[Pw_forum] compiling with ifort

2013-01-02 Thread eitan eidelstein
My suggestion is that you should put a list in the web contains which
packages have been tested by you with which compiler and O.S., Or in which
combination of package compiler and O.S. you know it is not working (at
least for the examples you give). this will reduce all that kind of mails.
thanks, eitan.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://pwscf.org/pipermail/pw_forum/attachments/20130102/23928eff/attachment.html
 


[Pw_forum] compiling with ifort

2013-01-02 Thread Axel Kohlmeyer
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:17 PM, eitan eidelstein
 wrote:
> My suggestion is that you should put a list in the web contains which
> packages have been tested by you with which compiler and O.S., Or in which
> combination of package compiler and O.S. you know it is not working (at
> least for the examples you give). this will reduce all that kind of mails.

this is a good idea in theory, but doesn't work in practice.
this information is already part of the Q-E documentation,
but nobody seems to be reading it (as is confirmed by many
other frequently re-asked questions that are well documented).

http://www.quantum-espresso.org/wp-content/uploads/Doc/user_guide/node14.html

axel.

> thanks, eitan.
>
> ___
> Pw_forum mailing list
> Pw_forum at pwscf.org
> http://pwscf.org/mailman/listinfo/pw_forum



--
Dr. Axel Kohlmeyer  akohlmey at gmail.com  http://goo.gl/1wk0
International Centre for Theoretical Physics, Trieste. Italy.


[Pw_forum] core-relax in hyperfine calculation (GIPAW)

2013-01-02 Thread Davide Ceresoli
Dear Jarkko,
 I changed the radial integration bound in 5.0.1. As a consequence
results are slightly different from 4.3.2. The reason is that in 4.3.1 I
got extremely bad HFCC for elements on the right columns in the periodic
table (like oxygen). However the core-relaxation is still not accurate
for such elements, and I'm investigating other relaxation schemes.

Regarding metallic systems, yes for EFG/hyperfine, not yet for NMR/EPR.

Best wishes,
 Davide



On 01/02/2013 02:35 PM, Jarkko V?h?kangas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm starting to use QE 5.0.2 and corresponding GIPAW. I hThe compilation went 
> smoothly but  I'm getting different core-relax contribution compared to GIPAW 
> 4.3.1 in H2O+ example.
>
> So, could tell me that which is correct one? Additionally, is it possible for 
> current GIPAW to calculate NMR/EPR properties to "metallic-like" systems 
> using smearing?
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Jarkko V?h?kangas (PhD cand.)
> University of oulu, Finland
>


[Pw_forum] failure in trying to compute U

2013-01-02 Thread "José C. Conesa"
Hi all,
I am trying to compute U for Mo in a molybdenum bronze, using 
Cococcioni's method. The calculation crashes. A file CRASH results with 
this content:
%%
 task # 9
   reading namelist system
  %%

Standard output shows, after lines
...
  Max number of k-points (npk) =  4
  Max angular momentum in pseudopotentials (lmaxx) =  3
  Waiting for input...
  Reading input from standard input


these lines (repeated as many times as parallel processes involved):
  %%
  Error in routine  read_namelists (17):
   reading namelist system
  %%
  stopping ...

