Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[shiny knight]

On Dec 1, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Reuti wrote:

> Am 30.11.2012 um 07:16 schrieb shiny knight:
> 
>> Thanks for all your replies.
>> 
>> As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would 
>> be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
>> 
>> So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
>> (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
>> project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for 
>> the Android side)
>> 
>> I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
>> should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS 
>> hassle free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).
>> 
>> Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
>> paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes 
>> attached, while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to add 
>> and remove nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable device 
>> (http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~szymansk/papers/ppam05.pdf) before realizing that 
>> there is no MPI implementation for them.
> 
> NB: AFAICS this paper refers to the IOS from Cisco, not iOS from Apple.

I am aware of that :) I was more interested in the whole concept behind it; it 
is a good starting point (then it is a matter to see how feasible it is to put 
it in practice on iOS and Android)


> 
> -- Reuti
> 
> 
>> I would never envision a system where a user has a device in his pocket that 
>> is actually doing "something" behind is back...mine was a simple issue with 
>> having devices sitting on my desk, which I use to test my apps, and I could 
>> use these devices in a more productive way, while I have them tethered to my 
>> main machine (which is the main server where MPI development is done).
>> 
>> Would you mind elaborate on the approach that you mentioned? I never used 
>> Xgrid, so I am not sure about how your solution would work.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Lou
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
>>> There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
>>> idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
>>> Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.
>>> 
>>> In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
>>> are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
>>> room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
>>> plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
>>> conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
>>> right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
>>> will have to provide fair assurances for.  After all, everyone likes to
>>> think they are control of what they put in their pocket.
>>> 
>>> V/R,
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/28/12 3:06 PM, "Dominik Goeddeke"
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 shameless plug: 
 http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
 
 In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from
 all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few
 colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype
 system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week)
 have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked
 flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we
 did those tests.
 
 The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard
 ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to
 hard to get the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Dominik
 
 
 On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
> You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
> and you want to install linux of course.
> 
> OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of
> distributions - most important is having
> the correct kernel (usually old kernel).
> 
> I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:
> 
>> I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.
>> 
>> I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to
>> include them in my computation scheme.
>> 
>> OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any
>> way to have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.
>> 
>> Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that
>> it is possible, nor I've found any practical example.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Reuti]

Am 30.11.2012 um 07:16 schrieb shiny knight:

> Thanks for all your replies.
> 
> As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would 
> be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
> 
> So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
> (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
> project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for 
> the Android side)
> 
> I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
> should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS 
> hassle free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).
> 
> Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
> paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes 
> attached, while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to add 
> and remove nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable device 
> (http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~szymansk/papers/ppam05.pdf) before realizing that 
> there is no MPI implementation for them.

NB: AFAICS this paper refers to the IOS from Cisco, not iOS from Apple.

-- Reuti


> I would never envision a system where a user has a device in his pocket that 
> is actually doing "something" behind is back...mine was a simple issue with 
> having devices sitting on my desk, which I use to test my apps, and I could 
> use these devices in a more productive way, while I have them tethered to my 
> main machine (which is the main server where MPI development is done).
> 
> Would you mind elaborate on the approach that you mentioned? I never used 
> Xgrid, so I am not sure about how your solution would work.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D wrote:
> 
>> Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
>> There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
>> idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
>> Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.
>> 
>> In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
>> are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
>> room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
>> plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
>> conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
>> right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
>> will have to provide fair assurances for.  After all, everyone likes to
>> think they are control of what they put in their pocket.
>> 
>> V/R,
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/28/12 3:06 PM, "Dominik Goeddeke"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> shameless plug: 
>>> http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
>>> 
>>> In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from
>>> all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few
>>> colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype
>>> system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week)
>>> have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked
>>> flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we
>>> did those tests.
>>> 
>>> The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard
>>> ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to
>>> hard to get the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Dominik
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
 You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
 and you want to install linux of course.
 
 OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of
 distributions - most important is having
 the correct kernel (usually old kernel).
 
 I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.
 
