[libreoffice-users] Re: Invalid recovery of non-existent files

[Russell Butler]

On 20/02/11 04:01, Tom Davies wrote:





From: Erik
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 15:12:21
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Invalid recovery of non-existent files

  panscend.com>  writes:



LO is starting up with an attempt to recover 2 files that are no longer
in existence on my computer. In OO you could manipulate the file
Recovery.xcu, but that appears not to be the case with LO.

So, how do I stop this madness?

Also, wouldn't it make sense to clean this up when it's unrecoverable?
Or at least present an option to stop trying?


I have the same problem. I have two non-existing files which LibreOffice
attempts to recover each time I start LibreOffice. Quite annoying. Could anybody
tell me how I "tell" LibreOffice not to try to recover those files.

I am using Linux Mint 10 and the following version of LibreOffice:
LibreOffice 3.3.0
OOO330m19 (Build:5)
tag libreoffice-3.3.0.3

Thanks in advance
Erik

Hi :)

Does renaming LibreOffice's config folder stop the behaviour?  If so 
then you
might want to copy some stuff back into the new folder from the backup 
you just

made to get some of your settings back.

I was also wondering what would happen if you created a new document 
with the
same name and location as the non-existent one it tries to recover and 
then open

the new document.

Regards from
Tom :)

Hi Tom

Good on you for responding to the posts on top/bottom posting.

May I suggest one little extra, which is to delete the "--" at the 
bottom of the post you are responding to? or of course start your 
response above them.  Otherwise your response comes through as .sig and 
is dimmed out and not quoted if someone then responds to you. I 
deliberately copied and pasted your note in above.


Keep up the good work.

Regards

Russell


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[libreoffice-users] Re: Missing function: Bankers Rounding

[Andreas Säger]

Hi Regina,

Am 19.02.2011 15:16, Regina Henschel wrote:


I think, MROUND will work for Robert. Examples:

Round to nearest even Cent:
MROUND(12.354;0.02) results in 12.36

But the bankster rounds to 12.35


MROUND(-12.328;0.02) results in -12.32


But the bankster rounds to -12.33


Round-to-even to one decimal place
MROUND(3.49;0.2) results in 3.4

But the bankster rounds to 3.49


MROUND(2.51;0.2) results in 2.6

But the bankster rounds to 2.51


With "normal" rounding, 1/1000 digits ...
1,2,3,4 round down to previous zero
5,6,7,8,9 round up to next zero
This means that there are 20% more ups than downs because of the 5 which 
is exactly in the middle but rounds up by mere convention.
The oh-so-clever ones round up or down depending on the second last 
digit (1/100) being even or odd when the 1/1000 digit is 5. So the 5 
goes up in 50% of all cases and down in the other 50%.

2.515 => 2.51 [5/1000 down]
2.525 => 2.53 [5/1000 up]
This can be solved by some carefully designed script or sheet formula 
but I don't feel penuriously enough to do so.


http://www.tech-archive.net/Archive/Excel/microsoft.public.excel.misc/2004-04/5994.html
gives strange results or I do not understand it. It is generic enough to 
be run by this interpreter.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Accessing the mailing list

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2011/02/19 10:36 PM  Ken Springer wrote:

While looking around for alternatives for reading this list, I thought
I saw a page that stated the list could be accessed by a Usenet
newsgroup reader.

But, I've looked at every link in the LO web site, I think, and find
no reference to that.  The closest I came is Gmane.

Set up an account in your newsgroup reader for news.gmane.org using port 119

Then subscribe to various LibreOffice and Document Foundation groups.

gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user

See http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ for list of all mailing lists and their 
gmane address.


For more information on gmane go to http://gmane.org/

Larry
--
_
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



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[libreoffice-users] Accessing the mailing list

[Ken Springer]

While looking around for alternatives for reading this list, I thought
I saw a page that stated the list could be accessed by a Usenet
newsgroup reader.

But, I've looked at every link in the LO web site, I think, and find
no reference to that.  The closest I came is Gmane.

Did I miss something?

Ken

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: keep open table tool bar

[Michel Gagnon]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Avraham Hanadari  
wrote:
The fact that the table tool bar opens when I am in a table, but 
disappears
whenever I move to surrounding parts of the page makes the entire 
page jump
up and down in a most disturbing manner. I use tables a lot and 
would be

very happy if I could keep the table tool bar open all the time. I have
tried all sorts of settings, but nothing I have tried works.

