Re: Progress?

[James McKenzie]

On 8/3/11 12:35 PM, Stuart McGraw wrote:
> On 08/02/2011 08:15 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 8/1/11 11:46 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Constructive criticism and suggestions are far more useful than just
>>> enumerating grievances.
>> Amen said the choir.  Bellyaching about something you cannot change is
>> not going to change it and might just dig the heels in of the developers
>> more.  I've been of that ilk for YEARS.  If you have something to say,
>> say it, but coat it with HONEY.  Remember, the song in Mary Poppins "A
>> Spoon Full of Sugar Make the Medicine Go Down"?  That is what we should
>> be doing.  [...]
> I certainly agree "Constructive criticism and suggestions
> are far more useful than just enumerating grievances" but
> don't think that means the latter are useless.
They may not be useless, but as a developer I would find them offensive 
and not pay much attention if the management has told me to 'go another 
way'.
>
> As to the honey part, I disagree.  Developers and users
> constitute a partnership and I don't think it is good to set
> the smaller number of developers on a pedestal, approachable
> only with circumspection and deference reminiscent of a
> French commoner approaching the court of Louis XVI.
We already have done this.  We basically have alienated the developers 
to the point that they don't even reply to legitimate bug reports.  That 
is a BAD place to be.
> Both partners get pluses and minuses from the partnership.
> Developers get bug reporting, bug fixes, and the ego strokes
> from being developer of a widely used piece of software.
> They may also get financial rewards in the form of consulting
> or book contracts, or job offers.  Users of course get to use
> useful software for free.
I agree here.  But we also have to remember the phrase "Don't bite the 
hand that feeds you."  If the developers are doing this for 'free' then 
we should be as gracious as we can when we find something offensive.  
This has driven more free-lance developers to 'pay jobs' where they are 
isolated from the 'common chaff' and don't have to listen to nor react 
to the grumblings of the 'masses'.  And much of Linux development is 
done by ordinary people on their 'free time'.  And many have found 'much 
better' things to do with it.
>
> If a developer needs deference as well, then they should
> distribute their software under license terms that require
> that.  Or restrict its distribution to people they know will
> not be critical.
No, we need to be critical, but not destructive.  There is a fine line 
between the two.  Complaining that feature 'A' does not work as 
designed/intended is just fine.  Keep it civil.  However, complaining 
that feature 'A' is a Piece of Foul-Smelling Dung that is not worthy of 
being on Planet Earth is neither and does not win friends in the 
development world.  That is most of what is being said about Gnome3.  It 
works, that we all can agree on.  It is NOT efficient, and most of us 
can agree on that too.  However, it does meet the needs of the target 
audience and that is what is the crux of the matter.  We, the 'all 
knowing' want our Gnome2.  Well we have to come up with a really good 
business case as to why.  Otherwise, the developers are going to put a 
massive amount of energy into Gnome3 and Gnome2 will go by the wayside.  
This is called 'Progress'.  And it stinkith madly.

> But if they want the benefits of widespread use, I think they
> need to understand that those benefits are going to come with
> some criticism as well as admiration and gratitude.
Again, criticism yes.  Slobbering at the mouth fanaticism no.  Remember, 
developers are PEOPLE first and foremost.  I go back to my 'Honey' 
statement.  Read through it.  This is how to give criticism per the 
'Leadership Guide'.  You point out what is good and right about the 
product and then you state "But it really does not meet the requirements 
of group XXX" and state what will meet their needs.  We the knowing 
don't need the features of Gnome3, but if you sit there and bad-mouth it 
all day, the developers are just going to say 'They are Grumpy and THEY 
WILL ADAPT to what we give them."  Same was said for Windows95.  Do we 
still have, to this day, a command line interface?  Yep, sure do and I 
use it everyday.  Why?  Because a group of folks approached Redmond with 
a 'really good reason to keep it'.  And it stuck.

> None of this should be taken as encouraging the dissing of
> developers or their work (and certainly not blatantly insulting
> or personal attacks), but rather discouraging the 10 times as
> many &quo

Re: Progress?

[James McKenzie]

On 8/1/11 11:46 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 1 August 2011 17:52, Stuart McGraw  wrote:
>> On 08/01/2011 03:31 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 04:14, Gilboa 
>>> Davaramailto:gilb...@gmail.com>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  ... Because if you were actually trying to be constructive, oh man, you
>>>  chose the wrong way to do it.
>>>
>>>
>>> I always applaud civilized and well-argumented rants. They are good lists 
>>> of annoyances (real or perceived) from end users, and people on the list 
>>> end up learning one thing or another as part of the exchange of opinions.
>> I agree.  I always thought it sad and counter-productive
>> that user complaints are not more welcomed as indicators
>> of where developers' view users' needs and users' view of
>> same, differ.  But I suppose that is ignoring the reality
>> of human nature and the desire to do what one wants, free
>> of critisism.
>>
> Possibly the key phrase there is "well argued". I didn't see any
> arguments, just a list of wishes. None of which I particularly
> empathise with in relation to F15. (I've have my problems with F15,
> but none of those.) As others have said the last two:
> * Give us back the assurance of never having to reboot.
This is a silly requirement.  There are always reasons to reboot.  What 
you mean, from what I gather, is don't make me reboot unless it is 
absolutely necessary (major kernel upgrade type stuff...)
>
> * Give us back the legendary reliability that was the hallmark of
> Linux and Fedora.
Who are you kidding here.  Fedora != reliability.  RedHat === 
reliability (I work with RH 5.6/RH 6 servers and they HAVE to be reliable.)
>
> Are simply misleading anyway.
>
>> If complaints were less suppressed here, maybe the situation
>> could even be turned into a positive...Fedora could perhaps
> Constructive criticism and suggestions are far more useful than just
> enumerating grievances.
Amen said the choir.  Bellyaching about something you cannot change is 
not going to change it and might just dig the heels in of the developers 
more.  I've been of that ilk for YEARS.  If you have something to say, 
say it, but coat it with HONEY.  Remember, the song in Mary Poppins "A 
Spoon Full of Sugar Make the Medicine Go Down"?  That is what we should 
be doing.  Something like this:
'Hey Gnome devs:  I know that you are trying to attract new Linux users 
by giving them an easy to use, hard to mess up interface in Gnome3.  
Good work and I think you've made great strides in that direction.  
However, in the process, you have made things more difficult for me, the 
experienced Gnome user.  Can you help me out by keeping Gnome2 alive 
until I learn all the tweaks and tricks for Gnome3?  That would be 
really nice on your part and it would give me a fall-back position in 
case something goes horribly wrong with my use of Gnome3."


> Many of the items originally listed were bugs,
> but I don't see bugzilla ids next to them. In any case, this complaint
> is hardly suppressed, it's been posted to everyone on the users list,
> is in the archive, will sit in my email account till I finally run out
> of server space and has generated about a dozen responses.
I'll agree here as well.  Bugzilla is YOUR FRIEND.  If they do nothing 
else than mark the bug 'Invalid' at least you told them in their forum 
that something is not right.  Do expect to see the following:
Worksasdesigned.  Yep, that's the direction the developers are moving 
and you are not going to change their minds.
INVALID.  Same as above, or there is no bug.
WORKSFORME.  You are just going to have to figure out what the 
developers wanted to do here or ask for help from them (or someone else 
who figured it out.)

I like the idea of a 'Survived Fedora 15' tee shirt.  Add that to the 
collection of miscues and broken software that I've worked with over 
thirty years.  What is happening here, happens to most folks who fiddle 
with 'bleeding edge' software.  Sometimes the edge is a little too 
'sharp' and we get 'cut'.  However, what we find will help the overall 
project and RedHat and the Linux community in general.

James

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Re: What are the 94 printable characters from the 128 characters of ASCII table?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/24/11 10:41 PM, Gregory Woodbury wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:52 AM, yudi v  > wrote:
>
> No it's not my homework, just curious.
> I looked at that link before posting.
> what confused me was the DEL key code. Usually the first 32
> characters are control characters but the wiki article clubs DEL
> with the control characters where as it's assigned the last code
> in the table. That's after the printable characters.
> That's why I posted here to get a confirmation.
>
>
> It's history. The DEL code was all holes punched in paper tape 
> (8-level) that was used to RUBOUT a character in error.
> Teletype and papertape systems were programmed to ignore the 0xFF 
> code.  When ASCII was formalized, the code for DEL
> was firmly in use as a control character and papertape was still in 
> use.  The various other "control" codes were used for various
> esoteric paper tape storage methodologies and later for 8-bit wide 
> magnetic tape systems.
>
And it was carried over to 8 bit tape as well as BAUDOT (sp) code tape.  
Great thing too.  It was also used on punch cards.

Yep, I was around in those days and did a lot with paper tape and an 
HP-3000 BASIC computer.

And one of the ways to create that code today is to use the SHIFT + 
BACKSPACE combination in PuTTY, at least the way I configure it.

James

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Re: More RAM not recognized -

[James McKenzie]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Alan Cox  wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:06:58 +0200
> Michael Schwendt  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:38:15 -0400, BG (Bob) wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >     This Dell DM4700 came with 2-256 mb strips, some time ago I added
>> >     2-1 gb strips for a total of 2.5 gb.
>> >
>> >     This morning I replaced the 256 mb strips with 2-2 gb for a total of
>> >     6. The bios setup screen shows 6 gb but apparently Linux is only
>> >     using half that amount, not much of an improvement!:
>>
>> Install the  kernel-PAE  package, then reboot to the PAE kernel and remove
>> the normal  kernel  package.
>
> I suspect a more fundamental problem. At least according to the Dell
> material the Dimension 4700 can only actually make fully use of 4GB
> (and in fact I imagine 3GB or 3.5GB in reality). It also needs a specific
> BIOS version to use 2Gb sticks, which presumably as it's detecting them
> and booting OK the BIOS is new enough.

If the CPU is not fully 64 bit, then it will only use (not see) 4GB of
memory.  After completing overhead actions this leaves something in
the range of 3.5 GB for the Operating System and other
applications

Adding more memory than this limit will not result in better
performance and may actually make matters worse.

James
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Re: What are the 94 printable characters from the 128 characters of ASCII table?

[James McKenzie]

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 9:52 PM, yudi v  wrote:
> No it's not my homework, just curious.
>
> I looked at that link before posting.
>
> what confused me was the DEL key code. Usually the first 32 characters are
> control characters but the wiki article clubs DEL with the control
> characters where as it's assigned the last code in the table. That's after
> the printable characters.
> That's why I posted here to get a confirmation.

The DEL character is considered a control character and is usually
created through a SHIFT+BACKSPACE.

James
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Re: installing picasa

[James McKenzie]

On 7/20/11 2:41 PM, Richard Shaw wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Robert Vargas  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can anyone help me.
>> I'am trying to install google picasa3.0 without wine.
>> I downloaded 3.0 and it opens for a second or two then disappers ?
> You didn't say what version of Fedora you're running but since at
> least F14, I've needed to copy wine-preloader from the current wine
> package into /opt/google/picasa/3.0/wine/bin/ and for internet
> connectivity (Picasa Web Albums) you also need to copy over
> "wininet.dll" into /opt/google/picasa/3.0/wine/lib/wine.
You will need to install Wine to use Picasa in Linux.

Reference Google and their implementation of Picasa.  Wine is also 
needed to run it on MacOSX.

James

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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/17/11 2:49 AM, Tim wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-07-16 at 11:23 +, JB wrote:
>> Many "what about" questions that would have to be asked !
> Like how do you keep on working when the cloud has evaporated?  (Your
> host goes out of business, or screws up their computers, or gets hacked,
> or...)
>
Most companies never think of this happening.  And it does.

James

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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/16/11 1:25 PM, JB wrote:
> Roelof 'Ben' Kusters  bentrein.com>  writes:
>
>> Change is gonna happen. And it's gonna destroy the status quo.
>> If you ask me, it's very urgent that that happens, because - next to a
>> whole new - perhaps Matrix like - approach to social interaction, it will
>> make room for other technologies too.
>> ...
> Regarding the social interaction that the "change" will bless us with ...
>
> Fedora users after SELinux, GNOME 3, and systemd treatment.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015034/Owling-new-planking-New-crouching-craze-springs-internet.html
They don't like it.  That is, again, their problem.  The days when Linux 
was inherently secure by obsurity are coming to an end.  What do you 
want do when that happens?  I, for one, want things to remain secure.  
SELinux is the ONLY approved method that I know of that can make an 
entire system secure as possible.

>
>> ...
>>> What about the privacy of those "clouds" ?
>> ...
> R. Stallman, "clouds", security, privacy, law.
>
> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/stallmans-cloud-concerns-fight-for-laws-
> or-against-technology/26503/
Until the United States Congress revokes the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act 
your information that leaves your computer is just about public 
knowledge to the U.S. Justice Department.  They have a 'secret' court 
system and can ask for a warrant for just about any reason at any time.  
Interesting how Constitutional lawyers have not brought challenges of 
all types against this overarching and power grabbing law.  In any case, 
we are the ones that have to remember what we say on the Internet is now 
a matter of public record and can be used against us by those who should 
be there to protect us.

James

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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/15/11 4:55 AM, Heinz Diehl wrote:
> I for myself have been a big Gnome fan over a lot of years, and have 
> been using it both at home and at work. I also have been a big LXDE 
> and xmonad fan, which runs on all of my laptops. Not a big thing for 
> me, I'll drop F15, and when F16 comes out, I'll stick with LXDE. It 
> simply works and does not want to convince some Wind*ws users that 
> Linux is the better choice... 
Heinz:

I agree with this.  This is why I keep on harping on Windows.  It has 
NOT worked properly since the 2.x days (and YES I do go back that far) 
and each version introduces more and more 'back flips' of things you 
have to do to get the job done.  I love the fact that the system has to 
be locked down so tight it squeaks to keep the 'bad guys' out.  Most of 
the systems I work with have not just one but TWO anti-virus systems.  
Every mail system in the world that touches a Windows system has to have 
anti-virus installed in case the system is infected, and so on.  The 
other thing that I love about Linux is that there is usually more than 
one way to get the job done.  Just is that the kernel developers have 
been infected with this 'got to include the kitchen sink' thinking as 
well.  Makes it hell when you have to build a custom kernel to get it be 
within the reference monitor version of things.

Anyway, let's see who sues who firstShould be interesting to see the 
hordes of lawyers going at each other.

James

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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/15/11 6:31 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-07-14 at 14:18 -0700, James McKenzie wrote:
> 
>>> I agree with you that Gnome2 is dead but someone has to explain why
>> a
>>> feature like holding the ALT key is necessary to power off in the
>>   User
>>> Menu. It seems to me there was room in the original list for a Power
>> off
>>> option.
>>>
>>> I think that there is general agreement among the majority of F15
>> users
>>> other than the Gnome developers that there are aspects of Gnome3
>> that
>>> are just plain screwy.
>> This is definitely not one of those things that should exist.  Maybe
>> the team feels that a new user would not understand what 'power off'
>> means.  I would find that insulting as a new Linux user coming from
>> the other world.  I think this is the wrong way to deal with this.  I
>> have not had the time to look at Gnome3 yet, but this makes me less
>> likely to do so from an engineering/quality assurance/user experience
>> view point.  BTW, do they have a 'do you really want to do this'
>> dialog or does Gnome3 go immediately into power down mode?
>>
>>
> You have the usual dialog about what you really want too do.
You know I expected that...

