Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[zed]

Toki  wrote:

> On 10/03/2017 07:46 AM, Krunose wrote:
> > And yes, seams something wrong with word count of html documents
> > opened in Writer. My test document has 62 words. Saved it as html,
> > opened it in Writer, counter says 70. But when I count by hand - still
> > 62 words on screen.
> 
> This gets into what constitutes a word. Definitions here are crucial. In
> your example, you gave both 62 and 70 as options. * If the 70 is based
> upon a printer's word, then there are 84 words, as counted by typists; *
> If the 70 is based upon a typist's word, then there are 58 words, as
> counted by printers; * If the 70 is based upon one of the other
> definitions of a word, then there are at least two more equally
> legitimate values that _accurately_ state the number of words in the
> text;
> 
> Getting back to Thomas' issue. How does the contract in question define
> "word"?  Once that is known, then an explanation of how to accurately
> determine the number of words in the Impress file can be provided.

When I learnt touch typing, way back in the '60s,  the average word was
deemed to be five keystrokes, e.g. the word "thaw+hittingn the spacebar"
counted as a word for  determining "words per minute typed. And, of
course, a word such as "costumier+spacebar" would count as two words, etc.

Zed 


zed
Diplomacy: The art of letting someone else get your way.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Thomas Blasejewicz]

On 2017/10/04 2:38, Toki wrote:

On 10/02/2017 04:13 PM, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:


(A similar question posted on the net somewhere was "closed, because it is 
irrelevant" ???)

I'll hazard an explanation, without looking at the specific question so
closed.

b) For presentations, regardless of how "word" is defined, words are not
fundamental to the final product. What matters is the aesthetics of each
frame, and the number of frames within the presentation. As such, words
are irrelevant;

Well, I do not want to be rude, but words (= their number) ***ARE***  
fundamental to the (my) final product.
As I said, I am given PPT files (I hate to work with those!!!) to  
TRANSLATE the content.
The _*number of words*_ (or the number of original (Japanese)  
characters) defines how much money I get.
I do not care about the "looks" of the file (or academic definitions of  
"word").


(from the Libreoffice Help page:
How does LibreOffice count words?
In general, every string of characters between two spaces is a word.  
Dashes, tabs, line breaks, and paragraph breaks are word limits, too.)


All I need to know is the number of words - counted in a way that is  
reproducible, since the translation agency will have its own opinion  
about that.

Thank you
Thomas

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Medical dictionary/thesaurus

[Joe Conner]

In my typing class in high school many years ago, words per minute 
typing speed was determined by the number of key strokes per minute 
divided by five.


Blessings, Joe


On 08/03/2014 07:48 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

On 08/02/2014 07:45 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote:
Would someone please suggest a medical dictionary/thesaurus for 
LibreOffice?
I've looked through the extension download site but haven't located 
any there.


Thanks, Tom



These two are a little out of date, but the worked on LibreOffice before.


http://libreoffice-na.us/English-4.2-installs/add-on-dictionaries-large-list/English-US-Medical-openmedspelApril-22-2008.oxt 


43,000 words

http://libreoffice-na.us/English-4.2-installs/add-on-dictionaries-large-list/Chemistry_Dictionary__technical_chemistry_words--ChemDictOOo2011-01-07.oxt 


105,000 words



--

A smile - is a sign of joy.
A hug - is a sign of love.
A laugh - is a sign of happiness.
And a friend like me??
...that's just a sign of good taste!!

Blessings, Joe Conner
Joshua 24:15 "...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."


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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[jorge Rodríguez]

Hi all:

    I really don't know how count the words the programs that do it ... 
but to be sense, a word has to be a "character or group of characters 
that has meaning by it self"


    As this, a number has meaning by it self, the special character has 
meaning by it self, a ";" doesn't have a meaning by it self because it 
is a grammar character to input to reader takes a breath and change a 
little about the topic is going on in the paragraph. And so on.


    But if the program take for example ";" as a word because it is a 
character, it is wrong to consider a literal translation but in the 
context the translator it would be taken because he has to build the 
translation using it to make a meaning of the translate.


    I think, to clear this topic, it is necessary that the translator 
think how to take some characters like ";", and investigate with the 
programmers of each program like Writer and Gedit, how they make the 
algorithm to count to be sure that he is taken the right quantity when 
is using those programs to his job.


    I hope this help,

Regards,

Jorge Rodríguez


El 03/10/2017 a las 11:38, Toki escribió:

On 10/02/2017 04:13 PM, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:


(A similar question posted on the net somewhere was "closed, because it is 
irrelevant" ???)

