RE: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
One additional idea. Have some method so that if you type a character, LO can show you all fonts that have that character. Otherwise it can be difficult to find a font with that character. Bonus: This method would also let you see what that character looks like in different fonts. You may not think about checking some font, but it might have a great looking character (in your opinion) that you need all the time. For example, when typesetting computer code, I prefer a slash through the zero so it does not get confused with a capital Oh. (I know some fonts put a dot inside; I prefer a slash.) Background: I have a program for creating randomized versions of tests. The output format is HTML. I Insert - File into LO so that I can get the page breaks correct (by adding blank lines) and make a PDF file for printing from a computer that does not have LO installed. (Firefox and/or our printer s/w breaks pages differently in Print Preview and when actually printing. Very annoying.) On a recent test, I noticed that the HTML blank; entities did not get changed when inserting, so I had to hunt through different fonts to find that character. That is, the Writer document showed something like blank;blank;100 . Best regards, David Gast From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster [webmas...@krackedpress.com] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 15:05 To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters On 11/22/2013 01:20 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 11/21/2013 01:59 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: David Gast wrote: I have two ideas. Interestingly, Windows Vista's Character Map utility (and probably also Windows 7's?) has similar ideas... 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. Vista's character map has an option to group by Unicode subrange, where only the characters from the selected subrange are shown - as opposed to LibreOffice's current behaviour of jumping to the first character in the range, but giving no easy indication where the range ends. As you suggest, highlighting the range would be similarly helpful. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get all matching characters. For example, if you typed equal, all characters with equal in the name would be listed. (I do not know if the names are i*18n or not.). Vista's character map does pretty much exactly this. I think the character names are defined in the Unicode standard. Not sure if they're internationalised though. The thing that keeps catching me out with Vista is that after searching, the Search button changes to Reset - so to do a new search you have to first reset, then type the query string, then search; you can't just type a new query and search for it. Mark. I think you are asking for something like Thunderbird's Insert Special Character option. That option might be used as a different Special Character option. I really do not think that it would work on the non-Latin fonts or give you all of the glyphs/characters, especially the Unicode font's glyphs/characters, that the font has to offer or needed. I don't know about Thunderbird, but Windows Vista's character map (which I was describing) does work for all Unicode characters in the selected font. I'd expect Window 7's character map to also work similarly. For example, search for sharp and it returns: ß (U+00DF: Latin Small Letter Sharp S) and ♯ (U+266F: Music Sharp Sign) Want a division sign? My initial attempt searching for divide didn't get it, but trying another term division gets: ÷ (Division Sign) ∕ (Division Slash - not the same as /) ⊘ (Circled Division Slash) ⋇ (Division Times) I'm not certain, but think the names for the characters are defined by the Unicode standard. So I really think we need to keep the existing Special Character option, but could add on the alternative and limited one that Thunderbird has to LO. Since Thunderbird is also Open Source [so I have been told] you should be able to find the coding for this option if you look for it. [maybe even ask their developers for it] I am using it now so I can give you examples. You select all of the a characters, and then go down the scrolled list for the a character you wish to add. à á â ã ä å a; a*' a* a^' There are 30 in the lowercase a list. It looks like that's just searching for characters which look similar to the one you type? Probably based on some sort of lookup table. The Categories are - and some samples from Times [if they go through correctly] Accent Uppercase - È È E`` O;- O^' ? T^ Accent Lowercase - t ? ë e^ e~ Other Uppercase - Æ Ø DZ( Œ Other Lowercase - æ ß ø œ Common Symbols - ¡ ¤ © ® ¶ ¿ Not all of the symbols/characters/glyphs came out correctly on the list's email. I do
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
You are now talking about a font searcher and manager. That should not be part of a word processor, but a separate package. First you need to look at the Unicode specs to get the font data on where the characters should be. The other way would take a lot of programming to look at the font's internal glyph descriptions and then decide if it has an A or a in it. That is not as easy as you think. Our brains will do it just fine, but a computer brain to do the same is something that many other fields have been trying to create for many years. To have a computer see an image and pick out if it has or does not have an image of a font character/glyph, among all of the various styles that fonts come in, can be very hard to do and could take some real complex code to do it even half of the time. Searching a font to see if a glyph is defined in the place it should be could be an easy code to make for someone who knows how to write code that reads the internal font glyph specifications. I do not know if the LO developers can do this or do they get their font coding from other sources, or other project coders of open source packages. As for the blank character, do you know what it the position/placement in the Unicode specifications? That is a start. Actually there is a control character[s] in the ASCII code that do the job. I uses them in programming many times to get to the End-Of-Line [EOL] or go to a new page with Form Feed [FF]. Maybe it is not completely the font's fault, but how Writer and Firefox sees the command of entering a blank line. Does Writer see the blank as text or the control character? Does Firefox? Many time when we use a word processor to create a web page, and not a text editor or web page only WYSIWYG package, the text of blank may be considered to be text and not a command or HTML Tag. br is to be a end of line and go to the next line. But is it the text of these characters or the HTML Tag that you are using? How does Writer knows and how does Firefox? The lines can blur easy enough. Here are some ASCII control codes. Writing this, for the Line Feed character I see the HEX number, a glyph image of a filled in half height square, then control What you will see after this post goes through the server's filters and possible font changing on the email client's end, well I cannot predict all of the possibilities. 