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi David, Excellent! If I understand correctly (which took some effort ;) ), what you're saying confirms my findings. There is only one scope channel and that's evaluated one by one material from top to bottom in the hierarchy during rendering. Sorry about that sentence ;) I like scope because it controls complete materials with their multiple shaders all at once. It's been around since V2 (or 3?) and I've always appreciated its power. The rock layers should have their own colors AND bumps and the scope approach does that well. An alternative would be to build all the stuff separately into different shaders. Now, I control the distribution of three different materials in one curve (3 curves actually: R, G and B) in the control material. If I don't like one of the rock materials, I just fiddle with it and don't have to bother about its distribution as long as I keep my hands off the Common Properties shader. If I want to change their distribution, I fiddle with the curves in the control material. I didn't notice extreme slowdown because of the scope; not as bad as the volumetrics anyway... and Cellular is very slow. Of course it's inevitable that five materials on a 26+ point mesh are slowing things down, but I've seen worse (like self-shadowing clouds with volume sampling 1000, or non-blurred GI with raycount 100, yes I need a new system asap!). And as a bonus, the OGL realtime view works nicely now, even with complex scope materials! It's funny: in the past there were many complaints about RS's bad OGL but nowadays you never hear anything about improvements like that. I'll upload the latest rendering in... 01:21:16 according to the progress bar ;) Thanks, Mark
Re: OT Inspiration
> yet. It's hard to figure out how the scope *exactly* works, especially with > so many scoped materials. Maybe this setup is asking for trouble, so I'll > wait with the tutorial until I'm sure. Scope is a simpler interpolation of what has been rendered before and what you are rendering. If you apply a material with scope = 0.5, that material is evaluated and then blend with the non-material rendering at 50% of each. If you apply to a sphere wood at scope=0.5, checkers at scope=0.3, and marble at scope=1.0, the materials will be evaluated in full and then to the white ball, 50% wood will be added, 30% checkers, and then 100% marble, obscurring the other effects. If you reverse the order of application, you'll have a marble sphere, with 30% checker blending (the same as rendering the same image with checkers instead of marble and then applying that as a layer with 30% opacity/70% transparency in PhotoShop), and 50% wood blending (the same as rendering the same image with wood instead of marble+checkers and then applying that as a layer over the marble+checkers image with 50% opacity in PhotoShop). Scope is very slow in many instances, and if you can find alternatives the chances are you'll speed up rendering considerably. David Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...
Re: OT Inspiration
Mark, Surely not just an analytical rectangle ; ) Nice work on t he landscape render. I am interested to see how your material progresses. Thankz for sharing, Zaug This is the approach so far: I made a material that defines scope of three other materials - the actual rock materials. That's all it does: no colors, bumps etc. This is evaluated first. I'm using the three color subchannels R, G and B separately, so I need only one custom color channel to determine three different rock materials. To get the sedimentation layers, I squeezed the first material vertically. This needs improvement: I have to replace the squeezed noise by continuous layers (with disruptions and vertical distortions). Also, the bumps need improvement. On top of that, there's an angle-dependant horizontal green material. So, there are five materials in the hierarchy: the scope definer, three rock materials and angle-dependant grass. The whole thing is very sensitive to small changes, and very user-unfriendly... and there are some errors left. And it doesn't look good yet. It's hard to figure out how the scope *exactly* works, especially with so many scoped materials. Maybe this setup is asking for trouble, so I'll wait with the tutorial until I'm sure. I'll keep you updated, Mark
RE: OT Inspiration
Very nice pictures! I live only a few hours north of most of that in Salt Lake City, and I still have not yet made the time to go visit all this wonderful scenery. Thanks for sharing, Brandon >A few off-topic images for your viewing pleasure: >I had the fortune to accompany my wife and her mother on a road trip >over to some of the canyons in Utah this past weekend. Here are a few >shots of what we saw. I hope they evoke at least a bit of the amazement >I experienced. >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4058.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4067.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4080.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4236.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4240.1.jpg > >A not so perfect ~ninety degree pano-stich of the view behind the B&B we >stayed at, near Valley of the Gods >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4382.1.jpg > >one of Valley of the Gods >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4397.1.jpg > >also the ancestral Puebloan ruins at Hovenweep >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4509.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4498.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4497.1.jpg >http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4531.1.jpg > >and at Mesa Verde in the southwestern corner of Colorado >http://www.catmtn.com/images/mesa_verde/100_4544.1.jpg > >Both ruin sites are dated between 1050 and 1200 AD. > >More to come when I find some time to edit them. > >Cheers, >Zaug > >-- >My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. ><|8?o >
