[SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
Hi folks, we are in a review process why we decided to use SOGo and why we are not using MS Exchange. We would like to emphasise our arguments with some use cases and numbers from other users. So it would be great to get some numbers from you like how many users at your site use SOGo, what kind of company / institution are you and what are your reasons in short why you use SOGo. May be you have some arguments why you do not use MS Exchange? Or any other Groupware. E.G. we came from HORDE and we primarily have linux in our server environment. Postfix, dovcot. We support multiple desktop operation systems like Windows, OS X, iOS. Currently we have about 600 users. SOGo offers all features we currently need, works fine and is less expensive than a Exchange installation to us. Thanks for feedback and regards . Götz -- Götz Reinicke IT-Koordinator Tel. +49 7141 969 82420 E-Mail goetz.reini...@filmakademie.de Filmakademie Baden-Württemberg GmbH Akademiehof 10 71638 Ludwigsburg www.filmakademie.de Eintragung Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 205016 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Jürgen Walter MdL Staatssekretär im Ministerium für Wissenschaft, Forschung und Kunst Baden-Württemberg Geschäftsführer: Prof. Thomas Schadt smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
Hello We use Sogo for ours customers size from arround 20 account to 9000, with postfix and ldap (wiki.sogxmail.org) one question you must have : Is outlook is mandatory If yes sorry but Outlook goes well ONLY with exchange. all plugins , connector are not managables for a big deployment and makes Outlook unstable. About openchange for me it is not mature, looks like an alpha developpement with many limitations and if someone us it in production with 100 or 200 customers tell us ! Maybe Outlook with ActiveSync but for now we didn t test it and we don t know what functionalities are missing. If no Thunderbird lightning goes well with Sogo and have the same functionalities than an Outlook. You can authenticate Sogo and Mail againt an AD it works well (see wiki.sogxmail.org) Jitsi as client with Jabber is a good alternative to Links (see wiki.sogxmail.org). For mobile world : Caldav and Carddav are the best compared at activesync on IOS it is native , on Android with DavDroid it works very well . The only thing you must create 3 accounts on the device (1 Imaps/smtps for emails, 1 for Calendars (caldav) and 1 for Contacts (Carddav) with MDM is not a problem to provision that. The Sogo Webmail is more powerful than Outook web Access. I ve got some customers who use only it. Generaly We use Mailcleaner as Frontal relay . This project is really great and have a quanrantine who could be handled by the client ( web interface) and Sogxmail for the groupware server and Chat) For AV we use Clamav or Kaspersky If you wnt more details feel free to ask. Regards Le Jeudi 16 Juillet 2015 10:26 CEST, Götz Reinicke - IT Koordinator a écrit: Hi folks, we are in a review process why we decided to use SOGo and why we are not using MS Exchange. We would like to emphasise our arguments with some use cases and numbers from other users. So it would be great to get some numbers from you like how many users at your site use SOGo, what kind of company / institution are you and what are your reasons in short why you use SOGo. May be you have some arguments why you do not use MS Exchange? Or any other Groupware. E.G. we came from HORDE and we primarily have linux in our server environment. Postfix, dovcot. We support multiple desktop operation systems like Windows, OS X, iOS. Currently we have about 600 users. SOGo offers all features we currently need, works fine and is less expensive than a Exchange installation to us. Thanks for feedback and regards . Götz -- Götz Reinicke IT-Koordinator Tel. +49 7141 969 82420 E-Mail goetz.reini...@filmakademie.de Filmakademie Baden-Württemberg GmbH Akademiehof 10 71638 Ludwigsburg www.filmakademie.de Eintragung Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 205016 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Jürgen Walter MdL Staatssekretär im Ministerium für Wissenschaft, Forschung und Kunst Baden-Württemberg Geschäftsführer: Prof. Thomas Schadt -- Alain Abbas 11 rue Robert Schumann 54500 Vandoeuvre Tel : +333 83 18 02 70 skype: alain.abbas -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
