Re: [Users] SSD trim support over a LUKS layer

2019-04-29 Thread CoolCold 
On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 3:53 PM Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT 
wrote:

> Why suggest LXC when we have OpenVZ 7? LXC is far behind, it has less
> features, it's more insecure, has a network standard that is a nightmare,
> etc.
>
As some members of this maillist mentioned, not everyone wants to change
into specific distribution comparing to general purpose distribution. I.e.
having Debian based instalation action as application server with, for
example some containers as an addition (my case). Moving to Centos based
world brings it's own complications for some people.

>
> I stopped using proxmox from the exact moment it removed OpenVZ support
> and replaced it with LXC.
>
> Now a happy customer with Virtuozzo 7 (the same as OpenVZ 7) using
> multiple NVMe drives with zero issues for almost 2 years.
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:42 AM Narcis Garcia 
> wrote:
>
>> Definitely we'll not migrate to Proxmox because it's suboptimal writing
>> this in OpenDocument format from an HTML5 interface.
>>
>>
>> El 28/4/19 a les 14:37, spameden ha escrit:
>> > No. It's impossible to use OpenVZ 6 with kernel 4.x, unless you put lots
>> > of effort to port their patches over the fresh kernel.
>> >
>> > The latest OpenVZ 6 kernel is 2.6.32-openvz-042stab136.1-amd64 and there
>> > is an issue with discard (it doesn't work).
>> >
>> > The discard issue has been fixed in 3.1-mainline kernel I think, you can
>> > look over newish RHEL kernel and try to port those changes to the old
>> > legacy OpenVZ 6 kernel.
>> >
>> > Regarding 4.x kernel:
>> > I'm using Proxmox with 4.x kernel (there is no OpenVZ) - only LXC
>> > containers and KVM - and there is no issue with discards at all.
>> > and what I also meant is: that you can easily migrate your existing
>> > OpenVZ containers to the Proxmox.
>> >
>> > Proxmox is based on latest Debian Stretch and specifically designed as a
>> > distro for contrainers.
>> > It has GUI, networking support (including openvswitch and other),
>> > KVM/LXC support and many other things (e.g. ceph/glusterfs support).
>> >
>> > Though, reading you again you've mentioned that you need a specific
>> > simfs quota in containers:
>> > most likely that would be impossible for unprivileged containers with
>> > directory storage (simfs analogue), althrough you could use qcow2 or
>> > LVM-based storage for containers.
>> >
>> >
>> > вс, 28 апр. 2019 г. в 09:47, Narcis Garcia > > >:
>> >
>> > El 27/4/19 a les 22:15, spameden ha escrit:
>> > >
>> > > сб, 27 апр. 2019 г. в 20:16, Narcis Garcia > > 
>> > > >>:
>> > >
>> > > I responded about OpenVZ/6 vs LXC, and Proxmox doesn't solve
>> > the Discard
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > What do you mean it doesn't solve the issue with discard? It does.
>> > >
>> > > Discard is perfectly working on Proxmox kernel 4.15.18-12-pve or
>> > even on
>> > > 4.13 kernel on DM-Crypt/LUKS setup.
>> > >
>> > > I'm using on all my servers DM-Crypt/LUKS + LVM so I know what I'm
>> > > talking about.
>> >
>> > Are you really using OpenVZ 6 with Linux kernel 4.x?
>> > Did you see any difficult with Discard when using other context with
>> > Linux 4.x ?
>> > ___
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users@openvz.org 
>> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users@openvz.org
>> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@openvz.org
>> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
> ___
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> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
Best regards,
[COOLCOLD-RIPN]
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Re: [Users] distro virtuozzo vs proxmox

2019-04-29 Thread Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT 
My 2 cents.

*OpenVZ vs LXC*
OpenVZ requires a patched kernel, but it's finally updated with OVZ7
OpenVZ is gradually porting its technology to mainline Linux kernel
OpenVZ has a more battle tested OS virtualization technology
LXC is still more insecure
LXC has a more complex way to configure networks

*Virtuozzo vs Proxmox*
Virtuozzo better integrates OpenVZ with its features and capabilities, like
live migration, distributed storage, live snapshots, etc
Virtuozzo is made and maintained by the same company that maintains OpenVZ
itself, and buying its licenses helps the future of OpenVZ
Virtuozzo includes specialized tools to manage and ensure the healthy of
your distributed storage cluster, subdivides it in different layers of
performance and purpose, etc
Virtuozzo has a great and responsive support team, in my experience
Virtuozzo enhanced KVM a lot, that provides more server density and
performance
Virtuozzo is one of the main KVM contributors, and contributes to other
projects as well, as Linux Kernel, OpenStack, etc
Proxmox was famous when offered OpenVZ on its platform (not offering
anymore, replacing it by LXC)
Proxmox is made and maintained by a company not related to OpenVZ project
itself
Proxmox has a great and responsive support team, in my experience

