Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi :) Hmmm, pen&ink or pencil is a good option for printed guides. I thought that was what margins were for? Unfortunately it's not so easy to share or copy&paste from whereas a wiki is easy to disseminate. Since it does headings and the Table of Contents and makes the ToC clickable automatically it's not hugely difficult for readers either. Wiki's are a quick way to get a good result even if it's garbage-in. Quite often people that are new to wiki-editing find other people tidy-up their edits if they have only just plonked down unformatted content. (or made a right pigs-ear of it). As you play around with it and find odd hints&tips your formatting gets better but that doesn't necessarily improve your contents so you start hunting around for other newer people's content to help their's look nicer. So it kinda depends on new people joining in all the time or on people having more Areas of Knowledge than they can write-up quickly. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 11/7/12, Ken Springer wrote: From: Ken Springer Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wednesday, 11 July, 2012, 3:16 Hi, Tom, On 7/7/12 5:59 PM, Tom Davies wrote: > I think one advantage of wiki's is that they are easy for anyone to update > anytime. > Hopefully information from that gets fed into blogs and official > documentation and > maybe even the help files. The question I would pose to you is, is the wiki designed for the ease of use for people updating the information, or for the ease of use of the people needing help? A solution for one group does not automatically make that solution the best for another group. With printed documentation, one of the perennial complaints everywhere is the difficulty in updating the data. To which I say, a lot of that is hogwash to me. I figured out a way to minimize the difficulty in updating the information close to 20 years ago. I keep waiting for various "brain trusts" to put out a document using that solution, but it seems to be more than they can handle. :-) I think I'll just keep my secret for my own use. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi, Tom, On 7/7/12 5:59 PM, Tom Davies wrote: I think one advantage of wiki's is that they are easy for anyone to update anytime. Hopefully information from that gets fed into blogs and official documentation and > maybe even the help files. The question I would pose to you is, is the wiki designed for the ease of use for people updating the information, or for the ease of use of the people needing help? A solution for one group does not automatically make that solution the best for another group. With printed documentation, one of the perennial complaints everywhere is the difficulty in updating the data. To which I say, a lot of that is hogwash to me. I figured out a way to minimize the difficulty in updating the information close to 20 years ago. I keep waiting for various "brain trusts" to put out a document using that solution, but it seems to be more than they can handle. :-) I think I'll just keep my secret for my own use. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
i :) I think one advantage of wiki's is that they are easy for anyone to update anytime. Hopefully information from that gets fed into blogs and official documentation and maybe even the help files. Star Trek computers can do pretty much anything by just asking it to do whatever and people seem to expect their machines to be able to do the same. The physics in most sci-fi has been referred to a "Want'em Physics" I really liked Ken's remarks and agree that the average skill level does appear to have dropped or even plummeted. People are expected to just instantly understand some very complex ideas with no training. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 5/7/12, Ken Springer wrote: From: Ken Springer Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 5 July, 2012, 14:43 On 7/5/12 2:41 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: > All this had been written hundreds of times for dozends of spreadsheets > applications in books, web-pages, mailing lists and forums. People don't > read this. I know, but I have a hard time blaming X percent of them. I run into many users who have no clue such information even exists or go about finding it. They aren't "into" computers enough to search the web (occasionally they still have dial-up) as computers aren't major parts of their life, and library access can be minimal. And no clue that all of the spreadsheets are very similar. You can make that argument for lots of things. There's hundreds of books on automotive electrical systems, but you still have people wanting a Ford manual to get specific information, for example. I would be willing to bet the computer skills of the "average" computer user 30 years ago was higher than it is today. > They want to have it explained for the exact problem they > struggle with *right now* without ever telling any details about their > problem. People want computers they can talk to and the machine resolves > all the contradictions, completes missing information before it spills > out the correct solution. Since today's machines fail at fuzzy logic, > they try to find some human to resolve and complete All of this I attribute to the "instant gratification" we get today with computers and related electronics. Want a book? Download it to an ereader, who has to wait for it to be shipped to you? No need to go to the store and look for something, buy it online. Etc., etc., etc. > or even better: > write a macro program so a single click substitutes 5 clicks. When I was using my Atari 16/32 bit machines with Neodesk, I had macros for desktop operations all the time, for the very reason you mentioned. These were actions I repeated often. Now, most of those reasons I used macros for are part of the OS and/or software. And I don't do enough repetitive stuff to actually get much value from a macro recorder. I think a certain percentage are too lazy to learn how to do it, and another percentage don't know what a macro is. :-( Rather than write a macro program, I'd download an open source or free one. :-) No offense intended, but to me to suggest writing a macro program, unless you have a very special need, is like reinventing the wheel. :-) > IF function with example: >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_IF_function Maybe a lot of these types of links could be incorporated into LO's Help pages and/or on a free disk image you can download. Perhaps Webmaster Krackedpress ND DVD too. I don't know what's on that disk. Wiki pages tend to baffle me, I just can never discover any "structure" like a newsgroup that makes sense to me. And the wasted space. :-( And they are never as efficient in use as a well designed book with a well designed index. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 7/5/12 2:41 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: All this had been written hundreds of times for dozends of spreadsheets applications in books, web-pages, mailing lists and forums. People don't read this. I know, but I have a hard time blaming X percent of them. I run into many users who have no clue such information even exists or go about finding it. They aren't "into" computers enough to search the web (occasionally they still have dial-up) as computers aren't major parts of their life, and library access can be minimal. And no clue that all of the spreadsheets are very similar. You can make that argument for lots of things. There's hundreds of books on automotive electrical systems, but you still have people wanting a Ford manual to get specific information, for example. I would be willing to bet the computer skills of the "average" computer user 30 years ago was higher than it is today. They want to have it explained for the exact problem they struggle with *right now* without ever telling any details about their problem. People want computers they can talk to and the machine resolves all the contradictions, completes missing information before it spills out the correct solution. Since today's machines fail at fuzzy logic, they try to find some human to resolve and complete All of this I attribute to the "instant gratification" we get today with computers and related electronics. Want a book? Download it to an ereader, who has to wait for it to be shipped to you? No need to go to the store and look for something, buy it online. Etc., etc., etc. or even better: write a macro program so a single click substitutes 5 clicks. When I was using my Atari 16/32 bit machines with Neodesk, I had macros for desktop operations all the time, for the very reason you mentioned. These were actions I repeated often. Now, most of those reasons I used macros for are part of the OS and/or software. And I don't do enough repetitive stuff to actually get much value from a macro recorder. I think a certain percentage are too lazy to learn how to do it, and another percentage don't know what a macro is. :-( Rather than write a macro program, I'd download an open source or free one. :-) No offense intended, but to me to suggest writing a macro program, unless you have a very special need, is like reinventing the wheel. :-) IF function with example: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_IF_function Maybe a lot of these types of links could be incorporated into LO's Help pages and/or on a free disk image you can download. Perhaps Webmaster Krackedpress ND DVD too. I don't know what's on that disk. Wiki pages tend to baffle me, I just can never discover any "structure" like a newsgroup that makes sense to me. And the wasted space. :-( And they are never as efficient in use as a well designed book with a well designed index. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 04.07.2012 17:42, Ken Springer wrote: For the ordinary user, not only does LO need to explain the basics by using "=FUNCTION(number ; text ; range ; vector )" and "=FUNCTION( function_number(x) ; function_text(x) ; function_range(x) ; function_vector(x) )" with explanations, you need examples that use real references from a sample spreadsheet, like "=IF(C49="Y",O49,"")". This way the ordinary user sees an example of how to actually enter the formula with proper formatting. I know this is not a simple or easy task. I've written instructions for All this had been written hundreds of times for dozends of spreadsheets applications in books, web-pages, mailing lists and forums. People don't read this. They want to have it explained for the exact problem they struggle with *right now* without ever telling any details about their problem. People want computers they can talk to and the machine resolves all the contradictions, completes missing information before it spills out the correct solution. Since today's machines fail at fuzzy logic, they try to find some human to resolve and complete or even better: write a macro program so a single click substitutes 5 clicks. IF function with example: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_IF_function -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi, Andreas, Sorry for the late reply, but I just came off 4 workdays, 11 hours each plus commuting time. :-) I didn't have time to do any newsgroup replies. Comments for discussion, not for assistance. :-) On 6/30/12 10:54 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 30.06.2012 14:09, Ken Springer wrote: It was the actual formatting of the functions in the cell that was the problem. Do I need parens here? Should there be a space and capitals? How are the functions I need supposed to be entered, as a group, into the cell? Should these two functions be grouped in parens? Each and every function call is followed by a pair of parens. =NOW without parens returns the value of a cell named "NOW" (it is possible to give names to cells). Function with no parameter: =NOW() returns the current time as number _Try_out_: =NOW(13) --> Err:508 13 is pointless when you want to know the time. Function with exactly one parameter: =UPPER(A1) returns the text in A1 in upper case letters. Only functions of category "Text" return text. _Try_out_: =UPPER(A1,13,A2) --> Err:508 =UPPER() --> Err:510 And from another message: On 6/28/12 11:42 PM, Andreas Säger wrote: > Hi, > > Like any other