I'll hazard an explanation, without looking at the specific question so
closed.

a) There are four different ways to count the number of words in a text.
   Without knowing which definition was used for the term "
count the number of words", any formula that is used is going to provide
the wrong answer.

b) For presentations, regardless of how "word" is defined, words are not
fundamental to the final product. What matters is the aesthetics of each
frame, and the number of frames within the presentation. As such, words
are irrelevant;

c) There reason 10-20-30 is a law, is why frames should not contain words;

jonathon




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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Toki]

On 10/03/2017 05:26 PM, Krunose wrote:

> Writer shouldn't show different word count for odt file and different for 
> docx file. Same for plain text and HTML.

This gets into when presentation markup, structural markup, and
syntactical markup are treated as words that are explicitly content, and
when they are ignored, because they are background noise.

Think of it this way.
* Is white space background noise, or significant content?

If the algorithm treats white space as background noise, it will produce
a different count, than if treats white space as significant content.

One other potential issue, is legitimate, explicit content, being
flagged as background noise, because it contains a sub-string that can
be confused with markup.

jonathon

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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Toki]

On 10/02/2017 04:13 PM, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:

> (A similar question posted on the net somewhere was "closed, because it is 
> irrelevant" ???)

I'll hazard an explanation, without looking at the specific question so
closed.

a) There are four different ways to count the number of words in a text.
  Without knowing which definition was used for the term "
count the number of words", any formula that is used is going to provide
the wrong answer.

b) For presentations, regardless of how "word" is defined, words are not
fundamental to the final product. What matters is the aesthetics of each
frame, and the number of frames within the presentation. As such, words
are irrelevant;

c) There reason 10-20-30 is a law, is why frames should not contain words;

jonathon

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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Krunose]

On 03.10.2017 19:13, Toki wrote:

On 10/03/2017 07:46 AM, Krunose wrote:

And yes, seams something wrong with word count of html documents opened
in Writer. My test document has 62 words. Saved it as html, opened it in
Writer, counter says 70. But when I count by hand - still 62 words on
screen.

This gets into what constitutes a word. Definitions here are crucial.
In your example, you gave both 62 and 70 as options.
* If the 70 is based upon a printer's word, then there are 84 words, as
counted by typists;
* If the 70 is based upon a typist's word, then there are 58 words, as
counted by printers;
* If the 70 is based upon one of the other definitions of a word, then
there are at least two more equally legitimate values that _accurately_
state the number of words in the text;

Getting back to Thomas' issue. How does the contract in question define
"word"?  Once that is known, then an explanation of how to accurately
determine the number of words in the Impress file can be provided.

jonathon


I understand how mismatch in word count can happen by different  
definition on what word is, but how _same software_ can show different  
word count for HTML file and different for text file base only on file  
format (basically both plain text). HTML doesn't do anything what would  
change definition of a word thus mismatch in word count shouldn't be  
happening.


Writer shouldn't show different word count for odt file and different  
for docx file. Same for plain text and HTML.


Feel free to correct me as I want to understand this better.

Thanks,
Kruno










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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Toki]

On 10/03/2017 07:46 AM, Krunose wrote:
> And yes, seams something wrong with word count of html documents opened
> in Writer. My test document has 62 words. Saved it as html, opened it in
> Writer, counter says 70. But when I count by hand - still 62 words on
> screen.

This gets into what constitutes a word. Definitions here are crucial.
In your example, you gave both 62 and 70 as options.
* If the 70 is based upon a printer's word, then there are 84 words, as
counted by typists;
* If the 70 is based upon a typist's word, then there are 58 words, as
counted by printers;
* If the 70 is based upon one of the other definitions of a word, then
there are at least two more equally legitimate values that _accurately_
state the number of words in the text;

Getting back to Thomas' issue. How does the contract in question define
"word"?  Once that is known, then an explanation of how to accurately
determine the number of words in the Impress file can be provided.

jonathon




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[libreoffice-users] Re: Tabs and tab stops in text boxes

[Ken Springer]

On 10/2/17 11:57 AM, Regina Henschel wrote:

Hi Ken,

Ken Springer schrieb:

Hi, Regina,

Yes, I'm in Writer.

Why am I using a text box?  Because there is this nice (or not so nice,
depending on the icon set) icon in the toolbar area that says "Insert
Text Box".  There's no indication the icon refers to a graphic object as
opposed to a text object/frame.  Using the word "Text" logically implies
you will be working with text, and not graphics.


