Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
Hi :)
Would that 1st post by CVAlkan be good for the wiki? Where? In the Faq?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
Should we forwards that post to the Documentation Team?
Regards from
Tom :)
On 16 December 2013 02:05, Kracked_P_P---webmaster
wrote:
> On 12/15/2013 06:07 PM, Dale Erwin wrote:
>>
>> On 12/15/2013 10:16 AM, CVAlkan wrote:
>>>
>>> Dale:
>>>
>>> To type and save documents in both Thai and English, which I do quite
>>> successfully with LibreOffice and several other products, you need to
>>> understand a few things that aren't at all obvious from the
>>> documentation.
>>> At the end, I'll suggest an easy way to handle multi-lingual documents.
>>>
>>> Since your difficulty is with LibreOffice Writer, let's start there. and
>>> look at a couple things:
>>>
>>> Open a new blank document. First, go to Format | Character and take a
>>> look
>>> at the Font tab. In the top section, titled "Western text font" you will
>>> see
>>> the font that is currently active.
>>>
>>> The next two sections ("Asian text font" and "CTL font") are key to
>>> understand what's going on.
>>>
>>> If your base font (the one listed in the top section) is NOT a Unicode
>>> font,
>>> or if it is a Unicode font that doesn't contain Thai characters, you will
>>> see the font that LibreOffice - in a not always successful attempt to be
>>> helpful - uses as substitutes when you type in a particular character.
>>>
>>> What happens, therefore, is that Libre Writer gives you the impression
>>> that
>>> all is wonderful even though it is doing substitutions behind your back.
>>> In
>>> itself a good thing, but sometimes leads to confusion.
>>>
>>> It also isn't very clear that "Asian text font" is NOT what you use for
>>> your
>>> Thai substitutions. Aside from the fact that Thai is actually an
>>> Indo-European language, the "Asian text font" section seems to be only
>>> applicable to languages that use ideographs (i.e. little pictures) even
>>> if
>>> they have alphabetic characters. It also relates to languages that are
>>> written vertically, although I'm not too sure about that as I don't speak
>>> Chinese, Korean, Japanese and similar languages.
>>>
>>> Now look at the "CTL font" section. What you want to do is to pick a font
>>> that you know supports Thai, and choose it in the "CTL font" section as a
>>> substitute. The font is listed first, then the size stuff, and then under
>>> Language, you would choose Thai to indicate which group of characters
>>> within
>>> the font are to be used.
>>>
>>> A CTL font is what's used for substitutions when you are using an "Input
>>> Method" to type on the keyboard. Since there are several of these in use
>>> it's hard to tell you anything specific, but you've probably already
>>> solved
>>> that, since I presume you do some typing in English, hit some switch
>>> command, type a little Thai, then use the switch command to get back to
>>> English.
>>>
>>> By the way, the default you will often see under CTL font is one of the
>>> Hindi fonts (I presume because of Thai's ancient relation to Indian
>>> languages) - in Ubuntu, for instance, it is almost always "Lohit Hindi" -
>>> a
>>> font that is part of the Ubuntu installation.
>>>
>>> I used Format | Character as an example to make the explanation more
>>> clear;
>>> obviously there are similar settings in various Paragraph and Style
>>> settings
>>> as well, and they all work the same.
>>>
>>> BUT - if you want to make things really simple, you could simply use a
>>> font
>>> that has both English and Thai characters present, so no substitutions
>>> need
>>> to take place. Unfortunately there isn't a great variety of really good
>>> looking fonts (I'll list some below), but the advantage is that there are
>>> no
>>> substitutions, and the font sizes are matched more closely than would be
>>> the
>>> case with two different fonts. This is a matter of taste of course,
>>> particularly with balancing Thai and English, since Thai nees room above
>>> and
>>> below the characters for the various superscript and subscript vowels,
>>> tone
>>> marks, and such things. (these same issues are not unique to Thai of
>>> course
>>> - you'll run into them in both Hebrew and Arabic for instance).
