Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2016-07-26 at 17:17 -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 01:09:55PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:23 PM, George N. White III  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Where I work, there is no wifi but iMacs are purchased with
> > > bluetooth mouse and keyboard.  With a bunch of systems in a cubicle farm,
> > > bluetooth is not reliable, so users switch to USB mouse and keyboard.
> > 
> > Wired keyboard is fine, it's rather stationary. But having reliably
> > used an Apple Magicmouse on macOS for years, there is no way I'd ever
> > go back to a wired mouse. I'd go so far as to use Windows if the only
> > other alternative was to go to a wired mouse.
> 
> Look into keyboard and mouse wireless dongles that are not bt.
> My desktop tower is pretty far behind me.  I use a Logitech
> kbd  They use a single, tiny usb dongle for both.  It
> was too great a distance, so I added a usb extender cable
> to get the dongle closer.  Works great.

Same here, however I'm pretty sure these things actually are BT under
the hood. I have a Microsoft kb/mouse combo with dongle and nothing on
the labelling or box mentions BT anywhere, but under "lsusb" I see "Bus
001 Device 003: ID 045e:0745 Microsoft Corp. Nano Transceiver v1.0 for
Bluetooth". I use the kb all the time, but the mouse is kept handy for
when I need to turn on BT for the other mouse! It acts exactly like a
USB wired mouse and *never* fails to connect. (I don't like the scroll
wheel, which is why I use the other one for normal work).

poc
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Rick Stevens]

On 07/26/2016 02:17 PM, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 01:09:55PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:23 PM, George N. White III  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Where I work, there is no wifi but iMacs are purchased with
>>> bluetooth mouse and keyboard.  With a bunch of systems in a cubicle farm,
>>> bluetooth is not reliable, so users switch to USB mouse and keyboard.
>>
>> Wired keyboard is fine, it's rather stationary. But having reliably
>> used an Apple Magicmouse on macOS for years, there is no way I'd ever
>> go back to a wired mouse. I'd go so far as to use Windows if the only
>> other alternative was to go to a wired mouse.
> 
> Look into keyboard and mouse wireless dongles that are not bt.
> My desktop tower is pretty far behind me.  I use a Logitech
> kbd  They use a single, tiny usb dongle for both.  It
> was too great a distance, so I added a usb extender cable
> to get the dongle closer.  Works great.

You may still have problems with BT. The wireless keyboard/mouse still
use RF energy in the 2.4GHz ISM band like bluetooth and 802.11. I'm not
saying you will have problems, but you might.
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Jon LaBadie]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 01:09:55PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:23 PM, George N. White III  
> wrote:
> 
> > Where I work, there is no wifi but iMacs are purchased with
> > bluetooth mouse and keyboard.  With a bunch of systems in a cubicle farm,
> > bluetooth is not reliable, so users switch to USB mouse and keyboard.
> 
> Wired keyboard is fine, it's rather stationary. But having reliably
> used an Apple Magicmouse on macOS for years, there is no way I'd ever
> go back to a wired mouse. I'd go so far as to use Windows if the only
> other alternative was to go to a wired mouse.

Look into keyboard and mouse wireless dongles that are not bt.
My desktop tower is pretty far behind me.  I use a Logitech
kbd  They use a single, tiny usb dongle for both.  It
was too great a distance, so I added a usb extender cable
to get the dongle closer.  Works great.

Jon
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Greg Woods]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Chris Murphy 
wrote:

> Wired ethernet ports are effectively deprecated on any modern laptop.


I don't know if I'd go that far. I agree many public or semi-public places
assume that the laptops and mobile devices will have WiFi, and it would be
hard to find a modern laptop that did NOT have a WiFi interface, but there
is still a use for wired ethernet, primarily speed. I have laptops at home,
and for normal use it's OK to just use WiFi. But I do plug in for two use
cases: 1) Backups and 2) Video viewing. For backups in particular, it takes
about 5 times longer to back up my laptop over WiFi than over a gigabit
wired link. In *theory* WiFi links can be very fast, but in practice they
almost never are anywhere close to gigabit speeds.

