Re: Live upgrade safe?

[Benny Pedersen]

On September 14, 2015 2:25:19 AM Reindl Harald  wrote:


you are talking bullshit!


what ?

Re: Live upgrade safe?

[Benny Pedersen]

Greg Troxel skrev den 2015-09-14 01:35:

I don't remember getting bit by it until just now.


ask your self, what will happend if you upgraded rpm package that is 
possible new in the rpm repos, but cointains also the rules that are 
old, and you daily have used sa-update via cron, do you then like to 
have the new rules from rpm, or sa-update rules ?


i can give another example of so called brokken rpm, but i stop here, 
clamav had also old main.cvd and daily.cvd that maked the tarball very 
big for gentoo users to just update the source to new version, the 
compiled tbz2 file was less size then the tarball, hmm


i think spamassassin olso have learned a lesson here :=)

think one more time, it does matter

Re: Live upgrade safe?

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.09.2015 um 01:41 schrieb Reindl Harald:



Am 14.09.2015 um 01:35 schrieb Greg Troxel:

Reindl Harald  writes:


RPM packages are not supposed to contact network *3rd party*
ressources at install time and when you think 1 second you know why -
who tells you that the 3rd party ressource is available at that moment
and how handle errors and bugreports when it fails?

that will never happen in a distribution package - no idea why you
think we need to discuss that or even you can consider something as
bug when you obviously have no expierience with distributions..


In pkgsrc, it is also considered a bug for a package installation to use
the net.   Our spamassassin package doesn't, and users have to run
sa-update before starting it after upgrades.   This seems broken to me;
it seems that a release should come with rules, even if we know that
people should be updating to more modern ones.   This seems to be a
recent change; I don't remember getting bit by it until just now.


it *comes* with rules but at least with 3.4.1 there where crashes
without reported running "sa-update", there are always the default
scores and rules besides /var/lib/spamassassin


here you go - /var/lib/spamassassin/3.004001/ empty and it fails to start

[root@testserver:~]$ rm -rf /var/lib/spamassassin/3.004001/*
[root@testserver:~]$ systemctl restart spamassassin.service
[root@testserver:~]$ cat messages
Sep 14 01:00:31 testserver systemd: Stopping Spamassassin Daemon...
Sep 14 01:00:31 testserver systemd: Starting Spamassassin Daemon...
Sep 14 01:00:31 testserver systemd: Started Spamassassin Daemon.
Sep 14 01:37:00 testserver su: (to builduser) root on pts/1
Sep 14 01:42:43 testserver systemd: Stopping Spamassassin Daemon...
Sep 14 01:42:43 testserver systemd: Starting Spamassassin Daemon...
Sep 14 01:42:43 testserver systemd: Started Spamassassin Daemon.
Sep 14 01:42:44 testserver systemd: spamassassin.service: main process 
exited, code=exited, status=255/n/a
Sep 14 01:42:44 testserver systemd: Unit spamassassin.service entered 
failed state.

Sep 14 01:42:44 testserver systemd: spamassassin.service failed.
Sep 14 01:42:45 testserver systemd: spamassassin.service holdoff time 
over, scheduling restart.

Sep 14 01:42:45 testserver systemd: Starting Spamassassin Daemon...
Sep 14 01:42:45 testserver systemd: Started Spamassassin Daemon.
Sep 14 01:42:45 testserver systemd: spamassassin.service: main process 
exited, code=exited, status=255/n/a
Sep 14 01:42:45 testserver systemd: Unit spamassassin.service entered 
failed state.

Sep 14 01:42:45 testserver systemd: spamassassin.service failed.
[root@testserver:~]$


after "sa-update" all is fine

[root@testserver:~]$ sa-update
[root@testserver:~]$ systemctl restart spamassassin.service
[root@testserver:~]$ systemctl status spamassassin.service
● spamassassin.service - Spamassassin Daemon
   Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/spamassassin.service; enabled; 
vendor preset: disabled)

   Active: active (running) since Mo 2015-09-14 01:43:47 CEST; 10s ago
  Process: 103996 ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/find /var/lib/spamassassin/ 
-type f -exec /bin/chmod 0644 {} ; (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
  Process: 103991 ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/find /var/lib/spamassassin/ 
-type d -exec /bin/chmod 0755 {} ; (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)

 Main PID: 104066 (spamd)



rpm -q --filesbypkg spamassassin | grep /usr/share/spamassassin/
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/10_default_prefs.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/10_hasbase.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_advance_fee.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_aux_tlds.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_body_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_compensate.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_dnsbl_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_drugs.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_dynrdns.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_fake_helo_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_freemail.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_freemail_domains.cf
spamassassin /usr/share/spamassassin/20_freemail_mailcom_domains.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_head_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_html_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_imageinfo.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_mailspike.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_meta_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_net_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_pdfinfo.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_phrases.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_porn.cf
spamassassin  

Re: Live upgrade safe?