James

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Re: kernel bug

[James McKenzie]

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Reindl Harald  wrote:
>
>
> Am 15.07.2011 15:53, schrieb James McKenzie:
>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>>  wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 12:24 +0200, admin lewis wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> where I have to post for a kernel bug ?
>>>> thanks lewis.
>>>
>>> Instead posting it, report it to Bugzilla: http://bugzilla.redhat.com
>>
>> If it truly is a Kernel bug, should it not be reported to the Kernel
>> folks?  If it is a bug with one of the kernels built by the project,
>> yep it should be reported to the Fedora bugzilla
>
> AFAIK the first bug-report should be for the fedora-kernel
> because a) this are patched kernels and b) redhat is very
> active upstream
>
> last but not least fedora users will first search on
> the fedora-bugzilla and this way find your bugreport
>
Thank you for the that answer.  Thus the report goes to Fedora's Bugzilla.

James
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Re: kernel bug

[James McKenzie]

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 12:24 +0200, admin lewis wrote:
>> Hi,
>> where I have to post for a kernel bug ?
>> thanks lewis.
>
> Instead posting it, report it to Bugzilla: http://bugzilla.redhat.com

If it truly is a Kernel bug, should it not be reported to the Kernel
folks?  If it is a bug with one of the kernels built by the project,
yep it should be reported to the Fedora bugzilla.

James
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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/13/11 11:36 AM, Tim wrote:
> I see the sense in pushing the boundaries for high end computing.  I
> don't see the sense in making low end computing require high end
> hardware.  What's low end computing?  Email, web browsing, not playing
> video games.  It's just gross inefficiency to require a 4 GHz computer
> to do that.
>
As I go through this rather lengthy thread I find a few more things to 
comment about.

I agree with this comment.  You should not need a multi-core system just 
to read mail and browse the web.  Adding a high end desktop system to 
this is aggravating and a nuisance.  That is why some folks recommend 
the 'lower end' windowing systems that do the basic things.  I've seen 
people state that Gnome is needed to automount drives.  Never found that 
to be the case when I was running RedHat 7/8 or 9.  However, I could be 
totally incorrect.  The point is that we should not saddle folks with a 
high end front end if their computer just cannot provide the 
horsepower.  This also extends to the Kernel and other items.  I don't 
have a system with 1 GB of memory, nor will it ever get there for 
running Linux.  It is 12 years old and still runs.  That is what some 
folks want.  They don't want to add to the bottom lines of the likes of 
Dell/Gateway/HP and of course, indirectly, Microsoft.  Now, what can I 
use on an IBM Thinkpad A22p/PIII 833/384MB/60GB hard drive for a front 
end?  Sounds like GNOME3 and KDE4 are out of the question if I want any 
sort of functionality with the system.

James


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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On 7/14/11 3:38 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 07/14/2011 09:53 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik   
>> wrote:
>>> Tim wrote:
>> Now, back to what I said earlier.  YOU, the Linux user, have a CHOICE
>> of desktop/window managers.
>> YOU should avail yourself of this
>> feature.  If you want to 'resurect' Gnome2, you are more than welcome
>> to.  It is after all, GPL/LGPL licensed and you should be free to spin
>> off whatever you want.  However, do not expect the Gnome support team
>> to help in your efforts.
> YOU, the Gnome devs, should learn that you have turned the product we
> loved into an entirely different product and are not addressing us -
> your users' demands - anymore.
If you even THINK that the current breed of developers CARE about what 
the user base wants/needs, you are living in dream-land.  I work with a 
product that had a HUGE installed user base that ran nothing but SUN 
Solaris.  The company decided that they would go after a non-existent 
Windows Server user base.  They lost about 1/2 of their user base and 
they are not coming back, ever.  However, this company now has MORE 
installed copies of their product with massive licensing/support 
income.  I stand by what I said based on PAST experience.  You can 
leave, the developers don't care.  They want the 5% that say "I don't 
like  operating system and would move to Linux but it is so damn 
hard to work with".  That will definitely increase the number of users 
that will work with their product.  They don't want to re-learn how to 
work their computers.  I know that WE don't like that, but we now know 
who is the target audience.  And like you, I'm upset that Gnome2 was 
dropped like a rock.  That means one less OPTION to select.  However, 
the developers might feel they can only support one windowing system.

James

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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Aaron Konstam  wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-07-14 at 12:53 -0700, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik  
>> wrote:
>> > Tim wrote:
>> >> I don't...  They all (Linux too) seem to be heading for being some sort
>> >> of iPad clone.  Being all the more inappropriate for trying to use a
>> >> touch-screen type of interface, when you don't have a touch-screen.
>> >>
>> >> They're also being painful as far as multi-tasking is concerned.
>> >> Wacking great big oversized GUIs for things, so you can't use two or
>> >> three applications side by side.  You have to window shuffle.
>> >>
>> >> Starting things from the icons on the desktop background, so you have to
>> >> get your windows out of the way to get to the icons.  Having to search
>> >> for your program, because there isn't a structured menu (either one
>> >> that's categorised, or one that doesn't keep re-arranging the order that
>> >> things and jumbled together).
>> >
>> > This is exactly one what I think about Gnome 3 - maybe good for
>> > PADs, but tedious for power desktop users with many installed and
>> > simultaneously running apps.
>> > Golden Gnome 2!
>>
>> Gnome 2 is now offically dead.
>>
>> Now, back to what I said earlier.  YOU, the Linux user, have a CHOICE
>> of desktop/window managers.  YOU should avail yourself of this
>> feature.  If you want to 'resurect' Gnome2, you are more than welcome
>> to.  It is after all, GPL/LGPL licensed and you should be free to spin
>> off whatever you want.  However, do not expect the Gnome support team
>> to help in your efforts.
>>
>> For all concerned:  The goal behind some of the moves you folks see in
>> desktops is to move more users to Linux vice 'that other stuff'.  This
>> means making things familiar to those folks.  I really would like for
>> the old projects to be continued for us older 'power users' and new
>> desktops to be introduced for those who need/desire those features.  I
>> did not like what happened when Windows95 introduced the 'Start'
>> button feature.  Over the years, I grew used to this.  I still think
>> that the idea is 'stupid' but I now understand why this happened.  And
>> I was and remain a command line power guru.
>>
>> James McKenzie
>
> I agree with you that Gnome2 is dead but someone has to explain why a
> feature like holding the ALT key is necessary to power off in the  User
> Menu. It seems to me there was room in the original list for a Power off
> option.
>
> I think that there is general agreement among the majority of F15 users
> other than the Gnome developers that there are aspects of Gnome3 that
> are just plain screwy.
This is definitely not one of those things that should exist.  Maybe
the team feels that a new user would not understand what 'power off'
means.  I would find that insulting as a new Linux user coming from
the other world.  I think this is the wrong way to deal with this.  I
have not had the time to look at Gnome3 yet, but this makes me less
likely to do so from an engineering/quality assurance/user experience
view point.  BTW, do they have a 'do you really want to do this'
dialog or does Gnome3 go immediately into power down mode?

James
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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik  wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>> I don't...  They all (Linux too) seem to be heading for being some sort
>> of iPad clone.  Being all the more inappropriate for trying to use a
>> touch-screen type of interface, when you don't have a touch-screen.
>>
>> They're also being painful as far as multi-tasking is concerned.
>> Wacking great big oversized GUIs for things, so you can't use two or
>> three applications side by side.  You have to window shuffle.
>>
>> Starting things from the icons on the desktop background, so you have to
>> get your windows out of the way to get to the icons.  Having to search
>> for your program, because there isn't a structured menu (either one
>> that's categorised, or one that doesn't keep re-arranging the order that
>> things and jumbled together).
>
> This is exactly one what I think about Gnome 3 - maybe good for
> PADs, but tedious for power desktop users with many installed and
> simultaneously running apps.
> Golden Gnome 2!

Gnome 2 is now offically dead.

Now, back to what I said earlier.  YOU, the Linux user, have a CHOICE
of desktop/window managers.  YOU should avail yourself of this
feature.  If you want to 'resurect' Gnome2, you are more than welcome
to.  It is after all, GPL/LGPL licensed and you should be free to spin
off whatever you want.  However, do not expect the Gnome support team
to help in your efforts.

For all concerned:  The goal behind some of the moves you folks see in
desktops is to move more users to Linux vice 'that other stuff'.  This
means making things familiar to those folks.  I really would like for
the old projects to be continued for us older 'power users' and new
desktops to be introduced for those who need/desire those features.  I
did not like what happened when Windows95 introduced the 'Start'
button feature.  Over the years, I grew used to this.  I still think
that the idea is 'stupid' but I now understand why this happened.  And
I was and remain a command line power guru.

James McKenzie
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Re: Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Tim  wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 09:54 -0500, Mike Chambers sent:
>> Without intending a flamewar
>
> Hmmph...  Then goes ahead and does something that's likely to do so.
> Statements, like that, are similar to:  With all due respect...
> And:  I don't mean to be critical, but...
>
> Anyway, this argument has already been done and dusted on this list,
> about two weeks ago.
>
One, as a Linux user you have a VARIETY of desktops to select from.
GNOME is just one of them.
Two, Windows7/8 is a clone of the MacOSX Aqua desktop's look and feel.
 Apple has agreed not to sue Microsoft because of an earlier agreement
and U.S. Federal court case.
Three.  Who actually cares what anyone thinks at this point about
Windows.  This is a Linux distribution mailing list.  Let's keep it
that way.

In other words, let's close the subject and let this thing die.  (I
know, eat your own words, but that is a summation of the previous
discusssion.)

James
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Re: Need Support For Hardware & Live Usb Issue + Bugs version 0.1

[James McKenzie]

On 7/8/11 3:19 PM, Navdeep Singh Sidhu wrote:
>
> I have Dell Xps 15 with config:-
> 8 Gb RAM
> 2nd generation i7 processor 2.2 GHz Boost 2.0 upto 3.30 GHz
> Dual Graphics Card Intel HD 3000 & nvidia geforce GT 540M with Optimus 
> Techonology
> 720 GB hardisk
> Motherboard Dell XPS system L502X
> Intel centrino 6230 Network Card with BT 3.0
>
> I have installed 2 linux distro on my External USB portable seagate 
> 500 GB hardisk fedora 15 & Ubuntu 11.04. i have installed these distro 
> by using HP pavilion dv 2762 tx with config:-
>
> Core2duo 1.83Ghz
> 2Gb ram
> nvidia geforce 9600m graphics card
>
> Both these distro works with all other older laptops Like HP, Dell 
> studio  1 yr old config , Compaq 5 yr old, but not on my Dell XPS 15.
> To check my laptops hardware compatibility i used a Ubuntu 10.10 live 
> Cd. it works fine . i use this cd as a live media but when i tried 
> same Ubuntu 10.10 on live usb it gives blank screen or error which i 
> mentioned below.
> To check that my iso file damaged or my download has been corrupted or 
> not, i tried different distros with different desktop enviornment like 
> Gnome,KDE,Xcfe & Lxde. i tried fedora 15, ubuntu 10.10, ubuntu 10.04, 
> ubuntu 11.04. slackware,eduboss each with avail flavors.
> But all i have tried gives almost same error with each distro. i don't 
> know what is this some kind of bug or lack of support with dell 
> chipset (hardware). if live cd boots well then i think there is 
> nohardware compatibility issue with linux. I think this is lack of usb 
> support because may be Linux has no support until now for latest 
> motherboards or hardware architects.
>
> These are the errors i got with different distros. i am not able to 
> figure out what's going on bcz i'm rookie in Linux programming. But if 
> anyone can do it, plz help me i haven't run my linux from previous 1 
> and half month and i'm a linux addicted.
> starting from Fedora 15 gnome(almost same for kde except starting numbers)
>
> error:-
> [   2.571729] [drm:intel_drm_platform_mux_info] *ERROR* MUX INFO CALL 
> FAILED
> [   2.571847] [drm:intel_drm_platform_mux_info] *ERROR* MUX INFO CALL 
> FAILED
>
> Dropping to debug shell.
> sh.can't acess tty:job control off
> dracut:/#
>
>
> Fedora 15 LXDE
>
> [   2.514402] nonveau :01:00.0:invalid ROM contents
> [   2.614971] [drm] nonveau :01:00.0:POINTER to BIT load vol table 
> invalid
> [   2.639331] [drm] nonveau :01:00.0:0xd518:12cwr fail: -6
> [   2.75332] [drm] nonveau :01:00.0:PGRAPH:unsupported 
> chipset,please report!
> [   2.753646] [drm] nonveau :01:00.0:PGRAPH:unknown config:2/0/0/0,1
> [   2.755342] [drm] nonveau :01:00.0: failed to load fuc 409 d
>
>
> [   2.919340] [drm:intel_drm_platform_mux_info] *ERROR* MUX INFO CALL 
> FAILED
> [   2.919447] [drm:intel_drm_platform_mux_info] *ERROR* MUX INFO CALL 
> FAILED
>
> Dropping to debug shell.
> sh.can't acess tty:job control off
> dracut:/#
>
>
> Fedora 15 XCFE
>
> [   2.563563] [drm:intel_drm_platform_mux_info] *ERROR* MUX INFO CALL 
> FAILED
> [   2.563680] [drm:intel_drm_platform_mux_info] *ERROR* MUX INFO CALL 
> FAILED
What kind and model of video card is installed in the system you are 
creating the boot USB from and what is in the Dell?  Looks like a video 
mismatch AND a video card NOT supported by the open source ATI video driver.

James McKenzie

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Re: Fedora Security and the Uverse 3800HGV-B router

[James McKenzie]

On 7/1/11 9:14 PM, JD wrote:
>
> Common people! JAVASCRIPT being executed by your
> browser on  your system is a HUGE WIDE OPEN SECURITY HOLE!!!
>
You do have the option of turning it off, you know.  That is one thing 
every security expert knows about and disables in a major way.

James


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Re: f15 sync slow after couple of days

[James McKenzie]

On 7/1/11 4:06 PM, Rich Emberson wrote:
> When I first start my machine,  a sync takes less than  a second
> and compiling a small Java project takse 34 seconds.
>
> After running for two days, a sync takes 25 to 30 seconds (and running
> sync just after a sync still takes that long)
> and compiling the same Java project takes 5 to 8 minutes.
>
> Where do I look to try and find out what is slowing stuff down?
>
How much memory do you have and are you suffering from a memory 'leak' 
where memory is being taken and not released.  You might want to use 
'top' or a similar program to see who is using memory and how much.

James

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Re: About Fedora bugs

[James McKenzie]

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:
> On 07/01/2011 08:20 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> how is "a large portion of the user base" qualified?
>>
>> there are so many peopole out there which never say anything and affected
>> from bad things, so you can't count them really - but they are there!
>>
>> i see this often in my job where people say "oh yes this does not work since
>> a year" and had never reported, so i can only guess how many others also 
>> affected
>> and never did say a word
>>
>> if there is a bug it should be fixed

In theory, yes, in the 'real world' maybe.
>
> Ideally yes but no distribution has the resources to fix all the bugs
> reported.  That will remain the reality unless there is a influx of a
> lot more people willing to contribute and help.
>
It depends on where the 'bug' exists.  If it is a packaging bug that
is specific to Fedora, the original packager should get to work on
this first.  If they cannot figure it out, then they should be the
one(s) to request additional assistance.
If the bug is upstream and NOT a Fedora/RedHat product, then the
upstream folks should get to work on it first and then they should
request assistance.
If the bug IS a Fedora/RedHat bug, then RedHat should be looking at
this, and if necessary, requesting assistance from the community.
If the bug is NEW and the location cannot be determined, then WE the
community should be assisting in locating and if necessary
troubleshooting why the problem exists.  However the problem should
exist in one of the three areas above and handed off with all gathered
information to the appropriate people.

Now, if a person wants to help design/build/code/etc. then they should
be looking and asking one of the three categories above if they can or
should assist.  Big mistake is diving in without asking first.  Been
there, done that.

