Re: F18 download won't burn to CD.

[William Case]

On Mon, 2013-05-13 at 10:23 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 05/13/13 10:11, William Case wrote:
> > On Sun, 2013-05-12 at 20:36 -0400, Jim wrote:
> >> On 05/12/2013 07:42 PM, William Case wrote:
> >>> I suspect stupidity on my part because I see no questions on the list or
> >>> google about my problem.
> >>>
> >>> I have an older computer that I want to upgrade the OS to Fedora 18.  I
> >>> have downloaded Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-Desktop.iso (960.5 mb)on to a
> >>> newer machine.   I want to burn it to a CD (700 mb) or install it some
> >>> other way on the older machine which only has CD drives.
> >>>
> >>> None of the instructions tell me how.  There used to be a specific live
> >>> version for a CD. Either I am blind, stupid or ignorant.  Could you
> >>> pleas tell me which and how I may be able to get that old machine
> >>> running
> >>>
> >>> P.S. using a network is out of the question.  The eth0 card is broken.
> >>> That is what started this whole mess.
> >>>
> >> Check the size of your download, it most likely is larger than a CD (700mb)
> >> A 32 bit version of Fedora 18 is 805 mb .
> > Oh it is.  It is 960.5mb.  It obviously won't fit on a CD.  My question
> > is: Did I miss something and there is a a) CD sized live disk download,
> > b) a way to make one (easily), or c) another way to get the F18 on to my
> > old machine?
> >
> > I can't do it over a network because the Old Machine had a broken eth0
> > and I have installed a new eth1 card.  I am trying to get the eth1 card
> > working which is why I thought I would upgrade my OS first.
> 
> The path of least resistance may be to use the Xfce Spin or LXDE Spin as both 
> are less than 700mb and will fit on a CD.  Depending on your HW, it may not 
> even support the new GNOME-Shell so one of those spins may actually suit your 
> needs better?
> 
> In any event, after you get either of those spins installed you can get your 
> new network card working and install a second desktopas long as you have 
> sufficient disk space.
> 
> Can we also assume your old machine can't boot from USB?

Thanks for the reply Ed;

I haven't tried the USB.  Never had a use for the USB when it was new.
Gives you an idea of dates.  I have downloaded and burned the LXDE Spin.
It will work.  Tried it as Live disk on my new machine.

Some further details.  The old computer was used by a non-computer
literate, perhaps I should say phobic, step-son.  His main use was
emails and football scores.  He tripped over the line leading to his
embedded nic.  I have installed a new card.  We now have two eth;  eth0
(the embedded nic)  and eth1 the new card.  I have to figure out how to
get the eth1 to connect automatically to the internet for him.  Frankly
I haven't play with Linux and Fedora for a few years (3 or 4).  I could
you a couple of quick suggestions on how to get started making the
change over.  I know Fedora now uses emX designation.  A pointer in the
right direction to make the change would be helpful, if you think I need
them.

-- 
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Fedora 16, Gnome 3.2.1
Evo.3.2.3, Emacs 23.3.1

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Re: F18 download won't burn to CD.

[William Case]

On Sun, 2013-05-12 at 20:36 -0400, Jim wrote:
> On 05/12/2013 07:42 PM, William Case wrote:
> > I suspect stupidity on my part because I see no questions on the list or
> > google about my problem.
> >
> > I have an older computer that I want to upgrade the OS to Fedora 18.  I
> > have downloaded Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-Desktop.iso (960.5 mb)on to a
> > newer machine.   I want to burn it to a CD (700 mb) or install it some
> > other way on the older machine which only has CD drives.
> >
> > None of the instructions tell me how.  There used to be a specific live
> > version for a CD. Either I am blind, stupid or ignorant.  Could you
> > pleas tell me which and how I may be able to get that old machine
> > running
> >
> > P.S. using a network is out of the question.  The eth0 card is broken.
> > That is what started this whole mess.
> >
> Check the size of your download, it most likely is larger than a CD (700mb)
> A 32 bit version of Fedora 18 is 805 mb .

Oh it is.  It is 960.5mb.  It obviously won't fit on a CD.  My question
is: Did I miss something and there is a a) CD sized live disk download,
b) a way to make one (easily), or c) another way to get the F18 on to my
old machine?

I can't do it over a network because the Old Machine had a broken eth0
and I have installed a new eth1 card.  I am trying to get the eth1 card
working which is why I thought I would upgrade my OS first.
-- 
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Evo.3.2.3, Emacs 23.3.1

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F18 download won't burn to CD.

[William Case]

I suspect stupidity on my part because I see no questions on the list or
google about my problem.  

I have an older computer that I want to upgrade the OS to Fedora 18.  I
have downloaded Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-Desktop.iso (960.5 mb)on to a
newer machine.   I want to burn it to a CD (700 mb) or install it some
other way on the older machine which only has CD drives.

None of the instructions tell me how.  There used to be a specific live
version for a CD. Either I am blind, stupid or ignorant.  Could you
pleas tell me which and how I may be able to get that old machine
running 

P.S. using a network is out of the question.  The eth0 card is broken.
That is what started this whole mess.

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Fedora 16, Gnome 3.2.1
Evo.3.2.3, Emacs 23.3.1

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Quit simplifying, streamlining and improving

[William Case]

Hi;

I have been away from the Fedora Users list for quite awhile. I am doing
a virgin install of Fedora 18.  I have had the damnedest time getting
"Serious Cow" downloaded.  It is done.  But one message.  Quit
simplifying, streamlining and improving things without telling people.

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lost gnote dilemma / curiosity !?

[William Case]

Hi;

I have lost one gnote.  I was opening a six month old note, gnote
crashed and I lost that note -- only that one note.  It had some data on
it that is important to me.  I have a couple of different ways I have
backed up gnote files so ultimately I an not concerned.  But here is my
question.

Since it is only one note, I thought that perhaps I could just find a
way to point the gnote application at an older file (an rsynced copy)
find my one note copy and paste it into my current gnote file and be
done.  No, no, no.  It turns out not to be that easy. Does anybody have
any suggestions?  Can I use my currently running application or open a
second one from the command line (?).  How would I target one of my
backup files?

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Evo.3.2.3, Emacs 23.3.1

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Re: [Bulk] re-mapping an older disk ??

[William Case]

On Wed, 2012-02-22 at 11:25 -0500, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> I have some hard disk problems, every thing I try just keeps digging a
> deeper hole.
> SMART Data
> 
> Disk HAS MANY BAD SECTORS
> Backup all data and replace the disk
> 
> Current Pending Sector Count
> Number of sectors waiting to be remapped
> 
> Problem(s) could also be mixed with my trying to set up and use LVM for
> the first time. !!  If anyone recognizes a LVM problem please let me
> know?  Could also be from physicaly switching two 500g harddrives
> around?
> 
> Diagnosis suggestions would be welcome.  
> 
> 
> googled for suggested fix because the disk is not that old.  Got the dd
> suggestion below.  Looks destructive.
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M conv=noerror
> 
In case I wasn't clear,its not so much that I need a solution but need
some suggestions on how to sort out which is the main problem.

1) Hardware from switching the disk's order around (channel 1 <==>
channel 2 in BIOS)
2) Improperly installing or using LVM
3) Remapping
4) Hard drive really is broken.

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Evo.3.2.3, Emacs 23.3.1

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re-mapping an older disk ??

[William Case]

Hi;

I have some hard disk problems, every thing I try just keeps digging a
deeper hole.
SMART Data

Disk HAS MANY BAD SECTORS
Backup all data and replace the disk

Current Pending Sector Count
Number of sectors waiting to be remapped

Problem(s) could also be mixed with my trying to set up and use LVM for
the first time. !!  If anyone recognizes a LVM problem please let me
know?  Could also be from physicaly switching two 500g harddrives
around?

Diagnosis suggestions would be welcome.  


googled for suggested fix because the disk is not that old.  Got the dd
suggestion below.  Looks destructive.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M conv=noerror

SMART Data -- warning

Disk HAS MANY BAD SECTORS
Backup all data and replace the disk

Current Pending Sector Count
Number of sectors waiting to be remapped


Problem(s) could also be mixed with my trying to set up and use LVM for
the first time. !!  If anyone recognizes a LVM problem please let me
know?  

Could also be from physicaly switching two 500g harddrives around?

Diagnosis suggestions would be welcome.  

googled for suggested fix because the disk is not that old.  Got the dd
suggestion below.  Looks destructive.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M conv=noerror



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Evo.3.0.2, Emacs 23.2.1

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Stuck and Frustrated : Try to get from Live CD to Desktop system Fedora 16.

[William Case]

Hi:

I used to be able to get from a rescue disk to my system with a chroot
command.  Been trying all morning to get from my live cd into my desktop
root to make repairs.  I have tried every thing I can think of.  My
system is tantalizingly close.  I can see it, but I can't get to it.  

What should I be doing?

For some reason I am getting a warning that my root directory is full.
Thought I had fixed it.  Apparently not.  So now I need to get at it
from the Live CD, ???
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Log not rotating in Fedora 16.

[William Case]

Hi;
I get the following warning on boot up "The volume "File system root"
has only 249.6 MiB disk space remaining".  I think I have traced the
problem to syslog not rotating. Messages-x in /var/log/ is up to 1.4
+ GiB.  How would you suggest I get the proper log rotation?  Or, where
else do you suggest I look?
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Fedora 16, Gnome 3.2
Evo.3.2.2, Emacs 23.3.1

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Another Fedora 16 + Gnome 3.2 question!?

[William Case]

Thanks Olav;

On Wed, 2012-01-04 at 22:10 +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 04:04:16PM -0500, William Case wrote:
> > How do I get rid of the Universal Access icon in the upper right hand
> > corner/panel?  Googled but seems every distribution has a different
> > answer.  How do I get rid of it in Fedora 16, preferably using the
> > icon-manage extension in dconf-editor if there is such away.  Nothing I
> > have tried seems to work.  Everything found on the internet is either
> > out of date or doesn't work.
> 
> There is an extension for that on https://extensions.gnome.org/. Just go
> there with Firefox.

The best advice so far was the URL for this extensions site.

Now, how do you download and install a new extension from here?
Anything I have read is out of the dark ages involving torture and
incantations with 'git' and 'make'.  There has to be a more modern and
sophisticated way.
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Fedora 16, Gnome 3.2
Evo.3.2.2, Emacs 23.3.1

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Another Fedora 16 + Gnome 3.2 question!?

[William Case]

Hi;

How do I get rid of the Universal Access icon in the upper right hand
corner/panel?  Googled but seems every distribution has a different
answer.  How do I get rid of it in Fedora 16, preferably using the
icon-manage extension in dconf-editor if there is such away.  Nothing I
have tried seems to work.  Everything found on the internet is either
out of date or doesn't work.
-- 
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Fedora 16, Gnome 3.2
Evo.3.2.2, Emacs 23.3.1

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Gnote + Gome 3

[William Case]

Hi;

You can't always believe what you read !?

Google shows several conversations about gnote not yet being integrated
into gnome. Yet in Fedora 15 I had a little menu icon on a bottom panel
task bar/ notification area.  I have no remembrance of putting it there,
but it just seemed to show up one day.  So I don't know how to get it
back in Fedora 16.  I have tried everything I can think of.

Gnote has become one of my most important aids to writing.  How can I
get it back so that it is handy?  And, get it so that I don't have to
open the search menu with it?  I used to have a recently used notes
list.

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Fedora 16, Gnome 3.2
Evo.3.2.2, Emacs 23.3.1

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Gnome3 RFE discussion !?

[William Case]

Hi;

I am looking for suggestions of where I can get this conversation going
with some people who would like to participate in such a conversation. 
I have tried the Gnome users list but no takers.  My interest is in
exploring the ideas expressed here before taking them forward as a
request for enhancement.

I want to go forward not back.  I would like to see Gnome get rid of all
panels, task bars, and extraneous doodads in my work spaces.  I want
instead to use dockers, multiple dockers that I can call up by short cut
key, mouse motion or from the activities space.

I would like the dockers to have all the properties of a file, an icon,
a launcher and a panel or several different panels.  

I want to be able to create a new different docker on the Activities
window, place launchers and files in the docker and name it.  That way I
can have a main application running in a work space but also a docker
that contains subsidiary programs that I use often while working in that
application.

I can then design or load dockers that would have applications or what
used to be applets that are apropos to the type of work I was doing
and/or the main application I was using.  I would have several different
kinds of dockers these created by me to pick and choose from.

I would like the dockers to be made visible on my desktop/workspace the
same way I can make a main program visible.  I.E. drag and drop it in a
workspace in the activities window.

I would like the docker to appear on my workspace as a small icon that
could be opened like a file to see all of the subsidiary applications or
functions I have available to me.  I would like the docker not to be
restricted to a bar shape, but be able to re-size and re-shape it much
the same way as a application window by grabbing the edges or bottom
right corner.

There are many other considerations that could go into this design, but
essentially I would like to get rid of the desktop metaphor and instead
make my workspaces project and work oriented.  

I do more than one kind of thing on my computer.  I want to be able to
easily write an article in LibreOffice using all my tools such as
dictionary, thesaurus and character map for writing.  Then, say, switch
to something completely unrelated like working with music or photographs
in another workspace and have a docker for each of those that contained
music subsidiary applications, or browsing the internet.  I would like
to have a docker where I kept all my system tools.  The menu would serve
me as the place to find the items I wanted to put in my various dockers
or to store programs seldom used.

Is anybody interested in this kind of concept and/or discussion?

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Fedora 15, Gnome 3.0.2
Evo.3.0.2, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: Getting a list of applications and packages on my Fedora machine !? -- Just a comment.

