Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:03:37 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > Check how it did the partitioning. I have no idea what it will do when > there are two drives. Custom or blivet partitioning would have been > much better for your case. df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on devtmpfs 7.8G 0 7.8G 0% /dev tmpfs 7.8G 0 7.8G 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 7.8G 1.6M 7.8G 1% /run /dev/mapper/fedora-root00 15G 9.4G 5.7G 63% / tmpfs 7.8G 156K 7.8G 1% /tmp /dev/sda1 1014M 195M 820M 20% /boot tmpfs 1.6G 128K 1.6G 1% /run/user/1000 I did manage a couple of times to set Anaconda to use the 2TB drive as /home, with / and or /root on the smaller drive. But I didn't understand, and it wouldn't tell, what was wrong with those arrangements. -- Beartooth Staffwright, Erstwhile Historian of Tongues Sclerotic Squirreler, Double Retiree, Linux Evangelist ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 6/11/20 11:34 AM, Beartooth wrote: Yesterday, I Beartooth wrote: The whole PC is now a backup; so I'd have no hesitation to DBAN it, install F32, and recopy data from my present #1 machine. I did think it seemed to have surprisingly little storage when I did that df -h; but if I understand better now, that 1.7T is real -- and, I hope, available for other uses. Is that so? Maybe I don't need to wipe it? Lish me wuck. My old DBAN medium failed in five seconds flat on interactive, and failed again in five more on autonuke. So I burned a medium for F32 netinstall, and booted from that. There was no need to wipe it before anyway. As usual, I missed some boneheaded thing, and couldn't get Anaconda to accept any manual partitioning I tried; so I eventually just let it go automatic. It finished all right, and I'm adding apps. Check how it did the partitioning. I have no idea what it will do when there are two drives. Custom or blivet partitioning would have been much better for your case. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
Yesterday, I Beartooth wrote: >> The whole PC is now a backup; so I'd have no hesitation to DBAN it, >> install F32, and recopy data from my >> present #1 machine. I did think it seemed to have surprisingly little >> storage when I did that df -h; but if I understand better now, that >> 1.7T is real -- and, I hope, available for other uses. Is that so? >> Maybe I don't need to wipe it? Lish me wuck. My old DBAN medium failed in five seconds flat on interactive, and failed again in five more on autonuke. So I burned a medium for F32 netinstall, and booted from that. As usual, I missed some boneheaded thing, and couldn't get Anaconda to accept any manual partitioning I tried; so I eventually just let it go automatic. It finished all right, and I'm adding apps. Beforehand, last night and this morning, I had copied my whole home directory to a thumb stick. Then this morning I merged it into the home directory of my #1 machine, which I'm using now. And I'm in process of merging it into #3. When that's done, I'll copy it back, knowing it works. Many, many thanks to all hands, and especially to Samuel Sieb, for all the help! -- Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 6/9/20 9:16 AM, Beartooth wrote: On Mon, 08 Jun 2020 11:18:21 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: it or doing copy and paste. "ls -a /.snapshots" (It's plural...) # ls -a /.snapshots . .. alpha.0 lost+found I should have said "ls -l". I'm just curious what that is. Can you do "file /.snapshots/alpha.0" and if it's a directory, do "ls -la /.snapshots/alpha.0""? To find out how it's getting mounted, do "mount | grep snapshot" and "cat /etc/fstab". (You don't need to include the whole thing, just see if there's a relevant line in there.) Also, what about "lsof /.snapshots"? # lsof /.snapshots lsof: WARNING: can't stat() fuse.gvfsd-fuse file system /run/user/65536/ gvfs Output information may be incomplete. It says "incomplete"; but the lines above are its whole output. Yes, you can ignore that warning. It appears like you took a large hard drive and set it up for some backup system, but I have no idea what one would work like that. I don't know what the friend did. The whole PC is now a backup; so I'd have no hesitation to DBAN it, install F32, and recopy data from my present #1 machine. I did think it seemed to have surprisingly little storage when I did that df -h; but if I understand better now, that 1.7T is real -- and, I hope, available for other uses. Is that so? Maybe I don't need to wipe it? If there's nothing important on the computer or the hard drive, I would suggest reinstalling it. You can use the SSD for the root filesystem and put /home on the big drive. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 16:16 +, Beartooth wrote: > I did think it seemed to have surprisingly little > > storage when I did that df -h; but if I understand better now, that 1.7T > > is real -- and, I hope, available for other uses. Is that so? Maybe I > > don't need to wipe it? If 'df' says that space is there, then you can believe it. Wiping it or not is up to you, but a new install will be happier on a clean partition (or in fact several partitions in order to keep /home separate from root). However AFAIK the standard Fedora installer will do this for you. