Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Joe Conner]

On 07/19/2015 04:52 AM, Rob Jasper wrote:

Tim,

agree with you there- Cobol was considered e great modern productivity 
improvement. I started in assembly. Getting a system running by inserting the 
bootstrapper papertape on the first punched holes, ste the start address 
through phisical switches and press the start butten. Only after the 
bootstrapper was loaded the rest of the program could be loaded

We came a long way since then, but I agree that all the new stuff around now is 
depriving young people from basic understanding that a computer doesn't know 
anything, and is not capable of doing anything by itself.

Rob.
No matter how far computers have come, they still cannot count higher 
than one.

Blessings, Joe

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[James Knott]

On 07/19/2015 07:52 AM, Rob Jasper wrote:
> Getting a system running by inserting the bootstrapper papertape on the first 
> punched holes

On my first computer, I had to use the front toggle several bytes into
memory, before there was anything to run.  I also worked on some Data
General Nova computers which had the boot loader option.  I also worked
on a PDP-8i, where I had to toggle in the "RIM loader" before it could boot.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Rob Jasper]

Tim,

agree with you there- Cobol was considered e great modern productivity 
improvement. I started in assembly. Getting a system running by inserting the 
bootstrapper papertape on the first punched holes, ste the start address 
through phisical switches and press the start butten. Only after the 
bootstrapper was loaded the rest of the program could be loaded

We came a long way since then, but I agree that all the new stuff around now is 
depriving young people from basic understanding that a computer doesn't know 
anything, and is not capable of doing anything by itself.

Rob.

On 19 jul. 2015, at 02:02, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

> On 07/18/2015 11:54 AM, charles meyer wrote:
>> Hi Jack,
>> 
>> You’re most welcome.
>> 
>> I think many Windows users are married to old verbiage they heard
>> years ago (some unfounded) about how you’ll need to learn to code or
>> have to learn language like the old DOS to make Linux work and so
>> propelled by fear they remain with Windows.
>> 
>> I’m looking forward to all the good work and advancement Eric (on this
>> list) makes with his foray into voice recognition but can you or Gary
>> on this list or others recommend any Linux-based voice recognition?
>> 
>> Nuance has dragged their heels in so many ways including developing
>> voice recognition for more than one voice at a time so I don’t feel
>> like I can count on them to offer a Linux-based version by 2020 when
>> MS is supposed to end W7 support.
>> 
>> Thanks for disabusing readers of their “Linux-fear” in your article
>> and for your and others voice recognition recommendations.
>> 
>> Charles.
>> 
> 
> I started with computers when punch-cards were still common and computers 
> smaller than a refrigerator was not.
> 
> I wished I still remembered all the programming skills I have back then [but 
> that ended with the strokes].  Users are pampered with a GUI and other 
> "modern" items on their really small sized systems, compared to what I 
> started working with.  You try writing a general ledger accounting system 
> from scratch in COBOL and then tell me that people do not have it so easy 
> now.  Well, at least if you do not have to do the GUI programming from 
> scratch instead of using templates, or needing to do AI work withing a game 
> environment.  But the basic business stuff was much harder to produce back 
> then when colored printing, or even graphical printing, from a low to middle 
> environment business computer was not available at all.  I was programming 
> computers for over a decade before I ever saw a colored printer, let alone 
> afford one.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[James Wilde]

My son is a technical illiterate and one time, when I had got tired of
rescuing his scsrewed-up (often virus-infected) Windows box, I gave him
Ubuntu.  He only uses his computer to surf to his webmail and to
facebook.  Nonetheless, he came to me after a week and asked me to
re-install Windows as he 'didn't understand how to use linux'.  So now I
have an iso of his disk which I reinstall as necessary.  There's never
anything on the actual disk other than the operating system.

James
 
On 2015-07-19 02:02, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> On 07/18/2015 11:54 AM, charles meyer wrote:
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> You’re most welcome.
>>
>> I think many Windows users are married to old verbiage they heard
>> years ago (some unfounded) about how you’ll need to learn to code or
>> have to learn language like the old DOS to make Linux work and so
>> propelled by fear they remain with Windows.
>>
>> I’m looking forward to all the good work and advancement Eric (on this
>> list) makes with his foray into voice recognition but can you or Gary
>> on this list or others recommend any Linux-based voice recognition?
>>
>> Nuance has dragged their heels in so many ways including developing
>> voice recognition for more than one voice at a time so I don’t feel
>> like I can count on them to offer a Linux-based version by 2020 when
>> MS is supposed to end W7 support.
>>
>> Thanks for disabusing readers of their “Linux-fear” in your article
>> and for your and others voice recognition recommendations.
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>
> I started with computers when punch-cards were still common and
> computers smaller than a refrigerator was not.
>
> I wished I still remembered all the programming skills I have back
> then [but that ended with the strokes].  Users are pampered with a GUI
> and other "modern" items on their really small sized systems, compared
> to what I started working with.  You try writing a general ledger
> accounting system from scratch in COBOL and then tell me that people
> do not have it so easy now.  Well, at least if you do not have to do
> the GUI programming from scratch instead of using templates, or
> needing to do AI work withing a game environment.  But the basic
> business stuff was much harder to produce back then when colored
> printing, or even graphical printing, from a low to middle environment
> business computer was not available at all.  I was programming
> computers for over a decade before I ever saw a colored printer, let
> alone afford one.
>
>
>


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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[John Jason Jordan]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 18:10:21 -0400
Malgosia Askanas  dijo:

>On 2015-07-18 04:02 PM, Gary Dale wrote:
>> The top reason people find hard is almost certainly that you have to
>> install it.
>
>That's not entirely accurate.  There are a few (not many) companies
>that specialize in selling Linux-preinstalled machines.  The two that 
>immediately come to mind are System76.com and ThinkPenguin.com .

