Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On Sun, 2014-08-31 at 22:48 -0700, Tod Merley wrote: My test for a bad CMOS battery is simply to load the default CMOS values - make sure the machine is NOT turned off - and see if the problem goes away - but returns after the machine is turned off (for a time). I've come across computers that foul up when powered up with a dead CMOS battery. I get the impression that some BIOSs have parts of themselves powered only by the battery, and don't get anything from the main power supply. But frankly if you are going to go to all that trouble - for the cost (see: http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-CR2032-Lithium-Battery-packs/dp/B00FO9HQLS/ ) you might as well keep some on hand and replace them while you are in there. The shelf life of some batteries is not that different from their operating life. I wouldn't keep spares around for long. I seem to recall that /that/ battery has a lifespan of about 3-4 years, whether in the computer or unopened in the packet. It seems to be the way with lithium batteries. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.15.10-201.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Wed Aug 27 21:33:30 UTC 2014 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On 08/31/2014 11:13 PM, Tim wrote: I've come across computers that foul up when powered up with a dead CMOS battery. I get the impression that some BIOSs have parts of themselves powered only by the battery, and don't get anything from the main power supply. Well, of course. What do you think powers the CMOS when the computer's off? However, the clock will start to run slow long enough before the battery dies as a warning. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
Tim: I've come across computers that foul up when powered up with a dead CMOS battery. I get the impression that some BIOSs have parts of themselves powered only by the battery, and don't get anything from the main power supply. Joe Zeff: Well, of course. What do you think powers the CMOS when the computer's off? However, the clock will start to run slow long enough before the battery dies as a warning. I was thinking in the other direction: That when mains power is available, the main supply powers the CMOS instead of the battery, to prolong its life. It's a common enough circuit, in some devices. A diode from supply to clock and memory circuits, a diode from back-up battery to the same circuit, the greatest voltage drives everything. By foul up when powered up with a dead CMOS battery I meant while powered up (from the mains) and with a dead CMOS battery... -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.15.10-201.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Wed Aug 27 21:33:30 UTC 2014 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On 09/01/2014 03:28 AM, Tim wrote: I was thinking in the other direction: That when mains power is available, the main supply powers the CMOS instead of the battery, to prolong its life. Not only does the regular power supply run the CMOS, it recharges the battery, which is why they last so long. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 12:39:48PM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: On 09/01/2014 03:28 AM, Tim wrote: I was thinking in the other direction: That when mains power is available, the main supply powers the CMOS instead of the battery, to prolong its life. Not only does the regular power supply run the CMOS, it recharges the battery, which is why they last so long. Actuaqlly,Ithink not. most boards I've seenin recent yearsuse a cr2032 lithium, a non-rechargeable battery. theyt last 5-8 years because they're lithijum. a couple decades ago I had some boards with a small-cad battery, which one might think was a good idea, but in 3-5 years they leak all over the circuitry, ruining the board and/or other components. Fred -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. --- Romans 5:8 (niv) -- -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On Sun, 2014-08-31 at 14:12 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote: It sort of looks like a RAM problem to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty Well, they can... When it comes to recycling, all bets are off, particularly if nobody took anti-static precautions while handling the parts. But, for the sake of a simple thing to try, I'd try cleaning the contacts in the RAM sockets, and the on the RAM sticks, with electrical contact cleaner and lubricant. Likewise, for other plug-in cards. If you have another power supply to try, substitute it. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.15.10-200.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Thu Aug 14 16:12:39 UTC 2014 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On 08/31/2014 06:12 AM, Philip Rhoades wrote: People, I have been trying to build a usable PC out of old - but previously unused hardware (motherboards, CPUs, RAM, 80GB Seagate disks, power supplies) - but whatever combination I use I continually get core dumps - I have reinstalled on numerous occasions and sometimes the PC works for hours without a problem and then fails - but quite frequently it fails on bootup! I have tried with 2G RAM but that had problems so I went back to 1G thinking that one SIMM might be faulty but no combination works for any reasonable length of time. Which CPU are you using? Unless it's a hardware defect somewhere, I'm inclined to believe you could be trying to run an incompatible kernel. Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