Please! Can someone suggest how the table tool bar could be kept 
open on a

permanent basis?



I, too, find it irritant. I dock the table, image and other similar 
toolbars to the bottom of the screen so my text doesn't dance around 
when I move the cursor in and out of tables (and numbering lists...).


As for installing some of those icons permanently, I have done once what 
is the second best thing for a toolbar that I often use, the bullets and 
numbering toolbar:
– In a personal toolbar, I install a copy of the icons I use regularly. 
Because it's a personal toolbar, it stays on the screen as long as I 
want it.
– I have emptied the bullets and numbering toolbar so there is only one 
icon in it. I have docked it to he right side of the standard toolbar.
The result: My personal toolbar, which almost mimics the original 
bullets and numbering toolbar is always there on the left side of the 
screen, along with a few formatting icons. The bullets and numbering 
toolbar pops in and out, but it's only one icon long and sits to the 
right of the standard toolbar, so my text doesn't dance.




--

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Montréal (Québec, Canada) – mgagnon.net 


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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OP - Fix Tom] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

[Charles Marcus]

On 2/19/2011 4:28 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi

I don't see why i get the blame for taking the thread "off topic"


What makes you think he was talking to you? The top level quote 
attribution was mine... so, obviously, he was talking to me.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[T. R. Valentine]

On 19 February 2011 14:13, Robert Holtzman  wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:28:03AM -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
>> I didn't see that you expressed a point. It seemed that you were simply
>> bragging about ignoring email conventions.

Perhaps you didn't see my earlier comments on this topic where I very
strongly endorse normal e-mail usage. Just yesterday, I wrote about
belonging to lists that enforce such standards by banning those who do
not comply. I've also made comments about broken e-mail clients
(though *any* e-mail client *can* be used correctly with a little
effort -- even Yahoo!).

>> What "worst offender" have you reference to?

tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk (now in my kill list)

> *If* what you originally posted was sarcasm and I missed it, I apologize.

It was an apparently weak attempt at irony/sarcasm. My apologies. It
is sometimes difficult to convey tone in text. This is especially true
with irony and sarcasm.


-- 
T. R. Valentine
Your friends will argue with you. Your enemies don't care.
'When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food
and clothes.' -- Erasmus

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Invalid recovery of non-existent files

[Erik]

Tom Davies  yahoo.co.uk> writes:



Thanks Tom.

Problem was myself!!!

I am not sure where to find the config folder. However I found out I was a
victim of habit. I have been using OpenOffice the last couple of years and
frequently have had this problem. In OpenOffice I tried several times to click
"Cancel" when OpenOffice prompted me with the auto recovery option at start up.
Every time OpenOffice simply closed down and the auto recovery option reappeared
next time I tried to start up. You therefore had to find the file that saved the
recovery file and the setup file to get rid of the problem.

However LibreOffice already here have shown its strengths. I finally clicked
"Cancel" instead of "Recover" and LibreOffice actually - opposed to OpenOffice -
continued to load normally. I tried to close down and restart LibreOffice and no
auto recovery window appeared. BRAVO guys behind LibreOffice. You got a new fan
already :-)

Cheers


Erik


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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[Robert Holtzman]

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:28:03AM -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > >> Too much work. One just hits reply, types where the cursor appears (on
> > >> top) and hits send.
> > >
> > > Are you *trying* to be irritating or just trolling?
> > 
> > Neither. And the fact that the worst offender **agreed** with the
> > statement proved my point.
> 
> I didn't see that you expressed a point. It seemed that you were simply
> bragging about ignoring email conventions.
> 
> What "worst offender" have you reference to?

I seldom reply to my own posts but I'll make an exception.