Hi, We have evaluated Kolab but found it not stable, neither the community edition nor the enterprise edition. Too many bugs, a beta version of cyrus losing index files on a regular basis, stuck (zombie) processes, a setup routine which does not exchange the placeholder/variables in the config files, a version of 389-directory server with serious flaws etc. We did use it in production for a year, but after a while with heavy usage and with mailboxes with up to 200k mails we encountered lots of issues; users losing all of their contacts (or at least problems with syncing ... the files were on the server, however they disappeared on the mobile phone as well as in the webinterface), same problem with calendars. The documentation is not really straight forward and you have to do a lot of dirty hacks; too much dirty patches on roundcube that actually do not 100% work; even a scripted daemon that does content analysis (wallaced), but there exists 0 documentation and the daemon hangs once in a while. We also had issues with the admin interface somehow modifying the ldap schema. In the end: lots of troubles. My view on MS Exchange is biased since I strongly believe in open source, however in a project I have to use it. I don't like it, its bloated and very very slow, the Microsoft Smart Filtering really sucks and using the buggy relay connectors is just pure pain in the ass. Even with the old mailserver on the same GBit-switch we did not manage to get more than 5 mails/sec into MS Exchange (dovecot on a testserver did around 30). Lots of tools get timeout because its so slow (running new adequate hardware for about 80 users), e.g. the Xerox WorkCentre cannot send scans because establishing a connection to the server is too slow. IMAP support is under all critics, users moving folders around get error messages in thunderbird because they are still shown on the old places, so they have to delete the account and create a new one. The Outlook Web App (webinterface) is also not that userfriendly, losing some mails contents and mixing up some "conversations", also, when you delete some mails via webinterface they show up on IMAP for hours, it needs a long time to "synchronize". Search seems buggy because some mails are not found when you search a term. Gna, have to stop this here ... I just hate it. Now, SOGo: *) few bugs, most of them I can live with *) compared to Kolab: fast bug fixes and _stable_ releases *) fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight!!! *) Excellent documentation *) Good package management and straight forward lifecycle management (almost always upgrades without worries!) *) As mentioned elsewhere: I like the GUI, its like a desktop software ... I am a little worried about V3 that has to be "modern" - I think its difficult for all the functionality to stick to those design standards *) Modularity: use an awesome stack of nginx/apache, postfix/exim/qmail, dovecot/cyrus/courier, antispam filter, openldap/apache DS/389-Directoryservice, various other tools ... you get the idea ... and on top sogo One of the things I am missing most in SOGo is 2 factor authorization, like with yubi key or some other tools. Thats an interesting thread, hope we get some more opinions! best regards, infoomatic -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
Hi there, we are currently using Zarafa for us and our customers for about 3 years. In general it was running but I never was happy as there are a few closed source parts in Zarafa. Not because of the price (it's not expensive). The Outlook client often has issues (mostly shared calenders not showing) after Windows-Updates. Usually you need to wait a few days until there is a working release available from Zarafa. Other than that, Users usually never had an issue using Outlook as it looked like it was connected to Exchange for them expect an additional Zarafa tab. There is no carddav support by default, you have to integrate it yourself with sabre-zarafa, a plugin (not from Zarafa). The xmpp-Implementation never really worked. It just works if the lefthandside of your mail is also your xmpp login. The webapp is quiet slow and (imho) ugly, as they try to rebuild Outlook in the Browser a little bit... The updates were usually painless and without issues, but since their announcement about stopping the outlook client, i think the complete quality is not the same anymore. Outlook support was the main reason we were running Zarafa, as most of our customers use Outlook. But since that decision, we think there are better solutions. For me the main reasons for SOGo are: *) if you use MAPI you don't need buggy connectors *) multiple users from different sources (LDAP, SQL) are easy to implement if you have to *) a real, proven IMAP Server can be used (Zarafa has it's own, feature-less IMAP-Server, we love Dovecot) *) Thunderbird Plugin seem to work quiet well and can replace outlook in my opinion *) easy