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:48 AM Narcis Garcia 
wrote:

> Yes, these are the right comparisons:
>
> OpenVZ vs LXC
> Virtuozzo distro vs Proxmox distro
> CentOS vs Debian vs Other general purpose distros
>
> + Interesting to know the support to run OpenVZ 7 on CentOS.
> It should be documented at OpenVZ wiki!
>
>
> El 29/4/19 a les 4:16, Website Solution - George ha escrit:
> >
> > From my understanding, Virtuozzo 7 (or OpenVZ 7) supports user quota
> > inside guest container.
> >
> > However, for unprivileged LXC guest, it does not support quota inside
> > container natively.
> >
> > It is important if we run the guest container for multiple end-users.
> >
> > (Privileged LXC guests support user quota inside container, but they
> > share the same root UID between guest and host, which implies some kind
> > of potential security)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29-Apr-19 3:55 AM, Jehan PROCACCIA wrote:
> >> regarding distros and virtuozzo vs proxmox (reason I modified the
> >> subject, orig: SSD trim support over a LUKS layer)
> >> I understand that it could be frustrating to rely on a dedidcated
> >> distro (virtuozzo 7), but I guess it comes with simplicity and
> >> consistency regarding set of packages and updates
> >> after all it's very similar to centos/rhel 7 as it is based on it, and
> >> if you wish , you could add openvz7 feature to native centos7 :
> >>
> https://enjoyko.blogspot.com/2018/05/how-to-install-openvz-7-to-centos-7.html
> >>
> >>
> >> I guess that https://wiki.openvz.org/Comparison is quite up to date as
> >> it dates from jan/2019
> >> but i am still wondering what technology virtuozzo 7 uses for
> >> containers if not LXC ?
> >>
> >> I'll be glad to know as I have regularly discussions between sysadmins
> >> around proxmox and virtuozzo , and finally it ends on debian vs
> >> centos/rhel !
> >>
> >> - Mail original -
> >> De: "Narcis Garcia" 
> >> À: "OpenVZ users" 
> >> Envoyé: Samedi 27 Avril 2019 19:19:43
> >> Objet: Re: [Users] SSD trim support over a LUKS layer
> >>
> >> The problem of Virtuozzo 7 for me is that this is a distro.
> >> I prefer to use general purpose distros, for many reasons around
> >> packaged software, community support, future plans and others.
> >>
> >>
> >> El 27/4/19 a les 19:09, Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT ha escrit:
> >>> LXC is far to be an option, IMHO.
> >>>
> >>> I'm happily using Virtuozzo 7 with multiple NVMe storages with zero
> >>> issues for more than a year.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 4:28 PM CoolCold  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  I believe to have fixes and backports like this in to legacy
> >>> version
> >>>  of product will not happen, and you should consider upgrading.
> >>>  Personally, I've upgraded to lxc.. it's quite primitive
> >>> comparing to
> >>>  ovz 6, but it's enough for my needs.
> >>>
> >>>  On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 17:49 spameden  >>>  > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Yes, it's an issue in kernel.
> >>>
> >>>  As dm-crypt/luks layer isn't passing TRIM to the underlying
> >>> device.
> >>>
> >>>  /boot is not encrypted that's why it works for you.
> >>>
> >>>  сб, 27 апр. 2019 г. в 11:11, Narcis Garcia
> >>>  mailto:informat...@actiu.net>>:
> >>>
> >>>  See in the case that /dev/sda1 (Directly mounted as Ext4
> on
> >>>  /boot) works with Trim/Discard.
> >>>  It's the sda2_crypt (layer over sda2) that is not detected
> >>>  to be trimmable. Devuan's stock kernel does.
> >>>
> >>>  CentOS issue #6548 may not be this same bug; I've tested
> >>> now
> >>>  with CentOS 6.8 with a similar (but not s

Re: [Users] SSD trim support over a LUKS layer

2019-04-29 Thread Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT 
Why suggest LXC when we have OpenVZ 7? LXC is far behind, it has less
features, it's more insecure, has a network standard that is a nightmare,
etc.

I stopped using proxmox from the exact moment it removed OpenVZ support and
replaced it with LXC.