Do not make the assumption, as corrected above, that everything in
Fedora is under Fedora's control.  There are many 'upstream' projects
that are separate from the project.  I work with one of them

James McKenzie
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Re: gnu linux update question

[James McKenzie]

On 6/28/11 8:24 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 06/29/2011 11:18 AM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> I was referring to /proc/  when that user did not 'own' the
>> process.  I'm under the impression that this is/was part of the security
>> 'features' of Fedora Linux.  I don't have a RH box to look at and verify.
> Right  Understand now
>
> But, as poc has indicated, many of those owned even by root are readable.
Interesting.  I have issues with that as a security professional but 
then again ps -ef is also available and 'shows all'.

James

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Re: gnu linux update question

[James McKenzie]

On 6/28/11 8:04 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 06/29/2011 10:51 AM, Genes MailLists wrote:
>> On 06/28/2011 10:13 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>>> On 6/28/11 6:37 PM, Genes MailLists wrote:
>>>> Works fine as root.
>>> Usually ordinary users are prohibited from accessing /proc/
>>> from what I remember.  That is why root works and joe-blow does not.
>>>
>>> James McKenzie
>>>
>> I'm totally fine with it - but seems to work for some - curiosity now.
>>
>> I wonder if those for whom it works are in group wheel or something -
>> perhaps as my firstboot failed when systemd got its knickers in a twist
>> with the luks passwords and firstboot and i915 graphics somehow first
>> boot was a black screen .. dont recall now if f15 or f16 puts first user
>> in wheel group - and if that matters at all.
>>
>>
> I took a quick read of the python script
>
> It would seem that if one is not running as root it will check the PIDs
> of the user invoking the command to see if any of those processes need
> to be restarted.
>
> I ran it as a user running KDEand it took several seconds to
> completelots of PIDs for that user.
>
> I ran it as a user that had ssh'd in.  Completed very fastonly a
> couple of PIDs.
>
> Of course  an ordinary user can access many /proc/   
>
> cat /proc/cpuinfo   being one of many
I was referring to /proc/ when that user did not 'own' the 
process.  I'm under the impression that this is/was part of the security 
'features' of Fedora Linux.  I don't have a RH box to look at and verify.

Of course, I have been known to be incorrect and if I am in this case, 
something else is happening then.

James

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Re: gnu linux update question

[James McKenzie]

On 6/28/11 6:37 PM, Genes MailLists wrote:
> On 06/28/2011 08:17 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
>>>Does this work as regular user for you? For me -  selinux makes it crash.
>> run ausearch -m avc -ts recent
>>
>> And see if it generates any output.
>>
>> SELinux error messages are written to /var/log/audit/audit.log
>>
>>
>>
>Thanks Dan - Nope no selinux logs on this one best I can tell. If I
> run as user I get:
>
>   $ needs-restarting
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "/usr/bin/needs-restarting", line 137, in
>  sys.exit(main(sys.argv))
>File "/usr/bin/needs-restarting", line 117, in main
>  for fn in get_open_files(pid):
>File "/usr/bin/needs-restarting", line 84, in get_open_files
>  for line in maps.readlines():
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
>
>
>Its odd - line 117 in needs-restarting is this fragment:
>
>
>  for pid in return_running_pids(uid=myuid):
>  try:
>  pid_start = os.stat('/proc/' + pid)[stat.ST_CTIME]
>  except OSError, e:
>  continue
>  found_match = False
>  for fn in get_open_files(pid):
>
> Works fine as root.
Usually ordinary users are prohibited from accessing /proc/ 
from what I remember.  That is why root works and joe-blow does not.

James McKenzie

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Re: [OT] Spelling... [was: Re: where is gnomebreakpad]

[James McKenzie]

On 6/26/11 7:01 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> Sure, but it's not possible to use them simultaneously, or have the machine
> decide which dictionary should be used for a given paragraph and switch to
> that one. Manually switching them is a pain, and just not worth the effort if 
> I
> am mixing several languages in the same post.
>
> It is also impossible for the machine to know whether it is correct to say
> color or colour in the given context. And there are people who will bicker
> about it if I don't get it right (where the definition of "right" differs in 
> US
> and UK, for example). ;-) Spell-checker is next to useless in these cases,
> again unless I manually select the proper dictionary.
If someone gets upset about this, they have way too much time on their 
hands.  The 'or' versus 'our' is a long drawn out battle that most 
people decide to leave alone.

I'm wondering if it will become, sometime in the future, possible to 
write an article in OpenOffice like I do in Microsoft Word where I can 
select the dictionary for only one word, if needed, and change 
languages.  Not that I would try to embed Cyrillic into a Latin document 
just to see what would happen.

BTW, someone decided that French was the language to use, and we are an 
English only shop.  Led to interesting spelling 'errors' which were not.

James McKenzie

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Re: cannot boot to F14

[James McKenzie]

On 6/26/11 7:00 PM, jackson byers wrote:
> >
> >>I tried adding
> >>  chainloader +1
> >>to grub.conf .
> >>
> >> makeactiveWhen I tried to use it, I got
> >>Error 18   : Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS.
>
> >You need to get a new(er) BIOS as the physical location where F14 is 
> located cannot be >used for booting by your current BIOS.  Nothing can 
> be done about this by Fedora, it is a >physical limitation of your 
> system.  Maybe putting a /boot partition below where your BIOS >can 
> boot from could help (but I don't know if this is possible with your 
> current system >configuration.)
>
> >>Could the problem with using my boot partition with my
> >>Could I fix that by editing my F14's /etc/mtab ?
>
> >Neither of these options will help.  Again, this is NOT a Fedora 
> issue.  Some BIOS's are old >appened in the history of PC 
> configurations (I remember the old 32MB boot issue...)
>
> >James McKenzie
>
> James,
> You came in late to this thread.
>
> In fact his problem was solved by
> 1)redoing his bootloader
>  root (hd1,8)
> setup (hd1,8)
> 2) copying his f14 stanza to his f13 grub.conf
>
> Your analysis may be correct re error 18,
> but that was when the OP was still badly floundering.
>
Thank you.  I try to stay out of discussions like this, but I've seen 
where folks installing 1TB drives cannot boot off of them when the 
physical number of cylinders is larger than their BIOS can handle.  At 
least this problem was solved in a good manner.

James McKenzie

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Re: where is gnomebreakpad

[James McKenzie]

On 6/26/11 4:47 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 06/26/2011 10:16 AM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> (and both of you are very valuable to the project and you both
>> have brought in a great deal of good information, now folks may question
>> it.)
> And, because of the way I've been flamed for something I didn't do, I'm
> seriously considering leaving this list.
Joe:

I did not see where you were a Grammar Nazi, and I have not considered 
you one.  And you do bring alot of knowledge to this list.  I would 
appreciate it if you chalk this one up to the eventual stupidity that 
some folks demonstrate, including myself, every once in a while.  In 
other words: Please stay.

Thank you.

James McKenzie

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Re: cannot boot to F14

[James McKenzie]

On 6/24/11 3:55 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011, jackson byers wrote:
>>
>>>> I messed up installing F14 and don't know how to fix it.
>>>> What I had planned to do was reuse a /boot partition and put the rest
>>>> in a single new partition I had already created for the purpose.
>>>> I forgot about the /boot partition and I think I told it the
>>>> wrong thing when it asked where to put the bootloader.confusing "reuse
>>> # grub>
>>> root (hd1,8)
>>> setup (hd1,8)
>>> quit
>>>
>>> this should install the bootloader on 1st sector of sdb9
>>> reboot,
>>> see if f14 boots
>> Alas, F13.
>> I suspect that the problem might be that putting a bootloader
>> in (hd1,8) doesn't make the startup code (BIOS?) use it.
> I tried adding
> title chain14
>   rootnoverify (hd1,8)
>   makeactive
>   chainloader +1
> to grub.conf .
> When I tried to use it, I got
> Error 18   : Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS.
>
You need to get a new(er) BIOS as the physical location where F14 is 
located cannot be used for booting by your current BIOS.  Nothing can be 
done about this by Fedora, it is a physical limitation of your system.  
Maybe putting a /boot partition below where your BIOS can boot from 
could help (but I don't know if this is possible with your current 
system configuration.)

> Could the problem with using my boot partition with my
> F14 be that my F14 knows something else is /boot ?
> Could I fix that by editing my F14's /etc/mtab ?
>
Neither of these options will help.  Again, this is NOT a Fedora issue.  
Some BIOS's are old enough that they cannot boot from newer media.  And 
this is not the first time this has happened in the history of PC 
configurations (I remember the old 32MB boot issue...)

James McKenzie

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Re: where is gnomebreakpad

[James McKenzie]

On 6/26/11 10:07 AM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2011, Ed Greshko wrote to Joe Zeff and us:
>
>> I don't think I ever accused you of anything. I simply took issue with
>> your unsolicited suggestion that I should proofread my messages. If I
>> recall correctly you indicated that reading posts with poor English gave
>> you pain.
> There might be a polite way to say proofread next time,
> but I don't know it.
>
It's called 'taking it off list' and that is where MOST of this thread 
should have been.  Hey folks, if someone's posting bothers you, take it 
'off list'.  If someone publicly accuses you of something you did not 
do, then rebuff and leave it at that.

As to the two children that kept this going, corners please and next 
time, take it out of the public view.  It only makes you look foolish to 
have a 'did to, did not' kind of fight and it diminishes your value to 
others (and both of you are very valuable to the project and you both 
have brought in a great deal of good information, now folks may question 
it.)

Very respectfully,

James McKenzie

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Re: Firefox 5.0

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Trever L. Adams
 wrote:
> On 06/22/2011 12:00 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>>
>> It appears that Mozilla upstream is going to force our hand here.
>> Apparently, Mozilla declared Firefox 4 EOL alongside the release of
>> Firefox 5 [1].
>>
>> This is going to cause a lot of pain, especially with regards to
>> extensions.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9217837/Mozilla_retires_Firefox_4_from_security_support
> I think it also means that the only choice is for F14 to also go FF5. I
> was just reading that FF5 is considered the security update of FF4, so ...
>
Just to note, there was only one update for FF4, 4.0.1.  Something
like what happened with MS-DOS (for those who remember, DOS 4.0 bombed
a bunch of hard drives, actually destroyed a bunch of data.)

BTW, FF5 does look and feel 'better' than FF4.

James McKenzie
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Re: sound problem

[James McKenzie]

On 6/19/11 8:50 AM, François Patte wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Bonjour,
>
> I have a problem with my sound card on my laptop (Dell latitude E6400).
Get in contact with Dell and ask that they replace the Laptop Speaker 
panel part.  This is a known problem with Dell E6400s (I had one do the 
same thing with WindowsVista 64 bit.)

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/14/11 10:20 AM, Jon Ingason wrote:
> 2011-06-13 04:26, James McKenzie skrev:
> And before MacOX, there was Lisa and before Lisa was Star ;-)
>
> But that was lng ago!
>
Lisa bombed, it was the first major failure for Apple.  Never heard of 
Star (and if it was anything like Lisa, I don't want to.)

James McKenzie


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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Marcus D. Leech  wrote:
>> mount point and the desktop icon (on my F13/GNOME system).
>> The problem continued to exist when I went to F14, and is still there
>> now that I've switched to XFCE.  My main complaint isn't that it doesn't
>> work, it's that the USB devs refused to even admit that their software
>> wasn't reporting the label, even when presented with evidence directly
>> contradicting their claim.  Yes, it's up to the DE to make use of the
>> label but claiming that it's reported when it is not, isn't the best way
>> to go, IMO.
> There are four items that are inherent to a USB Flash drive, regardless
> of what type of filesystem you've formatted it for:
>
> P:  Vendor=0781 ProdID=5406 Rev= 0.10
> S:  Manufacturer=SanDisk
> S:  Product=U3 Cruzer Micro
On my XP installation this is EXACTLY what shows up when I plug in my
USB drive.  No other labels but what the device is.

Some folks would love to see "Mikey's USB Thingie" but that is not
what is written in hardware at the first glance and is only picked up
if a device specific driver is loaded.

James McKenzie
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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Phil Savoie  wrote:
> On 12/06/2011 11:12 PM, David wrote:
>> I see. Now I understand you completely. Since Linux is user supported. I
>> am sure that the developers would welcome any tutorials that you would
>> write and provide. That is the way the Linux works.
>>
>> As for "the folks in Redmond"? I doubt that they will loose a minute of
>> sleep over your efforts unless you really, really put forth major
>> efforts in this respect.
>>
>> Have a good day.
>
> James,
>
> No point in arguing with this guy.
I'm not going to argue with him.  I'm pointing out why Linux is not
the rage on the desktop.  I know that RH folks lurk here and I will
respond to their messages in a civil and clear tone.  Remember, some
folks need training wheels on their bikes.  Some just crash until they
get it right (I was the latter.)  Some have their parents hold their
hands/seat.  Computer users are cut from the same silk and thus I am
one of those that charges ahead and if the system crashes, I rebuild
and start over...
James
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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 8:15 PM, Genes MailLists wrote:
> On 06/12/2011 10:26 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>
>> Marketing is what is it is all about.  You could make the best gizmo in
>> the business, but if you cannot get folks to use it, you just wasted
>> your time and alot of someone else's money.   This happened with OS/2
>> when Microsoft introduced WindowsNT 3.1.
>Marketing is great - we all agree - problem is there is a different
> between marketing a useful, clean wonderful tool and a smelly pile of
> annoying poo ...
>
>From user feedback so far - F15 with Gnome shell and quite a bit of
> brokenness associated with the introduction of systemd may not be (is
> not?) ready to market.
I will agree that systemd is seriously broken.  I don't get the 
connection between it and the UI, Gnome3.  Does Gnome3 need/desire 
systemd?  If so, then it is not ready for market.  It is not nice to 
force users to go from one broken OS to another...(Vista 
non-withstanding, it is a pile of concentrated dog-poo of the ME variety 
only higher.)
>Change for change sake, of course, is a slow path to where you were
> last time you turned around ... :-)
Change should be a good thing, and well thought out and superbly 
executed.  And Fedora is and will remain a testing ground for 'things 
RedHat, in the future'.  I'm glad that this was caught at this level and 
not by production users.

>I do have high hopes for F16 - tho many seem to fear that systemd may
> not get the love it needs for such a core component - I am hopeful it
> will ...
And if it is needed, it must receive much 'love' from what I read here 
in the User's list.

I don't expect to see much from Fedora 15 for at least another year or 
so.  Maybe Gnome3 will be added to RHEL 6.2, but that is a ways off.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:42 PM, David wrote:
> On 6/12/2011 10:31 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 6/12/11 7:17 PM, David wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2011 10:06 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/11 6:36 PM, David wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2011 8:48 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:20:39 -0700
>>>>>> James McKenzie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need
>>>>>>> to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out
>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>> When you run Windows for the first time, annoying tutorials badger
>>>>>> you incessantly about learning how to use the Windows interface
>>>>>> and/or adapting to changes made in the new version of Windows.
>>>>> FUD
>>>> No, truth. When you run Linux for the first time, does it have a
>>>> built-in take you step by step tutorial?  I've never been 'badgered' by
>>>> one.  Remember, the key is Lowest Common Denominator (LCD).  If you hit
>>>> that, then you've pissed off the upper levels, but as one I just dismiss
>>>> it and go about my business.  This is one of those areas that Linux
>>>> desktop designers could learn from their Windows and MacOSX
>>>> counterparts.  I've been down this road before and I don't want the
>>>> flames that are coming back.  Not everyone is a 'genius' and not
>>>> everyone can understand what each icon does.  Remember, Einstein could
>>>> not make change nor did he understand the monetary system, but he still
>>>> managed to buy his groceries, when they were not bought for him.
>>> I said FUD instead of bull$hit because Windows does not do what he said.
>>> So what are you trying to say?
>> I've installed XP, Vista and Seven.  All of them start with a tour of
>> the operating system.  Even Windows Server 2003/2008 has the "Manage
>> Your Server" window that comes up.  When I start XP/Vista/Seven for the
>> first time, there is a 'Would You Like to Take a Tour" item that shows
>> up.  Does Linux do the same thing?  Last time I started up Gnome, it did
>> not.  That is what I'm trying to say.  My Mac had a very nice
>> introduction and really fancy setup system.  I did not find such a thing
>> when I installed Fedora 13 on my Thinkpad.  Remember, the system has to
>> be really easy.  Linux has not.  The phrase "Linux has friends, it is
>> just picky as to who they are" is not where we need to be if Linux is to
>> grow on the Workstation desktop.  I know there are folks who don't care,
>> but there are only so many servers in the world and Linux is presently
>> the winner in that category but is slipping.
>>
>> James McKenzie
>>
>
> James. Now I am confused. Are you saying that Linux *should* have a
> tutorial?
>
> Linux has always been the geek OS. And the directions have always been
> written in Geek for Geeks.
>
Yes.  To grow the desktop, we need to start embracing the common user.  
There are a limited number of geeks and they cannot sustain Linux.  Not 
at a financially viable level...