integrated backup and restore mechanisms *) great clean webinterface with good features, but not useless things. *) in the debian repos (mostly, if you don't need openchange) *) completely free software but there is support from inverse if you need *) upgrading (seems to be) easy and without issues We think about not using openchange for these reasons: *) you have to use the inverse samba package, so no repository package anymore *) openchange seems to have still issues and we believe we'll never get happy to provide "half of an exchange", so we try to convince our customers to use something that is working ;-) (please correct me if I am wrong) *) keep it simple... (imap, card- and caldav is something other clients can do as well) What I would love to see in SOGo is an integration of Owncloud in the Webmail, that would be nice and handy to store/attach files to messages. Regards Peter -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
I'm curious, would you agree with the other person who replied about issues with Openchange+Outlook? On 7/16/2015 6:29 PM, Infoomatic wrote: > Hi, > > We have evaluated Kolab but found it not stable, neither the community > edition nor the enterprise edition. Too many bugs, a beta version of cyrus > losing index files on a regular basis, stuck (zombie) processes, a setup > routine which does not exchange the placeholder/variables in the config > files, a version of 389-directory server with serious flaws etc. We did use > it in production for a year, but after a while with heavy usage and with > mailboxes with up to 200k mails we encountered lots of issues; users losing > all of their contacts (or at least problems with syncing ... the files were > on the server, however they disappeared on the mobile phone as well as in the > webinterface), same problem with calendars. The documentation is not really > straight forward and you have to do a lot of dirty hacks; too much dirty > patches on roundcube that actually do not 100% work; even a scripted daemon > that does content analysis (wallaced), but there exists 0 documentation and > the daemon hangs once in a while. We also had issues with the admin interface > somehow modifying the ldap schema. In the end: lots of troubles. > > My view on MS Exchange is biased since I strongly believe in open source, > however in a project I have to use it. I don't like it, its bloated and very > very slow, the Microsoft Smart Filtering really sucks and using the buggy > relay connectors is just pure pain in the ass. Even with the old mailserver > on the same GBit-switch we did not manage to get more than 5 mails/sec into > MS Exchange (dovecot on a testserver did around 30). Lots of tools get > timeout because its so slow (running new adequate hardware for about 80 > users), e.g. the Xerox WorkCentre cannot send scans because establishing a > connection to the server is too slow. IMAP support is under all critics, > users moving folders around get error messages in thunderbird because they > are still shown on the old places, so they have to delete the account and > create a new one. The Outlook Web App (webinterface) is also not that > userfriendly, losing some mails contents and mixing up some "conversations", > also, when you delete some mails via webinterface they show up on IMAP for > hours, it needs a long time to "synchronize". Search seems buggy because some > mails are not found when you search a term. Gna, have to stop this here ... I > just hate it. > > Now, SOGo: > *) few bugs, most of them I can live with > *) compared to Kolab: fast bug fixes and _stable_ releases > *) fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight!!! > *) Excellent documentation > *) Good package management and straight forward lifecycle management (almost > always upgrades without worries!) > *) As mentioned elsewhere: I like the GUI, its like a desktop software ... I > am a little worried about V3 that has to be "modern" - I think its difficult > for all the functionality to stick to those design standards > *) Modularity: use an awesome stack of nginx/apache, postfix/exim/qmail, > dovecot/cyrus/courier, antispam filter, openldap/apache > DS/389-Directoryservice, various other tools ... you get the idea ... and on > top sogo > > One of the things I am missing most in SOGo is 2 factor authorization, like > with yubi key or some other tools. > > Thats an interesting thread, hope we get some more opinions! > > best regards, > infoomatic -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
