Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Taha Hafeez 
Just to add my two cents. 

My tapestry applications have been in production for a long time (7+ years) and 
are rock solid and highly scalable. I think Tapestry is still a very good 
solution for many use cases. 

Thanks
Taha


> On 28 Nov 2018, at 00:26, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM Mats Andersson 
> wrote:
> 
>> I have been using Tapestry in different setups since the beginning of
>> Tapestry 5. First I found the IOC and the client components useful.
> 
> 
> In my day job, which uses Tapestry, even the people who dislike
> Tapestry-the-web-framework actually like Tapestry-IoC very much.
> 
> 
>> Then I realized the benefits of the genious way the filters works.
> 
> 
> Yes, you can handle, decorate and protect with Tapestry's filters even
> requests which aren't served by Tapestry itself. I'd also include the
> dispatchers too. Similar to servlets, but way better (live class reloading,
> no XML configuration, Tapestry-IoC).
> 
> 
>> Now if not already done, in my opinion, it is time to separate client and
>> server parts.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what's your line between client and server. Client usually
> includes just JavaScript, but your description seems to include pages and
> components too. If you mean a Tapestry-minimal framework including just
> RequestFilter and Dispatcher, that's doable, not a huge effort, and
> something similar was already done in the past without breaking changes
> (separating the BeanModel classes from tapestry-core).
> 
> 
>> The main problems I would say is the lack of an updated best practices
> 
> 
> Well, the best practices are the same since Tapestry 5.4 was released, and
> I'm saying that specifically due to the change in JavaScript support. The
> rest hasn't changed much since Tapestry 5.0.
> 
> 
>> and the missing Java 11 support.
> 
> 
> It's being worked on right now, starting with Java 9 first, then 10 and 11
> to follow.
> 
> 
>> I am not updated with the latest on Java 11 support but for my own sake I
>> am not that worried. About the best practices it is mainly a problem for
>> Tapestry acceptance. When people see that pages are rendered server side in
>> Tapestry they see a conflict with the powerful way to build web
>> applications using Angular or similar. What they don't see is the beautiful
>> backend framework that is so complete that it do not require continuous
>> updates. Just opinions, but hopefully it will be of use to someone.
>> 
> 
> Thanks for your insights!
> 
> --
> Thiago


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org

Jetty not reloading

2018-11-27 Thread Qbyte Consulting 
I’m finding resources are not dynamically reloading. Jetty config below, what 
do I need to do?



org.eclipse.jetty
jetty-maven-plugin
9.2.0.M0


9095




tapestry.execution-mode

development


version

${project.version}







Sent from my iPhone
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Mats Andersson 
About client and server separation, I meant that the application should 
be split into one server/back-end part providing a rest interface and a 
web application part which can use a completely different framework like 
Angular. That way no dependencies exist between the two which helps a 
lot during upgrade of libs etc. From my experience that has worked well.


I believe there is no need to split Tapestry itself for this purpose and 
I am aware of that there are still use-cases for handling everything in 
a single application. It is good with choices :-)


Mats


On 2018-11-27 19:56, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM Mats Andersson 
wrote:


I have been using Tapestry in different setups since the beginning of
Tapestry 5. First I found the IOC and the client components useful.


In my day job, which uses Tapestry, even the people who dislike
Tapestry-the-web-framework actually like Tapestry-IoC very much.



Then I realized the benefits of the genious way the filters works.


Yes, you can handle, decorate and protect with Tapestry's filters even
requests which aren't served by Tapestry itself. I'd also include the
dispatchers too. Similar to servlets, but way better (live class reloading,
no XML configuration, Tapestry-IoC).



Now if not already done, in my opinion, it is time to separate client and
server parts.


I'm not sure what's your line between client and server. Client usually
includes just JavaScript, but your description seems to include pages and
components too. If you mean a Tapestry-minimal framework including just
RequestFilter and Dispatcher, that's doable, not a huge effort, and
something similar was already done in the past without breaking changes
(separating the BeanModel classes from tapestry-core).



The main problems I would say is the lack of an updated best practices


Well, the best practices are the same since Tapestry 5.4 was released, and
I'm saying that specifically due to the change in JavaScript support. The
rest hasn't changed much since Tapestry 5.0.



and the missing Java 11 support.


It's being worked on right now, starting with Java 9 first, then 10 and 11
to follow.