And to make is more confusing, you can add a "text box" to a custom
shape (a star e.g.) in Writer and that is an additional kind of "text box".


I seem to vaguely remember reading this somewhere.



Digging a little deeper...

Right click on the frame.  At the bottom of the context box, it says
"Object", not "Frame".  And it really should say "Frame Properties" so
the context box entry accurately describes what the link will take you to.


Open the "Styles" pane of the sidebar. The third icon from left selects
the tab "Frame styles". To these styles belong not only Frame, but
Formula, Graphics (that are images not shapes) and OLE too. They are all
kind of "Object". Therefore in some context not the specific but the
more general term "Object" is used.


Lots of options, but how does this solve the issue for the new user, who 
would have no clue what "Object" would do, but is likely to have a clue 
as to what "Properties" would do?



Shapes do not have styles in Writer but only in Draw and Impress.



Occasionally, I have had the same dialog box come up when right clicking
on a text box, but I can't reliably reproduce this.

Create a text frame the width of the page text area.  Height appears to
be unimportant.


You can set a minimal height which expands, if the content grows, or you
can set a fixed height.


This I knew, but my point here was, that for my example, the height 
doesn't matter.



Put a border on the bottom of the frame.  (This is for

reference only, so you can see what happens.)  Set the Vertical position
for Bottom to the page text area.

And look at that...  There's a gap between the frame and the page
margin.  :-)


A frame has an outer margin, a border and an inner padding (similar to
the box model in CSS
https://www.w3.org/TR/2011/REC-CSS2-20110607/box.html#box-dimensions).
Open "Properties" from the context menu (=right click) of the frame. Go
to tab "Wrap". The section "Spacing" contains the values for the outer
margin. Go to tab "Borders", the top right values are for "Padding". [It
will be called Padding in the next LibreOffice version.]


OK, I wasn't expecting page margins to be included in text wrap.  The 
language here is not intuitive.  To me, the words "text wrap" means the 
effect applies only to the text.




There's a similar problem with an inserted image.  Do similar to the
text frame, but position vertically to the top of the page area.  Add a
caption below the image


A caption to the image inserts a frame. The image and the paragraph with
the caption text are now content of the frame.

, and the image position is no longer next to the

top margin of the page.


You have to adjust margin and padding manually.


I think, from a user's perspective, especially a new user, once you 
position and size a graphic on the page, you expect it to stay there. 
Just as if you had glued it to a piece of paper.  You don't expect your 
graphic to move because of something else, unless attached to the 
paragraph.  But a new user is unlikely to know about anchoring overall.


I often feel as if developers eventually forget what it's like to be a 
new user, without all the knowledge they have accumulated over time. 
And they simply cannot view their product in this way, and design for 
that situation.




Now that you have a caption, the image position shifts away from the top
margin.



FWIW, with what I'm currently creating in LO, if I was being paid to
create documents similar to this, I would use, and recommend, a page
layout program.  :-)  But this gets me what I need to know and learn, so
I'm using LO.



If you will use LibreOffice like a layout program, you need a lot to
learn, because that is not the common use of Writer. Do not hesitate to
ask. LibreOffice has considerably more possibilities than a simple
office worker would imagined. Describe what you want to get and people
will give you tips how to get it.


I have no plans to use LO or any other word processing program as a page 
layout program.  I've found, among the programs I've looked at, that you 
should use the program that is designed for the job you want to do.  The 
more features you add, the harder it is to learn to use, the programs 
slow down in performance, and often the poorer job that is done.




--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 53.0.2  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 52.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Philip Jackson]

On 03/10/17 01:01, jorge Rodríguez wrote:
> Hi Thomas:
> 
>         I think that I have a solution using GNU / Linux Ubuntu, or
> maybe the solution it would be able with other program similar that you
> can find:
> 
>     1) Install the program: gpdftext (GTK+ text editor for ebook PDF
> files, gpdftext opens a simple text-based PDF file, typically
> intended for reading on an ebook reader and loads the text into a text
> editor window, autoformatting the text for long lines and paragraph breaks.
> gpdftext is useful when the downloaded PDF uses a small font or wastes a
> lot of space in the margins so that a plain text file would display in a
> more comfortable font. gpdftext supports spell checking and editor font
> selection
> and can save ASCII content as PDF.) Web site:
> https://sourceforge.net/directory/os:linux/?q=gpdftext
> 
>     2) Save the Impress Presentation in .pdf format
> 
>     3) Open the Impress Presentation with gpdftext
> 
>     4) gpdftext convert the .pdf document in simple format text
> 
>     5) Save the document as .txt
> 
>     6) Open the document with Writer an use the tool that it has: Menu->
> Word Count

Thank you Jorge for bringing gpdftext to my attention. Amazing how one
can still find new tools within systems already in use since several years.