My input file is

&control
title = 'a0.05'
calculation = 'scf'
restart_mode='from_scratch'
verbosity = 'high',
prefix='namo6o17',
etot_conv_thr = 2.0D-6
/
&system
ibrav=14,
celldm(1)= 5.5325, celldm(2)=0.9974, celldm(3)=2.3467,
celldm(4)=0.0, celldm(5)=0.0009076, celldm(6)=-0.49868442,
nat= 24, ntyp= 4,
ecutwfc=30.0, ecutrho=125.0,
nbnd= 150, nspin=2,
starting_magnetization(1)= 0.1,
starting_magnetization(2)=-0.5,
starting_magnetization(3)= 0.0,
starting_magnetization(4)= 0.0,
occupations='smearing', smearing='mp', degauss=0.01,
lda_plus_u = .true.,
Hubbard_U(1)=1.d-8, Hubbard_U(2)=1.d-8, # (values used in the 
previous run)
Hubbard_alpha(1)= 0.0, # this is alpha 0 applied on atom 1 (Mo)
Hubbard_alpha(2)= 0.05, # this is alpha, only applied on atom 2 
(also Mo)
/
&electrons
 diagonalization='cg'
 startingpot = 'namo6o17'  #
 startingwfc = 'namo6o17' # (the corresponding files from the 
previous run are copied in the main working directory)
 diago_thr_init = 1.59E-10  # (from the previous run)
 mixing_mode = 'plain'
 mixing_beta = 0.7
 conv_thr = 1.0d-9,
/
ATOMIC_SPECIES
  ...(pseudopotentials for all species)
ATOMIC_POSITIONS crystal
(names and coordinates of 24 atoms)
K_POINTS automatic
4 4 4 0 0 0

?Any  hint on the cause of the problem?
Thanks,

-- 
Jos? C. Conesa
Instituto de Cat?lisis y Petroleoqu?mica, CSIC
Marie Curie 2, Cantoblanco
28049 Madrid - Spain
Tel. +34-915854766



[Pw_forum] Can QE outputs velocities in MD implemented by scf ?

2013-01-02 Thread Tian Lan
Hello all,

I am using scf to run the BO molecular dynamics (scf.x, not the cp.x code
which uses CPMD). However, I did not see the output of of velocities. The
.output files gives updated forces and coordinates, but there is no
information about velocity. In the .save file, I also did not find it. I
may get the velocity from updated coordinates in each step but that is a
crude approximation. I wonder whether scf MD could output the velocity or
not. Hopefully I just do not know this setup.

Best,
Tian

-- 
Lan, Tian
Ph.D. Candidate, Department of Applied Physics and Materials Science
California Institute of Technology,
Caltech M/C 138-78, Pasadena, CA, 91125
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://pwscf.org/pipermail/pw_forum/attachments/20130102/de44d1a4/attachment.html
 


[Pw_forum] Pseudo directory error

2013-01-02 Thread Axel Kohlmeyer
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Bramha Pandey  
wrote:
> Thanks Dear Axel and Ari for your elaborate explanation about non commercial
> and free software. But we can see easiness compilation of all packages which
> is included in espresso and there may be existing some problem with gfortron
> which like me users can not check and correct where the problem is existing.
> for example QHA package in
> espresso is compiled only by ifort.

what has that to do with the price of rice in china? ;)

if you want to use the intel compiler, you need a valid
license, and - as discussed - the non-commercial
license does not apply to people working in academia.
the fact that you have a broken gfortran installation
on your machine doesn't justify using software in
violation of its license. am i allowed to steal your
car, because i couldn't pay for a cab??

apart from that, i contend that the code in question
*does* compile correctly with gfortran, you probably
simply need to update to a more recent version.
if you believe, that the code itself is in error, please
provide *proper* proof and report it to the gfortran
or quantum espresso developers, depending on
where you confirm the bug.

axel.