I am not updated with the latest on Java 11 support but for my own sake I
am not that worried. About the best practices it is mainly a problem for
Tapestry acceptance. When people see that pages are rendered server side in
Tapestry they see a conflict with the powerful way to build web
applications using Angular or similar. What they don't see is the beautiful
backend framework that is so complete that it do not require continuous
updates. Just opinions, but hopefully it will be of use to someone.


Thanks for your insights!

--
Thiago


--
-- Mats Andersson | Ronsoft AB | +46(0)73 368 79 82


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo 
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM Mats Andersson 
wrote:

> I have been using Tapestry in different setups since the beginning of
> Tapestry 5. First I found the IOC and the client components useful.


In my day job, which uses Tapestry, even the people who dislike
Tapestry-the-web-framework actually like Tapestry-IoC very much.


> Then I realized the benefits of the genious way the filters works.


Yes, you can handle, decorate and protect with Tapestry's filters even
requests which aren't served by Tapestry itself. I'd also include the
dispatchers too. Similar to servlets, but way better (live class reloading,
no XML configuration, Tapestry-IoC).


> Now if not already done, in my opinion, it is time to separate client and
> server parts.


I'm not sure what's your line between client and server. Client usually
includes just JavaScript, but your description seems to include pages and
components too. If you mean a Tapestry-minimal framework including just
RequestFilter and Dispatcher, that's doable, not a huge effort, and
something similar was already done in the past without breaking changes
(separating the BeanModel classes from tapestry-core).


> The main problems I would say is the lack of an updated best practices


Well, the best practices are the same since Tapestry 5.4 was released, and
I'm saying that specifically due to the change in JavaScript support. The
rest hasn't changed much since Tapestry 5.0.


> and the missing Java 11 support.


It's being worked on right now, starting with Java 9 first, then 10 and 11
to follow.


> I am not updated with the latest on Java 11 support but for my own sake I
> am not that worried. About the best practices it is mainly a problem for
> Tapestry acceptance. When people see that pages are rendered server side in
> Tapestry they see a conflict with the powerful way to build web
> applications using Angular or similar. What they don't see is the beautiful
> backend framework that is so complete that it do not require continuous
> updates. Just opinions, but hopefully it will be of use to someone.
>

Thanks for your insights!

--
Thiago

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Emmanuel Sowah 
It is true, he has mentioned that in the first line. But what is the point
of creating something and not using it? As a new user, that would sound and
alarm bell to me.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:16 PM Numa Schmeder  wrote:

> Yes and on the first lines it’s written creator of Tapestry Framework ;)
>
>
>
> > Le 27 nov. 2018 à 13:36, Emmanuel Sowah  a écrit :
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here is a snippet from skills Howard Lewis Ship's listed on his website
> > http://howardlewisship.com/:
> >
> > "*On the front-end, I've used all the major frameworks: jQuery,
> AngularJS,
> > Backbone, ReactJS, ExtJS, Underscore, and more. More importantly, I have
> > leveraged whatever tools are available to create responsive and
> complelling
> > user interfaces.*"
> >
> > As you can see, he is even shy about mentioning Tapestry as a skill. He
> > even used Apache Wicket on a client project in the past. You should ask
> > yourself, why is this guy not eating his own dog shit?
> >
> > Learn Angular today!
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:47 AM Qbyte Consulting <
> qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I was recently working on a project with React components connected to
> >> controllers in C# to provide the API for the back end. Development is
> slow
> >> and tedious because there’s lots of boilerplate code, although there is
> the
> >> benefit of some component reuse.
> >>
> >> Looking at the react components reminded me somewhat of the bad old days
> >> of JSP, because they build the markup structure inside code rather than
> >> have it all in a separate markup template. It’s simply not as good as
> >> tapestry components.
> >>
> >> Sometimes the “new” way is still the old way.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On 27 Nov 2018, at 03:06, Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thiago,
> >>>
> >>> It seems you cannot read English. I was suggesting Angular and Spring
> >>> backend services being exposed via Rest to the Angular. It's seems all
> >> you
> >>> know is Tapestry and nothing else. The world is bigger than Tapestry,
> >> boy;-)
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:52 PM Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
> >>> thiag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:24 AM Emmanuel Sowah 
> >> wrote:
> >
> > There we go again. Instead of engaging in constructive arguments, you
> > behave like a child with comments like "Don't feed the trolls".
> >> Pathetic.
> >
> 
>  Replacing a mostly-server-side framework with a JavaScript client-side
>  library isn't what I'd call a constructive argument.
> 
>  And we know Emmanuel Sowah is an old, low-quality troll. He used to
> >> suggest
>  Apache Wicket (which is a nice framework, by the way, but I'm partial
> to
>  Tapestry, of course, hehehe) and is now suggesting Spring? Weird turn
> of
>  events. But yet a low-quality troll. Good ones have good arguments and
> >> make
>  tough questions.
> 
> 
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:21 AM Juicy Cocktail <
> >> raf...@juicycocktail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Here is something I throw at you: 🥗🍕
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Rafael
> >>
> >> P.S. Don’t feed the trolls.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 26, 2018, at 9:17 AM, Emmanuel Sowah 
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> But is web application framework not an overkill for this small
> >> application
> >>> you are building? Something you could quickly do with Angular in a
>  more
> >>> efficient way.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:12 AM Qbyte Consulting <
> >> qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  Setting up a tapestry project for building a trivial webapp for
> back
>  office data entry is still very efficient.
> 
>  Angular is a glorified java script library, not a web application
>  framework.
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 26 Nov 2018, at 14:09, Emmanuel Sowah 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dude,
> >
> > Really setting up tapestry for a new project? Are you out of your
> > mind?
> > Tapestry is a dying project, even it's founder Howard Lewis Ship
>  has
> > abandoned his ship long ago and jumped onto another modern
>  framework.
> > Pickup Angular or another modern framework for your new project.
> > Cheers.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:53 AM Qbyte Consulting <
>  qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I’m trying to setup a bare bones tapestry project in maven 3.
> >>
> >> Can anyone point me an example how to do that please?
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> > -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apach