I would love to see the folks in Redmond squirm.  Windows has so many 
problems that it should be banned from anywhere where reliability is 
key.  Go to your local hospital and see what they are running.  It 
scares me that they are running WindowsXP/Vista/Seven on the front end 
and WindowsServer on the back.  I would, from a security viewpoint, love 
to see this replaced with Linux and running a secure UI program.  This 
is easier on Linux than Windows...

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:37 PM, David wrote:
> On 6/12/2011 10:22 PM, John Aldrich wrote:
>> On Sun June 12 2011, David wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2011 8:48 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:20:39 -0700
>>>>
>>>> James McKenzie wrote:
>>>>> We need
>>>>> to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out
>>>>> there.
>>>> When you run Windows for the first time, annoying tutorials badger
>>>> you incessantly about learning how to use the Windows interface
>>>> and/or adapting to changes made in the new version of Windows.
>>> FUD
>>>
>> I disagree. He makes a very valid point. New installs of Windows always
>> come up with a tutorial and "helper" app. I have never seen anything like
>> that on Linux. It's as if the developers are too busy with programming the
>> next iteration of their favorite app to be bothered with documentation, and
>> NO ONE has yet come up with a grand-unified "help" document (trust me "man
>> $appname" doesn't always work...)
>
> Really? Seriously?
>
> What "New installs of Windows" of Windows are you referring to? None
> that I have seen do this. Version numbers of Windows? Dates of install?
> I can't think of any.
WindowsXP and recently Windows Vista installed from media that was 
produced by Microsoft that you can buy at places like Staples.com.  The 
operating system even gives you at tour when you start it.  And if you 
need to go back to it, it's there for you.

Now for the programs, there is this thing called pushing the F1 key.  It 
brings up a help system.  I know that OpenOffice.org's was a joke and 
most other Linux programs do this thing called 'read the man page'.  
Interesting.  Get the man page for something like tar.  Simple program 
and the document is confusing at best.  Love info pages too.  Would love 
to see something like hypertexted documentation.

And you can purchase video tapes for Windows and Office, if you really, 
really need them.  Office's help is on-line.  Still have to find that 
for OpenOffice.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:30 PM, Stephen Bunn wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:22 AM, John Aldrich  <mailto:jmaldr...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> On Sun June 12 2011, David wrote:
> > On 6/12/2011 8:48 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > > On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:20:39 -0700
> > >
> > > When you run Windows for the first time, annoying tutorials badger
> > > you incessantly about learning how to use the Windows interface
> > > and/or adapting to changes made in the new version of Windows.
> >
> > FUD
> >
> I disagree. He makes a very valid point. New installs of Windows
> always
> come up with a tutorial and "helper" app. I have never seen
> anything like
> that on Linux. It's as if the developers are too busy with
> programming the
> next iteration of their favorite app to be bothered with
> documentation, and
> NO ONE has yet come up with a grand-unified "help" document (trust
> me "man
> $appname" doesn't always work...)
>
>
> Seriously? You aren't really trying to argue the point that windows 
> has better documentation than GNU/Linux.
>
> That and the *goal* shouldn't be who has the most users.  The *goal* 
> should be a desktop that does what the user base needs it to do.
So, we should deliberately make the system hard to use so that people 
like you can 'rub their noses in it'.  No.  Sorry, but the user base 
needs to grow.  People are tired of using poor quality software written 
to a broken OS.  However, Linux is appropriately though of as being a 
'genius' operating system.  Until we move it from that position, people 
will 'stay away'.  Ubuntu was an attempt to move Linux to the masses.  
Given the current state of the UI, this became harder and harder.  With 
a new UI, this may become easier.  And for those of us 'power users' the 
bells and whistles are still there. You just have to change the way you 
do things.  And on a Mac, root still exists, it just takes six steps to 
enable it.

> The GNU/Linux user communities need to stop this nonsense of trying to 
> compete with Windows and/or OS X.
Then what should they do?  Stand around the coffee machine saying "I 
have this wonderful Operating System, but no one will use it because the 
UI sucks?"  No.  They need to move forward and develop a UI that 
EVERYONE can understand and use.
> Instead we should be focusing on building an operating system that 
> works for the existing user base. If its good other people *will* 
> learn it.
If that were true, everyone would be using OS/2 today.  For its time, it 
was the best operating system.  It was bullet-proof and was used in both 
the banking and nuclear industries.  Tell me of one bank today that is 
using it on their teller machines?  Bank of America was the last major 
bank that received an exception from the U.S. Federal Reserve to put 
WindowsXP on their teller machines.  You can build the best mousetrap, 
but I'll still go to the local hardware store and buy a mousetrap that 
was patented in the 1800s and is made by the Victory Trap company.  
Why?  Because the damn thing works.  And that is what a majority of the 
Desktop users want.  They don't care if they have to hit the 'Big Red 
Button' two or three times a day.  When the thing starts, they want to 
use it.  Not play with it all day.  And that is why Windows sells and 
Linux doesn't.  Sad to say, but Gnome3 may be the step in the right 
direction for the 'common ordinary user'.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:20 PM, JD wrote:
> On 06/12/2011 03:08 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> It's been a nice ride these past 7 years with Fedora as my primary OS, but 
>> it's time to move on.  My current and future needs are for a support life 
>> measured in years, not months.  And CentOS and Scientific Linux didn't 
>> fulfill my other requirements.  Neither did the Rolling Release distros:  At 
>> some point, support for older hardware must be dropped to make way for new, 
>> and the old system "breaks."  I can't have that.
>>
>> So, with the release of 15 (I'm still using 12), which would have 
>> traditionally been my next upgrade, my decision was finalized.  GNOME 3 was 
>> really what did it.  After using it for a while to get familiar with it, I 
>> decided I just didn't like it.  And KDE is still a resource gluten--the 
>> primary reason I left it years ago.  Considered XFCE and LXDE instead, but 
>> decided the best option was to abandon the Desktop GUI environment 
>> all-together in favor of a well-featured window manager, simple launch bar 
>> for most used apps, floating menus for the others, and a terminal or two.  I 
>> don't really need all the other crap.  Not even 3D.
>>
>> My primary choice is Debian 6, 64-bit, and Openbox.  I've been testing both 
>> in VirtualBox for a few months.  So far, so good.
>>
>> I'll still keep an eye on Fedora for old time's sake.  And 12 will stay on 
>> the system as a back up.  So, it's not exactly farewell, just . . .
>>
>> Auf Wiedersehen,
>>
>> B
> As was stated in a recent response on this list, Fedora is always in
> test mode, so
> will always change rapidly.
>
> You will find that Debian uses very old releases of kernel and user apps
> and libs,
> thus much of the new advances are not available for it from it's vanilla
> repos.
> Also, if you are looking for support over many years, are you sure that
> it is actively
> supported and new bugs fixed in this release version you have chosen?
>
>
Squeeze (Debian six) was just recently released and they still support 
Debian four.  Much like RedHat has a ten year policy that they will 
support.  RedHat is still supporting RHEL 4 for some companies that 
cannot or will not move to RH 5.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:17 PM, David wrote:
> On 6/12/2011 10:06 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 6/12/11 6:36 PM, David wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2011 8:48 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:20:39 -0700
>>>> James McKenzie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We need
>>>>> to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out
>>>>> there.
>>>> When you run Windows for the first time, annoying tutorials badger
>>>> you incessantly about learning how to use the Windows interface
>>>> and/or adapting to changes made in the new version of Windows.
>>> FUD
>> No, truth. When you run Linux for the first time, does it have a
>> built-in take you step by step tutorial?  I've never been 'badgered' by
>> one.  Remember, the key is Lowest Common Denominator (LCD).  If you hit
>> that, then you've pissed off the upper levels, but as one I just dismiss
>> it and go about my business.  This is one of those areas that Linux
>> desktop designers could learn from their Windows and MacOSX
>> counterparts.  I've been down this road before and I don't want the
>> flames that are coming back.  Not everyone is a 'genius' and not
>> everyone can understand what each icon does.  Remember, Einstein could
>> not make change nor did he understand the monetary system, but he still
>> managed to buy his groceries, when they were not bought for him.
>
> I said FUD instead of bull$hit because Windows does not do what he said.
> So what are you trying to say?
I've installed XP, Vista and Seven.  All of them start with a tour of 
the operating system.  Even Windows Server 2003/2008 has the "Manage 
Your Server" window that comes up.  When I start XP/Vista/Seven for the 
first time, there is a 'Would You Like to Take a Tour" item that shows 
up.  Does Linux do the same thing?  Last time I started up Gnome, it did 
not.  That is what I'm trying to say.  My Mac had a very nice 
introduction and really fancy setup system.  I did not find such a thing 
when I installed Fedora 13 on my Thinkpad.  Remember, the system has to 
be really easy.  Linux has not.  The phrase "Linux has friends, it is 
just picky as to who they are" is not where we need to be if Linux is to 
grow on the Workstation desktop.  I know there are folks who don't care, 
but there are only so many servers in the world and Linux is presently 
the winner in that category but is slipping.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:08 PM, nomnex wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:07:10 -0700
> James McKenzie  wrote:
>
> 
>
> The last comment comes from a OSX Mac user. if I recall, you can only
> re-size the windows using the bottom left side on Mac, not to confuse
> the user-base=>BIG ego, poor skills.
I've been using computers since the 1970s.  Hollerith cards, JCL and the 
whole bunch.  Again, the big breakthrough for home computer ownership 
was and remains Windows95.  Not Linux, not MacOSX, but a cobbled 
together Piece of Bovine Excrement.  But it brought the masses to 
computing.  Linux, although much superior, has a major problem and that 
is the UI.  The 'best' UI out there at present is MacOSX.  And I don't 
just say that because I use one, its because just about everyone out 
there is trying to imitate it.  If you are trying to copy Windows7, you 
are trying to copy the functionality of MacOSX Aqua.  It is simple and 
basically hides most functions most users will never want to touch and 
in most cases, should not touch.
> And then the lecture goes on: "if you don't follow the cheeps, you will
> get crushed?!" - Says how? Jobs or Ballmer?
>
Neither.  Try Nash.  Yes, the Economics professor from Princeton.  
Marketing is what is it is all about.  You could make the best gizmo in 
the business, but if you cannot get folks to use it, you just wasted 
your time and alot of someone else's money.   This happened with OS/2 
when Microsoft introduced WindowsNT 3.1.  This is also the beginnings of 
the Wine project back in the mid-1990s.  If Linux were the leader, 
rather than the follower, we would not be in this state, correct?  I see 
Gnome3 and KDE4 as an attempt to lure Windows users to the Linux flock.  
I hope they succeed.  Those people need a better OS than one riddled 
with security holes and that has difficulties running more than 24 hours.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 6:54 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 06/13/2011 08:48 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:20:39 -0700
>> James McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>> We need
>>> to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out
>>> there.
>> When you run Windows for the first time, annoying tutorials badger
>> you incessantly about learning how to use the Windows interface
>> and/or adapting to changes made in the new version of Windows.
>>
>> When you run pretty much any flavor of any new and improved,
>> super wizz-bang, this time we'll capture the desktop for sure,
>> linux interface, you are confronted with anything from a maze
>> of meaningless icons (none of which resemble a "help" button :-),
>> to maybe just a vast expanse of empty space that leaves you
>> equally clueless.
>>
>> As long as Windows has the "Hey! Get your clues here!" attitude
>> and Linux has the "Our awesome designers have better things to
>> do than provide documentation." attitude, the Linux designers
>> will continue to remain puzzled by why the masses aren't flocking
>> to their clearly superior works of intellectual brilliance.
> I haven't run MS-Windows for the "first time" in a long time.   So, I
> don't know what it may or may not offer.
>
> However, what you've said seems (at least to me) to be confusing and
> contradictory.
>
> You seem to be saying that what Windows does is "incessant and
> annoying".  Those would seem to be attributes Linux should strive to avoid.
>
> But, it seems that you are advocating that approach since you seem to be
> saying that what they do is a form of documentation lacking in Linux
> that keeps people from discovering Linux desktops.
>
> For something like GNOME 3, would a pointer to
> http://library.gnome.org/  be something that should be presented the
> first time a user accesses their GNOME 3 desktop?
>
Good start, Ed.  Maybe a short tutorial that can be dismissed by those 
of us that know how the thing works would be better.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 6:36 PM, David wrote:
> On 6/12/2011 8:48 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:20:39 -0700
>> James McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>> We need
>>> to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out
>>> there.
>> When you run Windows for the first time, annoying tutorials badger
>> you incessantly about learning how to use the Windows interface
>> and/or adapting to changes made in the new version of Windows.
> FUD
No, truth. When you run Linux for the first time, does it have a 
built-in take you step by step tutorial?  I've never been 'badgered' by 
one.  Remember, the key is Lowest Common Denominator (LCD).  If you hit 
that, then you've pissed off the upper levels, but as one I just dismiss 
it and go about my business.  This is one of those areas that Linux 
desktop designers could learn from their Windows and MacOSX 
counterparts.  I've been down this road before and I don't want the 
flames that are coming back.  Not everyone is a 'genius' and not 
everyone can understand what each icon does.  Remember, Einstein could 
not make change nor did he understand the monetary system, but he still 
managed to buy his groceries, when they were not bought for him.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 4:58 PM, inode0 wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 20:14, Ed Greshko  wrote:
>>> I've recently switched from briefs to boxers.  Somehow I don't think
>>> that is worthy of an announcement either.   :-) :-)
>> Heh what a great alternative way to ay what I replied in another post.
>> "Good riddance, good luck, but most important: who cares?".
>> :)
> The people who create distributions should care. Both about who adopts
> their distribution and why and about who abandons it and why.
John:

Read my lengthy post.  Most, if not all, Linux distributions are FREE.  
If I abandon a distribution because they adopted a desktop that will 
bring in 100 for 1, I really am not going to care why you left.  If it 
were more like 2 to 1 or 4 to 1, I might.  The goal is to capture folks 
who are tired of the claptrap and garbage from our competitors.  We need 
to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out 
there.  That is the goal of the two major desktop projects.  I for one 
applaud their efforts.  Remember they have to work around legal 
requirements that we don't have to deal with.  One day, I will install 
CentOS 6 on one of the Macs that I have here and then continue 
computing, which is what I like doing.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 3:36 PM, Andras Simon wrote:
> On 6/13/11, Patrick Bartek  wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Considered XFCE and LXDE instead, but
>> decided the best option was to abandon the Desktop GUI environment
>> all-together in favor of a well-featured window manager, simple launch bar
>> for most used apps, floating menus for the others, and a terminal or two.  I
>> don't really need all the other crap.  Not even 3D.
> Welcome to the club :-) I never understood what these desktop
> environments give mankind that a window manager doesn't.