My System76 Bonobo Extreme boots Xubuntu from cold to ready to go to
work in nine seconds. LO Writer launches instantly, less than one
second. It was designed for gaming, but I use it mostly for writing
academic papers.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 07/18/2015 11:54 AM, charles meyer wrote:

Hi Jack,

You’re most welcome.

I think many Windows users are married to old verbiage they heard
years ago (some unfounded) about how you’ll need to learn to code or
have to learn language like the old DOS to make Linux work and so
propelled by fear they remain with Windows.

I’m looking forward to all the good work and advancement Eric (on this
list) makes with his foray into voice recognition but can you or Gary
on this list or others recommend any Linux-based voice recognition?

Nuance has dragged their heels in so many ways including developing
voice recognition for more than one voice at a time so I don’t feel
like I can count on them to offer a Linux-based version by 2020 when
MS is supposed to end W7 support.

Thanks for disabusing readers of their “Linux-fear” in your article
and for your and others voice recognition recommendations.

Charles.



I started with computers when punch-cards were still common and 
computers smaller than a refrigerator was not.


I wished I still remembered all the programming skills I have back then 
[but that ended with the strokes].  Users are pampered with a GUI and 
other "modern" items on their really small sized systems, compared to 
what I started working with.  You try writing a general ledger 
accounting system from scratch in COBOL and then tell me that people do 
not have it so easy now.  Well, at least if you do not have to do the 
GUI programming from scratch instead of using templates, or needing to 
do AI work withing a game environment.  But the basic business stuff was 
much harder to produce back then when colored printing, or even 
graphical printing, from a low to middle environment business computer 
was not available at all.  I was programming computers for over a decade 
before I ever saw a colored printer, let alone afford one.




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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 06:30 PM, Malgosia Askanas wrote:
Heh heh.  But then the _real_ top reason would be that you can't 
acquire a Linux machine in a hurry.  True enough.


No, the real reason is that people don't have the option in front of 
them to even realize that it is possible.


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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Malgosia Askanas]

Heh heh.  But then the _real_ top reason would be that you can't acquire 
a Linux machine in a hurry.  True enough.


On 2015-07-18 06:16 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 18/07/15 06:10 PM, Malgosia Askanas wrote:

On 2015-07-18 04:02 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

The top reason people find hard is almost certainly that you have to
install it.


That's not entirely accurate.  There are a few (not many) companies
that specialize in selling Linux-preinstalled machines. The two that
immediately come to mind are System76.com and ThinkPenguin.com .

-malgosia


True but largely irrelevant. You can't go to the local Best Buy or
Staples and pick up one.



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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 06:10 PM, Malgosia Askanas wrote:

On 2015-07-18 04:02 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

The top reason people find hard is almost certainly that you have to
install it.


That's not entirely accurate.  There are a few (not many) companies 
that specialize in selling Linux-preinstalled machines. The two that 
immediately come to mind are System76.com and ThinkPenguin.com .


-malgosia

True but largely irrelevant. You can't go to the local Best Buy or 
Staples and pick up one.


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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Malgosia Askanas]

On 2015-07-18 04:02 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

The top reason people find hard is almost certainly that you have to
install it.


That's not entirely accurate.  There are a few (not many) companies that 
specialize in selling Linux-preinstalled machines.  The two that 
immediately come to mind are System76.com and ThinkPenguin.com .


-malgosia

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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[James Knott]

On 07/18/2015 05:56 PM, Tom Williams wrote:
> Comments about how
> Linux is good for "basic" things and not good for "productivity".

Tell that to all the scientists who use supercomputers.  The vast
majority of them, including my cousin, run Linux.  Also, a while ago,
all the computers on the International Space Station were switched from
Windows to Linux.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/open-source-insider/2013/05/international-space-station-adopts-debian-linux-drop-windows-red-hat-into-airlock.html

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/155392-international-space-station-switches-from-windows-to-linux-for-improved-reliability

Apparently viruses can even survive in space!

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/12/international-space-station-virus-epidemics-malware

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 05:15 PM, Harvey Nimmo wrote:

On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 16:05 -0400, Gary Dale wrote:

On 18/07/15 02:25 PM, Harvey Nimmo wrote:

On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 08:21 -0400, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

On 07/18/2015 03:42 AM, Eric wrote:

On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:

For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was
interesting.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/


No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
Dragon Naturally Speaking.

There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
recognition software.

That can be a deal breaker.

yes it can be. As someone dependent on NaturallySpeaking,  I can tell
you that most of the native limits speech recognition solutions do not
measure up and would probably take a multimillion dollar effort to
make a functional equivalent.

   Then there is the issue of supporting it, fixing bugs, adding
features, working with the community current open-source funding
techniques just don't measure up to the financial needs of critical
projects like this would be.

   So how is it, I am using NaturallySpeaking to dictate on the next?
Well the wine solution is pretty fragile and doesn't work with the
latest NaturallySpeaking. It still has problems with using community
supported extensions such as natlink and vocola.

   Instead, I'm using a different solution which is running
NaturallySpeaking in a Windows virtual machine and using a tool I
developed called speech bridge (See github)  to link speech
recognition functionality in Windows to whatever the hell Linux is doing.

   It's moving slow, I am changing things as I need them. I'm getting to
the point where I could use some assistance but I'm going to hold off
asking until I have a good specification/Definition.

--- eric


There are only two or three Win-only software I need to use, that I have
not found an easy to use alternative for a .deb based Linux OS.  Also, I
have not found any way to use my external USB-based wifi antenna, for
"better/faster" useful access 10 floors below my router's antennas.  IF
so, then Linux would be use for that work "environment",

Also, for the "speech issue", I have never been able to got that to work
properly for Ubuntu and Linux Mint, as least text to speech.  I have not
worked with speech to text or speech "system control" before, so I have
not really looked into that, much.