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Numa Schmeder 
Does anyone has experience building an angular or react application consisting 
on interacting with more than 100 related objects containing all at least 10 
fields of different types (string, double, int, dates, times) etc.
I am interested on your feedback. 

I have worked on smaller react/redux projects with just a few objects and and a 
hundred of fields. It has been a nightmare debugging. Backend was made using 
spring restful + hibernate, frontend react/redux. It’s really not easy to debug 
and maintain. Speed is fine as long as you don’t try to hold too many objects. 
You need to care of garbage collecting your objects or your browser will 
explose. You need to merge and version your data… you need DTO, you cannot do 
big computation on the client, so you still need to do them on the server… I 
don’t even talk about refactoring… 
 
As a matter of fact, client side frameworks are not good at this, they make me 
think of the beginning of J2EE/EJB with hundred of lines of boilerplate code, 
interfaces everywhere etc…

Most developers I have seen just don’t understand most of the asynchronous 
issues, concurrent calls. They code javascript because it’s easy and they 
forget most of the issues you can find in a big project.

Frameworks like Ember, Vue, Angular are good to create some more or less 
complex components, but you still need a server side application to interact 
with your data and generate your main views. 

Tapestry is good and it has its use case, it could improve but it’s clearly not 
obsolete. 

JS components frameworks are great too and have their use case. 

In the end it  doesn’t really matter, as long as you find the frameworks that 
fit your needs and your requirements :) 


     Numa Schmederwww.dfacto.ch  

n...@dfacto.ch    |   M +41 79 538 30 01 

DIGITAL STRATEGY   |   DESIGN   |   DEVELOPMENT


 

