Re: [libreoffice-users] LibreOffice Impress Crashing

[soumalya ray]

no idea.sorry
is it happening with any particular file??

On 2 October 2011 11:51, Mr. Jack Nash III wrote:

> All,
>
> Anyone having issues with LibreOffice Impress crashing?  For some reason,
> Impress frequently shutdown, crashes.  I have the have to reopen it, go
> through the recovery process, and wait until the next crash comes along.
>
> Ubuntu Linux 11.04, 64bit
> LibreOffice 3.4
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Jack
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Impress & PowerPoint

[soumalya ray]

i usually do not face problem with ppt.with pptx there are lots of problems
but never with ppt.if possible,could you share the offending ppt file?
regards,

On 2 October 2011 10:27, Mr. Jack Nash III wrote:

> All,
>
> Has anyone been able to get PowerPoint´s to display correctly in
> LibreOffice
> Impress?  I am having a lot of trouble with .ppt and .pptx presentations,
> as
> they simply do not display well in LibreOffice.  The background, the text,
> the formatting, is all messed up and distorted.
>
> Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Here are the details of my environment:
>
> Ubuntu Linux 11.04, 64bit
> LibreOffice 3.4.3, OOO340m1 (Build: 302)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jack
>
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[libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Vinod Nadiadwala]

Hi,
I am migrating my company's pc to libreoffice on windows, all my users
are using windows terminal services, now i want to set default file save
format to MS-Office i.e. .doc, .xls, .ppt to all users.

I know how to do it manually, but i want to it to be applied to all
users using some registry entry or configuration file, is there any way to
do it, as i have 200+ pc's in my company and configuring each user is some
hectic job, let me know if solution if anybody have.



Thanks for the great job LibreOffice developers,

Vino

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[libreoffice-users] Ms-Office to LibreOffice migration guide / presentation slides

[Vinod Nadiadwala]

hi,
   I am migrating my company users to libreoffice on winodws platform, i
have around 200+ users in my organization, i would like to know is there any
good migration guide for libreoffice (i know about the openoffice 2.0
migration guide given on wiki), or presentation slides explaining the
migration difficulties. let me know, as i am also not an expert on Ms-Office
/ LibreOffice.

   if anybody want me to pay for the same, i am ready it.



Thanks
Vino

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Jean-Baptiste Faure]

Hi,

Le 02/10/2011 11:38, Vinod Nadiadwala a écrit :
> Hi,
> I am migrating my company's pc to libreoffice on windows, all my users
> are using windows terminal services, now i want to set default file save
> format to MS-Office i.e. .doc, .xls, .ppt to all users.

Bad idea. As MS-Office formats are foreign formats for LibreOffice, your
users wil have a less good user experience with LibO because you force
the software to make format conversions each time you open or save a
document.

I think other formats than ODF should be considered only as export
formats, like pdf is. Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
reference version.

JBF

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Ms-Office to LibreOffice migration guide / presentation slides

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Vino,

Vinod Nadiadwala wrote (02-10-11 11:41)


I am migrating my company users to libreoffice on winodws platform, i
have around 200+ users in my organization,


Good job!


[...]
 as i am also not an expert on Ms-Office / LibreOffice.


My strong advise: find you a local expert to help you.

--
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 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Ms-Office to LibreOffice migration guide / presentation slides

[Vinod Nadiadwala]

hi,
i don't to take help of any local expert, i want to do it on my own,
little study and i am sure that i can do it, i just want someone to prepare
presentation slides for me, as i have many other work to do, if anybody
interested please let me know.

thanks


On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Cor Nouws  wrote:

> Hi Vino,
>
> Vinod Nadiadwala wrote (02-10-11 11:41)
>
>
> I am migrating my company users to libreoffice on winodws platform, i
>> have around 200+ users in my organization,
>>
>
> Good job!
>
>  [...]
>>
>>  as i am also not an expert on Ms-Office / LibreOffice.
>>
>
> My strong advise: find you a local expert to help you.
>
> --
>  - Cor
>  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Ms-Office to LibreOffice migration guide / presentation slides