I couldn't find a good OCR solution for linux either. Project for
someone?

Cheers
Harvey

You're kidding right? Check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OCR
for a quick overview of the current state of affairs.


No, I'm not really kidding. Command line programs are only the start of the 
journey.
It is quite a bit more to have something that is well integrated with
the corresponding display and text tools.


The command line tools are excellent but they are just the backends. 
Choose the GUI that suits your purposes. Some are better tuned to 
preserving column structures while others do a great job on multiple 
pages You have choice. You can use a different GUI or different 
backend for different purposes.


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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Tom Williams]

On 07/18/2015 10:44 AM, Felmon Davis wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015, Thomas wrote:
>
>> Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
>> I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly
>> with Linux for 7-8 years now!
>> So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.
>
> this makes me wonder what the top two or three things are that people
> find hard in adopting Linux.
>

I've found a number of people simply expect _any_ computer to look, act,
and feel like Windows.   I installed LibreOffice on the computer of a
client of mine because MS Office Starter Edition kept acting funny when
he would try to open MS Office documents attached to email messages. 
One day, we were talking about his using Excel vs Calc to update a
spreadsheet.  He insisted he couldn't use Calc because it didn't do what
Excel did.  I asked him to show me the things he could do in Excel but
couldn't do in Calc and we both discovered he actually _could_ do all of
the things he needed to do in Calc but the way he needed to do those
things were a little different.  In another case, I showed an IT guy I
used to work with an Ubuntu system.  He wanted to run an application and
went straight to the lower left corner of the screen, looking for the
"Start" menu.

The more people learn Windows, especially as their first computing
interface, the more they tend to think "all" computers behave that way. 
Of course, this isn't an absolute statement.  :)

Something else I've found is non-Linux users tend to expect a higher
standard of performance from Linux for it to even be considered a
"viable option".  For example, if Linux can't support {fill in the
blank} perfectly, "Linux isn't ready for prime time".  Let's forget the
fact that Windows might have issues supporting {fill in the blank} as
well.  lol

This thread could not have come at a better time since I recently read
the TechRepublic article and another article about Linux being an
alternative to Windows.  In the other article, I was floored by various
comments made by others who had read that article.  Comments about how
Linux is good for "basic" things and not good for "productivity".  So,
if you want to just read email and surf mainstream websites, Linux is
great.  If you want to do "real" work, you need Windows for that.   I
had to laugh since I find myself doing "real" and "productive" work on
Linux on a daily basis, and without using the command line unless I want
to use ImageMagick to process some images in batch.

I've switched my mom to Linux and while she's not doing anything
sophisticated, I've noticed her computer question volume has decreased
significantly.  Her computer usage hasn't changed much from when she
used Windows XP except I think she's actually listening to more music on
her computer now, while reading email and surfing the web.

Sorry for being so long winded.  :)

Peace...

"The other" Tom

-- 
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[James Knott]

On 07/18/2015 11:00 AM, Gary Dale wrote:
> And after looking at Windows 8, it seems to be getting worse, not better. 

I have to use 8.1 on my work computer and have 10 in a virtual machine. 
While 10 is an improvement on 8.1, it's still nowhere near what W7 was.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Ian Whitfield]

I couldn't find a good OCR solution for linux either. Project for
someone?

Cheers
Harvey


I also battled to find a good OCR program for a couple of years on my 
Linux System (PClinuxOS)!!


Then about two years or eighteen months back I came across the 
combination of YAGF with Tesseract.
This combination works fantastically with basically just "clean-up" to 
do on almost any scanned document.


I can recommend this to anyone who needs, or uses, OCR as a regular job, 
(as I do).


IanW
Pretoria RSA.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Harvey Nimmo]

On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 16:05 -0400, Gary Dale wrote:
> On 18/07/15 02:25 PM, Harvey Nimmo wrote:
> > On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 08:21 -0400, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> >> On 07/18/2015 03:42 AM, Eric wrote:
> >>> On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:
>  For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was
>  interesting.
> 
>  http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/
> 
> 
>  No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
>  Dragon Naturally Speaking.
> 
>  There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
>  recognition software.
> 
>  That can be a deal breaker.
> >>> yes it can be. As someone dependent on NaturallySpeaking,  I can tell
> >>> you that most of the native limits speech recognition solutions do not
> >>> measure up and would probably take a multimillion dollar effort to
> >>> make a functional equivalent.
> >>>
> >>>   Then there is the issue of supporting it, fixing bugs, adding
> >>> features, working with the community current open-source funding
> >>> techniques just don't measure up to the financial needs of critical
> >>> projects like this would be.
> >>>
> >>>   So how is it, I am using NaturallySpeaking to dictate on the next?
> >>> Well the wine solution is pretty fragile and doesn't work with the
> >>> latest NaturallySpeaking. It still has problems with using community
> >>> supported extensions such as natlink and vocola.
> >>>
> >>>   Instead, I'm using a different solution which is running
> >>> NaturallySpeaking in a Windows virtual machine and using a tool I
> >>> developed called speech bridge (See github)  to link speech
> >>> recognition functionality in Windows to whatever the hell Linux is doing.
> >>>
> >>>   It's moving slow, I am changing things as I need them. I'm getting to
> >>> the point where I could use some assistance but I'm going to hold off
> >>> asking until I have a good specification/Definition.
> >>>
> >>> --- eric
> >>>
> >> There are only two or three Win-only software I need to use, that I have
> >> not found an easy to use alternative for a .deb based Linux OS.  Also, I
> >> have not found any way to use my external USB-based wifi antenna, for
> >> "better/faster" useful access 10 floors below my router's antennas.  IF
> >> so, then Linux would be use for that work "environment",
> >>
> >> Also, for the "speech issue", I have never been able to got that to work
> >> properly for Ubuntu and Linux Mint, as least text to speech.  I have not
> >> worked with speech to text or speech "system control" before, so I have
> >> not really looked into that, much.
> > I couldn't find a good OCR solution for linux either. Project for
> > someone?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Harvey
> 
> You're kidding right? Check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OCR 
> for a quick overview of the current state of affairs.
> 
No, I'm not really kidding. Command line programs are only the start of the 
journey.
It is quite a bit more to have something that is well integrated with
the corresponding display and text tools.
  