I hope the OP doesn't require too high a level of precision in his count
of the words. I just tested a pdf file with gpdftest. Then I opened it
in gedit [a text editor which provides stats] which gave me 553 words.

Then I tried Writer and it gave 567 words. OK - that is not a large
discrepancy and there again the document was very small but 2 1/2% could
be significant.

The only stat that gedit and Writer did agree on was the number of
characters excluding spaces.

Philip

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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Krunose]

On 03.10.2017 07:41, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:

On 2017/10/03 4:03, Krunose wrote:

On 02.10.2017 18:13, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:

Good evening
It happens once in a while .. I have to work (translate) PPT files  
for which I use Impress and then need to know the number of words.

In the entire file.
So far I could not figure out, whether there is a way to count all  
words in an Impress file.
(A similar question posted on the net somewhere was "closed, because  
it is irrelevant" ???)


Today I found, that one can get a word count in the real PPT by  
looking at properties.


Is there such a trick for Impress?

Thank you.
Thomas



I don't know about better solution but you could save presentation as  
html (as one file) and then open that file in Writer.


Could this work for you?

Kruno

Under "save as" I cannot find anything resembling "html", so the file  
has to be "exported" as xhtml.

But THAT give you all that computer language, which will NOT! be paid.


Well, shouldn't be like that :) ODT file format is also markup and  
Writer doesn't include that to word count when you edit odt files.  
Writer reads (x)html so it should not count markup tags. If it does -  
it's Writer's fault. It's problem with counter or with Writer's  
capabilities in reading (x)html. Shouldn't be like that




So the count for a test file I opened should be somewhere around 30  
pages (translation), but the word/character count

in Writer gives a count like 350 pages.


That's problem with page brakes, not words (or word count). I can spread  
30 words on 30 pages or have them all on one page, but that should still  
be 30 words.



If the companies would pay me that much, that would be wonderfull,  
however that is unfortunately not how the world works ...


When I export it as html, I get a count of 52 words. That is obviously  
not correct either.


And yes, seams something wrong with word count of html documents opened  
in Writer. My test document has 62 words. Saved it as html, opened it in  
Writer, counter says 70. But when I count by hand - still 62 words on  
screen.


What you can do now is save that as plain text and then reopen in  
Writer. That _will_ give you correct word count.


Jorge's solution is better but complicated for that much.

There must be some software you can obtain without fees and legally that  
can do word count on HTML files as that would save you trouble of  
endless re-saving in different formats.




Apparently, this does not work.


I'll argue it does :D

Kruno



Thomas




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Re: [libreoffice-users] word count in impress

[Dries Feys]

Hi,

Save as pdf, and send it through this (or a similar) tool :
http://www.montereylanguages.com/pdf-word-count-online-free-tool.html

Met vriendelijke groeten, Salutations distinguées, Kind Regards,

DRIES FEYS
CORPORATE SERVICES • Incident Manager



On 3 October 2017 at 07:41, Thomas Blasejewicz  wrote:
> On 2017/10/03 4:03, Krunose wrote:
>>
>> On 02.10.2017 18:13, Thomas Blasejewicz wrote:
>>>
>>> Good evening
>>> It happens once in a while .. I have to work (translate) PPT files for
>>> which I use Impress and then need to know the number of words.
>>> In the entire file.
>>> So far I could not figure out, whether there is a way to count all words
>>> in an Impress file.
>>> (A similar question posted on the net somewhere was "closed, because it
>>> is irrelevant" ???)
>>>
>>> Today I found, that one can get a word count in the real PPT by looking
>>> at properties.
>>>
>>> Is there such a trick for Impress?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>
>> I don't know about better solution but you could save presentation as html
>> (as one file) and then open that file in Writer.
>>
>> Could this work for you?
>>
>> Kruno
>>
> Under "save as" I cannot find anything resembling "html", so the file has to
> be "exported" as xhtml.
> But THAT give you all that computer language, which will NOT! be paid.
> So the count for a test file I opened should be somewhere around 30 pages
> (translation), but the word/character count
> in Writer gives a count like 350 pages.
> If the companies would pay me that much, that would be wonderfull, however
> that is unfortunately not how the world works ...
>
> When I export it as html, I get a count of 52 words. That is obviously not
> correct either.
>
> Apparently, this does not work.
> Thomas
>
>
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