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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Chris Murphy]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:23 PM, George N. White III  wrote:

> With a laptop the two most common use-cases are "mobile" where you are
> working unplugged/mobile with the laptops's keyboard and pointing device,
> and
> more stationary situations where you are plugged in to mains and may have
> access to a network jack, so many users won't need wifi and bluetooth at the
> same time.

Wired ethernet ports are effectively deprecated on any modern laptop.
My entire four building complex is wireless only. My parent's condo
building is the same way.


> Where I work, there is no wifi but iMacs are purchased with
> bluetooth mouse and keyboard.  With a bunch of systems in a cubicle farm,
> bluetooth is not reliable, so users switch to USB mouse and keyboard.

Wired keyboard is fine, it's rather stationary. But having reliably
used an Apple Magicmouse on macOS for years, there is no way I'd ever
go back to a wired mouse. I'd go so far as to use Windows if the only
other alternative was to go to a wired mouse.


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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[George N. White III]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Chris Murphy 
wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Rick Stevens 
> wrote:
> > On 07/23/2016 09:00 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Tod Merley  wrote:
> >>> .. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...
> >>
> >> 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331
> >> 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331] (rev 02)
> >> Subsystem: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331]
> >> [...snip...]
> >> Kernel driver in use: bcma-pci-bridge
> >> Kernel modules: bcma
> >>
> >> lspci doesn't list Bluetooth. I'm not sure what driver is being  used,
> >> but I suspect one of these:
> >>
> >> btusb  45056  0
> >> snd_hda_codec_hdmi 45056  1
> >> btrtl  16384  1 btusb
> >> btbcm  16384  1 btusb
> >> btintel16384  1 btusb
> >> bluetooth 491520  36
> bnep,hidp,btbcm,btrtl,btusb,rfcomm,btintel
> >>
> >> It looks like bluetooth module just drags in generic, Intel, Broadcom,
> >> and Realtek device drivers, whether the hardware is present or not.
> >>
> >> I was almost ready to give up on b43/bcma because I don't get even get
> >> 802.11n support with that driver. What I found on Broadcom's site for
> >> Linux is hybrid-v35_64-nodebug-pcoem-6_30_223_271.tar.gz but I haven't
> >> gone down that rabbit hole yet.
> >
> > Try doing googling for this issue. I looked and the bcma driver doesn't
> > have a bluetooth co-exist flag like the iwlwifi does. I was going to
> > suggest making sure that was on, but since I don't see that option it'd
> > be useless.
> >
> > According to Broadcom:
> >
> > Do Bluetooth wireless technology and IEEE 802.11 interfere with each
> other?
> >
> > Bluetooth wireless technology and 802.11b/g both use the 2.4 GHz ISM
> > (Industrial, Scientific, Medical) unlicensed spectrum, and in some
> > configurations can interfere with each other. If the Bluetooth and
> > 802.11b/g antennas are more than 3 meters apart, however, interface in
> > minimal. Co-existence schemes such as adaptive frequency hopping have
> > been implemented to address potential interference issues and Broadcom
> > has introduced its InConcert® coexistence technology, which mitigates
> > interference problems.
> >
> > Hmmm. Apparently not in your case. Sorry.
>
>
> My guess is Apple's drivers for macOS and Windows do this adaptive
> hopping, and the open source drivers do not. Or at least, they can
> still conflict some of the time or in a manner that just causes
> bluetooth devices to get dropped and not recover until the wifi radio
> is turned off.
>

With a laptop the two most common use-cases are "mobile" where you are
working unplugged/mobile with the laptops's keyboard and pointing device,
and
more stationary situations where you are plugged in to mains and may have
access to a network jack, so many users won't need wifi and bluetooth at
the
same time.  Where I work, there is no wifi but iMacs are purchased with
bluetooth mouse and keyboard.  With a bunch of systems in a cubicle farm,
bluetooth is not reliable, so users switch to USB mouse and keyboard.



