Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Michael Schwendt
On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:12:57 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:

> I mean, what if [Journal] means
> "Forget everything, we're starting journal options now"? The last
> thing you'd want to do is put in a [Journal] line in that case and
> forget all the previous settings :-).

That's an odd thought in my opinion, since [Foo] typically is an .INI-style
section specification that doesn't reset any variable=value assignments
within that named section.
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 5:59 PM Jon LaBadie  wrote:

> On Thu, May 09, 2024 at 03:45:54PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> >On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 3:14 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 9 May 2024 19:15:20 +0100
> >> Barry Scott wrote:
> >>
> >> >All options are configured in the [Journal] section:
> >>
> >> Yep, but it is concatenating all the different bits and pieces
> >> it picks up from the journald.conf.d directory, so is the [Journal]
> >> in the default file enough to imply [Journal] for all the pieces
> >> it picks up from the directory? I mean, what if [Journal] means
> >> "Forget everything, we're starting journal options now"? The last
> >> thing you'd want to do is put in a [Journal] line in that case and
> >> forget all the previous settings :-).
> >>
> >> [Train of thought like this is what happens when a computer programmer
> >> tries to read an ambiguous manual].
> >>
> >
> >When it comes to configuration using the .d/ directories, I believe it is
> a
> >"sticky" scheme. The first time the option is set, it becomes sticky and
> it
> >is not overridden later. That's why applications read .d/ configuration
> >files first (and in a deterministic order, like 10-*.conf before 50-*.conf
> >files), and then fallback to the package's or maintainer's configuration
> >options for missing options.
>
> "journald.conf(5) describes it differently.
> Below I've broken up a single paragraph from that manpage.
>
>In addition to the "main" configuration file, drop-in configuration
> snippets
>are read from /usr/lib/systemd/*.conf.d/,
> /usr/local/lib/systemd/*.conf.d/,
>and /etc/systemd/*.conf.d/.  Those drop-ins have higher precedence and
>override the main configuration file.
>
> So even if a line in the "main" config file is uncommentted, it value is
> not "sticky".
>
>Files in the *.conf.d/ configuration subdirectories are sorted by their
>filename in lexicographic order, regardless of in which of the
>subdirectories they reside.
>
> So with multiple drop-in config files, their name, not directory
> location, determines the order read.
>
>When multiple files specify the same option, for options which accept
>just a single value, the entry in the file sorted last takes precedence,
>
> So no option setting is sticky, it is last setting read rules.
>
>and for options which accept a list of values, entries are collected
>as they occur in the sorted files.
>

My bad, I stand corrected.

Jeff
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Jon LaBadie

On Thu, May 09, 2024 at 03:45:54PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 3:14 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:


On Thu, 9 May 2024 19:15:20 +0100
Barry Scott wrote:

>All options are configured in the [Journal] section:

Yep, but it is concatenating all the different bits and pieces
it picks up from the journald.conf.d directory, so is the [Journal]
in the default file enough to imply [Journal] for all the pieces
it picks up from the directory? I mean, what if [Journal] means
"Forget everything, we're starting journal options now"? The last
thing you'd want to do is put in a [Journal] line in that case and
forget all the previous settings :-).

[Train of thought like this is what happens when a computer programmer
tries to read an ambiguous manual].



When it comes to configuration using the .d/ directories, I believe it is a
"sticky" scheme. The first time the option is set, it becomes sticky and it
is not overridden later. That's why applications read .d/ configuration
files first (and in a deterministic order, like 10-*.conf before 50-*.conf
files), and then fallback to the package's or maintainer's configuration
options for missing options.


"journald.conf(5) describes it differently.
Below I've broken up a single paragraph from that manpage.

  In addition to the "main" configuration file, drop-in configuration snippets
  are read from /usr/lib/systemd/*.conf.d/, /usr/local/lib/systemd/*.conf.d/,
  and /etc/systemd/*.conf.d/.  Those drop-ins have higher precedence and
  override the main configuration file.

So even if a line in the "main" config file is uncommentted, it value is 
not "sticky".