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[toki]

On 07/18/2015 05:29 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

> If programs plan to become cross-platform then initially writing for Linux 
> seems to be the optimum route. 

If a programming team delivers a usable Linux product in one year, then
for a second platform, it will take the same team six months to deliver it.

If a programming team delivers a usable Windows product in one year,
then it will take a second team that is twice the size of the first
team, two years, to deliver the program on a different platform.

FWIW, writing to WINE/LibWINE is equivalent to writing a program for
Windows, in terms of overall productivity, and cross-platform support.

Furthermore, with WINE/LibWINE, your program won't have the same look
and feel as other software on the same platform.

jonathon

  * English - detected
  * English

  * English

  <#>
> Writing for Wine is a neat trick that i have not heard of before.  It
sounds like it neatly avoids any need for porting at all.

It also means that bug fixing is an order of magnitude more
difficult,because bug isolation requires looking at:
* your source code;
* The WINE/LibWIN library;
* The OS that the bug was reported on;


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 02:25 PM, Harvey Nimmo wrote:

On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 08:21 -0400, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

On 07/18/2015 03:42 AM, Eric wrote:

On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:

For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was
interesting.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/


No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
Dragon Naturally Speaking.

There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
recognition software.

That can be a deal breaker.

yes it can be. As someone dependent on NaturallySpeaking,  I can tell
you that most of the native limits speech recognition solutions do not
measure up and would probably take a multimillion dollar effort to
make a functional equivalent.

  Then there is the issue of supporting it, fixing bugs, adding
features, working with the community current open-source funding
techniques just don't measure up to the financial needs of critical
projects like this would be.

  So how is it, I am using NaturallySpeaking to dictate on the next?
Well the wine solution is pretty fragile and doesn't work with the
latest NaturallySpeaking. It still has problems with using community
supported extensions such as natlink and vocola.

  Instead, I'm using a different solution which is running
NaturallySpeaking in a Windows virtual machine and using a tool I
developed called speech bridge (See github)  to link speech
recognition functionality in Windows to whatever the hell Linux is doing.

  It's moving slow, I am changing things as I need them. I'm getting to
the point where I could use some assistance but I'm going to hold off
asking until I have a good specification/Definition.

--- eric


There are only two or three Win-only software I need to use, that I have
not found an easy to use alternative for a .deb based Linux OS.  Also, I
have not found any way to use my external USB-based wifi antenna, for
"better/faster" useful access 10 floors below my router's antennas.  IF
so, then Linux would be use for that work "environment",

Also, for the "speech issue", I have never been able to got that to work
properly for Ubuntu and Linux Mint, as least text to speech.  I have not
worked with speech to text or speech "system control" before, so I have
not really looked into that, much.

I couldn't find a good OCR solution for linux either. Project for
someone?

Cheers
Harvey


You're kidding right? Check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OCR 
for a quick overview of the current state of affairs.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[yahoo-pier_andreit]

On 07/18/2015 02:39 PM, Paolo Debortoli wrote:

hi. personal experience.  I started using linux about 12 years ago installation 
and configuration are just a bit longer than in windows systems  (but you can 
find a lot of documentation). Linux systems are, by the way, more transparent 
(if you want to know what happens behind the interface), customizable and 
versatile than windows systems. You can run linux on micro computers  (e.g. 
raspberry), very old computers (I have ubuntu on a notebook with 256 mb ram); 
you can use a wider set of data formats (texts, images...)  and so on.  then it 
depends on your needs: if you have particular softwares or hardwares that 
require windows...  However, open source software (LibreOffice, Gimp, 
Blender...) has made impressive progresses in the last years, so that just a 
small number of users can note the difference (provided they don't just trust 
the name or think that higher costs mean higher quality).

Paolo  Debortoli



yes, but as I say, you are quite expert, my sister had a pc with 
windows, and to allow her to use linux the only way is to install linux 
by me :-)  :-)






On Saturday, July 18, 2015 10:31 AM, yahoo-pier_andreit  
wrote:
On 07/18/2015 09:32 AM, Thomas wrote:

On 2015/07/18 6:50, Jack Wallen wrote:

Thank you for sharing that, Charles (I'm the author). Glad to know it
resonated.

Jack

Thank YOU, Mr. Wallen, for your article.
Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly
with Linux for 7-8 years now!
So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.






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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 01:44 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015, Thomas wrote:


Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly 
with Linux for 7-8 years now!

So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.


this makes me wonder what the top two or three things are that people 
find hard in adopting Linux.


I don't want to count the yrs I've used Linux. I was never a full-time 
user of Windows, I used OS/2 before Linux and Desqview on some version 
of DOS before that.


for the most part I'm barely aware of the operating system: launch a 
program and work or play is my mode. never gave up command-line habits 
either, the pictures confuse me like holding a conversation via charades.


f.



The top reason people find hard is almost certainly that you have to 
install it. Windows comes pre-installed and there are always those nice 
people in the  who will reformat your drive 
and reinstall Windows for only a small charge once it gets messed up.  :)


The other two reasons are:
- package  that I depend on only runs on Windows, and
- game  only runs on Windows.