>>>
>>> So, here are my (so far) favorite combination fonts for easily mixing
>>> Thai
>>> and English in the same document:
>>>
>>> Free Serif (Serif)
>>> Gentium Basic (Serif) xxx
>>> Gentium Book (Serif) xxx
>>> Norasi (Serif)
>>> Kinnari (Serif)
>>> Linux Libertine (developed for Linux, but works in Win)
>>> Linux Biolinium (ditto)
>>> Sawasdee (go figure...) (light Sans Serif)
>>> Droid Sans Thai (Sans Serif)
>>> Garuda (Sans Serif)
>>> Loma (Sans Serif)
>>> Umpush (Sans Serif)
>>> Waree (Sans Serif)
>>> Purisa (informal handwriting style)
>>> Tlwg Typist (mono typewriter)
>>>
>>> Obviously if there are others who use both Thai and English, I'd be
>>> interested in any of your favorite fonts.
>>>
>>> As for moving your document to other mac
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
Part of this Font FAQ was discussed in another thread.
It would be a very good idea to have the "language settings"
information, and the associated fonts, listed in a wiki page [for now]
so our users who use both Latin and non-Latin based languages would have
an easier time setting up their package for those languages.
There was a discussion of adding more fonts to the install of LO. It was
suggested that there could be a section/page[s] somewhere showing a list
of good free fonts that has the needed languages and how to use them
[i.e. set up to use them] with LO to write documents in those languages.
There are many fonts out there that work well for Thai and other
non-Latin based writings, but sometimes it may be difficult for our
users to find the "proper" fonts and set up LO to use them for their
documents. Having a list of free fonts and the languages they support
[graph or table] could be very helpful to some of our users.
Also, having an explanation on how to set up the language options in LO
would be a very good idea at the top of such a list of fonts. This
thread seems to indicate that more work in needed to make the setup of
different non-Latin based languages within an LO install is needed. How
do I get my document to work with the language and be about to edit and
print the document correctly using that language.
Having the list of fonts that include the Thai language scripts/glyphs
hopefully was helpful to the user. If we could expand the list into
some type of table where the rows are the free fonts [maybe paid one
that came with the OS] and the columns are the languages supported
within the fonts, it may help guide our user to which fonts work well
for which languages.
If you are a English and French speaking person that is learning a
non-Latin based language, having a list of fonts that support that
language is a needed item.
To be honest, I do not use any other language but my native English.
But if we get LO in schools/colleges, the students will need to use LO
to write in other Latin and non-Latin based languages, while using
English for the menus. Having both simple and detailed information on
how to set up LO to support all of these languages would be very
helpful. Having a documentation, like the solution in this thread,
showing the user how to set up a non-Latin based language to be used by
the user can be very important to the user. It seems that the current
documentation may not be where it is needed, if this thread is any
indication. But we can always make it better within the wiki page
environment.
On 12/16/2013 06:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
Would that 1st post by CVAlkan be good for the wiki? Where? In the Faq?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
Should we forwards that post to the Documentation Team?
Regards from
Tom :)
On 16 December 2013 02:05, Kracked_P_P---webmaster
wrote:
On 12/15/2013 06:07 PM, Dale Erwin wrote:
On 12/15/2013 10:16 AM, CVAlkan wrote:
Dale:
To type and save documents in both Thai and English, which I do quite
successfully with LibreOffice and several other products, you need to
understand a few things that aren't at all obvious from the
documentation.
At the end, I'll suggest an easy way to handle multi-lingual documents.
Since your difficulty is with LibreOffice Writer, let's start there. and
look at a couple things:
Open a new blank document. First, go to Format | Character and take a
look
at the Font tab. In the top section, titled "Western text font" you will
see
the font that is currently active.
The next two sections ("Asian text font" and "CTL font") are key to
understand what's going on.
If your base font (the one listed in the top section) is NOT a Unicode
font,
or if it is a Unicode font that doesn't contain Thai characters, you will
see the font that LibreOffice - in a not always successful attempt to be
helpful - uses as substitutes when you type in a particular character.
What happens, therefore, is that Libre Writer gives you the impression
that
all is wonderful even though it is doing substitutions behind your back.
In
itself a good thing, but sometimes leads to confusion.
It also isn't very clear that "Asian text font" is NOT what you use for
your
Thai substitutions. Aside from the fact that Thai is actually an
Indo-European language, the "Asian text font" section seems to be only
applicable to languages that use ideographs (i.e. little pictures) even
if
they have alphabetic characters. It also relates to languages that are
written vertically, although I'm not too sure about that as I don't speak
Chinese, Korean, Japanese and similar languages.