Give you a wonderful clue.  Look at DOS/Windows 3.1 and then look at 
WindowsNT.  That is what most users are looking for.  They don't care 
about the command line and really don't want to even mess with it.  For 
those of use 'smart' enough to figure our way around the CLI, we are 
either considered:
1.  Geniuses.
2.  Snobs.
3.  Arrogant bastards who want the days of the 'Green Door' to come back.

Most of the people that I work with are Computer Scientists or Computer 
Engineers.  We are constantly answering questions and most people 
consider us either 1 or 2.  However, if you go out and read the "other 
Linuxes" forums you will find a group that is slowly but surely calling 
us, with increasingly poor wording, number 3.

The thing is, either you embrace change and adapt to it or you will be 
crushed.  I'll give you a really good example that most of us live with 
today:  Airbags in your automobile.  When they were introduced by 
Mercedes Benz in their 1973 autos, they were considered a death device 
and were actually banned from sale in the United States.  Today, try 
buying an auto, in most countries without one.  Good luck.  They are now 
required in the United States for all passenger type vehicles.  This is 
the same with the desktop system.  Either we can embrace and learn how 
they work and how to work around them, or we can sit there and watch 
what happens.  I, for one, embrace a technology that gives people with 
less skills the ability to use a superior operating system.  Linux can 
either be the OS/2 of the computing world or the replacement for 
Microsoft's Windows products.  Which do YOU want?  I want the latter.  I 
want people to use, with ease, a vastly better OS.  We, the community 
have to be willing to assist those who want that goal.  And remember, we 
have variety.  We can CHOOSE to use Gnome3, KDE 4, XFCE or a number of 
frontends.  If we want, we don't have to use ANY of them.  That is 
called convenience, and I like that.

Folks, we can discuss this to the end.  The decision has been made, for 
us by others, that the desktop will move into the 21st Century.  Our 
thoughts, comments and other such are not even under consideration.  In 
other words, we are wasting our time even talking about it.  The best 
use of our time is to find and report problems that will affect those 
who do not have the skills we do.   We can choose to use other 
desktop/windowing systems and be happy.  All of the grumbling I've read 
did not and cannot stop RedHat from adopting Gnome 3 or KDE 4 as the 
primary desktop for Fedora and RHEL.  That is and will remain a fact of 
life.  If you feel otherwise, that is your feeling/opinion.

Have a great life.

James McKenzie

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 4:36 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 19:08, Patrick Bartek  wrote:
>> It's been a nice ride these past 7 years with Fedora as my primary OS, but 
>> it's time to move on.
> This reminds me of OS/2 users on oS/2 maling list who often  decided
> that not only they had to change OS, they had to write a long tirade
> telling others why they decided to leave, and why their once-favorite
> OS was doomed.
The funny thing is that OS/2 is still in use, it has not died and IBM no 
longer has technical control over it.  If IBM had not abandoned the SOHO 
environment, I would still be using it today.  Could not and still 
cannot find anything as bullet proof.  I ran a BBS on it that had an 
uptime messured in YEARS.  Cannot say that for Linux/UNIX/MacOSX.  
However, I have found the desktop wars amusing to say the least.

James McKenzie

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Re: Default browser problem -

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 9:22 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> On 12/06/11 11:11, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 6/12/11 7:51 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>>>F-15 and Firefox simply do not work as I want them to so I
>>>installed Google Chrome to try it.
>>>
>>>However when I click on a link in an e-mail message in
>>>Thunderbird it keeps starting Firefox instead of the default
>>>browser, Chrome.
>> Did you change the hypertext Application from Firefox to Chrome?
>>
>> James McKenzie
>>
>
>  "hypertext Application"
>
>  Where do I find that?
>
>  "Preferred Applications" shows Chrome as the default. I probably
>  should have mentioned that this is F-15/XFCE although the
>  problem is with Mozilla Thunderbird so I would not expect the
>  desktop to cause the problem.
Look for Attachments (at least that is what it is called for MacIntosh, 
which should be the same.)  It should be on the Preferences tab/menu 
item under tools in the menu bar.

James McKenzie

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Re: Default browser problem -

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 7:51 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>  F-15 and Firefox simply do not work as I want them to so I
>  installed Google Chrome to try it.
>
>  However when I click on a link in an e-mail message in
>  Thunderbird it keeps starting Firefox instead of the default
>  browser, Chrome.
Did you change the hypertext Application from Firefox to Chrome?

James McKenzie

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Re: Unable to fix label of /run: read-only file system.

[James McKenzie]

On 6/12/11 2:12 AM, Joshua C. wrote:
> 2011/6/12 James McKenzie:
>
>> You can't.  The filesystem is marked as RO.  Is this a CD/DVD media?  If
>> it is NOT, you have to mount the media as Read-Write so that the label
>> can be updated.
>>
>> James.
> No, this started after I upgraded from f14 to f15. My grub entry says:
>
> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.38.8-31.fc15.x86_64 ro
> root=UUID=XX rhgb quiet SYSFONT=X
> LANG=en_US.UTF-8 KEYTABLE=XX
> initrd /boot/initramfs-2.6.38.8-31.fc15.x86_64.img
>
> and It's been like this since f10 I think. I saw that when I boot from
> livecd/-dvd I didn't get those messages.
>
> However during the boot process there is a messages saying
> "...remounting root fs read-write...". Should I change the grub entry
> (delete the ro) and if so what'll be the impact of this? Why was "ro"
> passed to the kernel in the first place, anayway?
The kernel is first mounted read only so that it can be validated as not 
corrupt and then remounted as read-write if it passed the check.  I 
would not change this unless you are certain that the kernel will never 
become corrupted.  This does not happen with the Live-CD as the media is 
assumed to be read-only and that the mount process is to memory, not 
physical media.

James McKenzie

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Re: OT: allow ordinary user to read /var/log/audit/audit.log

[James McKenzie]

On 6/11/11 11:37 PM, Hiisi wrote:
> On 12 June 2011 04:14, James McKenzie  wrote:
>> On 6/9/11 10:58 AM, Hiisi wrote:
> <--SNIP-->
>>> Any other suggestions?
>> You could always make the file world-read.  That means EVERYONE can read
>> the file.  You just don't have to tell them
>>
> Surely I can. I just thought there should be the other way. Say, thru
> sudo. Well, it seems that changing file attributes is the only way
> here.
You might be able to do this using sudo but the command would have to be 
very specific.  I did not think of editing the sudoers file for this.

James McKenzie

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Re: Unable to fix label of /run: read-only file system.

[James McKenzie]

On 6/11/11 3:03 AM, Joshua C. wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm greeted with "Unable to fix label of /run: read-only file system."
> every time I boot the system. After relabelling the system several
> times and upgrading to the lastes selinux-policy (-29.fc15) I still
> get this. There's though no obvious impact on the performance.
>
> Does anyone have any idea how to fix this? Google didn't help that much.
You can't.  The filesystem is marked as RO.  Is this a CD/DVD media?  If 
it is NOT, you have to mount the media as Read-Write so that the label 
can be updated.

James.

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Re: git patch comments

[James McKenzie]

On 6/8/11 2:52 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Turns into:
> Git comment - bullet 1 - bullet 2
>
This is how git formats the text when it sends the bug in.  I've done 
this myself and was surprised when formatting I applied disappeared.  If 
you want the latter, you'll have to inform the git folks in their 
forum/bug reporting system.

James

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Re: OT: allow ordinary user to read /var/log/audit/audit.log

[James McKenzie]

On 6/9/11 10:58 AM, Hiisi wrote:
> On 9 June 2011 19:45, James McKenzie  wrote:
>> On 6/9/11, Hiisi  wrote:
> <--SNIP-->
>> What group owns the log file.  It may be as simple as adding the group
>> to the sudoers file with the /var/log directory.
> Thanks, James, but it's owned by root:root. I don't want to add him to
> the root group. Neither want I to change it to root:hospes.
> Any other suggestions?
You could always make the file world-read.  That means EVERYONE can read 
the file.  You just don't have to tell them

James

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Re: OT: allow ordinary user to read /var/log/audit/audit.log

[James McKenzie]

On 6/9/11, Hiisi  wrote:
> Hi, list!
> Sorry for off-topic. I want to give certain users to execute some
> commands to configure web-server. Here's what I have in /etc/sudoers
> for user 'hospes':
> Cmnd_Alias HOSPES = /sbin/service, /sbin/chkconfig,
> /usr/sbin/setsebool, /sbin/restorecon, /usr/sbin/semanage,
> /usr/sbin/setenforce
> %hospes ALL=(root) sudoedit /etc/httpd/*
> %hospes ALL=(root) sudoedit /etc/hosts
> Next I would like to allow hospes to read /var/log/audit/audit.log. I
> don't want to allow him to edit this file but only to read (e.g. cat
> or grep). I don't want to change audit.log attributes. Any
> suggestions, please?
What group owns the log file.  It may be as simple as adding the group
to the sudoers file with the /var/log directory.
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Re: test message ...

[James McKenzie]

On 6/6/11 6:53 PM, Jamie Bohr wrote:
> Are my emails getting posted?  Respond to jamieb...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jamieb...@gmail.com>, if I don't get a response within a few 
> minutes of sending this my guess is my message has not gone through.
Yes, you are hitting the list.  BTW, these types of messages are 
discouraged...

James McKenzie

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Re: Real benefits of RHEL over Fedora?

[James McKenzie]

On 6/5/11 8:11 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> On 06/05/2011 07:42 PM, Alex wrote:
>> I recall reading that CentOS is having trouble keeping up with the
>> latest RHEL. Is this currently a problem? Any input on whether future
>> updates will be delayed as well?
> CentOS 5.6 was released several months after RHEL 5.6, and CentOS 6
> still hasn't been released.  (RHEL 6.1 was just recently released.)
>
> As they say in the investment business, "past performance is no
> guarantee of future results."  I don't think anyone can really say
> with confidence what the future holds for any of the distributions
> that are derived from RHEL sources.
>
> (For the sake of full disclosure, I do work for Red Hat.  Hopefully,
> everything I've written above is relatively uncontroversial.)
>
The problem with CentOS updating to RHEL 6.x releases is the amount of 
imbedded RH information that they have to remove, by law.  Once that is 
complete, there should be a CentOS 6.x release.  I will not blame RedHat 
for this, the codebase is different and more files means more stuff to 
remove/replace.

BTW, I do work with RHEL 5.5/5.6 at my workplace and we are looking to 
move to 6.x as soon as it is approved.

James McKenzie

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Re: Real benefits of RHEL over Fedora?

[James McKenzie]

On 6/5/11 5:42 PM, Alex wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the process of building a mail server and considering CentOS,
> fedora, or RHEL. If I chose the RHEL option, I would probably choose
> the minimal support level.
>
Is this for a business or personal use?  If it is for business, go with 
RHEL 6 or the latest version of CentOS.  Fedora, as great as it is, 
continues to be a testing environment for RedHat.  If it is for 
personal/home use, I would choose Fedora, if you like to run in a 
testing environment and have access to the latest programs.  If you 
don't like doing that, then I would go with CentOS.

James McKenzie

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Re: What did I do wrong?

[James McKenzie]

On 6/5/11 11:19 AM, JB wrote:
> James McKenzie  gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> ...
>>> Well, it looks like you are firmly in the non-GNOME 3 camp
>> I'm firmly in the 'If you want a GUI, go and get it' camp.  If I wanted
>> Windows, I would buy it.
>>> Systemd ? It looks like we will have UNIX-like Fedora back again
>> Good.  There's been that talk for a while...
>>
>> James McKenzie
>> (I've never met a CLI I don't like.)
>>
> The two babies were delivered.
>
> But that was not enuf - post factum they even told us that they wanted them to
> be dependent, which amounted to twins desired.
>
> Now they are both on life support :-)
>
> "What did I do wrong ?". Plenty ...
I agree with the analogy, but there are more than two babies and only 
the two oldest and biggest ones are on life support (Gnome and KDE).  
The other children like XFDE are gaining weight because their parents 
are feeding them well.

In the attempt to gain users, you actually lost quite a few.  Not 
explaining why changes are being made in a user-centric universe is 
bad.  Doing so AFTER said users say they don't want the changes is 
asinine.  However, we all know the results.  I've heard of no thundering 
requests for change from Windows to Linux, at least not yet.

James McKenzie

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Re: problem with fedora when booting

[James McKenzie]

On 6/5/11 2:39 PM, Adel ESSAFI wrote:
> 2011/6/4 Neil mailto:neil...@gmail.com>>
>
>
> > Dear list
> > My fedora system does not boot after selecting fedora from grub.
> > I get a black screen with a cursor and after that, nothing
> happens (no error
> > messages appears...)
> > Even when I boot with single mode, the same bevaviour happens.
> >
> > I have fedora 14 on a dell laptop.
> >
> > Can you help?
> > Regards
> > Adel
> >
> 在 2011-6-4 下午9:19，"Adel ESSAFI"  <mailto:adeless...@gmail.com>>写道：
>
>
> Hi, have you install a video card driver not OOS? If it is, pls edit 
> the grub line with video default settings.
>
>
> hi
> what should I add ?
> Regards
What is the line for booting in your grub.conf?

What model and manufacturer of the Video Card you are using?

Please bottom post here, that is the way we do things.  Questions?  Read 
the mailing list guidelines.

James McKenzie

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Re: What did I do wrong?

[James McKenzie]

On 6/5/11 10:52 AM, JB wrote:
> James McKenzie  gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> On 6/5/11, david grant  david-grant.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> F15, Gnome 3 and Mouse Pointer Size
>>> ...
>> You realistically should be asking these questions AS WELL AS EVERYONE
>> ELSE on a Gnome 3 forum.  All Fedora does is add this to the product
>> package as a convenience (and I really don't find it that convenient
>> when the download is 2+GB.  Something around a single CD would be a
>> real great release package.  If I want Gnome 3, I'll look for it and
>> get it.
>>
>> James McKenzie
> Well, it looks like you are firmly in the non-GNOME 3 camp :-)
I'm firmly in the 'If you want a GUI, go and get it' camp.  If I wanted 
Windows, I would buy it.
> Systemd ? It looks like we will have UNIX-like Fedora back again :-)
Good.  There's been that talk for a while...

James McKenzie
(I've never met a CLI I don't like.)

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Re: What did I do wrong?

[James McKenzie]

On 6/5/11, david grant  wrote:

> F15, Gnome 3 and Mouse Pointer Size
>
> Is there a way of increasing the pointer size, an option that is in
> Gnome2? I have googled away but cannot find any reference to such an
> option.  Either I have missed something simple or the option has been
> removed.

You realistically should be asking these questions AS WELL AS EVERYONE
ELSE on a Gnome 3 forum.  All Fedora does is add this to the product
package as a convenience (and I really don't find it that convenient
when the download is 2+GB.  Something around a single CD would be a
real great release package.  If I want Gnome 3, I'll look for it and
get it.

James McKenzie
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Re: Why on the Earth GNOME Shell hiding Shutdown & Restart options

[James McKenzie]

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 15:20, Alan Evans  wrote:
>> The most obstinate wing has been driving GNOME for a very long time
>> now. For a good laugh, just browse the gnome-devel archives.
>
> 15 years ago, in IBM OS/2 Warp, changing the mouse cursor was a
> drag-and-drop operation, just drag any .ico over the drop area of the
> mouse pointer tab in the mouse properties object, and that .ico became
> the cursor.
>
I remember those days.  This would be a really 'neat' feature to have
in any current OS/WM/Shell...