[William Case]

On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 13:01 -0500, Genes MailLists wrote:
> > 
> 
>   I guess groups are a purely an initial install convenience and offer
> no advantages beyond that - in which case if one wants to ensure that an
> install has all packages of a previous install - then simply ignoring
> groups and doing
> 
>   yum list installed | (clever script or human) > fixinstall.sh
> 
>   on older fedora, and copying it to new fedora install
> 
>  will allow one to run fixinstall.sh on the nand install any missed
> packages.
> 
>   This is what i've done for years ... groups could have shortened the
> script I suppose but they aren't important.
> 
>  gene

I will try both your suggestion and Tom Horsley's.  Haven gotten a list
of what is installed currently I want to edit it to not only add new
applications but, since I like to experiment, remove applications that I
have decided I do not want to renew.

Thanks everyone!

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Getting a list of applications and packages on my Fedora machine !?

[William Case]

I think I remember reading a suggestion here about how to get a list of
the main or core programs on my machine.  It was -- I think -- an rpm or
yum list command of some kind + grep.  I don't want every plugin or
update or library just the main program.

I am about to do a virgin install of Fedora 16 (because its about time I
started fresh rather than with preupgarde again ) and I would like to
get a simple editable list of all the stuff I now have. 

It was one of those things that you say "hey neat" but don't save.  Now
I can't replicate it.

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Compiz - "ERROR with rpm_check_debug vs depsolve:" !?

[William Case]

"
ERROR with rpm_check_debug vs depsolve:
compiz-fusion-extras = 0.8.6 is needed by
compiz-fusion-extras-gnome-0.8.6-1.fc14.x86_64
Please report this error at http://yum.baseurl.org/report "

I get the above warning when trying to update compiz.  I have tried yum
remove compiz and get another warning about being unable to remove it.
]# "Remove   10 Package(s)

Installed size: 22 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y
Downloading Packages:
Running rpm_check_debug
ERROR with rpm_check_debug vs depsolve:
compiz-fusion-extras = 0.8.6 is needed by (installed)
compiz-fusion-extras-gnome-0.8.6-1.fc14.x86_64
Please report this error in http://yum.baseurl.org/report
** Found 2 pre-existing rpmdb problem(s), 'yum check' output follows:
compiz-fusion-extras-gnome-0.8.6-1.fc14.x86_64 has missing requires of
compiz-fusion-extras = ('0', '0.8.6', None)
libpanelappletmm-2.26.0-2.fc12.x86_64 has missing requires of
libpanel-applet-2.so.0()(64bit)
Your transaction was saved, rerun it with: yum
load-transaction /tmp/yum_save_tx-2011-12-13-05-55T7wDn2.yumtx"

Have tried several different gyrations of yum and I am getting nowhere.
I have had this upgrade problem with compiz for a couple of months now.
Any suggestions ?

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Evo.3.0.2, Emacs 23.2.1

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Compiz download problems ?

[William Case]

I am getting the following warnings when I try to update.

ERROR with rpm_check_debug vs depsolve:
compiz-fusion-extras = 0.8.6 is needed by
compiz-fusion-extras-gnome-0.8.6-1.fc14.x86_64
Please report this error at http://yum.baseurl.org/report

Test Transaction Errors:   file /usr/lib64/compiz/libgrid.so from
install of compiz-plugins-main-0.9.5.0-1.fc15.x86_64 conflicts with file
from package compiz-fusion-extras-0.9.4-1.fc15.x86_64

I have stopped all compiz, emerald and ccsm updates and the rest of my
updates upload without problems.

Is anybody else having this problem or should I file a bug?

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Gnome 3 -- liking it more each day !?

[William Case]

Hi; 

Would like to have a conversation about somethings I would like to see
added to Gnome 3.  If I can get some agreement or advice, I will submit
it as a Request for Enhancement to Gnome.

After using Gnome 3 for about 3 weeks I really, really, want a toolbox
or several of them.  A toolbox is combination of the current Desktop
file, a file, a favourites bar and a docker. Here is how I see a toolbox
working.  

Toolbox:
A toolbox is no more than a file or container into which I could put
programs and applets which used to go on my panel.  The problem with the
panel was that I had to put all my 'tools' on the panel even though I
only used a few of them at a time depending on the project I was working
on.  I kept my projects separated on desktops or workspaces or
viewports.

Going from desktop to overview to open one tool after another as I need
it is a bit of a PIA.  Putting all of my tools ahead of time on a
desktop is a messy PIA.  I don't want to revert to a half-assed version
of Gnome 2.  I really like the cleanliness and motions, and key strokes
of Gnome 3.

In overview:
a) I would be able to open a file shown as a toolbox icon and drag and
drop those 'tool' programs or applets that I use regularly for one type
of job or project. I could then close it with only the icon view of the
toolbox file showing.
b) The toolbox file icon would automatically be stored in the
applications (menu) view.
c) From the Applications view, if I wished, I could drag and drop the
file into the favourites bar/view, or replace the favourites bar
entirely with my toolbox file.
d) I could if I wished drag the toolbox file onto a desktop from either
the favourites bar or from the Applications view.
e) Could make as many toolboxes as I wanted.

By the way, I understand that applets are gone in gnome 3 and will be
replaced, perhaps, over time with stand alone applications.  But the
older terminology is convenient.

On the desktop:
1) when I opened a desktop containing a toolbox along with the major
application I was about to use, the toolbox icon would appear on the
desktop, not opened but as an icon, like an iconized version of the
docker.
2) when I needed an application from the toolbox I could click on it or
Alt+Tab to it and it would open displaying all my tools. 
3) within the toolbox file I could select an application or applet which
I could then click on or ALT-Tab to and run that tool  application.
4) on closing the tool application it would be returned to the toolbox.
5) the toolbox when opened would be movable and reshape-able with the
usual handles.

With the above described 'toolbox' I could get all the extraneous icons
that I now have off of my desktop.  I could have only those tools which
I use most often for each kind of job or project handy. And I could have
the equivalent of a clean and simple panel that I could place anywhere
in in any shape I wished.

I think most of the elements of what I am asking for are already
available in Gnome3.

> Couldn't a toolbox be like a dock? tooldock?

Very much.  But I see a couple of extra advantages. I could create a
toolbox ahead of time and keep it in my applications menu. I could place
it and reshape on my it desktop as I wanted.  I could make the toolbox
icon appear on my desktop as small and as unobtrusive as I wanted.  And
I could have several toolboxes with different content for different
jobs, projects or uses.

The Gnome3 developers have put much greater emphasis on using desktops.
I like that.  The only drawback I keep running into is that my smaller
tools are no longer easily available. For example, when I am working in
Writer, I am used to using the Dictionary, Thesaurus, character selector
and calculator applets.  My main browser is Firefox kept on a different
desktop, but I am used to using epiphany for a quick web lookup.  I have
a couple of other writing tools.  Altogether maybe 7
applets/applications that I use fairly regularly when I am writing
something.  

My panel and desktop used to have over 30 icons, because I wanted access
to them when I was doing something else, say graphics.  In graphics I
mainly used Inkscape, but I wanted the Gimp launcher handy as well as
agave and a few other graphics applets and applications.  Here too I
would want epiphany to search for images.  But I don't need quick access
to all my writing tools.  I would therefore like to be able to configure
different toolboxes for different tasks.

I don't think what I am suggesting is much different from the way most
people work however they choose to divide up their desktop usage.

TWO MORE WANTS!

I would like the Gnome developers to double check that everything that
can be done on a keyboard can also be done with a mouse movement or
click.  For example, I would like to have a mouse equivalent to Ctrl+Alt
+up arrow/down arrow.  Perhaps a brisk up or down motion with the mouse
cursor -- or something. It is the constant switching and reaching from
the keyboard to the mouse and back agai

Just a thought about Gnome3's window title bar.

[William Case]

When I see how clean a window can be, metacity, I started wondering if
the widow title bar is even needed.  It seems to come from the Microsoft
tradition.  On my screen the title bar takes up 3/8" vertically.  Two
windows open on the same desktop and you have lost 3/4" of real estate.
Meanwhile the menu bar at most uses 4" to 5" horizontally, the rest is
just wasted space.  I wonder if someone can think through a new
arrangement? 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: Gnome3 a discussion about submiting some Requests for Enhancement.

[William Case]

Thanks Raul and Stephen;

On Mon, 2011-08-15 at 20:33 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 08/15/2011 07:22 PM, William Case wrote:
> >
> > 1) I would like to have a right hand hot spot or screen edge 
> 
> Use  gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner.  Available in the Fedora repo
> 
> >
> > 3) To make me content, at least for a short while, I would like to be
> > able to designate which workspace applications opened in in in the
> > startup file.
> 
> Use gnome-shell-extensions-auto-move-windows.  Available in the Fedora repo
> 
> Rahul

The biggest lesson learned all the Fedora 15 Gnome shell extensions can
be found in the repo by the using 'gnome-shell' as the search criteria
in the "Add/Remove Packages".  I wish that was more prominently
displayed.  I looked everywhere and read the release notes etc. 


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Gnome3 a discussion about submiting some Requests for Enhancement.

[William Case]

Hi; 

I have posted similar comments on the Gnome user's list, but since I am
looking to share opinions (the more the merrier)  and not looking for
help, I don't think I am breaking any kind of netiquette.

I have been playing with Gnome3 for a day now, and once I got the full
realization through my thick head that everything bounces of the
'overview', Gnome3 became quite enjoyable to use.  There are some
proposed enhancements that I have, that I would like to share and
discuss.

1) I would like to have a right hand hot spot or screen edge so
that when the mouse cursor hovers over or near the right edge I get the
overview but with the full view of the workspaces on the right so that I
can just click on a new/different workspace.  There is a right edge hot
spot within the overview already that is used to show the full workspace
bar.  Couldn't the same action be within a workspace to get to the
overview.

2) It just strikes me that if you are working with the mouse, you should
be able to do all the basics with the mouse.  Similarly if you are
working with the keyboard, everything should be available by keystroke.

When you are using the keyboard, for example, using the 'Windows Logo'
key to get to the overview, you can move up and down the workspaces bar
using CTRL+ALT+up/down, but the workspace bar does not expand so that
you can see the images unless you use your mouse to hover over it.
Shouldn't the bar expand as soon as you make the the first CTRL+ALT
+up/down move?  Similarly, when using the CTRL+ALT+up/down to select a
new workspace, shouldn't  open that new workspace?  I know you
can get the same effect by using the Logo key, but  is such an
intuitive motion.

3) To make me content, at least for a short while, I would like to be
able to designate which workspace applications opened in in in the
startup file.  For example, I do a lot of writing.  When I login or
re-boot, I would like several programs to start.  I would like Firefox
to be open in one workspace, evolution and X-chat open in another
workspace, and all my writing tools -- OOo Writer, dictionary, thesaurus
and calculator available in another workspace.  I have fancier requests
for this but they can wait.

Just checking with the user's list to see if I am alone, or if I should
file a request for enhancement with Gnome.

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Re: Some minor(grrr...) Gnome3 irritations

[William Case]

Hi Roger; 

I have discovered a couple of things this afternoon

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 18:49 -0400, Roger K. Wells wrote:
> On 08/14/2011 11:02 AM, William Case wrote:
> >he work area icon on my panel.
> Lack of work areas/view ports/task areas is why I have stayed away from 
> F15 so far.
> I know I will give in some time but ...
> Roger Wells
> > Is there any equivalent way to group work or jobs? I know applications
> > come pre-organized by function.  I want something were I can open any
> > kind of application grouped with other applications for personally
> > designated projects or tasks.

The Fedora 15 version of Gnome3 is missing some of the shortcuts that
already exist in other distributions of Gnome3.  See the

 https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet

The "Windows" key goes a long way for making up for the loss of a panel
and the workspaces icon.  One could use the "Windows" key and the
Alt-Tab to move around handily. I would request a right hand side edge
cursor motion or sensitive strip to automatically open/show the
workspace strip.  After playing for a day what I do miss is quick access
to my calculator, dictionary, thesaurus and gnotes whichever workspace I
am working in. 
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Some minor(grrr...) Gnome3 irritations

[William Case]

Hi; Just preupdated/updated to FC15 with Gnome3.  There is lots to like
in the new Gnome and I am sure once I get familiar with moving around in
it and getting set up with the way I like to work, every thing will be
fine.  But today I need some help.

It doesn't bother most other people, but my sense of neatness and
efficiency rebels at the idea of many windows open and overlapping at
the same time.  I became very attached to the work areas, or view ports,
or task areas, where I could open different applications for different
tasks and keep applications organized that way and move back and forth
by clicking on the work area icon on my panel.

Is there any equivalent way to group work or jobs? I know applications
come pre-organized by function.  I want something were I can open any
kind of application grouped with other applications for personally
designated projects or tasks.


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Intriquing little FB (and other web) problem. Adding spaces or tabs to posts.

[William Case]

Hi; 

FaceBook and other messaging programs remove excess spaces.  That is
fine for most posts, but occasionally I want to retain my columnar
formatting.  I am will to insert a ctl-u unicode formula for space or
tab if such can be found.  I know I can send my data as an image, but I
am looking for something the is quick and dirty that I can use on the
fly.  E.G. on FB now  sends the post but  can be
used to end a line and start a new paragraph.

Any suggestions??


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Re: A question from the truly dumb?

[William Case]

On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 11:44 -0400, nathan forbes wrote:
> 
> On May 27, 2011 11:34 AM, "William Case"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > More and more I have noticed the use of a double colon [::]in coding
> > explanations but have not noticed it actually used anywhere.  Does
> it
> > mean anything other than being used as a format.
> >
> > For example, in a recent repo description:
> >
> >perl-DateTime-Format-Natural
> >Description :
> >DateTime::Format::Natural takes a string with a human
> readable
> >date/time and creates a machine readable one by applying
> natural
> >parsing logic.
> >
> > rsync uses the :: in its a man pages.  There it seems to indicate a
> > remote machine, but doesn't seem to be required.
> >
> > Just something I have been meaning to ask for a long time.
> >
> > --
> > Regards Bill
> > Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
> > Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1
> >
> > --
> > users mailing list
> > users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> 
> Well Perl and C++ use it as part of their syntax. In your example, the
> module DateTime contains Format which contains Natural. So the full
> name of Natural would be DateTime::Format::Natural.
> 
> And in C++ it's used to display the scope of namespaces and classes,
> and so on. For example if you had something like:
> 
> namespace example {
> class Hello {
> static int myMethod();
> }
> }
> 
> In order to call myMethod() you would do example::Hello::myMethod().
> 
Thanks Nathan.  Have played around with C but never C++ or Perl, so that
explains my ignorance.  Tried checking online.  Google got confused.