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.09.2015 um 02:17 schrieb Benny Pedersen:

Greg Troxel skrev den 2015-09-14 01:35:

I don't remember getting bit by it until just now.


ask your self, what will happend if you upgraded rpm package that is
possible new in the rpm repos, but cointains also the rules that are
old, and you daily have used sa-update via cron, do you then like to
have the new rules from rpm, or sa-update rules ?


you are talking bullshit!

/var/lib/spamassassin overrides /usr/share and guess what the default 
rules and scores are also present when you don't use RPM



i can give another example of so called brokken rpm, but i stop here,
clamav had also old main.cvd and daily.cvd that maked the tarball very
big for gentoo users to just update the source to new version, the
compiled tbz2 file was less size then the tarball, hmm


guess what the "clamav-data-empty-0.98.7-1.fc21.noarch" package is


i think spamassassin olso have learned a lesson here :=)
think one more time, it does matter


i suggest you think before talking about things you have no diea that often



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Re: Live upgrade safe?

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.09.2015 um 01:35 schrieb Greg Troxel:

Reindl Harald  writes:


RPM packages are not supposed to contact network *3rd party*
ressources at install time and when you think 1 second you know why -
who tells you that the 3rd party ressource is available at that moment
and how handle errors and bugreports when it fails?

that will never happen in a distribution package - no idea why you
think we need to discuss that or even you can consider something as
bug when you obviously have no expierience with distributions..


In pkgsrc, it is also considered a bug for a package installation to use
the net.   Our spamassassin package doesn't, and users have to run
sa-update before starting it after upgrades.   This seems broken to me;
it seems that a release should come with rules, even if we know that
people should be updating to more modern ones.   This seems to be a
recent change; I don't remember getting bit by it until just now.


it *comes* with rules but at least with 3.4.1 there where crashes 
without reported running "sa-update", there are always the default 
scores and rules besides /var/lib/spamassassin


rpm -q --filesbypkg spamassassin | grep /usr/share/spamassassin/
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/10_default_prefs.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/10_hasbase.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_advance_fee.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_aux_tlds.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_body_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_compensate.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_dnsbl_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_drugs.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_dynrdns.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_fake_helo_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_freemail.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_freemail_domains.cf
spamassassin 
/usr/share/spamassassin/20_freemail_mailcom_domains.cf

spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_head_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_html_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_imageinfo.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_mailspike.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_meta_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_net_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_pdfinfo.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_phrases.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_porn.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_ratware.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_uri_tests.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/20_vbounce.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/23_bayes.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_accessdb.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_antivirus.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_asn.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_dcc.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_dkim.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_hashcash.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_pyzor.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_razor2.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_replace.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_spf.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_textcat.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/25_uribl.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/30_text_de.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/30_text_fr.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/30_text_it.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/30_text_nl.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/30_text_pl.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/30_text_pt_br.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/50_scores.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_adsp_override_dkim.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_awl.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_shortcircuit.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_whitelist.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_whitelist_dkim.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_whitelist_spf.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/60_whitelist_subject.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/72_active.cf
spamassassin  /usr/share/spamassassin/72_scores.cf
spamassassin 
/usr/share/spamassassin/73_sandbox_manual_scores.cf
spamassassin 
/usr/share/spamassassin/STATISTICS-set0-72_scores.cf.txt
spamassassin 
/usr/share/spamassassin/STATISTICS-set1-72_scores.cf.txt
spamassassin 

Re: Live upgrade safe?

[Greg Troxel]

Reindl Harald  writes:

> RPM packages are not supposed to contact network *3rd party*
> ressources at install time and when you think 1 second you know why -
> who tells you that the 3rd party ressource is available at that moment
> and how handle errors and bugreports when it fails?
>
> that will never happen in a distribution package - no idea why you
> think we need to discuss that or even you can consider something as
> bug when you obviously have no expierience with distributions..

In pkgsrc, it is also considered a bug for a package installation to use
the net.   Our spamassassin package doesn't, and users have to run
sa-update before starting it after upgrades.   This seems broken to me;
it seems that a release should come with rules, even if we know that
people should be updating to more modern ones.   This seems to be a
recent change; I don't remember getting bit by it until just now.


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