>
> But there are other problems with the b43 situation where it just
> doesn't get much dev attention anymore, and for Pete's sake I'm stuck
> on 802.11g, not even n is possible with b43.
>
>
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Chris Murphy]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Rick Stevens  wrote:
> On 07/23/2016 09:00 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Tod Merley  wrote:
>>> .. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...
>>
>> 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331
>> 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331] (rev 02)
>> Subsystem: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331]
>> [...snip...]
>> Kernel driver in use: bcma-pci-bridge
>> Kernel modules: bcma
>>
>> lspci doesn't list Bluetooth. I'm not sure what driver is being  used,
>> but I suspect one of these:
>>
>> btusb  45056  0
>> snd_hda_codec_hdmi 45056  1
>> btrtl  16384  1 btusb
>> btbcm  16384  1 btusb
>> btintel16384  1 btusb
>> bluetooth 491520  36 bnep,hidp,btbcm,btrtl,btusb,rfcomm,btintel
>>
>> It looks like bluetooth module just drags in generic, Intel, Broadcom,
>> and Realtek device drivers, whether the hardware is present or not.
>>
>> I was almost ready to give up on b43/bcma because I don't get even get
>> 802.11n support with that driver. What I found on Broadcom's site for
>> Linux is hybrid-v35_64-nodebug-pcoem-6_30_223_271.tar.gz but I haven't
>> gone down that rabbit hole yet.
>
> Try doing googling for this issue. I looked and the bcma driver doesn't
> have a bluetooth co-exist flag like the iwlwifi does. I was going to
> suggest making sure that was on, but since I don't see that option it'd
> be useless.
>
> According to Broadcom:
>
> Do Bluetooth wireless technology and IEEE 802.11 interfere with each other?
>
> Bluetooth wireless technology and 802.11b/g both use the 2.4 GHz ISM
> (Industrial, Scientific, Medical) unlicensed spectrum, and in some
> configurations can interfere with each other. If the Bluetooth and
> 802.11b/g antennas are more than 3 meters apart, however, interface in
> minimal. Co-existence schemes such as adaptive frequency hopping have
> been implemented to address potential interference issues and Broadcom
> has introduced its InConcert® coexistence technology, which mitigates
> interference problems.
>
> Hmmm. Apparently not in your case. Sorry.


My guess is Apple's drivers for macOS and Windows do this adaptive
hopping, and the open source drivers do not. Or at least, they can
still conflict some of the time or in a manner that just causes
bluetooth devices to get dropped and not recover until the wifi radio
is turned off.

But there are other problems with the b43 situation where it just
doesn't get much dev attention anymore, and for Pete's sake I'm stuck
on 802.11g, not even n is possible with b43.


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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 25 July 2016, Rick Stevens sent:
> If the Bluetooth and 802.11b/g antennas are more than 3 meters apart,
> however, interface in minimal. 

Bit hard to do that when the hardware is buried in a laptop, for
instance.  I wonder if anyone's got information on manual configuration
of WiFi to avoid bluetooth issues, might be more flexible approached
from that angle.  Perhaps, simply turning the transmission power down,
if you don't need it full strength.