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A question from the truly dumb?

[William Case]

Hi,

More and more I have noticed the use of a double colon [::]in coding
explanations but have not noticed it actually used anywhere.  Does it
mean anything other than being used as a format.  

For example, in a recent repo description:

perl-DateTime-Format-Natural
Description :
DateTime::Format::Natural takes a string with a human readable
date/time and creates a machine readable one by applying natural
parsing logic.

rsync uses the :: in its a man pages.  There it seems to indicate a
remote machine, but doesn't seem to be required.

Just something I have been meaning to ask for a long time.

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Re: Firefox / Compiz problem to mull over with someone.

[William Case]

Hi Joe;

On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 11:51 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 04/29/2011 11:19 AM, William Case wrote:
> > I am asking if anyone has any suggestions on how to make compiz retain
> > the proper placement or how to change the focus on the workspace
> > switcher applet to workspace #2 at startup?
> 
> Use Devilspie.  I've experimented with it in the past and, although it 
> takes a bit of work to configure, it lets you open programs on any 
> desktop and have them come up on the desktop (and in the position) you want.

I used Devilspie a few Fedora versions ago.  The problem was the same.
It seems it is the result of the confluence of three or four programs.

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Firefox / Compiz problem to mull over with someone.

[William Case]

Hi;

My problem is not a big one or a rush.  It is just gotten under my skin
and would like help with a fix or a hack or something.

Problem:

I can't get Compiz at startup to place Firefox on viewport (workspace)
#2 at startup or login.

Information:
Using Firefox 3.6.16 and Compiz 0.8.6
I have four horizontal workspaces on my bottom panel.  One of the
workspaces (#2) I want to dedicate to Firefox.
My Start Applications program has a bash script that is supposed to
delay the start of Firefox, i.e. "sleep 15; firefox & exit".  It is one
of my attempts at a workaround.
Through the CCSM Place Windows plugin I have set up the following
Viewport positioned windows: (title=Firefox$ | class=Firefox-bin
X Viewport Postions: 2
Y Viewport Postions: 1

What happens:
At startup, either login or restart, Firefox opens in viewport #2 very
briefly then moves itself to viewport #1. If at startup, because of my
delay script, I can get the focus onto viewport #2 with my mouse, then
Firefox will open on #2 and stay there.

During a session, after start up is completed, I can close Firefox,
focus on any viewport and when I re-launch Firefox it will automatically
open in viewport #2 as it should.

What I think is happening is that at startup, the workspace switcher
applet is stealing the focus from Firefox and placing the focus where
the workspace switcher wants the focus, namely workspace #1.

I am asking if anyone has any suggestions on how to make compiz retain
the proper placement or how to change the focus on the workspace
switcher applet to workspace #2 at startup?

What I have tried:
I have googled.  Other people with earlier versions of Ubuntu have filed
bugs on the same issue.  No replies.
Asked on the Compiz user manual, site, mailsite and chat.  I was told to
wait for Compiz version 0.9 with no guarantee there was a fix coming.  I
think it requires the synchronization of too many small programs,
applets and scripts to get a real answer.

In any case, by now this has become more of an intriguing problem for me
to solve than just a hassle or a frustration.  Does anyone want to take
time to consider and offer some possible solutions or workarounds?


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Facebook on Fedora -- a couple of questions/suggestions.

[William Case]

Hi;

There has been a lot of action on the Facebook pages I belong to over
the last couple of days about trojans and/or viruses.  They all seem to
be link related.  I am pretty sure they cannot affect anything on
Fedora, but I was wondering.  They all seem M$ related.

Facebook seems to be unaware of the concept of workspaces.  If I am
using a workspace that doesn't have my browser I get no notification of
a posting or message or friendship request.  The chat requests makes a
sound.  Any suggestions on how I might set up a notification monitor
that shows in my system tray, or beeps or something like my email
monitor.  Looked in FB apps -- nothing.


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TVTime in F14

[William Case]

Hi, 

Fix for TVTime not fixed in F14.

I sent the following post the Fedora Users list last September after the
F13 install.

> I have a Hauppauge WinTv-HVR 1800 tuner with an analog Cable TV (NTSC
-
> Canada).  In F12 I received a near perfect video picture from my cable
> TV.  In F13, the picture is black and white with various degrees of
> interference lines depending on the tv channel.
> 
> I have played with (used) TVTime quite a bit in the last 3 or 4 years so
> I am familiar with all the menu settings and the configuration file.  No
> matter what I try, I can't get the proper reception back.
> 
> I still have no analog sound for this tuner, but I see that as a
> separate Alsa problem.

Followed by:

"My video has returned in full glorious colour after my latest upgrade
this morning.  I spent a few hours trying to chase this problem down.  I
am curious, does anybody know (off the top of your head) what might have
fixed the video?  My downloads were:

Installed: opencc-0.1.1-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: libfprint-0.2.0-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: fprintd-0.2.0-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: fprintd-pam-0.2.0-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: empathy-2.30.3-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: xorg-x11-xinit-1.0.9-18.fc13.x86_64
Installed: kernel-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.x86_64
Updated: ibus-pinyin-db-android-1.3.10-1.fc13.noarch
Updated: 1:control-center-filesystem-2.30.1-3.fc13.x86_64
Updated: 1:control-center-2.30.1-3.fc13.x86_64
Updated: 1:control-center-extra-2.30.1-3.fc13.x86_64
Updated: ibus-pinyin-1.3.10-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: kernel-headers-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.x86_64
Installed: kernel-devel-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.x86_64
Updated: perf-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.noarch "

Except in F14, my video has NOT returned in full glorious colour.  Any
suggestions welcome.

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Anti-Evolution rant.

[William Case]

On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 14:36 -0400, Genes MailLists wrote:
> On 03/20/2011 02:19 PM, William Case wrote:
> 
> > Now I am on a search for a replacement for Evolution that lets me have
> > some control over calendar print out forms. Can anybody help?
> 
> 
>  May or may not be what you want - have you tried google calendar ?

Yes.  Gave google calendar a through look to day.  It is not what I
need.

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Re: Anti-Evolution rant.

[William Case]

Hi;

On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 14:19 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> Just getting some stuff about the Evolution program off my chest.  If I
> can get some suggestions along the way that would be a bonus.
I have received some suggestions to try Thunderbird off list.  I tried
Thunderbird several years ago.  It didn't do what I wanted then but I am
going to give it another try.

I realize this is about old stuff -- printed paper forms -- and
therefore I am unlikely to find what I want.  That is why I stuck with M
$ Outlook so long after dumping everything else Windows. 

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Re: Anti-Evolution rant.

[William Case]

JB;

On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 18:44 +, JB wrote:
> William Case  rogers.com> writes:
> 
> > ... 
> > Now I am on a search for a replacement for Evolution that lets me have
> > some control over calendar print out forms. Can anybody help?
> 
> Why not start with:
> $ yum search calendar
> $ yum info 
> 
I did start with a yum search.  That's what produced the rant.

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Re: Anti-Evolution rant.

[William Case]

Thanks;
On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 11:58 -0700, suvayu ali wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 11:19 AM, William Case  wrote:
> > Now I am on a search for a replacement for Evolution that lets me have
> > some control over calendar print out forms. Can anybody help?
> 
> I have an unorthodox suggestion, if you are an emacs user you should try
> org-mode[1]. It can be a PIM, a publishing system, a personal note
> taker, a literate programming platform and much more. There are several
> screencasts demonstrating its capabilities[2], you can see them and
> decide if it is worth the effort for you.
> 
 I had looked at org-mode during its development phase.  I'll look again
to see what kind of final print format I can create.

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Anti-Evolution rant.

[William Case]

Hi;
Just getting some stuff about the Evolution program off my chest.  If I
can get some suggestions along the way that would be a bonus.

The only use I had for WindowsXP was using Outlook to print out my
calendar.  My Windows harddisk died a month ago.  It was due;it was old.
But now I have to completely rely on Evolution.

Evolution would do me just fine if I could get my calendar printed the
way I am used to and the way I want.  I no longer have any PIM devices
and do I want them.  I find devices just interfere with a face-to-face
conversation.  I want a piece of paper on which I can write quick notes
to myself without losing eye contact.  Old fashioned -- may be -- but it
is what works for me.  Windows Outlook used to give me my piece of paper
tasks, appointments and all, that I could fold up and carry in my hip or
shirt pocket.

Three years ago I filled a Request for Enhancement through Gnome
Bugzilla. 

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=470934

I seemed to have received some interest at the time so I filed a full
description with diagrams for that bug report.  Nothing.

I have even offered to learn enough about Evolution programming to
create it myself.  I asked for some advice on how I should get started.
(They seemed to be making programming changes at the time).  I thought
needed some simple advice just to get started particularly for creating
print forms.  Should it be a plugin?  Can I do what I want as a Plugin?
Got nothing.  

Now I am on a search for a replacement for Evolution that lets me have
some control over calendar print out forms. Can anybody help?
-- 
Regards Bill
Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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TvTime -- I have forgotten the fix.

[William Case]

Hi;

TvTime is showing nothing but interference lines.  I had the problem
before, and was given a simple fix.  I can't find the fix now and have
forgotten.  

Running TVtime with Rogers cable in Canada. Still analog, NTSC.  Using a
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR 1800 tuner.


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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: [Bulk] Re: gnote -- Am I the only one ?

[William Case]

On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 09:03 -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> >
> > gnote does not copy and paste within gnote the same way as every other
> > Linux program.  I use gnote a lot.  I can't select a phrase or whatever
> > move the cursor to the spot were I want to paste a copy of the phrase
> > and click the middle mouse button to paste in a copy of the selected
> > phrase.  gnote won't do it.  I have been using Fedora and Linux for over
> > 7 years; it is now an intuitive or ingrained habit; a signature of
> > Linux.
> >
> > I can and do use the Linux mouse copy and paste for copying items and
> > phrases from outside gnote into gnote.  Why will it not work with text
> > within gnote?
> >
> > I filed a bug, got told that the way to do it in gnote was to click
> > where I wanted a phrase pasted, move to the phrase I wanted to copy,
> > select the phrase and then click the mouse middle button.  It is not the
> > way traditional Linux mouse copy and paste works.  Half the time it
> > doesn't work.  I have had a couple of gnote crashes.
> >
> > The response I got from the gnote maintainer was can't replicate, bug
> > complaint removed.  I have nothing special, or old, in my Fedora 14
> > setup or in my hardware.  In any case, the position, then select, then
> > middle button is not the Linux standard.
> >
> > Am I the only one with this annoyance? I write a lot of stuff in a day
> > -- gnote is a great aid and tool except for this.  I wish somebody would
> > fix it.
> >
> I think there is something funny there, but you need to find a way to show 
> the 
> problem every time, then refile a bug. If the maintainer can't see it s/he 
> can't 
> fix it.
> 

I went back and re-tried using the Linux copy & paste.  I found the
following.  On my bigger writing programs like Write and Evolution
--compose the select and paste works the way I am used to.  On text
writing programs like gedit and gnote it doesn't.  I am using compiz
rather than metacity.  My guess now is that programs for writing that
have their own keyboard and mouse setup work as expected, but compiz is
somehow messing up the standard gnome mouse shortcuts.  I don't see
where but I will keep looking.

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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gnote -- Am I the only one ?

[William Case]

Hi;

gnote does not copy and paste within gnote the same way as every other
Linux program.  I use gnote a lot.  I can't select a phrase or whatever
move the cursor to the spot were I want to paste a copy of the phrase
and click the middle mouse button to paste in a copy of the selected
phrase.  gnote won't do it.  I have been using Fedora and Linux for over
7 years; it is now an intuitive or ingrained habit; a signature of
Linux.

I can and do use the Linux mouse copy and paste for copying items and
phrases from outside gnote into gnote.  Why will it not work with text
within gnote?

I filed a bug, got told that the way to do it in gnote was to click
where I wanted a phrase pasted, move to the phrase I wanted to copy,
select the phrase and then click the mouse middle button.  It is not the
way traditional Linux mouse copy and paste works.  Half the time it
doesn't work.  I have had a couple of gnote crashes.

The response I got from the gnote maintainer was can't replicate, bug
complaint removed.  I have nothing special, or old, in my Fedora 14
setup or in my hardware.  In any case, the position, then select, then
middle button is not the Linux standard.

Am I the only one with this annoyance? I write a lot of stuff in a day
-- gnote is a great aid and tool except for this.  I wish somebody would
fix it.


-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: Some Fedora 14 nitpicks

[William Case]

Hi Marko,
On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 15:57 +, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 January 2011 18:13:58 William Case wrote:
> > Compiz
> > 1) make it one package
> 
> yum list compiz*
> [snip]
I have much the same list as you do, but for gnome.  I used packagekit
and had to pick each component.  At least I thought I had to.  That was
what worked for me in Fedora 12 & 13.

> What exactly do you propose to merge here?
> 
> > 2) fix compiz so that 'place' works with Firefox.
> > 3) mesa-dri-drivers should be more explicit about what driver to use for
> > what. I wasted over an hour before discovering I needed
> > mesa-dri-drivers-experimental to run compiz.
> 
> yum list mesa-dri-*
> [snip]
> Installed Packages
> mesa-dri-drivers.i686 
>
> mesa-dri-drivers.x86_64   
>
> Available Packages
> mesa-dri-drivers-experimental.i686
>
> mesa-dri-drivers-experimental.x86_64  
>
> 

I needed mesa-dri-drivers-experimental.x86_64 to run and didn't download
mesa-dri-drivers.i686.  Again, using packagekit.

