Re: Hello to everyone

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/01/2011 06:56 PM, g wrote:
> seems that support.mozilla.com only has a page for firefox and solution
> is same for thunderbird as it is for firefox.

I'm not having the slightest trouble with FireFox, and the only two 
extensions I have on Thunderbird are ImportExport (I only used it once, 
to bring in my Eudora address book.) and ReminderFox.
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Re: Hello to everyone

[Hiisi]

On 2 December 2011 01:57, g  wrote:
>> I've been on other lists where it is courtesy to say hello when joining.
>
> nothing wrong with courtesy.
>

Damn! I forgot to introduce myself when joining a few years ago. I
think it's never late to correct that mistake.
Hello, list!
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Re: Gnome and Xfce don't play well together

[Frank Murphy]

On 02/12/11 03:09, David wrote:

>> But, you don't have Gnome installed.
>>
>
>
> I thought that was the point? Use Xfce and do not use Gnome.
>

 From the OP:
When Gnome is configured for a user and then the user tries to use Xfce"

Dual booting, between both.

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Re: Hello to everyone

[NOSpaze]

On Thu, 2011-12-01 at 09:55 -0500, LinuxIsOne wrote:
> Hello,
> 
I get it. "Linux is one", meaning that Debian=Fedora, and we name them
differently because or religious matters. Well thought and good one.
That means you have a high IQ. Hello and welcome to this list!

Going a little bit further, I realize that God needs to be unique in
order to be God. If God is one, LinuxIsOne=Linux is God. Nice hidden
message in your nickname. You are highly creative and religious. Welcome
to this list.

I also realize that your name is an affirmation instead of an adjective
or a meaningless word. Also comprehended that you do not use your name
in any part of your mail. That combination could mean you are changing.
Trying to liberate yourself from your present and feeling like a pupa
about to become a beautiful butterfly, which will soonly spread the
wings and touch the sky. Like that killer Buffalo Bill in the movie The
Silence of the Lambs... get it? hah? hah? get it? So I conclude you
could have some serial killer instincts. You could be a dangerous
person. So welcome to this list, I must ask you kindly to please don't
kill anyone.

Also realized that you have mistaken the Fedora List and the Debian
List. See? I can think as well or better as anyone! I'm trying to
improve my IQ, cause I envy people like you. Any way, as I said, If you
mistake this both list names could have 3 reasons: a) you made a typo
because you have big fingers b) You are using a shitty mail client like
Outlook or ccmail c) you use a web mail client. I will say the probable
answers are c), a) and less probably b) (if you are a serial killer with
strong fingers, God save us. I mean, Linux save us!). Trying to follow
the logical path, I'd say that if you use a web mail client, you use
google. That is confirmed by the meaningful fact that your email ends in
@gmail.com. And if you use gmail, I would say you have a computer with a
powerful processor. That means you are rich, and probably a relative of
any Wall Street stock broker. Tell him I hate all of them. But you are
not to blame. You are welcome to this list. 

I didn't analyzed the subject of your message, probably contains many
hidden misteries and deserves to be analyzed. Particularily, the use of
the abbreviation "Re:", coming from an interesting person like you... Im
sure it doesn't mean "Reply" as anyone else's or  "Reject", when I use
it. It MUST abbreviate something important.

> Hello to the Debian Community.

Hello and welcome. You will find more people of the fedora community
than the Debian community in this list. 

> Thanks.

For what? 

Sorry for making fun. A truly welcome.


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Re: Hello to everyone

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/01/2011 10:32 PM, LinuxIsOne wrote:
> However, this type of mails are not common (with 'hello') but just I
> told that to the community, that was however, something personal I
> felt I should.

As I think I wrote, I have no objection to that; it's a nice thing to 
do.  It's just that the subject line made me suspicious until I read it 
because it looked (to me) like the type of thing a spammer might do to 
get past spam filters and trick people into reading it.  No big deal.
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Re: Partition Management SOLVED I Think

[Mike Dwiggins]

On 12/1/2011 7:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 02.12.2011 03:01, schrieb Mark Panen:
>> On 02/12/2011 03:55, Mike Dwiggins wrote:
>>> Windows setup craps out with an
>>> error message saying the drive is corrupted.  The best I can figure is
>>> that it can't for some reason overwrite Fedora.
>>>
>>> Any clues on how to clear enough space for Windows or erase the disk so
>>> I can make it a dual boot in the normal fashion?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mike D.
>> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda with a live linux cd.
> there is no need to wait hours overwrite the whole disk
>
> "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1" overwrites the whole MBR
> and partition table as the "bs=512 count=!" can be used to clone it
> on a new disk for replace a software-raid-drive
>
> BTW: /dev/hda will not exist in recent kernels, it's /dev/sda
>
>
I kinda messed up the various suggestions and wound up having to 
reinstall a Fedora version so I picked i686 32 bit.  Scary as it sounds 
it recognized the built-in wireless equipment and That IS compatable 
with her work environment.  So if the 32 bit install does everything I 
need she stays pure Fedora.

I will put this thread on hold and report at a later date.

Stranger things have happened I guess?


Mike D.

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Re: GNOME2 support revisited

[Frank Murphy]

On 01/12/11 19:49, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.

I don't believe the Fedora maintainers, will do that.
Without more support from community devs,
who would do it as a side project.

>
> We support RHEL6 installations, and in addition to training time and 
> application
> (re)development costs, people complain that switching between GUI hurts
> productivity, creates typos, etc, etc. People spend time whining about it, 
> that
> definitely hurts productivity.
>

It depends on RH, and how many of their enterprise subscribers feel.
Make your feelings known to them?


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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[John Pilkington]

This looks as if it could be another instance of the problems with 
nvidia 290.10   Try reverting or going to the new 'long-lived' 275.36

Several examples on the atrpms-users list.

HTH

John P
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Re: GNOME2 support revisited

[Olav Vitters]

On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 02:49:30PM -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for 
> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be 
> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.

Suggest to ask Mint if they can put their extension on
https://extensions.gnome.org/. Then it is available to everyone who has
GNOME 3.2 or newer.

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Re: nvidia && f16 status ?

[Rich Boyce]

On 01/12/11 21:12, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:
> Hi! what is that compatibility status of nvidia drivers in fedora 16?
> Is it safe to install, update and use nvidia drivers of rpmfusion?

I've been using the akmod-nvidia package from rpmfusion and it works for me.

Rich
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Re: Fedora - time to blink

[Pedro Francisco]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Ian Malone  wrote:
-snip
> Just thought I'd chime in that my laptop is still happily using
> iwl3945 in F16 without noticeable connection problems. (Yes, it's
> faster if I connect it via ethernet, but I've always expected that.)
> Thanks if you're actually working on improving support for this
> chipset.

I'm just doing random tentative debugging :) For now, I've found out
that my iwl3945 SW Microcode crashes when you, having disable_hw_scan
= 0, do an "iw dev wlan0 scan passive" but not if you do an active
scan.

I've also found out that if I limit the frequencies to channel 48 (you
can check the frequencies you use by doing "iwlist f" ) no crash
occurs. I don't know if I'll be able to code something at the driver
--probably not -- but at least I can document the workaround to allow
hardware scanning to be enabled.

In my case I believe the software scan messes the card performance;
however after looking at some of the source code I believe there are
at least two "different" cards called iwl3945 or, if to believe on PCI
IDS differentiation, 4 or 5, so one card's issue may differ from
another's.
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Re: Printing at 600 dpi makes everything twice as big

[Tim Waugh]

On Thu, 2011-12-01 at 10:07 -0800, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
> Device: uri = usb://Brother/HL-1440%20series
> class = direct
> info = Brother HL-1440 series
> make-and-model = Brother HL-1440 series
> device-id = MFG:Brother;CMD:PCL4,PJL;MDL:HL-1440
> series;CLS:PRINTER;
> location = 

Well, everything seems to be in order, so I'm not sure what went wrong.
Here is the list of drivers for that ID, most preferred first:

$ /usr/share/system-config-printer/check-device-ids.py 'Brother HL-1440
series' 'MFG:Brother;CMD:PCL4,PJL;MDL:HL-1440 series;CLS:PRINTER;'
Installing relevant drivers using session service
Fetching driver list
└── Brother HL-1440 series (user-specified): MFG:Brother;MDL:HL-1440
series;CMD:PCL4,PJL;
├── foomatic:Brother-HL-1440-hl1250.ppd [foomatic]
├── gutenprint.5.2://brother-hl-1440/simple [gutenprint-cups]
├── gutenprint.5.2://brother-hl-1440/expert [gutenprint-cups]
├── foomatic:Brother-HL-1440-hpijs-pcl5e.ppd [foomatic]
├── foomatic:Brother-HL-1440-lj4dith.ppd [foomatic]
└── foomatic:Brother-HL-1440-ljet4.ppd [foomatic]

Of course, by all means report a bug about the gutenprint behaviour.  I
just wanted to try to find out why that driver was being used instead of
hl1250.