 
 
 On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:
 
> I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.
> 
> I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to
> include them in my computation scheme.
> 
> OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any
> way to have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.
> 
> Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that
> it is possible, nor I've found any practical example.
> 
> Thanks!
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
 
 ___
 users mailing list
 us...@open-mpi.org
 http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> 
>> 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Ralph Castain]

The connection on/off the iPad looks like an Ethernet port, I believe - but you 
should check that. Alternatively, you can send/recv across the wifi connection. 
No idea of the relative speeds, but you should be able to google that data.

On Nov 30, 2012, at 3:35 PM, shiny knight  wrote:

> I totally get your point Jeff, and thanks for pointing it out...this is an 
> aspect that I didn't consider yet.
> 
> Power should not be an issue, since the devices are plugged in. Now I need to 
> evaluate exactly how much power I can pull while the device is connected to 
> the computer, compared to the power needed to run a process at 100% CPU load. 
> Running over batteries is absolutely out of question I guess; my calculations 
> should go on for at least a couple of hours, so I doubt that I can run a 
> small device with batteries and accomplish my objectives.
> 
> Is there any info about how the I/O on the iPad and iPhone works? So I can 
> have an idea about what I can run on that cable and for how long. As you 
> pointed out, the main issue will be syncing processes...wifi may be feasible 
> but would be slower I guess (without specs is hard to even make assumptions).
> 
> No worries, you are talking about things that has to be evaluated; I am just 
> exploring an alternate use of old hardware; which may result in not being 
> convenient at all in the end. So any comments helps :)
> 
> I will focus on calculating what you suggested. Theoretically the dual core 
> Apple processors should be powerful enough to give some sort of performance 
> boost, but I am new to ARM so I don't really know too much about their 
> structure and pipeline, so I may be totally wrong.
> 
> -lou
> 
> 
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 7:35 AM, Jeff Squyres wrote:
> 
>> Not to throw cold water on this, but I think the canonical problem cited 
>> with doing distributed computations on mobile devices is the power 
>> requirement.  Meaning: if the devices are running on battery, you're really 
>> not going to get much computation out of them.  
>> 
>> And if you have them plugged in, you have a potential IO issue (i.e., how to 
>> get the input onto the device and the output out of the device).  You 
>> probably only have 802.11g (maybe 802.11n?) wifi available, and you might 
>> have to deal with a LOT of I/O.  Meaning: you might need to restrict this 
>> work to applications that are compute-heavy but IO-light.  But then again, 
>> you're dealing with small, "slow" processors, so compute-heavy problems on 
>> such processors might not do so well.  Or, more precisely, you might get 
>> much more compute efficiency with traditional "big" HPC servers.
>> 
>> Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to say this is a bad idea.  I'm just 
>> saying that it's worth doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations before 
>> you spend a lot of effort on porting code to mobile platforms.
>> 
>> For example, here's some interesting data points that would be good to 
>> calculate:
>> 
>> 1. How many (pick your favorite mobile device; say -- iPhone 5) would it 
>> take to equal the power of one cheap Intel Sandy Bridge-based server with 16 
>> cores?  Compare things like max sustained FLOPS and IOPS (integer ops, not 
>> IO ops), RAM sizes, etc.
>> 
>> 2. What's the procurement cost differential between 1 Intel Sandy 
>> Bridge-based server and N iPhone 5s?  What's the operational cost 
>> differential?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Ralph Castain wrote:
>> 
>>> Just an FYI: xgrid is no longer being distributed or supported.
>>> 
>>> I'd start by first building OMPI against the iOS simulator in Xcode. You 
>>> may run into some issues with the atomics that will need addressing, and 
>>> there may be other issues with syntax and header file locations. Best to 
>>> resolve those first.
>>> 
>>> Once you get that to build, you can test running several procs on a single 
>>> iPad. If you have older iPads, I'm not sure that will work as they don't 
>>> multi-task. But might be worth a try.
>>> 
>>> You'll then need to find a way to launch the processes across iPads. I 
>>> don't know if ssh will work, so you may have to devise a new plm module. I 
>>> can advise as you go.
>>> 
>>> FWIW: I have an iPad 1 and iOS development kit, so I can potentially help 
>>> with problems.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, shiny knight  wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks for all your replies.
 