> I´m curious if things have improved in Gnome 3, or changing the
> cursors is still a pain in the ass.
>
Don't know.  I don't have an Intel based machine powerful enough to
try this out.  However, I may relegate my 'spare' Mac to being a Linux
machine and see what happens.  It is sitting on the shelf gathering
dust now.
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Re: Why on the Earth GNOME Shell hiding Shutdown & Restart options

[James McKenzie]

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Alan Evans  wrote:
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Juan R. de Silva wrote:
>
>> Looks like the most obstinate wing took it over in GNOME.
>
> The most obstinate wing has been driving GNOME for a very long time
> now. For a good laugh, just browse the gnome-devel archives.
>
> These are the same fine folks who foisted spacial view on us by
> default. I'm still waiting to meet even a single person who prefers
> it. Whenever I help someone install Linux, that's the first thing that
> they want me to turn off.
>
Start with the Wine nOObs that are moving to Linux for 'security'.
They want that Windows look and feel...

The good part is that those of us that don't want it, don't have to
have it either.

James McKenzie
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Re: F15B: Wireless Unavailable

[James McKenzie]

On 5/22/11 7:01 PM, Steven F. LeBrun wrote:
> I recently bought a new Dell XPS 15R laptop and installed Fedora 15 
> Beta on it.  I have been having trouble getting the wireless adapter 
> to work.
>
> After downloading and installing the latest Intel Wireless WiFi 
> driver/firmware iwlwifi-6000g2b from www.intellinuxwireless.org, the 
> wireless adapter worked until the system was rebooted a second time.  
> Now all I get is that wireless is unavailable though the mac address 
> of the adapter is listed in the network configuration dialog.
This needs to go to the testing list.  They need to know about this 
problem and this is not the place to advise them of it.
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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On 5/22/11 4:00 PM, Tim wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:40 -0700, JD wrote:
> Usually, well encrypted connections are hacked by:  Guessing stupidly
> chosen passwords or stealing them (copying written notes, implanting
> trojans, asking someone to login to something and hoping they'll use the
> same password).  The latter being dead easy.  Lots of people use the
> same password for everything.  And how often do you see some website
> that asks you to login using your Hotmail address and password?  And
> people do, without giving any thought about it.
>
They are ID10Ts and ripe for the phishing

And they wonder what happened when their bank accounts are drained dry.

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Re: bios update

[James McKenzie]

On 5/22/11 5:51 AM, Craig White wrote:
> and it shouldn't go without mention that Matt is not only a board member
> of Fedora but also has spearheaded tremendous Linux support at Dell
> which provides tools such as these to make life easier for Linux users
> for which I am very grateful.
>
> Craig
>
>
+1.  We need more advocates like Matt.

[Sidebar]

Is it still possible to purchase a Dell computer with Linux pre-installed?

James McKenzie

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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On 5/21/11 6:01 PM, JD wrote:
> On 05/21/11 17:45, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 5/20/11 3:54 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 14:20 +, g wrote:
>>> I know it extremely well, having taught it in undergrad CS courses.
>>>
>> Most of us out here that lived through that mess are very well versed in
>> the history and arrest of Phil.  There was a fund to help pay for his
>> defense.
>>> I have completely lost track of whatever point it was you were trying to
>>> make. PGP has nothing whatever to do with Wifi security in the sense of
>>> this thread.
>>>
>> Cryptographic algorithms and making their internal workings public.
>> BTW, there are TWO versions of PGP, one that uses the still patented RSA
>> front end and the other uses IDEA.  Guess which one is stronger and
>> costs money to use and is ILLEGAL to export outside of the United
>> States?  That is why I LOVE the ability to bring things into the United
>> States that basically make some points moot.
>>
>> The point is that the WPA-2 and AES products are fully documented.
>> Breaking them is basically against the law for several reasons.  But if
>> you fail to properly secure your network, do not employ appropriate
>> security notification guards and I 'accidentally' break in, whose fault
>> is it?  And I'll still be looking at a handcuff surprise...
>>
>> James McKenzie
>>
> Do you recall the Russian student who broke the PDF encryption scheme?
> He was somehow invited/enticed/lured (not sure which), to come to the US,
> and was arrested.
> I thought that a country has no jurisdiction to arrest a foreign
> national for
> a crime committed in a foreign country, which might or might not have laws
> against such activity.  But hey, who is complaining ? :) :)
I do.  And he was sent home.  MIT, which owned the RSA patent decided 
not to persue, if said student did not use the code to build an 
unpatented process that duplicated RSA functioning and he did not use 
his knowledge for illegal purposes...:)
And the International Court had a field day with this as well.

James McKenzie

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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On 5/20/11 3:54 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 14:20 +, g wrote:
> I know it extremely well, having taught it in undergrad CS courses.
>
Most of us out here that lived through that mess are very well versed in 
the history and arrest of Phil.  There was a fund to help pay for his 
defense.
> I have completely lost track of whatever point it was you were trying to
> make. PGP has nothing whatever to do with Wifi security in the sense of
> this thread.
>
Cryptographic algorithms and making their internal workings public.  
BTW, there are TWO versions of PGP, one that uses the still patented RSA 
front end and the other uses IDEA.  Guess which one is stronger and 
costs money to use and is ILLEGAL to export outside of the United 
States?  That is why I LOVE the ability to bring things into the United 
States that basically make some points moot.

The point is that the WPA-2 and AES products are fully documented.  
Breaking them is basically against the law for several reasons.  But if 
you fail to properly secure your network, do not employ appropriate 
security notification guards and I 'accidentally' break in, whose fault 
is it?  And I'll still be looking at a handcuff surprise...

James McKenzie

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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On 5/20/11 3:57 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> Actually the previous poster seemed to be saying that it is currently
> illegal to publish algorithms to *decrypt* WPA and friends. That's what
> I was asking for evidence for.
>
Interesting.  I know of no such thing.  I'll have to investigate 
further.  I may not be able to publish what I find due to security 
constraints unless the information is public knowledge.  I know of no 
restrictions on publishing the WPA-2 standards though.

James McKenzie

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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 5:27 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 21:30 -0700, JD wrote:
>> Gov has made it illegal to publish such algorithms, at least
>> in the USA.
>
> Evidence?
>
Not so.  DES, 3DES and AES are all PUBLISHED alogrithms and are used
by the DoD/NSA (CISSP training from (ISC)2 as source.)  PGP using IDEA
is a published alogrithm.  There are NO bans against publishing them,
just distributing them to "controlled countries" by US law.
Fedora/RedHat have had to take the position that they will supply the
packages to only those who do not export to controlled countries or
banned individuals.

The KEY to security is a STRONG KEY, if using PGP (asymetric key
alogrithm) keeping your private key private, and keeping a shared
secret so.  WPA-2 + AES is a published standard and alogrithm.  It is
best to use a very strong, 168+ bit, key and keeping it secure.

Thus, the key to securing your Wireless network is a combination of
using very strong cryptography and very good physical security
(knowing who is connected and why and who is connected to your
wired+wireless router physically.)

James McKenzie
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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On 5/17/11 6:20 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> I didn't say that cracking wpa2-ps/aes is easy. I was saying that, 
> whatever
> the security algorithm you are trying to crack, having a hidden SSID and
> filtered MAC is not going to make it *any* harder than having a public SSID 
> and
> no MAC filtering. That data is essentially publicly available to anyone in
> range, and can be obtained with no effort at all. One doesn't even need the
> know-how, one can just type a single command in the terminal and have all that
> "hidden" stuff displayed on the screen. And that command is something you 
> would
> type anyway if you want to crack a wireless network.
>
> In other words, hiding SSID and filtering MACs adds absolutely *nothing* to 
> the
> security of the network. It is not even an extra step that one would need to
> deal with while cracking. It is literally equivalent to "please don't open me"
> sign on the door. Using a serious security algorithm is essential for a
> wireless network, but saying that hiding SSID and filtering MAC addresses adds
> an additional layer of security is just plain wrong.
>
However, for the causal observer, like the casual thief, not having an 
immediately visible door sends them elsewhere.

I'll try to make this simple for JD.
1.  Hidden SSID.  Standard practice.
2.  MAC filtering.  Standard practice.
3.  WPA-2/AES with a well-though out passphrase.  Standard practice.
4.  WEP.  Don't even think of it.
5.  WPA.  Don't even think of it.
6.  Minimal power.  Standard practice.  (If I can't read your network, 
then I cannot hack it.)
7.  Changing the channel.  Standard practice and it prevents interference.

There are other things like network segregation and even logging into 
the router (I've seen both.)

However, the most IMPORTANT part is using WPA-2/AES.  Your traffic can 
only then be sniffed by folks if they gain access to the wireless 'box' 
and manage to put the port into promiscuous mode. (WAP GAP.)  That is 
why I love folks that leave their wireless router open and never change 
the default user/password.  I managed to troubleshoot why a wireless 
system was not working at a business that way.  Marko, is correct in 
that there are tools that will discover the SSID and the MAC addresses 
of computers on the network.  However, if you try to use my MAC address 
while I'm connected the call to IT would be most interesting.

The point is that without encryption and total security, wireless is 
wide open.  I've been making this analogy.  Put a deadbolt on your 
doors, pin locks on your windows and do all the right things.  It takes 
a determined thief to break in.  Then you know you have something that 
someone wants...

The first part of security is knowing what NOT TO do, not what TO do.

James McKenzie

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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On 5/17/11 2:01 PM, JD wrote:
> On 05/17/11 12:23, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>> On Tuesday 17 May 2011 19:47:24 JD wrote:
>>> On 05/17/11 11:23, Steve Searle wrote:
>>>> Around 07:16pm on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 (UK time), JD scrawled:
>>>>> Right. Also, it is not necessarily "neighbours" that are adjacent
>>>>> you your house or a few houses down. Someone can park a car
>>>>> not far from your house, and using the type of home-made antenna
>>>>> James mentioned, they can hack your network.
>>>>> I would strongly encourage you to use MAC address whitelist.
>>>> Because someone with the knowhow to make antenna like this and hack your
>>>> wireless password would have no idea how to spoof mac addresses?
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>> It just reduces the number of would be hackers to those
>>> with the knowhow. And the probability that such
>>> knowledgeable hackers being near your vicinity is much
>>> less than the casual hackers without such knowledge.
>>> In network security, even the simplest measures should
>>> not be dropped just because there are those with the tools
>>> and the knowhow to hack it. It's like saying No need to lock
>>> your car because the door can easily be opened by an
>>> expert carthief.
>> Oh, come on, it took me cca 20 minutes to go from being an absolute noob to
>> being able to crack my own network. It requires reading through one web page
>> and four man pages.
>>
>>>  From man aireplay-ng:
>> -h
>>  Set source MAC address.
>>
>> Read the output of airodump-ng for a MAC address of an already connected
>> client to find one that is allowed by the access point firewall. How much of 
>> an
>> expert one needs to be to use an option switch in a command?
>>
>> Really, people typically have no idea how easy it is to crack a wireless 
>> until
>> they actually try it, at least once. After that, one gets to appreciate what
>> is really a security measure, and what is the "please don't open me" sign on
>> the door.
>>
>> MAC spoofing is trivial. Even in Windows there is a field to type a desired 
>> MAC
>> somewhere in the network settings...
>>
>> Best, :-)
>> Marko
>>
> Too much bluster here.
> Show us any credible publication
> that claims wpa2-ps/AES has been easily cracked
> or even cracked at all.
>
JD:

As far as I can discover, it has not been.  DES has and 3DES is in 
danger of being broken (however it offers many permutations of the 
two/three key combination.)

James McKenzie

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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Michael Cronenworth  wrote:
> James McKenzie wrote:
>> True.  Bet you have a lock on every door to your house as well.
>> Turning off the SSID is a deterent.  Make them go somewhere else.
>> Same with door locks.  If I want to get into your house, I will.  Even
>> if it means using TNT.
>
> James, why are you attempting to justify this pointless, unsecure,
> method of wireless configuration?
>
> SSID hiding is *not* secure. It is *not* a deterrent. Security through
> obscurity is *not* security.
>
Want to bet?  By hiding stuff in plain sight? It works.  It's called
Stegronagraphy.  If I camoflague myself and hid in a bunch of bushes,
I'm betting you won't find me.  That is what we are doing when we hide
the ssid.
Again, it is a DETERANT, not an absolute method.
If I turn off the ssid, your job just got harder.

>> Same thing here.  It will take more 'work'.  Make them go away.
>
> Obtaining a MAC takes seconds - i.e. no more 'work' than it is to find
> your 'hidden' SSID.
>
Same here.  If I can deter you, then I have success.  No network is
'bulletproof'.  Not even wired.  However, the more work you have to do
and the smaller the gain, and the more likely your efforts are subject
to detection, the less likely you are to try and break in.

These apply UNLESS I'm a big target and you want what information I
have.  At that point, I'm probably and ID10T for using Wireless or
having a WAP in the first place.

Security is not just putting door locks on the doors.  If I leave a
window wide open, the biggest, strongest door is worthless.  Same
thing here.  If I have a big door, geese in the yard, an 8 foot high
fence with barbed wire, you are less likely to try and invade.
However, you still can try.

Again, NO NETWORK IS SECURE.  Never will be.

James McKenzie
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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Steve Searle  wrote:
> Around 07:16pm on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 (UK time), JD scrawled:
>
>> Right. Also, it is not necessarily "neighbours" that are adjacent
>> you your house or a few houses down. Someone can park a car
>> not far from your house, and using the type of home-made antenna
>> James mentioned, they can hack your network.
>> I would strongly encourage you to use MAC address whitelist.
>
> Because someone with the knowhow to make antenna like this and hack your
> wireless password would have no idea how to spoof mac addresses?
>
If they are that technologically advanced?  I can BUY one over the
Internet.  Some computers even have an external connection.  However,
what we are suggesting is only to bar and lock the front door.  If I'm
determined, I'm on your network.  However, if you live in the 'big
city' you are going to find hundreds of unsecured wireless
connections, or poorly secured ones.  If I'm out in the woods, the
pickings are slim and you just might want to take the effort to break
in.  Same if you have valuable data.  TJX learned the lessons of not
securing their network AND having valuable data.

James McKenzie


> Steve
>
> --
>
> Website:  www.stevesearle.com
> Twitter:  @ReddishShift
> Facebook: www.facebook.com/steve.searle
>
>  19:22:02 up 31 days,  8:28,  1 user,  load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00
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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Tim  wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 17:36 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote:
>> Also if it's your home wLan, hide it, don't broadcast the ssid.
>> So those in your neighbourhood won't even know you have a wireless.
>
> Completely pointless:
>
>  Your device is transmitting something, this is detectable.  And it
> does so several times a second (i.e. it's continual).
>
True.  Bet you have a lock on every door to your house as well.
Turning off the SSID is a deterent.  Make them go somewhere else.
Same with door locks.  If I want to get into your house, I will.  Even
if it means using TNT.

>  MAC filtering is useless as a security measure, and can be a pain in
> the neck for yourself trying to get things working.  It can't force
> someone to be unable to connect, but it can make it awkward for you,
> making you have to reset things to allow your computer when you make
> mistakes, or want to connect a different NIC.
>
Same thing here.  It will take more 'work'.  Make them go away.


>  With WPA2 use *only* AES out of the AES/TKIP choices.  That means AES
> by itself.  Not TKIP.  Nor TKIP and AES as a combination.  And for the
> PSK/EAP choice, you'll probably only be able to use PSK.  I seem to
> recall that EAP was another bad choice, but you'll need to research
> that.
>
Agreed.