Tim.
*/



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Re: Hello to everyone

[LinuxIsOne]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:28 AM, Hiisi wrote:

> Damn! I forgot to introduce myself when joining a few years ago. I
> think it's never late to correct that mistake.
> Hello, list!

Hello Hiisi.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:36 AM, NOSpaze wrote:

> I get it. "Linux is one", meaning that Debian=Fedora,

Yes, Debian=Fedora=Gentoo=Slackware=Scientific
Linux=Ubuntu=PCLinuxOS=Linux Mint=Other, if we talk of Linux as only
**KERNEL**.

> and we name them differently because or religious matters. Well thought and 
> good one.

Okay.

> That means you have a high IQ. Hello and welcome to this list!

Thanks for the welcome.

> Going a little bit further, I realize that God needs to be unique in
> order to be God. If God is one, LinuxIsOne=Linux is God. Nice hidden
> message in your nickname.

I came to know from somewhere that after all Linux is really one -
it_is_just_kernel_which_is_same_in_all_linux_distributions, that's
why.

> You are highly creative and religious.

Yeah, I am creative but as a matter of curiosity, I would like to ask:
how you guess am I religious or not? Only from the name?

> Welcome to this list.

Thanks a lot. I reciprocate my best wishes.

> I also realize that your name is an affirmation instead of an adjective
> or a meaningless word. Also comprehended that you do not use your name
> in any part of your mail. That combination could mean you are changing.
> Trying to liberate yourself from your present and feeling like a pupa
> about to become a beautiful butterfly, which will soonly spread the
> wings and touch the sky. Like that killer Buffalo Bill in the movie The
> Silence of the Lambs... get it? hah? hah? get it?

Nice, yes if it could be possible, I would touch the sky.

> So I conclude you could have some serial killer instincts. You could be a 
> dangerous
> person.

While all your assumptions go right, but this is wrong. I am gentle
person, trying to learn linux in everyday work.

> So welcome to this list,

Thanks again.

> I must ask you kindly to please don't kill anyone.

;)-, how people assume this, is really amazing!

> Also realized that you have mistaken the Fedora List and the Debian
> List. See? I can think as well or better as anyone!

I told the reason in the previous mail.

> I'm trying to improve my IQ, cause I envy people like you. Any way, as I 
> said, If you
> mistake this both list names could have 3 reasons: a) you made a typo
> because you have big fingers b) You are using a shitty mail client like
> Outlook or ccmail c) you use a web mail client. I will say the probable
> answers are c), a) and less probably b) (if you are a serial killer with
> strong fingers, God save us. I mean, Linux save us!).

Okay, I guess I should again here write the reason for that: "On
distrowatch.org, I just read about some distro and the last one I read
was 'debian' and while came to Fedora, it was a mistake that I typed
'Debian' (since read it last at distrowatch). So generated typo."

Note that the typo was 'generate' and thus written but it was not
thought and written!, Got?

> Trying to follow the logical path, I'd say that if you use a web mail client, 
> you use
> google. That is confirmed by the meaningful fact that your email ends in
> @gmail.com. And if you use gmail, I would say you have a computer with a
> powerful processor.

Any email ends with some domain name? So what? And that domain is
available only on net? And what is meant by a powerful processor? Is
it having some extra power?? More generally people only have 32 bit or
64 bit processor which I have! So what about that extra power you are
talking about?

> That means you are rich,

You mean any poor person would never use internet or have a email
which ends in 'gmail.com'? And the same for a middle class family
fellow?

> and probably a relative of any Wall Street stock broker. Tell him I hate all 
> of them. But you are
> not to blame.

'probably', haha, what do you mean by having such probabilities which
really do not exist? Do you guess all things for everyone? But let me
tell you, guesses are 90% wrong!

> You are welcome to this list.

Again I would thank you.

> I didn't analyzed the subject of your message, probably contains many
> hidden misteries and deserves to be analyzed.

Are you a philosopher?

> Particularily, the use of the abbreviation "Re:", coming from an interesting 
> person like you... Im
> sure it doesn't mean "Reply" as anyone else's or  "Reject", when I use
> it. It MUST abbreviate something important.

So you are going to research for it? I am sure you will not...;)-

> Hello and welcome. You will find more people of the fedora community
> than the Debian community in this list.

:)-

> Sorry for making fun.

I forgive always.

> A truly welcome.

Thanks a lot dude.

Thanks
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Need alternative for beesu

[Vishnupradeep]

beesu is not working in fedora 16. I need an alternative program. Any other
?


Linux Blog: http://xtreme-linux.blogspot.com/
Fedora Blog: http://xtreme-fedora.blogspot.com/
My Blog: http://sharedonweb.blogspot.com/
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Re: nvidia && f16 status ?

[Boris Glawe]

Hi Adrian,

there are two options:
- Use Fedora's driver (is it still called nouveau?)
- Use rpmfusion's package with the original nvidia driver.

The first option *never* worked for me. I'm using a very old graphic
adapter, though (Geforce FX5200). Fedora's driver make it to start the
Gnome environment, but most widgets of the Desktop are totally distorted
and are not readable. The performance is also a mess. This driver makes my
computer as slow as a computer from 1995 (possibly because there's no
hardware support for basic 2D operations!?)

With nvidia's driver everything works find. Unfortunately nvidia's driver
is no longer available, as the FX5200 requires a legacy driver (173.xx)
which is no longer provided by rpmfusion. However rpmfusion's wishlist
already has an entry related with that: http://rpmfusion.org/Wishlist

If you have a current nvidia adapter the rpmfusion solution should work
properly.

greets
Boris

01/12/11 22:12:32, Adrian Sevcenco :
Hi! what is that compatibility status of
nvidia drivers in fedora 16?
Is it safe to install, update and use nvidia drivers of rpmfusion?
Thanks!
Adrian


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Re: Re: Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[fernando]

Hi there,


>> Given the relatively low cost of
>> the hardware these days, it's much more realistic to simply buy both
>
>Don´t extrapolate your income levels to the rest of the world. And
>notice the OP was from Brazil.
>
>Hardware costs, when duties and taxes are factored, can be 2x as much,
>and incomes are often 1/3 to 1/4th.

While this is true, Why spend on a hardware without a reasonable expectancy 
that it'll work the way I want?

I see sometimes (even here in Brazil) people from TI have a "collection" of 
eletronic gadgets which serves no actual purpose, just to show friends ;-)

If there's a good chance the W500 can work as a pure tablet using Gnome 3, I'll 
buy one. If not, or if this may take a lot of time, I just wait because some 
months in the future there'll be a better similar device. If I had the 
expertise or free time to actually help make it work, then I'd by now.

Until now it doesn't look like I can install Fedora and use it on a pure 
tablet. So I keep my current netbook, which is yet not old.


[]s, Fernando Lozano


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Re: nvidia && f16 status ?

[Ian Malone]

> 01/12/11 22:12:32, Adrian Sevcenco :
>
>> Hi! what is that compatibility status of nvidia drivers in fedora 16?
>> Is it safe to install, update and use nvidia drivers of rpmfusion?
>> Thanks!


On 2 December 2011 11:27, Boris Glawe  wrote:
> Hi Adrian,
>
> there are two options:
> - Use Fedora's driver (is it still called nouveau?)
> - Use rpmfusion's package with the original nvidia driver.
>
> The first option *never* worked for me. I'm using a very old graphic
> adapter, though (Geforce FX5200). Fedora's driver make it to start the Gnome
> environment, but most widgets of the Desktop are totally distorted and are
> not readable. The performance is also a mess. This driver makes my computer
> as slow as a computer from 1995 (possibly because there's no hardware
> support for basic 2D operations!?)
>
> With nvidia's driver everything works find. Unfortunately nvidia's driver is
> no longer available, as the FX5200 requires a legacy driver (173.xx) which
> is no longer provided by rpmfusion. However rpmfusion's wishlist already has
> an entry related with that: http://rpmfusion.org/Wishlist
>
> If you have a current nvidia adapter the rpmfusion solution should work
> properly.
>

nvidia is working for me after an upgrade F15 -> F16. I did have to do
the dracut step again to create a new initrd and also force reinstall
of the nvidia driver via yum to get the glx libs working correctly.

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Re: Need alternative for beesu

[Jatin K]

On Friday 02 December 2011 04:24 PM, Vishnupradeep wrote:
> beesu is not working in fedora 16.
not working means ??  any error message .?

> I need an alternative program. Any other ?

how about sudo ???  or  simply su -l

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www.counter.li.org
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Re: Need alternative for beesu

[Ed Greshko]

> beesu is not working in fedora 16. I need an alternative program. Any 
> other ?
>

Define "is not working".

Works fine here on F16 i386.

What are you doing?  How are you doing it?  What happens?


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Re: Re: Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 08:39,   wrote:
> Until now it doesn't look like I can install Fedora and use it on a pure 
> tablet. So I keep my current netbook, which is yet not old.

What makes you conclude that it won´t work?.