[Onyeibo Oku]

Very tempting request, but I'm writing documentation for a little extension I 
wrote for libreoffice. Would have made an interesting side-project. Goodluck 
with it though

-
from twohot@device.mobile :)

-Original Message-
From: Vinod Nadiadwala 
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 15:55:37 
To: Cor Nouws
Reply-To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Ms-Office to LibreOffice migration guide /
presentation slides

hi,
i don't to take help of any local expert, i want to do it on my own,
little study and i am sure that i can do it, i just want someone to prepare
presentation slides for me, as i have many other work to do, if anybody
interested please let me know.

thanks


On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Cor Nouws  wrote:

> Hi Vino,
>
> Vinod Nadiadwala wrote (02-10-11 11:41)
>
>
> I am migrating my company users to libreoffice on winodws platform, i
>> have around 200+ users in my organization,
>>
>
> Good job!
>
>  [...]
>>
>>  as i am also not an expert on Ms-Office / LibreOffice.
>>
>
> My strong advise: find you a local expert to help you.
>
> --
>  - Cor
>  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
>
>

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[libreoffice-users] multiple references to a footnote

[Stefano Mossa]

Hello,
I wonder if it is possible to reference multiple times the same footnote.
Thanks

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Pedro]

Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> Bad idea. As MS-Office formats are foreign formats for LibreOffice, your
> users wil have a less good user experience with LibO because you force
> the software to make format conversions each time you open or save a
> document.
> 

Yes, but that is what the user is asking for. Trying to convince people to
switch from Office suite AND file format seems to me the best way to repel
users...

Is there a way to do what he asked?


Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
> your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
> If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
> right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
> with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
> doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
> reference version.

That is IMO a bad idea. If you need to send an editable file and you work on
ODF, converting to Word at the last minute (i.e. before sending) is the
WORST option possible. It is almost 100% guaranteed that the document
(unless it's ONLY plain text) will NOT look the same.

So if you know that the person receiving it needs Doc, the best option is to
work on Doc from the start.

 
Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
> 

I agree completely ;)

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Re: [libreoffice-users] multiple references to a footnote

[Onyeibo Oku]

Cross references

-
from twohot@device.mobile :)

-Original Message-
From: Stefano Mossa 
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:00:58 
To: 
Reply-To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] multiple references to a footnote

Hello,
I wonder if it is possible to reference multiple times the same footnote.
Thanks

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[libreoffice-users] Re: multiple references to a footnote

[Pedro]

Yes, you can insert multiple references to any object (footnote, figure,
table, etc)

Go to Insert, Cross-reference and select Footnotes from the left column and
then choose the footnote you want to refer to on the top right list.

Curiously there seems to be a bug in the insert cross-reference that only
when you create the Footnote the reference is inserted as Superscript (as
expected). Future cross-references are inserted as normal text and you have
to manually format to Superscript...

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Jean-Baptiste Faure]

Le 02/10/2011 13:01, Pedro a écrit :
> [...]
> Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
>>
>> Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
>> your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
>> If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
>> right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
>> with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
>> doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
>> reference version.
> 
> That is IMO a bad idea. If you need to send an editable file and you work on
> ODF, converting to Word at the last minute (i.e. before sending) is the
> WORST option possible. It is almost 100% guaranteed that the document
> (unless it's ONLY plain text) will NOT look the same.
> 
> So if you know that the person receiving it needs Doc, the best option is to
> work on Doc from the start.

No, because you will have exactly the same problem: even if you save in
MS-Office formats, LibO use ODF as internal format, so you have a
conversion problem each time you save your file.

And it is not prohibited to be careful and check your converted file
before to send it.

On other hand if, during editing your document, you avoid the use of
manual formatting, use only predefined style (you can modify them
without problem) and do not use exotic fonts, then conversion problems
will be dramatically reduced.