*If* what you originally posted was sarcasm and I missed it, I apologize.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer"

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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[Glenn]

I agree - it's a thorny problem trying to meet the needs of new users (we'd 
like bring them in to the fold) and more sophisticated users such as yourselves.
But, as a new user, I am prepared weed through the threads so I have a better 
understanding of the underlying issues and my options.
Glenn
On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Barbara Duprey wrote:

> On 2/18/2011 11:30 AM, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> On 2011-02-17 9:18 PM, Barbara Duprey wrote:
>>> The presence of archives, or people coming in to a discussion that's
>>> already underway, is the main reason that mailing lists differ from
>>> normal conversational e-mailing where there may well be only two
>>> parties, or several people who have all been there since the beginning,
>>> where everybody just needs to see the most recent addition to the
>>> conversation (or occasionally look deeper into the material for
>>> reference) and top posting is the most effective way to keep
>>> communications going.
>> That makes much more sense on a FORUM...
>> 
>> But, Barbara, honestly, I guarantee you the vast majority of people who
>> participate on mail lists do not go to the archives to read entire
>> threads... ever. They come here to post a question and get an answer.
> 
> Understood. But we do have archives, and we do try to encourage people to use 
> them. That's why I say there's not ever likely to be a totally satisfactory 
> solution to this.
> 
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> 





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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[Robert Holtzman]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 09:32:42PM -0600, T. R. Valentine wrote:
> On 18 February 2011 21:21, Robert Holtzman  wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 07:58:41PM -0600, T. R. Valentine wrote:
> >> On 17 February 2011 18:58, Robert Holtzman  wrote:
> >>
> >> > You have something against trimming quotes?
> >>
> >> Too much work. One just hits reply, types where the cursor appears (on
> >> top) and hits send.
> >
> > Are you *trying* to be irritating or just trolling?
> 
> Neither. And the fact that the worst offender **agreed** with the
> statement proved my point.

I didn't see that you expressed a point. It seemed that you were simply
bragging about ignoring email conventions.

What "worst offender" have you reference to?

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer"

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Missing function: Bankers Rounding

[Joachim Wiedorn]

Gordon Burgess-Parker  wrote on 2011-02-19 12:22:

> All you need to do is to set the cell format to be 2 decimal places. If 
> you then enter 123.455 into a cell that will round up to 123.46 
> automatically for youno need for any sort of complicated formulae

This is only the display format. The intern value stay by 123.455. That
mean if you add more cells, then it compute always with the not rounded
value!

---
Have a nice day.

Joachim (Germany)

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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[Barbara Duprey]

On 2/18/2011 11:30 AM, Charles Marcus wrote:

On 2011-02-17 9:18 PM, Barbara Duprey wrote:

The presence of archives, or people coming in to a discussion that's
already underway, is the main reason that mailing lists differ from
normal conversational e-mailing where there may well be only two
parties, or several people who have all been there since the beginning,
where everybody just needs to see the most recent addition to the
conversation (or occasionally look deeper into the material for
reference) and top posting is the most effective way to keep
communications going.

That makes much more sense on a FORUM...

But, Barbara, honestly, I guarantee you the vast majority of people who
participate on mail lists do not go to the archives to read entire
threads... ever. They come here to post a question and get an answer.


Understood. But we do have archives, and we do try to encourage people to use them. That's why I say 
there's not ever likely to be a totally satisfactory solution to this.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Invalid recovery of non-existent files

[Tom Davies]

From: Erik 
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 15:12:21
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Invalid recovery of non-existent files

 panscend.com> writes:

> 
> LO is starting up with an attempt to recover 2 files that are no longer 
> in existence on my computer. In OO you could manipulate the file 
> Recovery.xcu, but that appears not to be the case with LO.
> 
> So, how do I stop this madness?
> 
> Also, wouldn't it make sense to clean this up when it's unrecoverable? 
> Or at least present an option to stop trying?
> 
I have the same problem. I have two non-existing files which LibreOffice
attempts to recover each time I start LibreOffice. Quite annoying. Could anybody
tell me how I "tell" LibreOffice not to try to recover those files.

I am using Linux Mint 10 and the following version of LibreOffice:
LibreOffice 3.3.0 
OOO330m19 (Build:5)
tag libreoffice-3.3.0.3

Thanks in advance
Erik
-- 

Hi :)

Does renaming LibreOffice's config folder stop the behaviour?  If so then you 
might want to copy some stuff back into the new folder from the backup you just 
made to get some of your settings back.

I was also wondering what would happen if you created a new document with the 
same name and location as the non-existent one it tries to recover and then 
open 
the new document.