It seems to me you didn´t google enough:

http://www.entirelyunlike.net/?tag=iconia-tab-w500

He´s got it working, including touch, explains how, and with screen rotation.

FC

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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[Ian Malone]

On 2 December 2011 08:46, John Pilkington  wrote:
> This looks as if it could be another instance of the problems with
> nvidia 290.10   Try reverting or going to the new 'long-lived' 275.36
>
> Several examples on the atrpms-users list.
>

Are you sure? From the lsmod and Xorg it looks like nouveau is being
loaded, and nvidia is not.

If Lawrence has network access in text only mode I would suggest as root:
yum reinstall xorg-x11-drv-nvidia nvidia-settings akmod-nvidia
kmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs
nvidia-xconfig

(All one line)

If that doesn't help or there's no net access then (again as root),
first line is moving the file to a backup with today's date:
mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
nvidia-config-display
echo blacklist nouveau >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
Let us know how you get on.

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The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Ed Greshko]

I'm a long time KDE user and survivor of the move to KDE 4. 

Thought some of you may be interested in the view point of Linus

"Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension, gnome-3.2 is
starting to look almost usable.

Now I just hope those things become part of the standard gnome shell
setup and made available in the regular "system config" thing rather
than hidden off. Sure, make them default to off if you want that "clean
default", but make them easy to find and part of the standard install.

Or would that be too close to "Ok, we admit we were wong" and thus not
politically acceptable?"


https://plus.google.com/u/0/102150693225130002912/posts/WTLyn7dqYoR

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Re: F16 unusable with intel 945GME video

[Zoltan Boszormenyi]

2011-12-01 22:29 keltezéssel, Konstantin Svist írta:
> Samsung n130 netbook with Intel 945GME chipset.
>
> Fedora 14 worked well enough, but I decided to upgrade. Upgrade got 
> messed up, so I reinstalled from F16 Live CD.
> With modeset (default), plymouth graphical works but the login screen 
> never appears. With nomodeset, native resolution can't be used.
>

I have a similar problem.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=757812

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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[Lawrence Graves]

On 12/02/2011 05:04 AM, Ian Malone wrote:

On 2 December 2011 08:46, John Pilkington  wrote:

This looks as if it could be another instance of the problems with
nvidia 290.10   Try reverting or going to the new 'long-lived' 275.36

Several examples on the atrpms-users list.


Are you sure? From the lsmod and Xorg it looks like nouveau is being
loaded, and nvidia is not.

If Lawrence has network access in text only mode I would suggest as root:
yum reinstall xorg-x11-drv-nvidia nvidia-settings akmod-nvidia
kmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs
nvidia-xconfig

(All one line)

If that doesn't help or there's no net access then (again as root),
first line is moving the file to a backup with today's date:
mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
nvidia-config-display
echo blacklist nouveau>>  /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
Let us know how you get on.

I tried all that you instructed to no avail. When I tried reinstalling 
the nvidia drivers, I received the message that there were no mirrors. 
When I tried the mv, it came back and said nvidia-config-display is not 
a directory.
I agree with the first statement made, the nouveau drivers are being 
loaded and not the nvidia drivers for some strange reason. I have never 
had this problem before. I bought the lastest nvidia card with the 
express purpose of not facing these problems. Oh well:-) I still express 
my thanks for your hard work. I guess it is back to the drawing board. I 
wish I could send my laptop to you. I believe if you could see what it 
is doing with your own eyes and not the eyes of a novice, it would be an 
easy fix.

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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[John Pilkington]

On 02/12/11 12:04, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 2 December 2011 08:46, John Pilkington  wrote:
>> This looks as if it could be another instance of the problems with
>> nvidia 290.10   Try reverting or going to the new 'long-lived' 275.36
>>
>> Several examples on the atrpms-users list.
>>
No, I'm not sure at all:  I just saw the 290.10 packages and knew that 
several people, including me, had reported segfaults etc that have gone 
away after one of the options I suggested.

>
> Are you sure? From the lsmod and Xorg it looks like nouveau is being
> loaded, and nvidia is not.
>
> If Lawrence has network access in text only mode I would suggest as root:
> yum reinstall xorg-x11-drv-nvidia nvidia-settings akmod-nvidia
> kmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs
> nvidia-xconfig
>
> (All one line)
>
> If that doesn't help or there's no net access then (again as root),
> first line is moving the file to a backup with today's date:
> mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
> nvidia-config-display
> echo blacklist nouveau>>  /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
> dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)
>
> This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
> file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
> not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
> want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
> Let us know how you get on.
>

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Re: SELinux: Proof of tty

[Daniel J Walsh]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/02/2011 01:59 AM, Jitesh Shah wrote:
>> I
>>> 
>> would probably hack up sudo to run a shell that checks to make
>> sure the user is local, I guess on a /dev/tty rather then on a
>> pseudo tty.
> 
> aah I see. Makes sense. Thanks!
> 
> Jitesh
Also I believe consolekit can tell you whether a user is at the
console or on a remote machine, I believe.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[fernando]

Hi,

>> Until now it doesn't look like I can install Fedora and use it on a pure 
>> tablet. So I keep my current netbook, which is yet not old.
>
>What makes you conclude that it won´t work?.
>
>It seems to me you didn´t google enough:
>
>http://www.entirelyunlike.net/?tag=iconia-tab-w500
>
>He´s got it working, including touch, explains how, and with screen rotation.


I wan't clear. I expect it to work, but as as it would on any notebook / 
netbook. The hardware is supported, that's all. So far it looks I can use the 
touch screen as a pointer device adn rotate the screen. Not a big deal. That 
means just using the tablet as a regular PC, with a different kind of mouse. It 
does not tell anything whether it will feel like a real tablet, with touch 
optimized UI and apps. That's what I mean by a "pure tablet".

I already had some touch-enabled PCs, like the HP tx2000, and they weren't 
confortable doing anything by touch. Sure current tablets have better touch 
screens, and the Gnome Shell was designed with some touch features in mind, but 
this alone is not enough.

The big question is: has anyone tried to use the W550 or a similar device as a 
real tablet, not as a netbook, using only touch to browse the web, read 
drm-free ebooks, watch vides, listen music, and playing games?

And how the touchscreen / virtual keybard are (or aren't) usefull for 
non-tablet applications like gimp and libre office?

So far no one answered those questions, not even a developer working on those 
features, so I assume there are none. F16 remains simply a PC operating system, 
not something you'd actually use on a tablet. :-(


[]s, Fernando Lozano



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Partitioning in allocated space: How to?

[LinuxIsOne]

Hello,

The computer has Ubuntu LTS installed in some of its memory, it is like:

--

Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0001fe0c

  Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *   1186114940160   83  Linux
/dev/sda218612371 4101120   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda32371480319530752   83  Linux

--

Out of the 250 GB hard disk, it is using like :

/dev/sda1 = 15 GB (/)   [Primary partition]
/dev/sda2 = 4.2 GB (swap )   [Primary partition]
/dev/sda3 = 20 GB (/home)   [Primary partition]

Unallocated space = 211 GB

So in extended I have to install Fedora 15 (211 GB), so how should
I install it in extended and how do I partition it such that it comes
as an option to be booted from Ubuntu menu? Is it possible? But if it
doesn't mess up the things

Thanks
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Re: Hello to everyone

[g]

On 12/02/2011 07:28 AM, Hiisi wrote:
> On 2 December 2011 01:57, g  wrote:
>>> I've been on other lists where it is courtesy to say hello when joining.
>> nothing wrong with courtesy.
>>
> 
> Damn! I forgot to introduce myself when joining a few years ago. I
> think it's never late to correct that mistake.
> Hello, list!
---

a mistake you never want to be 'too late' about is using a condom. 8-D

-- 

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

*please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*


in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/




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Re: Partitioning in allocated space: How to?

[fedora]

Apparently you have a running Linux "in some of its memory", right?

so, boot it, call
fdisk /dev/sda
and add an extended partition with the needed sub-partitions.

then install Linux on those.

suomi

On 2011-12-02 14:01, LinuxIsOne wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The computer has Ubuntu LTS installed in some of its memory, it is like:
>
> --
>
> Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> Disk identifier: 0x0001fe0c
>
>Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sda1   *   1186114940160   83  Linux
> /dev/sda218612371 4101120   82  Linux swap / Solaris
> /dev/sda32371480319530752   83  Linux
>
> --
>
> Out of the 250 GB hard disk, it is using like :
>
> /dev/sda1 = 15 GB (/)   [Primary partition]
> /dev/sda2 = 4.2 GB (swap )   [Primary partition]
> /dev/sda3 = 20 GB (/home)   [Primary partition]
>
> Unallocated space = 211 GB
>
> So in extended I have to install Fedora 15 (211 GB), so how should
> I install it in extended and how do I partition it such that it comes
> as an option to be booted from Ubuntu menu? Is it possible? But if it
> doesn't mess up the things
>
> Thanks
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Re: Partitioning in allocated space: How to?

