Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
Hi Klortho, What happened to the really nice exception pages? Is there any way I can get them back? Have you looked at http://cocoon.apache.org/2.2/core-modules/core/2.2/1379_1_1.html ? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
It's not only about taking the road less traveled ... certainly not if you get the impression that it seems to be going the wrong way. I am convinced that a lot of cocoon users were convinced that cocoon was powerful useful ... until 2.2 We all know Cocoon has a rather steep learning curve, but the move to 2.2 just made it even more difficult. Maybe acceptance is not an issue, but when cocoon loses it user base, cocoon also loses the rich potential of talented developers to improve it. Just to get things clear (and to find out if I should stick with cocoon): who / what is cocoon made for (basically, who is the client) what is this client expecting / hoping for ? What I've seen in the recent past is that this discussion comes up every now and then, meaning that users remain unsatisfied. I feel that it would be to easy to blame them (although this is convenient, since you'd never have to question anything). All I can hope is to get some constructive debate out of this. What I expect as a cocoon user when new releases occur: new features, easier to use, better documentation ( and examples), stronger foundations, ... I can accept that it takes some effort, extra learning and code conversion ... (but I hope to get some of the above in return) I would like to invite other users to express what they expect from new versions, unless the end users are not the target audience for cocoon, and in this case ... should all move to mainstream php/ruby ? Regards, Bart 2009/1/30 Derek Hohls dho...@csir.co.za You may be correct; but I have never felt that Cocoon was striving for acceptance. It simply is what it is; and you either find it incredibly powerful and useful ... or become a mainstream php/ruby developer. If you are here, its because you have taken the road (development route?!) less traveled! On 2009/01/30 at 08:24, in message 21742093.p...@talk.nabble.com, Klortho voldr...@gmail.com wrote: dhohls wrote: That's a little harsh - although my impression is that C2.2 is perhaps a step sideways in terms of how many things are done... but that's just an impression from reading all the mailing list QA. So far, I have not needed to take the plunge. Yes, you're right ... too harsh. I'm really just a newbie, but speaking as one, I think that 2.1 was a much nicer experience out of the gate, which is pretty damn important for an application to gain wider acceptance. -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org -- Bart Remmerie
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
Hi all, I sometimes feel there is unfortunately no constructive debate about this topic (2.1 vs 2.2). And as you say, Bart, blaming people who remain unsatisfied with 2.2 seems to be the answer though it's a bit easy. For example, I have a lot of Cocoon apps with many XSP and Cocoon 2.2 does not support XSP. I don't know what to do with this apps in the future when 2.1 is no longer supported. Here (http://www.nabble.com/How-can-i-activate-XSP-in-cocoon-2.2---to19452293.html#a19457928) was an answer : Yes... XSP is evil and Yes, flowscript + template block. Constructive debate. What about performance (javascript interpreter written in java vs XSP compilation) ? If I have to work with a new environment for what reasons would I choose Cocoon 2.2 as there are now many developping frameworks when I no longer find in Cocoon the reasons that made me work with it ? Regards, André Le 30/01/2009 16:18, Bart Remmerie (par Internet, dépôt users-return-97136-andre.davignon=developpement-durable.gouv...@cocoon.apache.org) a écrit : It's not only about taking the road less traveled ... certainly not if you get the impression that it seems to be going the wrong way. I am convinced that a lot of cocoon users were convinced that cocoon was powerful useful ... until 2.2 We all know Cocoon has a rather steep learning curve, but the move to 2.2 just made it even more difficult. Maybe acceptance is not an issue, but when cocoon loses it user base, cocoon also loses the rich potential of talented developers to improve it. Just to get things clear (and to find out if I should stick with cocoon): who / what is cocoon made for (basically, who is the client) what is this client expecting / hoping for ? What I've seen in the recent past is that this discussion comes up every now and then, meaning that users remain unsatisfied. I feel that it would be to easy to blame them (although this is convenient, since you'd never have to question anything). All I can hope is to get some constructive debate out of this. What I expect as a cocoon user when new releases occur: new features, easier to use, better documentation ( and examples), stronger foundations, ... I can accept that it takes some effort, extra learning and code conversion ... (but I hope to get some of the above in return) I would like to invite other users to express what they expect from new versions, unless the end users are not the target audience for cocoon, and in this case ... should all move to mainstream php/ruby ? Regards, Bart 2009/1/30 Derek Hohls dho...@csir.co.za mailto:dho...@csir.co.za You may be correct; but I have never felt that Cocoon was striving for acceptance. It simply is what it is; and you either find it incredibly powerful and useful ... or become a mainstream php/ruby developer. If you are here, its because you have taken the road (development route?!) less traveled! On 2009/01/30 at 08:24, in message 21742093.p...@talk.nabble.com mailto:21742093.p...@talk.nabble.com, Klortho voldr...@gmail.com mailto:voldr...