  Files in the *.conf.d/ configuration subdirectories are sorted by their
  filename in lexicographic order, regardless of in which of the
  subdirectories they reside.

So with multiple drop-in config files, their name, not directory 
location, determines the order read.


  When multiple files specify the same option, for options which accept
  just a single value, the entry in the file sorted last takes precedence,

So no option setting is sticky, it is last setting read rules.

  and for options which accept a list of values, entries are collected
  as they occur in the sorted files.

HTH,

--
Jon H. LaBadie  jo...@jgcomp.com
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 3:14 PM Tom Horsley  wrote:

> On Thu, 9 May 2024 19:15:20 +0100
> Barry Scott wrote:
>
> >All options are configured in the [Journal] section:
>
> Yep, but it is concatenating all the different bits and pieces
> it picks up from the journald.conf.d directory, so is the [Journal]
> in the default file enough to imply [Journal] for all the pieces
> it picks up from the directory? I mean, what if [Journal] means
> "Forget everything, we're starting journal options now"? The last
> thing you'd want to do is put in a [Journal] line in that case and
> forget all the previous settings :-).
>
> [Train of thought like this is what happens when a computer programmer
> tries to read an ambiguous manual].
>

When it comes to configuration using the .d/ directories, I believe it is a
"sticky" scheme. The first time the option is set, it becomes sticky and it
is not overridden later. That's why applications read .d/ configuration
files first (and in a deterministic order, like 10-*.conf before 50-*.conf
files), and then fallback to the package's or maintainer's configuration
options for missing options.

Jeff
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Tom Horsley
On Thu, 9 May 2024 19:15:20 +0100
Barry Scott wrote:

>All options are configured in the [Journal] section:

Yep, but it is concatenating all the different bits and pieces
it picks up from the journald.conf.d directory, so is the [Journal]
in the default file enough to imply [Journal] for all the pieces
it picks up from the directory? I mean, what if [Journal] means
"Forget everything, we're starting journal options now"? The last
thing you'd want to do is put in a [Journal] line in that case and
forget all the previous settings :-).

[Train of thought like this is what happens when a computer programmer
tries to read an ambiguous manual].
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Barry Scott


> On 9 May 2024, at 14:56, Tom Horsley  wrote:
> 
>> Yes. See man journald.conf
> 
> I did see the man page, it wasn't clear (not to me, anyway).


From the man page:

OPTIONS
   All options are configured in the [Journal] section:

   Storage=
   Controls where to store journal data. One of "volatile",
...

Barry

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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Felix Miata
Tom Horsley composed on 2024-05-09 09:15 (UTC-0400):

> On Tue, 7 May 2024 14:19:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

>>> Where are journal settings configured these days?  

>> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ for overrides & customizations.

> So if I put a .conf file in that directory, does it also need
> to have the [Journal] line at the beginning? Like so:

> [Journal]
> option=setting
> option=setting...

I think this is what you want:

man systemd.syntax
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Tom Horsley
On Thu, 9 May 2024 14:22:19 +0100
Barry Scott wrote:

> Yes. See man journald.conf

I did see the man page, it wasn't clear (not to me, anyway).
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Barry Scott


> On 9 May 2024, at 14:15, Tom Horsley  wrote:
> 
> So if I put a .conf file in that directory, does it also need
> to have the [Journal] line at the beginning? Like so:
> 
> [Journal]
> option=setting
> option=setting...

Yes. See man journald.conf

Barry

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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-09 Thread Tom Horsley
On Tue, 7 May 2024 14:19:46 -0400
Felix Miata wrote:

> > Where are journal settings configured these days?  
> 
> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ for overrides & customizations.

So if I put a .conf file in that directory, does it also need
to have the [Journal] line at the beginning? Like so:

[Journal]
option=setting
option=setting...
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-08 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Wed, 2024-05-08 at 12:25 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Wed, 08 May 2024 10:49:12 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > As stated earlier, it hasn't been modified by me.
> > 
> > > What is in your /etc/systemd/journald.conf file compared with the
> > > default in /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf?  
> > 
> > They are identical except for comments:
> 
> That proves my point. The file contents don't come from within the
> systemd
> package where the file is just a %ghost.