Thanks, I will use yum next time.


> I don't know what are all the differences in the two approaches. But for 
> example, IIRC, configuring compiz is done from the gnome preferences when 
> compiz iz run integrated, while it is done from ccsm when not integrated. And 
> such differences. The best way to try it out and see what is actually 
> different.
> Create a new user with default gnome system, no desktop effects or anything. 
> Then yum install fusion-icon and start it from the menu. Compiz will 
> automatically get loaded, and you'll get the fusion-icon in the system tray, 
> from where you can access ccsm, set up emerald or some other decorator, tweak 
> some options, and so on. Then compare and contrast that environment to the 
> usual one where you start compiz from the Gnome "desktop effects" button (or 
> whatever it is in the preferences).
> 

I have a 'guest' user that I reserve for just such experiments and will
give your suggestion a try.

> 
> > Sessions manager.
> > 1) It has taken me well over an hour to chase down what some of the more
> > obscure programs and names are starting.
> > 2) I found a site that gave me a description and suggestions of which
> > services I should automatically start on boot or login.  Everybody's
> > need is different, but release notes or some Fedora Documentation should
> > outline the use of session manager and services.
> 
> As far as boot services go, you can use system-config-services. It has a 
> reasonable GUI, where you can click on every service and read its description 
> and purpose in the appropriate part of the window. Then decide whether you 
> need it or not, and start/stop/enable/disable.
> 
> As for the session services that start after you login into Gnome, that's a 
> completely different question. :-)

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  I did find a list of descriptions of services
that suggested what I might need.  I have turned things off accordingly
using system-config-services gui.

My nitpick was I wanted to be able to create a sparser program or
applications startup.  It seemed that the default had about 30
applications starting at login and I was sure I didn't need them all.
The tool tip in Gnome that went with each program in the start up menu
wasn't all that helpful.  The obvious programs that you would want had
obvious descriptions.  The less obvious were less well defined.  For
example, name "PolicyKit Authentication Agent" description is "PolicyKit
Authentication Agent".  What does that do? Do I need it at startup?  I
turned it off to see.  Yes I need it -- can't get to root for many
applications without it.  Or, What does AT SPI D-Bus Bus do?  What does
the File Context maintainer do? and so an so on.  

I can and have chased down each one of these items but it is a PIA
without either better tool tip descriptions or a reliable list with
explanations.  Even a readme somewhere would be helpful.

While I am at it, I have had to write a couple of 'sleep' scripts to
delay the start up of some programs.  The startup menu used to have a
'nice' option.  I would prefer a 'move up' or 'move down' button on the
startup menu so I could set (some) priorities.  Perhaps by getting the
compiz to run at startup and using gcon

Re: Some Fedora 14 nitpicks

[William Case]

Hi;

On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 14:12 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> On 01/12/2011 01:27 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:13:58 -0500
> > William Case wrote:
> >
> >> 2) I found a site that gave me a description and suggestions of which
> >> services I should automatically start on boot or login.  Everybody's
> >> need is different, but release notes or some Fedora Documentation should
> >> outline the use of session manager and services.
> > I always run this on a new version of fedora:
> >
> > chkconfig --list | fgrep ':on'
> 
> I do
> 
> chkconfig --list > chkconfig.lst
> 
> So I have a permanent list that is easy to browse of what services were 
> there at install and what their initial status is/ws.  Then I change 
> from that.
> 
> I am always turning off bluetooth and avahi-daemon.  Sometimes sshd.
> 
> > That tells me the names of all the services turned on
> > by default. Any that I don't recognize from previous
> > experience, I run:
> >
> > rpm -q -i -f /etc/init.d/
> >
> > Which gives me the description of the rpm that included
> > it (of course the trick with using the init file to find
> > the rpm will probably break if they switch to systemd
> > for real).
> 

A very good idea.  I will keep this suggestion in my personal install
notes for the next time I do a virgin install.  

That deals with various services but doesn't help with the 30 or so
programs that are started in gnome-session-properties (the startup
session manager).  I am sure that about half of them are of no use to
me.  I have turned about half of them off.  I will now have to wait to
see which ones I need from startup.  None of the 'man' notes suggest
that this or that program should be running from the start.

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: Some Fedora 14 nitpicks

[William Case]

Hi;

On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 02:43 +0800, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13 AM, William Case 
> wrote:
> 
> Gnote.
> 1) make the Linux cut and paste, by select and middle mouse
> button
> click, work within gnotes.
> 2) give gnotes a command that can be attached to a shortcut
> key that
> allows me to select a short phrase from text, within gnotes or
> outside,
> that makes that phrase the new title.
> 
> 
> It is called Gnote.  Not gnotes and you can file these in bugzilla,
> preferably in GNOME upstream but Red Hat Bugzilla would do too as long
> as I copy/paste the necessary information to upstream.  
> 
> 
> Rahul  (Gnote maintainer in Fedora) 

Sorry about 'gnotes'. You will notice that I titled this section Gnote.
But the points were written at various different times in Gnote and I
have the bad habit of thinking of my stuff in Gnote in the pural.

I have filed these questions/points with gnome a couple of times over
the last two years.  I have received responses from other users that
they would like to see these small changes as well.  But no response,
comment or anything else from Gnome or people maintaining their Gnote
mailing list.  Therefore, I will do as you suggest and file a Fedora
bug/RFE.  Maybe you carry more wait than an ordinary user.


-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Some Fedora 14 nitpicks

[William Case]

Hi;

Only bother reading this if you have some extra time.  I am quite
satisfied with Fedora 14, but with each new version I keep a list of
small annoyances.  I am posting to see if there is agreement with me or
not, or further suggestions.  I will add some of them to bugzilla as
medium or low priority if it is appropriate in a week or so.

Compiz 
1) make it one package
2) fix compiz so that 'place' works with Firefox.
3) mesa-dri-drivers should be more explicit about what driver to use for
what. I wasted over an hour before discovering I needed
mesa-dri-drivers-experimental to run compiz.

Emerald
1) give me a menu dialogue so with one check mark I can install 'emerald
--replace' wherever it is needed - like the 'Desktop Effects' menu icon
in Preferences.

Sessions manager.
1) It has taken me well over an hour to chase down what some of the more
obscure programs and names are starting.
2) I found a site that gave me a description and suggestions of which
services I should automatically start on boot or login.  Everybody's
need is different, but release notes or some Fedora Documentation should
outline the use of session manager and services.

Gnome Menu and other launcher icons.
1) Make it simple to see what the command for the command line would be
to start the program.  Right now I have to drag the menu icon onto the
desktop and then look at properties, or open alacarte to see the command
in an items properties.
2) Sort out with Gnome what is a system tool and what is an
administration program.  I would think that programs that require 'root'
privileges, at least initially, should all be on the Administration
menu.  It will take a grand sort out of what is really what.

Gnote.
1) make the Linux cut and paste, by select and middle mouse button
click, work within gnotes.
2) give gnotes a command that can be attached to a shortcut key that
allows me to select a short phrase from text, within gnotes or outside,
that makes that phrase the new title.

LiveCD.
1) Start with three desktop icons. 'Computer', 'Install' and 'Rescue'.
The 'Rescue' icon need only be a menu that downloads and launches things
like Gparted, Firstaidkit, fwfstabs and access to your harddrives and
broken Linux system(s).  I know you can do it easily now if you are
experienced but there is an unnecessary learning curve; some of the
names for drives and mount points are obscure.  When you use tools like
gedit you are never sure where you are or which fstab or bootloader you
are editing.  None of this seems to be a big item, but if you are a
relatively new user, in the throws of frustration and near panic
(afterall, you are trying to rescue your system) it all adds to
unnecessary confusion and FUD.

Anaconda.
1) I would like to be able to run Anaconda from the LiveCD in a 'safe'
mode.  No formatting, no application downloads, just be able to fix and
change labels, flags, and apparent partition order.  I know this can be
done with fdisk and/or parted, but Ananconda gives a nice visual and it
is familiar.  It is what was used on the original install.

Epiphany:
1) I like to close Epiphany when not in use, but keep the BookMark
icon/launcher on my panel -- that was the original idea behind it.  I
use Firefox for general browsing and Epiphany for reading HTML files and
quick look ups at a few select sites when I am working.  I can't seem to
be able to turn off the 'recovery' warning/option when I start up
Epiphany after closing it but retain the bookmark on my panel.  It kind
of defeats the purpose of quickly browsing possible URLs independent of
opening Epiphany first.  

Evolution
1) doesn't mark the first message as read -- need to use Ctrl-k
2) F6 doesn't quite cut it as a jump from panel to panel.  I would like
a short cut key that just toggles between my account & folders list,
and, message list and places the cursor or highlight on the first
message.  The spacebar does the rest for me.
3) I would like to be able to add more than one ISP account to the
notifyer.  I would like more accurate new mail counts.
4) Want to change the print options for calendar.  I have asked several
times and gotten general agreement.  I have even offered to make changes
as a plugin -- just want a pointer or two on how to get started without
learning the entire Evolution program.   The only reason I double boot
is to use the Outlook calendar.

Gnome Panel:
1) On almost every login one or two items on my panels is blacked out.
The programs still work, it is the launcher icon that doesn't get
loaded.  I don't know if this is a result of using compiz or the mesa
experimental driver or something else entirely.

gdm:
1)  The login dialogues bounce around in an unnatural amateurish looking
way.  They change sizes crudely at least 3 times for each boot up.

TVtime:
1) Apparently the no one has written a sound module for Alsa for
analogue sound over cable for my Haupauge WinTV-HVR 1800.  Will check
one more time.



-- 
Regards Bill
Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Ema

Re: [FOLLOW UP] -- TVTime starts with blue screen; then shifts to green screen.

[William Case]

On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 22:49 -0500, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> I have been using TVTime through six or seven versions of Fedora.  it
> was working until recently.  I don't exactly when it quit. Some time in
> the last two weeks. I have been doing a lot of messing with my computer
> in that time.  Before dumping a whole pile of data on here;
> 
> TVTime starts with blue screen; then shifts to green screen after a few
> seconds delay.
> 
> Is anyone familiar with this problem?
> 
> I am using cable TV in Canada, so NTSC. 
> 
TVTime worked before.  I have restored my configuration files from
Fedora 13 because I am sure that it was working with F13.

Is there a gstreamer or other library I should be double checking that I
have installed?

I remember screwing around with modprobe several versions ago, but I
don't think that is applicable in Fedora 13 or Fedora 14.  I can't see
anything in modprobe.d that looks useful.

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Firefox and the CCSM 'place' command for Compiz.

[William Case]

Hi; 

I have read that the CCSM 'place' command for Compiz will not be fixed
until Compiz 0.9.0.  I am using Compiz 0.8.6.  But I am hoping someone
has discovered a workaround for the time being.

My problem is with Firefox only. I want to place Firefox in workspace 2
(viewport 2) on start up.  Firefox will start in workspace 2 for only a
fraction of a second then jumps to workspace 1.  I have tried a sleep
script set to 15 seconds; and/or using class=firefox-bin as suggested.
Neither really works.

Any other suggestions.
 
-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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[FIXED -- kind of] Grub_IMAGE 'bad grub stage1 image' -- what is this telling me.

[William Case]

On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 17:30 -0500, William Case wrote: 
> Hi;
> 
> On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 16:29 -0500, William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> > 
> > I ran firstaidkit as root and got the following warning:
> > 
> > Grub_IMAGE  Detected 'bad grub stage1 image'.  Fix doesn't fix.
> > 
> > Googled and got either way out of date messages or lots of Grub2 stuff.
> > I posted a question here a couple of days ago with lots of info.  Will
> > repost if it is helpful.
> > 
> > What is this firstaidkit warning telling me?
> 
> grub> find /grub/stage1
> is now returning:  (hd0,0) and (hd2,0)
> 
> I don't have a (hd2,0)  but that is where grub thinks the grub.conf file
> is and it works !!

BIOS changed the disk boot order automatically on me when I
disconnected /dev/sda temporarily.  The change did not show on the BIOS
boot order menu.  I had to dig three levels down in Advanced Features of
my BIOS to find the change.

Grub still doesn't recognize the chainload command.

It may well be my old Maxtor with my WindowsXP system (/dev/sda) has
died. I would just get a new harddisk except I don't want to go through
the exercise of reinstalling WindowsXP and updating everything. My
problem now is that the data and files on XP are all visible when I
mount the disk. I have no trouble mounting and browsing around
in /dev/sda. I am going to do the following as a last ditch effort:
1) Physically disconnect /dev/sdb and see if I can get WindowsXP to boot
on its own. If I can't I can be pretty sure I have an old dead disk
problem.
2) Try to rescue everything on /dev/sda with dd or a backup program and
reinstall Windows. Yes, I backed up but I am so seldom in WindowsXP that
the backup is way out of date.

If you have any other suggestions, I would be glad to hear them and try
them. This Windows disk is not critical and can wait repairing or
replacing. I hardly ever boot into WindowsXP anymore.

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1


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TVTime starts with blue screen; then shifts to green screen.

[William Case]

Hi;

I have been using TVTime through six or seven versions of Fedora.  it
was working until recently.  I don't exactly when it quit. Some time in
the last two weeks. I have been doing a lot of messing with my computer
in that time.  Before dumping a whole pile of data on here;

TVTime starts with blue screen; then shifts to green screen after a few
seconds delay.

Is anyone familiar with this problem?

I am using cable TV in Canada, so NTSC. 




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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: Grub_IMAGE 'bad grub stage1 image' -- what is this telling me.

