Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-22 Thread Lior Vernia 


On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action 
> in 
> the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability: 
> webadmin 
> difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
> We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
> "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png") 
> which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the 
> reporter 
> (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ 
> was 
> the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
> properties 
> since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct 
> place, 
> in order to find that option.
> So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is 
> not 
> enough (comment #5).
> 
> Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down 
> menu in 
> the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
> "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
> This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another 
> concern 
> with this solution:
> would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or 
> upon 
> hover?
> 
> if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
> confusing 
> with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up.

If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, and the rest is just
explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.

> if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, 
> two 
> clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one 
> click 
> in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. 
> maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, 
> however 
> there may be some solutions for that:
> 
> one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the 
> actions 
> within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it 
> means that 
> there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.

That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.

> another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or 
> maybe only 
> the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order 
> to indicate 
> that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up 
> appear when 
> hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens 
> today with 
> the current details pop-up)
> 
> thoughts?

I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep
a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm
no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons.

It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar)
and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended,
Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or
most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions.

> 
> 
> Regards, 
> Einav
> 
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Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-22 Thread Jason Keltz 

On 08/22/2013 01:43 PM, Lior Vernia wrote:


On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:

Hi,

This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action in
the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability: 
webadmin
difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
"HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png")
which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the reporter
(comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ was
the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
properties
since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct 
place,
in order to find that option.
So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is 
not
enough (comment #5).

Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down menu 
in
the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
"HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another 
concern
with this solution:
would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or 
upon
hover?

if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
confusing
with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up.
The suggestion from Lior did include redesigning the tooltip frame to 
include an "Edit" command, which is certainly more intuitive than a 
pencil.   That being said, I do agree that the gear solution which has 
been proposed is *more* intuitive and honestly more in line with what I 
was expecting.  I didn't complain about Lior's response even though it 
didn't completely address my issue because it came from a designer, and 
I realized, looking at my desktop, that configurable elements often *do 
not* have hints that they are configurable.



If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, and the rest is just
explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.


if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, two
clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one 
click
in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion.
maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, 
however
there may be some solutions for that:

one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the 
actions
within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it 
means that
there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.

That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.


another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or maybe 
only
the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order to 
indicate
that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up 
appear when
hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens 
today with
the current details pop-up)

thoughts?

I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep
a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm
no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons.

It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar)
and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended,
Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or
most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions.
Having not used bridging/multiple VLANS prior to my experimentation with 
ovirt, it's always been the network interface itself that I have 
configured with IP/subnet/etc (eg. 
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0).  Most of my machines 
(hundreds) have single network interfaces, and I've never needed to use 
bonding/bridging/etc which kept my network configuration very simple.  
After experimenting with oVirt, and doing my share of reading, I 
certainly understand the concept of logical networks and their 
configuration with oVirt, and yes, it all makes a lot of sense NOW 
(well, except for the fact that really when it comes down to it, the 
Linux configuration for anything but basic networking is, in my opinion, 
anything but intuitive.)  Nonetheless, please keep in mind that a 
concept which might be completely crystal clear to someone who uses it 
on a daily basis might be a little less intuitive to someone who is 
using it for the first time.  Fortunately, I've got *plenty* of patience. :)


Regards,
Einav



Thanks for your help!

Jason.

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Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-22 Thread Karli Sjöberg 
tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:



On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action 
> in
> the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability: 
> webadmin
> difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
> We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
> "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png")
> which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the 
> reporter
> (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ 
> was
> the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
> properties
> since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct 
> place,
> in order to find that option.
> So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is 
> not
> enough (comment #5).
>
> Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down 
> menu in
> the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
> "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
> This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another 
> concern
> with this solution:
> would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or 
> upon
> hover?
>
> if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
> confusing
> with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up.

If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU,


Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo Frames 
is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you are capped at 
about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s).

/Karli



and the rest is just
explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.

> if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, 
> two
> clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one 
> click
> in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion.
> maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, 
> however
> there may be some solutions for that:
>
> one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the 
> actions
> within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it 
> means that
> there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.

That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.

> another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or 
> maybe only
> the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order 
> to indicate
> that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up 
> appear when
> hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens 
> today with
> the current details pop-up)
>
> thoughts?