JBF

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Andreas Säger]

Why not using standardized file formats in MS Office?



http://www.osor.eu/news/danish-hospital-hassle-free-use-of-odf-across-competing-office-suites
The Danish Århus University Hospital in Risskov, a long-time user of 
OpenOffice, says there are no problems at all exchanging ODF-based documents 
with other hospitals using Microsoft's proprietary Office 2003.




http://www.freeware-downloads.org/download/programm.php?pro=sun-odf-plugin




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: multiple references to a footnote

[Stefano Mossa]

Yes! Thanks.




On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Pedro  wrote:
> Yes, you can insert multiple references to any object (footnote, figure,
> table, etc)
>
> Go to Insert, Cross-reference and select Footnotes from the left column and
> then choose the footnote you want to refer to on the top right list.
>
> Curiously there seems to be a bug in the insert cross-reference that only
> when you create the Footnote the reference is inserted as Superscript (as
> expected). Future cross-references are inserted as normal text and you have
> to manually format to Superscript...
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/multiple-references-to-a-footnote-tp3387082p3387100.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Pedro]

Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> No, because you will have exactly the same problem: even if you save in
> MS-Office formats, LibO use ODF as internal format, so you have a
> conversion problem each time you save your file.
> 

That is a really interesting fact but also extremely worrying. I'm sure that
even with the warning most (all?) users assumed that if you stay within a
format (e.g. always doc) you wouldn't have problems when saving your
document.

What you are saying is that when you press the Save button in a doc file
(and you are not informed of this problem when you just Save it, only on
Save As) there is a conversion that causes the document NOT to be saved as
you are seeing it on-screen but could be something else completely
different...


Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> And it is not prohibited to be careful and check your converted file
> before to send it.
> 

That is true. But when you are working within the same format, you assume
that what is on screen is what is being saved!


Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> 
> On other hand if, during editing your document, you avoid the use of
> manual formatting, use only predefined style (you can modify them
> without problem) and do not use exotic fonts, then conversion problems
> will be dramatically reduced.
> 

That is sound advice. But most users aren't that efficient with styles ;)

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Andreas Säger]

Am 02.10.2011 13:49, Pedro wrote:


That is true. But when you are working within the same format, you assume
that what is on screen is what is being saved!



If you want to save what you see on the screen you've got to save a 
screenshot.



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[libreoffice-users] Libreoffice on Windows 2003 Terminal Services

[Vinod Nadiadwala]

Hi,
I am using Libreoffice 3.4 on Windows 2003 Terminal Services, i am
having 200+ users on terminal server, i am configuring some customized
menu's and settings in Libreofice but i have seen that it applies to current
user only, what is procedure to apply custmized menu & settings to all
users.

There must be some common registry setting / file which i can change to
apply changed customized menu to all users.


Vino

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Ms-Office to LibreOffice migration guide / presentation slides

[Cor Nouws]

Vinod Nadiadwala wrote (02-10-11 12:25)

hi,
 i don't to take help of any local expert, i want to do it on my own,
little study and i am sure that i can do it, i just want someone to prepare
presentation slides for me, as i have many other work to do, if anybody
interested please let me know.


So either you have a lot of time and quite good knowledge of the 
applications (and you write that you have none of those) or you find 
good support.
So, really sorry that I have to write you this, but since I do have 
experience in migrations: your approach does not sound as a recipe for 
success. And success is - after all - what you need.


Regards,

--
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 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[planas]

Hi

On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 13:31 +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: 

> Le 02/10/2011 13:01, Pedro a écrit :
> > [...]
> > Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> >>
> >> Work in ODF, save in ODF and, if you have to send
> >> your file, choose an export format accordingly to the usage of the file.
> >> If receiver of the document does not need to modify the file, pdf is the
> >> right format. If he needs to modify the document and is not able to work
> >> with ODF (nobody is perfect), then you should export your document to
> >> doc (MS-Office 97/2000/XP). But your ODF version should always be your
> >> reference version.
> > 
> > That is IMO a bad idea. If you need to send an editable file and you work on
> > ODF, converting to Word at the last minute (i.e. before sending) is the
> > WORST option possible. It is almost 100% guaranteed that the document
> > (unless it's ONLY plain text) will NOT look the same.
> > 
> > So if you know that the person receiving it needs Doc, the best option is to
> > work on Doc from the start.
> 
> No, because you will have exactly the same problem: even if you save in
> MS-Office formats, LibO use ODF as internal format, so you have a
> conversion problem each time you save your file.
> 
> And it is not prohibited to be careful and check your converted file
> before to send it.
> 
> On other hand if, during editing your document, you avoid the use of
> manual formatting, use only predefined style (you can modify them
> without problem) and do not use exotic fonts, then conversion problems
> will be 

My experience is that using default settings for features, avoiding
macros, and otherwise not using the most advanced features in LO and MSO
will result in very few compatibility problems in both directions. 