Then it must have come from some previous iteration of the package. I
note that it has been there a long time:

$ ls -l --time=creation /etc/systemd/journald.conf 
/usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf
-rw-r--r--. 1 root root 1282 Jul 16  2022 /etc/systemd/journald.conf
-rw-r--r--. 1 root root 1406 Apr 24 12:36 /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf


poc
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-08 Thread Michael Schwendt
On Wed, 08 May 2024 10:49:12 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> As stated earlier, it hasn't been modified by me.
> 
> > What is in your /etc/systemd/journald.conf file compared with the
> > default in /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf?  
> 
> They are identical except for comments:

That proves my point. The file contents don't come from within the systemd
package where the file is just a %ghost.
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-08 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Wed, 2024-05-08 at 01:12 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Tue, 07 May 2024 23:22:53 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > In that case I assume it was put there under F39. Seems very odd
> > that
> > the upgrade just kept it in addition to the one in
> > /usr/lib/systemd.
> 
> Depends.
> 
> You cannot rely on just "rpm -qf ..." since that only queries the
> package
> file list regardless of what the file contents are. And that includes
> %ghost files which possibly don't exist. Also, it is not only a
> %ghost
> file but also still marked as %config, and if it has been modified by
> you,
> RPM package upgrades would handle it like a config file.

As stated earlier, it hasn't been modified by me.

> What is in your /etc/systemd/journald.conf file compared with the
> default in /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf?

They are identical except for comments:

$ diff /etc/systemd/journald.conf /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf
9,11c9,13
< # should be created by either modifying this file, or by creating "drop-ins" 
in
< # the journald.conf.d/ subdirectory. The latter is generally recommended.
< # Defaults can be restored by simply deleting this file and all drop-ins.
---
> # should be created by either modifying this file (or a copy of it placed in
> # /etc/ if the original file is shipped in /usr/), or by creating "drop-ins" 
> in
> # the /etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ directory. The latter is generally
> # recommended. Defaults can be restored by simply deleting the main
> # configuration file and all drop-ins located in /etc/.

poc
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Tue, May 7, 2024 at 2:20 PM Felix Miata  wrote:

> Tom Horsley composed on 2024-05-07 14:09 (UTC-0400):
>
> > I have a bunch of journal setting I normally change in
> > /etc/systemd/journald.conf.
>
> > In fedora40 there doesn't appear to be such a file.
>
> > Where are journal settings configured these days?
>
> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ for overrides & customizations.
>

++, this.

Then, when you perform a system-upgrade and run `rpmconf -a`, you will
always get the maintainer's version of the file, and you will always
override to suit your taste.

Jeff
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Michael Schwendt
On Tue, 07 May 2024 23:22:53 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> In that case I assume it was put there under F39. Seems very odd that
> the upgrade just kept it in addition to the one in /usr/lib/systemd.

Depends.

You cannot rely on just "rpm -qf ..." since that only queries the package
file list regardless of what the file contents are. And that includes
%ghost files which possibly don't exist. Also, it is not only a %ghost
file but also still marked as %config, and if it has been modified by you,
RPM package upgrades would handle it like a config file.

What is in your /etc/systemd/journald.conf file compared with the
default in /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf?
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Tue, 2024-05-07 at 23:29 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Tue, 07 May 2024 21:38:47 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > It's there on my system, updated from F39:
> > 
> > # rpm -qf /etc/systemd/journald.conf
> > systemd-255.4-1.fc40.x86_64
> 
> No, it's not:
> 
> $ rpm -qcv systemd|grep conf$
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root    0 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root   21 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/dnf/protected.d/systemd.conf
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root    0 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/locale.conf
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root    0 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/systemd/journald.conf
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root    0 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/systemd/logind.conf
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root    0 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/systemd/system.conf
> -rw-r--r--    1 root root    0 Mar  1 01:00
> /etc/systemd/user.conf
> 
> It's a %ghost config file, which means it is marked as belonging to
> the
> package (even if it doesn't exist in the directory), so it can be
> handled
> appropriately on package removal/updates.
> 
> The default file has been moved to /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf.