000A control = LINE FEED (LF) = new line (NL), end of line (EOL) 000B control = LINE TABULATION = vertical tabulation (VT) 000C control = FORM FEED (FF) 000D control = CARRIAGE RETURN (CR) On 11/23/2013 04:48 PM, David Gast wrote: One additional idea. Have some method so that if you type a character, LO can show you all fonts that have that character. Otherwise it can be difficult to find a font with that character. Bonus: This method would also let you see what that character looks like in different fonts. You may not think about checking some font, but it might have a great looking character (in your opinion) that you need all the time. For example, when typesetting computer code, I prefer a slash through the zero so it does not get confused with a capital Oh. (I know some fonts put a dot inside; I prefer a slash.) Background: I have a program for creating randomized versions of tests. The output format is HTML. I Insert - File into LO so that I can get the page breaks correct (by adding blank lines) and make a PDF file for printing from a computer that does not have LO installed. (Firefox and/or our printer s/w breaks pages differently in Print Preview and when actually printing. Very annoying.) On a recent test, I noticed that the HTML blank; entities did not get changed when inserting, so I had to hunt through different fonts to find that character. That is, the Writer document showed something like blank;blank;100 . Best regards, David Gast From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster [webmas...@krackedpress.com] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 15:05 To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters On 11/22/2013 01:20 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 11/21/2013 01:59 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: David Gast wrote: I have two ideas. Interestingly, Windows Vista's Character Map utility (and probably also Windows 7's?) has similar ideas... 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. Vista's character map has an option to group by Unicode subrange, where only the characters from the selected subrange are shown - as opposed to LibreOffice's current behaviour of jumping to the first character in the range, but giving no easy indication where the range ends. As you suggest, highlighting the range would be similarly helpful. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get
RE: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
At 21:48 23/11/2013 +, David Gast wrote: On a recent test, I noticed that the HTML blank; entities did not get changed when inserting, ... Could that be because blank; is not an HTML entity?! That is, the Writer document showed something like blank;blank;100 . An HTML principle is that white space is condensed, so two blanks would appear as one anyway. To avoid this, you need the non-breaking space, nbsp;. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
At 01:37 22/11/2013 -0500, Doug McGarrett wrote: When I was in grade school, over 60 years ago, lb. meant pound(s). That's only for pounds Avoirdupois (and it's lb, not lb.), of course. Pounds Sterling is £. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/21/2013 01:59 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: David Gast wrote: I have two ideas. Interestingly, Windows Vista's Character Map utility (and probably also Windows 7's?) has similar ideas... 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. Vista's character map has an option to group by Unicode subrange, where only the characters from the selected subrange are shown - as opposed to LibreOffice's current behaviour of jumping to the first character in the range, but giving no easy indication where the range ends. As you suggest, highlighting the range would be similarly helpful. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get all matching characters. For example, if you typed equal, all characters with equal in the name would be listed. (I do not know if the names are i*18n or not.). Vista's character map does pretty much exactly this. I think the character names are defined in the Unicode standard. Not sure if they're internationalised though. The thing that keeps catching me out with Vista is that after searching, the Search button changes to Reset - so to do a new search you have to first reset, then type the query string, then search; you can't just type a new query and search for it. Mark. I think you are asking for something like Thunderbird's Insert Special Character option. That option might be used as a different Special Character option. I really do not think that it would work on the non-Latin fonts or give you all of the glyphs/characters, especially the Unicode font's glyphs/characters, that the font has to offer or needed. So I really think we need to keep the existing Special Character option, but could add on the alternative and limited one that Thunderbird has to LO. Since Thunderbird is also Open Source [so I have been told] you should be able to find the coding for this option if you look for it. [maybe even ask their developers for it] I am using it now so I can give you examples. You select all of the a characters, and then go down the scrolled list for the a character you wish to add. à á â ã ä å a; a*' a* a^' There are 30 in the lowercase a list. The Categories are - and some samples from Times [if they go through correctly] Accent Uppercase - È È E`` O;- O^' ? T^ Accent Lowercase - t ? ë e^ e~ Other Uppercase - Æ Ø DZ( Œ Other Lowercase - æ ß ø œ Common Symbols - ¡ ¤ © ® ¶ ¿ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Doug wrote: On 11/21/2013 02:00 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: Then there are the younger users that know # only as hash-tag and not pound-sign. Yes many of the standard characters have different names depending on the languages used. In the UK, # is more commonly known as hash or number sign. For us, pound sign usually means £ ;o) Windows Vista's character map (and probably Windows 7's as well?) displays the name of the selected character (and can search for characters by name). It calls # Number Sign and £ Pound Sign. I think those are the official names defined by Unicode. Mark. I always think of # as being a sharp sign. The musical sharp symbol is slightly different: ♯ When I was in grade school, over 60 years ago, lb. meant pound(s). Writing a script in the bash shell in Linux, you start with #! which is known as shabang. shabang, I think, is short for hash bang - another name for ! being a bang. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 11/21/2013 01:59 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: David Gast wrote: I have two ideas. Interestingly, Windows Vista's Character Map utility (and probably also Windows 7's?) has similar ideas... 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. Vista's character map has an option to group by Unicode subrange, where only the characters from the selected subrange are shown - as opposed to LibreOffice's current behaviour of jumping to the first character in the range, but giving no easy indication where the range ends. As you suggest, highlighting the range would be similarly helpful. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get all matching characters. For example, if you typed equal, all characters with equal in the name would be listed. (I do not know if the names are i*18n or not.). Vista's character map does pretty much exactly this. I think the character names are defined in the Unicode standard. Not sure if they're internationalised though. The thing that keeps catching me out with Vista is that after searching, the Search button changes to Reset - so to do a new search you have to first reset, then type the query string, then search; you can't just type a new query and search for it. Mark. I think you are asking for something like Thunderbird's Insert Special Character option. That option might be used as a different Special Character option. I really do not think that it would work on the non-Latin fonts or give you all of the glyphs/characters, especially the Unicode font's glyphs/characters, that the font has to offer or needed. I don't know about Thunderbird, but Windows Vista's character map (which I was describing) does work for all Unicode characters in the selected font. I'd expect Window 7's character map to also work similarly. For