I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep
a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm
no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons.

It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar)
and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended,
Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or
most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions.

>
> 
> Regards,
> Einav
>
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--

Med Vänliga Hälsningar
---
Karli Sjöberg
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
Phone:  +46-(0)18-67 15 66
karli.sjob...@slu.se
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Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-23 Thread Koch (ovido) 
On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 13:04 -0400, Einav Cohen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the edit-action 
> in 
> the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability: 
> webadmin 
> difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
> We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
> "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png") 
> which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the 
> reporter 
> (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the BZ 
> was 
> the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
> properties 
> since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct 
> place, 
> in order to find that option.
> So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution is 
> not 
> enough (comment #5).
> 
> Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down 
> menu in 
> the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
> "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
> This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another 
> concern 
> with this solution:
> would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click or 
> upon 
> hover?


In my opinion this is the better solution but still not enough. Let me 
explain why:

There are 4 reasons (or did I forgot one?) why I want to change the network 
configuration:
1. Add new logical networks
2. Remove logical networks
3. Change ip addresses of 1 (or more) logical networks
4. Configure/change bonding options

Ad 1 and 2: In the Setup hosts networks dialog the behavior is ok - 
improvements should be done when creating new logical networks.
I think neutron integration will improve this...

Ad 3:
When changing (or adding) an ip address I first have to verify what's the
current ip configuration of this host.
If I don't use dns/static hosts entry I can see the current ip address
of ovirtmgmt host in hosts tab, but for all other networks or when
having hostnames configured I have to go to the "Network Interfaces"
subtab of each host. In this tab I can already see the address I (properly)
want to change or the interface where I want to add a new ip address.

So why not allowing to edit ip addresses here?
I don't mean going back to oVirt 3.0 style but just make existing ip
addresses changeable here already by making the existing ip address 
clickable and open the edit network window.

Bondings/logical networks should stay in setup host networks and there
should also be a gear icon to edit/remove logical networks like in the 
DropDownMenu.png screenshot which reveals when clicking on it. Then you
have the possibility to change the ip config wherever it's easier for you.

I also vote for removing the tooltip on logical networks and instead display
the ip address (and maybe MTU) below the logical network name.
e.g.
ovirtmgmt (VLAN 1)
IP: 192.168.0.1
-
logical network 1
-
logical network 2

As ip addresses will most likely be configured only for ovirtmgmt, display
network and storage network this dialog wouldn't get floated with too many
information...

Ad 4: Add a gear icon in the same way as for 3, but keep the ability to
change the configuration only in "Setup hosts networks" dialog, no need imho 
in "Network Interfaces" subtab...


Regards,
René


> 
> if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
> confusing 
> with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details pop-up.
> 
> if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical network, 
> two 
> clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to one 
> click 
> in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. 
> maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, 
> however 
> there may be some solutions for that:
> 
> one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. the 
> actions 
> within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it 
> means that 
> there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.
> 
> another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or 
> maybe only 
> the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in order 
> to indicate 
> that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's pop-up 
> appear when 
> hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as happens 
> today with 
> the current details pop-up)
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> Einav
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users




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Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-23 Thread Lior Vernia 


On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
> tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
>>
>> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > 
>> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the 
>> > edit-action in 
>> > the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability: 
>> > webadmin 
>> > difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
>> > We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
>> > "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png") 
>> > which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the 
>> > reporter 
>> > (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the 
>> > BZ was 
>> > the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
>> > properties 
>> > since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the 
>> > correct place, 
>> > in order to find that option.
>> > So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution 
>> > is not 
>> > enough (comment #5).
>> > 
>> > Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down 
>> > menu in 
>> > the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
>> > "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
>> > This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about 
>> > another concern 
>> > with this solution:
>> > would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click 
>> > or upon 
>> > hover?
>> > 
>> > if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
>> > confusing 
>> > with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details 
>> > pop-up.
>>
>> If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
>> proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
>> tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, 
> 
> Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo
> Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you
> are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s).

And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context?
It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my
understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host.

I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at
guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the
MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that
would be easy to figure out anyway.