 As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I 
 would be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
 
 So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
 (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
 project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least 
 for the Android side)
 
 I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so 
 it should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[shiny knight]

I totally get your point Jeff, and thanks for pointing it out...this is an 
aspect that I didn't consider yet.

Power should not be an issue, since the devices are plugged in. Now I need to 
evaluate exactly how much power I can pull while the device is connected to the 
computer, compared to the power needed to run a process at 100% CPU load. 
Running over batteries is absolutely out of question I guess; my calculations 
should go on for at least a couple of hours, so I doubt that I can run a small 
device with batteries and accomplish my objectives.

Is there any info about how the I/O on the iPad and iPhone works? So I can have 
an idea about what I can run on that cable and for how long. As you pointed 
out, the main issue will be syncing processes...wifi may be feasible but would 
be slower I guess (without specs is hard to even make assumptions).

No worries, you are talking about things that has to be evaluated; I am just 
exploring an alternate use of old hardware; which may result in not being 
convenient at all in the end. So any comments helps :)

I will focus on calculating what you suggested. Theoretically the dual core 
Apple processors should be powerful enough to give some sort of performance 
boost, but I am new to ARM so I don't really know too much about their 
structure and pipeline, so I may be totally wrong.

-lou


On Nov 30, 2012, at 7:35 AM, Jeff Squyres wrote:

> Not to throw cold water on this, but I think the canonical problem cited with 
> doing distributed computations on mobile devices is the power requirement.  
> Meaning: if the devices are running on battery, you're really not going to 
> get much computation out of them.  
> 
> And if you have them plugged in, you have a potential IO issue (i.e., how to 
> get the input onto the device and the output out of the device).  You 
> probably only have 802.11g (maybe 802.11n?) wifi available, and you might 
> have to deal with a LOT of I/O.  Meaning: you might need to restrict this 
> work to applications that are compute-heavy but IO-light.  But then again, 
> you're dealing with small, "slow" processors, so compute-heavy problems on 
> such processors might not do so well.  Or, more precisely, you might get much 
> more compute efficiency with traditional "big" HPC servers.
> 
> Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to say this is a bad idea.  I'm just 
> saying that it's worth doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations before 
> you spend a lot of effort on porting code to mobile platforms.
> 
> For example, here's some interesting data points that would be good to 
> calculate:
> 
> 1. How many (pick your favorite mobile device; say -- iPhone 5) would it take 
> to equal the power of one cheap Intel Sandy Bridge-based server with 16 
> cores?  Compare things like max sustained FLOPS and IOPS (integer ops, not IO 
> ops), RAM sizes, etc.
> 
> 2. What's the procurement cost differential between 1 Intel Sandy 
> Bridge-based server and N iPhone 5s?  What's the operational cost 
> differential?
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Ralph Castain wrote:
> 
>> Just an FYI: xgrid is no longer being distributed or supported.
>> 
>> I'd start by first building OMPI against the iOS simulator in Xcode. You may 
>> run into some issues with the atomics that will need addressing, and there 
>> may be other issues with syntax and header file locations. Best to resolve 
>> those first.
>> 
>> Once you get that to build, you can test running several procs on a single 
>> iPad. If you have older iPads, I'm not sure that will work as they don't 
>> multi-task. But might be worth a try.
>> 
>> You'll then need to find a way to launch the processes across iPads. I don't 
>> know if ssh will work, so you may have to devise a new plm module. I can 
>> advise as you go.
>> 
>> FWIW: I have an iPad 1 and iOS development kit, so I can potentially help 
>> with problems.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, shiny knight  wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for all your replies.
>>> 
>>> As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would 
>>> be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
>>> 
>>> So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
>>> (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
>>> project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for 
>>> the Android side)
>>> 
>>> I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
>>> should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS 
>>> hassle free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).
>>> 
>>> Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
>>> paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes 
>>> attached, while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to 
>>> add and remove nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable 
>>> device 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[shiny knight]

Thanks a lot for the pointers Ralph.

