Re: fc29 beta

2018-10-02 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Mon, 2018-10-01 at 18:51 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> On 10/1/18 8:31 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I think the meaning is fairly clear, but I'm not trying to make an
> > issue of it. I've explained why I thought the OPs post was out of
> > place, and people can make up their own minds.
> 
> 
> Hi Pat,
> 
> I do not doubt either your accuracy or your sincerity.
> I just suggest maybe a tweak in the rules is in order.

I've no idea how to change the guidelines (they aren't rules) but feel
free to propose new wording, maybe to the list moderators.

poc
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-10-01 Thread ToddAndMargo

On 10/1/18 8:31 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

I think the meaning is fairly clear, but I'm not trying to make an
issue of it. I've explained why I thought the OPs post was out of
place, and people can make up their own minds.



Hi Pat,

I do not doubt either your accuracy or your sincerity.
I just suggest maybe a tweak in the rules is in order.

I have to post on usenet groups too.  It is very nice
to have this group and not have to deal with the
antisocial behavior that required an extensive
kill file.  So I understand why you want to keep things
on track with the rules.

:-)

-T
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-10-01 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Mon, 2018-10-01 at 15:00 +0100, John Pilkington wrote:
> On 01/10/18 11:07, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sun, 2018-09-30 at 17:06 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > > On 9/29/18 12:55 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > 
> > > > F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
> > > > for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
> > > > If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
> > > > to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
> > > > and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
> > > > frowned on.
> > > 
> > > Hi Patrick,
> > > 
> > > Now this is a catch 22.
> > > 
> > > All of the commands I showed were Fedora 28 commands,
> > > so it was within scope of a released product.
> > > 
> > > The result was an available product in testing but
> > > not on the released list.
> > > 
> > > So, I would have been in scope if I had not had
> > > mentioned the result.
> > > 
> > > And, if I had posted on the testing group, I would
> > > have been told that code for a released version
> > > was not in scope.
> > 
> > I strongly doubt that. Helping those interested in upgrading to the
> > next version is one of the things the Test list is used for, and anyone
> > doing the upgrade should be on that list as a matter of course.
> > 
> > > Catch 22
> > > 
> > > When tips like I posted that are offered in friendship
> > > to help other that are constantly helping me cuts across
> > > two mail lists, would you please consider a tiny tweak
> > > to your guidelines?
> > 
> > First of all, they aren't *my* guidelines. I didn't write them. I'm not
> > a moderator or admin for this list (or for the Test list).
> > 
> > Your contention that all the commands you recommend are for F28 seems
> > to me irrelevant. The entire purpose of your post is to give
> > instructions on upgrading to F29, which is so far unreleased. There's
> > no Catch-22.
> > 
> > All of this is, needless to say, merely my opinion.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > poc
> 
> 
> I've just consulted google, as a new user might;  obvious hits told me 
> how to post and how to frame useful questions, but nothing about list 
> guidelines in the sense being used here.
> 
> The closest approach to what I wanted came up here: - I'm seeing a 
> hyperkitty page.
> 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/
> 
> where the descriptions are very brief - and don't rule out this post ;-)

A Google search for "fedora user list" and "fedora test list" give
these brief descriptions at:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users.lists.fedoraproject.org/

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/test.lists.fedoraproject.org/

I think the meaning is fairly clear, but I'm not trying to make an
issue of it. I've explained why I thought the OPs post was out of
place, and people can make up their own minds.

poc
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-10-01 Thread Ed Greshko
On 10/1/18 10:00 PM, John Pilkington wrote:
> where the descriptions are very brief - and don't rule out this post

Isn't it odd that more bandwidth and keystrokes are being utilized to argue 
about the
"correctness" of the original post than discussing the results of the "test".

Kind of makes you think the best thing would have been to just ignore the post, 
if
you didn't think it appropriate, to being with.  Or, just send a private message
to the OP. 

-- 
Cardinal Rule of Presentations: "Tell them what you are going to tell them, tell
them, then tell them what you told them."



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Re: fc29 beta

2018-10-01 Thread John Pilkington

On 01/10/18 11:07, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Sun, 2018-09-30 at 17:06 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:

On 9/29/18 12:55 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:


F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
frowned on.


Hi Patrick,

Now this is a catch 22.

All of the commands I showed were Fedora 28 commands,
so it was within scope of a released product.

The result was an available product in testing but
not on the released list.

So, I would have been in scope if I had not had
mentioned the result.

And, if I had posted on the testing group, I would
have been told that code for a released version
was not in scope.


I strongly doubt that. Helping those interested in upgrading to the
next version is one of the things the Test list is used for, and anyone
doing the upgrade should be on that list as a matter of course.


Catch 22

When tips like I posted that are offered in friendship
to help other that are constantly helping me cuts across
two mail lists, would you please consider a tiny tweak
to your guidelines?


First of all, they aren't *my* guidelines. I didn't write them. I'm not
a moderator or admin for this list (or for the Test list).