> Le 27 nov. 2018 à 14:39, Mats Andersson  a écrit :
> 
> Tapestry does a lot of things. It is not easy to cover every aspect with a 
> good/bad old/new style talking about Tapestry as one thing. Opinions from the 
> ones actually using it could be useful for anyone reading this list, so here 
> is my contribution to that. 
> 
> I have been using Tapestry in different setups since the beginning of 
> Tapestry 5. First I found the IOC and the client components useful. Then I 
> realized the benefits of the genious way the filters works. I really 
> appreciated the move to JQuery, since I already was using that and it really 
> made life easier. 
> 
> Now if not already done, in my opinion, it is time to separate client and 
> server parts. Server should provide json through a rest service, Tapestry 
> works very well for that, for example in combination with Jersey. On the 
> client side I have found the same good feeling, flow, using Angular as I have 
> with Tapestry on the server side. They really work well together. So to 
> conclude, should I recommend anyone to start a new project using Tapestry on 
> the server side? The main problems I would say is the lack of an updated best 
> practices and the missing Java 11 support. I am not updated with the latest 
> on Java 11 support but for my own sake I am not that worried. About the best 
> practices it is mainly a problem for Tapestry acceptance. When people see 
> that pages are rendered server side in Tapestry they see a conflict with the 
> powerful way to build web applications using Angular or similar. What they 
> don't see is the beautiful backend framework that is so complete that it do 
> not require continuous updates. Just opinions, but hopefully it will be of 
> use to someone. 
> 
> Skickat från min Xperia™-smartphone från Sony
> 
>  Emmanuel Sowah skrev 
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Here is a snippet from skills Howard Lewis Ship's listed on his website
>> http://howardlewisship.com/:
>> 
>> "*On the front-end, I've used all the major frameworks: jQuery, AngularJS,
>> Backbone, ReactJS, ExtJS, Underscore, and more. More importantly, I have
>> leveraged whatever tools are available to create responsive and complelling
>> user interfaces.*"
>> 
>> As you can see, he is even shy about mentioning Tapestry as a skill. He
>> even used Apache Wicket on a client project in the past. You should ask
>> yourself, why is this guy not eating his own dog shit?
>> 
>> Learn Angular today!
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:47 AM Qbyte Consulting 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I was recently working on a project with React components connected to
>>> controllers in C# to provide the API for the back end. Development is slow
>>> and tedious because there’s lots of boilerplate code, although there is the
>>> benefit of some component reuse.
>>> 
>>> Looking at the react components reminded me somewhat of the bad old days
>>> of JSP, because they build the markup structure inside code rather than
>>> have it all in a separate markup template. It’s simply not as good as
>>> tapest

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Numa Schmeder 
Yes and on the first lines it’s written creator of Tapestry Framework ;)



> Le 27 nov. 2018 à 13:36, Emmanuel Sowah  a écrit :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is a snippet from skills Howard Lewis Ship's listed on his website
> http://howardlewisship.com/:
> 
> "*On the front-end, I've used all the major frameworks: jQuery, AngularJS,
> Backbone, ReactJS, ExtJS, Underscore, and more. More importantly, I have
> leveraged whatever tools are available to create responsive and complelling
> user interfaces.*"
> 
> As you can see, he is even shy about mentioning Tapestry as a skill. He
> even used Apache Wicket on a client project in the past. You should ask
> yourself, why is this guy not eating his own dog shit?
> 
> Learn Angular today!
> 
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:47 AM Qbyte Consulting 
> wrote:
> 
>> I was recently working on a project with React components connected to
>> controllers in C# to provide the API for the back end. Development is slow
>> and tedious because there’s lots of boilerplate code, although there is the
>> benefit of some component reuse.
>> 
>> Looking at the react components reminded me somewhat of the bad old days
>> of JSP, because they build the markup structure inside code rather than
>> have it all in a separate markup template. It’s simply not as good as
>> tapestry components.
>> 
>> Sometimes the “new” way is still the old way.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 27 Nov 2018, at 03:06, Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thiago,
>>> 
>>> It seems you cannot read English. I was suggesting Angular and Spring
>>> backend services being exposed via Rest to the Angular. It's seems all
>> you
>>> know is Tapestry and nothing else. The world is bigger than Tapestry,
>> boy;-)
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:52 PM Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
>>> thiag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:24 AM Emmanuel Sowah 
>> wrote:
> 
> There we go again. Instead of engaging in constructive arguments, you
> behave like a child with comments like "Don't feed the trolls".
>> Pathetic.
> 
 
 Replacing a mostly-server-side framework with a JavaScript client-side
 library isn't what I'd call a constructive argument.
 
 And we know Emmanuel Sowah is an old, low-quality troll. He used to
>> suggest
 Apache Wicket (which is a nice framework, by the way, but I'm partial to
 Tapestry, of course, hehehe) and is now suggesting Spring? Weird turn of
 events. But yet a low-quality troll. Good ones have good arguments and
>> make
 tough questions.
 
 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:21 AM Juicy Cocktail <
>> raf...@juicycocktail.com
> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Here is something I throw at you: 🥗🍕
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Rafael
>> 
>> P.S. Don’t feed the trolls.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 26, 2018, at 9:17 AM, Emmanuel Sowah 
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> But is web application framework not an overkill for this small
>> application
>>> you are building? Something you could quickly do with Angular in a
 more
>>> efficient way.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:12 AM Qbyte Consulting <
>> qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Setting up a tapestry project for building a trivial webapp for back
 office data entry is still very efficient.
 