[William Case]

Hi;

On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 16:29 -0500, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> I ran firstaidkit as root and got the following warning:
> 
> Grub_IMAGE  Detected 'bad grub stage1 image'.  Fix doesn't fix.
> 
> Googled and got either way out of date messages or lots of Grub2 stuff.
> I posted a question here a couple of days ago with lots of info.  Will
> repost if it is helpful.
> 
> What is this firstaidkit warning telling me?

grub> find /grub/stage1
is now returning:  (hd0,0) and (hd2,0)

I don't have a (hd2,0)  but that is where grub thinks the grub.conf file
is and it works !!

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Grub_IMAGE 'bad grub stage1 image' -- what is this telling me.

[William Case]

Hi;

I ran firstaidkit as root and got the following warning:

Grub_IMAGE  Detected 'bad grub stage1 image'.  Fix doesn't fix.

Googled and got either way out of date messages or lots of Grub2 stuff.
I posted a question here a couple of days ago with lots of info.  Will
repost if it is helpful.

What is this firstaidkit warning telling me?

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Problems with grub/fedora/windowsxp

[William Case]

Hi;

I don't seem to be able to chainload to WindowsXP anymore.

My grub.conf in /boot/grub/ includes:
...
title WindowsXP SP3
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
makeactive

]# fdisk -l
Disk /dev/sda: 41.0 GB, 40981069312 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 4982 cylinders, total 80041151 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xa6a9a6a9

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *  636364952931824733+   c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda26364953080035829 8193150f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda56364959380035829 8193118+  83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500106780160 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976771055 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00066c56

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb12048 1026047  512000   83  Linux
/dev/sdb22150604825602047 2048000   82  Linux swap /
Solaris
/dev/sdb3 1026048215060471024   83  Linux
/dev/sdb425602048   976769023   4755834885  Extended
/dev/sdb525604096   935809023   455102464   83  Linux
/dev/sdb6   935811072   97676902320478976b  W95 FAT32

Partition table entries are not in disk order


First question:  Just to double check. Is the chainloader for WindowsXP
written correctly?  I have been know to repeatedly over look a
stupidity.

Second Question: What does "Partition table entries are not in disk
order" mean?  I googled and got articles on the new 4096 disk sector
format.  Never had a problem with that before.


Second question:
grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 
find /boot/grub/stage1
Error 15: File not found

but,

grub> find /grub/stage1
find /grub/stage1
(hd1,0)
(hd2,0)

Yet, the /boot partition exists, and contains my /grub/grub.conf file.
Any changes I make in this file show up in the grub menu at boot up.
Has grub been changed to ignore the /boot?

Why is find telling me I have two disks with stage1.  I have only one
(hd1,0),  Could it by finding a stage1 file on my (hd0,4) - my linux
backup partition?  How?  It hasn't been added to fstab yet. 

Then,

grub> root (hd1,0)
root (hd1,0)
Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
grub> setup (hd0)
setup (hd0)
Checking if "/boot/grub/stage1" exists... no
Checking if "/grub/stage1" exists... yes
Checking if "/grub/stage2" exists... yes
Checking if "/grub/e2fs_stage1_5" exists... yes
Running "embed /grub/e2fs_stage1_5 (hd0)"...  26 sectors are embedded.
succeeded
Running "install /grub/stage1 d (hd0) (hd0)1+26 p
(hd1,0)/grub/stage2 /grub/grub.conf"... succeeded
Done.

However, as a double check I ran grub-install

# grub-install hd1
Installation finished. No error reported.
This is the contents of the device map /boot/grub/device.map.
Check if this is correct or not. If any of the lines is incorrect,
fix it and re-run the script `grub-install'.

# this device map was generated by anaconda
(hd0) /dev/sda
(hd1) /dev/sdb


Now here is where it gets really confusing:

When grub.conf in /boot/grub/ includes:
title Fedora (2.6.35.10-74.fc14.x86_64)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.35.10-74.fc14.x86_64 ro root=UUID=20... etc.

Fedora won't boot.

But when I change it to the following (hd2,0):
title Fedora (2.6.35.10-74.fc14.x86_64)
root (hd2,0)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.35.10-74.fc14.x86_64 ro root=UUID=20
Fedora boots.

Finally, as a test to see if WindowsXP will boot on its own, without the
use of grub, using my WindowsXP Recovery Console, tried to restore the
MBR.  WindowsXP would no longer boot.

Two outstanding other pieces of information.  I thought sda (hd0) was
failing and removed the cables to save it.  Reattaching the cables
seemed to fix everything.  I can mount sda.  No more spin up problems
are being recorded by 'Smart'.

I re-installed Fedora 14 but his should not have mucked up the windows
(sda) installation order as can some times happen.

That's it.

Any suggestions on what I should try next?

-- 
Regards Bill
Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1






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PEBCAK and frustrated stupidity still exists -- be warned!

[William Case]

This note is just to get some frustration off my chest and to remind the
Fedora community that stupidity can reign no matter how smart you might
think you are.

Just did a virgin Fedora 14 reinstall after completely screwing up my
operating system because I thought I had a failing disk drive.  The one
that has all my backups.  Compounding my problems by losing grub and my
WindowsXP partition.

After spending more than a day working on it, and a couple of calls to
my vendor, my solutions got more and more inventive until I managed to
just about blow the whole machine up.

Only then, in my frustration, did I think to take the side panel off my
computer, jiggle the cables to the harddrive, remove the cable and
reattach it.  Fixed everything.  Now I am busy trying to get everything
back to the way I like.

No reply necessary.  Just thought someone else might be in the throws of
some frustrated, non-thinking stupidity and might need a warning to
stop, take a breath, indulge in the sin of your choice and think before
doing any more damage.  Particularly, try to keep screwdrivers out of
your hands at times like these.

I know you might say, I have been there, done that.  Even bought the
T-shirt.  But PEBAK continues exist in the best of families.


-- 
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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: About programing, a general question

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 08:11 -0700, James Mckenzie wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:
> >
> >I'd also like to add that this entire thread seems to me to be
> >off-topic. There are plenty of forums for discussing programming and
> >programming languages, but this is list is for discussion of Fedora and
> >as far as I can see not a single message in the thread has any direct
> >relevance to Fedora, or to Linux, or to operating systems in general.
> >
> However, this has been an interesting thread on what is the 'Best Programming 
> Language To Learn With'.  Fortunately, Fedora and any other Linux distro, 
> with few exceptions, provides a robust location to learn any of the languages 
> discussed, even C++ and Java.
> 
> I agree, this thread has run its course and it is time for the OP to go out, 
> buy a few books or Google around the 'net and start programming.
> 
> Good luck.

I would just like to add an observation.  I have been a member of this
Fedora Users site for 5 years.  I have noticed that at some point after
the release of a new version of Fedora a long OT thread develops.
Usually after 6 weeks to 2 months after the release.  It kind of signals
that there are no major problems remaining with the release and that
instead of Bugs and Support, a little community building is going on.  I
look forward to such a long OT thread after each release.

Often the threads are started by Trolls and everybody jumps in even if
they know better.  In this case, the OP's question although somewhat OT
prompted positive and interesting feed back that let some of us get a
better feel for who people behind posts are, who heretofore were just
recognizable names.

As I say, I always look forward to the 'every thing is ok with this
release' thread.

-- 
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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: About programing, a general question

[William Case]

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 10:52 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> On 12/21/2010 03:48 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Jerry Feldman  > > wrote:
> >
> Yes and no. It is related to an understanding of what a computer really
> does. While CPUs today are very complex, such as out-of-order execution,
> the basic underlying premise is the same. If you understand binary
> arithmetic and logical arithmetic, then you have an understanding of
> what a CPU really does. You certainly don't need to understand what an
> or gate or and gate is, but you need to understand what happens when you
> add 2 positive integers and get a negative result, 

Not an argument with what you say.  I think most of it is sound advice,
but I would like to, make one comment.

I found that when teaching myself 'C', 10 or 20 minutes contemplating an
'and' or an 'or' gate gave me enough of an 'aha!' that I could
understand what was going on.  Of course, that was proceeded by another
twenty minutes or so understanding the basic switching capabilities of
transistors. Getting to understand basic computing cycles as governed by
a crystal clock put everything into proportion timewise. The same with a
template of a CPU showing things like the decoder, registers, and the
ALU.  I spent just enough time to get the idea of how data and
instructions flowed.  Knowing why there was a difference between DRAM
(capacitors) memory and SRAM (flip-flops) memory answered a lot of
questions of why things were done one way rather than the other.  

I didn't want to become an engineer, or build a computer from scratch in
my garage, but I did want to get passed the frustrating notion of
programming something the way I was told to just because 'I said so'.
There is always a reason why things are done the way they are.

-- 
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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: About programing, a general question

[William Case]

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 02:16 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:46 PM, William Case 
> wrote:

> 
> I found the answer in "The C Programming Language" by Brian W.
> Kernighan
> and Dennis M. Ritchie.  This book is such a basic that it is
> often
> referred to just as K&R.  If you try to simply use this book
> as a
> tutorial for the C language it is too difficult.  Almost every
> sentence
> contains a new concept.  But K&R and 'C' are closest to the
> metal.  It's
> description and particularly its appendices are used by
> programmers
> mainly as a reference.  It really is a text on how to best
> write code so
> that the compiler can use your 'C' code by translating it into
> machine
> language. It is also, therefore, basic instructions for
> compiler writers
> on how they have writer their compilers.
> 
> 
> Sure, how to get this book? Is it available online somewhere?

I don't think you can get it legitimately online -- I have the hard
cover text.  It maybe available online now. Google "The C Programming
Language" by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie.  It is sold
everywhere that sells computer books.  It is not expensive -- not like
other computer text books. 
> 

> 
> That technology is really amazing that whatever in your heart comes,
> you enter it through keyboard and in a string of '0's and '1's it is
> read by the processor which then takes the proper action, finally it
> comes into the wire from where your internet connection is coming
> (into the form of EM wave of proper frequency, amplitude & time) and
> then it is further processed! It's really amazing.
> 
The 'C' language does not deal directly with the Internet.  It is more
basic.  Much of the higher level code used for the internet is or was
originally written in 'C' in order to get the computer to accept and
transmit data, to build internet packets and to adhere to traffic
protocols.

Actually, computers don't use '1' and '0's.  The '1' and '0's are just
textual representations of High Voltage and Low Voltage which is what
the machine really uses.  It is a handy representation because binary
math (two digit athematic) gives the same results as the combining of
deferent sets of high voltages and low voltages.


> 
> If I happen to steer you wrong, I am sure
> there are lots of people on this list who will jump in with
> corrections.
> 

> 
> Yes, but I don't think so if it is wrong.


-- 
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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: About programing, a general question

[William Case]

On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 13:28 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:43 PM, William Case 
> wrote:
> 
> Parshwa, Two basic questions: 1) Do you want to use
> programming as a way
> to understand the inner workings of your computer? Or, 2) Do
> you want to
> acquire a programming language primarily to have the most
> used/useful
> programming skills in order to write a program? (at least
> useful to
> you).  Both these objectives may be intertwined, but which is
> your
> primary goal now?  Different goals, different programs.
> 
> --
> Regards Bill
> 
> 
> The primary interest for which the latest software technology has
> lured me much is to know about how I can efficiently write the code
> (despite of my job of other field) but simultaneously I would be
> pleased if the same piece of code and its generation becomes the
> reason of knowing how exactly the world of communications is  working!
> That much of the knowledge I am having that the entire world is
> working on '0' and '1' as everything is going to convert to it and
> then to electromagnetic signal (for communications) but the only thing
> to know at first is how to write the code. Secondary things (at later
> stage) would be that how that program is getting converted into a
> sting of '0' and '1' which only the computer understands and transmits
> through wire (as an EM wave). So at times, and it is the high time,
> that despite of the fact I get very less time, this technology has
> become a driving force for me that it makes me to think how a code is
> working?
> 
I am not a programmer, but I wanted the answer you seem to want.  How
does the damn thing work?  More explicitly: 

How does human understandable information get converted by a machine
into electrical data; then store it; may or may not, transform, compare,
and/or relocate the data; and then re-present the data as information
meaningful to humans?

I found the answer in "The C Programming Language" by Brian W. Kernighan
and Dennis M. Ritchie.  This book is such a basic that it is often
referred to just as K&R.  If you try to simply use this book as a
tutorial for the C language it is too difficult.  Almost every sentence
contains a new concept.  But K&R and 'C' are closest to the metal.  It's
description and particularly its appendices are used by programmers
mainly as a reference.  It really is a text on how to best write code so
that the compiler can use your 'C' code by translating it into machine
language. It is also, therefore, basic instructions for compiler writers
on how they have writer their compilers.

A big however!  I found that when I took my time, and worked each new
concept through, with liberal use of google and some tutorial sites,
with some contemplation on my part, with some reference to the the basic
electrical properties of transistors, capacitors, Direct Current and
crystals, I was able to come to a fairly complete (or at least useful)
understanding of how my computer worked and what the text instructions
that I was imputing were doing. 

In addition, I spent a couple of afternoons exploring assembly language
and the IS-32 instruction set.  Looking at how compilers work, and how
they translate your text code into machine code (the '1' and '0's you
mentioned) from libraries makes the need for precise instructions (text
syntax) clear and less of a burden.

I found that by using K&R as a course outline rather than a final all
knowing, all teaching, tutorial book I was able to drill to the bottom
of everything that was happening inside my computer.

If you, like me, look for those Eureka! moments in life, you will find
exploring the capabilities of your computer through the 'C' language is
a wonderful voyage of discovery.  The ingenuity and creativity over the
last 50 years that has gone into making the metal, the electricity, and
the programming of a computer is truly a marvel.

If this is the kind of approach that you are interested in respond to
this post, and I will give you some hints and tricks about uncovering
the programming process.  If I happen to steer you wrong, I am sure
there are lots of people on this list who will jump in with corrections.