All three problems are going away slowly but not without M$ fighting back.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 01:29 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
+1

But Wine is about bondage in the sense that it keeps you using stuff 
that is made for Windows.



Making stuff that needs Wine in order to work kinda keeps you 
locked-in to the Windows world.


By contrast we see many native Gnu&Linux programs are then ported over 
to Mac and Windows apparently without a huge amount of effort.  
Firefox and LibreOffice/OpenOffice are great examples of that as they 
have then become serious competitors to alternatives that were only 
written for Windows and then have been unable to be ported to anything 
else.


If programs plan to become cross-platform then initially writing for 
Linux seems to be the optimum route. Writing for Mac seems to be the 
next best option.


Starting with Windows means programs or almost anything else faces a 
nightmare up-hill struggle.  Even Microsoft themselves take an extra 
whole year to port their office suite to Mac and even then it's a 
stripped-down version.



Writing for Wine is a neat trick that i have not heard of before.  It 
sounds like it neatly avoids any need for porting at all.  Wine runs 
on Mac too so that is all 3 major platform covered in one hit.  It 
feels like there must be an inherent flaw aside from the ethical issue 
of not quite breaking free of the Windows world.  If not why on earth 
wouldn't everyone be doing this? ;)


Regards from
Tom :)

Not at all. Wine gives people the opportunity to leave Windows while 
still running the same software. So long as that software is under a 
Free license, what makes it any different from stuff that runs on JVM 
(for example)?


I don't need to port my programs when I use Wine/Libwine. They run 
perfectly on both platforms, And I don't need to have anything to do 
with Windows whereas if I "port" my programs, I need a Windows platform 
to test them on.


I feel like I'm perfectly free from the Windows world except that I need 
a VM to run an income tax program and to run Windows versions of 
browsers (did you know that the Windows version of Firefox doesn't 
always render pages the same as the Linux version?).


There is actually a fair amount of software developed to Windows APIs. 
Samba and Mono (and programs that use Mono) are two that come to mind 
immediately. Some people oppose this (especially when the Windows APIs 
aren't public) but others accept it as a small price to pay to spread 
Free Software.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 01:04 PM, Luuk wrote:

On 18-7-2015 18:00, Gary Dale wrote:

Windows is like a pyramid scheme that way. They sucker developers into
using only their products so that users have no choice but to buy
licenses to run their products properly.



And that is exactly why you should not _DEVELOP_ using libwine

(using it, because there's not yeat a good alternative, is a complete 
different story




That's not really a good argument. Software freedom is about choice. A 
lot of people don't have the option to quit Windows right away (if ever) 
so I give them the option of running software that runs on multiple 
platforms - the same as Mozilla, The Document Foundation, GIMP and a lot 
of others do.


Being Open Source and under a Free License, I can't keep anyone else 
from recompiling my software to run on Windows, so why shouldn't I do it 
myself?


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Harvey Nimmo]

On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 12:00 -0400, Gary Dale wrote:
> On 18/07/15 11:35 AM, Luuk wrote:
> > On 17-7-2015 23:47, Gary Dale wrote:
> >> On 17/07/15 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:
> >>> For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was 
> >>> interesting.
> >>>
> > 
> >
> >> Frankly though, I'm confused as to why more software vendors don't
> >> compile to libwine .
> >>
> >
> > libwine is about 'bondage'..
> >
> >> It seems some people are just into bondage.  :)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> Not really. Wine has a free license (LGPL). While the individual 
> programs you run on Wine may have other licenses, you aren't obligated 
> to use programs whose license doesn't meet your expectations.
> 
> What Wine and Libwine do is allow developers to develop and test 
> cross-platform programs on a Linux platform. I have a program that I 
> developed exactly that way. While I could compile a Linux-specific 
> version, I find it easier to just market the single version since it 
> runs on Linux and Windows.
> 
> The point is that there is no extra work to develop and sell a Linux 
> version of your software if you use the right products. And you not only 
> get a larger target market but also give your customers greater flexibility.
> 
> For example, I support a small office that uses a Windows-only program. 
> The developers not only don't make a Linux version but they double-down 
> on bondage by only using Windows databases (Access or SQLServer for an 
> extra charge). Had they supported MySQL/MariaDB, I could have at least 
> moved the database to a separate server without worrying about extra 
> licensing, etc..
> 
> Windows is like a pyramid scheme that way. They sucker developers into 
> using only their products so that users have no choice but to buy 
> licenses to run their products properly.
> 
The rather dishonest propaganda of proprietary software tends to be: "if
you don't pay for a product, then you *are* the product". What they fail
to say is that if you do pay for a product, you are also the product and
pay considerably to remain the product as well.

Cheers
Harvey


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Harvey Nimmo]

On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 08:21 -0400, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> On 07/18/2015 03:42 AM, Eric wrote:
> > On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:
> >> For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was 
> >> interesting.
> >>
> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
> >> Dragon Naturally Speaking.
> >>
> >> There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
> >> recognition software.
> >>
> >> That can be a deal breaker.
> > yes it can be. As someone dependent on NaturallySpeaking,  I can tell 
> > you that most of the native limits speech recognition solutions do not 
> > measure up and would probably take a multimillion dollar effort to 
> > make a functional equivalent.
> >
> >  Then there is the issue of supporting it, fixing bugs, adding 
> > features, working with the community current open-source funding 
> > techniques just don't measure up to the financial needs of critical 
> > projects like this would be.
> >
> >  So how is it, I am using NaturallySpeaking to dictate on the next? 
> > Well the wine solution is pretty fragile and doesn't work with the 
> > latest NaturallySpeaking. It still has problems with using community 
> > supported extensions such as natlink and vocola.
> >
> >  Instead, I'm using a different solution which is running 
> > NaturallySpeaking in a Windows virtual machine and using a tool I 
> > developed called speech bridge (See github)  to link speech 
> > recognition functionality in Windows to whatever the hell Linux is doing.
> >
> >  It's moving slow, I am changing things as I need them. I'm getting to 
> > the point where I could use some assistance but I'm going to hold off 
> > asking until I have a good specification/Definition.
> >
> > --- eric
> >
> 
> There are only two or three Win-only software I need to use, that I have 
> not found an easy to use alternative for a .deb based Linux OS.  Also, I 
> have not found any way to use my external USB-based wifi antenna, for 
> "better/faster" useful access 10 floors below my router's antennas.  IF 
> so, then Linux would be use for that work "environment",
> 
> Also, for the "speech issue", I have never been able to got that to work 
> properly for Ubuntu and Linux Mint, as least text to speech.  I have not 
> worked with speech to text or speech "system control" before, so I have 
> not really looked into that, much.