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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Rick Stevens]

On 07/23/2016 09:00 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Tod Merley  wrote:
>> .. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...
> 
> 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331
> 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331] (rev 02)
> Subsystem: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331]
> [...snip...]
> Kernel driver in use: bcma-pci-bridge
> Kernel modules: bcma
> 
> lspci doesn't list Bluetooth. I'm not sure what driver is being  used,
> but I suspect one of these:
> 
> btusb  45056  0
> snd_hda_codec_hdmi 45056  1
> btrtl  16384  1 btusb
> btbcm  16384  1 btusb
> btintel16384  1 btusb
> bluetooth 491520  36 bnep,hidp,btbcm,btrtl,btusb,rfcomm,btintel
> 
> It looks like bluetooth module just drags in generic, Intel, Broadcom,
> and Realtek device drivers, whether the hardware is present or not.
> 
> I was almost ready to give up on b43/bcma because I don't get even get
> 802.11n support with that driver. What I found on Broadcom's site for
> Linux is hybrid-v35_64-nodebug-pcoem-6_30_223_271.tar.gz but I haven't
> gone down that rabbit hole yet.

Try doing googling for this issue. I looked and the bcma driver doesn't
have a bluetooth co-exist flag like the iwlwifi does. I was going to
suggest making sure that was on, but since I don't see that option it'd
be useless.

According to Broadcom:

Do Bluetooth wireless technology and IEEE 802.11 interfere with each other?

Bluetooth wireless technology and 802.11b/g both use the 2.4 GHz ISM
(Industrial, Scientific, Medical) unlicensed spectrum, and in some
configurations can interfere with each other. If the Bluetooth and
802.11b/g antennas are more than 3 meters apart, however, interface in
minimal. Co-existence schemes such as adaptive frequency hopping have
been implemented to address potential interference issues and Broadcom
has introduced its InConcert® coexistence technology, which mitigates
interference problems.

Hmmm. Apparently not in your case. Sorry.
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 23 July 2016, Chris Murphy sent:
> Thing is, I don't see this same behavior on macOS with the same
> hardware and environment: I don't see the constant
> disconnects/reconnects, and I don't ever have BT problems. 

Looking at a couple of WiFi/bluetooth de-snaggling pages, I was (a)
surprised to learn that the two were in the same RF neighbourhood, that
seems like bad planning, and (b) see that either technology *can* use
some automation to avoid congested channels.  Perhaps your Mac *is*
discovering and avoiding problem frequencies with the bluetooth.

The various other solutions offered won't be do-able by everyone.  

You can't always change the position of wireless and bluetooth devices,
since they're fixed inside the chassis of things, unless you're using a
USB dongle.  But moving the position of everything to change a reception
pattern may be possible, and you might only have to move something an
inch to move it out of a dead zone, or out of somewhere that received
interference.  

Changing USB cables around may help, some are poorly shielded and
radiate interference.  

And if you're prone to external interference (microwave ovens, video
transmitters, cordless phones), you *may* not be able to do anything
about them, certainly not if they're not yours.  Video transmitters
often have a frequency selector switch, I know I have one with the
opposite problem (it's disrupted badly by WiFi).  And maybe moving a
cordless phone base station could change things.


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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Chris Murphy]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Tod Merley  wrote:
> .. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...

03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331
802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331] (rev 02)
Subsystem: Broadcom Corporation BCM4331 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4331]
[...snip...]
Kernel driver in use: bcma-pci-bridge
Kernel modules: bcma

lspci doesn't list Bluetooth. I'm not sure what driver is being  used,
but I suspect one of these:

btusb  45056  0
snd_hda_codec_hdmi 45056  1
btrtl  16384  1 btusb
btbcm  16384  1 btusb
btintel16384  1 btusb
bluetooth 491520  36 bnep,hidp,btbcm,btrtl,btusb,rfcomm,btintel

It looks like bluetooth module just drags in generic, Intel, Broadcom,
and Realtek device drivers, whether the hardware is present or not.

I was almost ready to give up on b43/bcma because I don't get even get
802.11n support with that driver. What I found on Broadcom's site for
Linux is hybrid-v35_64-nodebug-pcoem-6_30_223_271.tar.gz but I haven't
gone down that rabbit hole yet.



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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Chris Murphy]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Rick Stevens  wrote:

> Both bluetooth and wifi use the 2.4GHz frequency band. If you have
> dual-band wifi, try using a frequency in the 5GHz band. Failing that,
> try to get your wifi to use a different channel. That may clear it up.
> This is always going to be an issue.