So I just check out the source for OMPI and build it in Xcode with target iOS? 
Sounds pretty straight forward. I will probably have to deal with errors but it 
seems that you did it already and it should not be that hard (I am still 
learning many things).

My iPad runs 5.1 so should be fine with the multitasking side. My first 
objective will be to run just one process on the iPad, sent by the main 
computer; then it will be interesting to explore a way to let the various 
device to communicate.

Much appreciated the help!

-lou


On Nov 30, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Ralph Castain wrote:

> Just an FYI: xgrid is no longer being distributed or supported.
> 
> I'd start by first building OMPI against the iOS simulator in Xcode. You may 
> run into some issues with the atomics that will need addressing, and there 
> may be other issues with syntax and header file locations. Best to resolve 
> those first.
> 
> Once you get that to build, you can test running several procs on a single 
> iPad. If you have older iPads, I'm not sure that will work as they don't 
> multi-task. But might be worth a try.
> 
> You'll then need to find a way to launch the processes across iPads. I don't 
> know if ssh will work, so you may have to devise a new plm module. I can 
> advise as you go.
> 
> FWIW: I have an iPad 1 and iOS development kit, so I can potentially help 
> with problems.
> 
> 
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, shiny knight  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all your replies.
>> 
>> As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would 
>> be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
>> 
>> So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
>> (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
>> project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for 
>> the Android side)
>> 
>> I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
>> should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS 
>> hassle free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).
>> 
>> Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
>> paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes 
>> attached, while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to add 
>> and remove nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable device 
>> (http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~szymansk/papers/ppam05.pdf) before realizing that 
>> there is no MPI implementation for them.
>> 
>> I would never envision a system where a user has a device in his pocket that 
>> is actually doing "something" behind is back...mine was a simple issue with 
>> having devices sitting on my desk, which I use to test my apps, and I could 
>> use these devices in a more productive way, while I have them tethered to my 
>> main machine (which is the main server where MPI development is done).
>> 
>> Would you mind elaborate on the approach that you mentioned? I never used 
>> Xgrid, so I am not sure about how your solution would work.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Lou
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
>>> There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
>>> idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
>>> Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.
>>> 
>>> In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
>>> are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
>>> room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
>>> plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
>>> conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
>>> right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
>>> will have to provide fair assurances for.  After all, everyone likes to
>>> think they are control of what they put in their pocket.
>>> 
>>> V/R,
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/28/12 3:06 PM, "Dominik Goeddeke"
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 shameless plug: 
 http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
 
 In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from
 all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few
 colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype
 system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week)
 have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked
 flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we
 did those tests.
 
 The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard
 ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to
 hard to 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Jeff Squyres]

Not to throw cold water on this, but I think the canonical problem cited with 
doing distributed computations on mobile devices is the power requirement.  
Meaning: if the devices are running on battery, you're really not going to get 
much computation out of them.  

And if you have them plugged in, you have a potential IO issue (i.e., how to 
get the input onto the device and the output out of the device).  You probably 
only have 802.11g (maybe 802.11n?) wifi available, and you might have to deal 
with a LOT of I/O.  Meaning: you might need to restrict this work to 
applications that are compute-heavy but IO-light.  But then again, you're 
dealing with small, "slow" processors, so compute-heavy problems on such 
processors might not do so well.  Or, more precisely, you might get much more 
compute efficiency with traditional "big" HPC servers.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to say this is a bad idea.  I'm just saying 
that it's worth doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations before you spend a 
lot of effort on porting code to mobile platforms.

For example, here's some interesting data points that would be good to 
calculate:

1. How many (pick your favorite mobile device; say -- iPhone 5) would it take 
to equal the power of one cheap Intel Sandy Bridge-based server with 16 cores?  
Compare things like max sustained FLOPS and IOPS (integer ops, not IO ops), RAM 
sizes, etc.

2. What's the procurement cost differential between 1 Intel Sandy Bridge-based 
server and N iPhone 5s?  What's the operational cost differential?