I couldn't find a good OCR solution for linux either. Project for
someone?

Cheers
Harvey


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Re: [OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I'm sure people on this mailing list might be happy to help with 1 or 2
questions about how to do a certain thing or 2 in linux.  Such questions
often turn out to be quite popular threads even though they are a little
"off-topic".

I think a lot of people take a similar route to me.  Even now i still use
Windows occasionally (admittedly usually only because i'm forced to or
because someone doesn't know how to use it and/or has broken it).

I suspect that most linux users have a dual-boot somewhere with an option
to boot into Windows.  I think it's something that almost everyone does
somewhere near the start of their journey into linux land.  I guess what
i'm saying is that i suspect that linux usage is always growing so fast
that most linux users are fairly new - that certainly seemed true in the
Vista era and maybe early in Win8's era too.


Err wrt "In most instances, all an argument proves is that two people are
present." i don't think that is true at all.  I have often seen people
disagreeing with a position they were recently adamant about.  For example
my boss orders me to do something.  I do it.  Then he tells me off for
doing it and claims he'd never had said that.  I've also found myself
arguing with myself too.  I'm not sure if an argument is possible even if
no-one is present but it wouldn't surprise me.  ;)

Regards from
Tom :)





On 18 July 2015 at 18:44, Felmon Davis  wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015, Thomas wrote:
>
>  Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
>> I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly
>> with Linux for 7-8 years now!
>> So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.
>>
>
> this makes me wonder what the top two or three things are that people find
> hard in adopting Linux.
>
> I don't want to count the yrs I've used Linux. I was never a full-time
> user of Windows, I used OS/2 before Linux and Desqview on some version of
> DOS before that.
>
> for the most part I'm barely aware of the operating system: launch a
> program and work or play is my mode. never gave up command-line habits
> either, the pictures confuse me like holding a conversation via charades.
>
> f.
>
> --
> Felmon Davis
>
> In most instances, all an argument proves is that two people are present.
>
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[OT] Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Felmon Davis]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015, Thomas wrote:


Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly 
with Linux for 7-8 years now!

So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.


this makes me wonder what the top two or three things are that people 
find hard in adopting Linux.


I don't want to count the yrs I've used Linux. I was never a 
full-time user of Windows, I used OS/2 before Linux and Desqview on 
some version of DOS before that.


for the most part I'm barely aware of the operating system: launch a 
program and work or play is my mode. never gave up command-line habits 
either, the pictures confuse me like holding a conversation via 
charades.


f.

--
Felmon Davis

In most instances, all an argument proves is that two people are 
present.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1

But Wine is about bondage in the sense that it keeps you using stuff that
is made for Windows.


Making stuff that needs Wine in order to work kinda keeps you locked-in to
the Windows world.

By contrast we see many native Gnu&Linux programs are then ported over to
Mac and Windows apparently without a huge amount of effort.  Firefox and
LibreOffice/OpenOffice are great examples of that as they have then become
serious competitors to alternatives that were only written for Windows and
then have been unable to be ported to anything else.

If programs plan to become cross-platform then initially writing for Linux
seems to be the optimum route.  Writing for Mac seems to be the next best
option.

Starting with Windows means programs or almost anything else faces a
nightmare up-hill struggle.  Even Microsoft themselves take an extra whole
year to port their office suite to Mac and even then it's a stripped-down
version.


Writing for Wine is a neat trick that i have not heard of before.  It
sounds like it neatly avoids any need for porting at all.  Wine runs on Mac
too so that is all 3 major platform covered in one hit.  It feels like
there must be an inherent flaw aside from the ethical issue of not quite
breaking free of the Windows world.  If not why on earth wouldn't everyone
be doing this? ;)

Regards from
Tom :)







On 18 July 2015 at 17:00, Gary Dale  wrote:

> On 18/07/15 11:35 AM, Luuk wrote:
>
>> On 17-7-2015 23:47, Gary Dale wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/07/15 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:
>>>
 For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was
 interesting.

  
>>
>>  Frankly though, I'm confused as to why more software vendors don't
>>> compile to libwine .
>>>
>>>
>> libwine is about 'bondage'..
>>
>>  It seems some people are just into bondage.  :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  Not really. Wine has a free license (LGPL). While the individual
> programs you run on Wine may have other licenses, you aren't obligated to
> use programs whose license doesn't meet your expectations.
>
> What Wine and Libwine do is allow developers to develop and test
> cross-platform programs on a Linux platform. I have a program that I
> developed exactly that way. While I could compile a Linux-specific version,
> I find it easier to just market the single version since it runs on Linux
> and Windows.
>
> The point is that there is no extra work to develop and sell a Linux
> version of your software if you use the right products. And you not only
> get a larger target market but also give your customers greater flexibility.
>
> For example, I support a small office that uses a Windows-only program.
> The developers not only don't make a Linux version but they double-down on
> bondage by only using Windows databases (Access or SQLServer for an extra
> charge). Had they supported MySQL/MariaDB, I could have at least moved the
> database to a separate server without worrying about extra licensing, etc..
>
> Windows is like a pyramid scheme that way. They sucker developers into
> using only their products so that users have no choice but to buy licenses
> to run their products properly.
>
>
> --
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Luuk]

On 18-7-2015 18:00, Gary Dale wrote:

Windows is like a pyramid scheme that way. They sucker developers into
using only their products so that users have no choice but to buy
licenses to run their products properly.