-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: About programing, a general question

[William Case]

Hi;

I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest.

On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 22:32 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote:
> hi,
> 
> If one has to start from the scratch, from the zeroth level to do the
> programing, which programing language one should start with? In the
> ocean of the languages, to start with is really very typical. Can one
> justify it. Some say Python but again they say it is Perl which is
> better every time then the Python. Some say to start with C or C++ but
> again some emphasis to use Java or C#. Many say to go for .Net and VB
> or COBOL and some say to learn web based programing like HTML, PHP,
> ASP.Net. In this ocean who is just starting to learn which one he
> should prefer?
> 
> Many say that what is the purpose of learning, then I say that to have
> the basic understanding of how exactly we can handle the machines like
> the CPU. Not to generate the big projects for the management
> processes, not even banking system but to know the basic of programing
> like how to handle the machines at the first, for that purpose, for
> the the scratch level purpose and for the one which is good even for
> Linux, what programing language should one like me, initiate?
> 
> -- 
> 
Parshwa, Two basic questions: 1) Do you want to use programming as a way
to understand the inner workings of your computer? Or, 2) Do you want to
acquire a programming language primarily to have the most used/useful
programming skills in order to write a program? (at least useful to
you).  Both these objectives may be intertwined, but which is your
primary goal now?  Different goals, different programs.

-- 
Regards Bill
Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: Game suggestions from the over sixty crowd?!?

[William Case]

On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:22 -0500, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> I thought I would like to try a game.  The Fedora Repo list gives about
> 60 at least.  I am over sixty, not decrepit yet, but certainly don't
> want to continually loose to a reflexes based game.
> 
> What I think I would like (or some combination of some of the criteria
> listed)
> a strategy based game; empire or kingdom or city building; more based on
> natural economic or societal criteria; perhaps an enemy or two but
> enough time between attacks to create a city or whatever, a good test of
> strategic thinking as well as occasional tactical reactions.  I don't
> think I want an internet game, but I have never tried so that is kind of
> an open question.
> 
> Is there anyone out there of my age that has found a Linux or Fedora
> game that is engrossing and fits at least partially my enumerated wish
> list.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I have decided to try Quarry (Gnome Go)
because it is something I have played before in the distant past. And,
Spring because it fits my self-stated criteria and I like the eye-candy.
I will find out with Spring whether my criteria is what I really want.
So far it has been an intriguing came just try to figure out how to set
it up.

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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Game suggestions from the over sixty crowd?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

I thought I would like to try a game.  The Fedora Repo list gives about
60 at least.  I am over sixty, not decrepit yet, but certainly don't
want to continually loose to a reflexes based game.

What I think I would like (or some combination of some of the criteria
listed)
a strategy based game; empire or kingdom or city building; more based on
natural economic or societal criteria; perhaps an enemy or two but
enough time between attacks to create a city or whatever, a good test of
strategic thinking as well as occasional tactical reactions.  I don't
think I want an internet game, but I have never tried so that is kind of
an open question.

Is there anyone out there of my age that has found a Linux or Fedora
game that is engrossing and fits at least partially my enumerated wish
list.


-- 
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Fedora 14, Gnome 2.32
Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Is anybody using Xournal? -- I have questions, and want recommendations.

[William Case]

Hi;

I am about to download Xournal, but before I try it out maybe I can get
a few questions answered.

I am currently reading a 260 page PDF document.  I would like to be able
to make the equivalent of margin notes to myself.  I have and use gnotes
and NoteCase each for different purposes.

I would like to attach the margins notes at specific spots in the text
(or seem to).  The notes are for my own reference and are not
necessarily intended to be shared. I don't want to directly edit the
document.

If Xournal is not the answer, do you have any suggestions on how I might
go about making the equivalent of margin notes on a printed document.  I
imagine there would be a use for this in academic or policy making
circles.

Something for PDF documents would be good.  Something that I could use
on other types of documents as well would be better.
-- 
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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Only one minor problem with F14 so far => Evo 'unread' markings gone.

[William Case]

On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 10:20 +0100, Andrew Kelly wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-11-18 at 11:00 -0500, William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> > 
> > In Evolution, the bolding and unread mail count has disappeared from my
> > Account list and Search Folders.  Inbox shows correctly as does my
> > message list. I have shut down Evo and reopened, and re-booted, so it
> > isn't quite that simple. 

> I'd like to add a "me too" to this one, as well as the fact that Evo
> seems not to want
> to save state anymore.  Adjusting views or pane sizes does not survive,
> and default
> conditions exist at next start-up.

I have filled a bugzilla complaint.  Would you add your "me too" to it
please.  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=654739


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Re: Burning mixed ownership of files to disk producing a problem?

[William Case]

This reply is as a continuation of the discussion, not an argument with
your suggestions. In the end I just burned the user files and left it at
that.  See below for details ...

On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 05:14 +1030, Tim wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-11-18 at 11:32 -0500, William Stock wrote:
> > In a small test I had no problem burning some of "my" files and some
> > "root/root" files.  However, using the CD for a restore would be a
> > gigantic pain in the backside.  You'd be sitting in front of your
> > monitor forever.
> 
> Yes.  DVDs and CDs aren't great for lots of little files (really slow
> seek speed, slow read speed), but are reasonable for large files where
> the slow seek speed comes into the equation less often.  And, depending
> on how you put the files on the disc, you'd have to correct all the
> changed ownerships, file permissions, and SELinux contexts.  And you'd
> have to do it as root to be able to access all the files you want to
> backup, and the same when you restore them, later on.
> 
> My suggestion about tarring (or otherwise archiving the files), puts all
> that ownership, permissions, and file context information within the
> archive, where it can be restored as the files are extracted.
> 
> Though a gotcha with that, is people who backup their files, install a
> new system, create a new user by making the same username but not with
> the same numerical user ID, then try to restore their files.  Generally
> speaking, the name is for your benefit, the filesystems go by the ID.

What I had been doing was quite simple.  Rather than doing a compressed
backup, I had just been using a small rsync script to copy my files
and/or changes to my backup partition.  I have a big enough hard drive
with lots of room.  I found that I seldom had need of a restore, but on
several occasions it was helpful to just go to the /backup partition and
directly look at what I had used, or configured before.  Occasionally I
would have need to copy a data file back to my /home partition.

When I came to burning the new disk I wanted to be able to do the same.
It is very unlikely that on my small system, I would need to restore a
file or directory from two or three Fedora versions ago.  But I might
like to look at what I did with some file back then.  If it was a root
file I would switch to root and look at a burned file from there.  So I
wasn't trying to burn a backed up file per se but rather a copied file.
That shouldn't have been a problem I would have thought, unless having
used rsync with accumulated changes makes a difference.



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Only one minor problem with F14 so far => Evo 'unread' markings gone.

[William Case]

Hi;

In Evolution, the bolding and unread mail count has disappeared from my
Account list and Search Folders.  Inbox shows correctly as does my
message list. I have shut down Evo and reopened, and re-booted, so it
isn't quite that simple. 

Other than that the upgrade from F13 => F14 was pretty slick.  I really
like the new splash graphics.
-- 
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Burning mixed ownership of files to disk producing a problem?

[William Case]

I started out to do something I though should be fairly easy but I have
been at it all evening.

I am trying to burn some data files to DVD as a backup.  Here is the
problem as far as I can tell.  Brasero from root won't burn the files
directly but wants to turn them into an .iso.

Details:
I have a backup partition on which I keep my personal backups as well as
files and directories owned by root such as /etc.  I was getting ready
to upgrade to Fedora 14.  I decided that there was only some of my
backup files I wanted to further back up to a DVD disk. The total size
fits on one disk. Brasero will back up personal files but won't back up
root's files.  If I su or sudo brasero and try it from there, brasero
wants to create /root/brasero.iso.  Same happens with the CD/DVD
Creator.

The manual is silent on why root and user files won't mix or on how to
burn root files.  Plus several annoying things happen with unwanted
programs popping up when using brasero and inserting discs.

I have received the suggestion that I tar the files first.  I will do if
there are no other suggestions.  If this post seems like a repeat, it
is, but I corrected the Subject: in the hope of getting more reads.
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Evo.2.32, Emacs 23.2.1

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Burning mixed permission files to disk problem?

[William Case]

Hi;

I started out to do something I though should be fairly easy but I have
been at it all evening.

I am trying to burn some data files to DVD as a backup.  Here is the
problem as far as I can tell.  Brasero from root won't burn the files
directly but wants to turn them into an .iso.

Details:
I have a backup partition on which I keep my personal backups as well as
files and directories owned by root such as /etc.  I was getting ready
to upgrade to Fedora 14.  I decided that there was only some of my
backup files I wanted to further back up to a DVD disk. The total size
fits on one disk. Brasero will back up personal files but won't back up
root's files.  If I su or sudo brasero and try it from there, brasero
wants to create /root/brasero.iso.  Same happens with the other command
line burny-thingy-automatic program that goes with Nautilus. (I can
never remember it's name).

The manual is silent on why root and user files won't mix or on how to
burn root files.  Plus several annoying things happen with unwanted
programs popping up when using brasero and inserting discs.

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Evo.2.20.2, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: Fedora 14's new name?

[William Case]

On Sat, 2010-11-13 at 12:23 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:59:08 + (UTC)
> Andre Robatino wrote:
> 
> > I always use just "F13", "F14", etc. It would be too confusing to remember 
> > the
> > names especially after a few years.
> 
> Or a few seconds :-).

That is why I use the name, Tom.  I forget to.  When I see a name on my
backup drive, I can say to myself "Oh that must be the ISO.  I wonder
where I put the burned version?"

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Fedora 14's new name?

[William Case]

Hi;

Is Fedora using names anymore to distinguish versions?  F13 was Goddard.
I have looked on the Wiki and on the Project page and several links.  I
can't find the name anywhere.  What is particularly frustrating is that
I am sure I saw it two or three weeks ago.

It is not deal killer, but I have gotten in the habit of storing the ISO
for each version on my harddrive under a directory with the version name
to distinguish it from the working copy.  If using a name has been
dropped please let me know and I will use another designation.

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Re: While waiting for Fedora 14, a question for the engineering types re: searching and finding

[William Case]

Thank you Marko and Patrick:

On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 21:36 +0100, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Thursday, October 28, 2010 19:27:16 William Case wrote:
> > How does the cpu search and find stuff?
> > 
> > There is a huge amount of searching and finding of text in
> > memory, conditional statements requiring comparisons, and the use of
> > entry points but not exact addresses from within both kernel space and
> > user space.  It has occurred to me that a there is necessarily a lot of
> > physical or bit comparing going on.  Too much, I would think, to keep
> > dumping a search criteria into a cpu register and then replacing the
> > contents of a second register from a block of memory until one matches.
> 
> Believe it or not, in a nutshell that's exactly what is happening. When a 
> processor needs to "search" for something in memory, it typically does a 
> conditional loop --- load the number from memory into the register (the MOV 
> assembly instruction), compare it to the wanted value in the second register 
> (CMP), if they are the same break the loop (LOOPNE), otherwise load the next 
> number and repeat.
> 
> Why do you think there is "too much" of that comparison going on?
> 

I didn't think there was too much from my point of view.  I thought
there might be too much from an engineer's perspective.  As I have dug
into the inner workings of computers over the last few years, I have
become enthralled with the ingenuity, if not down right genius, of how
computers have been designed and improved over the years -- starting
with basic circuits and instruction sets.  I thought I might have missed
something -- missed an aha! moment.  In my mind. there was a good chance
that some engineer somewhere had seen the repetition involved in a
search and comparison and developed something quite cunning to shorten
the process.  As I said, I always look for the eureka's.

> > Is there a special unit within the cpu or memory were rapid comparison,
> > or partial comparisons are made during a search, before a criteria is
> > noted as found and moved into the cpu registers?  In a generalized way,
> > at the hardware level, how are searched for criteria found?
> 
> There is no special unit, AFAIK. You load the two numbers (to be compared) 
> into the processor registers, and do a CMP instruction. The processor 
> basically subtracts the two numbers, and modifies the flag register according 
> to 
> whether the result is positive, negative or zero. The next instruction (say, 
> LOOPNE) inspects the flag register and decides what will be the following 
> instruction, based on the contents of the flags. This "deciding" amounts to 
> changing the value of the IP (instruction pointer) register to one or the 
> other predefined value.
> 
> You might want to learn a bit of assembly language, if you wish to understand 
> basic low-level operations of the processor. And if you want to understand 
> the 
> concepts of how processors actually work and what is a computer program in 
> principle, you can start from here
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine

I have looked at a Turing Machine and assembly language.  Enough to have
a comfortable overview without developing a strong desire or need to dig
deeper.  Even spent a couple of afternoons with IA-32 just to take away
the mystery.
> 
> but don't curse me later for pointing you to that page. You asked for it! ;-)
>  
> > I have googled for an answer and found nothing helpful.  That usually
> > means I have somehow mis-posed the question, am working from wrong
> > assumptions or lack the correct terminology.  Help chasing the
> > 'searching' mechanism would be appreciated.
> 
> Searching "mechanism" is a software algorithm that I described above --- pick 
> a value from memory, compare it to the one you search for. If they are the 
> same, you found it. If not, pick the next value from memory and repeat.
> 
> There is nothing about searching (per se) that is implemented in hardware. 
> The 
> processor knows how to move numbers (to registers and memory), how to add 
> them, subtract, multiply, divide, compare and jump to the next instruction. 
> And that's about it. Everything else is built from that, through various 
> algorithms. 
> 
> Note that this instruction set I described above is not minimal --- for 
> example, you can perform multiplication by looping addition (3x2 = 2+2+2). 
> Depending how the processor is designed, it can have more or less of these 
> non-essential instructions implemented in hardware. You can read on CISC 
> versus RISC philosophy here:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC
> 
> But I've never hea

While waiting for Fedora 14, a question for the engineering types re: searching and finding

[William Case]

Hi;

How does the cpu search and find stuff?