Re: OT Inspiration
Mark Heuymans wrote: > Hi Zaug, > > Not completely OT: nice reference material for landscape renderings! > We don't have that here in Holland... (just one analytical rectangle > would be a perfect dutch landscape, maybe add a few cows here and > there ;) ) > > I recently made some progress with layered rock materials but it's > very slow and still very much WIP: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/isle01d.jpg > > I even made a mod out of this landscape mesh for Oblivion: I actually > walked around in this landscape! (without the RS shaders) > > > thanks for sharing, > Mark H > > Mark, Surely not just an analytical rectangle ; ) Nice work on t he landscape render. I am interested to see how your material progresses. Thankz for sharing, Zaug -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. <|8?o
Re: OT Inspiration
At 06:01 PM 6/12/2006 -0600, you wrote: A few off-topic images for your viewing pleasure: Hi Zaug, Not completely OT: nice reference material for landscape renderings! We don't have that here in Holland... (just one analytical rectangle would be a perfect dutch landscape, maybe add a few cows here and there ;) ) I recently made some progress with layered rock materials but it's very slow and still very much WIP: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ath8n0r/div/isle01d.jpg I even made a mod out of this landscape mesh for Oblivion: I actually walked around in this landscape! (without the RS shaders) thanks for sharing, Mark H
Re: OT Inspiration
That last pic looks so like a model it's freaky! ;) David Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > and at Mesa Verde in the southwestern corner of Colorado > http://www.catmtn.com/images/mesa_verde/100_4544.1.jpg >
Re: OT Inspiration
Neil Cooke wrote: > Very very nice renders Zaug. Thanks for the views. But wonder if where > you're headed isnt the halflings peyote territory? > > Neil Cooke > > Neil, Thankz. No, That is more south rather than west :) A journey (trip?) to be undertaken perhaps when the the mother-in-law is not along ;) Zaug -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. <|8?o
Re: OT Inspiration
Very very nice renders Zaug. Thanks for the views. But wonder if where you're headed isnt the halflings peyote territory? Neil Cooke - Original Message - From: "Zaug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: OT Inspiration > A few off-topic images for your viewing pleasure: > I had the fortune to accompany my wife and her mother on a road trip > over to some of the canyons in Utah this past weekend. Here are a few > shots of what we saw. I hope they evoke at least a bit of the amazement > I experienced. > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4058.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4067.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4080.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4236.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4240.1.jpg > > A not so perfect ~ninety degree pano-stich of the view behind the B&B we > stayed at, near Valley of the Gods > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4382.1.jpg > > one of Valley of the Gods > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4397.1.jpg > > also the ancestral Puebloan ruins at Hovenweep > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4509.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4498.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4497.1.jpg > http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4531.1.jpg > > and at Mesa Verde in the southwestern corner of Colorado > http://www.catmtn.com/images/mesa_verde/100_4544.1.jpg > > Both ruin sites are dated between 1050 and 1200 AD. > > More to come when I find some time to edit them. > > Cheers, > Zaug > > -- > My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. > <|8?o > >
OT Inspiration
A few off-topic images for your viewing pleasure: I had the fortune to accompany my wife and her mother on a road trip over to some of the canyons in Utah this past weekend. Here are a few shots of what we saw. I hope they evoke at least a bit of the amazement I experienced. http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4058.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4067.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4080.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4236.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4240.1.jpg A not so perfect ~ninety degree pano-stich of the view behind the B&B we stayed at, near Valley of the Gods http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4382.1.jpg one of Valley of the Gods http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4397.1.jpg also the ancestral Puebloan ruins at Hovenweep http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4509.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4498.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4497.1.jpg http://www.catmtn.com/images/utah/100_4531.1.jpg and at Mesa Verde in the southwestern corner of Colorado http://www.catmtn.com/images/mesa_verde/100_4544.1.jpg Both ruin sites are dated between 1050 and 1200 AD. More to come when I find some time to edit them. Cheers, Zaug -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. <|8?o