>  Password length and wierdness increases security.  You're less likely
> to be hacked by lucky guesses if you don't have plain words in there.
> Certainly don't use real names, phone numbers, birthdates, or anything
> else that's easy for someone else to find out about you.
>
Yep.  Use a passphrase that is something easy for you to remember, but
hard for others to guess.

Again, make them go away.  Determined criminals will enter your house.
 The common thief will rattle your front door, finding it locked and
go away.

>  NB:  Regarding another posting about using foreign words, the password
> is either ASCII or HEX.  So UTF, or other encodings, are out of the
> question.  But if you can write the word using ASCII, you can enter it.
>
>  Having an unsecured net is sheer stupidity.  You might think what the
> hell, I've nothing to lose...  Well, the moment someone does something
> illegal through your network you're in for some legal fun and games that
> you really don't want to be bothered with.
>
Ask the 83 year old lady in NYC about the child porn case she found
herself involved with.  Was a 25 year old registered sex offender
using a 'friends' computer.  She got her front door broken down and he
got 170 years and had to pay for a new door.

The only places that I know of that have unsecured networks are coffee
shops and maybe the occassional food establishment.  Other than that,
lock the damn door and secure it.  Adding MAC whitelists is but one of
five steps.. We've discussed the other two to the end.

James McKenzie
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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

2011/5/17 Misha Shnurapet :
> 18.05.2011, 02:11, "James McKenzie" :
>> The next step is MAC restricting and a lot more.  However, just
>> employing security and hidden SSID is a great start.  Most people do
>> not do this.
>
> I won't use a whitelist filter so I don't get locked out on a coincidence, 
> plus my neighbours aren't into that level of computer science and I believe
> they're beyond the distance.
>
Beer can antenna at 1/4 of a mile works.  Leo Leparte showed how to do
this.  He lived on a farm property near Tracy California, United
States and was using this to relay from the house to the barn.
Interesting bit of science.

James McKenzie
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Re: Protected WLAN

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Frank Murphy  wrote:
> On 17/05/11 14:30, Misha Shnurapet wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Which WLAN protection method would you recommend?
>> * Shared key
>> * WPA-Personal
>> * WPA2-Personal
>>
>> My router also supports Radius with 802.1x and WPA/WPA2-Enterprise, but 
>> these require strange stuff like certificates that leave me clueless. :)
>>
>
> Also if it's your home wLan, hide it, don't broadcast the ssid.
> So those in your neighbourhood won't even know you have a wireless.
Yes, they will.  However, not broadcasting the SSID is a good step,
but not necessarily all you should do.  When a client connects to the
network, it inquiries if the network is available.  A patient
wardriver will pick this up.  However, they will not be able to get
easily and will move on in most cases if they see WPA2.

>
> *Some android devices, don't like hidden wireless*
True.

The next step is MAC restricting and a lot more.  However, just
employing security and hidden SSID is a great start.  Most people do
not do this.

James McKenzie
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Re: Quicktime Demuxer Plugin for Firefox

[James McKenzie]

On 5/16/11 8:45 PM, JD wrote:
> On 05/16/11 20:38, g wrote:
>> On 05/16/2011 01:47 AM, JD wrote:
>> <>
>>
>>> http://freetubetv.net/index.php?view=AbW92Y2xhc3NmcmVl
>>>
>>> If you know of such a FF plugin, please let everyone know.
>> jd,
>>
>> there is no firefox plugin to work.
>>
>>
>> "dat site be one of dem dat be ms bs only."
>>
>>
>> when i first tried site, i had to do some enabling of NoScript to get
>> to a point where i got a screen showing i needed an Xvid codec.
>>
>> when i clicked 'download', i got a window;
>>
>> 
>> The page at http://www.mymovieninja.com says:
>>
>> We're sorry, our content is not compatible with your computer 
>> configuration.
>> 
>>
>>
>> i then closed out page, and tried;
>>
>> "Tools>   Default User Agent>   Internet Explorer 7 (Windows Vista)"
>>
>> reopened page and clicked 'download' for the Xvid codec, then a window
>> came up with;
>>
>> 
>>  Opening XvidSetup.exe
>>
>>  You have chosen to open
>>
>>XvidSetup.exe
>>
>>which is a: EXE file
>>from http://origin-ics.clickpotatp.tv
>>
>>  Would you like to save this file?
>>
>> [Cancel] [Save File]
>> 
>>
>> from which i would say, forget about that site as it is an ms windows only
>> site. unless you can run an ms system from a virtual memory program.
>>
>>
>> hth.
> Great detective work! :)
> Well, if that's what they want to be accessed by, guess I will
> have to try to browse there using wine and ie  made for wine.
>
>
JD:

And if it does not work with Wine, without IE7, let the Wine folks know.

Firefox for Windows should work in Wine.

James McKenzie

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Re: Comparison of Desktop Environments in F15?

[James McKenzie]

On 5/15/11 9:03 AM, Tim wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:46 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> The flexibility to not change is also valuable to some folks.
> And I prefer "the computer does what I want, rather than what /they/
> want," aspect to Linux versus the rest.
>
That is true.  Like many here, I wish that the GNOME folks had forked 
off GNOME3 and left GNOME2 available.  However, the source should be 
available to all and you are always free to maintain/update/make 
'better' this software yourself.  That is another advantage of FOSS 
projects.

James McKenzie

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Re: Comparison of Desktop Environments in F15?

[James McKenzie]

On 5/15/11 8:24 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Sunday 15 May 2011 15:02:35 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>> On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 09:48 +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
>>> Gnome3 and KDE4, you've probably seen the threads on how they've been
>>> "dumbed down" (or, more accurately, re-focused towards people who
>>> aren't planning on doing all sorts of technical things with them).
>> I wasn't aware of any substantial changes to KDE in going from F14 to
>> F15.
>>
>> Gnome is another matter.

>> In a nutshell, the situation is the same as it always was --- Gnome for folks
>> who want simplicity, KDE for folks who want flexibility. Both in terms of
>> configuring the desktop, user experience, etc.
>>
And isn't flexibility what Linux is all about?  People get their 
knickers in a twist when things change.  I've been saying this since 
GNOME 3 was announced:  The developers are trying to capture some of 
those wanting to leave Windows but want a 'belt and suspenders' approach 
to running it.  In other words, we have ID10T Windows users who want to 
leave it behind, sometimes for the perceived safety of Linux.  Well, 
give them what they want and let those of us who know how to break and 
fix Linux to a more fun and functional interface.

James McKenzie

>> Best, :-)
>> Marko
>>

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Re: Networking problem

[James McKenzie]

On 5/14/11 8:42 PM, JD wrote:
> On 05/14/11 19:41, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
>> On 05/14/2011 10:09 PM, JD wrote:
>>> On 05/14/11 18:45, James McKenzie wrote:
>>>> On 5/14/11 6:40 PM, JD wrote:
>>>>> On 05/14/11 18:24, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/14/2011 01:27 PM, JD wrote:
>>>>>>> I also brought the fedora firewall down, and retried to ping Fedora
>>>>>>> from Powerbook. No go!!
>>>>>> That means that it's not a firewall issue.  Check your router config to
>>>>>> see if it's set to allow pings inside the LAN.
>>>>> Thanx!
>>>>> I checked. The gateway has a built-in feature (program)
>>>>> to let you ping any client on the lan (or any ip on the public net).
>>>>> The gateway can ping both the powerbook and the fedora pc.
>>>>> no problems there.
>>>>> The fedora pc and the powerbook can ping the gw, and a third machine
>>>>> connected to the GW by ethernet, and can of course ping addresses
>>>>> on the public net.
>>>>> They (fedora pc and powerbook) cannot ping each other!
>>>>> Powerbook firewall is set to promiscuous mode.
>>>>> And as I had stated earlier, I even stopped iptables on the
>>>>> fedora pc, which puts it also in promiscuous mode (I assume).
>>>>> Still these two machines refuse to talk.
>>>>>
>>>> Can you use traceroute to communicate between the two of them?
>>>>
>>>> James McKenzie
>>>>
>>> Tried it.
>>> Tracerout is unable to get to target after 30 tries.
>>> All it shows is asterisks.
>> Sounds to me like traceroute is trying to go "direct" between machines
>>
>> Can you add a "special" static route between the 2 specifying the router
>> as the gateway?
>>
>> As I recall, LAN traffic assumes that anything sent on the local
>> interface will get directly to anything else on the local network by
>> just sending it.  I'm not sure why the router doesn't "route" those
>> packets when it sees them unless it assumes that if receives them over
>> the wireless and the target machine is also wireless, that that would be
>> redundant.
>>
>> Sometimes I used to set up static routes between machines, guaranteeing
>> that the route the packets take will get there.  something like:
>>
>> On machine w.x.y.2, sending to machine w.x.y.3, using the router at
>> w.x.y.1 as the intermediary:
>>
>> # route add -host w.x.y.3 gw w.x.y.1 dev eth0
>>
>> I'm not 100% sure this will work, because if the router is at fault, it
>> may still fail.  But its worth a try.
>>
> No that would not do anything because already the default route is
> 192.168.1.254
> which is the gateway/router.
>
That default route will ONLY be used if you specified the IP range as 
/32, i.e. 192.168.1.1/32.  Otherwise the system will assume /24 and 
nothing local will be able to be located (you should be able to ping 
outbound the gateway, but nothing else in that subnet.)

James McKenzie

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Re: Networking problem

[James McKenzie]

On 5/14/11 7:41 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> On 05/14/2011 10:09 PM, JD wrote:
>> On 05/14/11 18:45, James McKenzie wrote:
>>> On 5/14/11 6:40 PM, JD wrote:
>>>> On 05/14/11 18:24, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>>>> On 05/14/2011 01:27 PM, JD wrote:
>>>>>> I also brought the fedora firewall down, and retried to ping Fedora
>>>>>> from Powerbook. No go!!
>>>>> That means that it's not a firewall issue.  Check your router config to
>>>>> see if it's set to allow pings inside the LAN.
>>>> Thanx!
>>>> I checked. The gateway has a built-in feature (program)
>>>> to let you ping any client on the lan (or any ip on the public net).
>>>> The gateway can ping both the powerbook and the fedora pc.
>>>> no problems there.
>>>> The fedora pc and the powerbook can ping the gw, and a third machine
>>>> connected to the GW by ethernet, and can of course ping addresses
>>>> on the public net.
>>>> They (fedora pc and powerbook) cannot ping each other!
>>>> Powerbook firewall is set to promiscuous mode.
>>>> And as I had stated earlier, I even stopped iptables on the
>>>> fedora pc, which puts it also in promiscuous mode (I assume).
>>>> Still these two machines refuse to talk.
>>>>
>>> Can you use traceroute to communicate between the two of them?
>>>
>>> James McKenzie
>>>
>> Tried it.
>> Tracerout is unable to get to target after 30 tries.
>> All it shows is asterisks.
> Sounds to me like traceroute is trying to go "direct" between machines
>
That it is if the two devices exist on the same subnet, which is a bad 
thing for wireless.  Your suggestion on how to solve this is 'spot on'.  
Unless traffic is local, it should go to the gateway on wireless.  Wired 
is much different.

James McKenzie

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Re: Networking problem

[James McKenzie]

On 5/14/11 6:40 PM, JD wrote:
> On 05/14/11 18:24, Joe Zeff wrote:
>> On 05/14/2011 01:27 PM, JD wrote:
>>> I also brought the fedora firewall down, and retried to ping Fedora
>>> from Powerbook. No go!!
>> That means that it's not a firewall issue.  Check your router config to
>> see if it's set to allow pings inside the LAN.
> Thanx!
> I checked. The gateway has a built-in feature (program)
> to let you ping any client on the lan (or any ip on the public net).
> The gateway can ping both the powerbook and the fedora pc.
> no problems there.
> The fedora pc and the powerbook can ping the gw, and a third machine
> connected to the GW by ethernet, and can of course ping addresses
> on the public net.
> They (fedora pc and powerbook) cannot ping each other!
> Powerbook firewall is set to promiscuous mode.
> And as I had stated earlier, I even stopped iptables on the
> fedora pc, which puts it also in promiscuous mode (I assume).
> Still these two machines refuse to talk.
>
Can you use traceroute to communicate between the two of them?

James McKenzie

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Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Tim  wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 08:32 -0700, James McKenzie wrote:
>> Would any of us go to a major computer manufacturing company and
>> DEMAND the same thing that we DEMAND of software?  That is:  Give me
>> your latest/greatest for free?
>
> Well, I wish more people would do with computer industries as we expect
> of other companies.  When you sell me a product, it had better bloody
> work properly and safely.  If you sell me a dodgy product, you (the
> company) have to fix it at your cost.
>
Agreed.
> Or would you (the customer) like to shoulder the additional burden of
> fixing up your *new* car's lousy design having crappy brakes, fuel
> injection, seat belts, or anything else?  Simply because the
> manufacturer doesn't give a damn about the product actually being any
> good.
>
Nope.  However, we seem to tolerate this in the software industry.

> Microsoft, et al, probably even the entire computer industry, have
> justly earned the contempt that they receive.  Decades of experience,
> billions of dollars, and still a continual cock-up.

Yep.  I've been through the MS-DOS 4.0 mess and the WindowsME mess and .

>>
>> And no, I don't mind that they are going to take it 'propriatary'
>> either.  They have to do something above and beyond the standard to
>> make us want to purchase it.
>
> I do, I mind that a lot.  At home, I have one telephone on my desk, and
> I can ring anybody on the world with it, no matter what telephone
> network that they're on.

That is because their are strict standards on how a phone MUST work.
Not so for most of our in-use computer products.  There are only two
standards that have existed over the years:  ISA (created by IBM) and
the connectors that are in use.  Everything else is a "Request for
Comment" type document.  This is how we ended up with the mess we have
today.  Back in the 'simple' days, one port -> one product.  SMTP is a
good example, HTTP is another.  Look at the number of ports needed for
some of the products I work with on a daily basis and they use dozens
if not hundreds.

>
> We've had a decade of that incompatibility crap with all the different
> instant messaging schemes, and people just will not learn how dumb,
> stupid, moronic, idiotic, annoying, absolutely brain dead that attitude
> is.

Build a better mousetrap and people will flock to your door.  This is
what happened with Instant Messaging.  However, you cannot move
without loosing something.  And people don't like that.  Just changing
Internet Service Providers proves to be a lengthy process.  The same
may happen when people leave Skype for another service like Vonage.

And I'm not arguing that this is a good or bad thing, it is the way
we've boxed ourselves in.

James McKenzie
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Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:41 AM, JD  wrote:
> On 05/11/11 09:33, Tim wrote:
>> On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 07:52 -0700, JD wrote:
>>> With the kind of money they have, they can buy all
>>> three branches of the government :)
>> Ah, so *that's* what's wrong with government.  It's all branches, and
>> only branches.  No roots, no trunk, no flowers, no fruit.  Just
>> sticks...
>>
>>
> Aye!! Sticks that we are stuck with :)

All planted in a document our 'Government' continues to ignore:  The
US Constitution.

However, this has nothing to do with finding a FOSS alernate to Skype.

James McKenzie
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Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 05/11/2011 08:32 AM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> There iS No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TSNTAAFL).
>
> And that is Yet Another Way to mangle a perfectly good acronym: There
> *Ain't* No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TANSTAAFL).  Bob Heinlein knew
> what he was doing; second-guessing him just messes things up.
My apologies to Mr. Heinlein.  And yes, he was very, very correct.
Living that nightmare everyday.