 Angular is a glorified java script library, not a web application
 framework.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 26 Nov 2018, at 14:09, Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
> 
> Dude,
> 
> Really setting up tapestry for a new project? Are you out of your
> mind?
> Tapestry is a dying project, even it's founder Howard Lewis Ship
 has
> abandoned his ship long ago and jumped onto another modern
 framework.
> Pickup Angular or another modern framework for your new project.
> Cheers.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:53 AM Qbyte Consulting <
 qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I’m trying to setup a bare bones tapestry project in maven 3.
>> 
>> Can anyone point me an example how to do that please?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>> 
>> 
 
 
 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
 
 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-uns

SV: Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Mats Andersson 
Tapestry does a lot of things. It is not easy to cover every aspect with a 
good/bad old/new style talking about Tapestry as one thing. Opinions from the 
ones actually using it could be useful for anyone reading this list, so here is 
my contribution to that. 

I have been using Tapestry in different setups since the beginning of Tapestry 
5. First I found the IOC and the client components useful. Then I realized the 
benefits of the genious way the filters works. I really appreciated the move to 
JQuery, since I already was using that and it really made life easier. 

Now if not already done, in my opinion, it is time to separate client and 
server parts. Server should provide json through a rest service, Tapestry works 
very well for that, for example in combination with Jersey. On the client side 
I have found the same good feeling, flow, using Angular as I have with Tapestry 
on the server side. They really work well together. So to conclude, should I 
recommend anyone to start a new project using Tapestry on the server side? The 
main problems I would say is the lack of an updated best practices and the 
missing Java 11 support. I am not updated with the latest on Java 11 support 
but for my own sake I am not that worried. About the best practices it is 
mainly a problem for Tapestry acceptance. When people see that pages are 
rendered server side in Tapestry they see a conflict with the powerful way to 
build web applications using Angular or similar. What they don't see is the 
beautiful backend framework that is so complete that it do not require 
continuous updates. Just opinions, but hopefully it will be of use to someone. 

Skickat från min Xperia™-smartphone från Sony

 Emmanuel Sowah skrev 

>Hi,
>
>Here is a snippet from skills Howard Lewis Ship's listed on his website
>http://howardlewisship.com/:
>
>"*On the front-end, I've used all the major frameworks: jQuery, AngularJS,
>Backbone, ReactJS, ExtJS, Underscore, and more. More importantly, I have
>leveraged whatever tools are available to create responsive and complelling
>user interfaces.*"
>
>As you can see, he is even shy about mentioning Tapestry as a skill. He
>even used Apache Wicket on a client project in the past. You should ask
>yourself, why is this guy not eating his own dog shit?
>
>Learn Angular today!
>
>On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:47 AM Qbyte Consulting 
>wrote:
>
>> I was recently working on a project with React components connected to
>> controllers in C# to provide the API for the back end. Development is slow
>> and tedious because there’s lots of boilerplate code, although there is the
>> benefit of some component reuse.
>>
>> Looking at the react components reminded me somewhat of the bad old days
>> of JSP, because they build the markup structure inside code rather than
>> have it all in a separate markup template. It’s simply not as good as
>> tapestry components.
>>
>> Sometimes the “new” way is still the old way.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 27 Nov 2018, at 03:06, Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
>> >
>> > Thiago,
>> >
>> > It seems you cannot read English. I was suggesting Angular and Spring
>> > backend services being exposed via Rest to the Angular. It's seems all
>> you
>> > know is Tapestry and nothing else. The world is bigger than Tapestry,
>> boy;-)
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:52 PM Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
>> > thiag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:24 AM Emmanuel Sowah 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There we go again. Instead of engaging in constructive arguments, you
>> >>> behave like a child with comments like "Don't feed the trolls".
>> Pathetic.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Replacing a mostly-server-side framework with a JavaScript client-side
>> >> library isn't what I'd call a constructive argument.
>> >>
>> >> And we know Emmanuel Sowah is an old, low-quality troll. He used to
>> suggest
>> >> Apache Wicket (which is a nice framework, by the way, but I'm partial to
>> >> Tapestry, of course, hehehe) and is now suggesting Spring? Weird turn of
>> >> events. But yet a low-quality troll. Good ones have good arguments and
>> make
>> >> tough questions.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:21 AM Juicy Cocktail <
>> raf...@juicycocktail.com
>> >>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>>  Here is something I throw at you: 🥗🍕
>> 
>>  Best Regards,
>>  Rafael
>> 
>>  P.S. Don’t feed the trolls.
>> 
>> 
>> > On Nov 26, 2018, at 9:17 AM, Emmanuel Sowah 
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> > But is web application framework not an overkill for this small
>>  application
>> > you are building? Something you could quickly do with Angular in a
>> >> more
>> > efficient way.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:12 AM Qbyte Consulting <
>>  qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Setting up a tapestry project for building a trivial webapp for back
>> >> office data entry is still very efficient.
>> >>
>> >