> dramatically reduced.
> 
> JBF
> 
> -- 
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
> 



-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-users] LibreOffice Impress Crashing

[planas]

On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 01:21 -0500, Mr. Jack Nash III wrote: 

> All,
> 
> Anyone having issues with LibreOffice Impress crashing?  For some reason,
> Impress frequently shutdown, crashes.  I have the have to reopen it, go
> through the recovery process, and wait until the next crash comes along.
> 
> Ubuntu Linux 11.04, 64bit
> LibreOffice 3.4
> 
> Any ideas?
> 

Is the problem just with Impress? One thought the might be problem is a
corrupted user file in the .libreoffice/3/user folder. It is normally a
hidden folder in your home folder, click on show hidden folders to see.
You can rename the 3 folder and then restart LO. A new 3 folder will be
installed and you move your templates and extensions back into the
folder 

> Jack
> 



-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)

You could copy the config folder as that contains all the settings, templates, 
galleries and extensions/add-ons/plugins and so on.  This thread might help 
explain 
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=12426

Somewhere in OpenOffice.org there were some excellent instrcutions for 
corporate deployments.
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sun, 2/10/11, Vinod Nadiadwala  wrote:

From: Vinod Nadiadwala 
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, 
ppt) etc..
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Sunday, 2 October, 2011, 10:38

Hi,
    I am migrating my company's pc to libreoffice on windows, all my users
are using windows terminal services, now i want to set default file save
format to MS-Office i.e. .doc, .xls, .ppt to all users.

    I know how to do it manually, but i want to it to be applied to all
users using some registry entry or configuration file, is there any way to
do it, as i have 200+ pc's in my company and configuring each user is some
hectic job, let me know if solution if anybody have.



Thanks for the great job LibreOffice developers,

Vino

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
All releases of LibreOffice have used ODF 1.2 (Extended) as the default 
format.  I think OpenOffice and most other programs have been using it for a 
long time too.  It's only MS Office that is still on the older 1.1/1.0 
formats.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sun, 2/10/11, Marc Paré  wrote:

From: Marc Paré 
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: disc...@documentfoundation.org
Date: Sunday, 2 October, 2011, 1:11

Hi Deni

Le 2011-09-30 21:17, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> The OASIS ODF 1.2 Committee Specification 01 has been successfully advanced 
> to an OASIS 
> Standard,.
>
> The final ballot results for approval of OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 is 
> at.
>
> Rob Weir has a nice summary on his 
> blog,.  He lists the 
> names of the contributors of 1.2 from the specification.  Some of those names 
> will be familiar here.
>
>   - Dennis
>
>

Congrats to the team, great news! I was wondering if we were already 
compliant with ODF1.2? If so we should market this along with 
LibreOffice -- backwards compatibility being fully supported of course.

Cheers,

Marc


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RE: [libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

With regard to customizing install settings for corporate 
deployment, this thread is the closest I found in a search
of all OpenOffice.org:

< http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38097>

Read from the end toward the front to find the most promising solution
rather than all the ways that failed first.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 17:09
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, 
xls, ppt) etc..

Hi :)

You could copy the config folder as that contains all the settings, templates, 
galleries and extensions/add-ons/plugins and so on.  This thread might help 
explain 
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=12426

Somewhere in OpenOffice.org there were some excellent instrcutions for 
corporate deployments.
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sun, 2/10/11, Vinod Nadiadwala  wrote:

From: Vinod Nadiadwala 
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, 
ppt) etc..
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Sunday, 2 October, 2011, 10:38

Hi,
I am migrating my company's pc to libreoffice on windows, all my users
are using windows terminal services, now i want to set default file save
format to MS-Office i.e. .doc, .xls, .ppt to all users.