Yes, I think a HW list along with the SW being tried would likely prove helpful here. On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:48 AM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote: On 08/31/2014 06:12 AM, Philip Rhoades wrote: People, I have been trying to build a usable PC out of old - but previously unused hardware (motherboards, CPUs, RAM, 80GB Seagate disks, power supplies) - but whatever combination I use I continually get core dumps - I have reinstalled on numerous occasions and sometimes the PC works for hours without a problem and then fails - but quite frequently it fails on bootup! I have tried with 2G RAM but that had problems so I went back to 1G thinking that one SIMM might be faulty but no combination works for any reasonable length of time. Which CPU are you using? Unless it's a hardware defect somewhere, I'm inclined to believe you could be trying to run an incompatible kernel. Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
People, See inline responses to three replies: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 17:22:23 +0930 From: Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au On Sun, 2014-08-31 at 14:12 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote: It sort of looks like a RAM problem to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty Well, they can... When it comes to recycling, all bets are off, particularly if nobody took anti-static precautions while handling the parts. I haven't had that sort of bad SIMM frequency before but it is possible I guess . . But, for the sake of a simple thing to try, I'd try cleaning the contacts in the RAM sockets, and the on the RAM sticks, with electrical contact cleaner and lubricant. Likewise, for other plug-in cards. OK, I will try that when I am on site again in a week or so. If you have another power supply to try, substitute it. Yep, did that with a new (current) PS - crashed on bootup . . Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 10:48:37 +0200 From: Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de On 08/31/2014 06:12 AM, Philip Rhoades wrote: People, I have been trying to build a usable PC out of old - but previously unused hardware (motherboards, CPUs, RAM, 80GB Seagate disks, power supplies) - but whatever combination I use I continually get core dumps - I have reinstalled on numerous occasions and sometimes the PC works for hours without a problem and then fails - but quite frequently it fails on bootup! I have tried with 2G RAM but that had problems so I went back to 1G thinking that one SIMM might be faulty but no combination works for any reasonable length of time. Which CPU are you using? Unless it's a hardware defect somewhere, I'm inclined to believe you could be trying to run an incompatible kernel. Hmmm . . that MB is for Socket478 processors and I definitely installed the 32 bit F20 (LiveCD install) - how could it be incompatible? Would F20 64bit even install? Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 02:48:40 -0700 From: Tod Merley todbo...@gmail.com Yes, I think a HW list along with the SW being tried would likely prove helpful here. OK, that will have to wait till I can get back on site again too - of course my remote ssh connection doesn't work now because of another crash - I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did! On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:48 AM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote: On 08/31/2014 06:12 AM, Philip Rhoades wrote: People, I have been trying to build a usable PC out of old - but previously unused hardware (motherboards, CPUs, RAM, 80GB Seagate disks, power supplies) - but whatever combination I use I continually get core dumps - I have reinstalled on numerous occasions and sometimes the PC works for hours without a problem and then fails - but quite frequently it fails on bootup! I have tried with 2G RAM but that had problems so I went back to 1G thinking that one SIMM might be faulty but no combination works for any reasonable length of time. Which CPU are you using? Unless it's a hardware defect somewhere, I'm inclined to believe you could be trying to run an incompatible kernel. Thanks people - more info to come later! Regards, Phil. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On 08/31/2014 04:19 PM, Philip Rhoades wrote: Which CPU are you using? Unless it's a hardware defect somewhere, I'm inclined to believe you could be trying to run an incompatible kernel. Hmmm . . that MB is for Socket478 processors It would be really helpful if you'd tell us which processor it exactly is. and I definitely installed the 32 bit F20 (LiveCD install) - how could it be incompatible? Yes, there are 2 different 32bit kernels: kernel and kernel-PAE. The kernel-PAE requires the CPU to support pae, while the kernel should be able to run without. A CPU w/o pae-support would be incompatible to the pae-enabled kernel. Would F20 64bit even install? I am not sure, but IIRC, Socket 478-era processor all were 32bit and did not support pae. Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
| From: Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de | I am not sure, but IIRC, Socket 478-era processor all were 32bit and did not | support pae. Socket 478 was for Pentium 4 Northwood processors and some later ones. PAE was introduced with the Pentium Pro. As far as I know, all P4 processors had PAE. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