Regards from
Tom :)



  
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[libreoffice-users] Re: Hardly any movement on the "OOo version" of this list

[wamiduku]

Mac wrote:
> 
> Hear, hear!
> 
> (of course I might miss the bickering over the forms of handling replies 
> as I won't follow a forum thread that goes there  :chuckle ).
> 

I actually found the forum (http://en.libreofficeforum.org/forum) at last.
Oddly, there's no link to it from th LibreOffice home page, which is why I
didn't find it at first. To return to the original subject, there is very
little traffic at the LibreOffice forum, so it doesn't seem as if OOo users
haved moved there yet. The decline in the OOo mailing list could be due to
list subscribers moving to the OOo forum, and well as some moving to the
LibreOffice list.

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Invalid recovery of non-existent files

[Erik]

  panscend.com> writes:

> 
> LO is starting up with an attempt to recover 2 files that are no longer 
> in existence on my computer. In OO you could manipulate the file 
> Recovery.xcu, but that appears not to be the case with LO.
> 
> So, how do I stop this madness?
> 
> Also, wouldn't it make sense to clean this up when it's unrecoverable? 
> Or at least present an option to stop trying?
> 


I have the same problem. I have two non-existing files which LibreOffice
attempts to recover each time I start LibreOffice. Quite annoying. Could anybody
tell me how I "tell" LibreOffice not to try to recover those files.

I am using Linux Mint 10 and the following version of LibreOffice:
LibreOffice 3.3.0 
OOO330m19 (Build:5)
tag libreoffice-3.3.0.3

Thanks in advance


Erik


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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OP - Fix Tom] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

[Charles Marcus]

On 2/18/2011 10:57 PM, NoOp wrote:
> On 02/17/2011 04:01 AM, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> Hi Tom,
> 
> 
> This has exactly what to do with the subject of this post?

Lots of people start off their replies with 'Hi Whoever', it is
generally deemed a courtesy...

> I'd place thread hijacking/OT drift right up there with top-posting et
> al.

And I'd place replying without including quoted text for context in the
same category.

> Please give some consideration to the OP and the thread subject.

The OP's question was answered long ago, and he replied as such, so
there was no harm done to the OP.

> If you (and others) have something to contribute to " FEATURE
> REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page" please do.
> If not, then please start a new thread or off list with Tom. And no,
> I'm not a list moderator or list mom, just a list subscriber that
> would like to see threads stay somewhat on topic.

While I agree with you in general, lots of people commented in that
thread, so there was no need to single me out, you should have just made
a general comment about it.

Regardless, as you are simply a list member, and not a list Mom, I'd
suggest you mind your own business, or send emails like this privately.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

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[libreoffice-users] Re: QUESTION: Base and recognised 'xbase' file formats

[Alexander Thurgood]

Le 19/02/11 12:44, Simon Cropper a écrit :

H Simon,

> 
> So back to my original question, what file types can Base actually
> access and manipulate, and how?
> 


It used to be in the included OOo help, but I haven't looked recently,
so can't say whether it is still there. As far as I can recall, it only
supported dBase III, and possibly dBase IV.

Some FP files were accessible, as were some Borland Paradox files.

No binary field support as far as I recall either.

To be read by LibO, the filenames have to be lower case (according to
the help).




Alex


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Missing function: Bankers Rounding

[Regina Henschel]

Hi all,

Andreas Säger schrieb:

Am 19.02.2011 00:50, Robert Prins wrote:

Why is there no standard function to do bankers rounding (aka
round-to-even)?




http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_MROUND_function


Indeed, MROUND is not a standard function. It is part of the (always
installed) Analysis add-on.


I think, MROUND will work for Robert. Examples:

Round to nearest even Cent:
MROUND(12.354;0.02) results in 12.36
MROUND(-12.328;0.02) results in -12.32

Round-to-even to one decimal place
MROUND(3.49;0.2) results in 3.4
MROUND(2.51;0.2) results in 2.6

Kind regards
Regina

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Two coordinated sets of sequential numbers

[Luuk]

On 17-02-11 23:53, Joe Nierenberg wrote:
> Hello.  I regularly need to create documents that have numbering schemes
> like this:
>
> Request 1.   Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, 
>
> Response 1.  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet,
>
> Request 2.  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, 
>
> Response 2.  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet,
>
> Etc.  Occasionally, the paragraphs will have subparagraphs (a, b, c, etc.).
>
> I have tried various approaches, but cannot find a way to create numbered
> paragraph styles in LO to meet this need.  Can anyone suggest ways to do
> this?
>
> Thank you.
>
The question got /me thinking ;)

But the best i can achieve in Writer is this:
http://q.xs4all.nl/RequestResponse.odt

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Is there a YUM repository for Redhat users?