programming language Calc can nest functions as far as > the data types of the incoming parameters match the data types of the > nested function results. The details are mostly the same as with any > other spreadsheet program of the past 30 years with the only exception > that there is no boolean data type. TRUE equals 1, FALSE equals 0 > without any conversion. > > A Calc cell can have a number, text, blank and error. All constants are > number or text, a formula may return number, text or error. > > =FUNCTION(number ; text ; range ; vector ) > > *should* be nested like this: > >> =FUNCTION( function_number(x) ; function_text(x) ; function_range(x) ; function_vector(x) ) > > [a vector is a range made of a single row or column. Sometimes this > shape is required] Some time back, there was a thread, I think in this list, wondering why people didn't use databases. I think you can ask the same question of spreadsheets and word processors, why don't users use them more often and more effectively? I've said for years and years, the ordinary user does not have the knowledge necessary to get the most from these types of programs. If LO wants users to be able to use LO effectively, they need to find a way to educate the ordinary user on the very simple basics. When 8-bit computers were cutting edge, you could go to almost any magazine rack and find numerous computer related magazines that taught you the very basics. I don't see that now. :-( It seems today's writers all assume the reader has that knowledge, but there is always someone that doesn't. And I think many of today's writers simply do not know how to communicate with the ordinary user using language the ordinary user understands. Chapter 7 of the Calc manual is a great start, but currently it doesn't provide enough information for the ordinary user, IMO. Somehow, the LO documentation writers need to get all of the information into something that can be downloaded. Maybe documentation for beginners and for advanced users. Maybe provide the information in some type of CD/DVD disk image file that includes both software and documentation that can be downloaded, and include instructions as to how to make that disk image useable. The information you provided me is something for advanced users, IMO. And I'm not advanced enough anymore! LOL I've forgotten a lot of my advanced math (algebra, trigonometry, etc.) that I learned years and years ago. For the ordinary user, not only does LO need to explain the basics by using "=FUNCTION(number ; text ; range ; vector )" and "=FUNCTION( function_number(x) ; function_text(x) ; function_range(x) ; function_vector(x) )" with explanations, you need examples that use real references from a sample spreadsheet, like "=IF(C49="Y",O49,"")". This way the ordinary user sees an example of how to actually enter the formula with proper formatting. I know this is not a simple or easy task. I've written instructions for small projects over the years. I even helped write the help files for a software program on a computer system that's been gone from the marketplace for years. LO has made a great start in this area, and I tell everyone this, but I see a long way to go. I wish they would stop trying to add new features, and accomplish two things: 1) Get the documentation caught up with the current release, so when a new release comes out, the documentation matches. 2) *FIX THE BUGS*!!! Just my two cents.:-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: htt
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 30.06.2012 14:52, Ken Springer wrote: What frustrates me is there seems to be very few "simple and easy" to grasp and use database programs anymore. Some database such as MySQL is a development tool for well paid professional computer geeks. To some extent you need to get the same way of abstract thinking in order to get a small but consistent database structure. Something like Base is a development tool on top of some database. Having a properly designed database, it is _comparatively_ easy (but still development work) to build forms and reports on top of it. We _use_ databases each and every day when we start up our WIndows box (registry), a Linux box (find utils, package database), when we google, buy a book at Amazone, when we write something to this list (nabble database), facebook, or wordpress (content managment database). Developing a database is hard work, designing the utilities for a database can be fun, using the utilities should be very, very easy (much easier than using a spreadsheet properly). Everything is migrating to the power that MS Access (the Mack truck) has, when possibly all you need is an electronic 3X5 file card system (compact pickup). People get very angry when you tell them that Base is even more limited than MS Access. They want everything, now, for free. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 30.06.2012 14:09, Ken Springer wrote:
After reading your other new replies, I'm wondering if the way I wrote
my posts led you to some wrong conclusions. Possibly, it came out
sounding more complicated than the problem really was, as I did get it
solved.
It wasn't the logic or the functions that needed to be used that was my
problem, that was easy. :-)
It was the actual formatting of the functions in the cell that was the
problem. Do I need parens here? Should there be a space and capitals?
How are the functions I need supposed to be entered, as a group, into
the cell? Should these two functions be grouped in parens?
Each and every function call is followed by a pair of parens.
=NOW without parens returns the value of a cell named "NOW" (it is
possible to give names to cells).
Function with no parameter:
=NOW() returns the current time as number
_Try_out_: =NOW(13) --> Err:508 13 is pointless when you want to know
the time.
Function with exactly one parameter:
=UPPER(A1) returns the text in A1 in upper case letters.
Only functions of category "Text" return text.
_Try_out_: =UPPER(A1,13,A2) --> Err:508
=UPPER() --> Err:510
Function with 2 parameters plus one optional parameter:
=MATCH(A1,$X$1:$X$99) looks up A1 in ascending scale X1:X99 returning
the position number.