| From: Philip Rhoades p...@pricom.com.au | Any ideas what the problem(s) might be? It sort of looks like a RAM problem | to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty . . When I have a flaky system, I fire up memtest86+ and let it rip for 12 to 24 hours. I sometimes finds an error. If the memory passes, I no longer have niggling doubts. I've found power supplies can be a source of instability. But you've tested that. Try a really old distro to see it is stable. Old paths in new distros don't get tested much. There are the old tricks of passing kernel parameters to turn off certain tricky bits like ACPI. Video is sometimes a problem too. Your hardware is worth very little at this point. If you value your time, you might consider giving up. But I understand the joys of scrounging and of problem solving. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:12 PM, Philip Rhoades p...@pricom.com.au wrote: It sort of looks like a RAM problem to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty . . They could be. memtest86+ to find out. Another possibility is they're the wrong SIMMs for the hardware, i.e. wrong timing or voltage. There might be BIOS settings for adjusting this. Chris Murphy -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
distrowatch.com search old computers I like Puppy linux as a place to start. Probably Wary. On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:12 PM, Philip Rhoades p...@pricom.com.au wrote: It sort of looks like a RAM problem to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty . . They could be. memtest86+ to find out. Another possibility is they're the wrong SIMMs for the hardware, i.e. wrong timing or voltage. There might be BIOS settings for adjusting this. Chris Murphy -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
Chris, Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 14:00:08 -0600 From: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps Message-ID: a581661f-4930-4984-88dd-58a18d23e...@colorremedies.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:12 PM, Philip Rhoades p...@pricom.com.au wrote: It sort of looks like a RAM problem to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty . . They could be. memtest86+ to find out. Another possibility is they're the wrong SIMMs for the hardware, i.e. wrong timing or voltage. There might be BIOS settings for adjusting this. I will check them out but all the hardware was bought originally (years ago) to be compatible . . Thanks, Phil. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
Tod, Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 15:36:41 -0700 From: Tod Merley todbo...@gmail.com To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps Message-ID: CAPLzRZ9KVHCvCLSpP2PArwCvBJnihPmwewQWJJ=kjbgrf+0...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 distrowatch.com search old computers I like Puppy linux as a place to start. Probably Wary. Yes, I have used Puppy in the past - it is worth a shot since I am getting desperate . . The other thing (which might just have been coincidence) is that when I booted on the USB for the LiveCD, it did seem to stay up without any problems - but the PC was not in that state for long periods of time so I might just have been lucky at those times . . Thanks, Phil. On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:12 PM, Philip Rhoades p...@pricom.com.au wrote: It sort of looks like a RAM problem to me but ALL the SIMMS can't be faulty . . They could be. memtest86+ to find out. Another possibility is they're the wrong SIMMs for the hardware, i.e. wrong timing or voltage. There might be BIOS settings for adjusting this. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
On 08/31/2014 09:56 PM, Tod Merley wrote: cmos battery That's an easy one to check for, especially on a laptop that's not on 24/7: go into your CMOS settings after it's been turned off for several hours (overnight should be ample) and see if the clock's running slow. Computers have been built to do that when the battery's running low for decades as a warning. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F20 + Old but unused hardware continually core dumps
My test for a bad CMOS battery is simply to load the default CMOS values - make sure the machine is NOT turned off - and see if the problem goes away - but returns after the machine is turned off (for a time). HP suggests several things to look at (Joe's suggestion included): http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=bph03560cc=usdlc=enlc=en Some suggest using a meter (watch that it's impedance is very high and that your fingers do not make you part of the circuit - very very low current draw capabilities in these things): http://smallbusiness.chron.com/check-battery-level-bios-47576.html But frankly if you are going to go to all that trouble - for the cost (see: http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-CR2032-Lithium-Battery-packs/dp/B00FO9HQLS/ ) you might as well keep some on hand and replace them while you are in there. On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 08/31/2014 09:56 PM, Tod Merley wrote: cmos battery That's an easy one to check for, especially on a laptop that's not on 24/7: go into your CMOS settings after it's been turned off for several hours (overnight should be ample) and see if the clock's running slow. Computers have been built to do that when the battery's running low for decades as a warning. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