And that is exactly why you should not _DEVELOP_ using libwine

(using it, because there's not yeat a good alternative, is a complete 
different story




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 11:35 AM, Luuk wrote:

On 17-7-2015 23:47, Gary Dale wrote:

On 17/07/15 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:
For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was 
interesting.






Frankly though, I'm confused as to why more software vendors don't
compile to libwine .



libwine is about 'bondage'..


It seems some people are just into bondage.  :)





Not really. Wine has a free license (LGPL). While the individual 
programs you run on Wine may have other licenses, you aren't obligated 
to use programs whose license doesn't meet your expectations.


What Wine and Libwine do is allow developers to develop and test 
cross-platform programs on a Linux platform. I have a program that I 
developed exactly that way. While I could compile a Linux-specific 
version, I find it easier to just market the single version since it 
runs on Linux and Windows.


The point is that there is no extra work to develop and sell a Linux 
version of your software if you use the right products. And you not only 
get a larger target market but also give your customers greater flexibility.


For example, I support a small office that uses a Windows-only program. 
The developers not only don't make a Linux version but they double-down 
on bondage by only using Windows databases (Access or SQLServer for an 
extra charge). Had they supported MySQL/MariaDB, I could have at least 
moved the database to a separate server without worrying about extra 
licensing, etc..


Windows is like a pyramid scheme that way. They sucker developers into 
using only their products so that users have no choice but to buy 
licenses to run their products properly.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Luuk]

On 17-7-2015 23:47, Gary Dale wrote:

On 17/07/15 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:

For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was interesting.





Frankly though, I'm confused as to why more software vendors don't
compile to libwine .



libwine is about 'bondage'..


It seems some people are just into bondage.  :)





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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 18/07/15 04:31 AM, yahoo-pier_andreit wrote:

On 07/18/2015 09:32 AM, Thomas wrote:

On 2015/07/18 6:50, Jack Wallen wrote:

Thank you for sharing that, Charles (I'm the author). Glad to know it
resonated.

Jack

Thank YOU, Mr. Wallen, for your article.
Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly
with Linux for 7-8 years now!
So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.



many thanks jack, :-)
I'm not an expert, I start to use linux, basically opensuse, in 2000, 
and I agree with thomas, my son, my sister, my nephews uses linux, 
but, if I didn't install it and configure it and solved the problems 
that rised up and sometimes continues to pop up, they never started to 
use linux. too complicate... :-)


The same issue afflicts Windows. It's just that Windows usually comes 
pre-installed. Having performed a lot of installs of both types, I've 
found the Linux installs to be simpler and a lot faster. Windows may get 
to the login screen a bit faster but then you've got interminable 
updates to install with reboots needed between most of them.


As for needing assistance, I find a lot more problems cropping up with 
Windows than with Linux. And yes, most end-users aren't equipped to deal 
with them but that isn't dependent on the operating system. However 
fixing Windows problems is more difficult and sometimes even fruitless 
(e.g. Windows Updates that mysteriously fail).


I've used Linux pretty much exclusively (except for an income tax 
program that I haven't got to work in wine) for 18 years. I find Windows 
to be awkward and limiting. And after looking at Windows 8, it seems to 
be getting worse, not better.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Paolo Debortoli]

hi. personal experience.  I started using linux about 12 years ago installation 
and configuration are just a bit longer than in windows systems  (but you can 
find a lot of documentation). Linux systems are, by the way, more transparent 
(if you want to know what happens behind the interface), customizable and 
versatile than windows systems. You can run linux on micro computers  (e.g. 
raspberry), very old computers (I have ubuntu on a notebook with 256 mb ram); 
you can use a wider set of data formats (texts, images...)  and so on.  then it 
depends on your needs: if you have particular softwares or hardwares that 
require windows...  However, open source software (LibreOffice, Gimp, 
Blender...) has made impressive progresses in the last years, so that just a 
small number of users can note the difference (provided they don't just trust 
the name or think that higher costs mean higher quality).

Paolo  Debortoli




On Saturday, July 18, 2015 10:31 AM, yahoo-pier_andreit  
wrote:
On 07/18/2015 09:32 AM, Thomas wrote:
> On 2015/07/18 6:50, Jack Wallen wrote:
>> Thank you for sharing that, Charles (I'm the author). Glad to know it
>> resonated.
>>
>> Jack
> Thank YOU, Mr. Wallen, for your article.
> Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
> I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly
> with Linux for 7-8 years now!
> So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 07/18/2015 03:42 AM, Eric wrote:

On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:
For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was 
interesting.


http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/ 



No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
Dragon Naturally Speaking.

There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
recognition software.

That can be a deal breaker.
yes it can be. As someone dependent on NaturallySpeaking,  I can tell 
you that most of the native limits speech recognition solutions do not 
measure up and would probably take a multimillion dollar effort to 
make a functional equivalent.


 Then there is the issue of supporting it, fixing bugs, adding 
features, working with the community current open-source funding 
techniques just don't measure up to the financial needs of critical 
projects like this would be.


 So how is it, I am using NaturallySpeaking to dictate on the next? 
Well the wine solution is pretty fragile and doesn't work with the 
latest NaturallySpeaking. It still has problems with using community 
supported extensions such as natlink and vocola.