> 
> /Karli
> 
>> and the rest is just
>> explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.
>>
>> > if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical 
>> > network, two 
>> > clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to 
>> > one click 
>> > in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. 
>> > maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, 
>> > however 
>> > there may be some solutions for that:
>> > 
>> > one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. 
>> > the actions 
>> > within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it 
>> > means that 
>> > there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.
>>
>> That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.
>>
>> > another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or 
>> > maybe only 
>> > the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in 
>> > order to indicate 
>> > that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's 
>> > pop-up appear when 
>> > hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as 
>> > happens today with 
>> > the current details pop-up)
>> > 
>> > thoughts?
>>
>> I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
>> However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep
>> a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
>> the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm
>> no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons.
>>
>> It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar)
>> and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended,
>> Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or
>> most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions.
>>
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Regards, 
>> > Einav
>> > 
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org 
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> 
> -- 
> 
> Med Vänliga Hälsningar
> ---
> Karli Sjöberg
> Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
> Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
> S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
> Phone:  +46-(0)18-67 15 66
> karli.sjob...@slu.se 
> 
___

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-23 Thread Karli Sjöberg 
fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:



On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
> tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
>>
>> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the 
>> > edit-action in
>> > the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability: 
>> > webadmin
>> > difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
>> > We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
>> > "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png")
>> > which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the 
>> > reporter
>> > (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the 
>> > BZ was
>> > the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
>> > properties
>> > since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the 
>> > correct place,
>> > in order to find that option.
>> > So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution 
>> > is not
>> > enough (comment #5).
>> >
>> > Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down 
>> > menu in
>> > the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
>> > "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
>> > This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about 
>> > another concern
>> > with this solution:
>> > would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click 
>> > or upon
>> > hover?
>> >
>> > if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
>> > confusing
>> > with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details 
>> > pop-up.
>>
>> If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
>> proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
>> tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU,
>
> Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo
> Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you
> are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s).

And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context?
It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my
understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host.


No I agree, it´s not helpful at all, maybe even destructive. Why allow admins 
to mess around with different MTU's on different Hosts for the same network. 
Since MTU is set in the switches, the MTU must be the same for all Hosts on the 
same network, or one could wreak all kinds of havoc. What I was saying is not 
to forget that, for admins, MTU is a big deal, and makes a big difference in 
performance, is all.




I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at
guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the
MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that
would be easy to figure out anyway.

>
> /Karli
>
>> and the rest is just
>> explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.
>>
>> > if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical 
>> > network, two
>> > clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed to 
>> > one click
>> > in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion.
>> > maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is acceptable, 
>> > however
>> > there may be some solutions for that:
>> >
>> > one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, i.e. 
>> > the actions
>> > within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however it 
>> > means that
>> > there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.
>>
>> That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.
>>
>> > another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon (or 
>> > maybe only
>> > the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in 
>> > order to indicate
>> > that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's 
>> > pop-up appear when
>> > hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as 
>> > happens today with
>> > the current details pop-up)
>> >
>> > thoughts?
>>
>> I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
>> However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep
>> a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
>> the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; I'm
>> no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons.
>>
>> It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action bar)
>> and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended,
>> Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person or
>> most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions.
>>
>> >
>> > 
>> > Regards,
>> > Einav
>> >
>> ___
>> Users mailing list

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-23 Thread Lior Vernia 


On 23/08/13 15:46, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
> fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
>>
>> On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
>> > tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
>> >>
>> >> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> > 
>> >> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the 
>> >> > edit-action in 
>> >> > the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - 
>> >> > usability: webadmin 
>> >> > difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
>> >> > We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached 
>> >> > "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png") 
>> >> > which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the 
>> >> > reporter 
>> >> > (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in 
>> >> > the BZ was 
>> >> > the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection 
>> >> > properties 
>> >> > since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the 
>> >> > correct place, 
>> >> > in order to find that option.
>> >> > So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this 
>> >> > solution is not 
>> >> > enough (comment #5).
>> >> > 
>> >> > Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" 
>> >> > drop-down menu in 
>> >> > the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached 
>> >> > "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
>> >> > This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about 
>> >> > another concern 
>> >> > with this solution:
>> >> > would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon 
>> >> > click or upon 
>> >> > hover?
>> >> > 
>> >> > if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be somewhat 
>> >> > confusing 
>> >> > with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network details 
>> >> > pop-up.
>> >>
>> >> If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
>> >> proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
>> >> tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, 
>> > 
>> > Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo
>> > Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you
>> > are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s).
>>
>> And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context?
>> It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my
>> understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host.
> 
> No I agree, it´s not helpful at all, maybe even destructive. Why allow
> admins to mess around with different MTU's on different Hosts for the
> same network. Since MTU is set in the switches, the MTU must be the same
> for all Hosts on the same network, or one could wreak all kinds of
> havoc. What I was saying is not to forget that, for admins, MTU is a big
> deal, and makes a big difference in performance, is all.
> 