example, search for sharp and it returns: ß (U+00DF: Latin Small Letter Sharp S) and ♯ (U+266F: Music Sharp Sign) Want a division sign? My initial attempt searching for divide didn't get it, but trying another term division gets: ÷ (Division Sign) ∕ (Division Slash - not the same as /) ⊘ (Circled Division Slash) ⋇ (Division Times) I'm not certain, but think the names for the characters are defined by the Unicode standard. So I really think we need to keep the existing Special Character option, but could add on the alternative and limited one that Thunderbird has to LO. Since Thunderbird is also Open Source [so I have been told] you should be able to find the coding for this option if you look for it. [maybe even ask their developers for it] I am using it now so I can give you examples. You select all of the a characters, and then go down the scrolled list for the a character you wish to add. à á â ã ä å a; a*' a* a^' There are 30 in the lowercase a list. It looks like that's just searching for characters which look similar to the one you type? Probably based on some sort of lookup table. The Categories are - and some samples from Times [if they go through correctly] Accent Uppercase - È È E`` O;- O^' ? T^ Accent Lowercase - t ? ë e^ e~ Other Uppercase - Æ Ø DZ( Œ Other Lowercase - æ ß ø œ Common Symbols - ¡ ¤ © ® ¶ ¿ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Mark Bourne wrote: I always think of # as being a sharp sign. The musical sharp symbol is slightly different: ♯ Yeah, it is a bit flat to be a sharp sign. ;-) I've always known it as a number sign. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Ruth Ann wrote: OT maybe, but does anyone know the name for @ ? Something I have been trying to discover for years :-) Ruth Ann, Cincinnati, OH USA It depends who you ask, and in what language ;o) Unicode calls it commercial at. The article about it on Wikipedia is titled At sign, and mentions some other names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign Mark. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
The recorded voicemail messages (at least here in the U.S.), always instruct us to press the pound key. Virgil -Original Message- From: James Knott Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:23 PM To: LibreOffice Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters Mark Bourne wrote: I always think of # as being a sharp sign. The musical sharp symbol is slightly different: ♯ Yeah, it is a bit flat to be a sharp sign. ;-) I've always known it as a number sign. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
pound sign /n./ *1. * The symbol () for a unit of currency, especially the pound sterling. *2. * The symbol (#) for a pound as a unit of weight. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company http://www.eref-trade.hmco.com/. All rights reserved. Steve On 2013-11-23 08:03, Virgil Arrington wrote: The recorded voicemail messages (at least here in the U.S.), always instruct us to press the pound key. Virgil -Original Message- From: James Knott Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:23 PM To: LibreOffice Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters Mark Bourne wrote: I always think of # as being a sharp sign. The musical sharp symbol is slightly different: ♯ Yeah, it is a bit flat to be a sharp sign. ;-) I've always known it as a number sign. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/22/2013 01:20 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 11/21/2013 01:59 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: David Gast wrote: I have two ideas. Interestingly, Windows Vista's Character Map utility (and probably also Windows 7's?) has similar ideas... 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. Vista's character map has an option to group by Unicode subrange, where only the characters from the selected subrange are shown - as opposed to LibreOffice's current behaviour of jumping to the first character in the range, but giving no easy indication where the range ends. As you suggest, highlighting the range would be similarly helpful. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get all matching characters. For example, if you typed equal, all characters with equal in the name would be listed. (I do not know if the names are i*18n or not.). Vista's character map does pretty much exactly this. I think the character names are defined in the Unicode standard. Not sure if they're internationalised though. The thing that keeps catching me out with Vista is that after searching, the Search button changes to Reset - so to do a new search you have to first reset, then type the query string, then search; you can't just type a new query and search for it. Mark. I think you are asking for something like Thunderbird's Insert Special Character option. That option might be used as a different Special Character option. I really do not think that it would work on the non-Latin fonts or give you all of the glyphs/characters, especially the Unicode font's glyphs/characters, that the font has to offer or needed. I don't know about Thunderbird, but Windows Vista's character map (which I was describing) does work for all Unicode characters in the selected font. I'd expect Window 7's character map to also work similarly. For example, search for sharp and it returns: ß (U+00DF: Latin Small Letter Sharp S) and ♯ (U+266F: Music Sharp Sign) Want a division sign? My initial attempt searching for divide didn't get it, but trying another term division gets: ÷ (Division Sign) ∕ (Division Slash - not the same as /) ⊘ (Circled Division Slash) ⋇ (Division Times) I'm not certain, but think the names for the characters are defined by the Unicode standard. So I really think we need to keep the existing Special Character option, but could add on the alternative and limited one that Thunderbird has to LO. Since Thunderbird is also Open Source [so I have been told] you should be able to find the coding for this option if you look for it. [maybe even ask their developers for it] I am using it now so I can give you examples. You select all of the a characters, and then go down the scrolled list for the a character you wish to add. à á â ã ä å a; a*' a* a^' There are 30 in the lowercase a list. It looks like that's just searching for characters which look similar to the one you type? Probably based on some sort of lookup table. The Categories are - and some samples from Times [if they go through correctly] Accent Uppercase - È È E`` O;- O^' ? T^ Accent Lowercase - t ? ë e^ e~ Other Uppercase - Æ Ø DZ( Œ Other Lowercase - æ ß ø œ Common Symbols - ¡ ¤ © ® ¶ ¿ Not all of the symbols/characters/glyphs came out correctly on the list's email. I do wonder if Thunderbird's limited Special Character option is somewhat like the poster's idea of an option for the special characters. As I stated before, it is limited and I would not want to see the current Special Character option be replaced, but the one that Thunderbird has might be an interesting secondary option. As for the division and music glyphs/characters, there is a glyph range in Unicode for music related characters - 1D100 -- 1D1FF. As for the Math symbols, well there are several ranges that are populated with them, for most of these ranges. http://www.unicode.org/charts/ This link has the Unicode names for every symbol that they list. So if you have a musical, mathematic, or any other character/symbol/glyph, you can look through the PDF files for the names of the symbols and see what they look like, or the reverse. There are a lot of symbols for Math that I have not seen in over 20 years and did not remember at all, till I saw their shapes in the lists. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/21/2013 11:37 PM, Doug wrote: I always think of # as being a sharp sign I always think of a tic-tac-toe game. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/22/2013 1:34 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: Ruth Ann wrote: OT maybe, but does anyone know the name for @ ? Something I have been trying to discover for years :-) Ruth Ann, Cincinnati, OH USA It depends who you ask, and in what language ;o) Unicode calls it commercial at. The article about it on Wikipedia is titled At sign, and mentions some other names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign Mark. In Spanish, at least in Peruvian Spanish, it is called aroba (or maybe it's arroba). -- Dale Erwin Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03 Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: Then there are the younger users that know # only as hash-tag and not pound-sign. Yes many of the standard characters have different names depending on the languages used. In the UK, # is more commonly known as hash or number sign. For us, pound sign usually means £ ;o) Windows Vista's character map (and probably Windows 7's as well?) displays the name of the selected character (and can search for characters by name). It calls # Number Sign and £ Pound Sign. I think those are the official names defined by Unicode. Mark. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
David Gast wrote: I have two ideas. Interestingly, Windows Vista's Character Map utility (and probably also Windows 7's?) has similar ideas... 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. Vista's character map has an option to group by Unicode subrange, where only the characters from the selected subrange are shown - as opposed to LibreOffice's current behaviour of jumping to the first character in the range, but giving no easy indication where the range ends. As you suggest, highlighting the range would be similarly helpful. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get all matching characters. For example, if you typed equal, all characters with equal in the name would be listed. (I do not know if the names are i*18n or not.). Vista's character map does pretty much exactly this. I think the character names are defined in the Unicode standard. Not sure if they're internationalised though. The thing that keeps catching me out with Vista is that after searching, the Search button changes to Reset - so to do a new search you have to first reset, then type the query string, then search; you can't just type a new query and search for it. Mark. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: Then there are the younger users that know # only as hash-tag and not pound-sign. Yes many of the standard characters have different names depending on the languages used. In the UK, # is more commonly known as hash or number sign. For us, pound sign usually means £ ;o) Windows Vista's character map (and probably Windows 7's as well?) displays the name of the selected character (and can search for characters by name). It calls # Number Sign and £ Pound Sign. I think those are the official names defined by Unicode. Mark. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/21/2013 02:00 PM, Mark Bourne wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: Then there are the younger users that know # only as hash-tag and not pound-sign. Yes many of the standard characters have different names depending on the languages used. In the UK, # is more commonly known as hash or number sign. For us, pound sign usually means £ ;o) Windows Vista's character map (and probably Windows 7's as well?) displays the name of the selected character (and can search for characters by name). It calls # Number Sign and £ Pound Sign. I think those are the official names defined by Unicode. Mark. I always think of # as being a sharp sign. When I was in grade school, over 60 years ago, lb. meant pound(s). Writing a script in the bash shell in Linux, you start with #! which is known as shabang. --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Who doesn't know the word ampersand ... who now days doesn't know the at-sign ... and the tilde is one of the marks, in the Romance languages, placed over some of their letters to distinguish meanings ... From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com Date: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters To: users@global.libreoffice.org At 17:35 16/11/2013 +, Toki Jonathon Kantoor wrote: Under what circumstances would one be using glyphs they know not the name of? Many people do not know the name ampersand. No-one knows what @ is called. Some people think ~ is a tilde. (Hint: it's a swung dash.) ;^) Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Yes, I can imagine that some native French speaking people don't know the meaning of at, spoken for them as èt, but the sign @ is ar(r)obas(e) in French. In Dutch it is called apestaartje (monkey tale), but at is more commonly used... Met vriendelijke groeten, Salutations distinguées, Kind Regards, DRIES FEYS CORPORATE SERVICES • Specialist Software Developer TVH GROUP NV Brabantstraat 15 • BE-8790 WAREGEM T +32 56 43 42 11 • F +32 56 43 44 88 • www.tvh.com On 18 November 2013 16:02, anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com wrote: Who doesn't know the word ampersand ... who now days doesn't know the at-sign ... and the tilde is one of the marks, in the Romance languages, placed over some of their letters to distinguish meanings ... From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com Date: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters To: users@global.libreoffice.org At 17:35 16/11/2013 +, Toki Jonathon Kantoor wrote: Under what circumstances would one be using glyphs they know not the name of? Many people do not know the name ampersand. No-one knows what @ is called. Some people think ~ is a tilde. (Hint: it's a swung dash.) ;^) Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- DISCLAIMER http://www.tvh.com/newen2/emaildisclaimer/default.html This message is delivered to all addressees subject to the conditions set forth in the attached disclaimer, which is an integral part of this message. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
the more things change, the more they stay the same ;-) This is quite an interesting list; thanks for sharing. From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com Date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters To: users@global.libreoffice.org On 11/18/2013 10:17 AM, Dries Feys wrote: Yes, I can imagine that some native French speaking people don't know the meaning of at, spoken for them as èt, but the sign @ is ar(r)obas(e) in French. In Dutch it is called apestaartje (monkey tale), but at is more commonly used... Met vriendelijke groeten, Salutations distinguées, Kind Regards, DRIES FEYS CORPORATE SERVICES • Specialist Software Developer TVH GROUP NV Brabantstraat 15 • BE-8790 WAREGEM T +32 56 43 42 11 • F +32 56 43 44 88 • www.tvh.com snip Then there are the younger users that know # only as hash-tag and not pound-sign. Yes many of the standard characters have different names depending on the languages used. I just recently download over 200 PDF files that have the Unicode character glyphs and their names listed together. Plus it gives some other, and sometimes, interesting information with the names. Blow are a few of the English Keyboard glyphs and what was stated about them. 0023 # NUMBER SIGN = pound sign, hash, crosshatch, octothorpe → 2114 ℔ l b bar symbol → 266F ♯ music sharp sign ⁓ 0023 FE0E text style ⁓ 0023 FE0F emoji style 0026 AMPERSAND → 204A ⁊ tironian sign et → 214B ⅋ turned ampersand 0027 ' APOSTROPHE = apostrophe-quote (1.0) = APL quote • neutral (vertical) glyph with mixed usage • 2019 ’ is preferred for apostrophe • preferred characters in English