[LinuxIsOne]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:16 AM, fedora  wrote:

> Apparently you have a running Linux "in some of its memory", right?

Yes.

> so, boot it, call
> fdisk /dev/sda
> and add an extended partition with the needed sub-partitions.

> then install Linux on those.

Okay I try that.

Thanks.
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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[Lawrence Graves]

On 12/02/2011 05:54 AM, John Pilkington wrote:

On 02/12/11 12:04, Ian Malone wrote:

On 2 December 2011 08:46, John Pilkington   wrote:

This looks as if it could be another instance of the problems with
nvidia 290.10   Try reverting or going to the new 'long-lived' 275.36

Several examples on the atrpms-users list.


No, I'm not sure at all:  I just saw the 290.10 packages and knew that
several people, including me, had reported segfaults etc that have gone
away after one of the options I suggested.


Are you sure? From the lsmod and Xorg it looks like nouveau is being
loaded, and nvidia is not.

If Lawrence has network access in text only mode I would suggest as root:
yum reinstall xorg-x11-drv-nvidia nvidia-settings akmod-nvidia
kmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs
nvidia-xconfig

(All one line)

If that doesn't help or there's no net access then (again as root),
first line is moving the file to a backup with today's date:
mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
nvidia-config-display
echo blacklist nouveau>>   /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
Let us know how you get on.


I am not sure as to how to do that.


--
Lawrence Graves All things are workable but don't all things work.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:36,   wrote:
> I wan't clear. I expect it to work, but as as it would on any notebook / 
> netbook. The hardware is supported, that's all. So far it looks I can use the 
> touch screen as a pointer device adn rotate the screen. Not a big deal. That 
> means just using the tablet as a regular PC, with a different kind of mouse. 
> It does not tell anything whether it will feel like a real tablet,

So you´re not asking a question about Fedora but a question about
Gnome on touch screen devices..

It seems to me you might want to give MeeGo a try.
The WeTab tablet (from a German company, I believe) shipped with MeeGo
and was an x86 system.

FC
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:08, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> It seems to me you might want to give MeeGo a try.
> The WeTab tablet (from a German company, I believe) shipped with MeeGo
> and was an x86 system.

Here, $400. But Intel not AMD based (too bad :-/)

http://ho.io/wetab

FC

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Re: Midnight commander: ALT+ENTER does no longer work

[Michael Schwendt]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 18:27:05 +0100, HD (Heinz) wrote:

> On 01.12.2011, suvayu ali wrote: 
> 
> > Its a faulty update. Downgrade your gtk2.
> > 
> 
> Thanks a lot for clarifying this!
> Unfortunately, a downgrade is not possible on my system:
> 
> [root@wildsau ~]# yum --skip-broken downgrade gtk2
> Loaded plugins: langpacks, presto, refresh-packagekit
> Setting up Downgrade Process
> Resolving Dependencies
> --> Running transaction check
> ---> Package gtk2.i686 0:2.24.7-2.fc16 will be a downgrade
> ---> Package gtk2.x86_64 0:2.24.7-2.fc16 will be a downgrade
> ---> Package gtk2.i686 0:2.24.8-2.fc16 will be erased
> ---> Package gtk2.x86_64 0:2.24.8-2.fc16 will be erased
> 
> Packages skipped because of dependency problems:
> gtk2-2.24.7-2.fc16.i686 from fedora
> gtk2-2.24.7-2.fc16.x86_64 from fedora

Is that the full output or truncated?
Try
   
yum downgrade gtk2\*

to cover also subpackages.
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Re: Partition Management

[Lamar Owen]

On Thursday, December 01, 2011 09:31:25 PM Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 02.12.2011 02:55, schrieb Mike Dwiggins:
> > My wife's machine is a full up FC14 x86_64 and I now have the joy of 
> > trying to put windows XP on due to constraints at her work.

> why dual boot this days?

'Constraints at work' could mean a lot of different things; I've seen a few 
enterprise applications that don't work well in a VM for various reasons 
(anything that needs accurate timing works better on physical hardware, for 
instance, as does anything that needs access to certain physical hardware 
devices like hardware dongles (iLok, for instance, works better on physical 
hardware, and special interface cards, PCI and/or PC Card or Cardbus (or 
ExpressCard) sometime cannot be made work properly in a VM environment).

More than likely it's the boss simply saying 'you will run Windows XP, period.'

Most people either cannot afford to take a stand on principle (because there 
are bosses who will fire you if you don't do it their way, regardless) or would 
rather just fit in.  Most people do not have OS freedom at work.  Be glad if 
you do.
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Re: Re: Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[fernando]

Hi,

>> My question is, on the tablet side, anyone has tried Fedora on the
>> Iconia, and found it nice to use with touch-screen only?
>
>Good question - not me
>
>I think that a tablet device and a tablet computer scratch 2 different
>itches and wanting to have that scratched by the same hardware device is
>probably impractical, if nothing else. Given the relatively low cost of
>the hardware these days, it's much more realistic to simply buy both but
>of course there's always some people who just want to do things just to
>see if they can.

If I can carry only one device it's much better. If not, I'll end up carryng a 
netbook and nothing else.


[]s, Fernando Lozano


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Re: Partition Management SOLVED I Think

[Lamar Owen]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 03:41:50 AM Mike Dwiggins wrote:
> Scary as it sounds [the i686 32-bit version]
> recognized the built-in wireless equipment and That IS compatable 
> with her work environment.  

Ah, a wireless network requirement.  That's another one to add to the list of 
things that can force an OS requirement, since Fedora (and other Linux) support 
for some wireless cards is spotty at best.
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Re: nvidia && f16 status ?

[Adrian Sevcenco]

On 12/02/11 10:57, Rich Boyce wrote:

On 01/12/11 21:12, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:

Hi! what is that compatibility status of nvidia drivers in fedora 16?
Is it safe to install, update and use nvidia drivers of rpmfusion?


I've been using the akmod-nvidia package from rpmfusion and it works for
me.

great! ... was that glibc problem solved?
thanks!
Adrian



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Re: Gnome and Xfce don't play well together

[Aaron Konstam]

On Wed, 2011-11-30 at 17:16 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:49:19 -0600
> Aaron Konstam  wrote:
> 
> > This happened in F15 and I thought I was just ignorant.
> > Now that it has happened again in F16 I realize it is a software
> > problem.
> > When Gnome is configured for a user and then the user tries to use
> > Xfce they find that the Xfce is corrupted in various ways. Namely:
> 
> What do you mean by 'gnome is configured for a user' ? 
> They logged in with gnome? something else?
> 
Evidently the  problem occurs (metacity substituted for xfwm4) when a
gnome user configures a gnome session. I am not sure what configuration
is needed, In my case I added icons to the upper panel, for example.
When I logged in to Xfce it was screwed up.

Fixing it involved running: xfwm4 --replace &

Another user on my system that had not configured Gnome in any way did
not have the problem.

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Re: nvidia && f16 status ?

[Rich Boyce]

On 02/12/11 16:04, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:
> On 12/02/11 10:57, Rich Boyce wrote:
>> On 01/12/11 21:12, Adrian Sevcenco wrote:
>>> Hi! what is that compatibility status of nvidia drivers in fedora 16?
>>> Is it safe to install, update and use nvidia drivers of rpmfusion?
>>
>> I've been using the akmod-nvidia package from rpmfusion and it works for
>> me.
> great! ... was that glibc problem solved?

I didn't encounter a glibc problem, just installed the packages and they 
worked. This was about a week after F16 was released. I'm using x86_64.

Rich
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Re: Gnome and Xfce don't play well together

[Aaron Konstam]

On Thu, 2011-12-01 at 22:09 -0500, David wrote:
> On 12/1/2011 3:38 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > On 01/12/11 18:33, David wrote:
> > 
> 
>  Make sure in Xfce: Settings>  Session&  Startup>  Advanced
>  "Gnome services" is unchecked.
> >>> Gnome services is unchecked
> >>
> >>
> >> I use the Xfce 'spin' and Gnome does not interfere with it.
> >>
> > 
> > But, you don't have Gnome installed.
> > 
> 
> 
> I thought that was the point? Use Xfce and do not use Gnome.
> 
> -- 
> 
>   David

You can't have Gnome interfere is if no Gnome is installed and that is
your situation.
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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[Ian Malone]

On 2 December 2011 13:48, Lawrence Graves  wrote:

>> On 12/02/2011 05:04 AM, Ian Malone wrote:

>>> If Lawrence has network access in text only mode I would suggest as root:
>>> yum reinstall xorg-x11-drv-nvidia nvidia-settings akmod-nvidia
>>> kmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs
>>> nvidia-xconfig

>> If that doesn't help or there's no net access then (again as root),
>> first line is moving the file to a backup with today's date:

>> This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
>> file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
>> not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
>> want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
>> Let us know how you get on.

> I tried all that you instructed to no avail. When I tried reinstalling the
> nvidia drivers, I received the message that there were no mirrors.