Worry not :) I was only referring to the Host Setup Networks tooltip
displayed when hovering over a network, I probably should have phrased
it better.

>>
>> I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at
>> guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the
>> MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that
>> would be easy to figure out anyway.
>>
>> > 
>> > /Karli
>> > 
>> >> and the rest is just
>> >> explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.
>> >>
>> >> > if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical 
>> >> > network, two 
>> >> > clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as opposed 
>> >> > to one click 
>> >> > in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. 
>> >> > maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is 
>> >> > acceptable, however 
>> >> > there may be some solutions for that:
>> >> > 
>> >> > one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, 
>> >> > i.e. the actions 
>> >> > within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, however 
>> >> > it means that 
>> >> > there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.
>> >>
>> >> That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.
>> >>
>> >> > another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon 
>> >> > (or maybe only 
>> >> > the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just in 
>> >> > order to indicate 
>> >> > that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's 
>> >> > pop-up appear when 
>> >> > hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, as 
>> >> > happens today with 
>> >> > the current details pop-up)
>> >> > 
>> >> > thoughts?
>> >>
>> >> I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
>> >> However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to keep
>> >> a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
>> >> the left-hand-s

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-23 Thread Einav Cohen 
[top posting]

Hi René, thanks for the feedback.
I will soon send an e-mail summarizing all of the feedback regarding the 
main issue.
In your particular feedback, you have mentioned a couple of potential 
improvements that are not directly related to the main issue. These are:

(1)
> So why not allowing to edit ip addresses here?
> I don't mean going back to oVirt 3.0 style but just make existing ip
> addresses changeable here already by making the existing ip address
> clickable and open the edit network window.
[IIUC: 'here' == Logical Networks sub-tab in the Hosts main tab]

Can you please file a new BZ on that issue?
[https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=oVirt]

(2)
> display the ip address (and maybe MTU) below the logical network name.
> e.g.
> ovirtmgmt (VLAN 1)
> IP: 192.168.0.1
> -
> logical network 1
> -
> logical network 2

currently, the appropriate location for this information is the details-pop-up 
that is displayed upon hovering on the logical network; however, in case we 
will 
decide to get rid of that pop-up, your suggestion above should be taken into 
consideration, and it would be great if you will file a new BZ on that issue as 
well. 


Thanks,
Einav

- Original Message -
> From: "René Koch (ovido)" 
> To: "Einav Cohen" 
> Cc: "info" , "Eldan Hildesheim" , 
> "users" , j...@cs.yorku.ca
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:34:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability 
> [ux][BZ#984737]
> 
> On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 13:04 -0400, Einav Cohen wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the
> > edit-action in
> > the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - usability:
> > webadmin
> > difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
> > We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached
> > "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png")
> > which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by the
> > reporter
> > (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described in the
> > BZ was
> > the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the connection
> > properties
> > since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the correct
> > place,
> > in order to find that option.
> > So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this solution
> > is not
> > enough (comment #5).
> > 
> > Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" drop-down
> > menu in
> > the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached
> > "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
> > This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about another
> > concern
> > with this solution:
> > would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon click
> > or upon
> > hover?
> 
> 
> In my opinion this is the better solution but still not enough. Let me
> explain why:
> 
> There are 4 reasons (or did I forgot one?) why I want to change the network
> configuration:
> 1. Add new logical networks
> 2. Remove logical networks
> 3. Change ip addresses of 1 (or more) logical networks
> 4. Configure/change bonding options
> 
> Ad 1 and 2: In the Setup hosts networks dialog the behavior is ok -
> improvements should be done when creating new logical networks.
> I think neutron integration will improve this...
> 
> Ad 3:
> When changing (or adding) an ip address I first have to verify what's the
> current ip configuration of this host.
> If I don't use dns/static hosts entry I can see the current ip address
> of ovirtmgmt host in hosts tab, but for all other networks or when
> having hostnames configured I have to go to the "Network Interfaces"
> subtab of each host. In this tab I can already see the address I (properly)
> want to change or the interface where I want to add a new ip address.
> 
> So why not allowing to edit ip addresses here?
> I don't mean going back to oVirt 3.0 style but just make existing ip
> addresses changeable here already by making the existing ip address
> clickable and open the edit network window.
> 
> Bondings/logical networks should stay in setup host networks and there
> should also be a gear icon to edit/remove logical networks like in the
> DropDownMenu.png screenshot which reveals when clicking on it. Then you
> have the possibility to change the ip config wherever it's easier for you.
> 
> I also vote for removing the tooltip on logical networks and instead disp