 Instead, I'm using a different solution which is running 
NaturallySpeaking in a Windows virtual machine and using a tool I 
developed called speech bridge (See github)  to link speech 
recognition functionality in Windows to whatever the hell Linux is doing.


 It's moving slow, I am changing things as I need them. I'm getting to 
the point where I could use some assistance but I'm going to hold off 
asking until I have a good specification/Definition.


--- eric



There are only two or three Win-only software I need to use, that I have 
not found an easy to use alternative for a .deb based Linux OS.  Also, I 
have not found any way to use my external USB-based wifi antenna, for 
"better/faster" useful access 10 floors below my router's antennas.  IF 
so, then Linux would be use for that work "environment",


Also, for the "speech issue", I have never been able to got that to work 
properly for Ubuntu and Linux Mint, as least text to speech.  I have not 
worked with speech to text or speech "system control" before, so I have 
not really looked into that, much.





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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[yahoo-pier_andreit]

On 07/18/2015 09:32 AM, Thomas wrote:

On 2015/07/18 6:50, Jack Wallen wrote:

Thank you for sharing that, Charles (I'm the author). Glad to know it
resonated.

Jack

Thank YOU, Mr. Wallen, for your article.
Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly
with Linux for 7-8 years now!
So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.



many thanks jack, :-)
I'm not an expert, I start to use linux, basically opensuse, in 2000, 
and I agree with thomas, my son, my sister, my nephews uses linux, but, 
if I didn't install it and configure it and solved the problems that 
rised up and sometimes continues to pop up, they never started to use 
linux. too complicate... :-)



To quote from your article:
"Each of these distributions ... are ideal for users seeking an
alternative to Windows. ... They are user-friendly and will get the job
done."
That is definitely NOT my experience.
Maybe the statement (and Linux) is meant for computer specialists. I am
not one of those.

Whenever I ask my (what must sound to the computer experts) stupid
questions, I get in every of the many friendly communities the advice:
"If you don't know s**t about computers, you should not dare go near the
damn thing (=Linux)."

My experience is, that Linux is making the transition VERY difficult for
non-experts, ordinary mortal men, that "just"
want to work with the computer - without knowing about computer science,
software design, programming techniques etc.

But I am probably boring you.
Sorry for that.
Thomas





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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Eric]

On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:

For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was interesting.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/

No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
Dragon Naturally Speaking.

There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
recognition software.

That can be a deal breaker.
yes it can be. As someone dependent on NaturallySpeaking,  I can tell 
you that most of the native limits speech recognition solutions do not 
measure up and would probably take a multimillion dollar effort to make 
a functional equivalent.


 Then there is the issue of supporting it, fixing bugs, adding 
features, working with the community current open-source funding 
techniques just don't measure up to the financial needs of critical 
projects like this would be.


 So how is it, I am using NaturallySpeaking to dictate on the next? 
Well the wine solution is pretty fragile and doesn't work with the 
latest NaturallySpeaking. It still has problems with using community 
supported extensions such as natlink and vocola.


 Instead, I'm using a different solution which is running 
NaturallySpeaking in a Windows virtual machine and using a tool I 
developed called speech bridge (See github)  to link speech recognition 
functionality in Windows to whatever the hell Linux is doing.


 It's moving slow, I am changing things as I need them. I'm getting to 
the point where I could use some assistance but I'm going to hold off 
asking until I have a good specification/Definition.


--- eric

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Thomas]

On 2015/07/18 6:50, Jack Wallen wrote:
Thank you for sharing that, Charles (I'm the author). Glad to know it 
resonated.


Jack

Thank YOU, Mr. Wallen, for your article.
Although I know, this does not belong here, just a word.
I have been trying (STRUGGLING) to move away from MS and get friendly 
with Linux for 7-8 years now!

So far with little success. Yet, I still keep trying.

To quote from your article:
"Each of these distributions ... are ideal for users seeking an 
alternative to Windows. ... They are user-friendly and will get the job 
done."

That is definitely NOT my experience.
Maybe the statement (and Linux) is meant for computer specialists. I am 
not one of those.


Whenever I ask my (what must sound to the computer experts) stupid 
questions, I get in every of the many friendly communities the advice:
"If you don't know s**t about computers, you should not dare go near the 
damn thing (=Linux)."


My experience is, that Linux is making the transition VERY difficult for 
non-experts, ordinary mortal men, that "just"
want to work with the computer - without knowing about computer science, 
software design, programming techniques etc.


But I am probably boring you.
Sorry for that.
Thomas


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Jack Wallen]

Thank you for sharing that, Charles (I'm the author). Glad to know it 
resonated.


Jack

On 07/17/2015 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:

For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was interesting.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/

No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
Dragon Naturally Speaking.

There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
recognition software.

That can be a deal breaker.

But, for those of us not interested in grappling with W10, it's a conundrum.

Charles.



--
/Jack Wallen/
Award winning author of dark, twisty fiction
And tech journalist
Find out more on Get Jack'd 
TechRepublic  and Linux.com.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Linux alternative

[Gary Dale]

On 17/07/15 05:25 PM, charles meyer wrote:

For those on the list using or contemplating Linux, this was interesting.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/alternative-is-the-question-linux-is-the-answer/

No one really addressed software only written for Windows - e.g.
Dragon Naturally Speaking.

There doesn't seem to be a good open source or Linux-based voice
recognition software.

That can be a deal breaker.

But, for those of us not interested in grappling with W10, it's a conundrum.

Charles.



There's some pretty decent Linux voice recognition software out there, 
and lots of articles talking about the various options.


Frankly though, I'm confused as to why more software vendors don't 
compile to libwine and get software that runs on both (and Macs). They 
could also switch their database options to Sqlite or MariaDB and reduce 
their costs while getting a more reliable product.


It seems some people are just into bondage.  :)

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