In that case I assume it was put there under F39. Seems very odd that
the upgrade just kept it in addition to the one in /usr/lib/systemd.

poc


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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Felix Miata
Tom Horsley composed on 2024-05-07 14:34 (UTC-0400):

> On Tue, 7 May 2024 14:19:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

>> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ for overrides & customizations.

> A directory which also doesn't exist :-).

Like other /etc/**.conf.d/ directories in a systemd environment, it's optional, 
a
place to override things one isn't happy with in the /usr/ tree.

# cat /etc/systemd/journal.conf.d/local.conf
[Journal]
Storage=persistent
SystemMaxFiles=10
RuntimeMaxFiles=12
ForwardToConsole=yes
TTYPath=/dev/tty10
Audit=no
#
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Michael Schwendt
On Tue, 07 May 2024 21:38:47 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> It's there on my system, updated from F39:
> 
> # rpm -qf /etc/systemd/journald.conf
> systemd-255.4-1.fc40.x86_64

No, it's not:

$ rpm -qcv systemd|grep conf$
-rw-r--r--1 root root0 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root   21 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/dnf/protected.d/systemd.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root0 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/locale.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root0 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/systemd/journald.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root0 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/systemd/logind.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root0 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/systemd/system.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root0 Mar  1 01:00 
/etc/systemd/user.conf

It's a %ghost config file, which means it is marked as belonging to the
package (even if it doesn't exist in the directory), so it can be handled
appropriately on package removal/updates.

The default file has been moved to /usr/lib/systemd/journald.conf.
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Tue, 2024-05-07 at 16:54 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Tue, 07 May 2024 21:38:47 +0100
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > # rpm -qf /etc/systemd/journald.conf
> > systemd-255.4-1.fc40.x86_64
> > 
> > Try running 'rpm -V systemd'.
> 
> Everything seems normal, I think they just did some kind of voodoo
> to the rpm so it owns the file if it exists, but it doesn't actually
> install a file because all the defaults are built in. I guess I just
> have to create it myself if I want to change defaults.
> --

I'm 100% sure I've never touched this file, so it must have came as
part of the package.

poc
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Tom Horsley
On Tue, 07 May 2024 21:38:47 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> # rpm -qf /etc/systemd/journald.conf
> systemd-255.4-1.fc40.x86_64
> 
> Try running 'rpm -V systemd'.

Everything seems normal, I think they just did some kind of voodoo
to the rpm so it owns the file if it exists, but it doesn't actually
install a file because all the defaults are built in. I guess I just
have to create it myself if I want to change defaults.
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Tue, 2024-05-07 at 14:09 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> I have a bunch of journal setting I normally change in
> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.
> 
> In fedora40 there doesn't appear to be such a file.

It's there on my system, updated from F39:

# rpm -qf /etc/systemd/journald.conf
systemd-255.4-1.fc40.x86_64

Try running 'rpm -V systemd'.

poc
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Tom Horsley
On Tue, 7 May 2024 14:19:46 -0400
Felix Miata wrote:

> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ for overrides & customizations.

A directory which also doesn't exist :-).
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Felix Miata
Tom Horsley composed on 2024-05-07 14:09 (UTC-0400):

> I have a bunch of journal setting I normally change in
> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.

> In fedora40 there doesn't appear to be such a file.

> Where are journal settings configured these days?

/etc/systemd/journald.conf.d/ for overrides & customizations.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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Re: Who moved my journald.conf?

2024-05-07 Thread Tom Horsley
On Tue, 7 May 2024 14:09:57 -0400
Tom Horsley wrote:

> I have a bunch of journal setting I normally change in
> /etc/systemd/journald.conf.
> 
> In fedora40 there doesn't appear to be such a file.

It gets more confusing. If I do (in fedora 40) a

rpm -q --list systemd

/etc/systemd/journald.conf

Appears in the list of files owned by systemd, but
if I look in /etc/systemd on a fedora 40 image installed
directly from the workstation dvd image, that file
doesn't exist.

Will it pay attention to the settings if I create it?
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