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-25 Thread Alissa Bonas 
Hi Einav,

I think that the dropdown menu that is always visible (option 1.a) is better - 
it's more clear.
Also, not related to the raised issue - the 2 icons of 'usage' ('management' 
and 'VM') also resemble buttons because of their black frame , especially since 
they are located close to the "gear" icon (which opens the edit/remove). I 
suggest to remove the black frame and leave just the icons to reduce the 
confusion.

- Original Message -
> From: "Einav Cohen" 
> To: "users" 
> Cc: "info" , "Eldan Hildesheim" , 
> j...@cs.yorku.ca
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability 
> [ux][BZ#984737]
> 
> [top posting]
> 
> Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated!
> I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so
> far, towards converging to a concrete solution.
> 
> your feedback will be highly appreciated.
> 
> (1) [open issue] actions availability indication:
> 
>   (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached
>   HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png)
>   (b) visible only upon hover (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png)
>   (c) combination (see attached
>   SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png)
> 
> [ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains /
> doesn't
> contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon
> hover /
> upon click, etc.]
> 
> I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy;
> (a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the
> original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully
> resolved in solution (b).
> according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the
> people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they support
> (a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am].
> 
> (2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical network
> is needed / not needed.
> we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like
> to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in
> mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I
> assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortable
> with getting rid of all of these?
> 
> (3) [open issue] actions availability upon click vs. upon hover.
> [note: this is not about the indication mentioned in (1) (e.g. gear icon),
> but about actually showing the available actions (edit, remove, etc.).
> revealing the available actions upon click would mean that two clicks will
> be needed in order to edit a logical network, for example, vs. one click
> that will be needed in the current state / hover solution.
> moreover, if everyone are comfortable with removing the details-pop-up upon
> hover (see (2)), then there would be no hover conflicts in that sense.
> [even if we decide to keep the details-pop-up - we can include the actions
> in it, just like demonstrated in HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png, so there
> will be only one consistent "behavior" upon hovering on the logical network
> area]
> 
> my suggestion:
> 
> add a static action indication (e.g. gear icon), and upon hovering on it
> (or hovering on the logical network rectangle in general), the actions-pop
> -up (which may or may not contain also some network details - again, see (2))
> will appear [see attached HostSetupNetworks-EinavSuggestion.png]
> 
> * NOTE: Although we are discussing mainly logical networks, the solution (or
> the relevant parts of it) should be applied also to Bonds and NICs within
> the same dialog.
> 
> "+1"s / "-1"s / comments / additional suggestions are welcome.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Einav
> 
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Karli Sjöberg" 
> > To: "Lior Vernia" 
> > Cc: "Einav Cohen" , "info" , "Eldan
> > Hildesheim" ,
> > j...@cs.yorku.ca, "users" 
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:46:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
> > [ux][BZ#984737]
> > 
> > fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
> > > tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
> > >>
> > >> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of fi

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-25 Thread Eldan Hildesheim 
Hi,
The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the "purpose 
network icon" (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should 
understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should interfere 
the understanding of this purpose. 
1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be 
static - it should be shown only in rollover:
It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and not 
having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line in the  
grid as well).
2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box and 
you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP.
Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together.
But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can eliminated 
the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover)
Eldan


- Original Message -
From: "Einav Cohen" 
To: "users" 
Cc: "Lior Vernia" , "info" , "Eldan 
Hildesheim" , j...@cs.yorku.ca, "Karli Sjöberg" 
, "René Koch (ovido)" , "Malini Rao" 

Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability 
[ux][BZ#984737]

[top posting]

Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated!
I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so 
far, towards converging to a concrete solution. 

your feedback will be highly appreciated.