Unfortunately the local WiFi offers 2.4GHz only. And WDS is involved,
and there's something about either NetworkManager, or the kernel
driver, or the WiFi firmware that causes it to disconnect from the AP
every two minutes exactly, and tries to connect to another one. For
all I know, this constant hunting, seeking, disconnecting,
reconnecting is what's pissing off BT. Thing is, I don't see this same
behavior on macOS with the same hardware and environment: I don't see
the constant disconnects/reconnects, and I don't ever have BT
problems.



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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[jd1008]

On 07/22/2016 02:37 PM, Tod Merley wrote:

.. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:59 AM, jd1008 > wrote:




On 07/22/2016 11:54 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 07/22/2016 10:39 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
> wrote:

Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?

75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or
90% on
Fedora, and never on macOS.



I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using
a Broadcom
dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not
so much for
hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the
dongle and reinsert
it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT
widget Connect button.
I've never been able to figure out what's going on.

There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both
WiFi and
Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never
connect. I
have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom,
Bluetooth
devices connect pretty much instantly.

The disconnect from Bluetooth seems to coincide with the
WiFi radio
disconnecting from on AP MAC address and connecting to a
different AP
MAC address. This laptop does this disconnect/reconnect
routine
exactly every two minutes, always, to the second. I'm
guessing it must
be unique behavior to its WiFi firmware. A nearby Intel
NUC also on
Wireless doesn't behave this way, it goes hours or even
days connected
to one of those two APs.

Both bluetooth and wifi use the 2.4GHz frequency band. If you have
dual-band wifi, try using a frequency in the 5GHz band.
Failing that,
try to get your wifi to use a different channel. That may
clear it up.
This is always going to be an issue.

I have had this issue as well for EVER :)
I simply stopped using BT.


Have no idea. It's been quite a while since I ever used BT.
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Rick Stevens]

On 07/22/2016 01:37 PM, Tod Merley wrote:
> .. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...

Good point. If you're using iwlwifi, you could create or edit an
/etc/modprobe.d/iwlwifi.conf file and add:

options iwlwifi bt_coex_active=0

Then reboot and see if it helps.

> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:59 AM, jd1008  > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/22/2016 11:54 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:
> 
> On 07/22/2016 10:39 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
> > wrote:
> 
> Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?
> 
> 75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or
> 90% on
> Fedora, and never on macOS.
> 
> 
> 
> I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a
> Broadcom
> dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not
> so much for
> hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle
> and reinsert
> it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget
> Connect button.
> I've never been able to figure out what's going on.
> 
> There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both
> WiFi and
> Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never
> connect. I
> have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom, Bluetooth
> devices connect pretty much instantly.
> 
> The disconnect from Bluetooth seems to coincide with the
> WiFi radio
> disconnecting from on AP MAC address and connecting to a
> different AP
> MAC address. This laptop does this disconnect/reconnect routine
> exactly every two minutes, always, to the second. I'm
> guessing it must
> be unique behavior to its WiFi firmware. A nearby Intel NUC
> also on
> Wireless doesn't behave this way, it goes hours or even days
> connected
> to one of those two APs.
> 
> Both bluetooth and wifi use the 2.4GHz frequency band. If you have
> dual-band wifi, try using a frequency in the 5GHz band. Failing
> that,
> try to get your wifi to use a different channel. That may clear
> it up.
> This is always going to be an issue.
> 
> I have had this issue as well for EVER :)
> I simply stopped using BT.
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Tod Merley]

.. so what mods are loaded to handle wifi and bluetooth ...

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:59 AM, jd1008  wrote:

>
>
> On 07/22/2016 11:54 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:
>
>> On 07/22/2016 10:39 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?