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Emmanuel Sowah 
Hi,

Here is a snippet from skills Howard Lewis Ship's listed on his website
http://howardlewisship.com/:

"*On the front-end, I've used all the major frameworks: jQuery, AngularJS,
Backbone, ReactJS, ExtJS, Underscore, and more. More importantly, I have
leveraged whatever tools are available to create responsive and complelling
user interfaces.*"

As you can see, he is even shy about mentioning Tapestry as a skill. He
even used Apache Wicket on a client project in the past. You should ask
yourself, why is this guy not eating his own dog shit?

Learn Angular today!

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:47 AM Qbyte Consulting 
wrote:

> I was recently working on a project with React components connected to
> controllers in C# to provide the API for the back end. Development is slow
> and tedious because there’s lots of boilerplate code, although there is the
> benefit of some component reuse.
>
> Looking at the react components reminded me somewhat of the bad old days
> of JSP, because they build the markup structure inside code rather than
> have it all in a separate markup template. It’s simply not as good as
> tapestry components.
>
> Sometimes the “new” way is still the old way.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 27 Nov 2018, at 03:06, Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
> >
> > Thiago,
> >
> > It seems you cannot read English. I was suggesting Angular and Spring
> > backend services being exposed via Rest to the Angular. It's seems all
> you
> > know is Tapestry and nothing else. The world is bigger than Tapestry,
> boy;-)
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:52 PM Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
> > thiag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:24 AM Emmanuel Sowah 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There we go again. Instead of engaging in constructive arguments, you
> >>> behave like a child with comments like "Don't feed the trolls".
> Pathetic.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Replacing a mostly-server-side framework with a JavaScript client-side
> >> library isn't what I'd call a constructive argument.
> >>
> >> And we know Emmanuel Sowah is an old, low-quality troll. He used to
> suggest
> >> Apache Wicket (which is a nice framework, by the way, but I'm partial to
> >> Tapestry, of course, hehehe) and is now suggesting Spring? Weird turn of
> >> events. But yet a low-quality troll. Good ones have good arguments and
> make
> >> tough questions.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:21 AM Juicy Cocktail <
> raf...@juicycocktail.com
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  Here is something I throw at you: 🥗🍕
> 
>  Best Regards,
>  Rafael
> 
>  P.S. Don’t feed the trolls.
> 
> 
> > On Nov 26, 2018, at 9:17 AM, Emmanuel Sowah 
> >> wrote:
> >
> > But is web application framework not an overkill for this small
>  application
> > you are building? Something you could quickly do with Angular in a
> >> more
> > efficient way.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:12 AM Qbyte Consulting <
>  qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Setting up a tapestry project for building a trivial webapp for back
> >> office data entry is still very efficient.
> >>
> >> Angular is a glorified java script library, not a web application
> >> framework.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On 26 Nov 2018, at 14:09, Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dude,
> >>>
> >>> Really setting up tapestry for a new project? Are you out of your
> >>> mind?
> >>> Tapestry is a dying project, even it's founder Howard Lewis Ship
> >> has
> >>> abandoned his ship long ago and jumped onto another modern
> >> framework.
> >>> Pickup Angular or another modern framework for your new project.
> >>> Cheers.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:53 AM Qbyte Consulting <
> >> qbyteconsult...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  Hi,
> 
>  I’m trying to setup a bare bones tapestry project in maven 3.
> 
>  Can anyone point me an example how to do that please?
> 
>  John
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
> >>> -
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
>  For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
> 
> 
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> 
> 
>  -
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
>  For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thiago
> >>
>
> -
> To u

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Emmanuel Sowah 
Guys,

Get out of the stone-age page based server-side frameworks like Tapestry.
The world is moving on. Even Howard Lewis Ship dumped this bloated
old-fashioned thing and moved on. Don't be left behind.
Grab Angular today. It has a learning curve of course. But it would all be
worth it in the long run.
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo is even witnessing the slow death of
Tapestry. You can see from his desperate search for contributors. He talks
about a core team as if it consists of many developers. He is the only one
on the core team. One day he would also abandon Tapestry like Howard Lewis
Ship did. So jump off the ship now before he does.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:33 PM Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
thiag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:13 PM Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:
>
> > Thiago,
> >
> > It seems you cannot read English.
>
>
> I do
>
>
> > I was suggesting Angular and Spring
> > backend services being exposed via Rest to the Angular.
>
>
> Yes, just after you had just suggested Angular and nothing else.
>
>
> > It's seems all you know is Tapestry and nothing else.
>
>
> It's not wise to make assumptions without evidence in public forums which
> are archived and mirrored.
>
> --
> Thiago
>