Sounds like you don't have a net connection up. If you had it
configured previously you /might/ be able to get it up by doing:
systemctl start NetworkManager.service

> When I
> tried the mv, it came back and said nvidia-config-display is not a
> directory.

Sorry, those should all be separate lines, I've put a $ to indicate
each one below (also it should have been nvidia-xconfig, not
nvidia-display-config, again fixed this below):

$ mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
$ nvidia-xconfig
$ echo blacklist nouveau >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
$ dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

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Re: Hello to everyone

[g]

On 12/02/2011 07:22 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 12/01/2011 06:10 PM, g wrote:
>> if you are not on a mozilla email tsl or newsgroup, let me know and i will
>> post for information on how to correct.
>>
>> are you using 'mnenhy' in firefox also?
> 
> I'm not on any mozilla mailing lists
---

not a problem. i already posted to list for confirmation of solution.

replies;

}> Usual method is use Config Edit to activate about:config.
}> Filter for:
}> general.useragent.extra.thunderbird
}> Value for TB8 should be: Thunderbird/8.0
[see below for mozilla page with full instructions.]

double click and manually change to correct release.


}> FYI: mnenhy's full name is Mail News Enhancement and was a Mozilla Suite
}> extension predating the Thunderbird project.

even tho it was originally for email, it also works in firefox. problem
with using in firefox is that it will make your browser look too old to
handle some web sites, banks, etc, and you can/will get a rejection for
an out of date browser.


> and I have no idea what mnenhy is.
---

it is an add-on that anyone can add to thunderbird and/or firefox.

  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mnenhy/?src=search
  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=mnenhy&appver=&platform=

current v/r is mnenhy-0.8.4-sm+tb+fx.xpi and same is used in both.


>   Please let me know how to correct this.
---

i did in last post. see this page;

  Websites or add-ons incorrectly report incompatible browser \
   | Troubleshooting | Firefox Help

https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites%20or%20add-ons%20incorrectly%20report%20incompatible%20browser


i do not use mnenhy with either thunderbird or firefox. for some, it
has use, but is mostly used by oos users because it allows them to do
'magical' and 'wonderful' mods to thunderbird or firefox. then again
if they knew anything, they would be using linux and not oos. 8-D


hth.
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.

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Re: Tablet Acer Iconia W500, anyone?

[Alan Cox]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 11:12:27 -0300
Fernando Cassia  wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:08, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> > It seems to me you might want to give MeeGo a try.
> > The WeTab tablet (from a German company, I believe) shipped with MeeGo
> > and was an x86 system.

Its from a German compay called Neofonie

http://wetab.mobi/shop/

You probably want

http://wetab.mobi/en/developers/

I've never played with one so I've no idea how it rates

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Re: Partition Management

[mike cloaked]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Genes MailLists  wrote:
> On 12/01/2011 09:31 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

>> why dual boot this days?
>>
>> "windows XP on due to constraints at her work" sounds not
>> like playing 3d games and all other things are running fine
>> in a virtual machine, most time faster than a physical
>> winxp, without driver troubles and you can take the winxp
>> to the next computer as any other data-file

>
>  Yep - good point - I am running it in a VM (I use Oracle's virtualbox)
> works very well indeed -
>
>   and it boots a lot faster - and you get all the advantages of a VM
> such as disk snapshots, easy ability to copy the entire VM and boot on
> different machine etc ..

I'll second that - and in addition it is very easy indeed to make
backups of the VM since they are simply files in the linux system - so
even if the disk dies restoring from backup is simple, and needs no
re-install of XPfrom scratch with its attendant followup preparation
pain - and also if you install XP to a physical machine there is the
inevitable pain of installing all the drivers from scratch, as well as
running the incessant series of Windows update->boot->more Windows
update->boot until you are really irritated with having to baby sit
the whole process in order to click OK every 20 minutes before it will
proceed - once you have the VM set up and up to date then keeping a
backup or restoring Windows is really easy and a lot less painful than
dual booting.

I don't maintain any more Fedora/Windows dual boot machines once I got
used to running XP in a VM (I guess you can do the same for Fedora
with Windows 8 as well)

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Re: F16 unusable with intel 945GME video

[Konstantin Svist]

On 12/02/2011 04:51 AM, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote:
> 2011-12-01 22:29 keltezéssel, Konstantin Svist írta:
>> Samsung n130 netbook with Intel 945GME chipset.
>>
>> Fedora 14 worked well enough, but I decided to upgrade. Upgrade got
>> messed up, so I reinstalled from F16 Live CD.
>> With modeset (default), plymouth graphical works but the login screen
>> never appears. With nomodeset, native resolution can't be used.
>>
> I have a similar problem.
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=757812

Worst part is that nobody even bothers to answer/triage the bugs we filed

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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[Ian Malone]

On 02/12/11 12:04, Ian Malone wrote:

> This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
> file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
> not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
> want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
> Let us know how you get on.

On 2 December 2011 14:06, Lawrence Graves  wrote:

>
> I am not sure as to how to do that.
>

It's just this series of 4 commands, run as root. (Don't enter the #
signs, they're just to mark the start of each line):

# mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
# nvidia-xconfig
# echo blacklist nouveau >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
# dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

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Re: Partition Management

[les]

On Thu, 2011-12-01 at 18:55 -0700, Mike Dwiggins wrote:
> My wife's machine is a full up FC14 x86_64 and I now have the joy of 
> trying to put windows XP on due to constraints at her work.
> 
> I figured no problem, Install windows from scratch and constrain the 
> partition size and reinstall Fedora.  Windows setup craps out with an 
> error message saying the drive is corrupted.  The best I can figure is 
> that it can't for some reason overwrite Fedora.
> 
> Any clues on how to clear enough space for Windows or erase the disk so 
> I can make it a dual boot in the normal fashion?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike D.
If it is not a laptop, you can put in a second disk with Windows on it.
Then you can either dual boot or use a VM to have access to both.

If a laptop, you could move the whole existing linux to an outboard
drive, and dual boot by simply rebooting with the boot parameters set to
boot external if its available.

Otherwise you will need to repartition the disk.  If I were doing that,
I would make a complete backup first just for insurance.

Windows 7 is a nuisance because a lot of my older development apps would
not run.  I ended up going all the way to ultimate to get most things
back I needed.

Regards,
Les H


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Re: Midnight commander: ALT+ENTER does no longer work

[Heinz Diehl]

On 02.12.2011, Michael Schwendt wrote: 

> Is that the full output or truncated?

It's the full output.

> Try
>
> yum downgrade gtk2\*
> 
> to cover also subpackages.

I ignored the dependencies, downloaded the according .rpm and
downgraded by force now...

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Boot Error- em1: link becomes ready

[Swapnil Bhartiya]

Hi,

I am new to Fedora, been using Ubuntu for 5 years and now want to switch 
for good. On my desktop I am facing this issue, everything was fine 
after installation but after second reboot I can't boot screen is stuck 
at this message: em1: link becomes ready

Please suggest. I am running Fedora 16.

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Re: Bug 648732 – Intel wireless broken on 11n for many users

[Lawrence Graves]

On 12/02/2011 11:18 AM, Ian Malone wrote:

On 02/12/11 12:04, Ian Malone wrote:


This (in order), moves your current Xorg configuration to a backup
file, uses nvidia-config-display to create a new one, tells the system
not to use the nouveau driver (you'll need to undo this if you ever
want to use nouveau) and creates a new initrd with nouveau excluded.
Let us know how you get on.

On 2 December 2011 14:06, Lawrence Graves  wrote:


I am not sure as to how to do that.


It's just this series of 4 commands, run as root. (Don't enter the #
signs, they're just to mark the start of each line):

# mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup-20111202
# nvidia-xconfig
# echo blacklist nouveau>>  /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
# dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

I am very sorry but it didn't work. I got the same read out results. I 
uninstall the nvidia drivers and reinstalled them and tried it a second 
time with no results.

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FC16 update problems - more info

[Elliott Chapin]

I hope this helps break up my logjam. Following is amended output from
yum update and yum update --skip-broken:

Skipped (dependency problems):
 firefoxx86_64
8.0-3.fc16  updates
   18 M
 xulrunner  x86_64
8.0-1.fc16  updates
   10 M
 xulrunner-develx86_64
8.0-1.fc16  updates
  3.8 M



ERROR with transaction check vs depsolve:
kernel-uname-r = 2.6.40.3-0.fc15.x86_64 is needed by (installed)
kmod-wl-2.6.40.3-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.7.x86_64
kernel-uname-r = 2.6.40.4-5.fc15.x86_64 is needed by (installed)
kmod-wl-2.6.40.4-5.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.8.x86_64
kernel-uname-r = 2.6.40.6-0.fc15.x86_64 is needed by (installed)
kmod-wl-2.6.40.6-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.9.x86_64
Please report this error in http://yum.baseurl.org/report
** Found 9 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), 'yum check' output follows:
kmod-wl-2.6.40.3-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.7.x86_64 has missing
requires of kernel-uname-r = ('0', '2.6.40.3', '0.fc15.x86_64')
kmod-wl-2.6.40.4-5.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.8.x86_64 has missing
requires of kernel-uname-r = ('0', '2.6.40.4', '5.fc15.x86_64')
kmod-wl-2.6.40.6-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.9.x86_64 has missing
requires of kernel-uname-r = ('0', '2.6.40.6', '0.fc15.x86_64')
perl-Gtk2-MozEmbed-0.09-1.fc15.5.x86_64 has missing requires of
perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.12.4)
qyoto-4.6.5-1.fc15.x86_64 has missing requires of
libqscintilla2.so.5()(64bit)
xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
libavcodec.so.52()(64bit)
xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
libavformat.so.52()(64bit)
xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
libavutil.so.50()(64bit)
xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
libswscale.so.0()(64bit)

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Fedora 16 preupgrade problem?