>>> 75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or 90% on
>>> Fedora, and never on macOS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a Broadcom
 dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not so much for
 hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle and reinsert
 it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget Connect button.
 I've never been able to figure out what's going on.

>>> There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both WiFi and
>>> Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never connect. I
>>> have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom, Bluetooth
>>> devices connect pretty much instantly.
>>>
>>> The disconnect from Bluetooth seems to coincide with the WiFi radio
>>> disconnecting from on AP MAC address and connecting to a different AP
>>> MAC address. This laptop does this disconnect/reconnect routine
>>> exactly every two minutes, always, to the second. I'm guessing it must
>>> be unique behavior to its WiFi firmware. A nearby Intel NUC also on
>>> Wireless doesn't behave this way, it goes hours or even days connected
>>> to one of those two APs.
>>>
>>> Both bluetooth and wifi use the 2.4GHz frequency band. If you have
>> dual-band wifi, try using a frequency in the 5GHz band. Failing that,
>> try to get your wifi to use a different channel. That may clear it up.
>> This is always going to be an issue.
>>
> I have had this issue as well for EVER :)
> I simply stopped using BT.
>
>
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[jd1008]

On 07/22/2016 11:54 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 07/22/2016 10:39 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:


Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?

75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or 90% on
Fedora, and never on macOS.




I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a Broadcom
dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not so much for
hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle and reinsert
it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget Connect button.
I've never been able to figure out what's going on.

There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both WiFi and
Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never connect. I
have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom, Bluetooth
devices connect pretty much instantly.

The disconnect from Bluetooth seems to coincide with the WiFi radio
disconnecting from on AP MAC address and connecting to a different AP
MAC address. This laptop does this disconnect/reconnect routine
exactly every two minutes, always, to the second. I'm guessing it must
be unique behavior to its WiFi firmware. A nearby Intel NUC also on
Wireless doesn't behave this way, it goes hours or even days connected
to one of those two APs.


Both bluetooth and wifi use the 2.4GHz frequency band. If you have
dual-band wifi, try using a frequency in the 5GHz band. Failing that,
try to get your wifi to use a different channel. That may clear it up.
This is always going to be an issue.

I have had this issue as well for EVER :)
I simply stopped using BT.

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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Rick Stevens]

On 07/22/2016 10:39 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>  wrote:
> 
>> Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?
> 
> 75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or 90% on
> Fedora, and never on macOS.
> 
> 
> 
>> I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a Broadcom
>> dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not so much for
>> hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle and reinsert
>> it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget Connect button.
>> I've never been able to figure out what's going on.
> 
> There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both WiFi and
> Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never connect. I
> have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom, Bluetooth
> devices connect pretty much instantly.
> 
> The disconnect from Bluetooth seems to coincide with the WiFi radio
> disconnecting from on AP MAC address and connecting to a different AP
> MAC address. This laptop does this disconnect/reconnect routine
> exactly every two minutes, always, to the second. I'm guessing it must
> be unique behavior to its WiFi firmware. A nearby Intel NUC also on
> Wireless doesn't behave this way, it goes hours or even days connected
> to one of those two APs.
> 

Both bluetooth and wifi use the 2.4GHz frequency band. If you have
dual-band wifi, try using a frequency in the 5GHz band. Failing that,
try to get your wifi to use a different channel. That may clear it up.
This is always going to be an issue.
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Fri, 2016-07-22 at 11:39 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?
> 
> 75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or 90% on
> Fedora, and never on macOS.

OK

> > 
> > I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a Broadcom
> > dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not so much for
> > hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle and reinsert
> > it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget Connect button.
> > I've never been able to figure out what's going on.
> 
> There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both WiFi and
> Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never connect. I
> have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom, Bluetooth
> devices connect pretty much instantly.

In my case I have a desktop with Ethernet cable and no Wifi, so
probably not related.

poc
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Chris Murphy]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:

> Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse?

75% right now. The problem happens the same whether 15% or 90% on
Fedora, and never on macOS.