James McKenzie
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Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Genes MailLists  wrote:
> On 05/11/2011 10:58 AM, JD wrote:
>> I have used Google voice/talk.
>> It is too clumsy, lacks the features of skype.
>
>  Curious what features skype has that are missing ?
>
>  I think the user search feature is missing ... (not sure that is good
> or bad .. depends on your privacy views I suppose?)  Anything else ?
>
Here is some serious food for thought (and no this is not to induce a
flame war, but for those who have a problem with companies 'making
money')

There iS No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TSNTAAFL).  In other words,
Skype had to be making money somehow.  There are and continue to be
data hooks there or you were subject to ads, or other obnoxious stuff.
 I hope this ends with a pay-as-you-go service from Microsoft.
Even your 'free' distributions of Linux have to make money.  Fedora,
primarily sponsored by RedHat does this by relying on technical
support sales (Linux is FREE remember).  OpenOffice.org relied on Sun
and is being thrown to the hounds (we in America call it being thrown
to the curb, in other words taken out in the trash) by Oracle.
Yes, we do provide hours of 'free' support and in some cases hours of
coding efforts.  Most of us have 'day jobs' that put food on the
table.  There comes a time when we either give up the day job or we
give up the project(s) we were working on.
Microsoft/Apple make money, fists full of it.  How?  They sell the
product as well as technical support.  Would any of us go to a major
computer manufacturing company and DEMAND the same thing that we
DEMAND of software?  That is:  Give me your latest/greatest for free?
The folks at most of those companies would laugh and then show us the
door.  Most of us would not think of doing so.  So, when you grumble
that some fabulous software you are using has gone 'commercial' and
now charges for its service, remember TSNTAAFL and that someone is now
relying on that product to put food on the table, a roof over their
head and clothes on their backs.  I don't begrudge Microsoft for
buying Skype.  What I do begrudge is those folks that want something
for nothing (or next to it.)  And no, I don't mind that they are going
to take it 'propriatary' either.  They have to do something above and
beyond the standard to make us want to purchase it.  Remember, there
is a game data exchange standard.  How many companies adhere to it?
None as far as I can count.
Again, do not take this as anything other than a personal opinion on
why this discussion is a waste of time and effort.  Skype has been
bought and there is nothing out there like it.  Not in the Linux world
nor the Windows world.  People will continue to use it in both worlds.

James McKenzie
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Re: wvdial does not disconnect after ctrl-c

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Ranjan Maitra  wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 10:10:37 -0500 James McKenzie
>  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Ranjan Maitra  wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I have been using wvdial (briefly) and I have a strange outcome when I
>> > disconnect. This happens about 90% of the time. About 10% of the time,
>> > it exits cleanly and everything is fine, but my question pertains to
>> > the other 90%.
>> >
>> > So, I hit ctrl-c and get the following
>> >
>> > ^CCaught signal 2:  Attempting to exit gracefully...
>> > %
>> >
>> > There is no wvdial process anymore.
>> >
>> > $ killall wvdial
>> > wvdial: no process found
>> >
>> >
>> > However, the connection is not terminated (the meter is running), and 
>> > indeed,
>> >
>> > $ ps aux | grep wvdial
>> > root      2024  0.0  0.0  50616  2344 pts/0    S    08:39   0:00 
>> > /usr/sbin/pppd 230400 modem crtscts defaultroute usehostname -detach user 
>> > 1 noipdefault call wvdial usepeerdns idle 3600 logfd 6 remotename 0
>>
>> kill -15 2024
>> if that fails
>> kill -9 2024
>> as root
>>
>> This should disconnect you.
>>
>> James McKenzie
>
> Thank you! I guess the answer then is, to try
>
> sudo killall pppd
>
> which should do it?
>
> This works! At least has, this first time around
>
That should work just well.  Most people do not use CNTRL-C to kill
this process.  Usually it is started to run in the background and then
killed using the command you just stated.

James McKenzie
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Re: wvdial does not disconnect after ctrl-c

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Ranjan Maitra  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been using wvdial (briefly) and I have a strange outcome when I
> disconnect. This happens about 90% of the time. About 10% of the time,
> it exits cleanly and everything is fine, but my question pertains to
> the other 90%.
>
> So, I hit ctrl-c and get the following
>
> ^CCaught signal 2:  Attempting to exit gracefully...
> %
>
> There is no wvdial process anymore.
>
> $ killall wvdial
> wvdial: no process found
>
>
> However, the connection is not terminated (the meter is running), and indeed,
>
> $ ps aux | grep wvdial
> root      2024  0.0  0.0  50616  2344 pts/0    S    08:39   0:00 
> /usr/sbin/pppd 230400 modem crtscts defaultroute usehostname -detach user 1 
> noipdefault call wvdial usepeerdns idle 3600 logfd 6 remotename 0

kill -15 2024
if that fails
kill -9 2024
as root

This should disconnect you.

James McKenzie
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Re: Install Fedora on an android tablet or an iPad?

[James McKenzie]

On 5/7/11 1:18 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Linuxguy123 wrote:
>> On Fri, 2011-04-22 at 09:30 -0600, CS_DBA wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Anyone know of any projects / methods to install Fedora on a tablet
>>> like the iPad or an android tablet?
>>>
>>> I have an iPad and I run into things I wish I could do with it every
>>> day. Linux on my tablet would rock!
>> I just bought a Dell Inspiron Duo.
>>
>> Firstly, I'd say its an iPad killer.  Its has USB ports.  It has enough
>> power to run youtube videos.  It does Flash, for better or worse.  It
>> has a 320GB hard drive and 2GB of RAM.  It has Bluetooth, ie it can be
>> tethered to a phone.  It has enough power to run real applications.  And
>> on and on.
>>
>> Probably the biggest downfalls are that it doesn't have a camera and its
>> a bit heavier than an iPad, but it also has a real (usable) keyboard
>> built right in and when you close it up the screen is totally protected.
>>
> The lack of a camera will be a problem for some people.
>
>> As far as Linux goes, I haven't run it (yet) on my Duo, but there are
>> videos on youtube of it running Ubuntu Unity in a pretty snappy fashion.
>>
>> If you (or others) want to run Linux on a Tablet, I'd say its a very
>> good place to start.  I'll let everyone know when I get around to
>> installing it.
>>
> The world awaits your progress.
>
>> The other thing to be aware of is that the KDE team is working on
>> something called Plasma-Active.  I recommend Googling it.
>>
> Yes, now that GNOME is adopting a "you will do it the way we like it" attitude
> I'm looking at other WM options.
>
And this is a problem, how?  Remember, we do have options.  Windows and 
MacOSX users don't.

Gnome is 'dumbing' down, as I've stated several times, here and to 
others in the RH network, to capture those who are not happy with 
Windows and the repeated problems they have encountered.  Progress on 
the Wine project has helped immensely in this effort as well.  I do 
expect to see a growth aspect as people move from Windows with its 
inherent problems to a much more stable workstation platform, Linux.  We 
just have to make it 'friendly' and we will be further along...

Then we can hope that some of them will 'look under the hood' and 
realize there are better performing WMs for their purposes.

James McKenzie

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Re: ecryptfs and password

[James McKenzie]

On 5/7/11 12:54 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 5/1/11 5:18 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>>> Gregory Hosler wrote:
>>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> On 04/25/2011 09:48 AM, Digimer wrote:
>>>>> On 04/24/2011 09:46 PM, ssc1478 wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm new to Fedora - been using Ubuntu for years.  I just installed
>>>>>> Fedora 14 to my laptop and selected to encrypt /home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I boot, I have to enter the password for the encrypted directory.
>>>>>>  Did I set it up wrong?  I didn't expect to have to enter the 
>>>>>> password
>>>>>> at boot but instead thought the login password would be enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>> It encrypts the partition, so when the system tries to mount /etc/fstab
>>>>> partitions, of which /home is likely one, it requires the password then.
>>>> alternately, you can setup /etc/crypttab so that the password is not 
>>>> entered
>>>> manually.
>>>>
>>> This adds no security at all from the encryption. The only reason to use
>>> encryption and then build in the pass phrase is to allow you to claim that 
>>> the
>>> data was encrypted if you lose the machine, therefore giving you legal 
>>> cover if
>>> the data you lost belongs to customers. I can't decide if that's a sleazy 
>>> legal
>>> trick to provide cover without the effort to have security, or if it just 
>>> shows
>>> how little the average user knows about security in the first place.
>> False security is worse than no security at all.  Never store a
>> passphrase on a readable device.  It should be stored in the brain, just
>> like passwords and such.  BTW, this would never pass a security
>> inspection at any of the places I've worked at.
>>
> It satisfies legal requirements to encrypt sensitive data which is all the 
> bean
> counters and lawyers care about. They are not required to actually protect 
> your
> information. :-(
>
Not in the EU.  There are legal requirements to safeguard information, 
to include encryption of 'data at rest' and 'data in transit'.  Same for 
HIPPA and in the PCI world.  This has gotten several companies in trouble.

James McKenzie

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Re: Fedora14 is filling up my HDD without a reason

[James McKenzie]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:32 AM, Genes MailLists  wrote:
> On 05/05/2011 11:04 PM, Aradenatorix Veckhom Vacelaevus wrote:
>> Hi again:
>>
>
>> /var:
>> /cache 2.3 GB
>
>  As root in a terminal do:
>
>     yum clean all
>
>  Your cache needs a scrub.

du -s /var/cache/yum or du -h /var/cache/yum will tell you how much
space yum is taking up.  Yes, you can brute force cleaning of that
directory using rm but it is best to use the yum clean all command.

James McKenzie
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Re: [OT] Need Some Help Here...

[James McKenzie]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 13:33 -0500, Manuel Escudero wrote:
>> I needed that service LaunchRock to use it on a new Webapp I'm
>> helping to develop here... But well, anyway, I got access to the
>> service
>
> And we are left none the wiser.
>
You can lead a horse to water, even force its head under it, drown it,
and it will still not drink.  Some people are like that.  Super-thick
is what we call them in the Security world.  Fun to watch them, not
fun to work with them.

James McKenzie
CISSP #36780
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Re: Mounting apple .dmg files in fedora

[James McKenzie]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Richard Shaw  wrote:
> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:40 PM, James McKenzie  
> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:08 AM, JD  wrote:
>>> I tried to mount an Apple .dmg file like so:
>>>
>>> mount -t hfs  -o loop ximg.dmg /mnt/dmg
>>> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0,
>>>        missing codepage or helper program, or other error
>>>        In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
>>>        dmesg
>>>
>>> Well, the blogs say this should work.
>>> I even tried  -t hfsplus  with the same result.
>>>
>>> Am I missing a relevant package?
>>>
>>> I have hfsplus-tools-332.14-11.fc13.i686
>>> installed, and F14 has no higher rev update for it,
>>> at least according to yum.
>>
>> Apple .dmg files are compressed High Performance File System files
>> (hpfs), not hfs.  I don't know if Fedora can or even should mount them
>
> Yes, they appear to be compressed but I think you're mistaken on the
> file system. Googling HPFS and Apple seemed to indicate the HPFS was
> more of an OS/2 format and that HFS+ was the current file system.
>
Thank you for the correction on the file system type.

> I think the problem is that the image is compressed. One site
> recommended using "file" to see if it was helpful, i.e.:
>
> file .dmg

Interesting.  Might prove useful for troubleshooting corrupt .dmg files.

James McKenzie
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Re: Mounting apple .dmg files in fedora

[James McKenzie]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:08 AM, JD  wrote:
> I tried to mount an Apple .dmg file like so:
>
> mount -t hfs  -o loop ximg.dmg /mnt/dmg
> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0,
>        missing codepage or helper program, or other error
>        In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
>        dmesg
>
> Well, the blogs say this should work.
> I even tried  -t hfsplus  with the same result.
>
> Am I missing a relevant package?
>
> I have hfsplus-tools-332.14-11.fc13.i686
> installed, and F14 has no higher rev update for it,
> at least according to yum.

Apple .dmg files are compressed High Performance File System files
(hpfs), not hfs.  I don't know if Fedora can or even should mount them

James McKenzie
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Re: howto boot from usb iso?

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Neal Becker  wrote:
>> Unfortunately, many newer USB keys come with "U3" Windows software (badware?)
>
> Precisely one of the good things abonut U3 is that you can boot from a
> ISO image without having a usb cd/dvd
>
> http://www.mcgrewsecurity.com/pub/hackingu3/
>
> ie replace the U3 boot .iso image with the iso of your choice
>
> The device emulates a usb hub and a usb optical drive, at the hardware
> level, in addition to the flash partition. That allows booting iso
> images everywhere
This explains what is being seen.  I need to get one of these for my
old Thinkpad if this allows booting from a system that does not
natively boot from USB.

James McKenzie
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Re: howto boot from usb iso?

[James McKenzie]

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Neal Becker  wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
>
>> Tim Evans wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2011 10:21 AM, Neal Becker wrote:
>>>> I tried copying f15 tc1 iso to my 16G usb using dd, but laptop doesn't try
>>>> to
>>>> boot from it.  I did change boot order at power up.
>>>
>>> https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Doesn't seem to work.  I get:
>> Unsupported filesystem: iso9660
>>
>
> One thing I don't understand, is this USB key shows up as 2 devices.
>
> /dev/sr1 (101M) iso9660
This appears to be the live-USB boot

> /dev/sdc (16G) unallocated space

That is the remaining space on the device.

Can you boot from USB on your device?  There should be a MBR on the
device as well...

James McKenzie
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Re: ecryptfs and password

[James McKenzie]

On 5/1/11 5:18 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Gregory Hosler wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 04/25/2011 09:48 AM, Digimer wrote:
>>> On 04/24/2011 09:46 PM, ssc1478 wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'm new to Fedora - been using Ubuntu for years.  I just installed
>>>> Fedora 14 to my laptop and selected to encrypt /home.
>>>>
>>>> When I boot, I have to enter the password for the encrypted directory.
>>>>Did I set it up wrong?  I didn't expect to have to enter the password
>>>> at boot but instead thought the login password would be enough.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>> It encrypts the partition, so when the system tries to mount /etc/fstab
>>> partitions, of which /home is likely one, it requires the password then.
>> alternately, you can setup /etc/crypttab so that the password is not entered
>> manually.
>>
> This adds no security at all from the encryption. The only reason to use
> encryption and then build in the pass phrase is to allow you to claim that the
> data was encrypted if you lose the machine, therefore giving you legal cover 
> if
> the data you lost belongs to customers. I can't decide if that's a sleazy 
> legal
> trick to provide cover without the effort to have security, or if it just 
> shows
> how little the average user knows about security in the first place.
False security is worse than no security at all.  Never store a 
passphrase on a readable device.  It should be stored in the brain, just 
like passwords and such.  BTW, this would never pass a security 
inspection at any of the places I've worked at.

James McKenzie

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Re: Anyone using a USB wireless dongle as access point on fedora?

[James McKenzie]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Greg Woods  wrote:
>>
>> There are ways that these worries can be addressed and we do.
>
> What you decribe seems OK.
>
> What I find stupid is when you have 20 people on desks using Wi-Fi
> because management is too cheap or lazy to install proper
> networking...
>
> Then the entire corporate network security depends on the strength of WPA2...
>
Ask TJX about the WAP gap and what kind of fun it can create.

James McKenzie
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Re: Anyone using a USB wireless dongle as access point on fedora?

[James McKenzie]

On 4/24/11 8:28 PM, Tim wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-04-24 at 17:22 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> I should also be sure to setup wireless security
>> and not broadcast my SSID, etc. (so as not to
>> attract the MIS department's attention, who
>> would surely tell me I'm not allowed no matter
>> how secure I make the interface :-).
> If they're doing their job, then not broadcasting your SSID isn't going
> to help.  It's just a name being transmitted in part of the traffic.
> You're still transmitting, and some other parts of those transmissions
> provide identifying information.
>
The SSID is broadcast from the client to the AP.  You would have to be 
sniffing at the same time that a connection is being made.  WPA2 is 
supposed to 'suppress' this information...

James McKenzie

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