[Michael D. Setzer II]

I have a test machine with Fedora 15 x86_64 and ran preupgrade 
and all seemed to go fine. But after reboot, it comes up with the 
grub menu and option to upgrade to 16, but then selecting it just 
results in a blinking cursor in the upper left. No messages on 
screen, no disk activity. 

Currently downloading DVD image, but that saying it will take 5 
hours more.


+--+
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  http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
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Processing time:  32 years, 290 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes
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Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Chris Bredesen]

Why does GNOME warn me that numlock is on?  I get warning for capslock; 
you can unknowingly botch a password.  But numlock?  Are there keyboards 
for which the non-numeric keys on the d-pad can type valid characters?

Seems odd but I don't want to file a bug until I understand why it is 
the way it is; I'm probably missing something.

-CB
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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Reindl Harald]

remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade
and make sure that "package-cleanup --problems" gives no
warning

Am 03.12.2011 00:24, schrieb Elliott Chapin:
> I hope this helps break up my logjam. Following is amended output from
> yum update and yum update --skip-broken:
> 
> Skipped (dependency problems):
>  firefoxx86_64
> 8.0-3.fc16  updates
>18 M
>  xulrunner  x86_64
> 8.0-1.fc16  updates
>10 M
>  xulrunner-develx86_64
> 8.0-1.fc16  updates
>   3.8 M
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR with transaction check vs depsolve:
> kernel-uname-r = 2.6.40.3-0.fc15.x86_64 is needed by (installed)
> kmod-wl-2.6.40.3-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.7.x86_64
> kernel-uname-r = 2.6.40.4-5.fc15.x86_64 is needed by (installed)
> kmod-wl-2.6.40.4-5.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.8.x86_64
> kernel-uname-r = 2.6.40.6-0.fc15.x86_64 is needed by (installed)
> kmod-wl-2.6.40.6-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.9.x86_64
> Please report this error in http://yum.baseurl.org/report
> ** Found 9 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), 'yum check' output follows:
> kmod-wl-2.6.40.3-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.7.x86_64 has missing
> requires of kernel-uname-r = ('0', '2.6.40.3', '0.fc15.x86_64')
> kmod-wl-2.6.40.4-5.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.8.x86_64 has missing
> requires of kernel-uname-r = ('0', '2.6.40.4', '5.fc15.x86_64')
> kmod-wl-2.6.40.6-0.fc15.x86_64-5.60.48.36-2.fc15.9.x86_64 has missing
> requires of kernel-uname-r = ('0', '2.6.40.6', '0.fc15.x86_64')
> perl-Gtk2-MozEmbed-0.09-1.fc15.5.x86_64 has missing requires of
> perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.12.4)
> qyoto-4.6.5-1.fc15.x86_64 has missing requires of
> libqscintilla2.so.5()(64bit)
> xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
> libavcodec.so.52()(64bit)
> xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
> libavformat.so.52()(64bit)
> xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
> libavutil.so.50()(64bit)
> xdtv-2.4.1-0.6cvs15.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
> libswscale.so.0()(64bit)
> 

-- 

Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
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Re: Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/02/2011 12:18 PM, Chris Bredesen wrote:
> Are there keyboards
> for which the non-numeric keys on the d-pad can type valid characters?

On every non-laptop keyboard I've ever used, those keys are arrow keys, 
and the corner keys have special uses.  Try turning off numlock when 
you're editing a document and see what they do; they're quite useful, in 
fact, and I prefer to work with numlock off whenever possible.
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Re: Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Tim]

On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 16:02 -0800, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On every non-laptop keyboard I've ever used, those keys are arrow
> keys, and the corner keys have special uses.  Try turning off numlock
> when you're editing a document and see what they do; they're quite
> useful, in fact, and I prefer to work with numlock off whenever
> possible.

I've never seen the point of that.  On every non-laptop keyboard that
I've seen (*), those special keys actually have dedicated keys right
next to the numberpad (the page up and down, print screen, etc., keys).
So turning off numlock gives you a second set of the same thing, right
next to them.  And you lose the ability to quickly enter numbers.

* Keyboards like these ones, numlock is pointless:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Qwerty.svg

Reminds me of another pet keyboard peeve; I wish they'd put the damn
caps lock and num lock lights next to the damn buttons, or in them, not
on the opposite side of the board, and obscured by burying it in the
cabinet with a teeny tiny hole to shine through, and labelled with weird
legends (usually raised black plastic on a black plastic background).
The sodding things are designed by Bastards Incorporated.

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Re: Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/02/2011 04:18 PM, Tim wrote:
> I've never seen the point of that.  On every non-laptop keyboard that
> I've seen (*), those special keys actually have dedicated keys right
> next to the numberpad (the page up and down, print screen, etc., keys).
> So turning off numlock gives you a second set of the same thing, right
> next to them.  And you lose the ability to quickly enter numbers.

I very rarely need to enter more than a few numbers at a time, and 
mostly use the ones at the top of the keyboard.  I'd be just as happy 
having only the special keys on the keypad, as I almost never have a use 
for the other set.  It's a matter of how and when I learned to use the 
keyboard, and a personal preference backed by several decades of habit. 
  The main reason I mentioned it in the first place was to show that 
there are actually people who like to work with numlock off, because if 
nobody ever did, there'd be no point in having it at all.
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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Elliott Chapin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade

Specifically?

> and make sure that "package-cleanup --problems" gives no

Done, already posted.

> warning
> 


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Re: Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Ian Pilcher]

On 12/02/2011 02:18 PM, Chris Bredesen wrote:
> Why does GNOME warn me that numlock is on?  I get warning for capslock; 
> you can unknowingly botch a password.  But numlock?  Are there keyboards 
> for which the non-numeric keys on the d-pad can type valid characters?
> 
> Seems odd but I don't want to file a bug until I understand why it is 
> the way it is; I'm probably missing something.

Laptops


-- 

Ian Pilcher arequip...@gmail.com
"If you're going to shift my paradigm ... at least buy me dinner first."


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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Reindl Harald]

Am 03.12.2011 01:24, schrieb Elliott Chapin:
> On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade
> 
> Specifically?

the kmod-packages and the crap listed which was built
against the old ffmpeg-libraries and no update available



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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 20:38 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> I'm a long time KDE user and survivor of the move to KDE 4. 
> 
> Thought some of you may be interested in the view point of Linus
> 
> "Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension, gnome-3.2 is
> starting to look almost usable.
> 
> Now I just hope those things become part of the standard gnome shell
> setup and made available in the regular "system config" thing rather
> than hidden off. Sure, make them default to off if you want that "clean
> default", but make them easy to find and part of the standard install.

Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
actually matters.

What I did see on the Ubuntu list was a reference to this...

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/things-to-tweak-after-installing-ubuntu.html

which I thought was a rather helpful page and wonder if someone has done
something similar for Fedora (though much of the Ubuntu tweaks are
suitable for Fedora). One of the things I like about Ubuntu is that
there are some resources out there that don't seem to exist for Fedora.

and as long as I am quoting & linking, I found this quote (attributable
to Paul Mauritz of VMWare) to be very intriguing...

"Three years ago over 95 percent of the devices connected to the
Internet were personal computers. Three years from now that number will
probably be less than 20 percent. More than 80 percent of the devices
connected to the Internet will not be Windows-based personal computers."

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/can-ubuntu-linux-win-on-smartphones-and-tablets/9843

Craig


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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 03.12.2011 02:38, schrieb Craig White:
> Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
> a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert 

maybe some of the self called ui-experts should take a deep breath
for one or two years and left the users in peace with their next big
thing so that people which are working with their computers are not
permanently interrupted

linus is not a ui-expert but he has more sensibility what users
needs than most of the experts - users are needing workspaces
which are not chaning their whole behavior each year

> "Three years ago over 95 percent of the devices connected to the
> Internet were personal computers. Three years from now that number will
> probably be less than 20 percent. More than 80 percent of the devices
> connected to the Internet will not be Windows-based personal computers."

this is nonsense

the percent does not matter since nearly everybody has a smartphone
which is permanently online, but this does not mean that all these
people are only using a smartphone or tab which will not happen

not now, not in 3 years and not in 10 years

theer are enough people working with their computers and not only
webbrowsing and write some mails!