Your contention that all the commands you recommend are for F28 seems
to me irrelevant. The entire purpose of your post is to give
instructions on upgrading to F29, which is so far unreleased. There's
no Catch-22.

All of this is, needless to say, merely my opinion.

Cheers

poc



I've just consulted google, as a new user might;  obvious hits told me 
how to post and how to frame useful questions, but nothing about list 
guidelines in the sense being used here.


The closest approach to what I wanted came up here: - I'm seeing a 
hyperkitty page.


https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/

where the descriptions are very brief - and don't rule out this post ;-)

John
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-10-01 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Sun, 2018-09-30 at 17:06 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> On 9/29/18 12:55 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
> > for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
> > If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
> > to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
> > and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
> > frowned on.
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Now this is a catch 22.
> 
> All of the commands I showed were Fedora 28 commands,
> so it was within scope of a released product.
> 
> The result was an available product in testing but
> not on the released list.
> 
> So, I would have been in scope if I had not had
> mentioned the result.
> 
> And, if I had posted on the testing group, I would
> have been told that code for a released version
> was not in scope.

I strongly doubt that. Helping those interested in upgrading to the
next version is one of the things the Test list is used for, and anyone
doing the upgrade should be on that list as a matter of course.

> Catch 22
> 
> When tips like I posted that are offered in friendship
> to help other that are constantly helping me cuts across
> two mail lists, would you please consider a tiny tweak
> to your guidelines?

First of all, they aren't *my* guidelines. I didn't write them. I'm not
a moderator or admin for this list (or for the Test list).

Your contention that all the commands you recommend are for F28 seems
to me irrelevant. The entire purpose of your post is to give
instructions on upgrading to F29, which is so far unreleased. There's
no Catch-22.

All of this is, needless to say, merely my opinion.

Cheers

poc
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-30 Thread ToddAndMargo

On 9/29/18 12:55 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:


F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
frowned on.


Hi Patrick,

Now this is a catch 22.

All of the commands I showed were Fedora 28 commands,
so it was within scope of a released product.

The result was an available product in testing but
not on the released list.

So, I would have been in scope if I had not had
mentioned the result.

And, if I had posted on the testing group, I would
have been told that code for a released version
was not in scope.

Catch 22

When tips like I posted that are offered in friendship
to help other that are constantly helping me cuts across
two mail lists, would you please consider a tiny tweak
to your guidelines?

Many thanks,
-T

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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-29 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Sat, 2018-09-29 at 11:26 +0200, Andras Simon wrote:
> > I think this is too restrictive,  The procedures quoted are for users of
> > FC28.
> 
> ... who want to test the not yet released F29, and for whom there is
> the Test list.

+1

poc
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-29 Thread Andras Simon
2018-09-29 10:18 GMT+02:00, John Pilkington :
> On 29/09/18 08:55, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>> On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 15:46 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>> On 9/28/18 3:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
 On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
> pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
>
> -T
>
> Here are my upgrade notes;
>
>
> FC 28 -->> FC 29:
>
> # rpm --rebuilddb
> # rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
>  if anything is too new, do a
># dnf downgrade offender(s)
>
> # dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
> # dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
> # dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
> --best
> # dnf clean packages <-- optional
> # dnf system-upgrade reboot

 Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.

 poc
>>>
>>> Are you sure?  I was just giving general information to the
>>> community as a whole.  I haven't tested anything yet
>>
>> F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
>> for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
>> If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
>> to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
>> and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
>> frowned on.
>>
>> poc
>
> I think this is too restrictive,  The procedures quoted are for users of
> FC28.

... who want to test the not yet released F29, and for whom there is
the Test list.

But anyway, you are free to create a fedora list with less stringent
restrictions on what counts as on topic.

Andras
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-29 Thread John Pilkington

On 29/09/18 08:55, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 15:46 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:

On 9/28/18 3:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:

Hi All,

I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

-T

Here are my upgrade notes;


FC 28 -->> FC 29:

# rpm --rebuilddb
# rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
 if anything is too new, do a
   # dnf downgrade offender(s)

# dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
# dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
# dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
--best
# dnf clean packages <-- optional
# dnf system-upgrade reboot


Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.

poc


Are you sure?  I was just giving general information to the
community as a whole.  I haven't tested anything yet


F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
frowned on.

poc


I think this is too restrictive,  The procedures quoted are for users of 
FC28.


John P

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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-29 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 15:46 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> On 9/28/18 3:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > 
> > > I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
> > > pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
> > > 
> > > -T
> > > 
> > > Here are my upgrade notes;
> > > 
> > > 
> > > FC 28 -->> FC 29:
> > > 
> > > # rpm --rebuilddb
> > > # rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
> > > if anything is too new, do a
> > >   # dnf downgrade offender(s)
> > > 
> > > # dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
> > > # dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
> > > # dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
> > > --best
> > > # dnf clean packages <-- optional
> > > # dnf system-upgrade reboot
> > 
> > Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.
> > 
> > poc
> 
> Are you sure?  I was just giving general information to the
> community as a whole.  I haven't tested anything yet

F29 is not released. The guidelines for the User list state that it's
for discussion of the released version of Fedora (currently 28 and 27).
If you have comments on the future version the Test list is the place
to post them. Many people on the Test list do not read the User list
and won't see your comments, and cross-posting to multiple lists is
frowned on.

poc
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread Ed Greshko
On 9/29/18 8:04 AM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> My main reason for posting was to show the update process, in
> case anyone else wanted to  give it a try 

Oh, that's all?  Not that it worked well?

