Re: The continuous crippling of Fedora LiveCDs by removing usefull stuff for no apparent reason

[Sylvia Sánchez]

Agree with Chris.




Cheers,
Sylvia

On 20/12/2015, Chris Murphy  wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Ian Malone  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's neither of these,
>>>
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB#Data_persistence
>>>
>>> 'currently implemented (as a Device-mapper copy-on-write snapshot),
>>> every single change to it (writes AND deletes) subtracts from its free
>>> space, so it will eventually be "used up"'
>>
>>
>> It confirms what I said: it's broken.
>
> It's not broken. It's working as designed and documented. From
> livecd-iso-to-disk --help
>
> *Note well* that
> deletion of any original files in the read-only root filesystem does
> not
> recover any storage space on your LiveOS device.  Storage in the
> persistent /LiveOS/overlay- file is allocated as needed,
> but
> the system will crash *without warning* and fail to boot once the
> overlay has been totally consumed.  If significant changes or
> updates
> to the root filesystem are to be made, carefully watch the fraction
> of
> space allocated in the overlay by issuing the 'dmsetup status'
> command
> at a command line of the running LiveOS image.  Some consumption of
> root
> filesystem and overlay space can be avoided by specifying a
> persistent
> home filesystem for user files, see --home-size-mb below.
>
>
>> How about changing the LiveCD creator
>> to allow for "persistent storage" partition that is formatted with F2FS?
>
> Someone needs to volunteer to do the research why that's a better
> option, and include some patches and kickstart scripts so that others
> can test. F2FS does not produce better results just by using it. It's
> highly customizeable/tunable, and it assumes you know things about
> your flash based drive that it can't know (because manufacturer's hide
> this information) so you can tune it. If you don't tune it, you can
> get worse results than just using ext4/XFS/Btrfs or heck even FAT or
> NTFS because the FTL in especially USB flash storage is very well
> tuned for FAT.
>
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firefox 42.0 does not play youtube video

[François Patte]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Bonjour,

Everything is in the subject

I don't know exactly since when youtube videos can't be played in
firefox on my machine (fedora 21): I can see the first image of the
video, the slider works normaly, but the video is not played

Is it a bug or do I need some extra plugin?

Thank you.

- -- 
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UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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b7sAoJuDj4tIM0y5D2I/lbCr9E4tjMAW
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tar exclude cache

[Patrick Dupre]

Hello,

I am trying to exclude the .cache directories when I tar a home directory
by using:
tar -cjf /mnt/backup/home.tbz2 --exclude-caches-all /home/pdupre
but it does not work.
What am I doing wrong ?

Thank for your help.

===
 Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
 Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
 Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale   | |
 Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12   | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
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Re: tar exclude cache

[Doug H.]

On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 21:29 +0100, Patrick Dupre wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to exclude the .cache directories when I tar a home
> directory
> by using:
> tar -cjf /mnt/backup/home.tbz2 --exclude-caches-all /home/pdupre
> but it does not work.
> What am I doing wrong ?


Do the .cache dirs each have a file called CACHEDIR.TAG with just the
below line?

Signature: 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55

I don't remember learning about this tar feature but checking the man
page of tar I found the name of that tag file and a test found the file
to not be enough but a web search came up with the idea that they need
that signature and adding that line to my tag file caused my tar to act
as expected.



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Re: tar exclude cache

[Patrick Dupre]

Thank you

===
 Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
 Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
 Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale   | |
 Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12   | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===


> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 at 9:50 PM
> From: "Doug H." 
> To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Subject: Re: tar exclude cache
>
> On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 21:29 +0100, Patrick Dupre wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am trying to exclude the .cache directories when I tar a home
> > directory
> > by using:
> > tar -cjf /mnt/backup/home.tbz2 --exclude-caches-all /home/pdupre
> > but it does not work.
> > What am I doing wrong ?
> 
> 
> Do the .cache dirs each have a file called CACHEDIR.TAG with just the
> below line?
> 
> Signature: 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55
> 
> I don't remember learning about this tar feature but checking the man
> page of tar I found the name of that tag file and a test found the file
> to not be enough but a web search came up with the idea that they need
> that signature and adding that line to my tag file caused my tar to act
> as expected.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Doug H.
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Re: tar exclude cache

[Rick Stevens]

On 12/21/2015 02:41 PM, Patrick Dupre wrote:

Thank you


By the way, the signature is the MD5 hash of the string
".IsCacheDirectory" and it's SPECIFICALLY looked for by tar:

	[root@prophead tmp]# strings /bin/tar | grep 
8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55

Signature: 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55

They don't mention the need for the signature in the man page, but it IS
buried in the "info" pages (under section 6.4):


   When creating an archive, the '--exclude-caches' option family causes
'tar' to exclude all directories that contain a "cache directory tag".
A cache directory tag is a short file with the well-known name
'CACHEDIR.TAG' and having a standard header specified in
.  Various applications
write cache directory tags into directories they use to hold
regenerable, non-precious data, so that such data can be more easily
excluded from backups.