[James Harrison]

Hi,


I didn't see a YUM repository for LibreOffice. Please tell me if there is one.

Thanks,
James Harrison


  
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Missing function: Bankers Rounding

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 00:38, Robert Prins wrote:

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 00:24, plino  wrote:

I had never heard of bankers rounding before. Interesting concept.

There is no such function in OOo/LO, Excel or Gnumeric...

But you can easily create a function

=IF(A1-INT(A1)=0.5;IF(ISEVEN(INT(A1));A1-0.5;A1+0.5);ROUND(A1))

(Adjust if your separator is a comma instead of a  semi-colon)

What this does is check if the fractional part is 0.5 and adds 0.5 to the
number if the integer is odd and subtracts if it is even. If  it is not 0.5
then it uses the regular Round() function ;)

Hope this helps!

Yes, but mostly no...

The above works for 22.5 and -1234.5, but now I want to deal with currencies...

Like $ 123.455 or € 99.125, which should be rounded to $ 123.46 and € 99.12

In other words, the issue is slightly more complicated...

Robert
All you need to do is to set the cell format to be 2 decimal places. If 
you then enter 123.455 into a cell that will round up to 123.46 
automatically for youno need for any sort of complicated formulae


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[libreoffice-users] Re: Missing function: Bankers Rounding

[plino]

What I meant was:  if the original numbers have a mixed number of decimal
cases you can't apply my solution because of the base 2 calculations.

But I assume that in a table you don't have values with 3 decimal cases
mixed with one decimal case?

Therefore you could go from 4 decimal cases to 1 in 3 steps using my
method...


In any case, the short answer is: there isn't such a round function in any
of the 3 spreadsheets.

Apparently the round() function in Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) does
a bankers' rounding.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.excel.charting/msg/107fce6145b70d69?pli=1

Hope this helps
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 10:44, James Wilde wrote:
My problem with the ribbon - with which I have to help my wife on her 
Windows box - is that, after 20 years of menus, I don't find it 
intuitive. And apparently neither does she. Let's hope the LibO 
developers never get seduced into trying to imitate it.


I have to say after having used everything from MS Office 95 through 
Lotus and WordPerfect, I found the Ribbon fairly easy to get to use - 
the QAT being a great help...



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: QUESTION: Base and recognised 'xbase' file formats

[Simon Cropper]

On 19/02/11 12:40, Andreas Säger wrote:

Base supports one single type of file which is *.odb.
You never "open" any database in Base. A database may have gigabytes.
You connect databases to a database document, some driver requests data
snippets (row sets) from the external database and shows the requested
data in the user interface. Even the native type of database works like
this since the contained database gets extracted into a temporary
directory before any content is delivered by a database driver to the
Base GUI.
dBase always used to be a database in a directory. Thus you connect a
new Base document to a directory which contains *.dbf files.
In Writer or Calc hit F4, right-click the example database
"Bibliography" and choose "Edit database file". This loads an odb
document. Look at the status bar. It shows the connection type "dBase"
together with the location of the connected dBase directory.
No matter what file you open in Base, it will always be the odb
container format.



Andreas,

Thanks for the overview, but you did not answer the question.

Although Base sees these external objects and shows you them in the GUI 
interface, it does not mean it will access the tables correctly.


I presume the object show in the GUI interface is a link to the external 
tables. In my case dbase tables in a directory.


What I want to know is what can Base actually talk with? dBaseIII files, 
dBase IV files, Foxpro files, Clipper files, etc. All have the DBF 
extension and similar structure although vary in allowable field types, 
header flags and index structure.


I have searched the web and few packages provide complete compatability 
with the DBF format. At best Dbase III and Visual Foxpro v6 files are 
accessible with the python package 'dbf'. How then is Base able to show

some of my Visual Foxpro 9 tables?

So back to my original question, what file types can Base actually 
access and manipulate, and how?