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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Scott Doty]

Craig White  wrote:

>On Fri,
>Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
>a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
>those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
>actually matters.
>

Yes of course, old boy.  Quite amusing.  More to the point: we tittered when we 
read that Linus had an opinion, and that some thought his opinions were 
regarded much more than those found in our ivory towers from which we post to a 
Fedora mailing list.

(Signed)

Wilbur Tanenbaum, esq., &c.

Postscript,

>"Three years ago over 95 percent of the devices connected to the
>Internet were personal computers. Three years from now that number will
>probably be less than 20 percent. More than 80 percent of the devices
>connected to the Internet will not be Windows-based personal
>computers."
>
>http://www.zdnet.com

Say no more!  Such evidence is more than enough to establish just cause for 
amusement!

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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Ed Greshko]

On 12/03/2011 09:38 AM, Craig White wrote:
> Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
> a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
> those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
> actually matters.

So this is what I hear you saying.

Linus is a kernel developer and not a UI developer.  Thus, his opinion
does not matter. 
Since Linus is not a UI developer, he is only an end user.  Thus, the
opinions of end users don't matter.

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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Christopher A. Williams]

On Sat, 2011-12-03 at 02:50 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:

> 
> > "Three years ago over 95 percent of the devices connected to the
> > Internet were personal computers. Three years from now that number will
> > probably be less than 20 percent. More than 80 percent of the devices
> > connected to the Internet will not be Windows-based personal computers."
> 
> this is nonsense
> 
> the percent does not matter since nearly everybody has a smartphone
> which is permanently online, but this does not mean that all these
> people are only using a smartphone or tab which will not happen
> 
> not now, not in 3 years and not in 10 years
> 
> theer are enough people working with their computers and not only
> webbrowsing and write some mails!

To the contrary, if you know the full context of Paul Maritz's quote
here, he actually makes complete sense.

I have heard him speak about this in-person and his overall points are
very convincing and well-grounded in facts. The *majority* of Internet
connected devices will definitely be in the smartphone and tablet
category in the next 3 years. That does not mean they will be the *only*
devices. Paul also clearly believes that, as a result of this change,
Windows as an operating system will continue to lose relevance in the
coming years. That's saying a lot considering he is the person who is
largely responsible for engineering the dominance of Windows 95 (whether
you'd call how he did it cheating or not).

He also believes operating systems like Linux will continue to gain in
acceptance and popularity over this time frame, but that this will still
mainly be from non-PC devices. He often refers to this as the coming
Post-PC era.

I believe he is largely correct.

The fact of the matter is we are already seeing this happen. Smartphones
are starting to displace even desktop computers in low income families
because they are cheaper (as in $200 range), constantly connected, and
do actually handle most of the basic tasks (e-mail, basic Web, etc.)
that were once solely the domain of PCs. Tablets are quickly displacing
laptops in the business world. The main barrier is that they are more
difficult to use for producing information than PCs at the moment. They
are equally as good for those who are primarily consumers of
information. Once tablet manufacturers actually decide to deal with
issues around printing and getting more effective input methods in
place, tablet acceptance will likely take off like a shot.

PCs will likely never go away, but to say that they will not be greatly
impacted by the coming age of new devices is to stick your head in the
sand and pretend that the change isn't coming. And Linux does very well
in this coming wave...

Chris

-- 

==
"The best way to sound like you know what you're talking about
is to know what you're talking about."

--Harvey Mackay

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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Elliott Chapin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/02/2011 08:28 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 03.12.2011 01:24, schrieb Elliott Chapin:
>> On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade
>> 
>> Specifically?
> 
> the kmod-packages and the crap listed which was built against the
> old ffmpeg-libraries and no update available
> 

Thx. The kmod-wl I apparently need because I have broadcom wifi - it
generally has caught up after a few days. I'll study the ffmeg biz.
The state of my system is a bit annoying - but generally usable. The
next thing I'll do is see how much I have to uncheck from the
suggested update list and still not see the whole process stall.


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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Craig White]

On Sat, 2011-12-03 at 10:41 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 12/03/2011 09:38 AM, Craig White wrote:
> > Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
> > a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
> > those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
> > actually matters.
> 
> So this is what I hear you saying.
> 
> Linus is a kernel developer and not a UI developer.  Thus, his opinion
> does not matter. 
> Since Linus is not a UI developer, he is only an end user.  Thus, the
> opinions of end users don't matter.

I think his opinion matters as much as anyone else (and I gather that in
the eyes of Gnome developers, not so much).

You know my feelings as I too am a KDE 4 survivor ;-) To make an omelet,
you have to break some eggs. I think there is a core of long time Linux
users who were upset because their familiar interface changed. Such is
progress.

Craig


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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Elliott Chapin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/02/2011 08:28 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 03.12.2011 01:24, schrieb Elliott Chapin:
>> On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade
>> 
>> Specifically?
> 
> the kmod-packages and the crap listed which was built against the
> old ffmpeg-libraries and no update available
> 
> 

Actually, I see that yumex is a nice tool for improving this kind of
mess somewhat.


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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 22:07 -0500, Elliott Chapin wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 08:28 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Am 03.12.2011 01:24, schrieb Elliott Chapin:
> >> On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >>> remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade
> >> 
> >> Specifically?
> > 
> > the kmod-packages and the crap listed which was built against the
> > old ffmpeg-libraries and no update available
> > 
> > 
> 
> Actually, I see that yumex is a nice tool for improving this kind of
> mess somewhat.

regardless of which tool you use, for issues like this, it's always
quicker & easier to remove broken packages and re-install them.

Craig


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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Scott Doty]

On 12/02/2011 07:10 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-12-03 at 10:41 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 12/03/2011 09:38 AM, Craig White wrote:
>>> Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
>>> a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
>>> those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
>>> actually matters.
>> So this is what I hear you saying.
>>
>> Linus is a kernel developer and not a UI developer.  Thus, his opinion
>> does not matter. 
>> Since Linus is not a UI developer, he is only an end user.  Thus, the
>> opinions of end users don't matter.
> 
> I think his opinion matters as much as anyone else (and I gather that in
> the eyes of Gnome developers, not so much).
>
> You know my feelings as I too am a KDE 4 survivor ;-) To make an omelet,
> you have to break some eggs. I think there is a core of long time Linux
> users who were upset because their familiar interface changed. Such is
> progress.
>
>

Change for the sake of change has always been idiotic.

In the case of Gnome 2, how many person-hours have been invested for
people to customize their work environments?  And poof!  All gone!

But it is very hipcrime to be counter-cultural these days -- why yes,
let's poo-poo Linus' opinion -- after all, he's a "long time Linux
user", whose opinion is ranked by idiots to be slightly lower than those
charged with the crime of the current Gnome UI regression.

Those who still employ critical thinking might be interested in the
logical fallacy we are being subjected to:

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#novitatem

...but we already knew that, didn't we?

 -Scott

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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 12/03/2011 04:10 AM, Craig White wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-12-03 at 10:41 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 12/03/2011 09:38 AM, Craig White wrote:
>>> Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
>>> a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
>>> those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
>>> actually matters.
>>
>> So this is what I hear you saying.
>>
>> Linus is a kernel developer and not a UI developer.  Thus, his opinion
>> does not matter.
>> Since Linus is not a UI developer, he is only an end user.  Thus, the
>> opinions of end users don't matter.
> 
> I think his opinion matters as much as anyone else (and I gather that in
> the eyes of Gnome developers, not so much).
ACK.

> You know my feelings as I too am a KDE 4 survivor ;-) To make an omelet,
> you have to break some eggs. I think there is a core of long time Linux
> users who were upset because their familiar interface changed. Such is
> progress.

Being one of these long time Linux users, I won't deny there is some 
truth in what you say. The bigger question is if Gnome 3 is actual 
progress or an "epic fail"?

When being presented Gnome 3, my feeling were the same as I had when my 
then-3-year-old nice had proudly presented me here "flying horse".
"Look Uncle, my horse has learned to fly" (She had attached a couple of 
plastic feathers to her plush pony's back and was throwing it into my 
direction.).

Ralf

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Re: FC16 update problems - more info

[Elliott Chapin]

On 12/02/2011 10:17 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 22:07 -0500, Elliott Chapin wrote:
>> On 12/02/2011 08:28 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.12.2011 01:24, schrieb Elliott Chapin:
 On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> remove weak supported external packages for the upgrade

 Specifically?
>>>
>>> the kmod-packages and the crap listed which was built against the
>>> old ffmpeg-libraries and no update available
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Actually, I see that yumex is a nice tool for improving this kind of
>> mess somewhat.
> 
> regardless of which tool you use, for issues like this, it's always
> quicker & easier to remove broken packages and re-install them.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 

Thanks for the reminder. That may work with some of what remains.