   There are three 'exclude-caches' options, each providing a different
exclusion semantics:

'--exclude-caches'
 Do not archive the contents of the directory, but archive the
 directory itself and the 'CACHEDIR.TAG' file.

'--exclude-caches-under'
 Do not archive the contents of the directory, nor the
 'CACHEDIR.TAG' file, archive only the directory itself.

'--exclude-caches-all'
 Omit directories containing 'CACHEDIR.TAG' file entirely.


And the spec mentioned was written in...2004! Jeeze! I don't think they
could have buried this information deeper if they tried. I knew about
it, but it's pretty damned silly to not put it in the man page since not
everyone installs info and its database. And even with info, the
signature itself is NOT defined except in the webpage cited. What if
they decide to take that site offline because the author doesn't wish
to keep it up?

I'm sending a copy of this note to bug-...@gnu.org. Perhaps they'll 
update their docs.



Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 at 9:50 PM
From: "Doug H." 
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: tar exclude cache

On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 21:29 +0100, Patrick Dupre wrote:

Hello,

I am trying to exclude the .cache directories when I tar a home
directory
by using:
tar -cjf /mnt/backup/home.tbz2 --exclude-caches-all /home/pdupre
but it does not work.
What am I doing wrong ?



Do the .cache dirs each have a file called CACHEDIR.TAG with just the
below line?

Signature: 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55

I don't remember learning about this tar feature but checking the man
page of tar I found the name of that tag file and a test found the file
to not be enough but a web search came up with the idea that they need
that signature and adding that line to my tag file caused my tar to act
as expected.



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Re: firefox 42.0 does not play youtube video

[stan]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 18:04:42 +0100
François Patte  wrote:

> Bonjour,
> 
> Everything is in the subject
> 
> I don't know exactly since when youtube videos can't be played in
> firefox on my machine (fedora 21): I can see the first image of the
> video, the slider works normaly, but the video is not played
> 
> Is it a bug or do I need some extra plugin?

I can play at least this video at youtube,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJz5d7cAVfY
in F21.  Google recently moved the videos to a new domain,
googlevideo.com, and if you are using noscript, that is probably not
enabled.  I had to enable both youtube.com and that domain in noscript
before the video would play.  I am using firefox nightly, rather than
the default version for F21.
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Re: tar exclude cache

[Doug H.]

On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 16:19 -0800, Rick Stevens wrote:
> On 12/21/2015 02:41 PM, Patrick Dupre wrote:
> > Thank you
> 
> By the way, the signature is the MD5 hash of the string
> ".IsCacheDirectory" and it's SPECIFICALLY looked for by tar:

[snip of great info]

As a bonus question; do you know why md5sum is showing a different
value, as in...

>echo ".IsCacheDirectory" | md5sum -
6929f806dd11bc634be8205d11af24d6  -

I used "John the Ripper" to prove that 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55
really *is* the hash of .IsCacheDirectory but I am not clear on what
md5sum is giving me.

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Re: tar exclude cache

[Rick Stevens]

On 12/21/2015 05:37 PM, Doug H. wrote:

On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 16:19 -0800, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 12/21/2015 02:41 PM, Patrick Dupre wrote:

Thank you


By the way, the signature is the MD5 hash of the string
".IsCacheDirectory" and it's SPECIFICALLY looked for by tar:


[snip of great info]

As a bonus question; do you know why md5sum is showing a different
value, as in...


echo ".IsCacheDirectory" | md5sum -

6929f806dd11bc634be8205d11af24d6  -

I used "John the Ripper" to prove that 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55
really *is* the hash of .IsCacheDirectory but I am not clear on what
md5sum is giving me.


Has to do with end-of-line stuff. Try:

[root@prophead tmp]# printf "%s" ".IsCacheDirectory" | md5sum
8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55  -

(the "-" at the end is md5sum telling me that it was looking at stdin).
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Re: tar exclude cache

[Rick Stevens]

On 12/21/2015 06:11 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 12/21/2015 05:37 PM, Doug H. wrote:

On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 16:19 -0800, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 12/21/2015 02:41 PM, Patrick Dupre wrote:

Thank you


By the way, the signature is the MD5 hash of the string
".IsCacheDirectory" and it's SPECIFICALLY looked for by tar:


[snip of great info]

As a bonus question; do you know why md5sum is showing a different
value, as in...


echo ".IsCacheDirectory" | md5sum -

6929f806dd11bc634be8205d11af24d6  -

I used "John the Ripper" to prove that 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55
really *is* the hash of .IsCacheDirectory but I am not clear on what
md5sum is giving me.