>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Ari P Seitsonen 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Branha Pandey,
>>
>>   Axel managed to write the same things that I was planning to state as
>> well - I know that one can download it without paying any money, but one has
>> to accept the license agreements, and most scientists do not fulfill them.
>> I'm also taking this as an academic "obligation": Since most of us indeed
>> prefer free software, it would be better to use the "free" variant - in this
>> case 'gcc'/'gfortran' - and help its developers improve its quality by
>> reporting the remaining bugs to them. In this case the problem is probably
>> already solved in the never versions of 'gfortran' though.
>>
>> Greetings and All the Best in 2013!,
>>
>>
>>apsi
>>
>>
>> -=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
>>   Ari P Seitsonen / Ari.P.Seitsonen at iki.fi / http://www.iki.fi/~apsi/
>>   Physikalisch-Chemisches Institut der Universitaet Zuerich
>>   Tel: +41 44 63 54 497  /  Mobile: +41 79 71 90 935
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 30 Dec 2012, Bramha Pandey wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Ari,
>>> you can downloaded ifortron for non-commercial purposes without any
>>> restriction with license agreement.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Ari P Seitsonen
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Dear Deepika,
>>>
>>> Newer versions of 'gfortran' should also work I believe. The
>>>   license agreements of the Intel compiler are quite restrictive -
>>>   well I guess most of the people either do not know or actively
>>>   ignore them.
>>>
>>>   #> gfortran -v
>>>
>>>   shows you which version you have installed on your machine.
>>>
>>>   Greetings and Good Luck,
>>>
>>>  apsi
>>>
>>>
>>> -=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*
>>>   =-
>>> Ari P Seitsonen / Ari.P.Seitsonen at iki.fi /
>>>   http://www.iki.fi/~apsi/
>>> Physikalisch-Chemisches Institut der Universitaet Zuerich
>>> Tel: +41 44 63 54 497  /  Mobile: +41 79 71 90 935
>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks and Regards
> Bramha Prasad Pandey
> Indian School of Mines(ISM)
> Dhanbad, INDIA.
>
> ___
> Pw_forum mailing list
> Pw_forum at pwscf.org
> http://pwscf.org/mailman/listinfo/pw_forum



--
Dr. Axel Kohlmeyer  akohlmey at gmail.com  http://goo.gl/1wk0
International Centre for Theoretical Physics, Trieste. Italy.


[Pw_forum] execution problem when compiling with openmp and ifort

2013-01-02 Thread eitan eidelstein
Hello,
If I try to use QE.5.0.2 compiled with  MPICC=icc CC=icc F90=ifort
MPIF90=mpiifort F77=ifort MPIF77=ifort, all examples are o.k..
If I add --enable-openmp to the configure flags then examples 6,7,11
crashes:

/home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/PHonon/examples/example06 : starting

This example shows how to use ph.x to calculate the phonons at X and Gamma
of fcc-Pt using fully relativistic pseudo-potential and including
spin-orbit coupling.

  executables directory: /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin
  pseudo directory:  /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/pseudo
  temporary directory:   /home/eeitan/tmp

  checking that needed directories and files exist... done

  running pw.x as:   /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/pw.x  -nband 1 -ntg
1
  running ph.x as:   /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/ph.x  -nband 1 -ntg
1

  cleaning /home/eeitan/tmp... done
  running the scf calculation for Pt with spin-orbit
coupling.../home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/pw.x: symbol lookup error:
/opt/intel/l_ics_2013.0.028/mkl/lib/inte
l64/libmkl_intel_thread.so: undefined symbol: __kmpc_master
Error condition encountered during test: exit status = 127
Aborting

/home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/PHonon/examples/example07 : starting

This example tests pw.x and ph.x in several cases that require
the noncollinear or the spin-orbit part of the code together
with the gga.
ph.x is used to calculate the phonons at X and Gamma of fcc-Pt with gga,
and to calculate the phonons at X and Gamma of fcc-Ni to test
the magnetic case with gga with or without spin-orbit

  executables directory: /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin
  pseudo directory:  /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/pseudo
  temporary directory:   /home/eeitan/tmp

  checking that needed directories and files exist... done

  running pw.x as:   /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/pw.x  -nband 1 -ntg
1
  running ph.x as:   /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/ph.x  -nband 1 -ntg
1

  cleaning /home/eeitan/tmp... done
  running scf pw.x for Pt with gga-pbe and spin-orbit
coupling.../home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/pw.x: symbol lookup error:
/opt/intel/l_ics_2013.0.028/mkl/lib/int
el64/libmkl_intel_thread.so: undefined symbol: __kmpc_master
Error condition encountered during test: exit status = 127
Aborting
/home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/PHonon/examples/example11 : starting

This example calculates the phonon modes of relativistic Au
at the gamma and X points with PAW in the noncollinear and
spin-orbit case.