On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Ralph Castain wrote:

> Just an FYI: xgrid is no longer being distributed or supported.
> 
> I'd start by first building OMPI against the iOS simulator in Xcode. You may 
> run into some issues with the atomics that will need addressing, and there 
> may be other issues with syntax and header file locations. Best to resolve 
> those first.
> 
> Once you get that to build, you can test running several procs on a single 
> iPad. If you have older iPads, I'm not sure that will work as they don't 
> multi-task. But might be worth a try.
> 
> You'll then need to find a way to launch the processes across iPads. I don't 
> know if ssh will work, so you may have to devise a new plm module. I can 
> advise as you go.
> 
> FWIW: I have an iPad 1 and iOS development kit, so I can potentially help 
> with problems.
> 
> 
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, shiny knight  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all your replies.
>> 
>> As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would 
>> be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
>> 
>> So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
>> (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
>> project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for 
>> the Android side)
>> 
>> I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
>> should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS 
>> hassle free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).
>> 
>> Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
>> paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes 
>> attached, while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to add 
>> and remove nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable device 
>> (http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~szymansk/papers/ppam05.pdf) before realizing that 
>> there is no MPI implementation for them.
>> 
>> I would never envision a system where a user has a device in his pocket that 
>> is actually doing "something" behind is back...mine was a simple issue with 
>> having devices sitting on my desk, which I use to test my apps, and I could 
>> use these devices in a more productive way, while I have them tethered to my 
>> main machine (which is the main server where MPI development is done).
>> 
>> Would you mind elaborate on the approach that you mentioned? I never used 
>> Xgrid, so I am not sure about how your solution would work.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Lou
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
>>> There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
>>> idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
>>> Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.
>>> 
>>> In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
>>> are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
>>> room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
>>> plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
>>> conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
>>> right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
>>> will have to provide fair 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Ralph Castain]

Just an FYI: xgrid is no longer being distributed or supported.

I'd start by first building OMPI against the iOS simulator in Xcode. You may 
run into some issues with the atomics that will need addressing, and there may 
be other issues with syntax and header file locations. Best to resolve those 
first.

Once you get that to build, you can test running several procs on a single 
iPad. If you have older iPads, I'm not sure that will work as they don't 
multi-task. But might be worth a try.

You'll then need to find a way to launch the processes across iPads. I don't 
know if ssh will work, so you may have to devise a new plm module. I can advise 
as you go.

FWIW: I have an iPad 1 and iOS development kit, so I can potentially help with 
problems.


On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, shiny knight  wrote:

> Thanks for all your replies.
> 
> As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would 
> be oriented to pursue more the iOS route.
> 
> So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
> (Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
> project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for 
> the Android side)
> 
> I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
> should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS 
> hassle free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).
> 
> Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
> paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes 
> attached, while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to add 
> and remove nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable device 
> (http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~szymansk/papers/ppam05.pdf) before realizing that 
> there is no MPI implementation for them.
> 
> I would never envision a system where a user has a device in his pocket that 
> is actually doing "something" behind is back...mine was a simple issue with 
> having devices sitting on my desk, which I use to test my apps, and I could 
> use these devices in a more productive way, while I have them tethered to my 
> main machine (which is the main server where MPI development is done).
> 
> Would you mind elaborate on the approach that you mentioned? I never used 
> Xgrid, so I am not sure about how your solution would work.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D wrote:
> 
>> Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
>> There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
>> idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
>> Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.
>> 
>> In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
>> are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
>> room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
>> plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
>> conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
>> right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
>> will have to provide fair assurances for.  After all, everyone likes to
>> think they are control of what they put in their pocket.
>> 
>> V/R,
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/28/12 3:06 PM, "Dominik Goeddeke"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> shameless plug: 
>>> http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
>>> 
>>> In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from
>>> all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few
>>> colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype
>>> system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week)
>>> have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked
>>> flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we
>>> did those tests.
>>> 
>>> The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard
>>> ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to
>>> hard to get the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Dominik
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
 You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
 and you want to install linux of course.
 
 OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of
 distributions - most important is having
 the correct kernel (usually old kernel).
 