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, 08 Jun 2020 11:18:21 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/8/20 9:35 AM, Beartooth wrote: >> On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 14:07:29 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: >>> It's not a file. It appears to be an lvm volume, kind of like a >>> partition. It's mounted at /.snapshot, so what does "ls -a >>> /.snapshot" >>> show you? >> >> Now it gets weird. I tried that command both as user and as root, >> and got only >> >> ls: cannot access '/.snapshot': No such file or directory > > Not weird, just my mistake. I retyped from memory instead of looking at > it or doing copy and paste. "ls -a /.snapshots" (It's plural...) # ls -a /.snapshots . .. alpha.0 lost+found > Also, what about "lsof /.snapshots"? # lsof /.snapshots lsof: WARNING: can't stat() fuse.gvfsd-fuse file system /run/user/65536/ gvfs Output information may be incomplete. It says "incomplete"; but the lines above are its whole output. >> For most of my time, there has been no question whether I would >> snarl up a machine, but only when. So every time I bought a new one, I >> kept the old one and the one before it, in order to be able to holler >> for help. > > Sounds like a good plan. :-) > >> Disk /dev/sdb: 1.84 TiB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Disk >> model: WDC WD20EZRZ-00Z Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector >> size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size >> (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk >> identifier: 772CAD71-6AAB-4868-9D69-C46B183C9581 >> >> Device StartEndSectors Size Type /dev/sdb12048 >> 251903 249856 122M Microsoft reserved /dev/sdb2 251904 >> 3907026943 3906775040 1.8T Linux filesystem > > Was this drive brought over from a windows system? But anyway, there's > your storage. It's my wife's previous machine, a System76 PC from several years back. (She thinks five to eight years.) Being from them, it arrived with Ubuntu (only, afaik). But I had so much trouble installing Fedora (trouble I had not had with an early System76 netbook) that I had to call a friend here, who came and did the install for me. All I can think of, and it seems unlikely, is that System76 might for some reason have started with a Windows machine, not bare metal. Maybe that's why. > It appears like you took a large hard drive and set it up for some > backup system, but I have no idea what one would work like that. I don't know what the friend did. The whole PC is now a backup; so I'd have no hesitation to DBAN it, install F32, and recopy data from my present #1 machine. I did think it seemed to have surprisingly little storage when I did that df -h; but if I understand better now, that 1.7T is real -- and, I hope, available for other uses. Is that so? Maybe I don't need to wipe it? -- Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Linux Power User I have precious (very precious) little idea where up is. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 6/8/20 9:35 AM, Beartooth wrote: On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 14:07:29 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: It's not a file. It appears to be an lvm volume, kind of like a partition. It's mounted at /.snapshot, so what does "ls -a /.snapshot" show you? Now it gets weird. I tried that command both as user and as root, and got only ls: cannot access '/.snapshot': No such file or directory Not weird, just my mistake. I retyped from memory instead of looking at it or doing copy and paste. "ls -a /.snapshots" (It's plural...) Also, what about "lsof /.snapshots"? For most of my time, there has been no question whether I would snarl up a machine, but only when. So every time I bought a new one, I kept the old one and the one before it, in order to be able to holler for help. Sounds like a good plan. :-) Disk /dev/sdb: 1.84 TiB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Disk model: WDC WD20EZRZ-00Z Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: 772CAD71-6AAB-4868-9D69-C46B183C9581 Device StartEndSectors Size Type /dev/sdb12048 251903 249856 122M Microsoft reserved /dev/sdb2 251904 3907026943 3906775040 1.8T Linux filesystem Was this drive brought over from a windows system? But anyway, there's your storage. It appears like you took a large hard drive and set it up for some backup system, but I have no idea what one would work like that. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, 08 Jun 2020 09:39:28 +0200, Bob Marcan wrote: > Seems almost nobody is using the command line. > GUI for everything. > I like to see how will they solve the repetitive task. :-) I gave that a fresh thread, called Interfaces. -- Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Linux Power User I have precious (very precious) little idea where up is. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, 2020-06-08 at 17:13 +0200, Bob Marcan wrote: > > > But to list it, the command is "dir". > > > Seems almost nobody is using the command line. > > I cut my teeth with 'ls' and never use 'dir', but that's by the way. > > poc > > > I was talking about Windows, not Unix. :-) Ah, that wasn't clear. Never mind. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 14:07:29 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/7/20 10:42 AM, I Beartooth wrote: >> Going into the GUI, right clicking and choosing priorities, I see: > > What gui? Right-clicking on what? Sorry. Mate. I clicked on the desktop icon for Computer, then Filesystem, dev, mapper; that displayed backup_vg-backup among others; I right-clicked on it. >> Link to block device (inode/blockdevice) > > Yes, it's a block device. [] > An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a > file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more > complicated than that. A block device is storage that accesses data in > chunks. For example, hard drives can only access data in chunks of 512 > bytes. You can't directly access a specific byte. OK, I think I follow that. Thanks! >> I'm wondering whether *any* file on an old machine could be so big >> as a terabyte, let alone two. If not, what if anything is df -h telling >> me about this machine as compared to my others? Anything about speed or >> storage? > > It's not a file. It appears to be an lvm volume, kind of like a > partition. It's mounted at /.snapshot, so what does "ls -a /.snapshot" > show you? Now it