Then maybe just post a link to the "official" process?  It does go into greater
detail about what to do and why.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DNF_system_upgrade


-- 
Cardinal Rule of Presentations: "Tell them what you are going to tell them, tell
them, then tell them what you told them."



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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread ToddAndMargo

On 9/28/18 4:46 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 9/29/18 6:46 AM, ToddAndMargo wrote:

On 9/28/18 3:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:

Hi All,

I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

-T

Here are my upgrade notes;


FC 28 -->> FC 29:

# rpm --rebuilddb
# rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
     if anything is too new, do a
   # dnf downgrade offender(s)

# dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
# dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
# dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
--best
# dnf clean packages <-- optional
# dnf system-upgrade reboot


Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.

poc


Are you sure?  I was just giving general information to the
community as a whole.  I haven't tested anything yet



The beta is out and your information is informative and maybe it will put some 
at
ease about the soon upcoming upgrade process.
Of course we know there will be a portion of the population that will run into
difficulties.  :-(

You should, I agree, also share your experience with the test list.  Some on 
that
list may not be here and they may be
most interested in the testing of the upgrade process.


My main reason for posting was to show the update process, in
case anyone else wanted to  give it a try



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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread Ed Greshko
On 9/29/18 6:46 AM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> On 9/28/18 3:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>> On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
>>> pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
>>>
>>> -T
>>>
>>> Here are my upgrade notes;
>>>
>>>
>>> FC 28 -->> FC 29:
>>>
>>> # rpm --rebuilddb
>>> # rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
>>>     if anything is too new, do a
>>>   # dnf downgrade offender(s)
>>>
>>> # dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
>>> # dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
>>> # dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
>>> --best
>>> # dnf clean packages <-- optional
>>> # dnf system-upgrade reboot
>>
>> Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.
>>
>> poc
>
> Are you sure?  I was just giving general information to the
> community as a whole.  I haven't tested anything yet
>

The beta is out and your information is informative and maybe it will put some 
at
ease about the soon upcoming upgrade process.
Of course we know there will be a portion of the population that will run into
difficulties.  :-(

You should, I agree, also share your experience with the test list.  Some on 
that
list may not be here and they may be
most interested in the testing of the upgrade process.

-- 
Cardinal Rule of Presentations: "Tell them what you are going to tell them, tell
them, then tell them what you told them."



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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread Ken Smith
Thanks for the information,

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 2:48 PM ToddAndMargo  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
> pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
>
> -T
>
> Here are my upgrade notes;
>
>
> FC 28 -->> FC 29:
>
> # rpm --rebuilddb
> # rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
>if anything is too new, do a
>  # dnf downgrade offender(s)
>
> # dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
> # dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
> # dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
> --best
> # dnf clean packages <-- optional
> # dnf system-upgrade reboot
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread ToddAndMargo

On 9/28/18 3:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:

Hi All,

I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

-T

Here are my upgrade notes;


FC 28 -->> FC 29:

# rpm --rebuilddb
# rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
if anything is too new, do a
  # dnf downgrade offender(s)

# dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
# dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
# dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
--best
# dnf clean packages <-- optional
# dnf system-upgrade reboot


Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.

poc


Are you sure?  I was just giving general information to the
community as a whole.  I haven't tested anything yet


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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread Ken Smith
Let us know how it goes!

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 2:48 PM ToddAndMargo  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
> pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
>
> -T
>
> Here are my upgrade notes;
>
>
> FC 28 -->> FC 29:
>
> # rpm --rebuilddb
> # rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
>if anything is too new, do a
>  # dnf downgrade offender(s)
>
> # dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
> # dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
> # dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing
> --best
> # dnf clean packages <-- optional
> # dnf system-upgrade reboot
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> users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: fc29 beta

2018-09-28 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Fri, 2018-09-28 at 11:48 -0700, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I just upgraded one of my machines to FC29 Beta.  Looks
> pretty.  Haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
> 
> -T
> 
> Here are my upgrade notes;
> 
> 
> FC 28 -->> FC 29:
> 
> # rpm --rebuilddb
> # rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
>if anything is too new, do a
>  # dnf downgrade offender(s)
> 
> # dnf --enablerepo=* update --refresh
> # dnf install python3-dnf-plugin-system-upgrade
> # dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=29 --allowerasing 
> --best
> # dnf clean packages <-- optional
> # dnf system-upgrade reboot

Wrong list. The Fedora Test list is the appropriate place.

poc
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