Now a happy customer with Virtuozzo 7 (the same as OpenVZ 7) using multiple
NVMe drives with zero issues for almost 2 years.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:42 AM Narcis Garcia 
wrote:

> Definitely we'll not migrate to Proxmox because it's suboptimal writing
> this in OpenDocument format from an HTML5 interface.
>
>
> El 28/4/19 a les 14:37, spameden ha escrit:
> > No. It's impossible to use OpenVZ 6 with kernel 4.x, unless you put lots
> > of effort to port their patches over the fresh kernel.
> >
> > The latest OpenVZ 6 kernel is 2.6.32-openvz-042stab136.1-amd64 and there
> > is an issue with discard (it doesn't work).
> >
> > The discard issue has been fixed in 3.1-mainline kernel I think, you can
> > look over newish RHEL kernel and try to port those changes to the old
> > legacy OpenVZ 6 kernel.
> >
> > Regarding 4.x kernel:
> > I'm using Proxmox with 4.x kernel (there is no OpenVZ) - only LXC
> > containers and KVM - and there is no issue with discards at all.
> > and what I also meant is: that you can easily migrate your existing
> > OpenVZ containers to the Proxmox.
> >
> > Proxmox is based on latest Debian Stretch and specifically designed as a
> > distro for contrainers.
> > It has GUI, networking support (including openvswitch and other),
> > KVM/LXC support and many other things (e.g. ceph/glusterfs support).
> >
> > Though, reading you again you've mentioned that you need a specific
> > simfs quota in containers:
> > most likely that would be impossible for unprivileged containers with
> > directory storage (simfs analogue), althrough you could use qcow2 or
> > LVM-based storage for containers.
> >
> >
> > вс, 28 апр. 2019 г. в 09:47, Narcis Garcia  > >:
> >
> > El 27/4/19 a les 22:15, spameden ha escrit:
> > >
> > > сб, 27 апр. 2019 г. в 20:16, Narcis Garcia  > 
> > > >>:
> > >
> > > I responded about OpenVZ/6 vs LXC, and Proxmox doesn't solve
> > the Discard
> > >
> > >
> > > What do you mean it doesn't solve the issue with discard? It does.
> > >
> > > Discard is perfectly working on Proxmox kernel 4.15.18-12-pve or
> > even on
> > > 4.13 kernel on DM-Crypt/LUKS setup.
> > >
> > > I'm using on all my servers DM-Crypt/LUKS + LVM so I know what I'm
> > > talking about.
> >
> > Are you really using OpenVZ 6 with Linux kernel 4.x?
> > Did you see any difficult with Discard when using other context with
> > Linux 4.x ?
> > ___
> > Users mailing list
> > Users@openvz.org 
> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Users mailing list
> > Users@openvz.org
> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@openvz.org
> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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Re: [Users] SSD trim support over a LUKS layer

2019-04-29 Thread Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT 
I apologize for the duplicate message. I forgot that I had already sent a
message before.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:52 AM Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT <
pauloco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why suggest LXC when we have OpenVZ 7? LXC is far behind, it has less
> features, it's more insecure, has a network standard that is a nightmare,
> etc.
>
> I stopped using proxmox from the exact moment it removed OpenVZ support
> and replaced it with LXC.
>
> Now a happy customer with Virtuozzo 7 (the same as OpenVZ 7) using
> multiple NVMe drives with zero issues for almost 2 years.
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:42 AM Narcis Garcia 
> wrote:
>
>> Definitely we'll not migrate to Proxmox because it's suboptimal writing
>> this in OpenDocument format from an HTML5 interface.
>>
>>
>> El 28/4/19 a les 14:37, spameden ha escrit:
>> > No. It's impossible to use OpenVZ 6 with kernel 4.x, unless you put lots
>> > of effort to port their patches over the fresh kernel.
>> >
>> > The latest OpenVZ 6 kernel is 2.6.32-openvz-042stab136.1-amd64 and there
>> > is an issue with discard (it doesn't work).
>> >
>> > The discard issue has been fixed in 3.1-mainline kernel I think, you can
>> > look over newish RHEL kernel and try to port those changes to the old
>> > legacy OpenVZ 6 kernel.
>> >
>> > Regarding 4.x kernel:
>> > I'm using Proxmox with 4.x kernel (there is no OpenVZ) - only LXC
>> > containers and KVM - and there is no issue with discards at all.
>> > and what I also meant is: that you can easily migrate your existing
>> > OpenVZ containers to the Proxmox.
>> >
>> > Proxmox is based on latest Debian Stretch and specifically designed as a
>> > distro for contrainers.
>> > It has GUI, networking support (including openvswitch and other),
>> > KVM/LXC support and many other things (e.g. ceph/glusterfs support).
>> >
>> > Though, reading you again you've mentioned that you need a specific
>> > simfs quota in containers:
>> > most likely that would be impossible for unprivileged containers with
>> > directory storage (simfs analogue), althrough you could use qcow2 or
>> > LVM-based storage for containers.
>> >
>> >
>> > вс, 28 апр. 2019 г. в 09:47, Narcis Garcia > > >:
>> >
>> > El 27/4/19 a les 22:15, spameden ha escrit:
>> > >
>> > > сб, 27 апр. 2019 г. в 20:16, Narcis Garcia > > 
>> > > >>:
>> > >
>> > > I responded about OpenVZ/6 vs LXC, and Proxmox doesn't solve
>> > the Discard
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > What do you mean it doesn't solve the issue with discard? It does.
>> > >
>> > > Discard is perfectly working on Proxmox kernel 4.15.18-12-pve or
>> > even on
>> > > 4.13 kernel on DM-Crypt/LUKS setup.
>> > >
>> > > I'm using on all my servers DM-Crypt/LUKS + LVM so I know what I'm
>> > > talking about.
>> >
>> > Are you really using OpenVZ 6 with Linux kernel 4.x?
>> > Did you see any difficult with Discard when using other context with
>> > Linux 4.x ?
>> > ___
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users@openvz.org 
>> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users@openvz.org
>> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@openvz.org
>> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>
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Re: [Users] distro virtuozzo vs proxmox