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   Simon Cropper
   Principal Consultant
   Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd
   PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC
   W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au

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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[Jean-Francois Nifenecker]

Le 19/02/2011 11:26, TVCSF Chair a écrit :

I have only been on this list, which I am now leaving,


Don't.


for less than a week  [...]
More than 50% of the e-mails I have received have been on the subject of
how to manage the list, so why not get back to what this was presumably
set up for of providing help


These arguments happen on all and every list I had subscribed. It is the 
first time I can see this happen on this list since it was setup, so, 
I'd say you were out of luck... Pls, be patient and leave the storm alone ;)


--
Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 10:47, James Wilde wrote:

On 18/02/11 21:30, T. R. Valentine wrote:

On 18 February 2011 10:25,wrote:

The biggest reason is our users do not remember to save in MS format when
sending files to customers and vendors. I am not sure a single customer of
ours could open an .odt file, for example, so we have to use formats our
customers and vendors can open.

Yes, I can see having LO/OO.o saving in MS formats by default for
accessibility for others. That is (unfortunately!) the reality.


Not at all. OO/LO has the wonderful function of File>Send>Email as MS
Word
So you can standardise on ODF internally and yet send as MS Word format
externally without having to do a Save-As and get two copies of the same
document...

Not only that, but there is also File/Send/Email as PDF.  These two options 
were a stroke of genius, whoever thought of them.

//James

Quite agree! Office 2007 doesn't have anything like that - if you use 
OOXML as default and need to send a .doc file, you have to do a Save As 
first and so get TWO copies of the same document in different formats...


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[James Wilde]

>> 
>>> On 18/02/11 21:30, T. R. Valentine wrote:
 On 18 February 2011 10:25,   wrote:
> The biggest reason is our users do not remember to save in MS format when
> sending files to customers and vendors. I am not sure a single customer of
> ours could open an .odt file, for example, so we have to use formats our
> customers and vendors can open.
 Yes, I can see having LO/OO.o saving in MS formats by default for
 accessibility for others. That is (unfortunately!) the reality.
 
>>> Not at all. OO/LO has the wonderful function of File>Send>Email as MS
>>> Word
>>> So you can standardise on ODF internally and yet send as MS Word format
>>> externally without having to do a Save-As and get two copies of the same
>>> document...

Not only that, but there is also File/Send/Email as PDF.  These two options 
were a stroke of genius, whoever thought of them.

//James


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[James Wilde]

On Feb 19, 2011, at 09:57 , Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

> On 19/02/11 00:45, MR ZenWiz wrote:
>> 
>> I don't like the ribbon primarily because it takes up a huge amount of
>> vertical screen space
> 
> You do know you can minimize the ribbon?
> 

My problem with the ribbon - with which I have to help my wife on her Windows 
box - is that, after 20 years of menus, I don't find it intuitive.  And 
apparently neither does she.  Let's hope the LibO developers never get seduced 
into trying to imitate it.

//James
An old dog...
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Installing chinese language pack

[James Wilde]

Hi Alex:

Just noticed that I didn't thank you.

//James

On Feb 18, 2011, at 15:07 , Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Le 18/02/11 12:16, James Wilde a écrit :
> 
> Hi James,
> 
>> 
>> I wonder if one of our Chinese subscribers can help me.  I am trying to 
>> install the zh-CN language pack and it doesn't seem to be working all the 
>> way.  When I install the en-GB and the sv-SE language packs I see these in 
>> the extensions, and I can find them in the extensions folder.  I have now 
>> tried to install the zh-CN language pack by the same method twice, and it 
>> still hasn't shown up neither in the folder nor as an extension in Extension 
>> Manager.
>> 
>> The process appears to follow the same procedure as with the Swedish and 
>> British language packs, in that I am asked which instance I want to upgrade 
>> (there are a couple of old copies lurking on my backup disk), then the 
>> program appears to do whatever it is supposed to do, and I get up the 
>> message telling me in Chinese to use Preferences/Language to set the 
>> language. I can do that, and have done it (and managed to get back to 
>> English again!) but it seems strange not to have a dict-cn file in the 
>> Extensions folder as I have for GB and SE.
>> 
>> But perhaps there is no dictionary in the Chinese language pack?
>> 
> 
> I have just checked out the contents of the ZH langpack offered with the
> Mac download and it appears that the dictionary is in fact missing. Only
> the help and translated interface strings, templates, etc, seem to be
> included. This is a bug, IMHO, unless there is another reason for not
> having included them (e.g. no one has worked on it to include it).
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

[TVCSF Chair]

On 19/02/2011 03:32, T. R. Valentine wrote:

On 18 February 2011 21:21, Robert Holtzman  wrote:

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 07:58:41PM -0600, T. R. Valentine wrote:

On 17 February 2011 18:58, Robert Holtzman  wrote:


You have something against trimming quotes?