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Re: Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Hiisi]

On 3 December 2011 04:57, Ian Pilcher  wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 02:18 PM, Chris Bredesen wrote:
>> Why does GNOME warn me that numlock is on?  I get warning for capslock;
>> you can unknowingly botch a password.  But numlock?  Are there keyboards
>> for which the non-numeric keys on the d-pad can type valid characters?
>>
>> Seems odd but I don't want to file a bug until I understand why it is
>> the way it is; I'm probably missing something.
>
> Laptops
>

Is there a way to turn it off? This feature irritates me badly. What's
the package name? I would dig through sources, erase those awful lines
of code and recompile it manually.
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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 19:40 -0800, Scott Doty wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 07:10 PM, Craig White wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-12-03 at 10:41 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> >> On 12/03/2011 09:38 AM, Craig White wrote:
> >>> Whatever Linus thinks of Gnome is rather beside the point in that he is
> >>> a kernel developer, not a Desktop UI expert and I am rather amused by
> >>> those who felt his dis' of Gnome 3 or apparently now his receptiveness
> >>> actually matters.
> >> So this is what I hear you saying.
> >>
> >> Linus is a kernel developer and not a UI developer.  Thus, his opinion
> >> does not matter. 
> >> Since Linus is not a UI developer, he is only an end user.  Thus, the
> >> opinions of end users don't matter.
> > 
> > I think his opinion matters as much as anyone else (and I gather that in
> > the eyes of Gnome developers, not so much).
> >
> > You know my feelings as I too am a KDE 4 survivor ;-) To make an omelet,
> > you have to break some eggs. I think there is a core of long time Linux
> > users who were upset because their familiar interface changed. Such is
> > progress.
> >
> >
> 
> Change for the sake of change has always been idiotic.
> 
> In the case of Gnome 2, how many person-hours have been invested for
> people to customize their work environments?  And poof!  All gone!
> 
> But it is very hipcrime to be counter-cultural these days -- why yes,
> let's poo-poo Linus' opinion -- after all, he's a "long time Linux
> user", whose opinion is ranked by idiots to be slightly lower than those
> charged with the crime of the current Gnome UI regression.
> 
> Those who still employ critical thinking might be interested in the
> logical fallacy we are being subjected to:
> 
>   http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#novitatem
> 
> ...but we already knew that, didn't we?

Considering...

- that you can have your beloved Gnome 2 for at least another 5 years on
RHEL 6 (or various rebuilds thereof),

- that Fedora embraces the latest technology advances and yes, that
includes Gnome,

- that approximately 3 years is considered a generation in terms of
computer technology which includes everything from hardware to end user
interfaces,

- that regardless of you feelings of Gnome 3, there are people who
actually like it,

- that a significant portion of the Gnome code base had aged and needed
to be re-written was not merely 'Change for the sake of change',

- you want to pin some relevance to whatever Linux Torvalds thinks about
Gnome is actually significant to this or any discussion,

your whimpers are laughable. I don't recall seeing you post on this list
before tonight. Are you a longtime Fedora user? Been using a different
name?

Craig


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Re: Numlock warning on password entry boxes

[Ed Greshko]

On 12/03/2011 08:18 AM, Tim wrote:
> I've never seen the point of that.  On every non-laptop keyboard that
> I've seen (*), those special keys actually have dedicated keys right
> next to the numberpad (the page up and down, print screen, etc., keys).
> So turning off numlock gives you a second set of the same thing, right
> next to them.  And you lose the ability to quickly enter numbers.

The dedicated keys do produce different codes than those on the keypad

KeyPress event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x761,
root 0x15a, subw 0x0, time 707839323, (166,-10), root:(1405,12),
state 0x0, keycode 88 (keysym 0xff99, KP_Down), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x761,
root 0x15a, subw 0x0, time 707850379, (166,-10), root:(1405,12),
state 0x0, keycode 116 (keysym 0xff54, Down), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False


I wonder if any application makes use of the differences?  FWIW, I
always run with NumLock on.

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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Sam Varshavchik]

Craig White writes:


I think his opinion matters as much as anyone else (and I gather that in
the eyes of Gnome developers, not so much).

You know my feelings as I too am a KDE 4 survivor ;-) To make an omelet,
you have to break some eggs. I think there is a core of long time Linux
users who were upset because their familiar interface changed. Such is
progress.


It's not that stuff has merely changed. It's that the stuff has changed,  
major parts of existing functionality were removed without having any  
functional replacements, and every time someone points this out, they're  
told that they're too stupid to know what's good for them, and this is The  
Better Way. There was a very good rant on Slashdot today, about an apparent  
army of fired UI "experts" that, apparently, have nothing better to do than  
invade existing projects, and remove existing functionality and replace it  
with rounded corners and gradient background colors.


In Gnome 2 I had a usable panel widget that showed my sensors CPU  
temperature, a small weather widget, and a power management widget that  
actually showed the watt-hour capacity of my laptop battery, so I can  
observe it degradation, with every passing month.


Gnome 3 came without any kind of a sensors CPU widget. There's one now,  
which does not work. I can see why it's broken, it's reading off an internal  
hardcoded list of /sys paths, and my kernel creates /sys nodes for its eight  
CPU core thermal sensors that the widget doesn't know anything about, so it  
just sits there, and tells me I'm running at 0 degrees Celsius. There's  
still no weather panel wiget, to my knowledge. At one point I have a dim  
recollection that "gnome-power-manager-extras" existed, that added a  
comparable watt-hour popup, but right now nothing like it exists, and the  
icon just sits there with a single %-age label.


And I won't even get started on the clusterfracas with the desktop icons,  
and the evolution of the "have file-manager handle the desktop" option in  
tweaktools.




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Description: PGP signature
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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Scott Doty]

On 12/02/2011 08:48 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>
>
> In Gnome 2 I had a usable panel widget that showed my sensors CPU
> temperature, a small weather widget, and a power management widget
> that actually showed the watt-hour capacity of my laptop battery, so I
> can observe it degradation, with every passing month.
>
> Gnome 3 came without any kind of a sensors CPU widget. There's one
> now, which does not work. I can see why it's broken, it's reading off
> an internal hardcoded list of /sys paths, and my kernel creates /sys
> nodes for its eight CPU core thermal sensors that the widget doesn't
> know anything about, so it just sits there, and tells me I'm running
> at 0 degrees Celsius. There's still no weather panel wiget, to my
> knowledge. At one point I have a dim recollection that
> "gnome-power-manager-extras" existed, that added a comparable
> watt-hour popup, but right now nothing like it exists, and the icon
> just sits there with a single %-age label.
>
> And I won't even get started on the clusterfracas with the desktop
> icons, and the evolution of the "have file-manager handle the desktop"
> option in tweaktools.

BTW, I brought up these issues when I updated my laptop to F15, and it
was suggested I go tell it to the Gnome usability list.

   http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability

 -Scott

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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Scott Doty]

On 12/02/2011 09:02 PM, Craig White wrote:
> - you want to pin some relevance to whatever Linux Torvalds thinks
> about Gnome is actually significant to this or any discussion, your
> whimpers are laughable. I don't recall seeing you post on this list
> before tonight. Are you a longtime Fedora user? Been using a different
> name? Craig 

Pally, your blathering flamebait regarding Linus' opinion was unwanted,
unwelcome, and illustrative of the kind of thinking that idolizes shiny
things, without ever having to do real work on a computer.

I've personally been using Linux since 1992, Redhat since the
"Halloween" release up until FC1 began, and every release of FC/F up
until today -- not that that matters one iota, except to point out just
how much you've messed up, Son.

Old timers will note that I have attacked nothing but your arguments --
and if that reflects poorly on the arguer, that's for you to figure out.

Meanwhile, everybody sees what you just did -- and those with critical
thinking skills can see, plainly, the logical fallacies that you are
clearly unaware of having uttered.  That, too, is your problem -- all
because you posted your flame bait.

 -Scott
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Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Scott Doty]

On 12/02/2011 09:02 PM, Craig White wrote:
> - you want to pin some relevance to whatever Linux Torvalds thinks
> about Gnome is actually significant to this or any discussion, your
> whimpers are laughable. I don't recall seeing you post on this list
> before tonight. Are you a longtime Fedora user? Been using a different
> name? Craig 

This is ludicrous.

Pally, your blathering flamebait regarding Linus' opinion was unwanted,
unwelcome, and illustrative of the kind of thinking that idolizes shiny
things, without ever having to do real work on a computer.

I've personally been using Linux since 1992, Redhat since the
"Halloween" release up until FC1 began, and every release of FC/F up
until today -- not that that matters one iota, except to point out just
how much you've messed up, Son.

Old timers will note that I have attacked nothing but your arguments --
and if that reflects poorly on the arguer, that's for you to figure out.

Meanwhile, everybody sees what you just did -- and those with critical
thinking skills can see, plainly, the logical fallacies that you are
clearly unaware of having uttered.  That, too, is your problem -- all
because you posted your flame bait.

Hell, isn't it?

 -Scott

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