Re: The last straw

[Malcolm Fitzgerald]

Alan,

NetBeans v11 is an excellent IDE for PHP development. I use it everyday for 
that purpose. 


Malcolm



> On 29/09/2019, at 4:05 AM, Alan Cameron 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>  
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++ and 
> PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was dropped 
> from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this list with 
> increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let alone C, C++.
>  
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging from 
> some sort of common ground.
>  
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can stand 
> the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there are any 
> commercial users left using NetBeans.
>  
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with the 
> Apache name.
>  
> Goodbye.
>  
> From Alan Cameron
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com 
> 

Re: The last straw

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 5:05 PM Alan Cameron
 wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>

You're referring to someone whose problem isn't JavaFX or anything else --
other than that he's been struggling to start up NetBeans itself and all
his other issues stem from that.

Gj




>
>
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++
> and PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was
> dropped from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this
> list with increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let
> alone C, C++.
>
>
>
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging
> from some sort of common ground.
>
>
>
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can
> stand the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there
> are any commercial users left using NetBeans.
>
>
>
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with
> the Apache name.
>
>
>
> Goodbye.
>
>
>
> From Alan Cameron
>
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com
>
>
>

Re: The last straw

[Emilian Bold]

Curious why you mean by "the organization" and what you think should happen
more concretely.

--emi

sâm., 28 sept. 2019, 18:05 Alan Cameron
 a scris:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>
>
>
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++
> and PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was
> dropped from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this
> list with increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let
> alone C, C++.
>
>
>
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging
> from some sort of common ground.
>
>
>
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can
> stand the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there
> are any commercial users left using NetBeans.
>
>
>
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with
> the Apache name.
>
>
>
> Goodbye.
>
>
>
> From Alan Cameron
>
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com
>
>
>

Re: The last straw

[Thomas Wolf]

Cameron,
I think you’re severely mischaracterizing the situation - NB hasn’t lost its 
way, but it has lost corporate sponsorship.

In the old days, Sun, flush with cash and a desire to promote Java, bought the 
little startup from Europe and provided the financial resources to make it  
flourish.  I think the turning point for NB came when Oracle bought Sun.   I 
think Java in general and NB in particular weren’t important to the Database 
giant.  Java itself didn’t suffer much as it had become one of the top 
languages of the world and millions of developers and thousands of 
organizations depended on it and were, thus, willing to support its continued 
growth.  But NB, even in the days of Sun, had to compete with other IDEs - 
initially Symantec’s Visual Cafe and later IntelliJ and Eclipse.  The latter, 
“free” like NB, became the 800lb gorilla in the room.  Always supported by IBM 
and then also other companies.  But NB managed to hold its own until Oracle 
decided to no longer support it at the level it needed.  IMO, the spin-off to 
Apache was just Oracle trying to shed itself of this “cost center” and try to 
have the folks that use NB become more responsible for its future.

I applaud the devs who came from Sun & Oracle to continue to diligently direct 
NB’s development and future.  But it’s up to to its users to make this work.  
If you need a feature, don’t simply complain about it not being there - help 
develop it!  Otherwise you’re really just a whining freeloader.

If you helped work to make NB better, goodbye.  Otherwise, goodbye and good 
riddance.

Tom Wolf
(another freeloader - but one who’s not whining.)

> On Sep 28, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Alan Cameron 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.
>  
> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++ and 
> PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was dropped 
> from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this list with 
> increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let alone C, C++.
>  
> The organisation has lost its way and is not helping itself by diverging from 
> some sort of common ground.
>  
> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can stand 
> the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there are any 
> commercial users left using NetBeans.
>  
> I will be cancelling my subscription to this and other list tarred with the 
> Apache name.
>  
> Goodbye.
>  
> From Alan Cameron
> Please reply to alan.camer...@virginmedia.com
>  

Re: The last straw

[Glenn Holmer]

On 9/28/19 10:21 AM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 16:05, Alan Cameron
>  wrote:
>> A radical rethink is long overdue.
> 
> Apache *is* the radical rethink!

+1

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
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Re: The last straw

[Neil C Smith]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 at 16:05, Alan Cameron
 wrote:
> Walter Oney’s email is the last straw for me.

Why?!

> I had been a user of NetBeans 8.2 , using it for self-training in C, C++ and 
> PHP when this Apache incubation thing started and NetBeans 8.2 was dropped 
> from any sort of support. I have been watching the emails to this list with 
> increasing worries that it would never get around to PHP let alone C, C++.

PHP is in, C/C++ should be coming in 11.3 in January, or you can still
install the old plugins as far as I know.

> A radical rethink is long overdue and I wonder how commercial shops can stand 
> the ever mounting problems with this and that. I am surprised there are any 
> commercial users left using NetBeans.

Apache *is* the radical rethink!  Another radical rethink is the last
thing we need right now.

These things take time to happen, like any other community driven
software - I still wouldn't choose to use anything else.  But choose
to use what is right for you!

Best wishes,

Neil

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