Too much work. One just hits reply, types where the cursor appears (on
top) and hits send.

Are you *trying* to be irritating or just trolling?

Neither. And the fact that the worst offender **agreed** with the
statement proved my point.

I have only been on this list, which I am now leaving, for less than a 
week, and while I am sure you all give really good advice to people who 
are having problems using Lo you all seem to be more interested in 
arguing amongst yourselves about protocol.
More than 50% of the e-mails I have received have been on the subject of 
how to manage the list, so why not get back to what this was presumably 
set up for of providing help


Steve

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)

The point i was making was that most people that can't open odt files are using 
old versions of MS Word.  


We have an opportunity to help them upgrade to LibreOffice rather than 
following 
their default upgrade route to MS Office 2010.  The ribbon-bar counts in our 
favour because our menu system is more intuitive and familiar to users of MS 
Word 2003 and earlier.  Even 2007 users are likely to appreciate the "step 
backwards".

Often, company websites have documents in pdf and then have some system to help 
people install or upgrade Adobe Acrobat Reader.  Something similar has often 
been done in emails.  We could encourage people to do that with odt.

A company that helped it's customers, clients, vendors (and such-like) become 
more competitive (by avoiding the licensing fees of our main competitors) might 
build-up more "goodwill" on it's balance sheet and that might well translate 
directly into repeat sales.

Regards from
Tom :)







From: MR ZenWiz 
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 0:45:34
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Tom Davies  wrote:
>
:
> I find the ribbon bar much easier to use than the old menus and they look
> prettier.  People mostly just don't like them because they are unfamiliar and 
>we
> all like to stay in our comfort zones.  LibreOffice is better despite having
> "old-style" menus, not because of it imo.  Many disagree about that and that
> gives another reason why we have opportunity now.
>

I don't like the ribbon primarily because it takes up a huge amount of
vertical screen space that is mostly just a waste.  When I write a
document, or even an email, I want as much vertical space as possible
so I can see as much of messages/documents in one shot as possible.

I also don't much care for the way MS decided for us what we do and
don't need to see up front.  I *do* like the tabs of the ribbon - once
I get used to them (however long that takes :-), I think they'll be
somewhat helpful and easier to use than the older menu format.  In
fact, it would have been a much better marketing approach just to turn
the File Edit View menu bar into a tab bar first, then (maybe) a few
years after this caught on, go the next step and limit the tabs as
they are already in O10.

However, a whole world change like this not only makes MS Office
ergonomically incompatible with every other similar app in the world
(probably on purpose), it requires a massive retraining effort for
users.  In any other business, this would be economic suicide.  (Yes,
I keep praying)

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Re: [libreoffice-users] [OP - Fix Tom] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

[Tom Davies]

Hi

I don't see why i get the blame for taking the thread "off topic" when i am 
only 
answering the points raised in a previous post to this thread.  Your criticism 
should be directed at the person that first took the thread off-topic.

Regards from
Tom 





From: NoOp 
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 3:57:26
Subject: [libreoffice-users] [OP - Fix Tom] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- 
Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

On 02/17/2011 04:01 AM, Charles Marcus wrote:
> Hi Tom,


This has exactly what to do with the subject of this post?

I'd place thread hijacking/OT drift right up there with top-posting et
al. Please give some consideration to the OP and the thread subject. If
you (and others) have something to contribute to " FEATURE REQUEST: CALC
-- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page" please do. If not, then
please start a new thread or off list with Tom. And no, I'm not a list
moderator or list mom, just a list subscriber that would like to see
threads stay somewhat on topic.