RE: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Svein-Erik Løken 
I think Tapestry is super for small to medium projects. Tapestry has bundled 
JQuery, datatable, boostrap, underscore etc. It comes with a lot of nice usable 
Tapestry components. Tapestry takes care of making everything working together, 
but you can use your own version of e.g. JQuery if you want. Tapestry is very 
customable. Live class reloading makes the development superfast. For easy UX I 
am using plain Tapestry templates. For more advanced applications (single page) 
I am using some React/JSX. Some elements in the page are still Tapestry Zones 
because they easy to use. Tapestry works nice as a service layer for serving 
data to my JavaScript when needed.

I think Spring is for large projects.

S-E

From: Qbyte Consulting [via Apache Tapestry Mailing List Archives] 

Sent: mandag 26. november 2018 09:13
To: Svein-Erik Løken 
Subject: Re: QuickStart

Setting up a tapestry project for building a trivial webapp for back office 
data entry is still very efficient.

Angular is a glorified java script library, not a web application framework.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 26 Nov 2018, at 14:09, Emmanuel Sowah <[hidden 
> email]> wrote:
>
> Dude,
>
> Really setting up tapestry for a new project? Are you out of your mind?
> Tapestry is a dying project, even it's founder Howard Lewis Ship has
> abandoned his ship long ago and jumped onto another modern framework.
> Pickup Angular or another modern framework for your new project.
> Cheers.
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:53 AM Qbyte Consulting <[hidden 
> email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I’m trying to setup a bare bones tapestry project in maven 3.
>>
>> Can anyone point me an example how to do that please?
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden 
>> email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden 
>> email]
>>
>>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden 
email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden 
email]

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://apache-tapestry-mailing-list-archives.1045711.n5.nabble.com/QuickStart-tp5734100p5734102.html
To unsubscribe from users@tapestry.apache.org 
Mailing List Archives, click 
here.
NAML

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo 
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:54 AM Rafael Bugajewski 
wrote:

> Heya all,
>

Hello!


> I’m in a similar situation. I started my first Tapestry project 14 months
> ago and did a pretty sophisticated research in advance. I haven’t regretted
> it yet, and the only worries I had, were about new Java releases
> compatibility. But this is something that is already in progress as far as
> I know (as a side note: Do anybody know the status of this?).


Yes, we're working on this. You can follow the progress in
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-2588, which has Java 9 in its
title, even though we do want to have Java 10 and 11 supported too. Of
course, you can also join the discussion and even post patches, as someone
already did and I'm planning to apply it to the code very soon. Everyone is
invited to participate in one way or another!


> I guess there are coders who always jump on the new hype train. They buy
> the new hyped out hammer that’s just a little bit more shiny than the
> previous one. Everything looks to them like nails in the end.


This has been particularly true to client-side JavaScript. It seems to me
that React and similar libraries are slowly taking over the other
approaches lately.


> And then there are engineers who choose the right tools for the job
> without prejudices.
>

Words of wisdom!


> I want to thank the current Tapestry core team for their work.
>

And we, the Tapestry core team, would like to thank everyone who posted
their testimonials here, including the one with criticisms. Yes, we know
JavaScript is something which could have been handled in a more friendly
way, but that reflects the server-side-focused time it was created.

--
Thiago

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo 
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:13 PM Emmanuel Sowah  wrote:

> Thiago,
>
> It seems you cannot read English.


I do


> I was suggesting Angular and Spring
> backend services being exposed via Rest to the Angular.


Yes, just after you had just suggested Angular and nothing else.


> It's seems all you know is Tapestry and nothing else.


It's not wise to make assumptions without evidence in public forums which
are archived and mirrored.

--
Thiago

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Numa Schmeder 
Hi everyone,

I am using tapestry since 10 years, on web apps that have 100’000+ lines of 
codes. It works well, of course it has it’s drawbacks like any framework, but 
it’s way better than many other frameworks I have tested (JSF, Wicket, Struts, 
Spring MVC). 
Building apps with 100% of react is a nightmare, and usually not worth it, it’s 
good for apps that have a very straightforward use case, for business apps back 
office with multiple form, and input data, react or vue or any component based 
js framework has no advantages. React is useful in very specific user 
experience to achieve specific tasks (google adwords or google analytics) but 
even adwords or analytics are full of bugs, they hang the browser, you have to 
refresh the page. We are talking of apps made by 100 of engineers.