gets weird. I tried that command both as user and as root, and got only ls: cannot access '/.snapshot': No such file or directory >> I also have a still broader question. Instead of keeping each >> machine, as heretofore, as nearly in sync with the others, actually as >> close a copy of the others, might it be reasonably safe to keep one for >> constant use and the others as supporting specialists of some sort. > > That's completely up to you and what you want to use it for. IOW, it's a reasonable thing to do, given that old evils like dependency hell are pretty well gone. Good. All hail the developers! For most of my time, there has been no question whether I would snarl up a machine, but only when. So every time I bought a new one, I kept the old one and the one before it, in order to be able to holler for help. > To figure out what's going on with that storage, run the following four > commands and copy their output: > vgs # vgs VG#PV #LV #SN Attr VSizeVFree backup_vg 1 1 0 wz--n- <1.82t0 fedora 1 3 0 wz--n- <110.79g0 lvs # lvs LV VGAttr LSize Pool Origin Data% Meta% Move Log Cpy%Sync Convert backup backup_vg -wi-ao <1.82t home fedora-wi-ao 52.92g root fedora-wi-ao 50.00g swap fedora-wi-ao 7.86g fdisk -l # fdisk -l Disk /dev/sda: 111.81 GiB, 120034123776 bytes, 234441648 sectors Disk model: Samsung SSD 850 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0x57db626c Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type /dev/sda1 * 2048 2099199 2097152 1G 83 Linux /dev/sda2 2099200 234440703 232341504 110.8G 8e Linux LVM Disk /dev/sdb: 1.84 TiB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Disk model: WDC WD20EZRZ-00Z Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: 772CAD71-6AAB-4868-9D69-C46B183C9581 Device StartEndSectors Size Type /dev/sdb12048 251903 249856 122M Microsoft reserved /dev/sdb2 251904 3907026943 3906775040 1.8T Linux filesystem Disk /dev/mapper/fedora-root: 50 GiB, 53687091200 bytes, 104857600 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk /dev/mapper/fedora-swap: 7.88 GiB, 8443133952 bytes, 16490496 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk /dev/mapper/fedora-home: 52.94 GiB, 56824430592 bytes, 110985216 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk /dev/mapper/backup_vg-backup: 1.84 TiB, 2000267771904 bytes, 3906772992 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes lsblk -t NAME ALIGNMENT MIN-IO OPT-IO PHY-SEC LOG-SEC ROTA SCHED RQ-SIZE RA WSAME sda 0512 0 512 5120 bfq64 1280B ├─sda1 0512 0 512 5120 bfq64 1280B └─sda2
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, 08 Jun 2020 10:37:38 +0100 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Mon, 2020-06-08 at 09:39 +0200, Bob Marcan wrote: > > On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:51:54 -0400 > > Fred Smith wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 07:59:43AM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > > > > On 2020-06-08 07:45, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > > > An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that > > > > > > > describes a > > > > > > > file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but > > > > > > > it's more > > > > > > > complicated than that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory > > > > > > entry, > > > > > > it's something a directory entry points to. > > > > > > > > > > *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical > > > > > user a simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. > > > > > I also pretty clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My > > > > > first description was correct and then I gave a simpler concept that > > > > > was good enough. > > > > > > > > I knew what you meant. :-) > > > > > > > > Sometimes I feel it is unfortunate that the term "directory" is used > > > > when a "folder" would seem better > > > > in some cases. > > > > > > they were called directories long before Apple (or was it MS?) decided > > > to "simplify" it by calling them folders. > > > > > > > But to list it, the command is "dir". > > Seems almost nobody is using the command line. > > I cut my teeth with 'ls' and never use 'dir', but that's by the way. > > poc I was talking about Windows, not Unix. :-) BR, Bob ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 04:40, Bob Marcan wrote: > On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:51:54 -0400 > Fred Smith wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 07:59:43AM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > > > On 2020-06-08 07:45, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > > Sometimes I feel it is unfortunate that the term "directory" is used > when a "folder" would seem better > > > in some cases. > > > > they were called directories long before Apple (or was it MS?) decided > > to "simplify" it by calling them folders. > Folders are part of the "Desktop" metaphor, which goes back to the 1930's with Vannevar Bush's Memex.Directories are the low-level building blocks for GUI folders. > > But to list it, the command is "dir". > Seems almost nobody is using the command line. > GUI for everything. > I like to see how will they solve the repetitive task. :-) > Too many do it with 100's of mouse clicks all day long, day after day resulting in RSI, and painful to watch. Sometimes I offer to provide a bash loop. Now ESA has a system called SNAP, programmed in Java, which can greatly reduce the number of mouse clicks in certain image processing workflows. You can connect operation icons using a GUI to produce an image processing workflow graph. Internally the system has a graph processing facility that splits large images into tiles and loops through the individual pixels, Users only need to select files in the GUI, fill in some forms for parameters and click on "Run". There is a batch processor where you provide a list of input files -- bash loops can't compete. -- George N. White III ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, 2020-06-08 at 09:39 +0200, Bob Marcan wrote: > On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:51:54 -0400 > Fred Smith wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 07:59:43AM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > > > On 2020-06-08 07:45, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > > An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a > > > > > > file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's > > > > > > more > > > > > > complicated than that. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory > > > > > entry, > > > > > it's something a directory entry points to. > > > > > > > > *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical user > > > > a simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. I also > > > > pretty clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My first > > > > description was correct and then I gave a simpler concept that was good > > > > enough. > > > > > > I knew what you meant. :-) > > > > > > Sometimes I feel it is unfortunate that the term "directory" is used when > > > a "folder" would seem better > > > in some cases. > > > > they were called directories long before Apple (or was it MS?) decided > > to "simplify" it by calling them folders. > > > > But to list it, the command is "dir". > Seems almost nobody is using the command line. I cut my teeth with 'ls' and never use 'dir', but that's by the way. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 16:45 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a > > > file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more > > > complicated than that. > > > > Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory entry, > > it's something a directory entry points to. > > *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical user > a simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. I also > pretty clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My first > description was correct and then I gave a simpler concept that was good > enough. Well, of course you know what an inode is and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I just think that saying it's like a directory entry (even with the qualification) is not helpful, especially as the term 'directory entry' crops up in this context and means something different. Put it down to my many years teaching this stuff but I'm always thinking about how the student might misunderstand something. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:51:54 -0400 Fred Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 07:59:43AM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > > On 2020-06-08 07:45, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > >> On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > >>> An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a > > >>> file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more > > >>> complicated than that. > > >> > > >> Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory entry, > > >> it's something a directory entry points to. > > > > > > *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical user a > > > simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. I also > > > pretty clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My first > > > description was correct and then I gave a simpler concept that was good > > > enough. > > > > I knew what you meant. :-) > > > > Sometimes I feel it is unfortunate that the term "directory" is used when a > > "folder" would seem better > > in some cases. > > they were called directories long before Apple (or was it MS?) decided > to "simplify" it by calling them folders. > But to list it, the command is "dir". Seems almost nobody is using the command line. GUI for everything. I like to see how will they solve the repetitive task. :-) BR, Bob ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 07:59:43AM +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > On 2020-06-08 07:45, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > >> On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > >>> An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a > >>> file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more > >>> complicated than that. > >> > >> Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory entry, > >> it's something a directory entry points to. > > > > *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical user a > > simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. I also pretty > > clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My first description was > > correct and then I gave a simpler concept that was good enough. > > I knew what you meant. :-) > > Sometimes I feel it is unfortunate that the term "directory" is used when a > "folder" would seem better > in some cases. they were called directories long before Apple (or was it MS?) decided to "simplify" it by calling them folders. -- Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us - "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." -- Matthew 7:21 (niv) - ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 2020-06-08 07:45, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: >>> An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a >>> file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more >>> complicated than that. >> >> Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory entry, >> it's something a directory entry points to. > > *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical user a > simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. I also pretty > clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My first description was > correct and then I gave a simpler concept that was good enough. I knew what you meant. :-) Sometimes I feel it is unfortunate that the term "directory" is used when a "folder" would seem better in some cases. When you walk into a building you see a sign on the wall with a list of companies and what floor they can be found on. That sign is often called a "directory" and an "entry" on the directory indicates where the company is located. From that point of view an inode is an entry in a "directory" (inode table) with pointers (and other info) to where a file or "folder" can be found in storage. -- The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 6/7/20 2:52 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more complicated than that. Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory entry, it's something a directory entry points to. *I* know what an inode is but I was trying to give a non-technical user a simpler idea of it since he really doesn't need the details. I also pretty clearly said it wasn't really a directory entry. My first description was correct and then I gave a simpler concept that was good enough. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:07 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a > file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more > complicated than that. Sorry to be That Guy, but an inode is definitely not a directory entry, it's something a directory entry points to. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 6/7/20 10:42 AM, Beartooth wrote: On a System76 PC several years old, running F32 fully updated (not Ubuntu), I see the following: $ df -h FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on devtmpfs 7.8G 0 7.8G 0% /dev tmpfs 7.8G 0 7.8G 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 7.8G 1.6M 7.8G 1% /run /dev/mapper/fedora-root49G 16G 31G 35% / tmpfs 7.8G 60K 7.8G 1% /tmp /dev/mapper/fedora-home52G 20G 30G 40% /home /dev/sda1 976M 252M 658M 28% /boot /dev/mapper/backup_vg-backup 1.8T 174M 1.7T 1% /.snapshots tmpfs 1.6G 60K 1.6G 1% /run/user/65536 bash-5.0$ Going into the GUI, right clicking and choosing priorities, I see: What gui? Right-clicking on what? Link to block device (inode/blockdevice) Yes, it's a block device. So I searched inode, but got over my head in no time. Searching snapshot was a little more comprehensible, but using what I think it told me would demand knowledge I lack. I also tried blockdevice, and that *really* got me into a jungle of jargon. An inode is the chunk of metadata in the filesystem that describes a file. You could think of it simply as a directory entry, but it's more complicated than that. A block device is storage that accesses data in chunks. For example, hard drives can only access data in chunks of 512 bytes. You can't directly access a specific byte. I'm wondering whether *any* file on an old machine could be so big as a terabyte, let alone two. If not, what if anything is df -h telling me about this machine as compared to my others? Anything about speed or storage? It's not a file. It appears to be an lvm volume, kind of like a partition. It's mounted at /.snapshot, so what does "ls -a /.snapshot" show you? I also have a still broader question. Instead of keeping each machine, as heretofore, as nearly in sync with the others, actually as close a copy of the others, might it be reasonably safe to keep one for constant use and the others as supporting specialists of some sort. That's completely up to you and what you want to use it for. To figure out what's going on with that storage, run the following four commands and copy their output: vgs lvs fdisk -l lsblk -t ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 10:58:57 -0700, Mike Wright wrote: > The file is probably sparse, i.e. it is only as large as the usage > which, at the moment, is 174M. Enough snapshots and it could eventually > grow to a max of 1.8T. OK, even I should know, but if I do I don't remember: how, other than by df -h, do I get a machine to tell me its capacity? If the file *could* grow to 1.8T, is that some kind of software limit, or does it imply that the machine actually has at least 1.8T? -- Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: What is backup_vg-backup? Can it be so big?
On 6/7/20 10:42 AM, Beartooth wrote: On a System76 PC several years old, running F32 fully updated (not Ubuntu), I see the following: $ df -h FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on devtmpfs 7.8G 0 7.8G 0% /dev tmpfs 7.8G 0 7.8G 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 7.8G 1.6M 7.8G 1% /run /dev/mapper/fedora-root49G 16G 31G 35% / tmpfs 7.8G 60K 7.8G 1% /tmp /dev/mapper/fedora-home52G 20G 30G 40% /home /dev/sda1 976M 252M 658M 28% /boot /dev/mapper/backup_vg-backup 1.8T 174M 1.7T 1% /.snapshots tmpfs 1.6G 60K 1.6G 1% /run/user/65536 bash-5.0$ Going into the GUI, right clicking and choosing priorities, I see: Link to block device (inode/blockdevice) So I searched inode, but got over my head in no time. Searching snapshot was a little more comprehensible, but using what I think it told me would demand knowledge I lack. I also tried blockdevice, and that *really* got me into a jungle of jargon. I'm wondering whether *any* file on an old machine could be so big as a terabyte, let alone two. If not, what if anything is df -h telling me about this machine as compared to my others? Anything about speed or storage? The file is probably sparse, i.e. it is only as large as the usage which, at the moment, is 174M. Enough snapshots and it could eventually grow to a max of 1.8T. I also have a still broader question. Instead of keeping each machine, as heretofore, as nearly in sync with the others, actually as close a copy of the others, might it be reasonably safe to keep one for constant use and the others as supporting specialists of some sort. Advice? Comments? ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