 I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.
 
 
 
 On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:
 
> I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.
> 
> I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to
> include 

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[shiny knight]

Thanks for all your replies.

As now I have access to 3 iOS devices and 1 Android, so if possible I would be 
oriented to pursue more the iOS route.

So it seems that there is not yet a simple way to do so on these devices 
(Thanks for the paper posted Dominik); I will have to look deeper in that 
project that you mentioned and wait for some official release (at least for the 
Android side)

I may install linux distro on a virtual machine; mostly I work on OSX so it 
should not be that bad (OSX allows me to work with both Android and iOS hassle 
free; that's why I had the thought to use my devices for MPI).

Beatty: My idea is to use the devices only when plugged in; I was reading a 
paper about how to use MPI and dynamically change the number of nodes attached, 
while crunching data for a process. So it would be possible to add and remove 
nodes on the fly, and was trying to apply it to a portable device 
(http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~szymansk/papers/ppam05.pdf) before realizing that there 
is no MPI implementation for them.

I would never envision a system where a user has a device in his pocket that is 
actually doing "something" behind is back...mine was a simple issue with having 
devices sitting on my desk, which I use to test my apps, and I could use these 
devices in a more productive way, while I have them tethered to my main machine 
(which is the main server where MPI development is done).

Would you mind elaborate on the approach that you mentioned? I never used 
Xgrid, so I am not sure about how your solution would work.

Thanks!

Lou


On Nov 29, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D wrote:

> Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
> There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
> idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
> Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.
> 
> In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
> are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
> room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
> plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
> conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
> right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
> will have to provide fair assurances for.  After all, everyone likes to
> think they are control of what they put in their pocket.
> 
> V/R,
> Dan
> 
> 
> On 11/28/12 3:06 PM, "Dominik Goeddeke"
>  wrote:
> 
>> shameless plug: 
>> http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
>> 
>> In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from
>> all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few
>> colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype
>> system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week)
>> have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked
>> flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we
>> did those tests.
>> 
>> The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard
>> ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to
>> hard to get the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Dominik
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>> You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
>>> and you want to install linux of course.
>>> 
>>> OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of
>>> distributions - most important is having
>>> the correct kernel (usually old kernel).
>>> 
>>> I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:
>>> 
 I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.
 
 I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to
 include them in my computation scheme.
 
 OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any
 way to have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.
 
 Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that
 it is possible, nor I've found any practical example.
 
 Thanks!
 ___
 users mailing list
 us...@open-mpi.org
 http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> users mailing list
>>> us...@open-mpi.org
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> 
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D]

Greetings Ladies and gentlemen,
There is one alternative approach and this a psuedo-cloud based MPI.  The
idea is that MPI node list is adjusted via the cloud similar to the way
Xgrid's Bonjour used to do it for Xgrid.

In this case, it is applying an MPI notion to the OpenCL codelets.  There
are obvious issues with security, battery life, etc.  There is considerable
room for discussion as far expectations.  Do jobs run free if the device is
plugged in?  If the device in the pocket, can the user switch to power
conservation/ cooler pockets?  What constitutes fairness?  Do owners have a
right to be biased in judgement?   These are tough questions that I think I
will have to provide fair assurances for.  After all, everyone likes to
think they are control of what they put in their pocket.

V/R,
Dan


On 11/28/12 3:06 PM, "Dominik Goeddeke"
 wrote:

> shameless plug: 
> http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
> 
> In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from
> all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few
> colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype
> system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week)
> have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked
> flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we
> did those tests.
> 
> The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard
> ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to
> hard to get the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dominik
> 
> 
> On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>> You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
>> and you want to install linux of course.
>> 
>> OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of
>> distributions - most important is having
>> the correct kernel (usually old kernel).
>> 
>> I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:
>> 
>>> I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.
>>> 
>>> I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to
>>> include them in my computation scheme.
>>> 
>>> OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any
>>> way to have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.
>>> 
>>> Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that
>>> it is possible, nor I've found any practical example.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> ___
>>> users mailing list
>>> us...@open-mpi.org
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> 
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> 


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Ralph Castain]

I seem to vaguely recall someone porting OMPI to the iPad at one time as part 
of a large-scale, impromptu cluster demo at some conference - everyone was 
supposed to bring a computer, network them all into a large "cluster", and then 
run a benchmark to see how fast it would work. I can't find or recall the 
details though.