Has to do with end-of-line stuff. Try:

 [root@prophead tmp]# printf "%s" ".IsCacheDirectory" | md5sum
 8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55  -

(the "-" at the end is md5sum telling me that it was looking at stdin).


Additional:
[root@prophead tmp]# echo -n ".IsCacheDirectory" | md5sum
8a477f597d28d172789f06886806bc55  -

("echo -n" means "don't include the newline")

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Re: firefox 42.0 does not play youtube video

[stan]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 18:04:42 +0100
François Patte  wrote:


> 
> Bonjour,
> 
> Everything is in the subject
> 
> I don't know exactly since when youtube videos can't be played in
> firefox on my machine (fedora 21): I can see the first image of the
> video, the slider works normaly, but the video is not played
> 
> Is it a bug or do I need some extra plugin?

I fired up the distribution browser in F21, version 42, and I was about
to write that I could not get it to play youtube videos, when I tried
it one last time, and it suddenly started working.  Not sure what
changed.  It would just hang when starting the video, until a message
came up saying something about an error, learn more.  Happened
several times, but once it started playing the videos, it played them
from then on.

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No Bluetooth mouse in sddm before first login

[Andrej Podzimek]

Hello,

In Fedora 23, my Bluetooth mouse works fine in KDE. However, it doesn't work in 
sddm before the first user logs in. It works afterwards and keeps working even 
after the first (or second or whichever) user logs out.

The very first login without a mouse is quite an inconvenience. Any ideas what 
could be wrong? The same thing works perfectly fine in Arch -- the mouse works 
from the very beginning, once it's paired by a user in the KDE Bluetooth GUI, 
there's a bunch of metadata stored somewhere in /var about the pairing and the 
mouse can easily reestablish its connection, no matter if users are logged in 
or not.

What can be different on Fedora? SELinux? And why does the mouse magically 
start working as intended once the very first user logs in? Just abou tany 
debugging tips would be helpful. (Looking at .xsession-errors for 
sddm/root/user and logs from bluettothd, sddm and X.org didn't yield anything 
eye-opening thus far.)

Cheers,
Andrej
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Re: firefox 42.0 does not play youtube video

[Zoltan Hoppar]

I have noticed suddenly goes crashing when you are using html5 only.
When it trying to change the load of the stream simply on my lappie
crashing every time, and kills firefox. Under webkit based browsers
doesn't producing this. More and less for me Firefox is as it changes
version gets changes into an bloatware, so I don't use that much.

Zoltan

2015-12-22 3:57 GMT+01:00 stan :
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 18:04:42 +0100
> François Patte  wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Everything is in the subject
>>
>> I don't know exactly since when youtube videos can't be played in
>> firefox on my machine (fedora 21): I can see the first image of the
>> video, the slider works normaly, but the video is not played
>>
>> Is it a bug or do I need some extra plugin?
>
> I fired up the distribution browser in F21, version 42, and I was about
> to write that I could not get it to play youtube videos, when I tried
> it one last time, and it suddenly started working.  Not sure what
> changed.  It would just hang when starting the video, until a message
> came up saying something about an error, learn more.  Happened
> several times, but once it started playing the videos, it played them
> from then on.
>
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Re: The continuous crippling of Fedora LiveCDs by removing usefull stuff for no apparent reason

[Ian Malone]

On 21 December 2015 at 01:17, Chris Murphy  wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Ian Malone  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's neither of these,
>>>
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB#Data_persistence
>>>
>>> 'currently implemented (as a Device-mapper copy-on-write snapshot),
>>> every single change to it (writes AND deletes) subtracts from its free
>>> space, so it will eventually be "used up"'
>>
>>
>> It confirms what I said: it's broken.
>
> It's not broken. It's working as designed and documented. From
> livecd-iso-to-disk --help
>
> *Note well* that
> deletion of any original files in the read-only root filesystem does 
> not
> recover any storage space on your LiveOS device.  Storage in the
> persistent /LiveOS/overlay- file is allocated as needed, 
> but
> the system will crash *without warning* and fail to boot once the
> overlay has been totally consumed.  If significant changes or updates
> to the root filesystem are to be made, carefully watch the fraction of
> space allocated in the overlay by issuing the 'dmsetup status' command
> at a command line of the running LiveOS image.  Some consumption of 
> root
> filesystem and overlay space can be avoided by specifying a persistent
> home filesystem for user files, see --home-size-mb below.
>
>
>> How about changing the LiveCD creator
>> to allow for "persistent storage" partition that is formatted with F2FS?
>
> Someone needs to volunteer to do the research why that's a better
> option, and include some patches and kickstart scripts so that others
> can test. F2FS does not produce better results just by using it. It's
> highly customizeable/tunable, and it assumes you know things about
> your flash based drive that it can't know (because manufacturer's hide
> this information) so you can tune it. If you don't tune it, you can
> get worse results than just using ext4/XFS/Btrfs or heck even FAT or
> NTFS because the FTL in especially USB flash storage is very well
> tuned for FAT.
>