I am asking at the lowest abstraction level and hardware level.  I have
read several operating system texts and have an overview understanding
of 'C'.  There is a huge amount of searching and finding of text in
memory, conditional statements requiring comparisons, and the use of
entry points but not exact addresses from within both kernel space and
user space.  It has occurred to me that a there is necessarily a lot of
physical or bit comparing going on.  Too much, I would think, to keep
dumping a search criteria into a cpu register and then replacing the
contents of a second register from a block of memory until one matches.
I understand the use of hash tables. I am asking at a level lower than
that.

Is there a special unit within the cpu or memory were rapid comparison,
or partial comparisons are made during a search, before a criteria is
noted as found and moved into the cpu registers?  In a generalized way,
at the hardware level, how are searched for criteria found?

I have googled for an answer and found nothing helpful.  That usually
means I have somehow mis-posed the question, am working from wrong
assumptions or lack the correct terminology.  Help chasing the
'searching' mechanism would be appreciated.
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Evo.2.20.2, Emacs 23.2.1

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Firefox and Adobe Reader 8.1.7

[William Case]

Hi g;

On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 20:44 +, g wrote:
> On 10/19/2010 08:13 PM, William Case wrote:
> 
> 
> hello w c.
> 
> > Tried that before posting. 
> > 
> > Meanwhile that site URL is no longer available.  Strange, it was an
> > American .gov site.
> 
> being that it was behind on what is current adobe reader, site author/owner
> had a check that did not allow for later versions, which is not unusual.
> 
> as i understand, .gov sites are under strict guidance as to how sites
> are to be maintained. could be that owner failed in his compliance.
> 
> also, .gov is not a site host, so owner may have lost her/his/their lease
> with their provider.
> 
> or she/he/they have received complaints on adobe problem and are updating
> site. never know.
> 
> give it a few days to see if it comes back.
> 
> what was url?
> 

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/74xx/doc7492/08-17-BudgetUpdate.pdf


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Re: [Bulk] Re: Firefox and Adobe Reader 8.1.7

[William Case]

Hi g;
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 19:26 +, g wrote:
> On 10/19/2010 03:43 PM, William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> > 
> > Before I start downloading Adobe Reader et al.  Why won't Firefox or
> > evince read: 
> > 
> > "Could not launch Adobe Reader 8.1.7. Please make sure it exists in PATH
> > variable in the environment. If the problem persists, please reinstall
> > the application"
> > 
> > I have run into several PDF files that can't be read.  Always could
> > before.
> 
> 
> i am showing adobe reader 9.3 in firefox 3.8.9.
> 
> 
So am I.

> maybe updating will help.
> 
> 
> from "menu bar" 'tools > add-ons > plugins' click on [find updates] at
> bottom left of window.

Tried that before posting. 

Meanwhile that site URL is no longer available.  Strange, it was an
American .gov site.

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Firefox and Adobe Reader 8.1.7

[William Case]

Hi;

Before I start downloading Adobe Reader et al.  Why won't Firefox or
evince read: 

"Could not launch Adobe Reader 8.1.7. Please make sure it exists in PATH
variable in the environment. If the problem persists, please reinstall
the application"

I have run into several PDF files that can't be read.  Always could
before.

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Evo.2.20.2, Emacs 23.2.1


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Spread Sheet Applet / Accessory.

[William Case]

Hi;

Does anyone know of a nice little spreadsheet program.  I would like
something that is equivalent to 'gnotes' but based on columns and rows.
Simple, only a few arithmetic features, that can be launched from the
panel, almost no menu.  Slightly more advanced than gcalctool but very
much smaller than gnumeric.  Just something to sort out monthly bills,
or some basic statistical data.  Simplicity is the Key.

If a project begins to grow, I want to be able to import it into one of
the bigger programs.  Something with easy clipboard usage.


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Re: [Bulk] Re: Curiosity Question -- TVTime loses focus after installing F13 - [SOLVED WITH LATEST UPDATES]

[William Case]

Hi Bill
On Sat, 2010-09-04 at 23:35 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> William Case wrote:
> > Hi Terry;
> > On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 13:01 -0400, Terry Polzin wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 12:53 -0400, William Case wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 14:46 -0400, William Case wrote:
> >> Just curious what do you do to get audio?
> > 
> > I don't get audio.  After futzing about for a long while, submitting
> > bugs, following the alsa mailing list, I gave up.  Now I just use the
> > video in Linux to check what's on, to see what my favourite programs or
> > sports are doing etc.  If I want to watch some TV, I switch to WindowsXP
> > or watch on the TV set in the livingroom.
> > 
> I'm sure this is a redundant question, but have you enabled oss sound for 
> alsa? 
> If you do an 'lsmod' is 'snd-seq-oss' present? Do you have /dev/dsp present? 
> I 
> have problems with TV because my provider serves a mashup of unencrypted HD 
> digital using over the air frequencies, encrypted content requiring a cable 
> box, 
> and unencrypted NTSC using either the broadcast or cable settings for those.
> 
> /etc/modules.d/dis-oss.conf is the disabled file, copy to oss.conf and 
> uncomment 
> the module loading, and see if that make lots of stuff work. Note: it may 
> confuse something as well, although I haven't had a problem yet.

Actually it is not a redundant question.  It is a good reminder which I
will try in the morning.  I tried it early on in process, when I first
stepped onto the TV yellow brick road. It didn't work, but then to be
fair at that time I didn't have a clue about what I was trying to do.
Now is a good time to give it another try. 
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Re: Curiosity Question -- TVTime loses focus after installing F13 - [SOLVED WITH LATEST UPDATES]

[William Case]

Hi Terry;
On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 13:01 -0400, Terry Polzin wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 12:53 -0400, William Case wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 14:46 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Just curious what do you do to get audio?

I don't get audio.  After futzing about for a long while, submitting
bugs, following the alsa mailing list, I gave up.  Now I just use the
video in Linux to check what's on, to see what my favourite programs or
sports are doing etc.  If I want to watch some TV, I switch to WindowsXP
or watch on the TV set in the livingroom.

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Re: Curiosity Question -- TVTime loses focus after installing F13 - [SOLVED WITH LATEST UPDATES]

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 14:46 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> I have a Hauppauge WinTv-HVR 1800 tuner with an analog Cable TV (NTSC -
> Canada).  In F12 I received a near perfect video picture from my cable
> TV.  In F13, the picture is black and white with various degrees of
> interference lines depending on the tv channel.
> 
> I have played with (used) TVTime quite a bit in the last 3 or 4 years so
> I am familiar with all the menu settings and the configuration file.  No
> matter what I try, I can't get the proper reception back.
> 
> I still have no analog sound for this tuner, but I see that as a
> separate Alsa problem.

My video has returned in full glorious colour after my latest upgrade
this morning.  I spent a few hours trying to chase this problem down.  I
am curious, does anybody know (off the top of your head) what might have
fixed the video?  My downloads were:

Installed: opencc-0.1.1-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: libfprint-0.2.0-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: fprintd-0.2.0-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: fprintd-pam-0.2.0-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: empathy-2.30.3-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: xorg-x11-xinit-1.0.9-18.fc13.x86_64
Installed: kernel-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.x86_64
Updated: ibus-pinyin-db-android-1.3.10-1.fc13.noarch
Updated: 1:control-center-filesystem-2.30.1-3.fc13.x86_64
Updated: 1:control-center-2.30.1-3.fc13.x86_64
Updated: 1:control-center-extra-2.30.1-3.fc13.x86_64
Updated: ibus-pinyin-1.3.10-1.fc13.x86_64
Updated: kernel-headers-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.x86_64
Installed: kernel-devel-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.x86_64
Updated: perf-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.noarch


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Re: [Bulk] Re: Java/Firefox craziness

[William Case]

On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 09:49 -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote:
> * William Case  [2010-08-30 17:14]:
> > Hi;
> > 
> > Just some clarification and double checking.

> 
> Which Canadian Govt. website are you trying to visit? There was a bug
> open about that but it should be fixed in the latest OpenJDK release in
> Fedora..
> 

The site was servicecanada.gc.ca => register for epass.

You may be right, you have clarified one thing for me, OpenJDK is the
java package I should be checking for and insuring that it is updated.
I assume it is in the Fedora 13 repo if I don't have it installed.

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Re: Java/Firefox craziness -- got it to work in IE

[William Case]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:43 -0700, suvayu ali wrote:
> On 30 August 2010 14:10, William Case  wrote:
> > Hi;
> >
> > Just some clarification and double checking.
> >
> > I want to use a Canadian government site with Firefox on Fedora 13.  I
> > get the warning message that I need Sun JVM 1.6.0_3 or greater.  There
> > is nothing in the repositories that I can see resembling Sun JVM.
> > Apparently I can download and install from Sun, but I get messages that
> > no new updates are being made available.
> >
> 
> I ran into the same problem a month ago with the Canadian government
> sites. I plan to file an bugzilla for this against openjdk when I have
> the time.
> 
I will support your bugzilla.

> You have 2 options,
> 
> 1. Install Sun Java from Sun's website. (untested)
> 2. Use Windows to complete the transaction. A virtual machine would be
> just perfect for this. :)
> 
> > (Irony => the site isn't working in WindowsXP  Explorer either)
> >
> 
> Contrary to your experience I actually submitted my application on
> Windows XP with firefox.
> 
Went back to WindowsXP and got it working.  Some firewall program
wouldn't let me download Sun Java.  Hardly spend any time in Windows any
more so I had to shift my thinking.  Once I got passed the Firewall JVM
was loaded in WindowsXP and I was OK.


> > --
> > Regards Bill
> > Fedora 13, Gnome 2.30.2
> > Evo.2.20.2, Emacs 23.2.1
> 
> -- 
> Suvayu
> 
> Open source is the future. It sets us free.

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Java/Firefox craziness

[William Case]

Hi;

Just some clarification and double checking.

I want to use a Canadian government site with Firefox on Fedora 13.  I
get the warning message that I need Sun JVM 1.6.0_3 or greater.  There
is nothing in the repositories that I can see resembling Sun JVM.
Apparently I can download and install from Sun, but I get messages that
no new updates are being made available.

Before frustration overtakes me and I start downloading unknown and
unneeded stuff.  What exactly do I want and where should I get it?

(Irony => the site isn't working in WindowsXP  Explorer either)

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Re: TVTime loses focus after installing F13

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 12:30 -0700, Michael Miles wrote:
> William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> >
> > I have a Hauppauge WinTv-HVR 1800 tuner with an analog Cable TV (NTSC -
> > Canada).  In F12 I received a near perfect video picture from my cable
> > TV.  In F13, the picture is black and white with various degrees of
> > interference lines depending on the tv channel.
> >
> > I have played with (used) TVTime quite a bit in the last 3 or 4 years so
> > I am familiar with all the menu settings and the configuration file.  No
> > matter what I try, I can't get the proper reception back.
> >
> > I still have no analog sound for this tuner, but I see that as a
> > separate Alsa problem.
> >
> > Any suggestions as to what I might be overlooking or might have
> > mis-configured with the video?
> >
> In the channel management section try and change the NTSC cable mode and 
> see if that helps
> 
> 
> Michael

I tried that; nothing improves.

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TVTime loses focus after installing F13

[William Case]

Hi;

I have a Hauppauge WinTv-HVR 1800 tuner with an analog Cable TV (NTSC -
Canada).  In F12 I received a near perfect video picture from my cable
TV.  In F13, the picture is black and white with various degrees of
interference lines depending on the tv channel.

I have played with (used) TVTime quite a bit in the last 3 or 4 years so
I am familiar with all the menu settings and the configuration file.  No
matter what I try, I can't get the proper reception back.

I still have no analog sound for this tuner, but I see that as a
separate Alsa problem.

Any suggestions as to what I might be overlooking or might have
mis-configured with the video?
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Re: New Logitech diNovo Keyboard for Notebooks seems dead ?!? [SOLVED]

[William Case]

On Sun, 2010-08-01 at 19:23 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 00:03 +0200, Frode wrote:
> > William Case skrev:
> > > Hi;
> 
> > Hi. I've used one for years without any problems, so if they haven't 
> > changed anything in it, you could have a faulty one. I take it you have 
> > syncronized the transceiver and keyboard? (If you haven't, press the 
> > connect button on the tranceiver first, then the keyboard/mouse.)
> > 
> Must be faulty. The packaging was suspicious, although its a shop I have
> dealt with for years.  The only transeiver I received was USB antennae
> 'thingy' -- no connect button. The wireless mouse purchased separately
> works fine included the transceiver.  Double checked the manual for the
> keyboard and shows no instructions for synchronizing the transceiver and
> keyboard.  Doesn't work in WindowsXP either although all the drivers are
> loaded and upgraded.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll take the keyboard back and see if they
> can find out what is wrong with either the keyboard or the operator.

Just because I think it is unfair not to mention how things get
resolved.  I have followed threads in the past that never seem to have
reached a conclusion.

Took the keyboard back.  The USB antenna/transceiver/dongle was dead.
Got a new transceiver plugged it in and everything worked.  On closer
examination of the packaging, it was obvious the keyboard had been
previously purchased, returned, repackaged, restocked and sold to me.

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Re: New Logitech diNovo Keyboard for Notebooks seems dead ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 00:03 +0200, Frode wrote:
> William Case skrev:
> > Hi;

> Hi. I've used one for years without any problems, so if they haven't 
> changed anything in it, you could have a faulty one. I take it you have 
> syncronized the transceiver and keyboard? (If you haven't, press the 
> connect button on the tranceiver first, then the keyboard/mouse.)
> 
Must be faulty. The packaging was suspicious, although its a shop I have
dealt with for years.  The only transeiver I received was USB antennae
'thingy' -- no connect button. The wireless mouse purchased separately
works fine included the transceiver.  Double checked the manual for the
keyboard and shows no instructions for synchronizing the transceiver and
keyboard.  Doesn't work in WindowsXP either although all the drivers are
loaded and upgraded.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll take the keyboard back and see if they
can find out what is wrong with either the keyboard or the operator.