On 07/17/2015 03:18 PM, Charles Marcus wrote: > I'm curious, would you agree with the other person who replied about > issues with Openchange+Outlook? To be clear: I have no experience using Outlook with SOGo/OpenChange, just did a (really) short test... this is what I've heard from others, even on this mailing list. I am also very interested to hear from other users what exactly is working fine and where are the bottlenecks with openchange. Usually you have to get response from users working with a solution as they sometimes are used to do things we've never expected as admins ;-) Regards Peter -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
On Friday, July 17, 2015 15:18 CEST, Charles Marcus wrote: > I'm curious, would you agree with the other person who replied about > issues with Openchange+Outlook? I cannot tell anything about it since I have never used openchange, just the activesync package. > On 7/16/2015 6:29 PM, Infoomatic wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We have evaluated Kolab but found it not stable, neither the community > > edition nor the enterprise edition. Too many bugs, a beta version of cyrus > > losing index files on a regular basis, stuck (zombie) processes, a setup > > routine which does not exchange the placeholder/variables in the config > > files, a version of 389-directory server with serious flaws etc. We did use > > it in production for a year, but after a while with heavy usage and with > > mailboxes with up to 200k mails we encountered lots of issues; users losing > > all of their contacts (or at least problems with syncing ... the files were > > on the server, however they disappeared on the mobile phone as well as in > > the webinterface), same problem with calendars. The documentation is not > > really straight forward and you have to do a lot of dirty hacks; too much > > dirty patches on roundcube that actually do not 100% work; even a scripted > > daemon that does content analysis (wallaced), but there exists 0 > > documentation and the daemon hangs once in a while. We also had issues with > > the admin interface somehow modifying the ldap schema. In the end: lots of > > troubles. > > > > My view on MS Exchange is biased since I strongly believe in open source, > > however in a project I have to use it. I don't like it, its bloated and > > very very slow, the Microsoft Smart Filtering really sucks and using the > > buggy relay connectors is just pure pain in the ass. Even with the old > > mailserver on the same GBit-switch we did not manage to get more than 5 > > mails/sec into MS Exchange (dovecot on a testserver did around 30). Lots of > > tools get timeout because its so slow (running new adequate hardware for > > about 80 users), e.g. the Xerox WorkCentre cannot send scans because > > establishing a connection to the server is too slow. IMAP support is under > > all critics, users moving folders around get error messages in thunderbird > > because they are still shown on the old places, so they have to delete the > > account and create a new one. The Outlook Web App (webinterface) is also > > not that userfriendly, losing some mails contents and mixing up some > > "conversations", also, when you delete some mails via webinterface they > > show up on IMAP for hours, it needs a long time to "synchronize". Search > > seems buggy because some mails are not found when you search a term. Gna, > > have to stop this here ... I just hate it. > > > > Now, SOGo: > > *) few bugs, most of them I can live with > > *) compared to Kolab: fast bug fixes and _stable_ releases > > *) fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight!!! > > *) Excellent documentation > > *) Good package management and straight forward lifecycle management > > (almost always upgrades without worries!) > > *) As mentioned elsewhere: I like the GUI, its like a desktop software ... > > I am a little worried about V3 that has to be "modern" - I think its > > difficult for all the functionality to stick to those design standards > > *) Modularity: use an awesome stack of nginx/apache, postfix/exim/qmail, > > dovecot/cyrus/courier, antispam filter, openldap/apache > > DS/389-Directoryservice, various other tools ... you get the idea ... and > > on top sogo > > > > One of the things I am missing most in SOGo is 2 factor authorization, like > > with yubi key or some other tools. > > > > Thats an interesting thread, hope we get some more opinions! > > > > best regards, > > infoomatic > > > > -- > users@sogo.nu > https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Survey - Who uses SOGo (and why not exchange)