More than that, the live images are built on squashfs as a compressed
filesystem (would direct Fernando to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SquashFS), which is where the
requirement to use an overlay to allow persistent storage on root
comes from. There is the option (as I mentioned, removed from the
quote of course) to use a persistent storage image on a normal
filesystem alongside it for home (and whether this is ext4 or f2fs has
nothing to do with the price of fish), but that cannot be done for the
squashfs. So far as I know, you would need to rebuild the image when
creating the live device to allow changing the root filesystem.

If you want a live image with certain packages installed it's not too
hard to roll your own, just create a kickstart file that includes
whatever base kickstart you want and add packages.

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Re: The continuous crippling of Fedora LiveCDs by removing usefull stuff for no apparent reason

[Chris Murphy]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Ian Malone  wrote:

> More than that, the live images are built on squashfs as a compressed
> filesystem (would direct Fernando to
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SquashFS), which is where the
> requirement to use an overlay to allow persistent storage on root
> comes from. There is the option (as I mentioned, removed from the
> quote of course) to use a persistent storage image on a normal
> filesystem alongside it for home (and whether this is ext4 or f2fs has
> nothing to do with the price of fish), but that cannot be done for the
> squashfs. So far as I know, you would need to rebuild the image when
> creating the live device to allow changing the root filesystem.
>
> If you want a live image with certain packages installed it's not too
> hard to roll your own, just create a kickstart file that includes
> whatever base kickstart you want and add packages.

I don't follow why not just install to a 2nd USB stick normally, and
use that stick to boot from on various computers. The live is for
rather short duration usage, like evaluation, installation, and
troubleshooting. It's not exactly well suited for being fully updated,
e.g. you can't update the kernel or the initramfs. So the ability to
keep the system really up to date is inherently limited with the
overlay, and it's slower using squashfs+overlay than any of the other
available options.

Happy solstice.


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Chris Murphy
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Good speech to text conveter

[Aakanksha Singh]

Folks,

I have a large bundle of audio files to convert into text.
Can anyone recommend a good software for speech to text conversion.

Thanks,
Aakanksha
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Re: No Bluetooth mouse in sddm before first login

[Berend De Schouwer]

On Tue, 2015-12-22 at 04:06 +0100, Andrej Podzimek wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> In Fedora 23, my Bluetooth mouse works fine in KDE. However, it
> doesn't work in sddm before the first user logs in. It works
> afterwards and keeps working even after the first (or second or
> whichever) user logs out.

I've got a similar problem with gdm.  Sometimes pairing with HID
devices (mouse & keyboard) doesn't work immediately.  Once they are
paired, they seem to stay paired.

My problem may or may not be the same as yours.  For me, they don't
always pair after login either.  Sometimes I've got to go into
bluetooth settings and toggle it on and off.

There's a completely different problem that bluetooth keyboards don't
work with luks (long before login) because bluetooth isn't running yet.

> The very first login without a mouse is quite an inconvenience. Any
> ideas what could be wrong? The same thing works perfectly fine in
> Arch -- the mouse works from the very beginning, once it's paired by
> a user in the KDE Bluetooth GUI, there's a bunch of metadata stored
> somewhere in /var about the pairing and the mouse can easily
> reestablish its connection, no matter if users are logged in or not.

They are saved in /var/lib/bluetooth/ in Fedora.  They are supposed to
pop up.  You need to be root to view them.

Bluetoothd runs as root, not a user, and should be running before the
login prompt, and should reconnect HID devices.

> What can be different on Fedora? SELinux? And why does the mouse
> magically start working as intended once the very first user logs in?
> Just abou tany debugging tips would be helpful. (Looking at
> .xsession-errors for sddm/root/user and logs from bluettothd, sddm
> and X.org didn't yield anything eye-opening thus far.)

You could be hitting the same bug in the bluetooth stack as me, where
sometimes the device thinks it has re-connected, but the laptop thinks
the connection is missing.

It could also be that sddm and bluetoothd aren't talking, or bluetoothd
isn't running until you've logged in.


Things to check:

If you have a device that supports it, check if the device is connected
on bootup, but your laptop thinks bluetooth is disconnected.  Some
devices have different blinking leds on connection.

Check if bluetoothd is running.  Alt-f2 if it works, otherwise enable
sshd and ssh in and check.


> Cheers,
> Andrej

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