I know how to do it manually, but i want to it to be applied to all
users using some registry entry or configuration file, is there any way to
do it, as i have 200+ pc's in my company and configuring each user is some
hectic job, let me know if solution if anybody have.



Thanks for the great job LibreOffice developers,

Vino

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RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Marc asks: How conformant is LibreOffice as a producer and consumer
of the OASIS ODF 1.2 Standard?

I don't know how to assess that.  I assume it is reasonably
conformant and that most documents that happen to be produced
are satisfactory to consumers that accept ODF 1.0/1.1 also.

I don't know if there is any kind of LibreOffice inventory
that indicates what is and is not supported and what happens
when something unsupported is encountered.  Also, I don't
know what deviations there might be in the ODF documents
that are produced.  There is no official test suite or
any kind of conformance assessment.  

The marketing-level statement of ODF 1.2 support was made
(it seems like) years ago, starting with 3.0 I think.  What
I don't know is what it means *technically*.  I don't know
how that would be determined.  Most of what users run into
don't have much to do with the format, methinks.

I'm not saying it isn't conformant, I just don't know what
how to assess how close it is.  Maybe there is a state-
ment somewhere.

Sorry.

-Original Message-
From: Marc Paré [mailto:m...@marcpare.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 17:11
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: disc...@documentfoundation.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[ ... ]

Congrats to the team, great news! I was wondering if we were already 
compliant with ODF1.2? If so we should market this along with 
LibreOffice -- backwards compatibility being fully supported of course.

Cheers,

Marc


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RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think there are a couple of bug-reports for deviations from the 1.2 format 
but probably some of that has been fixed by now.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Mon, 3/10/11, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: disc...@documentfoundation.org
Date: Monday, 3 October, 2011, 1:52

Marc asks: How conformant is LibreOffice as a producer and consumer
of the OASIS ODF 1.2 Standard?

I don't know how to assess that.  I assume it is reasonably
conformant and that most documents that happen to be produced
are satisfactory to consumers that accept ODF 1.0/1.1 also.

I don't know if there is any kind of LibreOffice inventory
that indicates what is and is not supported and what happens
when something unsupported is encountered.  Also, I don't
know what deviations there might be in the ODF documents
that are produced.  There is no official test suite or
any kind of conformance assessment.  

The marketing-level statement of ODF 1.2 support was made
(it seems like) years ago, starting with 3.0 I think.  What
I don't know is what it means *technically*.  I don't know
how that would be determined.  Most of what users run into
don't have much to do with the format, methinks.

I'm not saying it isn't conformant, I just don't know what
how to assess how close it is.  Maybe there is a state-
ment somewhere.

Sorry.

-Original Message-
From: Marc Paré [mailto:m...@marcpare.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 17:11
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: disc...@documentfoundation.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[ ... ]

Congrats to the team, great news! I was wondering if we were already 
compliant with ODF1.2? If so we should market this along with 
LibreOffice -- backwards compatibility being fully supported of course.

Cheers,

Marc


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Default file save format to MSOffice (doc, xls, ppt) etc..

[Brian Barker]

At 04:49 02/10/2011 -0700, Pedro Noname wrote:
What [someone was] saying is that when you press the Save button in 
a doc file (and you are not informed of this problem when you just 
Save it, only on Save As) there is a conversion that causes the 
document NOT to be saved as you are seeing it on-screen but could be 
something else completely different...

[...]
But when you are working within the same format, you assume that 
what is on screen is what is being saved!


It should clear that this cannot be true.  Much of the structure of a 
word processor document is not directly visible on the editing 
screen.  (Consider, just as an example, paragraph breaks, line 
breaks, and line ends that occur dynamically as text flows within a 
passage - which all appear the same.)  The saved document file 
contains a definition of the document, and what you see on the 
editing screen is merely a rendering - accurate or otherwise - of 
that definition.  Even the same application software may render the 
document differently on different platforms, with different but 
identically named fonts or even substituted fonts, with different 
printers having different minimum margins, and so on.  The 
differences between renderings by a different version of the same 
software or by different software will generally be greater.