  executables directory: /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin
  pseudo directory:  /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/pseudo
  temporary directory:   /home/eeitan/tmp
  checking that needed directories and files exist... done

  running pw.x as:   /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/pw.x  -nband 1
-ntg 1
  running ph.x as:   /home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/ph.x  -nband 1
-ntg 1

  cleaning /home/eeitan/tmp... done
  running the scf calculation for Au with PAW and spin-orbit... done
  running ph.x for Au at Gamma with PAW and spin-orbit... done
  running ph.x for Au at X with PAW and
spin-orbit.../home/eeitan/QE/espresso-5.0.2/bin/ph.x: symbol lookup error:
/opt/intel/l_ics_2013.0.028/mkl/lib/intel64/libmkl_
intel_thread.so: undefined symbol: __kmpc_master
Error condition encountered during test: exit status = 127
Aborting


thanks in addvance,
Uri (Ben Gurion Univ. Israel).
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://pwscf.org/pipermail/pw_forum/attachments/20130102/5991b247/attachment.html
 


[Pw_forum] core-relax in hyperfine calculation (GIPAW)

2013-01-02 Thread Jarkko Vähäkangas
Hi,

I'm starting to use QE 5.0.2 and corresponding GIPAW. I hThe compilation went 
smoothly but  I'm getting different core-relax contribution compared to GIPAW 
4.3.1 in H2O+ example.

Output from v.5.0.2:

PRINCIPAL AXIS OF THE DIPOLAR COUPLINGS:
 O1Axx=   57.6603axis=(  0.99  0.001107  0.00)
 O1Ayy=   59.4428axis=( -0.001107  0.99  0.06)
 O1Azz= -117.1032axis=(  0.00 -0.06  1.00)
 
 H2Axx=   -7.1733axis=(  0.00 -0.02  1.00)
 H2Ayy=  -23.8786axis=(  0.554299 -0.832318 -0.02)
 H2Azz=   31.0518axis=(  0.832318  0.554299  0.01)
 
 H3Axx=   -7.1727axis=(  0.00 -0.02  1.00)
 H3Ayy=  -23.8779axis=( -0.554302 -0.832315 -0.02)
 H3Azz=   31.0505axis=(  0.832315 -0.554302 -0.01)
 
 
 ISOTROPIC (FERMI-CONTACT) COUPLINGS WITHOUT ZORA:
 USING CORE-RELAXATION METHOD: PRB 76, 035124 (2007)
 Warning: core-relaxation is an experimental feature
 - spin-densities in bohrradius^-3 -
   bareGIPAW   core-relax  total
 O10.0066670.337362   -0.2034290.140600
 H2   -0.008880   -0.0062900.00   -0.015170
 H3   -0.008875   -0.0062860.00   -0.015161
 - Fermi contact in G -
   bareGIPAW   core-relax  total
 O1   -1.442135  -72.971400   44.001759  -30.411776
 H2  -14.163000  -10.0319590.00  -24.194959
 H3  -14.155300  -10.0264950.00  -24.181794

and form 4.3.1:
PRINCIPAL AXIS OF THE DIPOLAR COUPLINGS:
 O1Axx=   57.6608axis=(  0.99  0.001114  0.00)
 O1Ayy=   59.4429axis=( -0.001114  0.99  0.05)
 O1Azz= -117.1037axis=(  0.00 -0.05  1.00)
 
 H2Axx=   -7.1733axis=(  0.00 -0.02  1.00)
 H2Ayy=  -23.8785axis=(  0.554300 -0.832317 -0.01)
 H2Azz=   31.0518axis=(  0.832317  0.554300  0.01)
 
 H3Axx=   -7.1726axis=(  0.00 -0.02  1.00)
 H3Ayy=  -23.8778axis=( -0.554303 -0.832315 -0.01)
 H3Azz=   31.0505axis=(  0.832315 -0.554303 -0.01)
 