@gmail.com wrote: dhohls wrote: That's a little harsh - although my impression is that C2.2 is perhaps a step sideways in terms of how many things are done... but that's just an impression from reading all the mailing list QA. So far, I have not needed to take the plunge. Yes, you're right ... too harsh. I'm really just a newbie, but speaking as one, I think that 2.1 was a much nicer experience out of the gate, which is pretty damn important for an application to gain wider acceptance. -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org mailto:users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org mailto:users-h...@cocoon.apache.org -- Bart Remmerie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:41 PM, DAVIGNON Andre - CETE NP/DIODé/PANDOC andre.davig...@developpement-durable.gouv.fr wrote: ...I have a lot of Cocoon apps with many XSP and Cocoon 2.2 does not support XSP. I don't know what to do with this apps in the future when 2.1 is no longer supported 2.1 can stay supported as long as people support it ;-) Former colleagues of mine are still maintaining 2.1 apps that I created a few years ago, without any problems, and I'm sure many people are doing the same. If we had a need to fix something in it, we'd do it - and I encourage all 2.1 users to do the same, committers can fix things directly and contributors can submit patches. Nobody said 2.1 is dead, it is clearly (IMHO) in maintenance mode. Unlike commercial software, there's no requirement for anyone to move to 2.2, 3.0 or anything if you're happy with 2.1 - or prepared to contribute to fixing it where needed. Even if the Apache Cocoon project decided to freeze the 2.1 branch (which I would strongly oppose), the Apache License allows 2.1 users to grab the code and start maintaining it elsewhere. As the focus has shifted to 2.2 and 3.x, what you should not expect is people adding new features to 2.1...but what new features would you need anyway? I think 2.1 is stable both in terms of working reliably and it terms of providing a well defined set of useful features. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
Klortho pisze: Well, thanks much for the suggestion, but it didn't work. I did some experimenting, and tried pulling this out of a 2.1 sitemap and inserting it at the top of my new sitemap: map:components map:generators default=file map:generator name=exception src=org.apache.cocoon.generation.ExceptionGenerator/ /map:generators /map:components but it didn't seem to make any difference. The exception I'm testing is when you give it a URL that's doesn't match any pipeline. Well, I know I'm going to have to be patient, but so far my impression is that version 2.2 was a giant step backwards. This is a regression, no need for pathetic words. git log core/cocoon-core reveals: commit dad8542e6ba7e9d491762f2874c3a5caee488da9 Author: Grzegorz Kossakowski gkossakow...@apache.org Date: Thu Aug 14 08:39:55 2008 + Always handle ResouceNotFoundException by setting up appropriate response's status code and by printing exception details into response. git-svn-id: https://svn.eu.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/tr...@685811 13f79535-47bb-0310-9956-ffa450edef68 AFAIR this is a fix for this regression. It has been incorporated in released version yet, unfortunately. -- Best regards, Grzegorz Kossakowski - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
Grzegorz Kossakowski pisze: AFAIR this is a fix for this regression. It has been incorporated in released version yet, unfortunately. Should be: It has been NOT incorporated in released version yet, unfortunately. -- Grzegorz Kossakowski - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
2009/1/30 Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:41 PM, DAVIGNON Andre - CETE NP/DIODé/PANDOC andre.davig...@developpement-durable.gouv.fr wrote: 2.1 can stay supported as long as people support it ;-) Former colleagues of mine are still maintaining 2.1 apps that I created a few years ago, without any problems, and I'm sure many people are doing the same. If we had a need to fix something in it, we'd do it - and I encourage all 2.1 users to do the same, committers can fix things directly and contributors can submit patches. Nobody said 2.1 is dead, it is clearly (IMHO) in maintenance mode. Sounds good in theory, but the big assumption is that submitted patches might actually be applied. I uploaded https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1887 2 1/2 years ago and it's still waiting, even though it's a relatively trivial change and only about half a dozen lines of code if you ignore the comments and unit test :-( Less, if you exclude the bit to preserve backward compatibility. And it's by no means the oldest patch in the summary list that's sent to the list every few weeks... Andy -- http://pseudoq.sourceforge.net/ Open source java sudoku solver - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
I for one think that when releasing a new version, a lot of deference should be given to the newbie. Don't make it harder to get started using. Dropping old deprecated features might be fine, but 2.1, in addition to the nice exception pages, had a very nice welcome page with lots of links to examples, and I still think dropping that was a mistake. bart remmerie wrote: We all know Cocoon has a rather steep learning curve, but the move to 2.2 just made it even more difficult. What I expect as a cocoon user when new releases occur: new features, easier to use, better documentation ( and examples), stronger foundations, ... I can accept that it takes some effort, extra learning and code conversion ... (but I hope to get some of the above in return) I would like to invite other users to express what they expect from new versions, unless the end users are not the target audience for cocoon, and in this case ... should all move to mainstream php/ruby ? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Getting-started-with-C2.2where%27s-the-exception-information--tp21736790p21757643.html Sent from the Cocoon - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