It is an understandable and convenient idea that your correspondents 
will automatically see what you see when they open your word 
processor document files, but that is not so.  But you need 
distribute such files only if you are co-operating with your 
correspondents in editing the material.  In the majority of cases, 
recipients need only to display, read, and possibly print your work, 
so PDF documents are a better bet.  As its name suggests, this format 
is designed to be more portable.


Brian Barker


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[libreoffice-users] Assessing ODF Conformance (Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Tom Davis remarks that he's noticed a couple of ODF-related bugs for 
LibreOffice and it is presumed that they have been fixed.  That's good to know.

I want to discourage the notion that the absence of format-related bugs says 
anything about conformance.  Most bugs users and developers encounter are 
related to OpenOffice.org in operation and not the way it supports the ODF 
format in particular.  That is natural.  Most users have no sense of what is 
ODF-related and what is not.  Developers are usually dealing with bugs that 
deal with visible operational behavior, not handling of the ODF format in terms 
of what the ODF specifications say.

I don't mean the level of conformance is not high, but that bug reports don't 
determine that.  (This is just like the absence of bug reports not being 
evidence that there are no bugs.)

 - Dennis

AN EXAMPLE

I am fairly heavily involved in how ODF packaging works.  This involves some 
specifically-structured XML files included in a Zip archive.  That's what .odt, 
.odp, and .ods files are.

As an example, here is a set of test documents that examine one aspect of 
resilience of packages.  They exercise one very tiny case of legal variations 
in the rules for XML.  The files help confirm that those variations are being 
handled properly: < 
http://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/svn/oic/TestSuite/trunk/odf12/NameSpaceResilience/>.

This file describes what the variations in the documents are:


This web page describes the result of testing the 9 files against 10 different 
releases of ODF-supporting software:
< 
http://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/svn/oic/TestSuite/trunk/odf12/NameSpaceResilience/NameSpaceResilience-Results.htm>.

Now, almost all ODF implementations produce the variation in test-case 01.  The 
question is, do they consume the other two valid ones different than the ones 
they produce.  All but two accomplish that.

The six remaining cases involve invalid manifest documents according to the XML 
schema and the ODF specification.  In terms of resilience in the face of 
defects, the implementations are all over the map, as you can see.  These cases 
are not about conformance of course, because the inputs have defects.  But they 
do show something about resilience in the face of defects.  That can matter in 
how users are able to manage anyhow and especially if documents that are 
produced incorrectly (with regard to this simple case) turn up in the wild.

SUMMARY

This test goes beyond what a product produces, which may be valid, to look at 
what is valid that it does not produce.  Users of the same product will not see 
these cases unless there
is some odd change from one version of a release to another or there is 
interchange between different ODF-supporting products.

The score is pretty good for this one tiny aspect of conformance.  Resilience 
in the face of defects is a bonus category unrelated to conformance.

It takes (tens of) thousands of exercises like this to ferret out bugs in how 
valid ODF documents are handled by software that supports the format.  Or to 
confirm that provisions for correct documents are handled properly for a 
feature that is supported and resiliently for a feature that is not supported.  
Note that resilience can apply even when the ODF document is conformant but 
uses features that a given product release does not support.

-Original Message-
From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] 
< http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg11817.html>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 18:00
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

Hi :)
I think there are a couple of bug-reports for deviations from the 1.2 format 
but probably some of that has been fixed by now.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Mon, 3/10/11, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
< http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg11816.html>
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Cc: disc...@documentfoundation.org
Date: Monday, 3 October, 2011, 1:52

Marc asks: How conformant is LibreOffice as a producer and consumer
of the OASIS ODF 1.2 Standard?

I don't know how to assess that.  I assume it is reasonably
conformant and that most documents that happen to be produced
are satisfactory to consumers that accept ODF 1.0/1.1 also.

[ ... ]


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