(1) [open issue] actions availability indication: 

  (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached 
HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png)
  (b) visible only upon hover (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png)
  (c) combination (see attached SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png)

[ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains / 
doesn't 
contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon hover 
/ 
upon click, etc.]

I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy;
(a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the 
original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully 
resolved in solution (b).
according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the 
people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they support 
(a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am].

(2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical network 
is needed / not needed.
we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like 
to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in 
mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I 
assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortable 
with getting rid of all of these?

(3) [open issue] actions availability upon click vs. upon hover.
[note: this is not about the indication mentioned in (1) (e.g. gear icon), 
but about actually showing the available actions (edit, remove, etc.).
revealing the available actions upon click would mean that two clicks will 
be needed in order to edit a logical network, for example, vs. one click 
that will be needed in the current state / hover solution.
moreover, if everyone are comfortable with removing the details-pop-up upon 
hover (see (2)), then there would be no hover conflicts in that sense.
[even if we decide to keep the details-pop-up - we can include the actions 
in it, just like demonstrated in HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png, so there 
will be only one consistent "behavior" upon hovering on the logical network 
area]

my suggestion:

add a static action indication (e.g. gear icon), and upon hovering on it 
(or hovering on the logical network rectangle in general), the actions-pop
-up (which may or may not contain also some network details - again, see (2)) 
will appear [see attached HostSetupNetworks-EinavSuggestion.png]

* NOTE: Although we are discussing mainly logical networks, the solution (or 
the relevant parts of it) should be applied also to Bonds and NICs within 
the same dialog.

"+1"s / "-1"s / comments / additional suggestions are welcome.


Thanks,
Einav

- Original Message -
> From: "Karli Sjöberg" 
> To: "Lior Vernia" 
> Cc: "Einav Cohen" , "info" , "Eldan 
> Hildesheim" ,
> j...@cs.yorku.ca, "users" 
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:46:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability 
> [ux][BZ#984737]
> 
> fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
> 
> 
> 
> On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
> > tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
> >>
> >> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
> >>

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-26 Thread Einav Cohen 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Eldan Hildesheim" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:41:55 AM
> 
> Hi,
> The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the "purpose
> network icon" (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should
> understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should interfere
> the understanding of this purpose.
> 1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be
> static - it should be shown only in rollover:
> It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and
> not having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line
> in the  grid as well).

again - reminding the original subject of my thread / original pain-point 
mentioned 
in the description of BZ#984737: the user had a hard time finding the edit icon 
in 
the first place. Replacing a tiny pencil icon with a tiny gear icon (but still 
displaying it only upon hover) kind-of misses the entire point IMO.
a static indication will be helpful in this case.

[users: it this is NOT a real pain point - please let us know]

Moreover, the fact that the area on the right-hand side of the 
network-rectangle 
was made originally only for read-only "purpose" icons is OK, but it doesn't 
mean 
that we cannot change that. Alissa made a point about removing the rectangles 
around 
the "purpose" icons (see attached) with which I agree - it will make them look 
less 
like "buttons" and more like read-only icons.
if we will graphically distinguish the gear icon (e.g. separator, border, etc.) 
so 
that it wouldn't be mistakenly considered as another "purpose" icon, but as a 
button, 
we wouldn't a problem.

> 2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box and
> you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP.
> Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together.

was there a sketch that you intended to attach? or did you refer to one of the 
attachments in one of the previous e-mails in the thread?

> But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can
> eliminated the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover)

I assume that you mean that gear + arrow will appear upon rollover, not that 
gear + arrow will always be displayed and the actual available actions (edit, 
remove) will appear upon hover (which is what I suggested).
Which means that in your suggestion - actual available actions (edit, remove) 
will appear only upon mouse-click (which means that in order to edit a network, 
two clicks will be required, instead of one today / my suggestion)?