for paired quotation marks are 2018 ‘ 2019 ’ • 05F3 ׳is preferred for geresh when writing Hebrew → 02B9 ʹ modifier letter prime → 02BC ʼ modifier letter apostrophe → 02C8 ˈ modifier letter vertical line → 0301 $́ combining acute accent → 05F3 ׳hebrew punctuation geresh → 2032 ′ prime → A78C ꞌ latin small letter saltillo 0060 ` GRAVE ACCENT • this is a spacing character → 02CB ˋ modifier letter grave accent → 0300 $̀ combining grave accent → 2035 ‵ reversed prime 007E ~ TILDE • this is a spacing character → 02DC ̃ small tilde → 0303 $̃ combining tilde → 2053 ⁓ swung dash → 223C ∼ tilde operator → FF5E ~ fullwidth tilde -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/15/2013 05:17 PM, Paul wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:34:33 -0500 Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: On 11/15/2013 01:19 PM, Paul wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:06:05 + jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds simple enough (and useful) to me, and I'm not sure I agree with e-letter's objection above, Instead of the current theoretical maximum of 2000 page to search for a rarely used glyph, whose position is known, you'd have to search through 25000 pages for a glyph whose position is both unknown, and unknowable to all, except the creator of the font palette. I really have no idea what you are talking about here... How does 2000 or 25000 come into it at all? We're simply talking about being able to filter the list by custom selections, be that their 20-40 most used, Engineering symbols, or whatever. They are talking about Unicode fonts. They could have 2 to 10 thousand glyphs, depending on which language glyphs are supported. What you are asking may be in the basic special character sets in Basic Latin, Latin-1, Latin Extended A and B, among other glyph sets in a well rounded font. There may be 100 to 500 glyphs in those sets in your popular fonts that are used. The sets do have names that are defined by the font standards, but I never remember the names or what goes where. That still doesn't make any sense. What is this theoretical 2000 page maximum? And why would the glyph's position be known? That's assuming you know where the glyph is. Most cases you would only know what it looks like, but not where it is in the list, hence why you would want some sort of filter to make it easier to find. And why would a filter on the special characters mean that you suddenly need to search through 25000 pages? You would need to search through *less* characters, not more, because you have filtered the list to only show a subset. As I see it, the major problem with this is that changing the font changes the available special characters. So any subset that was defined might not have all the characters available for the selected font, but surely that could be shown quite simply? Or would certain fonts have certain special characters at different unicode locations, i.e. would different fonts have different symbols for the same unicode point (or whatever it is called)? And where does the current list of subsets come from anyway? Is that defined within the font? Here is a PDF file with two fonts and their named glyph sets shown in screen clips of the Insert Special Character option. Liberation Serif has 29 named sets within the range of glyph positions. The second font is Arial Unicode MS, which has 79 named sets within the same range [plus on more position] http://LibreOffice-NA.US/special-characters-1.pdf All glyphs have positions in the list of glyphs. The space character is U+0020, and the ? is U+003F. Liberation Serif contains various glyphs from U+0020 to U+FFFC, while Arial Unicode MS goes to U+FFFD. Arial Unicode MS includes a large collection of glyphs from many different languages, while Liberation Serif skips most of them. To be honest, the basic Latin glyphs that use the letters that English, Spanish, French, etc., use for their languages, reside in just a few glyph sets. Most fonts have these sets plus some of the glyphs used in Mathematics and other specialized usage in those languages, as well as some others. For the fonts that have more glyphs than your standard fonts, they could contain glyphs for non-Latin-based languages and other special glyphs needed by the user. But then there are those fonts that do not use the standard of this glyph goes here and use there own specialized glyph sets. Many Calligraphy fonts have additional fonts that contain combinations of letters that you might see in the art of hand Calligraphy. Also there are those special fonts that are in the dingbat, wingbat, webdings, and other names of fonts that are composed of special images in each glyph position. The number 2 could be an arrow pointing down and slightly to the left, or it could be a snowflake, or a pumpkin. These fonts will not adhere to the glyph name set standards. . . . . And you thought fonts were easy to understand . . . . Fonts are easy to use but the internal information stored within the fonts, the glyphs, the set information, and a whole bunch more that most people never will know about unless you use a font creation software. The whole point of this posting is that there may be a lot of things that would need to be known and done for a special character sorting or filtering routine that would work for the major percent of the fonts out there. Then there are the pesky ones that will make the routine fail badly. To be honest, I am not an expert on fonts. I have a very large collection of fonts - over 214,000 files in 15.2 GB of drive space [according to the properties info on the folders that
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/15/2013 10:17 PM, Paul wrote: That still doesn't make any sense. What is this theoretical 2000 page maximum? Unicode allows for 1,114,112 different glyphs, excluding variants. with variants, you are looking at roughly 1,750,000 glyphs. And why would the glyph's position be known? Taking, thorn, for example, with the current setup, one knows to look in the Runic range. when the sub-range is at the whim of a programmer, it could be literally anywhere. Most cases you would only know what it looks like, but not where it is in the list, hence why you would want some sort of filter to make it easier to find. Under what circumstances would one be using glyphs they know not the name of? And why would a filter on the special characters mean that you suddenly need to search through 25000 pages? You would need to search through *less* characters, not more, because you have filtered the list to only show a subset. The claim is that the current filters are inadequate. Thus, the need to dummy it down, so that it is less efficient, more time consuming, and awkward to use. But because less glyphs are displayed, Joe Sixpack thinks it is easier to use. As I see it, the major problem with this is that changing the font changes the available special characters. Obviously that is going to happen. That is the desired and expected behaviour. To do otherwise would constitute a show-stopping bug of the highest possible priority to fix. Or would certain fonts have certain special characters at different unicode locations, i.e. would different fonts have different symbols for the same unicode point (or whatever it is called)? Those are variants, and are part of the Unicode specification. If font creators correctly implement the full sub-range, those variants would be included, but since, for various reasons, won't implement the full sub-range, the variants are omitted. And where does the current list of subsets come from anyway? Is that defined within the font? The Unicode Specification. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/16/2013 08:17 PM, Paul wrote: Unicode allows for 1,114,112 different glyphs, excluding variants. with variants, you are looking at roughly 1,750,000 glyphs. And so... how does this relate to 2000 pages? The largest currently available Pan-Unicode font contains roughly 100,000 glyphs. (There are several speciality font packages that contain more glyphs, but they are not Pan-Unicode fonts.) Divide the number of glyphs in the font by the number of glyphs displayed in the screen. Taking, thorn, for example, with the current setup, one knows to look in the Runic range. You might, but that doesn't mean everybody does. Only if one has paid absolutely no attention to how glyphs in the font are organized. Even a thirty second scan shows that it is ordered by writing system. when the sub-range is at the whim of a programmer, it could be literally anywhere. Sure, but the assumption is that it is easier to find a glyph by usage than by name The issue you fail to recognize is that the same glyph can be used in any number of different fields, to represent very different concepts and meanings. The claim is that the current filters are inadequate. Thus, the need to dummy it down, so that it is less efficient, more time consuming, and awkward to use. Why on earth would I want to make it *more* complex if it is too difficult as it is? I can see you clearly don't understand the suggestion. Take a look at the problems created by the various types of indexing methods used for Chinese dictionaries, and why each of those indexing solutions is touted as being the best, and thus only system that should be used. But because less glyphs are displayed, Joe Sixpack thinks it is easier to use. Exactly. So useful for Joe Sixpack, if not for you. Less glyphs displayed means more pages have to be viewed to find the appropriate glyph. Which means that in the long run, it will be even more awkward for Joe Sixpack. What I'm proposing is another dropdown, let's call it filters, that would allow you to display only the glyphs that belong in that filter. Do that as a user-installable extension. If you know, however, that you need the ohm symbol, but don't know where to find it, you can change the filter dropdown to Electrical Symbols, and the subsection dropdown will go blank, and the list of characters will only show those characters that are defined in the xml file as belonging to electrical symbols, making ohm easier to find. What happens when the ohm symbol is not in the set of Electrical Symbols? Joe Sixpack is even more lost than under the current setup. And if your font is webdings or whatever, and the character for ohm doesn't look like an ohm, then you will get a pumpkin, or whatever, Then you are back with the mess that fonts were, before most software incorporated, and could utilize Unicode. Now does that really sound like it would be *more* complex? Would it make the number of pages go from 2000 to 25000? Would it leave you at the whim of the programmer? I don't think so. What happens when the programmer omits glyphs because s/he thinks that they are so rare/obscure that they will not be useḍ? IIRC, there are around 10,000 glyphs waiting to be voted on, each of which is used only in one or two very specific circumstances, but without which, it will be like the Japanese newspapers that consistently misspelled the name of their premier, because their font lacked the appropriate glyphs. jonadthon * English - detected * English * English javascript:void(0); -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:59:04 + jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/16/2013 08:17 PM, Paul wrote: Taking, thorn, for example, with the current setup, one knows to look in the Runic range. You might, but that doesn't mean everybody does. Only if one has paid absolutely no attention to how glyphs in the font are organized. Even a thirty second scan shows that it is ordered by writing system. That assumes, among other things, that the user knows what thorn is. As an example, let's say the user wants to write a small section about mathematical sets, and needs the intersection symbol. I just tried to look that up in the special characters dialog, and had absolutely no idea where it was. And the list was simply too long to search through by brute force. Luckily, one of the subsets is helpfully named Mathematical Operators. Makes it very easy to find. But why are there no Engineering Operators or Electrical Operators? Now what do I do if I need one of those? Yes, I realise why there are no such categories defined within unicode, that's not my point. My point is if that's what I'm looking for, it would be handy to have such a subset. when the sub-range is at the whim of a programmer, it could be literally anywhere. Sure, but the assumption is that it is easier to find a glyph by usage than by name The issue you fail to recognize is that the same glyph can be used in any number of different fields, to represent very different concepts and meanings. You are mistaken. I don't fail to recognise that. I am fully aware of that. And there is nothing stopping the same unicode character being included in multiple filters. Perhaps you don't fully understand how the proposed system works. The claim is that the current filters are inadequate. Thus, the need to dummy it down, so that it is less efficient, more time consuming, and awkward to use. Why on earth would I want to make it *more* complex if it is too difficult as it is? I can see you clearly don't understand the suggestion. Take a look at the problems created by the various types of indexing methods used for Chinese dictionaries, and why each of those indexing solutions is touted as being the best, and thus only system that should be used. Not knowing anything about this, I won't comment. But you tell me, why exactly is my system more complex? But because less glyphs are displayed, Joe Sixpack thinks it is easier to use. Exactly. So useful for Joe Sixpack, if not for you. Less glyphs displayed means more pages have to be viewed to find the appropriate glyph. Which means that in the long run, it will be even more awkward for Joe Sixpack. Only if it's not in the filter he thinks it is in. Chances are he has at least some idea of what purpose it serves, and so will be able to find it in an aptly named filter (or think of them as a collection). If he truly has no idea where it might be, then there is probably no help for him, short of some sort of sketch-and-search, which would be one smashing great idea, but is probably technically unfeasable. Do that as a user-installable extension. Sure. No reason not to. That would be a first step. Although I don't see why it couldn't be part of the core LO, but no, it wouldn't have to be. What happens when the ohm symbol is not in the set of Electrical Symbols? Joe Sixpack is even more lost than under the current setup. Well, then he either needs to do an exhaustive manual search, or download a more complete filter/collection. Or amend it himself. And if your font is webdings or whatever, and the character for ohm doesn't look like an ohm, then you will get a pumpkin, or whatever, Then you are back with the mess that fonts were, before most software incorporated, and could utilize Unicode. That has nothing to do with this idea, that problem exists all on its own. You try webdings in the current Special Characters dialog and tell me that the problem would be purely in my extension. What happens when the programmer omits glyphs because s/he thinks that they are so rare/obscure that they will not be useḍ? As I stated, download a more complete filter/collection, or make one yourself. Chances are that any offical ones would be fairly complete to start with, but the whole point of my system (which is just how I envision the OP's enhancement idea) is that it would be extensible. I really should have called it a collection, rather than a filter, that might have avoided some confusion. Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Sounds simple enough (and useful) to me, and I'm not sure I agree with e-letter's objection above, Instead of the current theoretical maximum of 2000 page to search for a rarely used glyph, whose position is known, you'd have to search through 25000 pages for a glyph whose position is both unknown, and unknowable to all, except the creator of the font palette. Someone with more indepth knowledge care to comment on the feasibility of this? My suggestion is that an extension be made, either forking the Thunderbird extension _abcTajpu_, or one that requires the user add their 20-40 most used glyphs. jonaθon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/15/2013 01:19 PM, Paul wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:06:05 + jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds simple enough (and useful) to me, and I'm not sure I agree with e-letter's objection above, Instead of the current theoretical maximum of 2000 page to search for a rarely used glyph, whose position is known, you'd have to search through 25000 pages for a glyph whose position is both unknown, and unknowable to all, except the creator of the font palette. I really have no idea what you are talking about here... How does 2000 or 25000 come into it at all? We're simply talking about being able to filter the list by custom selections, be that their 20-40 most used, Engineering symbols, or whatever. They are talking about Unicode fonts. They could have 2 to 10 thousand glyphs, depending on which language glyphs are supported. What you are asking may be in the basic special character sets in Basic Latin, Latin-1, Latin Extended A and B, among other glyph sets in a well rounded font. There may be 100 to 500 glyphs in those sets in your popular fonts that are used. The sets do have names that are defined by the font standards, but I never remember the names or what goes where. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:34:33 -0500 Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: On 11/15/2013 01:19 PM, Paul wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:06:05 + jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds simple enough (and useful) to me, and I'm not sure I agree with e-letter's objection above, Instead of the current theoretical maximum of 2000 page to search for a rarely used glyph, whose position is known, you'd have to search through 25000 pages for a glyph whose position is both unknown, and unknowable to all, except the creator of the font palette. I really have no idea what you are talking about here... How does 2000 or 25000 come into it at all? We're simply talking about being able to filter the list by custom selections, be that their 20-40 most used, Engineering symbols, or whatever. They are talking about Unicode fonts. They could have 2 to 10 thousand glyphs, depending on which language glyphs are supported. What you are asking may be in the basic special character sets in Basic Latin, Latin-1, Latin Extended A and B, among other glyph sets in a well rounded font. There may be 100 to 500 glyphs in those sets in your popular fonts that are used. The sets do have names that are defined by the font standards, but I never remember the names or what goes where. That still doesn't make any sense. What is this theoretical 2000 page maximum? And why would the glyph's position be known? That's assuming you know where the glyph is. Most cases you would only know what it looks like, but not where it is in the list, hence why you would want some sort of filter to make it easier to find. And why would a filter on the special characters mean that you suddenly need to search through 25000 pages? You would need to search through *less* characters, not more, because you have filtered the list to only show a subset. As I see it, the major problem with this is that changing the font changes the available special characters. So any subset that was defined might not have all the characters available for the selected font, but surely that could be shown quite simply? Or would certain fonts have certain special characters at different unicode locations, i.e. would different fonts have different symbols for the same unicode point (or whatever it is called)? And where does the current list of subsets come from anyway? Is that defined within the font? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
I have two ideas. 1. Highlight the categories, so it is easy to tell where the category starts and ends. 2. Allow some input box so you could type some substring of the characters' names and get all matching characters. For example, if you typed equal, all characters with equal in the name would be listed. (I do not know if the names are i*18n or not.). I also have a related question. Is the some way to sort using LC_COLLATE=C, that is, the ASCII character set, rather than en_US.ISO8859-15 or something similar? Best regards, David Gast From: Regina Henschel [rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 07:55 To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters Hi Steve, Steve Gruspier schrieb: Hello: I was wondering if this was the place to request a feature. I was thinking the Special Character section is very cluttered. My feature request is a setting that would narrow down special characters to ones that are used in specific fields such as Engineering or Physics. Something along those lines that could help people become more efficient using Libreoffice. I am constantly using special characters such as the ohms (uppercase omega) symbol for resistance, particularly when I use Libreoffice to generate tests. I do not like the idea to remove characters or group them in another way. The Unicode groups are well defined and easy to handle. But I would like the idea of a user defined, favorite characters list or similar, or even more then one, each for a special topic. For your problem I think of this methods: * Write an Autotext or a document, which contains all your favorite characters. Open it beside your actual text and use copypaste to insert the characters. * Use your OS to insert the character by typing the number; you need a list of numbers beside your keyboard. * Use a macro to insert a special character. You can connect the macro to a button; I use the character itself as name of the button, so it is shown on the button. So you can generate your own toolbar with your favorite characters. For Writer such macro in Basic is for example (I hope the line end are set correctly in mail transport): Sub lcl_InsertCharacter_Writer(byval sChar as string) Dim oDoc as variant: oDoc = ThisComponent Dim oCurrentController as variant: oCurrentController = oDoc.getCurrentController() if not(oCurrentController.supportsService(com.sun.star.text.TextDocumentView)) then msgbox(Only for Writer) exit sub end if Dim oTextViewCursor as variant: oTextViewCursor = oCurrentController.getViewCursor() Dim oText as variant If IsEmpty(oTextViewCursor.Cell) Then oText=oTextViewCursor.Text Else oText=oTextViewCursor.Cell.Text End If oText.insertString(oTextViewCursor,sChar,false) End Sub That is the general method, and for each single character: sub OE_Lower_Ligature lcl_InsertCharacter_Writer(chr(clng(H153))) end sub Here H153 is the number of the character œ , H is the markup for a hex-number and 153 is the number itself, as can be seen in the special character dialog. Kind regards Regina -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 13/11/2013, Steve Gruspier s...