Now look at the "CTL font" section. What you want to do is to pick a font
that you know supports Thai, and choose it in the "CTL font" section as a
substitute. The font is listed first, then the size stuff, and then under
Language, you would choose Thai to indicate which group of characters
within
the font are to b
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
On 12/15/2013 06:07 PM, Dale Erwin wrote:
On 12/15/2013 10:16 AM, CVAlkan wrote:
Dale:
To type and save documents in both Thai and English, which I do quite
successfully with LibreOffice and several other products, you need to
understand a few things that aren't at all obvious from the
documentation.
At the end, I'll suggest an easy way to handle multi-lingual documents.
Since your difficulty is with LibreOffice Writer, let's start there. and
look at a couple things:
Open a new blank document. First, go to Format | Character and take a
look
at the Font tab. In the top section, titled "Western text font" you
will see
the font that is currently active.
The next two sections ("Asian text font" and "CTL font") are key to
understand what's going on.
If your base font (the one listed in the top section) is NOT a
Unicode font,
or if it is a Unicode font that doesn't contain Thai characters, you
will
see the font that LibreOffice - in a not always successful attempt to be
helpful - uses as substitutes when you type in a particular character.
What happens, therefore, is that Libre Writer gives you the
impression that
all is wonderful even though it is doing substitutions behind your
back. In
itself a good thing, but sometimes leads to confusion.
It also isn't very clear that "Asian text font" is NOT what you use
for your
Thai substitutions. Aside from the fact that Thai is actually an
Indo-European language, the "Asian text font" section seems to be only
applicable to languages that use ideographs (i.e. little pictures)
even if
they have alphabetic characters. It also relates to languages that are
written vertically, although I'm not too sure about that as I don't
speak
Chinese, Korean, Japanese and similar languages.
Now look at the "CTL font" section. What you want to do is to pick a
font
that you know supports Thai, and choose it in the "CTL font" section
as a
substitute. The font is listed first, then the size stuff, and then
under
Language, you would choose Thai to indicate which group of characters
within
the font are to be used.
A CTL font is what's used for substitutions when you are using an "Input
Method" to type on the keyboard. Since there are several of these in use
it's hard to tell you anything specific, but you've probably already
solved
that, since I presume you do some typing in English, hit some switch
command, type a little Thai, then use the switch command to get back to
English.
By the way, the default you will often see under CTL font is one of the
Hindi fonts (I presume because of Thai's ancient relation to Indian
languages) - in Ubuntu, for instance, it is almost always "Lohit
Hindi" - a
font that is part of the Ubuntu installation.
I used Format | Character as an example to make the explanation more
clear;
obviously there are similar settings in various Paragraph and Style
settings
as well, and they all work the same.
BUT - if you want to make things really simple, you could simply use
a font
that has both English and Thai characters present, so no
substitutions need
to take place. Unfortunately there isn't a great variety of really good
looking fonts (I'll list some below), but the advantage is that there
are no
substitutions, and the font sizes are matched more closely than would
be the
case with two different fonts. This is a matter of taste of course,
particularly with balancing Thai and English, since Thai nees room
above and
below the characters for the various superscript and subscript
vowels, tone
marks, and such things. (these same issues are not unique to Thai of
course
- you'll run into them in both Hebrew and Arabic for instance).
So, here are my (so far) favorite combination fonts for easily mixing
Thai
and English in the same document:
Free Serif (Serif)
Gentium Basic (Serif) xxx
Gentium Book (Serif) xxx
Norasi (Serif)
Kinnari (Serif)
Linux Libertine (developed for Linux, but works in Win)
Linux Biolinium (ditto)
Sawasdee (go figure...) (light Sans Serif)
Droid Sans Thai (Sans Serif)
Garuda (Sans Serif)
Loma (Sans Serif)
Umpush (Sans Serif)
Waree (Sans Serif)
Purisa (informal handwriting style)
Tlwg Typist (mono typewriter)
Obviously if there are others who use both Thai and English, I'd be
interested in any of your favorite fonts.
As for moving your document to other machines, Libre Office now has the
ability in some versions to embed the fonts in the document file
itself, but
I'm not sure if all versions and all platforms can utilize the embedded
fonts yet. (can anyone help here???)
I hope this helps you in your search.
-- Frank
Many thanks for your reply. At last someone who knows what he's
talking about. I don't have all those fonts available, but I do have
some and I can now save documents and reopen them intact. I certainly
do appreciate this information.