The biggest drawback now is that tapestry has it’s own js implementation (based 
on various js library such as jquery). I know it’s theoretically compatible 
with any other js framework (as long as you implement the tapestry js 
interface, this what i have done to make it work with dojo instead of jquery), 
but it expose too much javascript. It should have a way to only expose json 
objects for validation or events handling etc.. 

Nowadays I use webpack for all my javascript, css processing, I also use 
typescript most of the time. Thus making webpack fit in tapestry is a bit of 
pain, you have to remove all javascript included in every component, then add 
into webpack all the tapestry dependencies etc… 
I think this would be a great area to improve, but it’s clearly not easy. But I 
believe webpack is the future. I have thought of building typescript + webpack 
with rhino, but it’s way to heavy :( 

Best regards,

Numa


The way to go: Tapestry, Spring, Hibernate, React functional or Vue

     Numa Schmederwww.dfacto.ch  

n...@dfacto.ch    |   M +41 79 538 30 01 

DIGITAL STRATEGY   |   DESIGN   |   DEVELOPMENT


 

> Le 27 nov. 2018 à 10:54, Rafael Bugajewski  a écrit 
> :
> 
> Heya all,
> 
> I’m in a similar situation. I started my first Tapestry project 14 months ago 
> and did a pretty sophisticated research in advance. I haven’t regretted it 
> yet, and the only worries I had, were about new Java releases compatibility. 
> But this is something that is already in progress as far as I know (as a side 
> note: Do anybody know the status of this?). I also love how Tapestry handles 
> things with its convention first approach. It’s a very mature framework, so 
> of course it took a little bit of time to understand how all the components 
> work together, but once you grasp it, you gain a massive productivity 
> increase. We’re just a small team, so this is very important. I don’t care 
> about the framework as much, as I care about fast releases (that’s what 
> frameworks are for in the end).
> 
> Tapestry just fits perfectly into this mentality.
> 
> I guess there are coders who always jump on the new hype train. They buy the 
> new hyped out hammer that’s just a little bit more shiny than the previous 
> one. Everything looks to them like nails in the end. And then there are 
> engineers who choose the right tools for the job without prejudices.
> 
> I want to thank the current Tapestry core team for their work.
> 
> Best,
> Rafael
> 
> 
>> On 2018-27-11, at 05:16 AM, Christopher Dodunski 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I only started with Tapestry, seriously, around 18 months ago.  Tapestry
>> may not be the latest fashion, but I love its convention over
>> configuration approach, use of POJOs, and the myriad other elegant
>> features that keep web application development fun and rewarding.
>> 
>> I guess technical elegance and fun never goes out of fashion, huh?  :-)
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>

Re: QuickStart

2018-11-27 Thread Rafael Bugajewski 
Heya all,

I’m in a similar situation. I started my first Tapestry project 14 months ago 
and did a pretty sophisticated research in advance. I haven’t regretted it yet, 
and the only worries I had, were about new Java releases compatibility. But 
this is something that is already in progress as far as I know (as a side note: 
Do anybody know the status of this?). I also love how Tapestry handles things 
with its convention first approach. It’s a very mature framework, so of course 
it took a little bit of time to understand how all the components work 
together, but once you grasp it, you gain a massive productivity increase. 
We’re just a small team, so this is very important. I don’t care about the 
framework as much, as I care about fast releases (that’s what frameworks are 
for in the end).

Tapestry just fits perfectly into this mentality.

I guess there are coders who always jump on the new hype train. They buy the 
new hyped out hammer that’s just a little bit more shiny than the previous one. 
Everything looks to them like nails in the end. And then there are engineers 
who choose the right tools for the job without prejudices.

I want to thank the current Tapestry core team for their work.

Best,
Rafael


> On 2018-27-11, at 05:16 AM, Christopher Dodunski 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I only started with Tapestry, seriously, around 18 months ago.  Tapestry
> may not be the latest fashion, but I love its convention over
> configuration approach, use of POJOs, and the myriad other elegant
> features that keep web application development fun and rewarding.
> 
> I guess technical elegance and fun never goes out of fashion, huh?  :-)
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
> 


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org