2019-04-29 Thread Narcis Garcia 
Yes, these are the right comparisons:

OpenVZ vs LXC
Virtuozzo distro vs Proxmox distro
CentOS vs Debian vs Other general purpose distros

+ Interesting to know the support to run OpenVZ 7 on CentOS.
It should be documented at OpenVZ wiki!


El 29/4/19 a les 4:16, Website Solution - George ha escrit:
> 
> From my understanding, Virtuozzo 7 (or OpenVZ 7) supports user quota
> inside guest container.
> 
> However, for unprivileged LXC guest, it does not support quota inside
> container natively.
> 
> It is important if we run the guest container for multiple end-users.
> 
> (Privileged LXC guests support user quota inside container, but they
> share the same root UID between guest and host, which implies some kind
> of potential security)
> 
> 
> 
> On 29-Apr-19 3:55 AM, Jehan PROCACCIA wrote:
>> regarding distros and virtuozzo vs proxmox (reason I modified the
>> subject, orig: SSD trim support over a LUKS layer)
>> I understand that it could be frustrating to rely on a dedidcated
>> distro (virtuozzo 7), but I guess it comes with simplicity and
>> consistency regarding set of packages and updates
>> after all it's very similar to centos/rhel 7 as it is based on it, and
>> if you wish , you could add openvz7 feature to native centos7 :
>> https://enjoyko.blogspot.com/2018/05/how-to-install-openvz-7-to-centos-7.html
>>
>>
>> I guess that https://wiki.openvz.org/Comparison is quite up to date as
>> it dates from jan/2019
>> but i am still wondering what technology virtuozzo 7 uses for
>> containers if not LXC ?
>>
>> I'll be glad to know as I have regularly discussions between sysadmins
>> around proxmox and virtuozzo , and finally it ends on debian vs
>> centos/rhel !
>>
>> - Mail original -
>> De: "Narcis Garcia" 
>> À: "OpenVZ users" 
>> Envoyé: Samedi 27 Avril 2019 19:19:43
>> Objet: Re: [Users] SSD trim support over a LUKS layer
>>
>> The problem of Virtuozzo 7 for me is that this is a distro.
>> I prefer to use general purpose distros, for many reasons around
>> packaged software, community support, future plans and others.
>>
>>
>> El 27/4/19 a les 19:09, Paulo Coghi - Coghi IT ha escrit:
>>> LXC is far to be an option, IMHO.
>>>
>>> I'm happily using Virtuozzo 7 with multiple NVMe storages with zero
>>> issues for more than a year.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 4:28 PM CoolCold >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>  I believe to have fixes and backports like this in to legacy
>>> version
>>>  of product will not happen, and you should consider upgrading.
>>>  Personally, I've upgraded to lxc.. it's quite primitive
>>> comparing to
>>>  ovz 6, but it's enough for my needs.
>>>
>>>  On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 17:49 spameden >>  > wrote:
>>>
>>>  Yes, it's an issue in kernel.
>>>
>>>  As dm-crypt/luks layer isn't passing TRIM to the underlying
>>> device.
>>>
>>>  /boot is not encrypted that's why it works for you.
>>>
>>>  сб, 27 апр. 2019 г. в 11:11, Narcis Garcia
>>>  mailto:informat...@actiu.net>>:
>>>
>>>  See in the case that /dev/sda1 (Directly mounted as Ext4 on
>>>  /boot) works with Trim/Discard.
>>>  It's the sda2_crypt (layer over sda2) that is not detected
>>>  to be trimmable. Devuan's stock kernel does.
>>>
>>>  CentOS issue #6548 may not be this same bug; I've tested
>>> now
>>>  with CentOS 6.8 with a similar (but not same) result*:*
>>>
>>>  $ lsb_release -d
>>>  Description:    CentOS release 6.8 (Final)
>>>
>>>  $ uname -a
>>>  Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.32-642.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP
>>> Tue
>>>  May 10 17:27:01 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>>>
>>>  $ lsblk --discard /dev/sda
>>>  NAME
>>>  DISC-ALN DISC-GRAN DISC-MAX DISC-ZERO
>>>  sda
>>>  0  512B   2G 0
>>>  ├─sda1
>>>  0  512B   2G 0
>>>  └─sda2
>>>  0  512B   2G 0
>>>    └─luks-f691f48b-8556-487d-ac64-50daa99ed4c9 (dm-0)
>>>  0  512B   2G 0
>>>
>>>  $ cat /etc/crypttab
>>>  luks-f691f48b-8556-487d-ac64-50daa99ed4c9
>>>  UUID=f691f48b-8556-487d-ac64-50daa99ed4c9 none luks,discard
>>>
>>>  $ mount | grep -e discard
>>>  /dev/mapper/luks-f691f48b-8556-487d-ac64-50daa99ed4c9 on /
>>>  type ext4 (rw,discard)
>>>  /dev/sda1 on /boot type ext4 (rw,discard)
>>>
>>>  $ sudo fstrim /boot
>>>  # (same result as Devuan/1 and OpenVZ/6 kernel: success)
>>>
>>>  $ sudo fstrim /
>>>  fstrim: /: FITRIM ioctl failed: Operation not supported
>>>
>>>
>>>  El 26/4/19 a les 21:36, spameden ha escrit:
  Hi.