Thanks for the list of fonts.
As for embedding of fonts, it all depends on if you want to have others
edit the document or just view them
[libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
Dale: Search for the fonts on the internet. Just enter the name in google and you should be able to locate them. They're all under GPL - in other words they're free Glad I could help. Frank -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/saving-documents-written-in-Thai-tp4088195p4088303.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
On 12/15/2013 10:16 AM, CVAlkan wrote:
Dale:
To type and save documents in both Thai and English, which I do quite
successfully with LibreOffice and several other products, you need to
understand a few things that aren't at all obvious from the documentation.
At the end, I'll suggest an easy way to handle multi-lingual documents.
Since your difficulty is with LibreOffice Writer, let's start there. and
look at a couple things:
Open a new blank document. First, go to Format | Character and take a look
at the Font tab. In the top section, titled "Western text font" you will see
the font that is currently active.
The next two sections ("Asian text font" and "CTL font") are key to
understand what's going on.
If your base font (the one listed in the top section) is NOT a Unicode font,
or if it is a Unicode font that doesn't contain Thai characters, you will
see the font that LibreOffice - in a not always successful attempt to be
helpful - uses as substitutes when you type in a particular character.
What happens, therefore, is that Libre Writer gives you the impression that
all is wonderful even though it is doing substitutions behind your back. In
itself a good thing, but sometimes leads to confusion.
It also isn't very clear that "Asian text font" is NOT what you use for your
Thai substitutions. Aside from the fact that Thai is actually an
Indo-European language, the "Asian text font" section seems to be only
applicable to languages that use ideographs (i.e. little pictures) even if
they have alphabetic characters. It also relates to languages that are
written vertically, although I'm not too sure about that as I don't speak
Chinese, Korean, Japanese and similar languages.
Now look at the "CTL font" section. What you want to do is to pick a font
that you know supports Thai, and choose it in the "CTL font" section as a
substitute. The font is listed first, then the size stuff, and then under
Language, you would choose Thai to indicate which group of characters within
the font are to be used.
A CTL font is what's used for substitutions when you are using an "Input
Method" to type on the keyboard. Since there are several of these in use
it's hard to tell you anything specific, but you've probably already solved
that, since I presume you do some typing in English, hit some switch
command, type a little Thai, then use the switch command to get back to
English.
By the way, the default you will often see under CTL font is one of the
Hindi fonts (I presume because of Thai's ancient relation to Indian
languages) - in Ubuntu, for instance, it is almost always "Lohit Hindi" - a
font that is part of the Ubuntu installation.
I used Format | Character as an example to make the explanation more clear;
obviously there are similar settings in various Paragraph and Style settings
as well, and they all work the same.
BUT - if you want to make things really simple, you could simply use a font
that has both English and Thai characters present, so no substitutions need
to take place. Unfortunately there isn't a great variety of really good
looking fonts (I'll list some below), but the advantage is that there are no
substitutions, and the font sizes are matched more closely than would be the
case with two different fonts. This is a matter of taste of course,
particularly with balancing Thai and English, since Thai nees room above and
below the characters for the various superscript and subscript vowels, tone
marks, and such things. (these same issues are not unique to Thai of course
- you'll run into them in both Hebrew and Arabic for instance).
So, here are my (so far) favorite combination fonts for easily mixing Thai
and English in the same document:
Free Serif (Serif)
Gentium Basic (Serif) xxx
Gentium Book (Serif) xxx
Norasi (Serif)
Kinnari (Serif)
Linux Libertine (developed for Linux, but works in Win)
Linux Biolinium (ditto)
Sawasdee (go figure...) (light Sans Serif)
Droid Sans Thai (Sans Serif)
Garuda (Sans Serif)
Loma (Sans Serif)
Umpush (Sans Serif)
Waree (Sans Serif)
Purisa (informal handwriting style)
Tlwg Typist (mono typewriter)
Obviously if there are others who use both Thai and English, I'd be
interested in any of your favorite fonts.
As for moving your document to other machines, Libre Office now has the
ability in some versions to embed the fonts in the document file itself, but
I'm not sure if all versions and all platforms can utilize the embedded
fonts yet. (can anyone help here???)
I hope this helps you in your search.
-- Frank
Many thanks for your reply. At last someone who knows what he's talking
about. I don't have all those fonts available, but I do have some and I
can now save documents and reopen them intact. I certainly do
appreciate this information.