 
 SPIN DENSITIES IN bohrradius^-3 WITHOUT ZORA:
 Warning: core-relaxation is an experimental feature
   bareGIPAW   core-relax  total
 O10.0066670.337358   -0.2928870.051138
 H2   -0.008880   -0.0062900.00   -0.015169
 H3   -0.008875   -0.0062860.00   -0.015161
 
 ISOTROPIC (FERMI-CONTACT) COUPLINGS WITHOUT ZORA:
 Warning: core-relaxation is an experimental feature
   bareGIPAW   core-relax  total
 O1   -1.442085  -72.970443   63.351469  -11.061059
 H2  -14.162531  -10.0315520.00  -24.194083
 H3  -14.154765  -10.0260400.00  -24.180805


So, could tell me that which is correct one? Additionally, is it possible for 
current GIPAW to calculate NMR/EPR properties to "metallic-like" systems using 
smearing?

Thanks and Regards
Jarkko V?h?kangas (PhD cand.)
University of oulu, Finland 






[Pw_forum] Titanium Pseudopotential

2013-01-02 Thread Iwan Darmadi
Dear All,

I am confused about occupations in Ti pseudopotential (no matter it is pbe, 
blyp, or anything else). In the UPF file, it is written like this :
nl pn? l?? occ? 
3S? 3? 0? 2.00? 
3P? 3? 1? 6.00? 
4S? 4? 0? 2.00? 
3D? 3? 2? 1.00? 


Everyone knows that electron configuration of Ti is [Ar] 4s(2) 3d(2), so my 
questions are :

1) Why occupation of 3d in the UPF is 1, not 2 instead (according to Ti 
electron conf.) ?

2) In case I want to insert ion Ti4+ into my crystal system, how could I assure 
that the Ti pseudopotential is in 4+ ion state, not 3+ state ?

Best regards,

Iwan D.

?
***

Iwan Darmadi
?Undergrad.Student - Department of Physics

?Universitas Indonesia
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://pwscf.org/pipermail/pw_forum/attachments/20130102/94ef7e5f/attachment.html
 


[Pw_forum] failure in trying to compute U

2013-01-02 Thread Jia Chen
Hi Jose,

You may use ! instead of # in your input.

bests

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:35 PM, "Jos? C. Conesa"  
wrote:
> #



-- 
Jia Chen
webpage: www.princeton.edu/~jiachen



[Pw_forum] what code actually loads xplor files? The edmplugin does not seem to execute and I can't find a py file.

2013-01-02 Thread Mike Marchywka



sorry wrong address arrgggh can you please delete that...




> From: marchywka at hotmail.com
> To: pw_forum at pwscf.org
> Subject: what code actually loads xplor files? The edmplugin does not seem to 
> execute and I can't find a py file.
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 10:59:13 -0500
>
>
>
> I'm trying to load a self-generated xplor file and pymol keeps segfaulting. I 
> wanted to debug the
> problem but can't get my debug statements to execute. The only thing that 
> greps for "xplor"
> is a few pymol modules and plugin called edmplugin. If I rebuild the plugin 
> and relink pymol
> nothing seems to change. Is this the right code? I also wanted to add a 
> loader for other
> formats of density or vector fields and maybe do some rendering ( I have an 
> old viewer I wrote
> with glut and thought I may be able to salvage parts of that for use here).
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> note new address
> Mike Marchywka 2295 Collinworth Drive Marietta GA 30062.
> formerly 487 Salem Woods Drive Marietta GA 30067 404-788-1216 (C)<- leave 
> message 989-348-4796 (P)<- emergency
>
>
>
  


[Pw_forum] what code actually loads xplor files? The edmplugin does not seem to execute and I can't find a py file.