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New Logitech diNovo Keyboard for Notebooks seems dead ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

Is there any known problems with the Logitech diNovo Keyboard for
Notebooks.  I have googled and don't seem to find anything applicable.

Any suggestions welcome.  If I can't get it working I am going to have
to return it on Monday.  I kind of like the style and reviews.
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How's gnash for flash comin' ?

[William Case]

Hi;

Does anybody have an idea when we might see an update for gnash. I keep
watching the threads, upgrades etc. to see if one is on the way.  I am
trying to avoid going back to adobe flash, but I am losing too many
services because of it and/or Mozilla.

The latest google (GNU and others) information I can find goes back to
Feb 15, 2010.

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Epiphany can no longe read .xml files. ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

Epiphany can no longer read .xml files. ?!?
Firefox which shares plugins and mozilla with epiphany does still read
*.xml files.

Any suggestions?  Or, what gives?


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Strange! Firefox won't play youTube videos -- Epiphany will !?!

[William Case]

Hi;

I have both nouveau and gnash installed.  I am getting beautiful YouTube
videos in Epiphany.  Firefox says I need a plugin and about:plugins is
not even showing the gnash plugins it used to.

I tried adobe flash to see if that would fix it, but no change so I
re-installed gnash.


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Lost my 3D and don't no where to find it !?!

[William Case]

Hi;

Installed Fedora 13 with nouveau driver and added
mesa-dri-drivers-experimental. Played around with compiz then removed
nouveau and replaced it with nvidia to see how that would look.
Preferred the look I got with nouveau, removed nvidia and reinstalled
nouveau and mesa-dri-drivers-experimental. My 3D is no longer recognized
by compiz.

rpm -qi says both drivers are installed.

lsmod | grep  mesa-dri-drivers-experimental returns nothing
lsmod | grep nouveau shows driver

Does anybody know what is happening and how to fix it?

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Trying to find startup script that loads appliecations in the gnome-sessons app ?!?

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 17:32 -0400, William Case wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 14:06 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:53:54 -0400
> > William Case  wrote:
> > 
> 
> > > xev | grep -m 1 ReparentNotify; firefox & xchat-gnome &

I have the following script in /usr/bin/compiz-gtk

#!/bin/bash

function runCompiz() {
gtk-window-decorator &
if ( [ -e /usr/lib/compizconfig/backends/libgconf.so ] ||
[ -e /usr/lib64/compizconfig/backends/libgconf.so ] )
then
exec compiz --ignore-desktop-hints ccp $@
else
exec compiz --ignore-desktop-hints glib gconf
gnomecompat $@
fi
}

ISSW=`glxinfo | grep "Software Rasterizer" -c`

# Try with direct rendering
HAVETFP=`glxinfo | grep texture_from_pixmap -c`

if ( [ $ISSW == 0 ] && [ $HAVETFP -gt 2 ] ); then 
runCompiz $@
fi

# Try again with indirect rendering
export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1

HAVETFP=`glxinfo | grep texture_from_pixmap -c`

if ( [ $ISSW == 0 ] && [ $HAVETFP -gt 2 ] ); then 
runCompiz $@
fi

# Fall back to metacity
exec metacity $@

I was thinking of inserting the above xev line in here somewhere before
runCompiz function. Or perhaps as a separate function.  But I can't find
where compiz-gtk gets called from on startup.


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Re: Trying to find startup script that loads appliecations in the gnome-sessons app ?!?

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 15:37 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:32:25 -0400
> William Case  wrote:
> 
> ...snip...
> 
> > > Or can you elaborate on what you are trying to do further?
> > 
> > I am using compiz to place and position certain applications'windows.
> > Firefox and xchat-gnome start before compiz, and so aren't placed or
> > positioned properly at startup.
> > 
> > All other decorating takes place as soon as compiz is loaded; other
> > programs are placed and positioned properly but are initiated later in
> > the start process.  Firefox and xchat-gnome are placed and positioned
> > properly if closed and reopened.
> > 
> > I received the above suggested line from members of my local Lug after
> > about an hour conferring on xchat-gnome.
> 
> How about taking a look at devilspie? 
> 
> % yum info devilspie
> 
> Name   : devilspie
> Arch   : x86_64
> Version: 0.22
> Release: 5.fc13
> Size   : 106 k
> Repo   : installed
> From repo  : fedora
> Summary: A window-matching utility
> URL: http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/devilspie
> License: GPLv2+
> Description: A window-matching utility, inspired by Sawfish's "Matched 
> Windows" option and
>: the lack such functionality in Metacity. Devil's Pie can be 
> configured to
>: detect windows as they are created, and match the window to a 
> set of rules.
>: If the window matches the rules, it can perform a series of 
> actions on that
>: window.
> 
> You may be able to get it to move or setup the windows the way you want?

Used devilspie in the past.  Prefer most other things that compiz has.


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Re: Trying to find startup script that loads appliecations in the gnome-sessons app ?!?

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 15:42 -0600, Phil Meyer wrote:
> On 07/08/2010 03:32 PM, William Case wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 14:06 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:53:54 -0400
> >> William Case  wrote:
> >>
> >>  
> >
> >>> xev | grep -m 1 ReparentNotify; firefox&  xchat-gnome&
> >>>
> >> Lets step back a bit. What is your high level goal here?
> >>  
> > Looking for a more elegant solution than just writing a 'sleep' script
> > to use in session-mangaer
> >
> >> gnome should remember and restart your firefox and xchat-gnome on
> >> login. Does it not do so?
> >>  
> > Yes.
> >
> >
> >> Or can you elaborate on what you are trying to do further?
> >>  
> > I am using compiz to place and position certain applications'windows.
> > Firefox and xchat-gnome start before compiz, and so aren't placed or
> > positioned properly at startup.
> >
> >
> snip
> 
> You can load the compiz fusion icon in your session startup before 
> anything else.
> 
> For me, compiz starts just after gnome-terminal, and gets all my windows 
> in the right places, including firefox, about 75% of the time.  When it 
> does not work just right are times when application pop ups get obscured.
> 
> I am also interested in getting it to be a bit more accurate ...
> 
> Good luck, and I will be looking for answers as well.
> 

In Fedora 12 I found that positioning and placing worked (or didn't
work) depending on whether I was relogging in or re-starting.
Determined that I should fix it in Fedora 13.  Just to keep the eye
candy nice.  It is no longer eye candy if you have to futz with it.



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Re: Trying to find startup script that loads appliecations in the gnome-sessons app ?!?

[William Case]

On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 14:06 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:53:54 -0400
> William Case  wrote:
> 

> > xev | grep -m 1 ReparentNotify; firefox & xchat-gnome &
> 
> Lets step back a bit. What is your high level goal here?

Looking for a more elegant solution than just writing a 'sleep' script
to use in session-mangaer
> 
> gnome should remember and restart your firefox and xchat-gnome on
> login. Does it not do so?

Yes.

> 
> Or can you elaborate on what you are trying to do further?

I am using compiz to place and position certain applications'windows.
Firefox and xchat-gnome start before compiz, and so aren't placed or
positioned properly at startup.

All other decorating takes place as soon as compiz is loaded; other
programs are placed and positioned properly but are initiated later in
the start process.  Firefox and xchat-gnome are placed and positioned
properly if closed and reopened.

I received the above suggested line from members of my local Lug after
about an hour conferring on xchat-gnome.


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Trying to find startup script that loads appliecations in the gnome-sessons app ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

I want to add a line to the script that starts the programs listed in
gnome-session-manager.  There must be (??) an rc.d script or something
like it that starts a list of startup programs kept somewhere.  I can't
find it.

I have had the following script line suggested to me.

xev | grep -m 1 ReparentNotify; firefox & xchat-gnome &


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Re: Gnome Menu curosity question ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 17:51 +, JB wrote:
> William Case  rogers.com> writes:
> 
> > 
> > ...
> Hi,
> yes, I agree with you.
> The proper menu organization should be with the topmost specifier "system"
> including all system-related menus/items.
> It is proper to reorganize the System as well and place most used items at
> the top.
> The new menu would be:
> System -> Tools   /* old Applications -> System Tools */
>-> Administration
>-> Preferences
>-> etc
> I would suggest that you let GNOME developers know of our proposal if it is
> acceptable to the majority of opinions here.
> JB
> 

Therein, of course, lies the problem.  I have reorganized so that System
Tools contains all user system stuff that doesn't require root
privileges.  And I have put all Administration programs that require
root login/password in System => Administration.  At least that gives me
a sense of which changes are dangerous.

But the present set up is just hard to remember and makes no sense.

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Gnome Menu curosity question ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

Dumb, dumb, question that has been bugging me for years.  On the Gnome
Menu, what is the difference between 'Applications => System Tools' and
'Preferences => Administration'?  There seems to be no rhyme or reason
why some applications are placed in one category rather than another.

I find it a PIA remembering where seldom used applications are.  I have
reorganized the menu several times to reflect my personal definition.
However with every new Fedora version I lose my reorganized menu files.

Perhaps if I had a reasonable explanation that made sense, I would have
an aide de memoire to guess more correctly where a program is.


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Re: Spam in 'Unmatched' folder - [SORRY WRONG LIST]

[William Case]

On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 15:22 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> Just virgin installed Fedora 13 with Evolution 2.20.3 upgrade.
> Bogofilter s on.  Spam in 'Unmatched' folder no longer being removed
> when marked junk. A copy then appears in Junk folder.  Deleting the spam
> in 'Unmatched' deletes it from the 'Junk' folder as well.
> 
> Is anybody else experiencing this? Should I file it as a bug?
> 
> -- 
> Regards Bill
> Fedora 13, Gnome 2.30.2
> Evo.2.20.2, Emacs 23.2.1
> 

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Spam in 'Unmatched' folder no longer being removed when marked junk ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

Just virgin installed Fedora 13 with Evolution 2.20.3 upgrade.
Bogofilter s on.  Spam in 'Unmatched' folder no longer being removed
when marked junk. A copy then appears in Junk folder.  Deleting the spam
in 'Unmatched' deletes it from the 'Junk' folder as well.

Is anybody else experiencing this? Should I file it as a bug?

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TVTime and nouveau ?!?

[William Case]

Hi;

Just installed F13 with the nouveau driver with the
mesa-dri-drivers-experimental.  TVTime used to work under F12 and the
nvidia driver.  Now I have an ugly picture full of interference. The
only thing I think has changed is the video driver.

Is anyone else having the same, or similar problem with TVTime ?  Should
I revert to the proprietary nvidia driver ?


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Re: [Bulk] Discussion/help re: spellcheck shortcut ?!?

[William Case]

Hi Frank;

On Mon, 2010-06-28 at 11:27 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-06-28 at 13:08 -0400, William Case wrote:
> > Any other thoughts or suggestions would truly be appreciated.
> 
> What you are asking for reminds me very much of Borland Turbo Lightning,
> a DOS TSR spelling checker from years back that I used to use with the
> msged program on my Fidonet node.

I remember using TSR's.  There were several 'neat' little ones that I
remember fondly.  

This spell check key thing seems like an obvious need to me.  I have
reached my final level of typing and spelling incompetence so have to do
a lot of back tracking to flagged spelling mistakes. There always seems
to be a lot of fumbling, reaching for the mouse, clicking and entering
involved. One or two simple keystrokes would be preferable.

Oh well 

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Re: [Bulk] Discussion/help re: spellcheck shortcut ?!?

[William Case]

Hi,
On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 15:36 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> I may be getting into something here that may be too complex, but ...
> 
> I would like to create a script or other programming that I can bind to
> a shortcut key (Say Ctrl+Alt+F7) that does the following as I am typing:
> 
> When typing along and a previous word appears underlined in read as a
> spelling error (or however marked) I can use my shortcut key to:
> 
> a) jump back to the first marked word;
> b) select that word;
> c) show the context menu with correction choices;
> d) select a suggested correction, or not, as the case may be;
> e) enter; making the correction; 
> f) leave the cursor on or at the corrected word;
> g) ready to either repeat the jump back to an even earlier mis-spelled
> word or move to the end of the line with  or whatever.
> 
> 1) I don't need in depth details.  I think I can handle that.  I am
> looking for suggestions on how best to go about tackling the problem.
> Should this be a bash script etc. ?
> 
> 2) I would like the script to be as universal as possible.  Using
> hunspell is obvious.  Is aspell still necessary or has fedora's
> applications with spellchecking all gone over to hunspell?  Does this
> even make a difference?
> 
> 3) Where is the best place to do the binding? In gnome shortcut keys
> configuration or some place more basic?
> 
> Any other thoughts or suggestions would truly be appreciated.
> 

Under which application or category would I file the above as a Request
For Enhancement -- there seem to ba a lot of possibilities ?

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Re: [Bulk] Frustration -- can't find the icon picker application on m system?? [SOLVED]

[William Case]

On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 21:54 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> What is the name of the little application that pops up when you are
> trying to pick a new icon in a launcher ? 
> 

It can be found in gconf-editor, look
for /apps/gnome-settings/gnome-panel/history-desktop-icon

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Frustration -- can't find the icon picker application on m system??

[William Case]

Hi;

What is the name of the little application that pops up when you are
trying to pick a new icon in a launcher ? 

Googled etc. and found a page that only said Fedora has it's own version
rather than the gnome version.  Another site said it was called
assogiate. It's not.

Where would I find it in Configuration Editor? Or anywhere in my files?
 
More to the point -- the browse drop down menu it uses has about 25
addresses in it, mostly repeats. How would I remove most of those
unnecessary addresses? 

Came across it by accident several months (years) ago.  I can't find it
again.

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