--
Dale Erwin
Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03
Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU
http://leather.casaerwin.org
--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mai
[libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
Dale:
To type and save documents in both Thai and English, which I do quite
successfully with LibreOffice and several other products, you need to
understand a few things that aren't at all obvious from the documentation.
At the end, I'll suggest an easy way to handle multi-lingual documents.
Since your difficulty is with LibreOffice Writer, let's start there. and
look at a couple things:
Open a new blank document. First, go to Format | Character and take a look
at the Font tab. In the top section, titled "Western text font" you will see
the font that is currently active.
The next two sections ("Asian text font" and "CTL font") are key to
understand what's going on.
If your base font (the one listed in the top section) is NOT a Unicode font,
or if it is a Unicode font that doesn't contain Thai characters, you will
see the font that LibreOffice - in a not always successful attempt to be
helpful - uses as substitutes when you type in a particular character.
What happens, therefore, is that Libre Writer gives you the impression that
all is wonderful even though it is doing substitutions behind your back. In
itself a good thing, but sometimes leads to confusion.
It also isn't very clear that "Asian text font" is NOT what you use for your
Thai substitutions. Aside from the fact that Thai is actually an
Indo-European language, the "Asian text font" section seems to be only
applicable to languages that use ideographs (i.e. little pictures) even if
they have alphabetic characters. It also relates to languages that are
written vertically, although I'm not too sure about that as I don't speak
Chinese, Korean, Japanese and similar languages.
Now look at the "CTL font" section. What you want to do is to pick a font
that you know supports Thai, and choose it in the "CTL font" section as a
substitute. The font is listed first, then the size stuff, and then under
Language, you would choose Thai to indicate which group of characters within
the font are to be used.
A CTL font is what's used for substitutions when you are using an "Input
Method" to type on the keyboard. Since there are several of these in use
it's hard to tell you anything specific, but you've probably already solved
that, since I presume you do some typing in English, hit some switch
command, type a little Thai, then use the switch command to get back to
English.
By the way, the default you will often see under CTL font is one of the
Hindi fonts (I presume because of Thai's ancient relation to Indian
languages) - in Ubuntu, for instance, it is almost always "Lohit Hindi" - a
font that is part of the Ubuntu installation.
I used Format | Character as an example to make the explanation more clear;
obviously there are similar settings in various Paragraph and Style settings
as well, and they all work the same.
BUT - if you want to make things really simple, you could simply use a font
that has both English and Thai characters present, so no substitutions need
to take place. Unfortunately there isn't a great variety of really good
looking fonts (I'll list some below), but the advantage is that there are no
substitutions, and the font sizes are matched more closely than would be the
case with two different fonts. This is a matter of taste of course,
particularly with balancing Thai and English, since Thai nees room above and
below the characters for the various superscript and subscript vowels, tone
marks, and such things. (these same issues are not unique to Thai of course
- you'll run into them in both Hebrew and Arabic for instance).
So, here are my (so far) favorite combination fonts for easily mixing Thai
and English in the same document:
Free Serif (Serif)
Gentium Basic (Serif)
Gentium Book (Serif)
Norasi (Serif)
Kinnari (Serif)
Linux Libertine (developed for Linux, but works in Win)
Linux Biolinium (ditto)
Sawasdee (go figure...) (light Sans Serif)
Droid Sans Thai (Sans Serif)
Garuda (Sans Serif)
Loma (Sans Serif)
Umpush (Sans Serif)
Waree (Sans Serif)
Purisa (informal handwriting style)
Tlwg Typist (mono typewriter)
Obviously if there are others who use both Thai and English, I'd be
interested in any of your favorite fonts.
As for moving your document to other machines, Libre Office now has the
ability in some versions to embed the fonts in the document file itself, but
I'm not sure if all versions and all platforms can utilize the embedded
fonts yet. (can anyone help here???)
I hope this helps you in your search.
-- Frank
--
View this message in context:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/saving-documents-written-in-Thai-tp4088195p4088266.html
Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[libreoffice-users] Re: saving documents written in Thai
"Dale Erwin": There are several Thai-capable fonts that come with Win 7. One of them is Lucinda console. Lucida Console does not contain Thai characters. Do not use a toolbar dropdown to set font; open Format/Character menu (or use styles) and set Latin and Thai fonts separately in 2 corresponding boxes there. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