There are some ARM folks on this list, though, so perhaps they will speak up - 
IIRC, there was some more formal effort to make such a port.


On Nov 28, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Dominik Goeddeke 
 wrote:

> shameless plug: 
> http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf
> 
> In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from all 
> around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few colleagues, we have 
> been honoured to get access to an early prototype system. The runs for the 
> paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week) have been carried out with 
> MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked flawlessly except for some 
> issues with SLURM integration at the time we did those tests.
> 
> The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard ubuntu, 
> and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to hard to get 
> the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dominik
> 
> 
> On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>> You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
>> and you want to install linux of course.
>> 
>> OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of 
>> distributions - most important is having
>> the correct kernel (usually old kernel).
>> 
>> I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:
>> 
>>> I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.
>>> 
>>> I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to 
>>> include them in my computation scheme.
>>> 
>>> OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any way to 
>>> have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.
>>> 
>>> Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that it is 
>>> possible, nor I've found any practical example.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> ___
>>> users mailing list
>>> us...@open-mpi.org
>>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> 
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jun.-Prof. Dr. Dominik Göddeke
> Hardware-orientierte Numerik für große Systeme
> Institut für Angewandte Mathematik (LS III)
> Fakultät für Mathematik, Technische Universität Dortmund
> http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke
> Tel. +49-(0)231-755-7218  Fax +49-(0)231-755-5933
> 
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Dominik Goeddeke]

shameless plug: 
http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke/pubs/pdf/Goeddeke_2012_EEV.pdf


In the MontBlanc project (www.montblanc-project.eu), a lot of folks from 
all around Europe look into exactly this. Together with a few 
colleagues, we have been honoured to get access to an early prototype 
system. The runs for the paper above (accepted in JCP as of last week) 
have been carried out with MPICH2 back in June, but OpenMPI also worked 
flawlessly except for some issues with SLURM integration at the time we 
did those tests.


The bottom line is: The prototype machine (128 Tegra2's) ran standard 
ubuntu, and since Android is essentially Linux, it should not be to 
hard to get the system you envision up and running, Shiny Knight.


Cheers,

Dominik


On 11/29/2012 12:00 AM, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
and you want to install linux of course.

OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number of 
distributions - most important is having

the correct kernel (usually old kernel).

I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.



On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:


I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.

I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able to 
include them in my computation scheme.


OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any 
way to have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.


Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that 
it is possible, nor I've found any practical example.


Thanks!
___
users mailing list
us...@open-mpi.org
http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users


___
users mailing list
us...@open-mpi.org
http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users



--
Jun.-Prof. Dr. Dominik Göddeke
Hardware-orientierte Numerik für große Systeme
Institut für Angewandte Mathematik (LS III)
Fakultät für Mathematik, Technische Universität Dortmund
http://www.mathematik.tu-dortmund.de/~goeddeke
Tel. +49-(0)231-755-7218  Fax +49-(0)231-755-5933

Re: [OMPI users] cluster with iOS or Android devices?

[Vincent Diepeveen]

You might want to post in beowulf mailing list see cc
and you want to install linux of course.

OpenFabrics releases openmpi, yet it only works at a limited number  
of distributions - most important is having

the correct kernel (usually old kernel).

I'm gonna try get it to work at debian soon.



On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:50 PM, shiny knight wrote:


I was looking for some info about MPI port on iOS or Android devices.

I have some old devices that may result useful, if I could be able  
to include them in my computation scheme.


OpenCL runs on iOS and Android, so I was wondering if there is any  
way to have an old iPhone/phone or iPad/tablet to run MPI.


Tried to look everywhere, but I didn't find anything that says that  
it is possible, nor I've found any practical example.


Thanks!
___
users mailing list
us...@open-mpi.org
http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users