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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: keep open table tool bar

[Tom Davies]

From: Avraham Hanadari 
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 7:12:35
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: keep open table tool bar

Le 18/02/2011 21:46, MR ZenWiz a écrit :
> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Avraham Hanadari  
wrote:
>> The fact that the table tool bar opens when I am in a table, but disappears
>> whenever I move to surrounding parts of the page makes the entire page jump
>> up and down in a most disturbing manner. I use tables a lot and would be
>> very happy if I could keep the table tool bar open all the time. I have
>> tried all sorts of settings, but nothing I have tried works.
>> 
>> Please! Can someone suggest how the table tool bar could be kept open on a
>> permanent basis?
>> 
> I find the non-anchored position of that toolbar to be an irritant as
> well, but because it anchors in the wrong place and doesn't move when
> I move the document window, but that's not really on point
> 
> Have you tried docking the toolbar to a menu line and then locking its 
>position?
> 
Thanks for your remarks.

I have tried docking the tool bar, but it still appears and disappears 
according 
as I am in or not in a table. The least annoying dock is on the side of the 
screen, but it still knocks the page a little sideways when it does its 
appearance trick. Pleas explain exactly what you mean by "docking to a menu 
line". Perhaps I have not done that. I don't know wha you mean by "menu line".

Thanks again,

Rick


Hi Rick again.  

The default position for the toolbar is to be free-floating so that you can 
drag 
it around the screen even right into the middle.  This might be the best way 
for 
you to have the toolbar now i think about it.

I think you already have the toolbar "docked" at the left of the screen so that 
it is attached to the edge of the screen and appears as a single row/column 
stretching from top-to-bottom rather than as a compact box floating over the 
document.

Language evolves over time and the normal usage of the word "dock" is now 
somewhat different but there are still several different meanings of the term.

Regards from
Tom :)



  
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: keep open table tool bar

[Tom Davies]

From: Avraham Hanadari 
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 7:24:49
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: keep open table tool bar

Le 18/02/2011 22:34, Tom Davies a écrit :
> Hi :)
> 
> I think that the View menu on the menu bar might help ...
> 
> View - Toolbars - Table
> 
> Then you might want to push the table toolbar to the side rather than have it
> vertical rather than horizontal.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
Thanks for your remarks.

I can select "Table" in View - Tool bars, and the table tool bar appears when 
the cursor in not in a table. I then go to the table to work there. When I 
return the cursor to a non-table part of the document, the table tool bar 
disappears. This still does not really lock the tool bar open all the time.

I have been docking the tool bar at the side for years (with OOo and now LO). 
This minimizes the disturbance but there is still annoying sideways movement as 
it appears or disappears.

Thanks again, Rick


Hi Rick :)

I think it's time to post a bug-report about that as once you have selected to 
show the toolbar all the time it shouldn't suddenly vanish without being 
de-selected deliberately.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport

How about putting the table-toolbar on the right-hand-side instead until the 
bug-report gets resolved?  Hopefully that might minimise the disruption for you.

Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



  
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 00:45, MR ZenWiz wrote:


I don't like the ribbon primarily because it takes up a huge amount of
vertical screen space


You do know you can minimize the ribbon?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file formats

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 01:28, Cliff Scott wrote:

** Reply to message from Gordon Burgess-Parker  on Fri,
18 Feb 2011 21:43:00 +


On 18/02/11 21:30, T. R. Valentine wrote:

On 18 February 2011 10:25,   wrote:

The biggest reason is our users do not remember to save in MS format when
sending files to customers and vendors. I am not sure a single customer of
ours could open an .odt file, for example, so we have to use formats our
customers and vendors can open.

Yes, I can see having LO/OO.o saving in MS formats by default for
accessibility for others. That is (unfortunately!) the reality.


Not at all. OO/LO has the wonderful function of File>Send>Email as MS
Word
So you can standardise on ODF internally and yet send as MS Word format
externally without having to do a Save-As and get two copies of the same
document...

Sounds like a great feature, but it doesn't work here. I am using a
non-standard mailer, but it is setup as the default mailer in the registry
and other programs like FireFox find it just fine, but neither LO or OOo can
find it. Has anyone made it actually work?




It works here both on Windows 7 with Outlook 2007 and Ubuntu 10.04 using 
Thunderbird as email client...
Shouldn't matter if you are using a "non-standard" email client 
(whatever that means) as long as that "non-standard" client is set as 
the default...



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