=MATCH(A1,$X$1:$X$99,0) looks up exact match of A1 in X1:X99
=MATCH(A1,$X$1:$X$99,1) same as first variant
_Try_out_: =MATCH()
=MATCH(A1)
=MATCH(A1;$X$1:$Z$99) --> Err:504
=MATCH(A1,$X$1:$X$99,3,4)
Function with at least one parameter and up to 30:
=SUM(A1:A99) --> sum of all numbers in vertical vector A1:A99 (one
parameter, up to 99 values)
=SUM(13) --> 13 (obsolete sum of 1 value)
=SUM(A1:A99,B3:F3,X1:Z13,12) sum of all numbers in a vertical vector, a
horizontal vector, a 2-dimensional range plus number 12 (4 parameters)
_Try_out_: =SUM()
=SUM("123",13)
=SUM(1,2,3,4)
You may add more parens according to common rules (1+2)*13=39 vs. 1+2*13=27
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[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/30/12 5:33 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 30.06.2012 02:37, Ken Springer wrote: And I've not been able to come up with a competent explanation of what I'm trying to accomplish. :) That's what *you* have got to explain to the application. Any competent resource on spreadsheets tells you how to tell anything to the application. That's were people fail because abstract thinking as totally fallen off the cultural horizon. You can not expect that the spreadsheet does anything for you. It's you who can learn how to make it do something useful. Otherwise get some handheld device and buy some app which does exactly what you wanna do right now. It has been told to me that this is the future of computing. Uhm, I actually meant, I was having a hard time telling readers of this thread what I was trying to do, not the spreadsheet. :-) But you are right, abstract thinking *and* critical thinking skills are no longer being taught anymore. As the old saying goes, computers don't do what you want them to do, they do what you tell them to do. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/30/12 5:28 AM, Dan wrote: When it comes to databases, it is always a matter of planning and designing. Doing this correctly may result in a subcompact car rather than a Mack truck for a simple database. Obviously, when you want more a more complex output, it will increase in complexity. That is so true. You have to cover all of the "bases" of what your want to be able to do with the data before you even begin to design. What frustrates me is there seems to be very few "simple and easy" to grasp and use database programs anymore. Everything is migrating to the power that MS Access (the Mack truck) has, when possibly all you need is an electronic 3X5 file card system (compact pickup). I was going to create a simple relational database for my inlaws, but it didn't require the complexity and sophistication of Access. I thought I'd found one, I knew exactly what I wanted and needed it to do, but when I got far enough along, I found out the reporting section couldn't access data from multiple databases. That did me no good. I would think that the same thing holds for creating a spreadsheet: take the time to plan and design what you want. This plan must contain enough detail to describe every function to be used in the spreadsheet, and the functions' input requirements and output characteristics. Without a good plan and design, the results are likely to be rather poor. Problems are likely that have to be corrected which takes time and can create frustration. As I just wrote to Andreas, it wasn't the logic or anything else that was the issue, it was how to get it correctly entered that was the problem. And I personally didn't find the Function Wizard to be that helpful the first time out. I found it easier to just experiment manually entering various combinations till I found the answer. Maybe that way was easier for me, as the first spreadsheet I ever used was VisiCalc for the Atari 800. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi, Andreas, On 6/30/12 2:25 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Ken, There is no way to help further without a single formula nor data. I have no idea what your problem is. Like in any programming language un-nesting is a good way to debug steps. Threre are a billion of cells on each sheet. Use as many as possible and things will clear up. After reading your other new replies, I'm wondering if the way I wrote my posts led you to some wrong conclusions. Possibly, it came out sounding more complicated than the problem really was, as I did get it solved. It wasn't the logic or the functions that needed to be used that was my problem, that was easy. :-) It was the actual formatting of the functions in the cell that was the problem. Do I need parens here? Should there be a space and capitals? How are the functions I need supposed to be entered, as a group, into the cell? Should these two functions be grouped in parens? I think I said in another post, I even had an error code pop up that's not in the documentation that is currently available. But, the formatting is solved, and all is well. :-) Thanks for the replies. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 30.06.2012 02:37, Ken Springer wrote: And I've not been able to come up with a competent explanation of what I'm trying to accomplish. :) That's what *you* have got to explain to the application. Any competent resource on spreadsheets tells you how to tell anything to the application. That's were people fail because abstract thinking as totally fallen off the cultural horizon. You can not expect that the spreadsheet does anything for you. It's you who can learn how to make it do something useful. Otherwise get some handheld device and buy some app which does exactly what you wanna do right now. It has been told to me that this is the future of computing. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Ken Springer wrote: On 6/28/12 11:42 PM, Andreas Säger wrote: Hi, Like any other programming language Calc can nest functions as far as the data types of the incoming parameters match the data types of the nested function results. The details are mostly the same as with any other spreadsheet program of the past 30 years with the only exception that there is no boolean data type. TRUE equals 1, FALSE equals 0 without any conversion. A Calc cell can have a number, text, blank and error. All constants are number or text, a formula may return number, text or error. =FUNCTION(number ; text ; range ; vector ) *should* be nested like this: =FUNCTION( function_number(x) ; function_text(x) ; function_range(x) ; function_vector(x) ) [a vector is a range made of a single row or column. Sometimes this shape is required] The function wizard can be of great help when composing nested functions. Personally, I avoid deeply nested function calls. They are much harder to maintain and debug. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_Functions_listed_by_category Apart from the functions of category "Text" all spreadsheet functions return numbers. Functions of category "Spreadsheet" return references to other cells. I *think* I follow most of that. LOL I did finally get the cells to do what I wanted, I think as I've not tested fully yet. But, the documentation or the Function Wizard wasn't much help, as there are no examples of actually what the input should look like. Even got an error code that's not in the documentation. And even with the text for the error code, nothing explains what the text for the error code means. I just kept trying different things until it worked!LOL Am 29.06.2012 04:04, Ken Springer wrote: I rarely use spreadsheets, as doing mathematical calculations are rare for me. Many use spreadsheets for databases, but I would use a database. And probably not LO Base, as there was something written about Base in this list I couldn't believe was true, but sadly, I'm not sure what that was. LOL, CRS! Base is not a database. Please feel free to use your preferred connectable database and connect it with a Base document in order to use it in the context of this office suite. I do so successfully since many years (OOo 1.1) within the limits of this very simple tool set. A decent database is not exclusively bound to one particular front-end. And this is far more sophisticated that what I'm usually looking for. It just seems that most databases out there are very sophisticated and potentially complicated for the average person, so they use spreadsheets and developers wonder why. :-) So many of the database apps and front ends amount to a Mack truck, when all the average user needs is a compact pickup! LOL When it comes to databases, it is always a matter of planning and designing. Doing this correctly may result in a subcompact car rather than a Mack truck for a simple database. Obviously, when you want more a more complex output, it will increase in complexity. I would think that the same thing holds for creating a spreadsheet: take the time to plan and design what you want. This plan must contain enough detail to describe every function to be used in the spreadsheet, and the functions' input requirements and output characteristics. Without a good plan and design, the results are likely to be rather poor. Problems are likely that have to be corrected which takes time and can create frustration. --Dan -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 30.06.2012 02:17, Ken Springer wrote: chapters are there before they get put together to form the entire book. Unfortunately, there's nothing there for 3.5.x.x.:-( And the Formula Wizard is different in 3.5.x.x. I compared the wizard in 3.5 with the one in OOo 1.1 of 2004. Apart from the window title they are identical. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Ken, There is no way to help further without a single formula nor data. I have no idea what your problem is. Like in any programming language un-nesting is a good way to debug steps. Threre are a billion of cells on each sheet. Use as many as possible and things will clear up. Have a nice weekend, A.S. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/28/12 11:42 PM, Andreas Säger wrote: Hi, Like any other programming language Calc can nest functions as far as the data types of the incoming parameters match the data types of the nested function results. The details are mostly the same as with any other spreadsheet program of the past 30 years with the only exception that there is no boolean data type. TRUE equals 1, FALSE equals 0 without any conversion. A Calc cell can have a number, text, blank and error. All constants are number or text, a formula may return number, text or error. =FUNCTION(number ; text ; range ; vector ) *should* be nested like this: =FUNCTION( function_number(x) ; function_text(x) ; function_range(x) ; function_vector(x) ) [a vector is a range made of a single row or column. Sometimes this shape is required] The function wizard can be of great help when composing nested functions. Personally, I avoid deeply nested function calls. They are much harder to maintain and debug. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_Functions_listed_by_category Apart from the functions of category "Text" all spreadsheet functions return numbers. Functions of category "Spreadsheet" return references to other cells. I *think* I follow most of that. LOL I did finally get the cells to do what I wanted, I think as I've not tested fully yet. But, the documentation or the Function Wizard wasn't much help, as there are no examples of actually what the input should look like. Even got an error code that's not in the documentation. And even with the text for the error code, nothing explains what the text for the error code means. I just kept trying different things until it worked!LOL Am 29.06.2012 04:04, Ken Springer wrote: I rarely use spreadsheets, as doing mathematical calculations are rare for me. Many use spreadsheets for databases, but I would use a database. And probably not LO Base, as there was something written about Base in this list I couldn't believe was true, but sadly, I'm not sure what that was. LOL, CRS! Base is not a database. Please feel free to use your preferred connectable database and connect it with a Base document in order to use it in the context of this office suite. I do so successfully since many years (OOo 1.1) within the limits of this very simple tool set. A decent database is not exclusively bound to one particular front-end. And this is far more sophisticated that what I'm usually looking for. It just seems that most databases out there are very sophisticated and potentially complicated for the average person, so they use spreadsheets and developers wonder why. :-) So many of the database apps and front ends amount to a Mack truck, when all the average user needs is a compact pickup! LOL -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/28/12 3:38 AM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 7:57 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one of the chapters or appendices. Hi, Dan. I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( But you won't know until you look will you? Guessing the content based upon another guide might be a mistake. Didn't mean that to sound like I wasn't going to check it out. Call it getting old and finding my expectations of useability of vendor supplied publications over the years to be lacking what I want to know. :-) Then perhaps I have been pointing out a possible error in your attitude. At age 70, my computer has user guides for Calc, Draw, Impress, and Writer. If I run into a problem, I go to one of them for the answer. So, what does age have to do with it? Before I made my second reply, I looked at the table of contents for the Calc Guide. I notice that Appendix B has 40 pages (8.5x11) on Calc functions. Lots of info on the functions and what they do, very little on how to use them with practical examples. If I want to nest functions, I can click a cell and then click the function wizard. It will help me put them in the proper order. (You did not mention if you used this or not. Nor do I know if this works on the number of nesting that you want.) So far, I've not been able to get the Function Wizard to give me what I want. :-( And I've not been able to come up with a competent explanation of what I'm trying to accomplish. :) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi, Tom, On 6/28/12 3:29 AM, Tom Davies wrote: This link has the guides but also has links to 3rd party documentation and stuff https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications The official guides are uploaded there before officially released on the website and individual chapters are there before they get put together to form the entire book. Unfortunately, there's nothing there for 3.5.x.x.:-( And the Formula Wizard is different in 3.5.x.x. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 28.06.2012 02:43, Jay Lozier wrote: Generally you can nest functions several levels deep in any spreadsheet. Typically the maximum is 7 levels but I would not go beyond about 3 because it becomes to difficult to follow the logic. You could have something like =if( (x or y), if( (a and b), sum(d:d),average(d:d)),stdev(d:d)). And D:D is exactly the thing that does _NOT_ work in Calc. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 29.06.2012 10:49, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: Is there a place where users can "drop off" a description on how to do something that is not explained in the current documentation? The current docs are "guides" and not "how-to" books. For me, "how-to" books are more example driven where there are 100's of examples on how to do specific "things". Then there is the detailed reference books. Look at Python books. You get a basic guide book, a thicker "how-to" book, and a thick resource book explaining in detail all the built in functions in the various resource libraries. You cannot expect our doc people to create a "guide" that does all three at the same time. Being an interactive programming language for non-programmers, spreadsheets are generic tools for no particular pupose which is why there are no how-tos. You need a how-to when you want to learn how to build a wooden house. Nobody needs how-tos on the use of hammer, the nails, the saw etc. For the tools you need references about appropriate combinations of woods, nails and hammers and may be how to mount the correct blades on the saw etc. Any how-tos will be ignored anyway. Nothing prevents people from using spradsheets in the exact same manner as paper spreadsheets that used to be pinned to office walls in the 70ies. August2012.xls with 31 sheets (one for each day of month) a cross table with vertical days and horizontal items. Anything beyond mere data entry is impossible to do with this layout. This is the single most helpful how-to to solve most of today's spreadsheet problems without a single formula: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Calc_Guide/DataPilot The problem with that solution is that nobody is willing to organize data in databases nor sheet lists resembling a normalized database table. This is a far too simple machine readable data layout when you wasted so much time with all the formatting options and cell merging. Another "must read" on spreadsheets in general: http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/Tutor/spreadsheet_addiction.html -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 06/29/2012 04:10 AM, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 29.06.2012 09:04, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) It makes a lot of sense. Hopefully the proper LO documentation is far better than most! The Pdfs allow you to click on items in the Table-of-Contents and has other clickable links to help you navigate to where you want quickly. The built-in help is probably fairly poor right now. The docs team needs more people even to get through the proper full guides let alone important extras like the built-in help or the Faq. On the plus side they are really getting through the work and the 3.4.x guides have been pulled together in an amazingly short time. They have an excellent team right now even though some of the regular long-term stars appear to be taking a breather (or are they working hard behind the scenes? It's difficult to know) Regards from Tom :) BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Fanboyism by Tom. Back on topic: Calc is almost identical to Excel and Gnumeric. Point! Conceptually is still similar to any spreadsheet since 1979 (a reference sheet for VisiCalc is still online). A function reference for Excel or Gnumeric can help you to work with Calc if you really understand the content and that it does not apply literally. There is no need to know each and every function in detail. What you need to know _and_understand_ is: - Text vs. Number (and vs. Boolean in other applications) - Format vs. Value (percent, bool, date/time formatting in particular) - Relative vs. absolute reference - The lookup functions of all spreadsheets are somewhat special. In the first place they had been designed for something that is not that much required by today's spreadsheet users. - The most serious incompatibility between Calc and anything else is the radically awkward string processing which makes it unusable for too many of today's users. I wonder how much of the current functionality of LO is based upon the early days of OOo? Excel's functionality goes back towards its early Office 95/98 days. Much of it is fixed back then and not totally re-designed for today's need. Yes, there are issues with Calc that need resolving, but OOo/LO could not copy MSO's functions "exactly" due to software copyrights. So the designers, in the early days, had to do something different. We are living with that decision today. Yes, no one can/could know all the details of the included functions. MS use to boast how many 100's of new functions we in the newest version of Office. So with Calc, how many 100's of functions or abilities are in our resources to do the work we need to do in Calc's spreadsheet? Yes, there always something in the documentation that needs to be filled in. There are always going to be things you want to do that are not explained in a way that helps you. I have see that for the past 35-40 years in the tech fields I have dealt with; electronics, computer hardware, and computer programming. Is there a place where users can "drop off" a description on how to do something that is not explained in the current documentation? The current docs are "guides" and not "how-to" books. For me, "how-to" books are more example driven where there are 100's of examples on how to do specific "things". Then there is the detailed reference books. Look at Python books. You get a basic guide book, a thicker "how-to" book, and a thick resource book explaining in detail all the built in functions in the various resource libraries. You cannot expect our doc people to create a "guide" that does all three at the same time. If there are "pages" missing in the documentation or help system, and you know what is needed in those missing pages, write it up and offer it to the doc people so they do not need to "research it" for themselves. IF you created some working routine that explains how some function works properly, then summit it as a working example. There has to be a place for you to do just that. I have added to the FAQ wiki page about adding MS fonts to Linux to be used in LO. Where to get the MS core fonts and substitute ones. But that is something not everyone would want to do. So there has to be a place to have an example "dropped off" with text explaining how it works or the details of the example. sorry if I seem to be rambling. . . I is in the "wee hours" for me here Since I could not sleep, I decided to look at the email lists. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Am 29.06.2012 09:04, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) It makes a lot of sense. Hopefully the proper LO documentation is far better than most! The Pdfs allow you to click on items in the Table-of-Contents and has other clickable links to help you navigate to where you want quickly. The built-in help is probably fairly poor right now. The docs team needs more people even to get through the proper full guides let alone important extras like the built-in help or the Faq. On the plus side they are really getting through the work and the 3.4.x guides have been pulled together in an amazingly short time. They have an excellent team right now even though some of the regular long-term stars appear to be taking a breather (or are they working hard behind the scenes? It's difficult to know) Regards from Tom :) BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Fanboyism by Tom. Back on topic: Calc is almost identical to Excel and Gnumeric. Point! Conceptually is still similar to any spreadsheet since 1979 (a reference sheet for VisiCalc is still online). A function reference for Excel or Gnumeric can help you to work with Calc if you really understand the content and that it does not apply literally. There is no need to know each and every function in detail. What you need to know _and_understand_ is: - Text vs. Number (and vs. Boolean in other applications) - Format vs. Value (percent, bool, date/time formatting in particular) - Relative vs. absolute reference - The lookup functions of all spreadsheets are somewhat special. In the first place they had been designed for something that is not that much required by today's spreadsheet users. - The most serious incompatibility between Calc and anything else is the radically awkward string processing which makes it unusable for too many of today's users. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi :) It makes a lot of sense. Hopefully the proper LO documentation is far better than most! The Pdfs allow you to click on items in the Table-of-Contents and has other clickable links to help you navigate to where you want quickly. The built-in help is probably fairly poor right now. The docs team needs more people even to get through the proper full guides let alone important extras like the built-in help or the Faq. On the plus side they are really getting through the work and the 3.4.x guides have been pulled together in an amazingly short time. They have an excellent team right now even though some of the regular long-term stars appear to be taking a breather (or are they working hard behind the scenes? It's difficult to know) Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 29/6/12, Ken Springer wrote: I wouldn't worry errors in my attitude, I've just become so used to crappy documentation anymore I consider it the norm. And when I went to the Writer manual to find out something, it wasn't there. While in Calc, open Help and search for "locked documents". I get a blank page. I rarely use spreadsheets, as doing mathematical calculations are rare for me. Many use spreadsheets for databases, but I would use a database. Hopefully, I'll find the time tomorrow to get the manual downloaded. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi, Like any other programming language Calc can nest functions as far as the data types of the incoming parameters match the data types of the nested function results. The details are mostly the same as with any other spreadsheet program of the past 30 years with the only exception that there is no boolean data type. TRUE equals 1, FALSE equals 0 without any conversion. A Calc cell can have a number, text, blank and error. All constants are number or text, a formula may return number, text or error. =FUNCTION(number ; text ; range ; vector ) *should* be nested like this: =FUNCTION( function_number(x) ; function_text(x) ; function_range(x) ; function_vector(x) ) [a vector is a range made of a single row or column. Sometimes this shape is required] The function wizard can be of great help when composing nested functions. Personally, I avoid deeply nested function calls. They are much harder to maintain and debug. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_Functions_listed_by_category Apart from the functions of category "Text" all spreadsheet functions return numbers. Functions of category "Spreadsheet" return references to other cells. Am 29.06.2012 04:04, Ken Springer wrote: I rarely use spreadsheets, as doing mathematical calculations are rare for me. Many use spreadsheets for databases, but I would use a database. And probably not LO Base, as there was something written about Base in this list I couldn't believe was true, but sadly, I'm not sure what that was. LOL, CRS! Base is not a database. Please feel free to use your preferred connectable database and connect it with a Base document in order to use it in the context of this office suite. I do so successfully since many years (OOo 1.1) within the limits of this very simple tool set. A decent database is not exclusively bound to one particular front-end. Hope that helps, A.S. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/28/12 3:38 AM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 7:57 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one of the chapters or appendices. Hi, Dan. I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( But you won't know until you look will you? Guessing the content based upon another guide might be a mistake. Didn't mean that to sound like I wasn't going to check it out. Call it getting old and finding my expectations of useability of vendor supplied publications over the years to be lacking what I want to know. :-) Then perhaps I have been pointing out a possible error in your attitude. At age 70, my computer has user guides for Calc, Draw, Impress, and Writer. If I run into a problem, I go to one of them for the answer. So, what does age have to do with it? Before I made my second reply, I looked at the table of contents for the Calc Guide. I notice that Appendix B has 40 pages (8.5x11) on Calc functions. If I want to nest functions, I can click a cell and then click the function wizard. It will help me put them in the proper order. (You did not mention if you used this or not. Nor do I know if this works on the number of nesting that you want.) I wouldn't worry errors in my attitude, I've just become so used to crappy documentation anymore I consider it the norm. And when I went to the Writer manual to find out something, it wasn't there. While in Calc, open Help and search for "locked documents". I get a blank page. I rarely use spreadsheets, as doing mathematical calculations are rare for me. Many use spreadsheets for databases, but I would use a database. And probably not LO Base, as there was something written about Base in this list I couldn't believe was true, but sadly, I'm not sure what that was. LOL, CRS! Hopefully, I'll find the time tomorrow to get the manual downloaded. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/28/12 3:29 AM, Tom Davies wrote: So, smaller targeted downloads:) Now that I have DSL, I don't mind downloading the entire book. Don't know which chapter to look in anyway. LOL -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 7:57 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one of the chapters or appendices. Hi, Dan. I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( But you won't know until you look will you? Guessing the content based upon another guide might be a mistake. Didn't mean that to sound like I wasn't going to check it out. Call it getting old and finding my expectations of useability of vendor supplied publications over the years to be lacking what I want to know. :-) Then perhaps I have been pointing out a possible error in your attitude. At age 70, my computer has user guides for Calc, Draw, Impress, and Writer. If I run into a problem, I go to one of them for the answer. So, what does age have to do with it? Before I made my second reply, I looked at the table of contents for the Calc Guide. I notice that Appendix B has 40 pages (8.5x11) on Calc functions. If I want to nest functions, I can click a cell and then click the function wizard. It will help me put them in the proper order. (You did not mention if you used this or not. Nor do I know if this works on the number of nesting that you want.) --Dan -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Hi :) This link has the guides but also has links to 3rd party documentation and stuff https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications The official guides are uploaded there before officially released on the website and individual chapters are there before they get put together to form the entire book. So, smaller targeted downloads :) Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 28/6/12, Ken Springer wrote: From: Ken Springer Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 28 June, 2012, 3:06 On 6/27/12 7:57 PM, Dan wrote: > Ken Springer wrote: >> On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: >>> Ken Springer wrote: >>>> Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions >>>> anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only >>>> very generic examples of how to use them. >>>> >>>> I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. >>>> >>> Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one >>> of the chapters or appendices. >> >> Hi, Dan. >> >> I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer >> Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( > But you won't know until you look will you? Guessing the content > based upon another guide might be a mistake. Didn't mean that to sound like I wasn't going to check it out. Call it getting old and finding my expectations of useability of vendor supplied publications over the years to be lacking what I want to know. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 06/27/2012 09:58 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > On 6/27/12 6:43 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: >> Ken, >> >> On 06/27/2012 07:24 PM, Ken Springer wrote: >>> Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions >>> anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only >>> very generic examples of how to use them. >>> >>> I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. >>> >> Generally you can nest functions several levels deep in any spreadsheet. >> Typically the maximum is 7 levels but I would not go beyond about 3 >> because it becomes to difficult to follow the logic. You could have >> something like =if( (x or y), if( (a and b), >> sum(d:d),average(d:d)),stdev(d:d)). > > Hi, Jay, > > It's the actual syntax of the nesting I'm interested in. I've learned > the syntax varies from one to another, and Calc seems to be slightly > different than Excel, which I used years ago. > > Trying to avoid a lot of blind trial and error. LOL > > As for the number of levels, I used to know a guy who hated Excel > because there was a nesting limit. But he loved Quattro Pro because > there were no nesting level limits. > > Hi, Ken I have not noticed any major differences in the nesting syntax for my needs between Calc and Excel. But that does not mean there are none. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/27/12 7:57 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one of the chapters or appendices. Hi, Dan. I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( But you won't know until you look will you? Guessing the content based upon another guide might be a mistake. Didn't mean that to sound like I wasn't going to check it out. Call it getting old and finding my expectations of useability of vendor supplied publications over the years to be lacking what I want to know. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
Ken Springer wrote: On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one of the chapters or appendices. Hi, Dan. I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( But you won't know until you look will you? Guessing the content based upon another guide might be a mistake. --Dan -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/27/12 6:43 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Ken, On 06/27/2012 07:24 PM, Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Generally you can nest functions several levels deep in any spreadsheet. Typically the maximum is 7 levels but I would not go beyond about 3 because it becomes to difficult to follow the logic. You could have something like =if( (x or y), if( (a and b), sum(d:d),average(d:d)),stdev(d:d)). Hi, Jay, It's the actual syntax of the nesting I'm interested in. I've learned the syntax varies from one to another, and Calc seems to be slightly different than Excel, which I used years ago. Trying to avoid a lot of blind trial and error. LOL As for the number of levels, I used to know a guy who hated Excel because there was a nesting limit. But he loved Quattro Pro because there were no nesting level limits. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Using and Formatting Logical Functions in Calc
On 6/27/12 5:48 PM, Dan wrote: Ken Springer wrote: Is there a more detailed set of examples of using the functions anywhere? The Help Files have a general outline of each, but only very generic examples of how to use them. I need to nest some of the functions, if that's possible. Have you downloaded the Calc Guide. These things should be in one of the chapters or appendices. Hi, Dan. I haven't checked the Calc Guide, but if it's similar to the Writer Guide, it won't go to the depth I'm interested in. :-( -- Ken Mac OS X 10.6.8 Firefox 13.0.1 Thunderbird 13.0.1 LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