> I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a Broadcom
> dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not so much for
> hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle and reinsert
> it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget Connect button.
> I've never been able to figure out what's going on.

There's definitely a conflict. On a clean reboot with both WiFi and
Bluetooth left on at reboot time, the mouse/keyboard never connect. I
have to turn off the WiFi radio itself, and then boom, Bluetooth
devices connect pretty much instantly.

The disconnect from Bluetooth seems to coincide with the WiFi radio
disconnecting from on AP MAC address and connecting to a different AP
MAC address. This laptop does this disconnect/reconnect routine
exactly every two minutes, always, to the second. I'm guessing it must
be unique behavior to its WiFi firmware. A nearby Intel NUC also on
Wireless doesn't behave this way, it goes hours or even days connected
to one of those two APs.

-- 
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Re: WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Fri, 2016-07-22 at 09:19 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> About a dozen times per day, my Bluetooth mouse stops working. I can't
> connect manually in Settings > Bluetooth. If I merely turn off the
> WiFi radio (Settings > Network > Wi-Fi change from On to Off) and then
> click the mouse button, it reconnects and works normally.
> 
> With kernels 4.6 and older this ridiculousness was ridiculously
> tolerated (in that I continue to use Fedora slightly annoyed rather
> than use macOS where this problem does not ever occur with the same
> hardware). But with kernel 4.7rc7 this power cycling of WiFi doesn't
> work anymore, now I have to reboot.
> 
> So the question is, does anyone  have any idea how to get more details
> debugging information on what appears to be a conflict between WiFi
> and Bluetooth? Upstream GNOME bluetooth maintainer says it's a kernel
> bug. But there's no meaningful kernel messages at all while this is
> happening.
> 
> Here's the bug I've filed against the kernel, if anyone has
> suggestions on improving the report that'd be great. Or heck, maybe a
> solution to the problem, that'd be even better.
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136221
> 
> In ancient times, I remember even Apple had problems negotiating WiFi
> and Bluetooth since I guess both are on 2.4GHz and would conflict with
> each other. Maybe the work around is to use the proprietary WiFi
> driver instead of b43.

Wild thought: how good is the battery level in the mouse? back when I
used a Macbook Pro it would sometimes disconnect because of battery
level, then work again for a while after toggling the connection before
doing it again. Might be entirely unrelated of course.

I have occasional blips with my BT mouse in KDE (using a Broadcom
dongle) especially after resuming from suspension (not so much for
hibernation). They fix themselves when I pull the dongle and reinsert
it, or use a second mouse to click on the KDE BT widget Connect button.
I've never been able to figure out what's going on.

poc
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WiFi conflicting with Bluetooth

[Chris Murphy]

Hi,

About a dozen times per day, my Bluetooth mouse stops working. I can't
connect manually in Settings > Bluetooth. If I merely turn off the
WiFi radio (Settings > Network > Wi-Fi change from On to Off) and then
click the mouse button, it reconnects and works normally.

With kernels 4.6 and older this ridiculousness was ridiculously
tolerated (in that I continue to use Fedora slightly annoyed rather
than use macOS where this problem does not ever occur with the same
hardware). But with kernel 4.7rc7 this power cycling of WiFi doesn't
work anymore, now I have to reboot.

So the question is, does anyone  have any idea how to get more details
debugging information on what appears to be a conflict between WiFi
and Bluetooth? Upstream GNOME bluetooth maintainer says it's a kernel
bug. But there's no meaningful kernel messages at all while this is
happening.

Here's the bug I've filed against the kernel, if anyone has
suggestions on improving the report that'd be great. Or heck, maybe a
solution to the problem, that'd be even better.
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136221

In ancient times, I remember even Apple had problems negotiating WiFi
and Bluetooth since I guess both are on 2.4GHz and would conflict with
each other. Maybe the work around is to use the proprietary WiFi
driver instead of b43.

-- 
Chris Murphy
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