  I've asked this question ye

Re: [Users] SSD trim support over a LUKS layer

2019-04-29 Thread Narcis Garcia 
Definitely we'll not migrate to Proxmox because it's suboptimal writing
this in OpenDocument format from an HTML5 interface.


El 28/4/19 a les 14:37, spameden ha escrit:
> No. It's impossible to use OpenVZ 6 with kernel 4.x, unless you put lots
> of effort to port their patches over the fresh kernel.
> 
> The latest OpenVZ 6 kernel is 2.6.32-openvz-042stab136.1-amd64 and there
> is an issue with discard (it doesn't work).
> 
> The discard issue has been fixed in 3.1-mainline kernel I think, you can
> look over newish RHEL kernel and try to port those changes to the old
> legacy OpenVZ 6 kernel.
> 
> Regarding 4.x kernel:
> I'm using Proxmox with 4.x kernel (there is no OpenVZ) - only LXC
> containers and KVM - and there is no issue with discards at all.
> and what I also meant is: that you can easily migrate your existing
> OpenVZ containers to the Proxmox.
> 
> Proxmox is based on latest Debian Stretch and specifically designed as a
> distro for contrainers.
> It has GUI, networking support (including openvswitch and other),
> KVM/LXC support and many other things (e.g. ceph/glusterfs support).
> 
> Though, reading you again you've mentioned that you need a specific
> simfs quota in containers:
> most likely that would be impossible for unprivileged containers with
> directory storage (simfs analogue), althrough you could use qcow2 or
> LVM-based storage for containers.
> 
> 
> вс, 28 апр. 2019 г. в 09:47, Narcis Garcia  >:
> 
> El 27/4/19 a les 22:15, spameden ha escrit:
> >
> > сб, 27 апр. 2019 г. в 20:16, Narcis Garcia  
> > >>:
> >
> >     I responded about OpenVZ/6 vs LXC, and Proxmox doesn't solve
> the Discard
> >
> >
> > What do you mean it doesn't solve the issue with discard? It does.
> >
> > Discard is perfectly working on Proxmox kernel 4.15.18-12-pve or
> even on
> > 4.13 kernel on DM-Crypt/LUKS setup.
> >
> > I'm using on all my servers DM-Crypt/LUKS + LVM so I know what I'm
> > talking about.
> 
> Are you really using OpenVZ 6 with Linux kernel 4.x?
> Did you see any difficult with Discard when using other context with
> Linux 4.x ?
> ___
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> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> 
> 
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