> Eldan
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Einav Cohen" 
> To: "users" 
> Cc: "Lior Vernia" , "info" , "Eldan
> Hildesheim" , j...@cs.yorku.ca, "Karli Sjöberg"
> , "René Koch (ovido)" , "Malini Rao"
> 
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
> [ux][BZ#984737]
> 
> [top posting]
> 
> Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated!
> I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so
> far, towards converging to a concrete solution.
> 
> your feedback will be highly appreciated.
> 
> (1) [open issue] actions availability indication:
> 
>   (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached
>   HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png)
>   (b) visible only upon hover (see attached HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png)
>   (c) combination (see attached
>   SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png)
> 
> [ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains /
> doesn't
> contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon
> hover /
> upon click, etc.]
> 
> I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy;
> (a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the
> original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully
> resolved in solution (b).
> according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the
> people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they support
> (a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am].
> 
> (2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical network
> is needed / not needed.
> we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like
> to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in
> mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I
> assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortab

Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

2013-08-26 Thread Malini Rao 

- Original Message -
> From: "Einav Cohen" 
> To: "Eldan Hildesheim" 
> Cc: "info" , "users" , j...@cs.yorku.ca, 
> "Malini Rao" , "Lior
> Vernia" , "Karli Sjöberg" , "René 
> Koch (ovido)" 
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:48:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability 
> [ux][BZ#984737]
> 
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Eldan Hildesheim" 
> > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:41:55 AM
> > 
> > Hi,
> > The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the
> > "purpose
> > network icon" (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should
> > understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should
> > interfere
> > the understanding of this purpose.
> > 1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be
> > static - it should be shown only in rollover:
> > It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and
> > not having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line
> > in the  grid as well).
> 
> again - reminding the original subject of my thread / original pain-point
> mentioned
> in the description of BZ#984737: the user had a hard time finding the edit
> icon in
> the first place. Replacing a tiny pencil icon with a tiny gear icon (but
> still
> displaying it only upon hover) kind-of misses the entire point IMO.
> a static indication will be helpful in this case.
> 
> [users: it this is NOT a real pain point - please let us know]
> 
> Moreover, the fact that the area on the right-hand side of the
> network-rectangle
> was made originally only for read-only "purpose" icons is OK, but it doesn't
> mean
> that we cannot change that. Alissa made a point about removing the rectangles
> around
> the "purpose" icons (see attached) with which I agree - it will make them
> look less
> like "buttons" and more like read-only icons.
> if we will graphically distinguish the gear icon (e.g. separator, border,
> etc.) so
> that it wouldn't be mistakenly considered as another "purpose" icon, but as a
> button,
> we wouldn't a problem.

MR: I agree that removing the boxes around the read only informational labels 
will help in distinguishing an action from a label and the separator is also a 
great idea. I understand Eldan's thinking in terms of revealing the Actions on 
rollover but I think given that this is a dense graphic screen with lots of 
visual elements, users may be finding it hard to detect a tiny addition in the 
form of a icon. For this reason, I suggested this to be static. 

> 
> > 2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box
> > and
> > you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP.
> > Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together.
> 
> was there a sketch that you intended to attach? or did you refer to one of
> the
> attachments in one of the previous e-mails in the thread?
> 
> > But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can
> > eliminated the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover)
> 
> I assume that you mean that gear + arrow will appear upon rollover, not that
> gear + arrow will always be displayed and the actual available actions (edit,
> remove) will appear upon hover (which is what I suggested).
> Which means that in your suggestion - actual available actions (edit, remove)
> will appear only upon mouse-click (which means that in order to edit a
> network,
> two clicks will be required, instead of one today / my suggestion)?
> 
> > Eldan
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Einav Cohen" 
> > To: "users" 
> > Cc: "Lior Vernia" , "info" , "Eldan
> > Hildesheim" , j...@cs.yorku.ca, "Karli Sjöberg"
> > , "René Koch (ovido)" , "Malini Rao"
> > 
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
> > [ux][BZ#984737]
> > 
> > [top posting]
> > 
> > Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated!
> > I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so
> > far, towards converging to a concrete solution.
> > 
> > your feedback will be highly appreciated.
> > 
> > (1) [open issue] actions availability indication:
> > 
> >   (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see a