Hello We were on Kolab until version before the 3. That worked well except the calendars with other thing than evolution clients and was always a problem with big calendars who were written in IMP instead a database. The situation for us and our customer were difficult when they wanted to use the groupware wih more than a "little normal use". I know well the problem as i m the first writer of the activesync plugin for Kolab some year ago ( with Zpush) I wanted a stable solution easy to use easy to integrate and I found SOgo and tested it. We migrated all our Kolab to SOgo/Cyrus/openldap and made sogxmail (the integration of all the component and took the concept of templates from Kolab for all the setting) My experience and my customers are really happy about it (Stable, good webmail, Thunderbird/Ligning/Sogo connectors) who is a great replacement for Outlook). Sogo is very reactive when we found bugs and correct them rapidely But my big experience about opensources groupware is most all runs well if you don t use Outlook With Outlook is unstable hard to manage (update connectors, deploiment etc ) no one of integrators integrate an automatic update ... Our last experience with outlook and one Caldav connector is catastrophic Our test with openchange is for us "NOT READY TO USE IN PRODUCTION" too many missing functionnalities. Well the best way for us is , thunderbird -> Sogo Regards Le Vendredi 17 Juillet 2015 15:18 CEST, Charles Marcus a écrit: I'm curious, would you agree with the other person who replied about issues with Openchange+Outlook? On 7/16/2015 6:29 PM, Infoomatic wrote: > Hi, > > We have evaluated Kolab but found it not stable, neither the community > edition nor the enterprise edition. Too many bugs, a beta version of cyrus > losing index files on a regular basis, stuck (zombie) processes, a setup > routine which does not exchange the placeholder/variables in the config > files, a version of 389-directory server with serious flaws etc. We did use > it in production for a year, but after a while with heavy usage and with > mailboxes with up to 200k mails we encountered lots of issues; users losing > all of their contacts (or at least problems with syncing ... the files were > on the server, however they disappeared on the mobile phone as well as in the > webinterface), same problem with calendars. The documentation is not really > straight forward and you have to do a lot of dirty hacks; too much dirty > patches on roundcube that actually do not 100% work; even a scripted daemon > that does content analysis (wallaced), but there exists 0 documentation and > the daemon hangs once in a while. We also had issues with the admin interface > somehow modifying the ldap schema. In the end: lots of troubles. > > My view on MS Exchange is biased since I strongly believe in open source, > however in a project I have to use it. I don't like it, its bloated and very > very slow, the Microsoft Smart Filtering really sucks and using the buggy > relay connectors is just pure pain in the ass. Even with the old mailserver > on the same GBit-switch we did not manage to get more than 5 mails/sec into > MS Exchange (dovecot on a testserver did around 30). Lots of tools get > timeout because its so slow (running new adequate hardware for about 80 > users), e.g. the Xerox WorkCentre cannot send scans because establishing a > connection to the server is too slow. IMAP support is under all critics, > users moving folders around get error messages in thunderbird because they > are still shown on the old places, so they have to delete the account and > create a new one. The Outlook Web App (webinterface) is also not that > userfriendly, losing some mails contents and mixing up some "conversations", > also, when you delete some mails via webinterface they show up on IMAP for > hours, it needs a long time to "synchronize". Search seems buggy because some > mails are not found when you search a term. Gna, have to stop this here ... I > just hate it. > > Now, SOGo: > *) few bugs, most of them I can live with > *) compared to Kolab: fast bug fixes and _stable_ releases > *) fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight, fast & lightweight!!! > *) Excellent documentation > *) Good package management and straight forward lifecycle management (almost > always upgrades without worries!) > *) As mentioned elsewhere: I like the GUI, its like a desktop software ... I > am a little worried about V3 that has to be "modern" - I think its difficult > for all the functionality to stick to those design standards > *) Modularity: use an awesome stack of nginx/apache, postfix/exim/qmail, > dovecot/cyrus/courier, antispam filter, openldap/apache > DS/389-Directoryservice, various other tools ... you get the idea ... and on > top sogo > > One of the things I am missing most in SOGo is 2 factor authorization, like > with yubi key or some other tools. > > Thats an