2013-01-02 Thread Mike Marchywka


I'm trying to load a self-generated xplor file and pymol keeps segfaulting. I 
wanted to debug the
problem but can't get my debug statements to execute. The only thing that greps 
for "xplor"
is a few pymol modules and plugin called edmplugin. If I rebuild the plugin and 
relink pymol
nothing seems to change. Is this the right code? I also wanted to add a loader 
for other
formats of density or vector fields and maybe do some rendering ( I have an old 
viewer I wrote
with glut and thought I may be able to salvage parts of that for use here).

Thanks.



note new address
Mike Marchywka 2295 Collinworth Drive Marietta GA 30062.
formerly 487 Salem Woods Drive Marietta GA 30067 404-788-1216 (C)<- leave 
message 989-348-4796 (P)<- emergency


  


[Pw_forum] Error in 'nscf' calculation " from cdiaghg : diagonalization (ZHEGV*) failed"

2013-01-02 Thread Kopinjol Baishya
Hi, Everyone,

I get this error in my nscf calculation:

  from cdiaghg : error #99
1069  diagonalization (ZHEGV*) failed .

I am basically running a TiO2 bulk calculation. The scf calculation runs
fine. But I get the above error in the nscf calculation. The only
difference in the nscf calculation is that I increase the number of bands
to 100.

Here is the input file for the scf calculation:

  &control
  prefix='Rutile',

pseudo_dir='/scratch/scratchdirs/kopinjol/Calculations/Projects/TiO2/TiO
 2/Rutile/Yambo',

outdir='/scratch/scratchdirs/kopinjol/Calculations/Projects/TiO2/TiO2/Ru
 tile/Yambo/SAVE',
   /
  &system
  ibrav=6, celldm(1)=8.674, celldm(3)=0.645,  nat=6, ntyp=2,
  ecutwfc = 50.0,
  occupations='fixed',
  nspin=1, nbnd=20,
  force_symmorphic=.true.,
  nosym=.false.,
   /
  &electrons
  diago_full_acc = .true.,
  diago_thr_init = 1.0d-6,
  diagonalization='cg',
   /
  ATOMIC_SPECIES
   Ti  47.867  Ti.UPF
   O   15.99   O.UPF
  ATOMIC_POSITIONS bohr
   Ti0. 0. 0.
   Ti6.13831976 0. 2.79501944
   O-2.38657872 0. 2.79501944
   O 2.38657872 0. 2.79501944
   O 6.13831976-2.38657872 0.
   O 6.13831976 2.38657872 0.

  K_POINTS automatic
   8 8 8 0 0 0



And here is the input file for the nscf calculation:


  &control
  calculation='nscf'
  prefix='Rutile',

pseudo_dir='/scratch/scratchdirs/kopinjol/Calculations/Projects/TiO2/TiO
 2/Rutile/Yambo',

outdir='/scratch/scratchdirs/kopinjol/Calculations/Projects/TiO2/TiO2/Ru
 tile/Yambo/SAVE',
  wf_collect=.true.,
  verbosity='high',
   /
  &system
  ibrav=6, celldm(1)=8.674, celldm(3)=0.645,  nat=6, ntyp=2,
  ecutwfc = 50.0,
  occupations='fixed',
  nspin=1, nbnd=100,
  force_symmorphic=.true.,
  nosym=.false.,
   /
  &electrons
  diago_full_acc = .true.,
  diago_thr_init = 1.0d-4,
  diagonalization='cg',
   /
  ATOMIC_SPECIES
   Ti  47.867  Ti.UPF
   O   15.99   O.UPF
  ATOMIC_POSITIONS bohr
   Ti0. 0. 0.
   Ti6.13831976 0. 2.79501944
   O-2.38657872 0. 2.79501944
   O 2.38657872 0. 2.79501944
   O 6.13831976-2.38657872 0.
   O 6.13831976 2.38657872 0.
  K_POINTS automatic
   8 8 8 0 0 0



I would really appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance,
Kopinjol Baishya
Graduate Student,
Materials Modelling Group,
Deptt. of Physics,
University of Illinois,
Chicago,
IL 60607
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://pwscf.org/pipermail/pw_forum/attachments/20130102/adfc04e5/attachment.html