@alfred.edu wrote: Hello: I was wondering if this was the place to request a feature. I was Perhaps as discussion, then submit via bugzilla. thinking the Special Character section is very cluttered. My feature request is a setting that would narrow down special characters to ones that are used in specific fields such as Engineering or Physics. Not a good idea; suppose 'ε' has different definitions for different disciplines. The dialogue window would have duplicates of each special character for each field because users would navigate to the field of personal interest and ignore other fields of knowledge. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:12:46 + e-letter inp...@gmail.com wrote: On 13/11/2013, Steve Gruspier s...@alfred.edu wrote: thinking the Special Character section is very cluttered. My feature request is a setting that would narrow down special characters to ones that are used in specific fields such as Engineering or Physics. Not a good idea; suppose 'ε' has different definitions for different disciplines. The dialogue window would have duplicates of each special character for each field because users would navigate to the field of personal interest and ignore other fields of knowledge. Actually, I like the idea. The current Special Characters dialog allows you to choose a font and a subset. I'm not entirely sure how the subset is derived (I'm really not that clued up on all the unicode complexities), but they seem to be just a quick way to navigate the large, complete list of characters. It might be more useful to have another dropdown that lets you choose a custom subset of characters, and only show that subset. Default subsets could be things like Engineering, Maths, etc, and you could design your own. Each subset would just have a list of which characters to display. Sounds simple enough (and useful) to me, and I'm not sure I agree with e-letter's objection above, but as I said, I don't understand the complexities of things like how changing the fonts might affect this, etc, so perhaps there are technical hurdles to this. Someone with more indepth knowledge care to comment on the feasability of this? Paul -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/13/2013 04:28 PM, Steve Gruspier wrote: Hello: I was wondering if this was the place to request a feature. I was thinking the Special Character section is very cluttered. My feature request is a setting that would narrow down special characters to ones that are used in specific fields such as Engineering or Physics. Something along those lines that could help people become more efficient using Libreoffice. I am constantly using special characters such as the ohms (uppercase omega) symbol for resistance, particularly when I use Libreoffice to generate tests. Who gets to decide which font glyphs get removed? Remember Special Characters is really a list of all of the glyphs that the font being used has defined. If I use Arial Unicode, I get all of those glyphs that are actual letters and such of non-Latin character-based languages, like Asian languages. How about the fonts that contain no letters but images and other glyphs, like arrows, dingbats, wingbats, and other images that may be needed to be used by the user. I use many fonts that are image only types in my document creations, form time to time. There are a vast number of specialty fonts that are designed to give the users images instead of letter style of glyphs. Now the big question - how do you define a new Special Character option like these are for Engineering and these are for Physics or Mathematics, that will know that this font does, or not, have the categories of glyphs for ALL of the 200,000 and more fonts out there? That is not something I would attempt. My collection of 200,000+ font files have such a variety of glyphs and placement of these glyphs, that there is no way to do what you ask unless you require a users to only use a preset set of fonts, and no others, in the Spacial Character options. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
Hi Steve, Steve Gruspier schrieb: Hello: I was wondering if this was the place to request a feature. I was thinking the Special Character section is very cluttered. My feature request is a setting that would narrow down special characters to ones that are used in specific fields such as Engineering or Physics. Something along those lines that could help people become more efficient using Libreoffice. I am constantly using special characters such as the ohms (uppercase omega) symbol for resistance, particularly when I use Libreoffice to generate tests. I do not like the idea to remove characters or group them in another way. The Unicode groups are well defined and easy to handle. But I would like the idea of a user defined, favorite characters list or similar, or even more then one, each for a special topic. For your problem I think of this methods: * Write an Autotext or a document, which contains all your favorite characters. Open it beside your actual text and use copypaste to insert the characters. * Use your OS to insert the character by typing the number; you need a list of numbers beside your keyboard. * Use a macro to insert a special character. You can connect the macro to a button; I use the character itself as name of the button, so it is shown on the button. So you can generate your own toolbar with your favorite characters. For Writer such macro in Basic is for example (I hope the line end are set correctly in mail transport): Sub lcl_InsertCharacter_Writer(byval sChar as string) Dim oDoc as variant: oDoc = ThisComponent Dim oCurrentController as variant: oCurrentController = oDoc.getCurrentController() if not(oCurrentController.supportsService(com.sun.star.text.TextDocumentView)) then msgbox(Only for Writer) exit sub end if Dim oTextViewCursor as variant: oTextViewCursor = oCurrentController.getViewCursor() Dim oText as variant If IsEmpty(oTextViewCursor.Cell) Then oText=oTextViewCursor.Text Else oText=oTextViewCursor.Cell.Text End If oText.insertString(oTextViewCursor,sChar,false) End Sub That is the general method, and for each single character: sub OE_Lower_Ligature lcl_InsertCharacter_Writer(chr(clng(H153))) end sub Here H153 is the number of the character œ , H is the markup for a hex-number and 153 is the number itself, as can be seen in the special character dialog. Kind regards Regina -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Feature Request - Categories for special characters
On 11/14/2013 10:55 AM, Regina Henschel wrote: Hi Steve, Steve Gruspier schrieb: Hello: I was wondering if this was the place to request a feature. I was thinking the Special Character section is very cluttered. My feature request is a setting that would narrow down special characters to ones that are used in specific fields such as Engineering or Physics. Something along those lines that could help people become more efficient using Libreoffice. I am constantly using special characters such as the ohms (uppercase omega) symbol for resistance, particularly when I use Libreoffice to generate tests. I do not like the idea to remove characters or group them in another way. The Unicode groups are well defined and easy to handle. But I would like the idea of a user defined, favorite characters list or similar, or even more then one, each for a special topic. For your problem I think of this methods: * Write an Autotext or a document, which contains all your favorite characters. Open it beside your actual text and use copypaste to insert the characters. * Use your OS to insert the character by typing the number; you need a list of numbers beside your keyboard. /snip/ The first suggestion is almost what you can do in WordPerfect. In WP, you can type ctrl-w and a package of 10 windows opens, each with about 40 special characters. Then you can hi-lite one and paste it. You probably only need one window so the proposed solution looks very reasonable. --doug -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
